Australia's Hottest Day on Record 1828 at 53.9 °C.

°F     °C             °F           °C
0       -18            105         41
10     -12            110         43
20     -7              115         46
30     -1              120         43
40     4               125         52
50     10             130         54
60     16
70     21
80     27
90     32
100   38

14th JANUARY 1896


Quote:

The Death Roll. A Melancholy List. Apoplexy, Thirst, and Sunstroke. SYDNEY, Tuesday. William Clark, aged 51, proprietor of the Royal Hotel, Singleton, died yesterday of heat apoplexy. Arthur Hassett, a director of the White Reef Company, Wyalong, was attending a meeting inside the com- pany's office, when he was stricken.His condition is critical.   John McCarker, 26, of Jerilderie, seized with heat apoplexy, has expired. Six infants have died at Goulburn since January 1 through the excessive heat. A child sent to the mountains to escape the city heat died at the moment that the train arrived. The coroner at Collarendabri has returned to the town after holding an inquest on the body of a man which was found in the bush at Burren. The verdict was that deceased (whose name is supposed to be George Schweiss) had cut his throat, having apparently become insane through the heat and want of water. A little girl has died at Mount Hope as an effect of the heat. Two more deaths have occurred at Bourke. One, Mrs. Costello, aged eighty, was found dead in her chair. This makes at least a dozen victims in the Bourke district. There were many casualties in the city. A man at Surry Hills sustained a sunstroke. He was taken to the hospital, where he recovered. A young girl walking along a city street suddenly became demented. Sydney Merewether, aged 63, a miner from New Zealand, was trans-acting some business in the Union Bank, when he was stricken down. He was at once removed to the hos- pital, but expired. William Foulston, employed at the post-office tunnel works, was taken to the hospital unconscious through the excessive heat, and died. James Quinn was working at the embankment at Lady Macquarie's Chair, when he was overcome, and very soon died. Several men were taken to the hospitals and, under proper treatment, recovered. Duggle McLachlan, a widower with four children, residing at Balmain, was returning to his home from the city, when he was stricken. Before medical help could be obtained he was dead. A man, his wife, and their child went out in a boat at Balmain, hoping to escape some of the heat. They were caught in the buster and the boat was capsized. The child was drowned. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44132389?zoom

17th JAN 1896


Quote:

THE WEATHER IN NEW SOUTH WALES. THE TERRIBLE HEAT. HEAVY MORTALITY IN TOWN AND COUNTRY. THE DEVASTATION AMONG STOCK. SYDNEY, January 14. The cool change which set in last night continued to-day, but warning is again given by the Government Astronomer that a further high temperature must be expected, at an early date. The southerly wind does not appear to have reached very far inland, as the westerly and north-western districts still report intense heat. In the southern district of the colony, however, it is showery and cool. The mortality caused by the heat has been extremely great, both in the city and the country, especially at Goulburn, where the deaths of 12 children, directly traceable to that cause, have taken place. At Parkes, Wm. Sulley, wheelwright, and R. Copp, one of the late tributors at the Bushman's United mine, died yesterday from sunstroke, after a two hours' illness. John Andrews, the owner of Berember, at Narrandera, has succumbed to illness accentuated by the heat. At Bourke, to-day, the thermometer registered 120 degrees in the shade, which the highest record since 1886. Two more deaths are reported there as the result of the hot weather. In the suburbs, apart from the children who have succumbed, Michael Keane, of Pyrmont ; Dugald McLachlan, of Balmain; and Thomas Nangle, of Enmore; are reported as having died from heat apoplexy. Further accounts from the country give pitiful stories of the devastation among stock, caused by the want of feed from the prolonged drought. Bush fires are also burning in various parts. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/33121679?zoom

18th JAN 1896


Quote:

(FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT)EXTRAORDINARY HEAT AT WILCANNIA. THERMOMETER 119° IN THE SHADE. FIVE DEATHS IN ONE DAY THE HOSPITAL CROWDED. WILCANNIA, Friday. The heat has been umbearable to-day. The thermometer registered 119 in the shade at 2 o'clock. Five deaths from heat have occurred since last night, the Rev. Father Davern being amongst the number. He intended to leave for Sydney yesterday, but complained of being unwell owing to the excessive heat. Last night Dr. Atkins was called in, and found the reverend gentleman unconscious. He expired at 2 o'clock this morning from heat apoplexy. He has been here for the past five years, and was universally esteemed by all sections of the community. The hospital is crowded, and a number of people are dangerously ill. More deaths are hourly expected. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14033576?zoo

20th JAN 1896


Quote:

INTENSE HEAT AT BOURKE THREE MORE DEATHS AND FURTHER SUNSTROKES. BOURKE, Saturday. There is no cessation in the great heat, in fact it is increasing, the thermometer registering 120 to-day. Three more deaths were recorded to-day, directly caused by the sun. The town was startled to-night by a report of the death of Mrs. Sproule, a well-known identity here. Her       husband, who died about two years ago, arrived nearly 40 years ago. A labourer named George Holt, employed at Nulga Valley, died last night, aged between 70 and 80 years. Matthew Harvey, who received a sunstroke at Yanda, died in a buggy which was bringing him for medical assist-ance. Two more cases of sunstroke occurred to- day, and the victims are in a critical condition.  From the appearance of the sky to-morrow will be hotter than to-day. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14033806?zoo

22nd JAN 1896


Quote:

THE GREAT HEAT IN NEW SOUTH WALES. NO CHANGE YET. MORE DEATHS REPORTED. RESIDENTS OF BOURKE PANIC- STRICKEN. SYDNEY, TUESDAY. The light rain which has fallen during the past three days on the coast has penetrated inland across the mountains, with the result that only six places to-day report heat over 100deg., as compared with 63, which sent inthat record yesterday. The hope that the mon-soonal depression which developed yesterday over Western Australia would bring rain has now gone, and there is not the slightest prospect of a general rain to relieve the dis-tressed settlers in the back country. In the south-east parts of the colony there has been a considerable fall in the barometer while the variations of the barometer inland seem to indicate the possibility of thunderstorms. a high-pressure depression is coming across the continent from Western Australia and the hope is expressed that it may bring some rain and cool weather. Single deaths from heat apoplexy are re-ported from Angledool, Moree, Condobolin Crookwell and Young. BOURKE, TUESDAY. The heat to-day was very trying, the thermometer registering 118deg. in the shade. Two more deaths were reported to-day. Mr.R. Rheuben, a resident of Bourke and a wool-classer, died suddenly from heat apoplexy on Saturday at Boorara, near Hungerford, and Kenneth Stewart, a local identity, dropped down in the street last night and never regained consciousness, dying at the hospital shortly after being ad-mitted. This brings the record to 35 deaths directly ascribable to the heat. The average heat in the shade for the month to date isover 112deg., while for the past four days the average has been 118¾deg. A large number of residents left by train this morning, and the cheap excursion trains which leave to-morrow will be largely availed of. LATER. The residents are really panic-stricken and hundreds are leaving for cooler cli-mates. CONDOBOLIN, SATURDAY. The extreme heat continues unbroken, thefollowing being the reading for the past four days :—15th, 106deg.; 16th, 110deg.; 17th, 118deg.; 18th, 107deg., accompanied on most days by furious hot winds from north-west and north. Tanks all over the district are drying up daily, and stock-owners are having an anxious time. A large number of horses, sheep, and cattle have been re-moved to districts that have had rains. Mr. Robert Officer, the manager of North Con-dobolin Station, has been brought into town from the station suffering from the intense heat. The doctor reports that he is progress-ing favourably. GOODOOGA, TUESDAY. The hot weather still continues, and there is no sign of rain. An old man named Larry Keogh, who has been working on Mogila for years, was found dead in his hut yesterday morning, death being due to heat apoplexy. WILCANNIA, TUESDAY. Eight deaths have so far occurred locally from the heat. Several persons were struck down yesterday and to-day, but they are pro-gressing as well as can be expected. The glass registered 117 in the shade yesterday and 118 to-day. There is no prospect of a change. Three deaths are reported from White Cliffs, and one each from Gnalta, Wonnaminta, and Tongo, all due to the heat. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8888573?zoom

22nd JAN 1896


Quote:

THE HEAT WAVE. CONTINUED HIGH TEMPERATURE 120 DEATHS. RESIDENTS FLEEING TO THE HILLS. (By Telegraph.) SYDNEY, Sunday. The temperature of Sydney was cool to-day, but the inland districts report phenomenal heat. There have been a large number of additional deaths, and within the last fortnight over 120 deaths are directly attributable to the heat. At Condobolin the thermometer regis-tered 118 degrees in the shade, and wa-ter is so scarce the selectors are carting supplies for stock for miles. Nine deaths occurred at Nyngan. One of the deceased, Henry Walton, drew a prize of £1400 in the last Melbourne Cup sweep. There are several other cases of sunstroke from which there is no hope of recovery. The residents are so much alarmed, that many are leaving for the high lands. Two dangerous cases of sunstroke are reported at Taree, and one at Bel-lingen. At Grenfell the wind is said to be like a blast from a furnace. Singleton, Bathurst, Grafton, and St. Mary's also record extreme heat for the past three weeks. At Coonamble the maximum tempera-ture has been over 100 deg. in the shade each day for three weeks. Telegrams from Cootamundra to-day state the body of John Gordon, who has been an engineer for roads for many years, was found yesterday in a dry creek near Temora. Deceased left Cootamundra early last week on an official trip, but previously express-ed a fear that he would meet his death during the journey. He actually re-turned to town on Wednesday, owing to the dread that oppressed him, but on the following morning, however, he de-parted again. It is supposed he was the victim of the terrible heat which prevailed for the past week. The Government Astronomer states the conditions of the Interior of the co-lony has prevented any moisture fall-ing from the monsoonal depression,consequently the hoped for down pour has passed away. The southerly winds which are now blowing ought, however, to bring about a lowering of the temper-ature over the whole colony. Three more deaths, caused by heat, are reported from Wilcannia, three from Bourke, two from Blayney, and one from Hillgrove. SYDNEY, Monday. The Commissioner of Railways pro-mised a deputation of members of Par-liament to run a special train everyFriday at holiday excursion rates forthe next month to enable settlers resi-dent in the Western part of the colony to reach the mountains to escape the great heat prevailing. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79288908?zoo

23rd JAN 1896


Quote:

THE WEATHER IN THE EASTERN COLONIES. SHADE TEMPERATURE AT BOURKE 120°. MORE DEATHS REPORTED. Sydney, January 22. A welcome fall of rain occurred to-day over the central coastal district and highlands, accom-panied by a great lowering of the tempera-ture all over the colony except in the far west. Bourke to-day reports the heat as having been 120° in the shade. Two more deaths have occurred in the town, with five in the immediate vicinity. Broken Hill, January 22. A south wind brought a temporary cool change last night. The heat to-day was intense, the maximum temperature registered in the shade being 113.5°. Jane Thomson, aged fifty-six, of Crystal-street, died from heat apoplexy to-day. Brisbane, January 22. The weather was exceedingly hot and op-pressive to-day, the temperature being thehighest recorded for the summer. High tem-peratures prevail throughout the colony. Roma reports that all the crops are withering,and Thargomindah states that five more suddendeaths have occurred in the district, which are attributed to the heat. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/53682260?zoo

23rd JAN 1896


Quote:

Thunderstorms and High Tem-peratures. Alarming Sickness in Many Towns. SYDNEY, Thursday. Most depressing reports come from the country districts. A Cudal correspondent reports that thunderstorms travel over that district daily. A little rain falls, but the weather continues hot and sultry. A cyclone has passed over Greta. Several buildings were de- molished, trees were uprooted, and then rain fell in torrents, descending like at the bursting of a waterspout. Serious damage has been done to the crops in that district. Yesterday at Albury the shade record was 104. The condition of Brewarrina is hardly better than that of Bourke. Yesterday's record was 117. On Wed-nesday night many of the residents walked the streets for hours, the ther-mometer at midnight registered 109, and the minimum reading was 103. Sickness is alarmingly prevalent. Bingara was yesterday visited by a terrific thunderstorm. Typhoid is prevalent in this district. Burraga yesterday registered 100 ; Cobar, 119, with two deaths registered. Goulburn, 104, with five deaths ; Graf-ton, 100 ; Gundagai, 108 ; Harden,103; Moree, 109 ; Tamworth, 101. Wagga, 110 ; West Wyalong, 114 ;Young, 108. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44159099?zoo

24th JAN 1896


Quote:

THE HEAT IN NEW SOUTH WALES. AN UNPRECEDENTED RECORD. Telegrams from Sydney and more complete details in the Sydney papers furnish amazing and distressing ac-counts of the terrible effects of the re-cent heat wave in New South Wales. A Bourke telegram dated Tuesday reports—" The heat to-day was very trying, the thermometer registering 118deg. in the shade. Two more deaths were reported today. This brings the record to 35 deaths directly ascribed to the heat. The average heat in the shade for the month to date is over 112deg., while for the past four days the average has been 118¾deg. The residents are really panic-stricken, and hundreds are leav-ing for cooler climates. On Wednes-day afternoon a terrific wind blew several verandahs down, as well as half a dozen ornamental trees in the streets. The thermometer registered 120deg., and in many shops and houses the temperature reached 125 deg. Almost all business was practi-cally suspended except in the hotels. Two more deaths occurred in the town. A powder magazine exploded and for five minutes afterwards rain fell. At Condobolin the extreme heat continued unbroken, the following being the readings for the past four days:—15th, 106deg. ; 16th, 110deg.; 17th, 118deg. ; 18th, 107deg. At Wilcannia eight deaths have so far occurred locally from the heat. Three deaths are reported from WhiteCliffs, and one each from Gnalta, Wonnaminta and Tongo, all due to the heat; a total altogether of 15 deaths in the Wilcannia district from heat since Thursday last. At Tiboburra 119 was reached, and the death of W. Hodge, a well known miner, is reported. Nine deaths have been recorded at Nyngan. At Coonamble the ther-mometer has registered 110deg. in theshade. The thermometer has not re-gistered less than 100 deg. since two or three days before New Year. At Warren the thermometer, in well-shaded situations, registered from 114deg to 119deg, while on many of the neighboring stations 110 deg. were recorded. Twenty cases of heatapoplexy were reported. In several localities the thermome-ter has registered 105 at midnight. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75263800

And yet there were no major WILD FIRES as the land back then was still benefiting from the effects of Aboriginal Land Care Management.

If any fires did erupt - the local Aboriginal Brigade had them under control and saved the Whities.

Jasin wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 8:13am:

And yet there were no major WILD FIRES as the land back then was still benefiting from the effects of Aboriginal Land Care Management. If any fires did erupt - the local Aboriginal Brigade had them under control and saved the Whities.

Strange aint it how sometimes half or a third of the state gets high winds and rain while the rest gets nothing.

Who knows what effects these weather modification programmes are having on the Earth.

Is it weather modification locally....???

OR

Maybe Globally

Creating rain in one part of the world creates fire storms in another.

These TWITS for scientists don't know the ramifications but they find it interesting that they can somehow play with our weather and climate in the long run not to mention our atmosphere.

I say lets string them up the nearest tree.

Not sure Ajax.

But I do know that back in the 1800's - the Australian Forest and Bushlands were 80% more than they are today and yet suffered nothing like what we see has happened today.

I blame inferior Whities who only know about Politics and not much else.  ;)

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 21^st, 2019 at 10:06am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 11:13am: It is false for the BOM and their activist friends to say the current heat wave is a record or unprecedented... Quote: And you thought it was hot now? How a 24-DAY heatwave on Australia's east coast in January 1896 saw temperatures climb to 49 degrees and killed 437 people The extreme weather event was described as feeling 'like a furnace' and recorded much higher temperatures than the east coast is set to swelter through this week. It was a hot start to 1896 and by January 14, newspapers were reporting people were dying from a range of complications brought on by the extreme temperatures. By the third week of the year, 12 infants had died from heat-related illnesses in Goulburn, NSW, alone, a report on JoNova about the heatwave revealed. People were fleeing the cities on trains to seek refuge in the mountainous regions of the country, and one child escaping the heat 'died at the moment the train arrived'. Hospitals were at breaking point, and the death toll was rising. No Mechanic as usual, you, the daily mail and Jo Nova are wrong. Methods of recording temperature were not standardised until the early 1900s. A Stevenson screen was not installed in Bourke until August 1908 The Bureau of Meteorology noted in a 2017 report the 1896 data "cannot be easily compared with modern recordings". "Detailed study has shown that extreme temperatures recorded at Bourke during the 1896 heatwave were likely suspect due to non-standard exposure, and likely around two degrees warmer than temperatures recorded with standard instrumentation." And the death toll of 437 people? There was no airconditioning, poorer medical knowledge about dehydration, and heat stroke, no OHS laws and poorer forecasting.

You don't have a very long memory Ajax
This was debunked when Mechanic brought it up a few months ago
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1576717984/15

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 10:31am:

A Stevenson screen was not installed in Bourke until August 1908

What type of screen was installed petal? Was it out hanging in the sun? On a shady porch perhaps where it could get the breeze?

"It is likely the thermometers at Bourke were kept in a lattice round house or a Glaisher stand or some other type of enclosure. According to the scientific literature, these installations could result in the recording of temperatures up to 1 degree Celsius warmer during summer. So why not just subtract up to 1 degree from all summer temperatures for Bourke prior to August 1908?

Furthermore, the Bureau is not consistent on this issue. While claiming that temperatures not recorded in a Stevenson screen are unreliable and not able to be incorporated into the official Australian temperature record, they then discard and change records for Bourke after the installation of a Stevenson Screen.

The record high temperature of 51.7 degree C recorded on 3rd January 1909, after the installation of the Stevenson Screen, has been expunged from the official record on the basis it must be an observational or clerical error. That is the reasoning given in a 1997 study by Blair Trewin, who now works for the Bureau. He came to this determination after comparing temperatures at Bourke with temperatures as far away as Thargomindah (454km) and Coonamble (364km), all the while ignoring temperatures at nearby Brewarrina (97km), which also set records on that day."

https://jennifermarohasy.com/2014/03/fiddling-temperatures-for-bourke-part-1-hot-days/

in comments -

"It’s even worse than you think. This is for Bourke, Jan 1939. Just check the difference between the raw data and ACORN adjustments. Every raw temp over 30C has been reduced by up to 0.9C and any under 30C have been increased (by only 0.1C).
This has reduced the overall mean by almost 0.4C and reduced the 40C+ heatwave from 17 straight to 11.
Jan raw ACORN
1st 38.9 38.4
2nd 40 39.1
3rd 42.2 41.9
4th 38.1 37.9
5th 38.9 38.4
6th 41.7 41.5
7th 41.7 41.5
8th 43.4 43
9th 46.1 45.7
10th 48.3 47.9
11th 47.2 46.8
12th 46.2 45.8
13th 45.7 45.3
14th 46.1 45.7
15th 47.2 46.8
16th 46.7 46.3
17th 40 39.1
18th 40.1 39.1
19th 40 39.1
20th 41.9 41.7
21st 42.5 42.1
22nd 44.2 43.8
23rd 36.7 36.5
24th 40.3 39.2
25th 36.6 36.5
26th 29.4 29.5
27th 29.3 29.4
28th 28.8 28.9
29th 30.6 30.5
30th 35.6 35.4
31st 38.6 38.3
Highest daily 48.3 47.9
Lowest daily 28.8 28.9
Monthly mean 40.4 40.03
Every temp adjusted despite a SS in place."

I guess it must have been all that UHI and they had to lower the temps. ;)

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 11:37am:

"It is likely the thermometers at Bourke were kept in a lattice round house or a Glaisher stand or some other type of enclosure. According to the scientific literature, these installations could result in the recording of temperatures up to 1 degree Celsius warmer during summer. So why not just subtract up to 1 degree from all summer temperatures for Bourke prior to August 1908?

So in other words they don't know. That's why you can't just arbitrarily deduct 1 degree.
Can you imagine the outrage from the deniers if the BOM did simply deduct 1 or 2 degrees from the raw temperatures. whatsupwiththat would have a coronary  ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote:

University of Melbourne climate researcher Linden Ashcroft said thermometers in Bourke were likely placed in sub-standard conditions in 1896. "Some thermometers were under verandahs, or they were against stone buildings," she said. "So sometimes the thermometer would get exposure to the sun, and that doesn't mean that you're capturing the temperature of the ambient air, you're capturing the temperature of what it would feel like standing in the sun. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-21/1896-heatwave-killed-435-climate-scientists-cant-compare-today/11809998

That is why the records pre 1910 cant be relied upon

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:02pm:

So in other words they don't know. That's why you can't just arbitrarily deduct 1 degree. Can you imagine the outrage from the deniers if the BOM did simply deduct 1 or 2 degrees from the raw temperatures.

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 11:37am:

"It’s even worse than you think. This is for Bourke, Jan 1939. Just check the difference between the raw data and ACORN adjustments. Every raw temp over 30C has been reduced by up to 0.9C and any under 30C have been increased (by only 0.1C).

Why not? What difference would 0.1C make they already make adjustments of at least 0.9C. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:02pm:

whatsupwiththat would have a coronary

You can't even reference right. ;D ;D ;D ;D

BTW - Bourke 3 January 1909 does not appear in Bourke's hottest temperature at Bourke Post Office. It is listed as 1903 at 49.7C so that is an adjustment of over 2C. Bizarre innit? ;)

So now that you have been shown to be wrong you merely create another diversion.  ;D you really are a piece of work lee

Have you got anything more to say about January 1896 which, after all, is the title of this thread?

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:

So now that you have been shown to be wrong you merely create another diversion.

Where have I been shown to be wrong petal? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:

Have you got anything more to say about January 1896 which, after all, is the title of this thread?

So sad for you. You were the one changed the time forward. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:02pm:

Quote: University of Melbourne climate researcher Linden Ashcroft said thermometers in Bourke were likely placed in sub-standard conditions in 1896. " Some thermometers were under verandahs, or they were against stone buildings," she said. "So sometimes the thermometer would get exposure to the sun, and that doesn't mean that you're capturing the temperature of the ambient air, you're capturing the temperature of what it would feel like standing in the sun. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-21/1896-heatwave-killed-435-climate-scientis...

So how many thermometers did they have at the Post Office in Bourke? ;D ;D ;D ;D

BTW - from your reference -

"The Bureau of Meteorology noted in a 2017 report the 1896 data "cannot be easily compared with modern recordings".

"Detailed study has shown that extreme temperatures recorded at Bourke during the 1896 heatwave were likely suspect due to non-standard exposure, and likely around two degrees warmer than temperatures recorded with standard instrumentation."

Strange that almost exactly the minimum change of the 1909 data after the Stevenson Screen was installed. ;)

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:33pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2nd, 2020 at 12:02pm: Quote: University of Melbourne climate researcher Linden Ashcroft said thermometers in Bourke were likely placed in sub-standard conditions in 1896. " Some thermometers were under verandahs, or they were against stone buildings," she said. "So sometimes the thermometer would get exposure to the sun, and that doesn't mean that you're capturing the temperature of the ambient air, you're capturing the temperature of what it would feel like standing in the sun. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-21/1896-heatwave-killed-435-climate-scientis... So how many thermometers did they have at the Post Office in Bourke? ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - from your reference - "The Bureau of Meteorology noted in a 2017 report the 1896 data "cannot be easily compared with modern recordings". "Detailed study has shown that extreme temperatures recorded at Bourke during the 1896 heatwave were likely suspect due to non-standard exposure, and likely around two degrees warmer than temperatures recorded with standard instrumentation." Strange that almost exactly the minimum change of the 1909 data after the Stevenson Screen was installed. ;)

Of course I am not a scientist.

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 12:33pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 2nd, 2020 at 12:02pm: Quote: University of Melbourne climate researcher Linden Ashcroft said thermometers in Bourke were likely placed in sub-standard conditions in 1896. " Some thermometers were under verandahs, or they were against stone buildings," she said. "So sometimes the thermometer would get exposure to the sun, and that doesn't mean that you're capturing the temperature of the ambient air, you're capturing the temperature of what it would feel like standing in the sun. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-21/1896-heatwave-killed-435-climate-scientis... So how many thermometers did they have at the Post Office in Bourke? ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - from your reference - "The Bureau of Meteorology noted in a 2017 report the 1896 data "cannot be easily compared with modern recordings". "Detailed study has shown that extreme temperatures recorded at Bourke during the 1896 heatwave were likely suspect due to non-standard exposure, and likely around two degrees warmer than temperatures recorded with standard instrumentation." Strange that almost exactly the minimum change of the 1909 data after the Stevenson Screen was installed. ;)

So once again you are making vague insinuations against the Bureau of Meteorology, implying without ever accusing. Typically spineless of you.

So once and for all actually state your position on something
The Bureau of Meteorology are professionals. They know what they are talking about. You are nothing but a lame keyboard warrior.
Are you claiming that the BOM are wrong? If so take it up with them (I'm sure they would love to hear from you  ;D  )
Or are you claiming that the BOM are being deliberately fraudulent?

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 2:33pm:

So once again you are making vague insinuations against the Bureau of Meteorology, implying without ever accusing.

What do you mean vague? The only vague thing is you.

Don't you remember my post where I said data should not be changed? Did you think that was just a zephyr passing by?

Remember what I wrote about UHI and how they would somehow have to warm the past rather than cooling it to make today's figures more comparable. And said at the end they shouldn't even do that?

BoM adjusted the 3 January 1909 temperatures by over 2C, if it had been 2C it would have tied with 1903. That is fact.


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 2:33pm:

The Bureau of Meteorology are professionals. They know what they are talking about.

And those "professionals" adjust the data. Some due to station moves without dual recording at both places, some due to change of instrumentation and a lot for "statistical reasons".

Data should not be changed for station moves, adds or changes. The data just is. But you still haven't got back to us why data should be changed for "statistical reasons". Why is that petal?


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 2:33pm:

Are you claiming that the BOM are wrong?

Yes petal.


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 2:33pm:

If so take it up with them (I'm sure they would love to hear from you  Grin  )

Yeah, they don't respond very well to criticism. ;)


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 2:33pm:

Or are you claiming that the BOM are being deliberately fraudulent?

I will leave that up to you to decide petal. One you you may understand what is data and what isn't data. (Hint: adjusted data ain't data).

lee wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 5:34pm:

I will leave that up to you to decide petal. One you you may understand what is data and what isn't data. (Hint: adjusted data ain't data).

Once again evading the question
So you complain that they didn't simply adjust the 1896 Broken Hill data but then you complain when they do homogenise other data. You are moving the goal posts as usual.
Come on lee, it can't be too hard to answer a simple question.

Are you claiming that the Bureau of Meteorology are wrong?
Are you claiming that they are committing fraud?

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 10:21am:

Once again evading the question So you complain that they didn't simply adjust the 1896 Broken Hill data but then you complain when they do homogenise other data. You are moving the goal posts as usual. Come on lee, it can't be too hard to answer a simple question. Are you claiming that the Bureau of Meteorology are wrong?

Poor petal. You rally have a comprehension issue.

What part of -


lee wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 5:34pm:

What do you mean vague? The only vague thing is you. Don't you remember my post where I said data should not be changed? Did you think that was just a zephyr passing by? Remember what I wrote about UHI and how they would somehow have to warm the past rather than cooling it to make today's figures more comparable. And said at the end they shouldn't even do that?

didn't you understand?


The fact is they are wrong.


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 10:21am:

Are you claiming that they are committing fraud?

That is the part that I said you should decide for yourself.

Data should not be changed. After it is changed it is not data.

Changing the data as in the ACORN series of adjustments is a no-no. You can't years later go back and say "this was the temperature that day".

Remember what that assessment of the BoM homogenisation was?

"The Forum noted that the extent to which the development of the ACORN-SAT dataset from the raw data could be automated was likely to be limited, and that the process might better be described as a supervised process in which the roles of metadata and other information required some level of expertise and operator intervention. The Forum investigated the nature of the operator intervention required and the bases on which such decisions are made and concluded that very detailed instructions from the Bureau are likely to be necessary for an end-user who wishes to reproduce the ACORN-SAT findings. Some such details are provided in Centre
for Australian Weather and Climate Research (CAWCR) technical reports (e.g. use of 40 best-correlated sites for adjustments, thresholds for adjustment, and so on); however, the Forum concluded that it is likely to remain the case that several choices within the adjustment process remain a matter of expert judgment and appropriate disciplinary knowledge."

2015 TAF report.

So if we use human "expertise" the adjustments can't be replicated. if the results can't be replicated it is not science.

Poor petal completely lacking in maths skills and comprehension at the very least.

But really do tell us why temperatures from years ago should be adjusted for "statistical reasons"?

One of the questions to which you always fail to respond.

lee wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 1:03pm:

The fact is they are wrong.

So lee the keyboard warrior sits at home and is telling us the Bureau of Meteorology is wrong.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Don't you think that given the incredible scrutiny they are under from the conservative side of politics and the conservative media that they would be very careful about what they publish?

If they are so categorically wrong then why don't you tell them? You've spent hours and hours telling a few old codgers on this forum that the BOM are wrong, why don't you spend a fraction of that time going to the source and pointing out to them why they are wrong.  ;D ;D ;D

Given the nonsense that you post on this forum you know that the BOM would laugh you out of their office. That's why you will never take it up with them.


lee wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 1:03pm:

But really do tell us why temperatures from years ago should be adjusted for "statistical reasons"? One of the questions to which you always fail to respond.

I've responded multiple times as to why homogenisation is required. Do you really expect trees, buildings, locations around a weather station to not change in 100 years  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 3:18pm:

So lee the keyboard warrior sits at home and is telling us the Bureau of Meteorology is wrong.

As do many others petal.


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 3:18pm:

I've responded multiple times as to why homogenisation is required. Do you really expect trees, buildings, locations around a weather station to not change in 100 years

poor petal. Lost in his little dream world. So do you adjust up or own for tree changes? How about buildings up or down? Locations around a weather station up or down.

Don't forget UHI that should put temperatures up. You know tarmac roads v gravel roads.


How does one make those types of adjustments statistically? Statistics can never tell you on a specific day x years ago the temperature was really cooler/warmer by y degrees.

It would seem logic is not a part of your repertoire

So tell us why the bulk of the adjustments are down.

Edit :"Appeal to Authority

argumentum ad verecundiam"

"Example #1:

Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and perhaps the foremost expert in the field, says that evolution is true. Therefore, it's true.

Explanation: Richard Dawkins certainly knows about evolution, and he can confidently tell us that it is true, but that doesn't make it true. What makes it true is the preponderance of evidence for the theory."

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/21/Appeal-to-Authority

There is no preponderance of evidence that homogenisation of temperatures is in fact  -True.

And why did you ignore this -

"So if we use human "expertise" the adjustments can't be replicated. if the results can't be replicated it is not science."

They are supposed to be doing scientific work aren't they?

lee wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 4:33pm:

Edit :"Appeal to Authority argumentum ad verecundiam"

No you have got that wrong.
My argument isn't an "appeal to authority" it is an "appeal to expertise"


Quote:

easy ways to avoid committing appeal to authority: make sure that the authorities you cite are experts on the subject you're discussing.

Now last time I checked, Bureau of Meteorology, CSIRO, NASA, Met Office and countless other scientific organisations are experts in their field. Certainly more of an expert than you are.

So if you are so sure you are right why don't you stop wasting our time here, p1ss off and start explaining to NASA why they are wrong.

good luck with that

FYI lee

An appeal to authority fallacy would be if i was to say "Global Warming is a Hoax because Donald Trump said so"

Clearly Donald Trump is not an expert in the field, he is merely an authority figure.

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 8:18am:

FYI lee An appeal to authority fallacy would be if i was to say "Global Warming is a Hoax because Donald Trump said so" Clearly Donald Trump is not an expert in the field, he is merely an authority figure.

What if it was Professor Zharkova?

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 7:55am:

My argument isn't an "appeal to authority" it is an "appeal to expertise"

An "appeal to authority" is also known as an "appeal to expertise". I would have thougtht that you would have known that.

"An expert opinion, or an appeal to authority is often used for the basis of an argument: if someone says “x” is true, and that someone is an expert, then “x” must be true (Doos, n.d .). In other words, the arguer argues that he is right because he has the opinion of an expert."

http://ds-wordpress.haverford.edu/psych2015/projects/chapter/expert-opinionappeal-to-authority/

In my other link it also inter alia called upon the expertise.


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 7:55am:

Now last time I checked, Bureau of Meteorology, CSIRO, NASA, Met Office and countless other scientific organisations are experts in their field.

You haven't shown that. Merely parroted something. ;)


The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 5^th, 2020 at 7:55am:

So if you are so sure you are right why don't you stop wasting our time here, p1ss off and start explaining to NASA why they are wrong.

Oh dear jumped ship from BoM to NASA. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

NASA still lists Cook et al 2013  as saying 97% of scientists agree with AGW. It didn't.

QED

BTW- you have once again shown your lack of comprehension. you have argued, somewhat weakly, that BoM need to homogenise temperatures generally, with which I disagee. But I asked a specific question to whit what reason is there for BoM to adjust temperatures for "staistical" reasons? And that is the one you have studiously avoided. ;)