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Member Run Boards >> Environment >> You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1559847276 Message started by whiteknight on Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:54am |
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Title: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by whiteknight on Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:54am
Al Gore slams Adani, tells Queensland 'good luck' in selling coal to India
June 5, 2019 Sydney Morning Herald Former US vice president Al Gore has taken a swipe at Adani during a climate change conference in Brisbane, casting doubt on the proposed Carmichael mine's viability as India moves away from coal-fired power. :) The Indian company hopes to export thermal coal to India once the mine goes through its final approval processes. Mr Gore, who in his post-political life has become one of the world's most influential climate change activists, received a loud cheer when he told delegates at the Climate Reality Project conference that India was dramatically shifting away from coal as an energy source. "This is what is happening in India," Mr Gore said as he punched through a nearly two-hour slide and video show supporting his view that world economies needed to rapidly shift away from fossil fuels to keep keep atmospheric warming as low as possible. "This is what they have under construction right now in India for solar; 225 gigawatts. They are not going to continue with coal. :) "You want to sell coal to India? Good luck with that." Adani Mining plans to extract up to 20,000 million tonnes of thermal coal per annum from the Carmichael mine and export it to Adani-owned coal-fired power stations in India. Mr Gore said the statistics showed India was rapidly shifting towards solar and wind energy and not investing in coal. :) Financial institutions worldwide were increasingly reluctant to back new coal projects, he said. "That is one of the reasons why not a single global financial institution, after doing the financial analysis, would put any money up for the Adani mine, not a single cent," Mr Gore said. "May I just say. This is nuts. But I doubt [Adani] is ever going to happen anyway." In March 2019, coal produced 56.4 per cent of India's energy, with hydro plants producing 15 per cent and solar and wind about 18 per cent. "India is now getting bids for electricity produced from solar that is one-quarter lower than electricity from coal," Mr Gore said. Forbes magazine made a similar observation last year, reporting how the cost of renewable energy in India had decreased by 50 per cent over the 2016-18 period. Mr Gore said he could not understand why the coal in the Galilee Basin was being considered when some coal reserves in India had higher "inherent energy" output levels than the Queensland coal. He said Indian financial experts were pointing to the increasing investment in renewable energy in India and the decline in new coal investment in India. "I am trying to tread carefully here, but what do they know that some people in other countries don't seem to know?" Mr Gore said. Adani Mining Australia as recently as last week said its Carmichael Coal Mine project was more than viable and they were ready to provide $2 billion to construct the mine and the railway to connect the mine to the existing Aurizon rail line which runs to Abbot Point port near Mackay. Mr Gore, who advocates against fossil fuels in favour of expanding renewable energy such from wind and solar sources, said Australia should be concentrating on expanding its renewable energy framework and coupling that to new battery systems. "This is the future, we are getting away from these dirty fossil fuels," he said, praising the recent push into electric vehicles in Australia and New Zealand. He said Queenslanders were passionate supporters of solar rooftop systems. "On a global basis we get as much energy from the sun in one hour as the entire global economy uses in a full year," he said. "Since Australia has the best solar resource of any nation in the world, you would only have to capture 0.1 per cent of the solar energy that god makes available to you in order to meet 100 per cent of your energy needs. "If we can increase the fraction that we can profitably harness and use then we can stop using the atmosphere as an open sewer." Mr Gore drew a loud laugh when he told how Kentucky's famous coal museum has recently installed solar panels. His presentation was punchy and updated with lots of recent Australian, Queensland and Brisbane observations. He noted the Sydney Opera House "an iconic Australian symbol" had on World Environment Day vowed to generate all its electricity from renewable energy sources. He appreciated both Queensland and New South Wales governments committing to having zero net emissions by 2050. However, he saved his closing remarks for the expanding battery sector which he said would allow renewable energy to be stored and used in large scale energy systems "when the sun didn't shine and the wind isn't blowing". "The technologists and engineers and scientists have given us much cheaper batteries," he said. :) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:24am
He is right and I can see adani as a big stranded asset soon, with a lot of our money stranded with it... :)
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by lee on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:03pm
Al Gore the author of "The Inconvenient Truth" which turned out to be so many Inconvenient Mistruths. ;D ;D ;D
And just gays after Britain's last remaining steel manufacturer closed because of high electricity costs. That steel manufacturing has to go somewhere. And it won't be to Europe. |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by lee on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:06pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:24am:
Not only can you foresee the future but tell us where we'll lose money? Quick invest it where it will be safe. Renewables maybe? ;) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by The Mechanic on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:24pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:24am:
Absolute Garbage.... ::) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by The Mechanic on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:26pm Quote:
Who on earth would pay this crook to listen to his propaganda? Oh wait... ::) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by Captain Nemo on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:30pm
Hee hee ... like "Selling snow to the Eskimos". ?
Oh, wait ... that could become a real business opportunity. ;) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:42pm lee wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
most big investment firms wont loan money for coal projects... I'm just agreeing with them. How many power companies have gone broke from changing to renewables ;) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by The Mechanic on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:45pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:42pm:
Take away the subsidies on windymills etc and the TAX off coal and see how long renewables last.. Like ... 5 minutes ::) Why do you think I our energy prices keep going up you dunce... ::) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:59pm President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:26pm:
This is what he said whiteknight wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:54am:
Ummm if you got up to date figure like gore used and not years old one you will see he is right :) https://powermin.nic.in/en/content/power-sector-glance-all-india 1.Total Installed Capacity (As on 28.02.2019) - Source : Central Electricity Authority (CEA) Coal MW 1,91,093 54.6% RES* (MNRE) MW74,082 21.2% he was wrong though Solar and Wind is about 21% not 18% like he said .coal percentage is even less than he said so he undersold that too....... now where did you get this rubbish about him saying 65% of renewables in India the report quotes him at 33% (15% hydro 18% solar/wind) Now those are inconvenient truths.... if coal was 75% in 2017 and in 2019 is only 55% then i think Australia should look hard if we want Adani mine here... Good Spot there Mechanic on how fast coal power is disappearing in India... ;) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:02pm President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:45pm:
Take all the Tax benefits and allowences off of Fossil fuel exploration, gathering and use and see how long they last :D :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:16pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
As Mechanic has shown us, India's use of coal generation has dropped 20% in 2 years from 75.9% to 54.6% , if that trend keeps going India will be coal free in just over 5 years.... It's fine Adani wants to build that mine, but with numbers like that I don't think our Government (and intimately us) should pay a cent to help them.... ;) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by The Mechanic on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:27pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
Gore cherry picked one month ::) ... and where is that figure he picked and/or made up??? No evidence ::) Read your own links - conventional power is still increasing year in and year out.. More conventional generation = more coal Dur... ::) |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:50pm President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:27pm:
Nope wrong again those are the latest figures from the Indian Government and not cherry picked.... Conventional Energy is usually just Thermal ,It is weird though because they include hydro and Nuke as conventional... The electricity generation target of conventional sources for the year 2018-19 was fixed at 1265 BU comprising of 1091.500 BU thermal; 130.000 BU hydro; 38.500 nuclear; and 5.000 BU import from Bhutan. Gore is using the official Government numbers, where I think you got you info from Wikki…. :D |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by lee on Jun 7th, 2019 at 2:02pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
Note the asterisk. "* Installed capacity in respect of RES (MNRE) as on 31.01.2019." So out of that installed capacity take out the capacity factor. That is the amount of electricity generated. Solar - " The estimated capacity factor varies from 16 to 20% in various parts of the country." http://www.cercind.gov.in/2011/Whats-New/PERFORMANCE%20OF%20SOLAR%20POWER%20PLANTS.pdf Wind - "However the plant load factor (PLF) in wind power generation is very low, often in the single digits. " http://ethesis.nitrkl.ac.in/1732/1/thesis-d2.pdf |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by SerialBrain9 on Jun 7th, 2019 at 2:27pm
I’m just wondering if Al Gore forgot to mention that feb/march is India’s lowest months for coal consumption? :-/
Yearly trends show increasing coal consumption by India https://indiapowerreview.com/indian-coal-production-dispatch-stocks-consumption-may-2019-update/ 42B6221A-D2D6-43C2-B287-17F05BF6615E.png (51 KB | 13
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by SerialBrain9 on Jun 7th, 2019 at 2:28pm
Indias monthly coal consumption.
Same link as above post. FF6268D7-E1EC-4E21-B2ED-F7A2DFAA4A6F.png (62 KB | 21
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by SerialBrain9 on Jun 7th, 2019 at 2:29pm
Indias coal stocks continue to grow.
3AA15CF6-2EE5-4F9D-B4C4-223BA74B4656.png (186 KB | 12
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by SerialBrain9 on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:52pm
Hello?
Where did everybody go? :-/ |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 8th, 2019 at 8:34am SerialBrain9 wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 2:27pm:
More intriguing is the recent plateauing of coal consumption when expressed as a 12-month moving average. How long will this persist? Preliminary generation data for May and early June suggests that a modest increase in thermal coal use may soon resume, but the longer-term trend is both difficult to predict and potentially very revealing about India’s power trajectory. so since the bigining of the year, coal use has plateaud even gone down a bit and the artical you got this from and they are not painting a rosy future for coal use.... Renewable use is increasing faster than coal, yes coal us hasn't declined yet, but it slowing down and and with India's 2030 plan it's not looking good for this industry... C7.png (51 KB | 12
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 8th, 2019 at 8:48am
In 2015 Coal India set a one billion ton production target for the current financial year, and with a year to go it was 397 MT short of that target. When the inevitable was finally acknowledged late last year, this goal was postponed to 2026. What do historical trends tell us about this revised goal?
Coal India would need to surpass its very large production increase of last year to meet it, as a sustained 40 MT annual increase would not see the goal reached before 2029. If, on the other hand, CIL continues its average rate of increase for the last five years, then it will be 2036 before the company mines a billion tons. History may not be much of a guide, though, given that so much energy and climate policy will be unfolding long before 2026, let alone 2029 or 2036. From the same page all these nice pictures are from..... Coal use has Platauded and coal power use has levelled out as well and coal production is still increasing from India itself and thair goal is to produce one billion ton production target and still short 397 MT . ;) It looks like india are on top of thair coal use and supply, with supply increasing and demand staying the same... Also renewables is increasing very fast and now surpasing new energy mix over thermal.. Why will the country want to buy coal from Australia ???? G2-1.png (134 KB | 30
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by SerialBrain9 on Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:17am
Thank you for a sensible post Don.
I think India will still be increasing its base energy with coal as it grows - India are putting out Tenders here in Australia for workers to go over there to help them build as there is so much growth going on. I think renewables has a place in every country on earth. This would massively bring the cost down for everyone. I believe renewables at this stage is best at ground level - In/On the home. Lithium Batteries (and/or similar style) are still far too dear for the home consumer. Tesla should have brought out a new Power Wall 3 by now but they haven’t. That tells me that the Power Wall (off grid) industry has stalled. |
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Title: Re: You Want To Sell Coal To India,Good Luck With That Post by DonDeeHippy on Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:32am SerialBrain9 wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:17am:
India slowed growth on new coal generation and it having to get rid of old coal generation will start to have a negative effect on overall output. Renewable generation of new capasity is already taken over thermal, be interesting to see when thermal starts to go down. Tesla have been so busy with their car's they haven't spent much energy on their home battery systems and reported on their last quarterly report they just cant spare the batteries, and not filling orders. Tesla has promiced to start suppling batteries for them for the rest of the year, i wouldnt hold my breath though. Maybe look to other companies for breaking new ground with them.... ;) I1.png (106 KB | 13
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