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General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
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Message started by whiteknight on Feb 26th, 2020 at 6:46pm

Title: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by whiteknight on Feb 26th, 2020 at 6:46pm
Underemployment in Australia is on the rise and it may only get worse, experts say

ABC News
Feb 26 2020


Desiree Sheets-Chavolla works as a cleaner at Sydney Airport.

She currently does an average of 26 hours a week but would like to work more.

"I'm constantly having to ask for extra work," she told 7.30.

    "They've created like a shark tank for us — we have to fight for any overtime."

Ms Sheets-Chavolla is not alone. Exclusive market research for 7.30 shows almost 1.2 million people were underemployed last year and the problem is only predicted to get worse.
Women, the young and hospitality and retail staff most likely to be underemployed

Michele Levine says part-time jobs are growing at a faster rate than full-time work. (ABC News)

Roy Morgan Research analysed 15 years of research and found the number of underemployed people had jumped almost 450,000 since 2005.   :(

The research is based on thousands of face-to-face interviews conducted across the country each month.

CEO Michele Levine said an increasing number of workers were frustrated about being trapped in part-time work.   :(

"Essentially what they're saying is they've got a part-time job, but they would really like to be working more hours," she told 7.30.

"Part-time jobs are growing at a faster rate than full-time jobs. And clearly, when you have part-time jobs, you have a lot of those people would prefer to have more work, they'd prefer to have a full-time job."

According to the Roy Morgan research, 8.7 per cent of the workforce is underemployed, slightly higher than the Australian Bureau of Statistics' (ABS) official figure of 8.5 per cent.

And you are more likely to be underemployed if you are a woman, a worker in your teens or 20s, or you work in three industries where part-time work is common.

The recreation and personal sector, which includes hospitality and fitness workers, is the industry with the highest underemployment, at 20 per cent, followed closely by retail with over 19 per cent underemployment, and community services, which includes teachers and carers, at 10.5 per cent.
'You're always waiting for the next payday'

Despite working two jobs, Desiree Sheets-Chavolla is still struggling. (ABC News)

For Ms Sheets-Chavolla, the lack of work makes it difficult to make ends meet.

"I struggle to pay my bills, I struggle to pay my mortgage," she said.

That means she puts off fixing essentials like her broken hot water heater which is leaking water.

Despite a 50-kilometre commute to the airport for shifts as short as four hours, Ms Sheets-Chavolla has taken on a second cleaning job but says it isn't enough to fill the financial shortfall.

"It doesn't come easy because you're always robbing from Peter to pay Paul and you're always waiting for that next payday and its very stressful," she said.

Roy Morgan's Ms Levine said the economy would benefit from people having extra work if they wanted it.

"We're under-utilising the potential of our people to be doing meaningful work," she said.

"That in itself is a bad thing, that holds the economy back.

    "If more people were actually working and working as many hours as they wanted to, they'd have more money to spend, and that of course, feeds the economy."

The ABS uses a strict definition to calculate its unemployment and underemployment statistics so that it can compare Australia's results with that of other countries.

A person is counted as being employed if they work one hour a week.
$50 for a three-hour shift — 'It's just not enough'


Ndonde Fikiri enjoys her part-time in retail but she wants to work more.

Her shifts can be as short as three hours.

"A three-hour shift, that's like barely $50," she told 7.30.

"Sometimes it takes about $6 to go and come back from work. It's just not enough."

She has been going door-to-door to retail outlets, handing out her resume in a search for more work.

She's not having much luck.

"Only one of the retailers accepted my resume," she said.

"[The search] continues."   :(


Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by Bam on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:41pm
Why do plumbers get to charge a $100 call out charge just for turning up while casual employees get nothing? They should get 1 hour's pay just for being called in.

Why do casual employees not get any pay for being available?

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by rhino on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm

whiteknight wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 6:46pm:
Underemployment in Australia is on the rise and it may only get worse, experts say

ABC News
Feb 26 2020


Desiree Sheets-Chavolla works as a cleaner at Sydney Airport.

She currently does an average of 26 hours a week but would like to work more.

"I'm constantly having to ask for extra work," she told 7.30.

    "They've created like a shark tank for us — we have to fight for any overtime."

Ms Sheets-Chavolla is not alone. Exclusive market research for 7.30 shows almost 1.2 million people were underemployed last year and the problem is only predicted to get worse.
Women, the young and hospitality and retail staff most likely to be underemployed

Michele Levine says part-time jobs are growing at a faster rate than full-time work. (ABC News)

Roy Morgan Research analysed 15 years of research and found the number of underemployed people had jumped almost 450,000 since 2005.   :(

The research is based on thousands of face-to-face interviews conducted across the country each month.

CEO Michele Levine said an increasing number of workers were frustrated about being trapped in part-time work.   :(

"Essentially what they're saying is they've got a part-time job, but they would really like to be working more hours," she told 7.30.

"Part-time jobs are growing at a faster rate than full-time jobs. And clearly, when you have part-time jobs, you have a lot of those people would prefer to have more work, they'd prefer to have a full-time job."

According to the Roy Morgan research, 8.7 per cent of the workforce is underemployed, slightly higher than the Australian Bureau of Statistics' (ABS) official figure of 8.5 per cent.

And you are more likely to be underemployed if you are a woman, a worker in your teens or 20s, or you work in three industries where part-time work is common.

The recreation and personal sector, which includes hospitality and fitness workers, is the industry with the highest underemployment, at 20 per cent, followed closely by retail with over 19 per cent underemployment, and community services, which includes teachers and carers, at 10.5 per cent.
'You're always waiting for the next payday'

Despite working two jobs, Desiree Sheets-Chavolla is still struggling. (ABC News)

For Ms Sheets-Chavolla, the lack of work makes it difficult to make ends meet.

"I struggle to pay my bills, I struggle to pay my mortgage," she said.

That means she puts off fixing essentials like her broken hot water heater which is leaking water.

Despite a 50-kilometre commute to the airport for shifts as short as four hours, Ms Sheets-Chavolla has taken on a second cleaning job but says it isn't enough to fill the financial shortfall.

"It doesn't come easy because you're always robbing from Peter to pay Paul and you're always waiting for that next payday and its very stressful," she said.

Roy Morgan's Ms Levine said the economy would benefit from people having extra work if they wanted it.

"We're under-utilising the potential of our people to be doing meaningful work," she said.

"That in itself is a bad thing, that holds the economy back.

    "If more people were actually working and working as many hours as they wanted to, they'd have more money to spend, and that of course, feeds the economy."

The ABS uses a strict definition to calculate its unemployment and underemployment statistics so that it can compare Australia's results with that of other countries.

A person is counted as being employed if they work one hour a week.
$50 for a three-hour shift — 'It's just not enough'


Ndonde Fikiri enjoys her part-time in retail but she wants to work more.

Her shifts can be as short as three hours.

"A three-hour shift, that's like barely $50," she told 7.30.

"Sometimes it takes about $6 to go and come back from work. It's just not enough."

She has been going door-to-door to retail outlets, handing out her resume in a search for more work.

She's not having much luck.

"Only one of the retailers accepted my resume," she said.

"[The search] continues."   :(
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by crocodile on Feb 27th, 2020 at 7:22am

Bam wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:41pm:
Why do plumbers get to charge a $100 call out charge just for turning up while casual employees get nothing? They should get 1 hour's pay just for being called in.

Why do casual employees not get any pay for being available?


Supply and demand
Do plumbers get paid for being available

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by philperth2010 on Feb 27th, 2020 at 7:27am
It has been this way for decades under all Governments???

:-? :-? :-?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/19/counting-one-hours-work-a-week-doesnt-skew-the-employment-data

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by Bam on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by Bam on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:05am

crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 7:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:41pm:
Why do plumbers get to charge a $100 call out charge just for turning up while casual employees get nothing? They should get 1 hour's pay just for being called in.

Why do casual employees not get any pay for being available?


Supply and demand
Do plumbers get paid for being available

Lawyers do. Have you heard of "retainers"? No, obviously not.

Why the fkk should anyone be expected to structure their entire lives around the possibility of being called into work, for FREE? If they're expected to be available, they should be paid for that. 10% of the hourly rate would be fair. That could be paid for with an adjustment to the casual loading. It would stop flagrant abuses like someone being expected to be available 24/7 without compensation. Yes, those jobs do exist.

What would fix the problem though is bringing back real full employment. Make workers harder to get and companies would value them more.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by rhino on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:42am

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am:

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.
Minimum conditions of employment do not legally allow anything less than a 3 hour shift.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:45am

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am:

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.
Minimum conditions of employment do not legally allow anything less than a 3 hour shift.


Some Modern Awards allow a minimum 2 hour shift.


Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by rhino on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:51am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:45am:

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am:

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.
Minimum conditions of employment do not legally allow anything less than a 3 hour shift.


Some Modern Awards allow a minimum 2 hour shift.
Which awards? Just one will do.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:54am

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:51am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:45am:

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am:

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.
Minimum conditions of employment do not legally allow anything less than a 3 hour shift.


Some Modern Awards allow a minimum 2 hour shift.
Which awards? Just one will do.


Banking, Finance, and Insurance Award 2010.

http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000019#P217_15385

Clause 11.3


Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by rhino on Feb 27th, 2020 at 10:00am
thats a sh!t award. Still not 1 hour though.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 27th, 2020 at 10:02am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:54am:

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:51am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:45am:

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am:

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.
Minimum conditions of employment do not legally allow anything less than a 3 hour shift.


Some Modern Awards allow a minimum 2 hour shift.
Which awards? Just one will do.


Banking, Finance, and Insurance Award 2010.

http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000019#P217_15385

Clause 11.3


There are also Modern Awards that have no minimum.

e.g. Aged Care Award 2010.

http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000018#P243_20305

Clause 10.4

(a) A casual employee is an employee engaged as such on an hourly basis,other than as a part-time,full-time or fixed term employee,to work up to and including 38 ordinary hours per week.

(b) A casual employee will be paid per hour worked at the rate of 1/38th of the weekly rate appropriate to the employee’s classification. In addition,a loading of 25% of that rate will be paid instead of the paid leave entitlements accrued by full-time employees.


There were 34 Modern Awards just like this, which had no minimum shift length for casuals.

In 2017 there was a recommendation to have them all include a minimum 2 hour shift for casuals, but that obviously hasn't been done yet.

So yes, 1 hour shifts are still legally permitted for some casuals under the Modern Award system.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by juliar on Feb 27th, 2020 at 10:07am
Greggy would not work in an iron lung!!!!!!

Greggy are you Aboriginal ?

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 27th, 2020 at 10:10am

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 10:00am:
thats a sh!t award. Still not 1 hour though.


Commercial Sales Award 2010 - 2 hour minimum.

http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000083#P230_20316

Cotton Ginning Award 2020 - 2 hour minimum.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/modern_awards/award/ma000024/default.htm

Aged Care Award - no minimum (effectively allowing 1 hour shifts).


Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 27th, 2020 at 10:29am

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:51am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:45am:

rhino wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 8:58am:

rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 10:47pm:
Well thats BS. Minimum casual adult rate is around $22 an hour as far as I am aware. 3 hours would be $66 not $50. And 1 hour shifts dont exist so thats BS too.


Someone has forgotten to tell you that PAYE income tax exists. $50 after tax is plausible. If so, they may get a refund at tax time.

As for the 1-hour shifts not existing, you're making that up. It is true that the ABS sets 1 hour as the threshold for "employment". Whether 1-hour shifts actually exist is irrelevant.
Minimum conditions of employment do not legally allow anything less than a 3 hour shift.


Some Modern Awards allow a minimum 2 hour shift.
Which awards? Just one will do.


Modern awards which provide for casual employment and currently contain either no daily minimum engagement period for casual employees, or a minimum of 2 hours:

1. Airport Employees Award 2010 [MA000049]
2. Aquaculture Industry Award 2010 [MA000114]
3. Architects Award 2010 [MA000079]
4. Banking, Finance and Insurance Award 2010 [MA000019]
5. Business Equipment Award 2010 [MA000021]
6. Cleaning Services Award 2010 [MA000022]
7. Commercial Sales Award 2010 [MA000083]
8. Corrections and Detention (Private Sector) Award 2010 [MA000110]
9. Cotton Ginning Award 2010 [MA000024]
10. Educational Services (Teachers) Award 2010 [MA000077]
11. Electrical, Electronic and Communications Contracting Award 2010 [MA000025]
12. Gas Industry Award 2010 [MA000061]
13. Higher Education Industry—Academic Staff—Award 2010 [MA000006]
14. Horticulture Award 2010 [MA000028]
15. Local Government Industry Award 2010 [MA000112]
16. Mannequins and Models Award 2010 [MA000117]
17. Marine Towage Award 2010 [MA000050]
18. Market and Social Research Award 2010 [MA000030]
19. Medical Practitioners Award 2010 [MA000031]
20. Mining Industry Award 2010 [MA000011]
21. Miscellaneous Award 2010 [MA000104]
22. Pharmaceutical Industry Award 2010 [MA000069]
23. Port Authorities Award 2010 [MA000051]
24. Professional Employees Award 2010 [MA000065]
25. Rail Industry Award 2010 [MA000015]
26. Security Services Industry Award 2010 [MA000016]
27. Silviculture Award 2010 [MA000040]
28. Sporting Organisations Award 2010 [MA000082]
29. Surveying Award 2010 [MA000066]
30. Telecommunications Services Award 2010 [MA000041]
31. Transport (Cash in Transit) Award 2010 [MA000042]
32. Vehicle Manufacturing, Repair, Services and Retail Award 2010 [MA000089]
33. Water Industry Award 2010 [MA000113]
34. Wool Storage, Sampling and Testing Award 2010 [MA000044]

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by juliar on Feb 27th, 2020 at 11:31am
Greggy should know that nobody believes a word he posts because they know he is not all there and makes it up as he goes.

Title: Re: Counted As Employed If They Work One Hour A Week
Post by crocodile on Feb 27th, 2020 at 12:16pm

Bam wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 9:05am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2020 at 7:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:41pm:
Why do plumbers get to charge a $100 call out charge just for turning up while casual employees get nothing? They should get 1 hour's pay just for being called in.

Why do casual employees not get any pay for being available?


Supply and demand
Do plumbers get paid for being available

Lawyers do. Have you heard of "retainers"? No, obviously not.

Don't be such a twat. Of course of heard of it and paid it. The Customer is not obliged to pay it. They can choose to go elsewhere. Anybody is free to ask for a retainer. It's up to the payer of the service whether he chooses to.

Why the fkk should anyone be expected to structure their entire lives around the possibility of being called into work, for FREE? If they're expected to be available, they should be paid for that. 10% of the hourly rate would be fair. That could be paid for with an adjustment to the casual loading. It would stop flagrant abuses like someone being expected to be available 24/7 without compensation. Yes, those jobs do exist.

What would fix the problem though is bringing back real full employment. Make workers harder to get and companies would value them more.


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