Quote:

Electric vehicles emit more CO2 than diesel ones, German study shows Electric vehicles in Germany account for more CO2 emissions than diesel ones, according to a study by German scientists. When CO2 emissions linked to the production of batteries and the German energy mix - in which coal still plays an important role - are taken into consideration, electric vehicles emit 11% to 28% more than their diesel counterparts, according to the study, presented on Wednesday at the Ifo Institute in Munich. Mining and processing the lithium, cobalt and manganese used for batteries consume a great deal of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery, for example, represents between 11 and 15 tonnes of CO2. Given a lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometres, this translates into 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometre, scientists Christoph Buchal, Hans-Dieter Karl and Hans-Werner Sinn noted in their study. The CO2 given off to produce the electricity that powers such vehicles also needs to be factored in, they say. When all these factors are considered, each Tesla emits 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometre, which is more than a comparable diesel vehicle produced by the German company Mercedes, for example. The German researchers therefore take issue with the fact that European officials view electric vehicles as zero-emission ones. They note further that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per km by 2030 corresponds to a “technically unrealistic” consumption of 2.2 litres of diesel or 2.6 litres of gas per 100 kms. These new limits pressure German and other European car manufacturers into switching massively to electric vehicles whereas, the researchers feel, it would have been preferable to opt for methane engines, “whose emissions are one-third less than those of diesel motors.” Oscar Schneider The Brussels Times http://www.brusselstimes.com/business/technology/15050/electric-vehicles-emit-more-co2-than-diesel-ones,-german-study-shows?fbclid=IwAR0ysBiZi2FurE8ZwePKMtYxwkRUOqffVMChqut_fO95zOBf4k1YQjL-UF0

Wrong again darlings:

https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1120327764543004672?s=19

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4wyxsTW0AAfOun.jpg

Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 1:29pm:

Wrong again darlings:

Twitter eh, is that where Twits like you get your information?

;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Easy solution then. Renewables. Done

https://electrek.co/2019/04/22/study-electric-cars-dirtier-diesel-debunked/


Seems as though there were some flaws, in qwhich recycling of the battery wasn't taken into account, plus as well not taking into account all the energy used to produce, store and move the diesel.


Additionally, even the study talks about the facts behind Germanys energy mix being largely coal.

They are also making many other mistakes, like using the flawed NEDC driving cycle, which is being phased out. They assume unrealistically optimistic numbers for diesel emissions, and unrealistically pessimistic numbers for electricity emissions.
One of the biggest mistakes they are making is that they are comparing the full production and lifecycle of an electric vehicle, including the emission from the electricity uses, against the production and lifecycle of a diesel car without accounting for all the energy used to produce the diesel and supply it to the cars.

This isn’t the first time this has happened.  Many years ago a “study” was released claiming that a ~50mpg Prius was more polluting than a ~9mpg Hummer H2.  That study relied on one of the same tricks as this one – it estimated that the Hummer would last 300,000+ miles, whereas the Prius would last a fraction of that.  There were many other issues with the study, of course.
And let’s not forget the German auto industry’s recent experience with under-reporting diesel emissions, which resulted in thousands of deaths and billions in fines.


This study has already received widespread criticism in Norway with several factual errors scewing the results in a large way towards Diesel.
Among the bigger errors in the study are the following:
– Electric batteries in EVs have a considerable longer lifecycle than 10 years. None of the battery makers today have a 150.000km/10 year limit on their batteries. In addition the batteries can be reused for other purposes (e.g. powerwalls) after.
– Diesel consumption for the Mercedes C220D uses the old NEDC standard and not the newer more correct WLTP standard. Average consumption for the Mercedes C220D is about 42% higher based on consumer reports from Spritmonitor.de.

It's not just that. The German grid was at 523g per kWh in 2016, in 2018 its estimated at 486g per kWh. That's 486/523= 7% lower in 2 years or about 3.5% per year. Assuming this continues, the grid will be at about 392g per kWh in 2025 when EVs really become more of a real element in transportation. That's 392 * 0.162 = 63.6g of CO2 per km for a Model 3 type vehicle in terms of efficiency. I can't imagine that diesel can beat this even if car production is more energy intensive for EVs. Also, there was a study that was mentioned elsewhere which concluded that EVs result in at least 3% improvement to similar diesel cars even with 2016 German grid values.

the biggest problems with this study is that it doesn't break down how they arrived at either of the vehicle's C02 consumption, until we can get numbers it's a useless report :)

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 2:04pm:

The German grid was at 523g per kWh in 2016, in 2018 its estimated at 486g per kWh. That's 486/523= 7% lower in 2 years or about 3.5% per year. Assuming this continues, the grid will be at about 392g per kWh in 2025 when EVs really become more of a real element in transportation.

"Franco-German alliance splinters over climate policy
Paris is leading a group of ambitious countries in Brussels as Germany gets cold feet.

By      KALINA OROSCHAKOFF AND PAOLA TAMMA      3/22/19, 12:35 PM CET Updated 4/19/19, 1:09 AM CET
The revamped Franco-German alliance is fracturing thanks to the countries’ differing approaches to climate policy.

The rift between Paris and Berlin was evident ahead of a summit of EU leaders on Thursday and Friday where the bloc's long-term climate strategy is on the agenda, according to unpublished documents reviewed by POLITICO.

Climate policy is dividing countries, with some “vehemently opposed” to having any meaningful discussion on the topic at the summit, according to an EU diplomat.

France is spearheading a group of countries that want the EU to cut emissions to net zero by 2050 — meaning the bloc would absorb as much greenhouse gases as it emits. That’s seen as crucial in reaching the more ambitious goal of the 2015 Paris Agreement, which aims to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees.

But Germany, long at the forefront of pushing greener policies, is now getting cold feet thanks to the economic and political costs."

https://www.politico.eu/article/franco-german-alliance-splinters-over-climate-policy/

Of course they do as most of these unsafe piles of junk are spewing out pollution as they are recharged at Super Chargers being supplied by coal power stations.

The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station.

Trust juliar to change the subject as they become more desperate

BH I sympathize with your inability to grasp tech stuff.

But the TOPIC is about the huge pollution being caused by all electric cars as they load up the coal power stations.

juliar wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:02pm:

BH I sympathize with your inability to grasp tech stuff. But the TOPIC is about the huge pollution being caused by all electric cars as they load up the coal power stations.

Yep, my multiple qualifications in science probably say different. I mean lets face it I don't have your ability in cutting and pasting from pop sci mags.


Juliar changing the subject in desperation again.

notice It's the same people that say C02 put in atmosphere from man made activities doesn't hurt the Climate are the same ones that use it to try and put down Renewable Energies.... :D

juliar wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 2:53pm:

Of course they do as most of these unsafe piles of junk are spewing out pollution as they are recharged at Super Chargers being supplied by coal power stations. The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station.

Every Joule of energy from a Tesla super charger is backed up by the same amount of energy from a renewable energy source. Can't say the same about oil can you socko ? :D LOL

juliar wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:02pm:

BH I sympathize with your inability to grasp tech stuff. But the TOPIC is about the huge pollution being caused by all electric cars as they load up the coal power stations.

And you are such an expert on copying and pasting from bullshit right wing websites run by Luddites :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 10:06am:

And you are such an expert on copying and pasting from bullshit right wing websites run by Luddites

And yet you don't have an EV. According to you that makes YOU a Luddite. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 12:13pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 24th, 2019 at 10:06am: And you are such an expert on copying and pasting from bullshit right wing websites run by Luddites And yet you don't have an EV. According to you that makes YOU a Luddite. ;)

no it doesn't idiot. look at the definition of Luddite or better still stand in front of a mirror :D LOL

The silly fool Tweedledumb is neurotically projecting herself again as a brainless drongo.

Typical Greeny bungs on a HATE session as soon as someone shows her up as a dumb drongo.

Tweedledumb why don't you display your sock collection you keep in your room at the mental hospital these days ?


A major problem is occurring around the world as these all electric heaps are creating massive pollution by overloading the coal power stations.

The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station.

Coal station exhaust is worse than the diesel truck exhaust and the all electric heaps are really pumping the coal power station exhausts something fierce.

But the salvation is just around the corner which will make the all electric piles of junk obsolete - HYDROGEN!!!!

Wind and solar is negligible as it is SO SMALL < 10%. There is simply not enough clear treeless land to build enough solar and wind farms as they require a vast area.

BH why do you know and understand SO LITTLE about tech stuff when you "claim" to have all those qualifications ?

It is OBVIOUS that tech and engineering stuff is NOT your forte.

If you said you were a lawyer or a polly I would believe you as avoiding the question is normal there.

I think the big question here is if you live in a big city...
Would you rather be in a city with a Million Electric Vehicles
Or would you be Happy with a Million Cars around you Burning Fossil Fuels and Breathing the Exhaust.
I know which one id rather be in, especially on a hot still day :)

Just like the all electric heaps are causing the emission of massive amounts of pollution by overloading the coal power stations the intellectually handicapped Tweedledee is causing the emission of massive amounts of childish uninformed bulldust by overloading her weakened by Global Warming feeble mind.

But what she craves for - a nice unsafe Tesla crash.

https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX139/7581e761-2a3a-4cba-9b58-cc4e7c6a3ed5.JPG
Unsafe Tesla S breathes its last pollution.

It is now well established that all electric cars are filthy emitters of massive pollution as a result of overloading the coal power stations.

What repulsive smelly piles of junk!!

Hydrogen will render these filthy pollution spewing abortions obsolete overnite.

Watch the miniscule all electric sales plunge when the subsidies are removed and road tax applied.




DRIVING A TESLA RESULTS IN MORE CO2 THAN A MERCEDES DIESEL CAR, STUDY FINDS
Michael Bastasch | Energy Editor 9:08 AM 04/24/2019

https://i.postimg.cc/FFkz0S4S/tesla-Capture.png
Teslas run on filthy pollution emitting coal!!!!

A Tesla Model 3 is touted as a zero-emissions car by government regulators, but it actually results in more carbon dioxide than a comparable diesel-powered car, according to a recent study.

When the CO2 emissions from battery production is included, electric cars, like Teslas, are “in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads a release from the German think tank IFO.

“It’s better read as a warning that new technologies aren’t a climate-change panacea. Recall the false promises about corn and cellulosic ethanol,” The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote of the study. (RELATED: 2020 Democrats Back Plan That’s Already Raising Electricity Prices)

Driving a Tesla Model 3 in Germany, for example, is responsible for 156 to 181 grams of CO2 per kilometer, compared to just 141 grams per kilometer for a diesel-powered Mercedes C220d — that includes emissions from producing diesel fuel.

IFO looked at electric car production in Germany, which is heavily reliant on coal power. Electric car emissions in other countries depend on their energy mix, but Germany is the world’s third-largest electric car maker.

https://i.postimg.cc/BZmpPdJb/tesla-Capture.png
A Tesla Model 3 car is displayed at the Canadian International AutoShow in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, February 15, 2019. REUTERS/Chris Helgren.

China and the U.S. are the first- and second-largest electric car producers, respectively. China gets 65 percent of its electricity from coal power and the U.S. relies on coal for 27 percent of its electric power.

China is also the top battery-producing country, using coal power to produce batteries for electric vehicles that are then subsidized for being “zero” emissions.

California, for example, requires automakers to cut greenhouse gas emissions in cars by producing lower emissions vehicles or buying credits from companies, like Tesla, that make electric vehicles. At the federal level, the U.S. gives tax breaks of up to $7,500 per electric vehicle.

Federal subsidies for Teslas are set to be phased out since the company, founded by Elon Musk, hit the 200,000-vehicle production cap. However, Congress is debating whether or not to extend electric car subsidies.

It’s not just battery production, but charging vehicles that emit lots of CO2. Germany gets 35 percent of its electricity from coal-fired power plants, so charging a Tesla in, say, Bavaria results in 83 grams of CO2 per kilometer driven.

“Over the long term, hydrogen-methane technology offers a further advantage: it allows surplus wind and solar power generated during peaks to be stored, and these surpluses will see a sharp increase as the share of this renewable energy grows,” study co-author Christoph Buchal, professor of physics at the University of Cologne, said in a statement.

IFO isn’t the first research group to conclude electric cars might not reduce carbon dioxide emissions as promised.

A study released in 2018 also found driving electric cars might come with higher emissions than diesel vehicles, largely because of lithium-ion battery production.

Likewise, a Manhattan Institute study from 2018 also found putting more electric cars on the road would likely increase emissions compared to internal combustion engine vehicles.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/24/tesla-carbon-dioxide-mercedes/

juliar wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 5:11pm:

The silly fool Tweedledumb is neurotically projecting herself again as a brainless drongo. Typical Greeny bungs on a HATE session as soon as someone shows her up as a dumb drongo. Tweedledumb why don't you display your sock collection you keep in your room at the mental hospital these days ? A major problem is occurring around the world as these all electric heaps are creating massive pollution by overloading the coal power stations. The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station. Coal station exhaust is worse than the diesel truck exhaust and the all electric heaps are really pumping the coal power station exhausts something fierce. But the salvation is just around the corner which will make the all electric piles of junk obsolete - HYDROGEN!!!! Wind and solar is negligible as it is SO SMALL < 10%. There is simply not enough clear treeless land to build enough solar and wind farms as they require a vast area.

Why don't you compare the total well to wheels efficiency socko that's if you even understand the concept ;)

How much pollution created by extracting the crude, refining it, transporting it to the nearest port and then transporting it across the ocean using the moist inefficient and polluting deisel tankers, unloading it at port and then refining it again and then distributing it via polluting deisel trucks to all of the fool bowsers ??

Even using coal fired power EV's are still twice as efficient as fossil fool clunkers and when using renewables there is just no contest socko ;)

See if you can refute that dickhead !

The mental patient Tweedledumb is STILL refusing to show off her sock collection she keeps in her room at the mental hospital.

Tweedledumb don't be a spoil sport - I liked seeing you display your favorite socks.

Silly old Tweedledumb is just so stupid she cannot understand there are many other much larger vehicles other than the little toy gimmicky electric ones that are quite unsuitable for battery power and these will ultimately be powered by HYDROGEN which is vastly better than the dirty filthy coal the all electrics use spewing out great clouds of pollution from their exhausts at the coal power stations.

juliar wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 11:01pm:

The mental patient Tweedledumb is STILL refusing to show off her sock collection she keeps in her room at the mental hospital. Tweedledumb don't be a spoil sport - I liked seeing you display your favorite socks. Silly old Tweedledumb is just so stupid she cannot understand there are many other much larger vehicles other than the little toy gimmicky electric ones that are quite unsuitable for battery power and these will ultimately be powered by HYDROGEN which is vastly better than the dirty filthy coal the all electrics use spewing out great clouds of pollution from their exhausts at the coal power stations.

What is the well to wheels efficiency of a fossil fool car vs electric car vs hydrogen car ? Why don't you answer a seemingly obvious question you dunderhead :( HINT there is virtually no losses in the transmission of energy from the coal fired power station to the EV charging point which is something that neither hydrogen or fossil fool cars can ever compete with ;)

The mental patient Tweedledumb is STILL refusing to show off her sock collection she keeps in her room at the mental hospital.

Tweedledumb don't be a spoil sport - I liked seeing you display your favorite socks.

Now the silly fool is parroting Tesla Fan Girl rubbish to make herself look even sillier. For the unsafe dangerous Tesla heaps it is the mine to some bulldust because most Teslas are running on COAL.


Not surprising Tesla with its phony dangerous cars running on coal and absolutely SPEWING POLLUTION from the Coal Power Station exhaust now looks like it WILL NEVER EARN A PROFIT!!!!!!

https://i.postimg.cc/d1rSVfPn/tessy5.jpg
Is this how Tesla will end up ? 



Tesla’s Earnings Are Expected to Be Ugly
Esha Dey BloombergApril 25, 2019

(Bloomberg) -- The time has finally come for the market to find out just how ugly Tesla Inc.’s first quarter was.

Expectations for the period have been lowered sharply in recent weeks, especially after disappointing delivery numbers were announced earlier this month. That continued the lousy sentiment precipitated earlier in the year by Tesla cutting jobs and vehicle prices and warning of a “difficult” road ahead. What’s followed has been mounting concern that demand has topped out.

“First-quarter results have already been telegraphed as weak, and we expect investor focus to remain on cash and short-term deliveries,” Roth Capital Partners analyst Craig Irwin wrote in a note to clients on Tuesday. “We think guide needs to point to 85,000-plus second-quarter deliveries for investors to take a neutral view on guidance. If cash is below $2.5 billion, we think investors should be more anxious about a near-term capital raise.”

The question of whether Tesla needs to raise more money has been hanging over the company for a while now, with analysts maintaining that the carmaker needs to bolster its balance sheet. “Investors have increasingly asked about the need for an equity raise; we continue to think Tesla should return to capital markets to strengthen the balance sheet, despite management’s stated desire to avoid issuing new equity,” Baird analyst Ben Kallo wrote in a note.

Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk has said previously that he didn’t want or need to return to capital markets, though his tune seemed to change during Monday’s autonomous technology-related event. He hinted Tesla probably will need to raise money as it scales its fleet of vehicles he says will be capable of self-driving. Musk also said the company will introduce a robotaxi service of cars that won’t need humans at the wheel in 2020, a pronouncement that drew widespread doubts from Wall Street.

“Ultimately we think the event was a way for the company to focus investors away from the underlying demand and margin pressures the company is currently facing as they bring the Model 3 to mass market and as there has been waning Model S/X demand,” Goldman Sachs analyst David Tamberrino wrote.

With the “autonomous smokescreen” now cleared out of the way, clues about demand -- including a potential forecast for second-quarter deliveries -- and margin trends will be the two biggest items to watch out for when Tesla reports results after the market close on Wednesday.

Tesla shares dropped as much as 2.2 percent ahead of the numbers. The stock has 27 percent of the free float held short, according to financial analytics firm S3 Partners.

What Bloomberg Intelligence Says

“Tesla’s most important measure will be of sustainable demand levels, after the company released a surge of pent-up orders in third quarter and fourth quarter before the federal tax credit halved by $3,750 on Jan. 1.

Expectations for Tesla’s first-quarter earnings swung from a $217 million pretax profit at the close of 2018 to a $232 million loss after the company disclosed an 11 percent sequential production drop from fourth quarter, including a 40 percent decline in high-margin Model S and X builds.”

--Kevin Tynan, autos analystClick here to view the research

Just the numbers

1Q adjusted loss per share estimate $1.30 (range loss/share 64c to loss $2.60)1Q revenue estimate $4.84b ($4.40b-$5.12b) 1Q adj. automotive gross margin estimate +17.8% 1Q capital expenditure estimate $508.2m ($291m-$625m) 2Q adj. automotive gross margin estimate +19.5% 2Q capital expenditure estimate $551.4m ($250m-$650m)

Data

Tesla 13 buys, 8 holds, 15 sells; avg PT $303: Bloomberg data Implied 1-day share move following earnings: 9.2% Shares fell after 7 of prior 12 earningsAdjusted EPS beat estimates in 7 of past 12 quarters

Timing

Earnings April 24 after market close Call 5:30pm; conference call website

(Adds share move, adds short interest detail in paragraph seven.)

--With assistance from Dana Hull.

To contact the reporter on this story: Esha Dey in New York at edey@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Brad Olesen at bolesen3@bloomberg.net, Scott Schnipper

For more articles like this, please visit us at bloomberg.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-earnings-expected-ugly-100000931.html

juliar wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 8:05pm:

It is now well established that all electric cars are filthy emitters of massive pollution as a result of overloading the coal power stations. What repulsive smelly piles of junk!! Hydrogen will render these filthy pollution spewing abortions obsolete overnite. Watch the miniscule all electric sales plunge when the subsidies are removed and road tax applied. DRIVING A TESLA RESULTS IN MORE CO2 THAN A MERCEDES DIESEL CAR, STUDY FINDS Michael Bastasch | Energy Editor 9:08 AM 04/24/2019 https://i.postimg.cc/FFkz0S4S/tesla-Capture.png Teslas run on filthy pollution emitting coal!!!! A Tesla Model 3 is touted as a zero-emissions car by government regulators, but it actually results in more carbon dioxide than a comparable diesel-powered car, according to a recent study. When the CO2 emissions from battery production is included, electric cars, like Teslas, are “in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads a release from the German think tank IFO. “It’s better read as a warning that new technologies aren’t a climate-change panacea. Recall the false promises about corn and cellulosic ethanol,” The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote of the study. (RELATED: 2020 Democrats Back Plan That’s Already Raising Electricity Prices) Driving a Tesla Model 3 in Germany, for example, is responsible for 156 to 181 grams of CO2 per kilometer, compared to just 141 grams per kilometer for a diesel-powered Mercedes C220d — that includes emissions from producing diesel fuel. IFO looked at electric car production in Germany, which is heavily reliant on coal power. Electric car emissions in other countries depend on their energy mix, but Germany is the world’s third-largest electric car maker. https://i.postimg.cc/BZmpPdJb/tesla-Capture.png A Tesla Model 3 car is displayed at the Canadian International AutoShow in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, February 15, 2019. REUTERS/Chris Helgren. China and the U.S. are the first- and second-largest electric car producers, respectively. China gets 65 percent of its electricity from coal power and the U.S. relies on coal for 27 percent of its electric power. China is also the top battery-producing country, using coal power to produce batteries for electric vehicles that are then subsidized for being “zero” emissions. California, for example, requires automakers to cut greenhouse gas emissions in cars by producing lower emissions vehicles or buying credits from companies, like Tesla, that make electric vehicles. At the federal level, the U.S. gives tax breaks of up to $7,500 per electric vehicle. Federal subsidies for Teslas are set to be phased out since the company, founded by Elon Musk, hit the 200,000-vehicle production cap. However, Congress is debating whether or not to extend electric car subsidies. It’s not just battery production, but charging vehicles that emit lots of CO2. Germany gets 35 percent of its electricity from coal-fired power plants, so charging a Tesla in, say, Bavaria results in 83 grams of CO2 per kilometer driven. “Over the long term, hydrogen-methane technology offers a further advantage: it allows surplus wind and solar power generated during peaks to be stored, and these surpluses will see a sharp increase as the share of this renewable energy grows,” study co-author Christoph Buchal, professor of physics at the University of Cologne, said in a statement. IFO isn’t the first research group to conclude electric cars might not reduce carbon dioxide emissions as promised. A study released in 2018 also found driving electric cars might come with higher emissions than diesel vehicles, largely because of lithium-ion battery production. Likewise, a Manhattan Institute study from 2018 also found putting more electric cars on the road would likely increase emissions compared to internal combustion engine vehicles. https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/24/tesla-carbon-dioxide-mercedes/

so now jules believes a global warming and co2 being a factor, now he supports Rome  :D ;D ;D

Here we go again. socko can't answer the obvious question so starts posting car accidents again :D LOL

What is the well to wheels efficiency socko ?

I only have one question.....!!!

What will happen to all those batteries....???

Is it feasible to re-cycled at a profit.........???

Cause that will be the bottom line.

Ajax wrote on Apr 26^th, 2019 at 11:03am:

I only have one question.....!!! What will happen to all those batteries....??? Is it feasible to re-cycled at a profit.........??? Cause that will be the bottom line.

https://insideevs.com/news/343582/fortum-announces-over-80-electric-car-battery-recycling-rate/"A new solution by Nordic clean energy company Fortum makes over 80% of the electric vehicle (EV) battery recyclable, returns the scarce metals back into circulation and resolves the sustainability gap by reducing the need to mine cobalt, nickel, and other scarce metals."

"Fortum achieves the recycling rate of over 80% with a low-CO2 hydrometallurgical recycling process. The current recycling rate for batteries is approximately 50%. The batteries are first made safe for mechanical treatment, with plastics, aluminium and copper separated and directed to their own recycling processes.
Also the batteries will last at least 1500 full charges and realistically about 2000 full charges. with a EV with 400 km's of range that is 600,000km;s to 800,000 km's, when the car falls apart at about 200,000-300,000 km's im sure there will be a lot of these batteries put in old car "conversions"
;)

Why is it that dangerous unsafe all electric heaps spew more pollution from the coal power stations than normal practical vehicles and that Greeny Tesla Fan Girls spew more bulldust than normal people who are not intellectually handicapped ?

The simple FACT that the dangerous unsafe all electric cars are spewing dangerous amounts of pollution from the coal power station exhausts effectively signs their death warrant.

The ultimate new HYDROGEN energy that will make the dangerous unsafe pollution spewing all electric heaps obsolete overnite is just around the corner and is looking better as each day passes.

And HYDROGEN will replace diesel in large vehicles which are too large for any battery power.

And will TESLA eventually crash into a brick wall like this unsafe Tesla 3 did ?

https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX140/2e0e600b-b106-4de3-80cf-ecf44913a8cf.JPG
Screech CCRRAASSHHH!!!! If only those brakes worked.

juliar wrote on Apr 26^th, 2019 at 1:32pm:

Why is it that dangerous unsafe all electric heaps spew more pollution from the coal power stations than normal practical vehicles and that Greeny Tesla Fan Girls spew more bulldust than normal people who are not intellectually handicapped ? The simple FACT that the dangerous unsafe all electric cars are spewing dangerous amounts of pollution from the coal power station exhausts effectively signs their death warrant. The ultimate new HYDROGEN energy that will make the dangerous unsafe pollution spewing all electric heaps obsolete overnite is just around the corner and is looking better as each day passes. And HYDROGEN will replace diesel in large vehicles which are too large for any battery power. And will TESLA eventually crash into a brick wall like this unsafe Tesla 3 did ? https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX140/2e0e600b-b106-4de3-80cf-ecf44913a8cf.JPG Screech CCRRAASSHHH!!!! If only those brakes worked.

you do know that vehicle internal combustion motor are very inefficient, it takes 4 times the power to make hydrogen and pump it up to 10,000 psi to make it usable than to charge the same power into battery...…..

The silly fool Tweedledee just cannot help displaying the fact that she is intellectually handicapped. But then she IS a Greeny Tesla Fan Girl.

But what she is really asking for is another dangerous unsafe Tesla CRASH!!!


https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX133/5d139b72-2e7d-4ecf-a34e-a155a1379723.JPG
This Tesla Roadster will catch a cold with no coat on!!!!

DEBUNKED



Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 1:17pm:

Quote: Electric vehicles emit more CO2 than diesel ones, German study shows Electric vehicles in Germany account for more CO2 emissions than diesel ones, according to a study by German scientists. When CO2 emissions linked to the production of batteries and the German energy mix - in which coal still plays an important role - are taken into consideration, electric vehicles emit 11% to 28% more than their diesel counterparts, according to the study, presented on Wednesday at the Ifo Institute in Munich. Mining and processing the lithium, cobalt and manganese used for batteries consume a great deal of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery, for example, represents between 11 and 15 tonnes of CO2. Given a lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometres, this translates into 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometre, scientists Christoph Buchal, Hans-Dieter Karl and Hans-Werner Sinn noted in their study. The CO2 given off to produce the electricity that powers such vehicles also needs to be factored in, they say. When all these factors are considered, each Tesla emits 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometre, which is more than a comparable diesel vehicle produced by the German company Mercedes, for example. The German researchers therefore take issue with the fact that European officials view electric vehicles as zero-emission ones. They note further that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per km by 2030 corresponds to a “technically unrealistic” consumption of 2.2 litres of diesel or 2.6 litres of gas per 100 kms. These new limits pressure German and other European car manufacturers into switching massively to electric vehicles whereas, the researchers feel, it would have been preferable to opt for methane engines, “whose emissions are one-third less than those of diesel motors.” Oscar Schneider The Brussels Times http://www.brusselstimes.com/business/technology/15050/electric-vehicles-emit-more-co2-than-diesel-ones,-german-study-shows?fbclid=IwAR0ysBiZi2FurE8ZwePKMtYxwkRUOqffVMChqut_fO95zOBf4k1YQjL-UF0

https://insideevs.com/features/347409/german-study-diesels-cleaner-electric/

Thankfully, the study was promptly and definitively debunked, as it was found to be teeming with errors and inaccuracies.
A constant stream of anti-EV hit pieces crosses our virtual desk, but this one sounded much more serious than the usual anonymous rants. A respected German research institute released a study claiming EVs are dirtier than diesel - exactly what many in the German auto industry were longing to hear.
“Considering Germany’s current energy mix and the amount of energy used in battery production, the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads the study from the Munich-based Institute for Economic Research (IFO).
Journalists immediately predicted that automakers would use the new study to lobby policymakers to abandon support for EVs. But, as those who follow the EV scene know, dozens of earlier studies from around the world have come to precisely the opposite conclusion. Could this really be a legitimate scientific study?

Nope. The specious study was promptly and definitively debunked. A few days after it appeared, two of Germany’s major media outlets published detailed analyses that exposed a long list of errors and inaccuracies in the report.

The IFO authors inexplicably calculate CO2 emissions for Model 3 that are 16 percent higher than the official figures published by Germany’s Federal Environmental Agency.
In its calculations of full-lifecycle emissions, the article includes the emissions from electricity generation for EVs, but does not include the emissions generated in producing and transporting the fuel for diesel vehicles.

Unfortunately, as Jonathan Swift (apparently) said, “a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.”


Yup a 3 person Opinion report with no peer backing … they just want Fossil Fuels around a bit longer, and if that industry is buttering their plate , who can blame them. ;)

More Greeny Tesla Fan Girl lies from the intellectually handicapped Tweedledee. What a dumb drongo she is.

Pollution spewing electric heaps will be banned in due course as they cause so much pollution by overloading the coal power stations.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 2^nd, 2019 at 10:12am:

DEBUNKED Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 23rd, 2019 at 1:17pm: Quote: Electric vehicles emit more CO2 than diesel ones, German study shows Electric vehicles in Germany account for more CO2 emissions than diesel ones, according to a study by German scientists. When CO2 emissions linked to the production of batteries and the German energy mix - in which coal still plays an important role - are taken into consideration, electric vehicles emit 11% to 28% more than their diesel counterparts, according to the study, presented on Wednesday at the Ifo Institute in Munich. Mining and processing the lithium, cobalt and manganese used for batteries consume a great deal of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery, for example, represents between 11 and 15 tonnes of CO2. Given a lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometres, this translates into 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometre, scientists Christoph Buchal, Hans-Dieter Karl and Hans-Werner Sinn noted in their study. The CO2 given off to produce the electricity that powers such vehicles also needs to be factored in, they say. When all these factors are considered, each Tesla emits 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometre, which is more than a comparable diesel vehicle produced by the German company Mercedes, for example. The German researchers therefore take issue with the fact that European officials view electric vehicles as zero-emission ones. They note further that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per km by 2030 corresponds to a “technically unrealistic” consumption of 2.2 litres of diesel or 2.6 litres of gas per 100 kms. These new limits pressure German and other European car manufacturers into switching massively to electric vehicles whereas, the researchers feel, it would have been preferable to opt for methane engines, “whose emissions are one-third less than those of diesel motors.” Oscar Schneider The Brussels Times http://www.brusselstimes.com/business/technology/15050/electric-vehicles-emit-more-co2-than-diesel-ones,-german-study-shows?fbclid=IwAR0ysBiZi2FurE8ZwePKMtYxwkRUOqffVMChqut_fO95zOBf4k1YQjL-UF0 https://insideevs.com/features/347409/german-study-diesels-cleaner-electric/ Thankfully, the study was promptly and definitively debunked, as it was found to be teeming with errors and inaccuracies. A constant stream of anti-EV hit pieces crosses our virtual desk, but this one sounded much more serious than the usual anonymous rants. A respected German research institute released a study claiming EVs are dirtier than diesel - exactly what many in the German auto industry were longing to hear. “Considering Germany’s current energy mix and the amount of energy used in battery production, the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads the study from the Munich-based Institute for Economic Research (IFO). Journalists immediately predicted that automakers would use the new study to lobby policymakers to abandon support for EVs. But, as those who follow the EV scene know, dozens of earlier studies from around the world have come to precisely the opposite conclusion. Could this really be a legitimate scientific study? Nope. The specious study was promptly and definitively debunked. A few days after it appeared, two of Germany’s major media outlets published detailed analyses that exposed a long list of errors and inaccuracies in the report. The IFO authors inexplicably calculate CO2 emissions for Model 3 that are 16 percent higher than the official figures published by Germany’s Federal Environmental Agency. In its calculations of full-lifecycle emissions, the article includes the emissions from electricity generation for EVs, but does not include the emissions generated in producing and transporting the fuel for diesel vehicles. Unfortunately, as Jonathan Swift (apparently) said, “a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.” Yup a 3 person Opinion report with no peer backing … they just want Fossil Fuels around a bit longer, and if that industry is buttering their plate , who can blame them. ;)

Oh well it's badluck for socko. He has to go back to posting pictures of car accidents again :D LOL

The incredibly dumb intellectually handicapped Tweedledumb who is incapable of understanding any of this tech stuff sprouts the usual Greeny Tesla Fan Girl rubbish.

No doubt what she wants to see is another dangerous unsafe pollution spewing Tesla crash.


https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX133/a421bb44-bdaf-4956-9df6-89922de5317b.JPG
A dangerous unsafe Tesla X suffers the very common catastrophe of a wheel falling off after the faulty suspension breaks.

Anecdotes aren't evidence.


Juliar is distracting from the subject

Bojack is LTYC's love child

BJ are you really ?

But how about another dangerous unsafe pollution spewing Tesla crash

https://media.local10.com/photo/2019/02/25/Davie%20police%20believe%20speed%20was%20factor%20in%20fiery%20Tesla%20crash20190225231542.jpg_20408360_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg
Tesla S spews its last pollution

juliar wrote on May 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

BJ are you really ? But how about another dangerous unsafe pollution spewing Tesla crash https://media.local10.com/photo/2019/02/25/Davie%20police%20believe%20speed%20was%20factor%20in%20fiery%20Tesla%20crash20190225231542.jpg_20408360_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg Tesla S spews its last pollution

How about not posting anecdotes and distracting from the subject which is a flawed study

BH,

you are talking pure waffle.

It is now already well established that the all electric cars are filthy dirty pollution spewing disasters much worse than diesels.

But the huge diesel powered machines are far too large to be powered by little batteries and so they are waiting for the next hydrogen fuel.

All electric cars create massive pollution by overloading the coal power stations. The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station.

And showing actual factual crashes shows that the dangerous unsafe pollution spewing Teslas come to grief in real life.


https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Model-X-wheel-crash-fire-wreckage.jpg
Slightly mangled Tesla S that won't spew anymore pollution

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 7^th, 2019 at 5:31pm:

juliar wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:22pm: BJ are you really ? But how about another dangerous unsafe pollution spewing Tesla crash https://media.local10.com/photo/2019/02/25/Davie%20police%20believe%20speed%20was%20factor%20in%20fiery%20Tesla%20crash20190225231542.jpg_20408360_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg Tesla S spews its last pollution How about not posting anecdotes and distracting from the subject which is a flawed study

juliar is retarded. His carer posts all of the rubbish under his name :D LOL

The mental patient Tweedledumb spews more pollution than thought possible. Just like the dirty filthy pollution spewing Tesla Toy cars.