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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Muslims who support the Taliban http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1548481846 Message started by freediver on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm

Title: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm

In this thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1543198807

Gandalf has made the following claims about the Taliban:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

That assisting the great satan to invade and fight their fellow Muslims would have been a face-saving exercise for the Taliban.

That instead of invading, the US should have accepted the Taliban offer to hand over Bin Laden, subject to their review (of unspecified duration) of US intelligence in Afghanistan. Gandalf also conceded eventually that there is no reason to believe they were capable of delivering Bin Laden.

That Afghanistan under the Taliban was less of a threat to the US than Saudi Arabia.

That the Saudi's treatment of women is no worse than the Taliban.

The Taliban were an effective and stable government.

Saudi Arabia was a bigger threat because they exported Wahhabism, which is vaguely linked to terrorism in an arm waving sort of sense, but exporting Wahhabism does not actually refer to either ideas or to terrorism.

The facts:

In 1992, the Taliban barely existed. By 1996 they had gained control of over half the country, though anti-Taliban insurgents remained active in areas nominally under their control, and in Gandalfs own words were in a "marriage of convenience" with Al Quaida. Gandalf could never explain whether marriage implies authority or control over Al Quaida, or if it meant they were equals. The majority of Afghans supported US invasion.

In Saudi Arabia, 60% of adult women have a secondary education. Female literacy is estimated at 91%. 20% of the parliament is made up of women.

The Taliban placed women under virtual house arrest. They did not allow women to be educated past the age of 8, and until then were only allowed to study the quran. Students and teachers faced execution for obtaining or giving a real education. Amnesty International reported that 80% of marriages were forced.

The deflections to Saudi Arabia appear to be an effort to blame the US rather than Muslims for everything, on account of the Saudis being a US ally. If we work with Muslims, it is bad and every consequence is our fault. If we work against them it is bad and every consequence is our fault. If we leave them to themselves and ISIS takes over, it is our fault because of what we did in the past...

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:22pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

The deflections to Saudi Arabia appear to be an effort to blame the US rather than Muslims for everything, on account of the Saudis being a US ally. If we work with Muslims, it is bad and every consequence is our fault. If we work against them it is bad and every consequence is our fault. If we leave them to themselves and ISIS takes over, it is our fault because of what we did in the past...

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 6:29pm

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

FD's been apologising for them. Now he's evading. What do you call this, old boy?

That's right - squishy, mendacious, yeah-but-no-but spineless apologism - on stilts.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 6:37pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 6:29pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

FD's been apologising for them. Now he's evading. What do you call this, old boy?

That's right - squishy, mendacious, yeah-but-no-but spineless apologism - on stilts.

In a discussion about the Taliban - and evil embodiment of Islamic ideology - you Mohamedans deflect to Saudi - an evil embodiment of Islamic ideology.

Why not stick to the evil embodiment of Islam under discussion? Do we need to cover ALL the evils of Islam in ALL the discussions?

But when we do THAT, you Mohammedans get all SPECIFIC. When we are specific, you go 'yeah but what about'.

Shifty, dishonest, untrustworthy.

Let's talk about the evil embodiments of Islamic ideology AS A WHOLE. Deal?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 8:17pm

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 6:37pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 6:29pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

FD's been apologising for them. Now he's evading. What do you call this, old boy?

That's right - squishy, mendacious, yeah-but-no-but spineless apologism - on stilts.

Now now, old boy, The Saudis actually did Sept 11 - the alleged source of your flailing discontent. The Saudis have undertaken a near genocide in Yemen. The Saudis have been taken over by a leader who is now so confident of his dominance in the region, he's prepared to send his boys into foreign countries to cut up US residents with bone saws in broad daylight.

And you want to get the Taliban.

What surprised me most of all was FD's complete forgiveness of Saudi atrocities. I knew he was cunning, but not that bad. For all of FD's I-blame-Islamism, he's prepared to evade and tap dance and tell porkies about Saudi Arabia.

You?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 27^th, 2019 at 5:27pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 8:17pm:

I would love to grind the Saudis' faces into the sand as much as the next man. And I really hope that it will happen in my lifetime, when the West fees itself from its energy dependence on freaky Muslims. Araby will sink back into the sand, and all their bickering will be parochial once more.

What would happen if a rogue billionaire with a sense of justice pulled off a counter- 9/11 against the Muslims and send a cruise missile to the Kaaba and destroyed it completely? What would Allah do?

There should be a 'go-fund-me' page for THAT! What would be the response? Hundreds of millions of dollars in 10 minutes flat, I guess.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by issuevoter on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 8:05am

Its pretty easy to find things about the Sauds that are disgusting. The Yemen war is Sunni against Shia. Its about religion. Not only is Islam carrying on a campaign against anyone unIslamic, it is fighting itself, and they don't mind using children or ambulances to carry their bombs.

Gandalf would say, well that's no different to using a drone. But it doesn't matter how you point out the sickness in Islam, Gandalf and the apologists will contradict it. They have no choice, because they are faced with the reality. Here's an example. The Taliban's treatment of the people it claims to love and represent. Kabul Ambulance bomb.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 11:23am

Frank wrote on Jan 27^th, 2019 at 5:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 8:17pm:

Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld already did that to the oil-rich country of Iraq, old boy.

Now we have a president who not only apologises for Saudi killings, he sells them billions in weapons to destroy the Yemeni population.

I'd say that's why FD goes for the Saudis. We know you'll happily carpetbomb anyone who's tinted.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 11:28am

issuevoter wrote on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 8:05am:

It's not about religion, it's about nationalism and ethnicity.

This is Saudi Arabia versus Iran, as every schoolboy knows.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 1:48pm

[whine voice]------aaaaannnndd it's got nuffink to do wiv islaaaaaaam[/whine voice]

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 6:08pm

moses wrote on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 1:48pm:

[whine voice]------aaaaannnndd it's got nuffink to do wiv islaaaaaaam[/whine voice]

If it did, why do you think the US would be backing the Saudis and Israelis against the Iranians?

I'm curious. I'm keen to know what you think.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Jan 29^th, 2019 at 1:56pm

Most probably because they are the best option.

Isn't Iran committed to wiping the Jews off the face of the earth if they get half a chance, (of course just because islam tells them that the trees and rocks will talk to them in the last days when killing said Jews has got nuffink to do wiv islam).

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 29^th, 2019 at 2:50pm

moses wrote on Jan 29^th, 2019 at 1:56pm:

No, Moses, but they are committed to giving Israel back to the Palestinians if you believe what they say.

Do you support the Saudis yourself?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Can you answer a simple question FD...

presented with two options:

a) have your regime overthrown by overwhelming military force
b) option B

What do you think even a misogynistic extremist, even-worse-than-Saudi-Arabia outfit like the taliban would have gone for?

take your time...

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 2:04pm

Quote:

No, Moses, but they are committed to giving Israel back to the Palestinians if you believe what they say.

Do you support the Saudis yourself?

What do I think?

Well after reading these bits:

04/01/19 15:50

Islamic Jihad leader Ziyad Nakhalah this week confirmed that Iran has a plan to start a multiple-front-war against Israel.

While in Tehran, where he met with Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani

The Iranian Supreme Leader stepped up his belligerent rhetoric against Israel

His message in all the Tweets he fired off over the past 8 months was that Israel will disappear by “the grace of the resistance.”

Influential Iranians now say that that there’s a real possibility the political system in Iran will collapse.

The internal problems in Iran will probably have no effect on the continuing Iranian entrenchment in Syria and Iraq and the preparations for war against Israel until the regime falls.

&

Ayatollah: Kill all Jews, annihilate Israel

Iran lays out legal case for genocidal attack against 'cancerous tumor'

Published: 02/05/2012 at 9:30 PM

The Iranian government, through a website proxy, has laid out the legal and religious justification for the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of its people.

The doctrine includes wiping out Israeli assets and Jewish people worldwide.

The article, written by Alireza Forghani, an analyst and a strategy specialist in Khamenei’s camp, now is being run on most state-owned sites, including the Revolutionary Guards’ Fars News Agency, showing that the regime endorses this doctrine.

Iran’s Defense Ministry announced this weekend that it test-fired an advanced two-stage, solid-fuel ballistic missile and boasted about successfully putting a new satellite into orbit, reminding the West that its engineers have mastered the technology for intercontinental ballistic missiles even as the Islamic state pushes its nuclear weapons program.

Forghani details the Islamic duty of jihad as laid out in the Quran for the sake of Allah and states that “primary jihad,” according to some Shiite jurists, can only occur when the Hidden Imam, the Shiites’ 12th Imam Mahdi, returns. Shiites believe Mahdi’’s return will usher in Armageddon.

In this regard, Ayatollah Khamenei has issued a fatwa in which he has even authorized carrying out primary jihad in the age of the absence of the Hidden imam under the authorization of Vali Faghih.

The article then quotes the Quran (Albaghara 2:191-193): “And slay them wherever ye find them,

In order to attack Iran, the article says, Israel needs the approval and assistance of America, and under the current passive climate in the United States, the opportunity must not be lost to wipe out Israel before it attacks Iran.

Forghani claims that Israel could be destroyed in less than nine minutes and that Khamenei, as utmost authority, the Velayete Faghih (Islamic Jurist), also believes that Israel and America not only must be defeated but annihilated.

The radicals ruling Iran today not only posses over 1,000 ballistic missiles but are on the verge of ICBM delivery and have sufficient enriched uranium for six nuclear bombs even as they continue to highly enrich uranium despite four sets of U.N. sanctions.

The Iranian secret documentary “The Coming Is Upon Us” clearly indicates that these radicals believe the destruction of Israel will trigger the coming of the last Islamic Messiah and that even Jesus Christ, who will convert to Islam, will act as Mahdi’s deputy, praying to Allah as he stands behind the 12th Imam.

I'm convinced that islam is one queer, evil, dangerous death cult.

The nut jobs in Iran must be curtailed when it comes to nuclear power.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Are you talking about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, or the American invasion?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 11:35pm

This may take some time.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 1:35pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:39pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Are you talking about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, or the American invasion?

Why would it be about the Russian one? The taliban didn't exist then.

The American invasion.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 9:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 1:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:39pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Are you talking about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, or the American invasion?

Why would it be about the Russian one? The taliban didn't exist then.

The American invasion.

I was trying to figure out whether B meant defeating the Russians or trying to drag the US into a quagmire. I guess in both cases it is B. Was that the answer you were looking for?

It reminds me of Abu's talk of an inevitable glorious Muslim victory against insurmountable odds, every time Muslims do something stupid.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 9:32pm

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 9:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 1:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:39pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Are you talking about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, or the American invasion?

Why would it be about the Russian one? The taliban didn't exist then.

The American invasion.

Strange. Didn't you just say exactly that about Saudi Arabia?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 12:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:00am:

issuevoter wrote on Feb 6^th, 2019 at 9:47pm:

You make a lot of accusations about Freediver that you say do not require quotes. I am not going to contradict you, because you say I already know these things. However, I would guess an analysis of your post would show you doing exactly what you accuse Freediver of doing.

Fairs fair issue, if FD is allowed to brand me as a taliban apologiser based on me objecting to invasion and indiscriminate bombing that kills 10s of thousands, then K should be allowed to call FD a Saudi apologiser for ridiculing the idea that the Saudi treatment of women is about on par with the taliban treatment of their women.

And then there's you branding me as someone who wants Iran to acquire nukes - after I pointed out that the US's double speak on the issue of nukes (we can have them, but others can't) is hindering efforts at non-proliferation.

All in all, K is on much stronger ground than either of you.

Gandalf, see the opening post for why I accuse you of being a Taliban apologist.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 1:22pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:00am:

issuevoter wrote on Feb 6^th, 2019 at 9:47pm:

Gandalf, see the opening post for why I accuse you of being a Taliban apologist.

Put it this way FD, do you agree that invading North Korea and overthrowing the Kim regime and installing democracy would reduce the nuclear threat they pose?

And then when you point out at the same time that this would not be the best course of action in view of the death and destruction it would cause - and that instead we should pursue a non-military course to reduce the threat - you'll have no problem with me labeling you an apologist for the Kim regime right?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:00am:

issuevoter wrote on Feb 6^th, 2019 at 9:47pm:

Gandalf, see the opening post for why I accuse you of being a Taliban apologist.

I think North Korea is a prime target for regime change. I think it was you who complained about us meddling in the middle east and using democracy as a justification when there are far worse regimes in Africa. Well, there is a bad one in Asia also. Not that I necessarily disagree on the best course of action.

How is this relevant to all the support you have offered the Taliban? Have you read the opening post yet? You don't seem to have realised why I started this thread.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:29pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:00am:

issuevoter wrote on Feb 6^th, 2019 at 9:47pm:

Gandalf, see the opening post for why I accuse you of being a Taliban apologist.

Good point, FD. Do you think North Korea is the next South Korea? How about China?

And why do you think Chairman Trump's making friends with Kim Jong Un and MBK rather than Ali Khamenei?

Islam?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:34pm

I think reuniting Korea would go down similar to reuniting Germany - plenty of economic issues caused by the cultural legacy of communism, but not many head hacking lunatics who actually prefer brutal, corrupt dictatorship to liberal democracy.

The war part would last about 5 minutes, provided China stayed out.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 8:53pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:34pm:

Sure, but how do you rate the cause of liberal democracy in Saudi Arabia, FD?

We'll try a scaling question. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being head hacking lunatics and 10 being liberal democrats, where do you put the Saudis?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:07pm

Somewhere near the bottom.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:45pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:07pm:

Somewhere near the bottom.

Right. And where do you rate their apologists and appeasers?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:13am

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:07pm:

Somewhere near the bottom.

right, so we've found a regime change of a brutal, oppressive regime that you don't support, or at least don't see it as a priority.

And when you make your case for why its "somewhere near the bottom" of your "to do" regime change list, despite being about the most oppressive Islamic regime currently in existence - you are not an apologist for that regime because...?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:19am

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:34pm:

Sorry FD, is this you citing one of the drawbacks of overthrowing Islamic regimes and attempting to install democracy?

Is this one of the argument you would present for why Saudi Arabia is "somewhere near the bottom" of the regime-change list, but not Afghanistan 2001? Can you talk us through this thought process of yours without exposing yourself as an apologist for a brutal Islamic regime, or a hypocrite?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 12:49pm

Quote:

Sorry FD, is this you citing one of the drawbacks of overthrowing Islamic regimes and attempting to install democracy?

I may not have mentioned this before, but Islam is the greatest modern threat to freedom and democracy.

Quote:

right, so we've found a regime change of a brutal, oppressive regime that you don't support, or at least don't see it as a priority.

It would be nice to get rid of him, and comparitively easy, as his support would evaporate given the absence of an evil religion devoted to his rule. We probably would have if not for the threat of Chinese involvement on the other side. Then again, Kim would keep his head down a bit more if there was nothing stopping us.

Quote:

Is this one of the argument you would present for why Saudi Arabia is "somewhere near the bottom" of the regime-change list, but not Afghanistan 2001? Can you talk us through this thought process of yours without exposing yourself as an apologist for a brutal Islamic regime, or a hypocrite?

I think you misunderstood my "somewhere near the bottom" comment. Also, you don't seem to realise why I accuse you of being a Taliban apologist. I suggest you read the OP.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 12:49pm:

I think you misunderstood my "somewhere near the bottom" comment.

I must have - but then again you won't explain it. I think this is what you call being slippery and evasive.

Would you support regime change in Saudi Arabia or not? Why do you cryptically raise the spectre of "head hacking lunatics who actually prefer brutal, corrupt dictatorship to liberal democracy" seemingly as an argument against removing Islamic regimes (as opposed to non-Islamic regimes like NK) - and then run away from it as soon as I ask you to elaborate?

Now might be a good time to address this - while you're not actually deflecting with false allegations of me deflecting. But now that you realise you are deflecting, I'm sure you've scrounge around for something...

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 2:47pm

Excuse me, FD, you forgot to answer this:

Quote:

And when you make your case for why its "somewhere near the bottom" of your "to do" regime change list, despite being about the most oppressive Islamic regime currently in existence - you are not an apologist for that regime because...?

Shurely some mishtake?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 7:26pm

Quote:

Would you support regime change in Saudi Arabia or not?

Sure. Depending on the regime of course. Obviously I would like to see the spread of democratic institutions.

Quote:

Why do you cryptically raise the spectre of "head hacking lunatics who actually prefer brutal, corrupt dictatorship to liberal democracy" seemingly as an argument against removing Islamic regimes (as opposed to non-Islamic regimes like NK) - and then run away from it as soon as I ask you to elaborate?

You interpreted it as an argument against it. My argument was only that it would be a lot easier in North Korea, but only if you exclude the risk of Chinese involvement. Not sure why you think this was "cryptic". I suspect you are just looking for something that is not actually there.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 7:34pm

All Muslim countries are hellish c***s of a place. All. Some are lawless, others are not.

We leave the lawful bastards in place because they are at least keeping their Muslim C***s in check, after a fashion. Or at least we can exert pressure on them.

The other c***s we have no influence over so we bomb them or let other Muslim c***s bomb them.

What don't you get, Paki?

They are all hideous dishonest farkers, but you can't be Roman about such barbarians any more because the UN and Amnesty would make a fuss. So we now pretend that barbarians are civilised and the civilised are barbarians.

Well, I am not doing any such pretending, I leave all that to you, Paki. Someone will give you ten rupee for being a an enemy of your own people and that will make you very pleased.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 8:30pm

FD, you didn't answer this.

Karnal wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 2:47pm:

Excuse me, FD, you forgot to answer this:

Quote:

Shurely some mishtake?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:30am

freediver wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 7:26pm:

Sure. Depending on...

What I'm getting at FD, is that on any other occasion that you're not a) blindly cheerleading US regime change or b) reflexively attacking whatever the resident muslim opposes - you actually take a more nuanced approach to regime change. Your defense of the disastrous Afghan invasion and subsequent quagmire is nothing short of shrill and completely irrational - and is clearly driven by a) not daring to question the wisdom of American military intervention (especially when its about "sticking it" to Islam) and b) clearly distinguishing yourself from the resident muslim who happens to have opposed it. Yet even with these key criterium I actually thought the sheer scale of the disaster of the invasion that has caused untold 10s of thousands of deaths and allowed bin Laden to get off the hook for 10 years - might cause some quiet reflection. Not so.

Yet you have demonstrated one thing here FD - that you are actually capable of calm, rational thought - just not when attacking Islam and/or the apologists is at stake.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:37am

Quote:

And you lie about the Taliban.

Can you give an example of a regime change I have commented on that was not lead by the US?

What do you think the implications would be of letting Muslims win a war against democracy?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 9:37am

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

And you lie about the Taliban.

Spoken like a true hysteric.

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

What do you think the implications would be of letting Muslims win a war against democracy?

Oh, you must be talking about the wrong kind of democracy - like when post-invasion Iraq tried to set up their own local democratic councils, that would elect candidates to the new federal parliament - but was quashed, violently, by the US occupation forces - in favour of their own puppets - and then the Iraqis fought against that. Or are you talking about when the Afghanis starting pushing back on the despot Karzai who the US repeatedly rigged elections for? Or maybe you mean when the US backed the brutal dictator Suharto in his coup against Sukarno who was in the midst of pushing through democratic reforms? Iran 1953...? etc etc.

I'm wondering, has the US actually ever fought "for democracy" in any of their interventions in the muslim world? Actual democracy I mean, as in letting the people decide.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 12:46pm

Quote:

Oh, you must be talking about the wrong kind of democracy - like when post-invasion Iraq tried to set up their own local democratic councils, that would elect candidates to the new federal parliament - but was quashed, violently, by the US occupation forces - in favour of their own puppets - and then the Iraqis fought against that.

Sounds like a backdoor to religious dictatorship to me Gandalf.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 2:55pm

Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:12pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.

Freeeedom, innit.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.

Yes we can Gandalf, if they have democracy. But if we had given them this backdoor Islamic dictatorship you are so fond of, they would have never gotten the chance.

So, you want to dismantle Iraq's democracy, and you will tell the most absurd and transparent lies in defence of the Taliban. Why do you always seem to side with the extremists?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 10:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 9:37am:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

And you lie about the Taliban.

Spoken like a true hysteric.

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

What do you think the implications would be of letting Muslims win a war against democracy?

But of course. They're backing MBK as we speak.

FD says the Saudis are the next South Korea. Oh, we gave Iraq a go, but that wasn't much chop. The Afghanis threw it back in our face, so ungrateful.

But we'll get Freeeeedom right one day, you'll see. You gotta have a dream, no?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 10:12am

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 8:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.

Quite the opposite FD. I just finished describing how *actual* democracy in Iraq was quashed violently by US occupation forces - and your typically condescending response was that it would have been a "backdoor to Islamic dictatorship".

You are literally saying that its right and appropriate to make muslim's democratic choices for them - in case they choose the "wrong" kind of democracy.

Its you who is advocating dismantling democracy, not me. Also its this kind of arrogant dismissal of the will of the people and 'knowing whats best for you' attitude that gives succor to the extremists. So you probably should ask yourself "why do you always seem to side with the extremists"?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 1:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:39pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Are you talking about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, or the American invasion?

Why would it be about the Russian one? The taliban didn't exist then.

The American invasion.

Gandalf are you suggesting the Taliban did not know about Russia's defeat, or that they knew what the outcome of an American invasion would be?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:51pm

Did FD answer your question, G? Are you satisfied?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:18pm

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

What were you saying about shifty, evasive Muslims, FD?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 9:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

Taqiyya.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 12:43pm

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

Something other than having your regime overthrown with overwhelming force.

Was that a trick question FD? What the hell does that have to do with the Russians?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 7:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

Something other than having your regime overthrown with overwhelming force.

Was that a trick question FD? What the hell does that have to do with the Russians?

If you didn't try to maintain your regime by force you would have a point. But Muslims always hang on to power in the face of grim determination to overthrow them.

Daffy Gaddafy, Soddem, the eye surgeon of Syria, the gay Palo Dear Leader, (sloberring Yasser), the lot of them.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 9:47pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 9:53pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

Taqiyya.

You no speaka da English, remember?

You flew here, you poor downtrodden victim, so unfair.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 9:57am

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 7:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

Something other than having your regime overthrown with overwhelming force.

Was that a trick question FD? What the hell does that have to do with the Russians?

Literally none of those leaders can be described as 'muslim leaders'. They were/are staunchly secularist, every one of them. To the point that they actively persecute/d anyone with an Islamist bent.

In most cases, if not all, it was their Islamist enemies that the Americans cuddled up to in order to overthrow them - and thereby plunging them into Islamist hell-holes.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 12:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

Something other than having your regime overthrown with overwhelming force.

Was that a trick question FD? What the hell does that have to do with the Russians?

What is the point of the question then Gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 3:50pm:

That they would have assisted the US to invade their own country, if the US had only asked them.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 2:20pm

I was making the point that the taliban would have preferred literally anything other than being overthrown. And the US should have used this to squeeze them into a compromise that benefits everyone.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 4:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 2:20pm:

I was making the point that the taliban would have preferred literally anything other than being overthrown. And the US should have used this to squeeze them into a compromise that benefits everyone.

Sure, but how would they get Freeeedom and become the next South Korea then?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 8:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 2:20pm:

I was making the point that the taliban would have preferred literally anything other than being overthrown.

Dictators are like that, aren't they? Do they teach you this stuff in islamic debating classes or is this all your stuff?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 8:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 9:57am:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 7:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2019 at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 12:30pm:

I can't even begin to understand that FD.

Try English.

What is option B Gandalf?

Something other than having your regime overthrown with overwhelming force.

Was that a trick question FD? What the hell does that have to do with the Russians?

Very well - who IS a legitimate MUSLIM LEADER then?

Tell us what you want to emulate or wish for.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 12:59pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 2:20pm:

I was making the point that the taliban would have preferred literally anything other than being overthrown. And the US should have used this to squeeze them into a compromise that benefits everyone.

So Islamic extremists would never choose to fight to the death rather than assist the great satan to kill fellow Muslims?

Do you think the Russian losses in Afghanistan might have influenced their perception of the situation?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 1:53pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 12:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 14^th, 2019 at 2:20pm:

I was making the point that the taliban would have preferred literally anything other than being overthrown. And the US should have used this to squeeze them into a compromise that benefits everyone.

No to your second question.

The taliban were clearly serious about transforming themselves from an insurgent group to a legitimate and accepted government in the eyes of the world. They craved acknowledgment through diplomatic relations and trade deals. As I keep reminding you, as late as 2001 they were sending envoys to the White House (ie the great satan) to plead for a gas pipeline deal. Strange behaviour for an outfit apparently only interested in killing the infidel and fighting to the death.

The difference between a 'fight to the death' insurgent group who spend their entire existence fighting an existing government, never having to worry about governing - and actually taking over an (almost) entire country and actually trying to govern - has clearly gone over your head. Even fanatics will become desparate to hold on to power once they attain it. Your suggestion that a ruling authority with all the power they could have dreamed of will happily relinquish power just so they can go back to the simple life of fighting the good fight against infidels - doesn't pass the common sense test.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 6:27pm

So you think the Taliban would have completely ignored what happened when the Russians invaded in deciding how to respond to American demands?

Do you think their desire for recognition would have extended to helping the great satan kill fellow Afghan Muslims - the ones you claim they were in a marriage of convenience with?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by gandalf on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 7:59pm

I'm not getting through am I FD?

You are suggesting that a group that has managed, after years of bitter fighting, to overthrow a national government and take over most of a country - would prefer to chuck it all in just so they can go back to square one - ie being insurgents trying to overthrow another government, as opposed to hanging on to the grand prize?

Can you at least think about how stupid that sounds?

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 6:27pm:

Do you think their desire for recognition would have extended to helping the great satan kill fellow Afghan Muslims

They were already trying to work with the great satan. They went to Washington to bend over and beg the great satan to intrude on their sacred Islamic land and build their gas pipeline. Hows does that fit in with your 'oppose the great satan no matter what' narrative?

Also bin Laden and his team were not "fellow Afghan muslims" - they were arabs, and obviously in their eyes, in a *VERY* different league to their Afghan brothers. There's a reason why I used the specific phrase marriage of convenience - and had it been convenient to end that marriage - say, I don't know, by giving them a way to save their regime, then I don't think they would have thought very hard about ending that marriage.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 10:13pm

Quote:

You are suggesting that a group that has managed, after years of bitter fighting, to overthrow a national government

What was the name of this government?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 10:22am

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2019 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

You are suggesting that a group that has managed, after years of bitter fighting, to overthrow a national government

What was the name of this government?

Interestingly, they called themselves The Islamic State of Afghanistan, and was a government of former Mujahideen who overthrew the Russian communist puppet regime in 1992. They in turn were overthrown by the Taliban during 1995-96

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 12:28pm

So this is the group you describe as a "national government"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Afghanistan

This ignited a civil war between five or six rival armies, (nearly) all backed by foreign states. Several mujahideen groups proclaimed an 'interim government' on 26 April 1992 but this never attained real authority over Afghanistan.

Quote:

You are suggesting that a group that has managed, after years of bitter fighting, to overthrow a national government and take over most of a country - would prefer to chuck it all in just so they can go back to square one - ie being insurgents trying to overthrow another government, as opposed to hanging on to the grand prize?

They may well have thought they would win. The Afghans had just sent the Russians packing. In any case, they still had not conquered Afghanistan, and would have seen their militant support base evaporate overnight if they assisted the Americans to kill fellow Afghan Muslims.

They had no good choices, because they were not in control of the situation. Even if they had wanted to hand Bin Laden over, there is no reason to believe they were able to. This left them with "helping" the Americans invade, which is hardly a viable option for an Islamic state.

Your position is nothing short of head-in-the-sand naivete.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 1:11pm

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

assisted the Americans to kill fellow Afghan Muslims.

bin Laden was not Afghani.

While its true the pashtun (the ethnicity of the taliban) has some honour code towards people they saw as 'guests' (which they often referred to Al Qaeda as), betraying a bunch of rich arab upstarts would be in a completely different ballpark to betraying their fellow Afghanis. If push comes to shove, and knowing how desparate the taliban were to preserve their regime, I think they would have been up for it. Even to the point of allowing a small American commando force in to take out AQ.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 9:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

assisted the Americans to kill fellow Afghan Muslims.

So your non-naive proposal is that the Taliban assist the great satan to capture bin Laden without killing any Afghan Muslims?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 20^th, 2019 at 5:10pm

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 9:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

assisted the Americans to kill fellow Afghan Muslims.

So your non-naive proposal is that the Taliban assist the great satan to capture bin Laden without killing any Afghan Muslims?

Ideally yes. At least that is certainly a lot closer to my stance than the proposition that the taliban assist in an "invasion" of their country. I can only repeat that the taliban were not suicidal, and actually were interested in building a state - and certainly not in being a permanent insurgent force achieving nothing but glorious defeats in perpetuity.

Also, in response to the use of the term 'great satan' - presumably to strengthen your case, this is a term used by the Ayatollahs in Iran, and as far as I'm aware the taliban ever referring to the US in these terms. You may think its mere semantic, but I will point out again that the taliban spent years attempting to curry favour with the US, especially in regards to getting a US gas pipeline deal through their country. You scoff at the idea of the taliban allowing "great satan" forces in to capture bin Laden - I counter by pointing out that they were already trying to do deals with the 'great satan' and were more than happy to invite them in to trample all over the 'pure muslim land'.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 20^th, 2019 at 5:31pm

The taliban and their warning to the US that was ignored:

Quote:

Weeks before the terrorist attacks on 11 September, the United States and the United Nations ignored warnings from a secret Taliban emissary that Osama bin Laden was planning a huge attack on American soil.

The warnings were delivered by an aide of Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil, the Taliban Foreign Minister at the time, who was known to be deeply unhappy with the foreign militants in Afghanistan, including Arabs.

Mr Muttawakil, now in American custody, believed the Taliban's protection of Mr bin Laden and the other al-Qa'ida militants would lead to nothing less than the destruction of Afghanistan by the US military. He told his aide: "The guests are going to destroy the guesthouse."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-the-taliban-minister-the-us-envoy-and-the-warning-of-september-11-that-was-ignored-131426.html

well worth a read.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 20^th, 2019 at 9:37pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2019 at 5:10pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 9:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 19^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

assisted the Americans to kill fellow Afghan Muslims.

So your non-naive proposal is that the Taliban assist the great satan to capture bin Laden without killing any Afghan Muslims?

Ideally yes. At least that is certainly a lot closer to my stance than the proposition that the taliban assist in an "invasion" of their country.

So now we now have leapt from the Taliban probably not even being capable of delivering Bin Laden (despite offering to as part of "negotiations"), to the Taliban being capable of helping the US to capture Bin Laden without the US invading and without the death of a single Afghan?

Would you like to take a moment to get your story straight before continuing?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 7:16am

Excuse me, FD, I have a question.

Did the US capture bin Laden after invading Afganistan?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 9:58am

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2019 at 9:37pm:

You seem to be insinuating that the two positions are incompatible? How so?

Its not either or - I believe I've maintained both positions simultaneously all along.

Do you agree that the course taken by the US was the worst possible outcome for everyone - given the quagmire the US is still stuck in 18 years later and counting, the suffering it has caused to Afghanis - not to mention that it failed in its stated objective - to actually capture or kill bin Laden?

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2019 at 9:37pm:

without the US invading

Its not technically an invasion if you are invited in - is it?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 2:43pm

Quote:

Do you agree that the course taken by the US was the worst possible outcome for everyone - given the quagmire the US is still stuck in 18 years later and counting, the suffering it has caused to Afghanis - not to mention that it failed in its stated objective - to actually capture or kill bin Laden?

You musn't have been over all the international news outlets that day Gandalf. Bin Laden is dead.

The invasion of Afghanistan was the worst possible option - except for all the others.

How would the Taliban have helped the US capture Bin Laden without any casualties and without the US invading? A cunning plan?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 3:25pm

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 2:43pm:

You musn't have been over all the international news outlets that day Gandalf. Bin Laden is dead.

It took them 10 years, untold 10s of thousands of dead and a continuing military quagmire to kill him. I don't know, do you think thats an acceptable transactional cost? Do you think they 'war-gamed' this scenario before they launched the invasion and thought, yeah that will be worth doing? I'm guessing not.

I'll take a punt and suggest that a US-Taliban join operation wouldn't have taken 10 years, less people would have died, and the US wouldn't be still fighting an insurgency and stuck with maintaining a costly occupation of Afghanistan 18 years later.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 3:58pm

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 2:43pm:

Quote:

You musn't have been over all the international news outlets that day Gandalf. Bin Laden is dead.

That's a relief. Are you saying Uncle didn't need to invade Afghanistan after all?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 21^st, 2019 at 8:31pm

Quote:

It took them 10 years, untold 10s of thousands of dead and a continuing military quagmire to kill him. I don't know, do you think thats an acceptable transactional cost?

It's not a transaction Gandalf. It's a war.

Quote:

I'll take a punt and suggest that a US-Taliban join operation wouldn't have taken 10 years, less people would have died, and the US wouldn't be still fighting an insurgency and stuck with maintaining a costly occupation of Afghanistan 18 years later.

Only problem is, it would have never happened at all.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

Are you saying the invasion had no other purpose than to avenge a terrorist attack?

I think you would agree with the idea that the purpose of the invasion was to put an end to the terrorist threat of bin Laden yes? The question then becomes was invasion and occupation of an entire country for years on end was the only way to achieve that. I suggest that it wasn't - even without the benefit of hindsight.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

They were at war Gandalf. Lets try this real slowly. Bin laden declared war on America. He attacked repeatedly, each time escalating the scale of the attack. I've been telling you this for dozens of pages and you are still giving me the "me no speaka da english" routine.

The astonishing incompetence and stupidity of Muslims is not the same thing as benign intent.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 12:01pm

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

"war" is a nebulous term FD, and can take many forms.

The only point you seem to be making is that invasion and occupation of an entire country was the only way to prosecute that war. I say it wasn't. Nor are we fundamentally disagreeing on what the situation was, and what needed to be done about it (ie stop bin Laden).

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:12pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 12:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

There are plenty of ways to prosecute war. You could blow up buildings full of innocent people. You could invade. Either way, people are going to die Gandalf.

And we are fundamentally disagreeing, because you keep asking me if establishing democracy was sufficient justification for the invasion.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:56pm

I don't believe I ever mentioned democracy FD.

My questions have only been around how was the best way to remove the threat of OBL and co.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 12:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

Excuse me, FD, are you saying Uncle invaded to blow up buildings of innocent people/Muselmen? When he could have just done a quick Special Forces op in Pakistan?

Is that what you mean by Freeeedom? Please explain.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:56pm:

I don't believe I ever mentioned democracy FD.

My questions have only been around how was the best way to remove the threat of OBL and co.

By imagining an impossible scenario where the Taliban help the US to capture him without the US invading and without killing any Afghans. Every aspect of your alternative is built on absurd naivete.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 9:25am

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:07pm:

By imagining an impossible scenario where the Taliban help the US to capture him without the US invading and without killing any Afghans

To be fair FD, I'm actually the one exploring alternatives, while you are doggedly stuck to the idea that only one solution existed, and if you don't/didn't support that solution - you are necessarily a taliban apologist.

And yet, I've cited US official themselves who were involved with pre- 9/11 dealings with the taliban, saying that not trying to work out a deal with the taliban to capture or kill bin Laden represented a "missed opportunity". I've cited the revelation that the taliban foreign minister himself, someone who had close access to the supreme leader Mullah Omar, reached out to the US through Pakistani channels to warn them about a possible attack before 9/11, and clearly expressed his fear that OBL would "ruin the guesthouse". Then I referenced the envoys sent by the Taliban to Washington to try and thrash out a pipeline deal - dispelling this myth that you keep running with that the taliban would never entertain working or cooperating with "the great satan" (a phrase not even used by them, but by Iranians).

Respectfully, I think its unreasonable to insist that no viable alternatives existed - in view of what we know about the taliban (pragmatic and self-preserving) as well as the evidence of them willing to and actually reaching out to the US to help them deal with what they clearly identified as a millstone around their neck (ie OBL).

And by the way, saying all that is not apologising or supporting the taliban.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 11:49am

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 12:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

FD?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Mr Hammer on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 11:59am

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 11:17pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 11:59am:

Good point, Homo.

FD? You still haven't answered.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 10:20am

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 12:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

using wikipedia figures:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

The initial bombing campaign by the US caused a humanitarian crisis during the winter of 2001-2, in which estimates put the death toll due to starvation and exposure to a bare minimum of 3 thousand and as many as 10 thousand. This is on top of the 1000-1300 directly killed by the US bombardment. To date there have been over 31000 documented civilian deaths due to the war and about the same number of wounded. If we include indirect deaths (people who died but otherwise would not have because of the war), the toll is obviously going to be a lot higher. This doesn't even include the huge toll in Pakistan where the war has spilled over into.

Obviously one has to weigh this toll against any potential toll resulting from a continuation of the pre-invasion situation. Very difficult of course, but I propose a scenario in which the US, backed with all the goodwill of the world behind them due to 9/11 sympathies, could have been a genuine peace maker. They could always do their "shock and awe" demonstration of their awesome power thing against bin Laden, which as I have argued, even the taliban could have got on board with - if it meant the quid pro quo was an assurance their regime could continue (with conditions of course). A peace agreement with some sort of power sharing deal between the taliban and the so called 'northern alliance' could have been brokered by the west. Such an agreement is actually not that far fetched - as the taliban had been holding talks with Massoud and other warlords on and off to negotiate just that. Yes they ultimately fell through, but the fact that they happened at all indicated good will on both sides.

Yes, it would require us to hold our noses and work with a brutal Islamofascist regime who had been harbouring (albeit reluctantly) international terrorists. But the reason we must hold our noses is because of the tragedy that unfolded indicated by the above figures. unleashing war invariably sets off something far worse. It is why the Nuremberg court judged unleashing war itself - not the unspeakable war crimes that happened during the war, and not even the holocaust - as the "supreme crime", from which all other war-related crimes spawn from.

We pretend that 'war as a last resort' is our modus operandi, but in reality it is not. Too often it is our first resort, and launched far too eagerly without thinking of the consequences. We need to trully and honestly adopt a "war as a last resort" attitude if we are serious about building a better world.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 12:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 9:25am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:07pm:

By imagining an impossible scenario where the Taliban help the US to capture him without the US invading and without killing any Afghans

Fabricating absurd lies and changing them every time their absurdity finally dawns on you is not "exploring other alternatives". It is telling whatever lie pops into your head to make the US look bad. So we have your hypocrisy of complaining about the US cooperating with the Saudis at the same time as complaining about them not cooperating with the Taliban, backed up by your lies about the Saudis treating women worse than the Taliban. It took about a dozen pages to explain to you that the Taliban was neither capable nor willing of capturing Bin Laden and handing him over, you simply leapt to the next absurdity, which has since morphed into a proposal that the Taliban would have helped the US capture Bin Laden without invading and without the loss of a single Afghan life.

Can you tell the difference between exploring and breaking with reality?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 2:08pm

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 12:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 25^th, 2019 at 9:25am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:07pm:

By imagining an impossible scenario where the Taliban help the US to capture him without the US invading and without killing any Afghans

You'll forgive me FD, if I don't see any actual attempt to address any of my arguments.

And with respect, I haven't changed any of my arguments, I believe I've been consistent all the way through. But I'm not going to go back on well worn territory and address all that again.

So I take it your final answer is that invasion, regime change and endless occupation that kills 10s of thousands and counting - was the only option worth considering at the time?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 5:45pm

Quote:

You'll forgive me FD, if I don't see any actual attempt to address any of my arguments.

I pointed out that they were ridiculous fantasies built on the lies you have told in defense of the Taliban.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 6:48pm

Actually nothing I said was in defense of the taliban FD.

Sometimes you have to do deals with the devil in order to prevent something far worse - which war almost always is. Its not as if this is something the US is averse to doing - hence why Saudi Arabia still stands, and we send them weapons and logistical support to carry out their genocide. I happen to think the invasion, occupation and ongoing suffering caused by the invasion was the worst imaginable humanitarian course to take. Even if we propped the taliban up and gave them free bombs and guns to massacre the hazaraz, in return for a quick, surgical removal of AQ - its difficult to imagine that would have a worse humanitarian outcome than what we see today in Afghanistan.

Also, you haven't answered my question - is your final answer that the invasion, regime change and occupation of Afghanistan was the only viable option to take in your view - even without the benefit of hindsight?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 7:01pm

Quote:

Actually nothing I said was in defense of the Taliban FD.

You said they treat women better than the Saudis, which is clearly untrue. You said we should have accepted their offer of delivering Bin laden to us, even though you have not even demonstrated such an offer existed or was genuine. Then you invented this elaborate fantasy whereby they would help the great Satan capture Bin Laden without invading or kiling any Afghans. You lies are getting more and more elaborate and more detached from reality.

Quote:

Sometimes you have to do deals with the devil

Unless you actually do this, as the US does with the Saudis, in which case you have to whinge about it constantly.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 7:22pm

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 7:01pm:

You said they treat women better than the Saudis

No FD, I did not.

Can we at least start with the facts? :)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 8:56pm

So how does the treatment of women under the Taliban compare with the Saudis?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 11:50pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 10:20am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 1:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 12:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 11:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:11am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2019 at 9:08am:

All wars are based on transactions FD.

"We'll invade in order to achieve x"

They invaded because Bin Laden declared war on them and attacked them repeatedly when they tried to ignore him. So they killed Bin Laden.

Hold our noses? G, George W had a barbecue for the Taliban in the Texan Governor's mansion. He wanted them to sign a billion dollar gas pipeline deal for his father and their friends.

If Bush could do this as governor, why could he not negotiate with the same people as president?

I'd ask FD, but he won't say. He's still cheering on the Bush family's lucrative deals with Saudi Arabia.

You know, the ones that bring us all Freeeeedom.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 11:53pm

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 8:56pm:

So how does the treatment of women under the Taliban compare with the Saudis?

We'll ask you, FD. How does the treatment of women under the Saudis compare with the Taliban?

That's a question.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 5:46pm

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 8:56pm:

So how does the treatment of women under the Taliban compare with the Saudis?

You can always refer back to what I actually said FD. And indeed I suspect that doing that would be a good remedy against coming out with such out and out untruths as claiming I said the taliban treated women better than the Saudis do. That would at least save me the trouble of having to correct you all the time.

Not that its a useful point to debate on this topic anyway.

What interests me far more than playing such amusing games as 'guess what gandalf said - without looking at his actual quotes', is to address the actual point in this debate: which is whether or not you think that after bin Laden launched his war against the US, there was any other way for the US to prosecute that war besides invasion, regime change and a seemingly endless (17 years and counting) and catastrophic occupation?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 5:49pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 26^th, 2019 at 11:50pm:

He wanted them to sign a billion dollar gas pipeline deal for his father and their friends.

Ah yes, his good ol' oil buddies - which included one Hamid Karzai.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 6:50pm

Quote:

Would you say the Saudis treat women better than the Taliban did?

Would you deny that shooting 8 year old girls in the back of the head for the crime of learning to read might cause them to self censor? Or would you break my sentence up into one word at a time and deny that each word causes self censorship?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 7:22pm

FD was it not enough that you so blatantly misrepresent me by falsely accusing me of saying the taliban treated their women better than the Saudis? How much more petty gotchas are you going to attempt before you bother to simply read back on what I actually said?

And now apparently the question of whether the US should have invaded Afghanistan now boils down to whether or not Afghan women self censored.

I'm not sure where that bizarre curve ball came from FD. Is it possible you are mixing up threads? Or are you saying its actually Indonesian women who get shot in the back of the head for reading, and you posted in the wrong thread?

Forgive me if it seems you are grasping here. But if you ever feel like addressing the actual topic, here's some food for thought:

Quote:

What interests me far more than playing such amusing games as 'guess what gandalf said - without looking at his actual quotes', is to address the actual point in this debate: which is whether or not you think that after bin Laden launched his war against the US, there was any other way for the US to prosecute that war besides invasion, regime change and a seemingly endless (17 years and counting) and catastrophic occupation?

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts FD. I think the last word on the subject was you insisting that the US was forced into war by bin Laden (I agree) - but then seeming to insist that the only way the US could prosecute that war was to invade, overthrow and occupy Afghanistan (which turned into a clusterfvck of monumental proportions). I think it would have been interesting to explore that question further, and firstly to confirm you do indeed hold that this was the only viable option, and if so, why you wouldn't have contemplated an option that saves the US the burden of years of occupation and fighting a bloody insurgency. But alas you just descended into clever gotchas to prove that gandalf loves the taliban. Then again I shouldn't be surprised - the thread title being what it is after all...

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by John Smith on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 8:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 7:22pm:

FD was it not enough that you so blatantly misrepresent me

Fd misrepresent what someone else says? :o :o :o Never.

You wash your mouth out with soap young man.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:14am

John Smith wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 8:29pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 7:22pm:

FD was it not enough that you so blatantly misrepresent me

Fd misrepresent what someone else says? :o :o :o Never.

You wash your mouth out with soap young man.

Excuse me, FD, what sound does a jellyfish make?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 8:53am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 7:22pm:

Do the Saudis treat women better than the Taliban did?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 11:57am

freediver wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 8:53am:

Do the Saudis treat women better than the Taliban did?

I doubt it, I think they are on about a par. Not that its a terribly useful thing to try and compare - given the completely different economic and political environments (eg Saudi women by default have a better standard of living - by simple virtue of living in a far wealthier country). But if you really wanted to understand my thoughts on the matter, you could always take notice of what I've already said. I mean lets be honest here FD, this latest inquisition only started after I caught you out blatantly misrepresenting me by saying I claimed taliban women were treated better than Saudi women. Sorry for saying so FD, but this really does seem like a desperate face-saving exercise on your part - to make your blatant and proven misrepresentation somehow seem more presentable. Basically, and not to put too fine a point on it, rather than simply show some contrition, you plough on with your belligerence. So you'll forgive me if I decide not to endulge you in this FD face-saving exercise - and depart this little tangent by referring you to what I've already said on the matter :)

I take it also you repeatedly ignoring my attempts to bring this thread back to the actual point of the discussion - ie your actual reasons for why you think there was definitely no alternative to invasion, overthrow and occupation in responding to 9/11, and that suggesting there was is tantamount to apologising for Islamofascism - you will not be partaking any further in this discussion? That would indeed be a shame if that were the case.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 1:05pm

Quote:

I doubt it, I think they are on about a par.

What do the Saudis do that is "on par" with shooting an 8 year old girl in the back of the head for the crime of learning to read? Is it something do with the America?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 2:00pm

Since you are being so specific, I'm assuming this was an actual incident that happened, and which can be verified. (though in passing I must say I haven't found anything in my initial search). In any case, its not in dispute that some pretty horrific atrocities happened under the taliban.

As for "on par" with such an atrocity or similar, does blocking a whole group of school girls from escaping a fire and letting them suffocate to death because they are immodestly dressed count FD?

No doubt you are au fait with the female human rights activists who are currently locked up and being tortured in Saudi prisons, including one who has just been sentenced to beheading? This was for such high crimes as advocating for women to be allowed to drive.

I'm sure Issue would have an entire laundry list of Saudi atrocities he'd be only too happy to provide you with FD, if you were really interested. Then you can compare and contrast with the taliban till your hearts content.

Anyway, I'll take that as confirmation that you are not going to talk anymore about the justification of the invasion, and why you insist invasion, overthrow and endless occupation was the only acceptable response to 9/11. Shame :-/

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 6:08pm

Quote:

Anyway, I'll take that as confirmation

Take what as confirmation?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 6:34pm

freediver wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 6:08pm:

Quote:

Anyway, I'll take that as confirmation

Take what as confirmation?

Your ignoring of my question. But if you're having second thoughts, here it is again:

Quote:

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Mar 3^rd, 2019 at 9:28am

I think your absurd little fantasies have pretty much proven that to be the case Gandalf. Let us know if you come up with something that does not require a complete break with reality.

Quote:

As for "on par" with such an atrocity or similar, does blocking a whole group of school girls from escaping a fire and letting them suffocate to death because they are immodestly dressed count FD?

Not really. The Taliban would have been the ones setting the school on fire as punishment for them going to school.

The Taliban presented every girl over 8 in the regions they controlled with the death penalty for learning to read, and girls under 8 with the death penalty for learning to read anything other than the Quran. It was not an isolated incident, it was an actively enforced policy.

Do you really think that is "on par" with the Saudis, or do you just hate educated women?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 8:26am

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2019 at 9:28am:

I think your absurd little fantasies have pretty much proven that to be the case Gandalf. Let us know if you come up with something that does not require a complete break with reality.

My 'absurd fantasies' shouldn't preclude you from having an opinion on whether or not invasion, regime change and decades of occupation was the best (only?) viable response to 9/11. But I take it from your continued refusal to answer this as confirmation that you do in fact believe it was the only viable option.

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2019 at 9:28am:

The Taliban presented every girl over 8 in the regions they controlled with the death penalty for learning to read, and girls under 8 with the death penalty for learning to read anything other than the Quran. It was not an isolated incident, it was an actively enforced policy.

Can you verify this claim FD?

I'd be surprised if it turns out that capital punishment for girls under 8 was an "actively enforced policy" under the taliban.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 12:12pm

Quote:

My 'absurd fantasies' shouldn't preclude you from having an opinion on whether or not invasion, regime change and decades of occupation was the best (only?) viable response to 9/11.

I am yet to see a better one.

Quote:

Can you verify this claim FD?

I'd be surprised if it turns out that capital punishment for girls under 8 was an "actively enforced policy" under the taliban.

Yep. Keep polishing that turd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women

Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Afghanistan#Education

The Taliban are still opposed to education for Afghan boys and girls. They are burning down schools, killing students and teachers by all kinds of means, including chemical warfare.

Gandalf would you be so eager to defend the Taliban if the US had worked with them as you suggest, and as you criticise them for doing with the Saudis? Does your ability to criticise Muslims depend entirely on your ability to pass the blame onto the US at every opportunity?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 1:18pm

freediver wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 12:12pm:

Yep.

Sorry FD, but nowhere in either of those links can I see anything about executing girls under 8 for learning to read being an "actively enforced policy". I'd be surprised if any under 8 year old girls were executed under the taliban - for anything.

I'm all for condemning the taliban for the atrocities they committed - and there were many. But do you really think it helps making things up about them?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Yadda on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 1:40pm

"Muslims who support the Taliban"

I would venture, that in their ranks, is almost every Sunni moslem who is resident in Australia.

The Taliban, are GOOD! moslems. .....by GOOD = = obedient to Allah's law.

.

QUESTION;
Why is it that only the 'GOOD' moslems, come into conflict with secular laws and with openly secular people, who openly promote the enjoyment of secular freedoms and rights ???

WWW search....
New Jersey: Imam says Muslims should reject “freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press”
By Robert Spencer on Feb 08, 2019
[because such freedoms always come into conflict with the social imperatives which are dictated by ISLAMIC law]

WWW search....
UK: Muslim man threatens Muslim woman for wearing Western clothing
By Christine Douglass-Williams on Mar 03, 2019
[coz, "ISLAM is the most feminist religion" - Yassmin Abdel-Magied]

WWW search....
[not in the West]
Afghanistan: Taliban “committed to all rights of women that have been given to them by the sacred religion of Islam”
By Robert Spencer on Feb 07, 2019
[which is - "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other..." ]

WWW search....
Germany: Muslim migrant who lied about being a “minor refugee” murders girlfriend for refusing to convert to Islam
By Robert Spencer on Feb 07, 2019
[because, ISLAM is peace]

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 8:04am

freediver wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 12:12pm:

I am yet to see a better one.

Personally I think just about anything would have been better than the horror that was unleashed by the invasion and overthrow. I'd be interested to know what your threshold limit of deaths and suffering is, or if you even have one, before you draw the line and say "you know, maybe 'sticking it to the muslims' on that occassion wasn't actually worth it"

Anyway, now that the US are now in direct high level negotiations with the taliban in Doha, it would seem that they are simply doing what they could and should have done 17 years ago - minus the invasion and 10s of thousands of dead...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/taliban-talks-resume-doha-2-day-break-190302130836669.html

Keeping in mind, this was the US approaching the taliban, something they could have done 17 years ago, but refused to - a belligerence some US officials themselves described as a "missed opportunity". As it turns out the taliban are actually quite open to compromise, even when they are on the ascendancy militarily, to the extent that they are reportedly even open to the idea of US troops remaining - :

Quote:

That seriousness was manifested through Taliban leaders showing pliability about the future of the U.S. troop presence. Despite their strident public position that U.S. troops must withdraw, the Taliban communicated to Raphel and Kolenda that there were circumstances under which they can envision living with a continued American military presence. And they again vowed that an Afghanistan open to Taliban political participation would not host a foreign terrorist presence, satisfying the central U.S. objective of the 17-year war.

Quote:

The Taliban’s public position is—and remains—that the foreign military occupation of Afghanistan must end as a precondition for negotiations. But privately, the Taliban indicated an extraordinary flexibility, and even a theoretical openness to a residual U.S. troop presence.

If the U.S.-backed Afghan government amended the constitution, opened up the political system, and accepted Taliban participation, the Taliban negotiators said, they would entertain the idea that the resulting government could invite U.S. forces to stay. Those American troops could continue training Afghan soldiers—including, hypothetically, ex-Taliban commanders. At that point, they said, it wouldn’t be an occupation. They were even open to hosting U.S. surveillance listening posts.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-secret-taliban-talks-to-end-americas-longest-war?ref=scroll

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 7:44am

Apparently this is Gandalf "not defending" the Taliban:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school, or getting shot for reading non-Quranic material if they were under 8 - under the taliban regime. How on earth was this not crystal clear from what I said FD?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 3:04pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 2:54pm:

Would you like to post the actual quote now?

sure...

Quote:

Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 2:51pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 12:29pm:

As far as I can tell, the whole thing is a lie. Where did you get it from?

Sorry FD, it was "risked", not "feared". You highlighted it in this post when I asked for evidence for the claim that executing little girls for attending school and reading non-Quranic material (if under 8). Needless to say it is entirely irrelevant for what I asked for.

Is that the basis of your accusation of lying?

Would you like to give me further lectures about pedantry?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 10^th, 2019 at 9:11am:

freediver wrote on Sep 9^th, 2019 at 6:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 9^th, 2019 at 2:40pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 3:13pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

Do you think Wikipedia is being misleading by saying they risked execution if it never happened at all?

Thats one of the more stupid comments in this discussion FD - and thats really saying something.

Wikipedia: vague statement about how girls "risked execution" if they attended school - without giving a single example of any such execution actually happening.

FD: therefore the taliban definitely had a 'widespread' and 'widely enforced policy' of lining up little girls and shooting them in the back of the head for attending school

Do you think Wikipedia is being misleading by saying they risked execution if it never happened at all?

not really.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

How can the majority of university graduates be female in a country that treats it's women just as bad as the Taliban?

Sad isn't it? They get all those qualifications, but can't do anything with them. You could almost say its a cruel joke - a cynical ploy to 'keep up appearances'. If only the taliban had the propaganda skills of the Saudis to hoodwink the useful idiots- not to mention have the vassalage of the US. Who knows, maybe even you would apologise for them.

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

Quote:

Women are prevented from a) getting a job outside the house and b) practically doing anything outside the home - just as they were under the taliban. Still, I'm sure they appreciate using their wonderful uni degrees to conduct philosophical debates with themselves safely shut away in their own home.

How do they get a university degree if they are shut away in their home?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:15am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 9:31am:

What didn't happen at all? Is this you "not defending" the Taliban?

During their rule 1996-2001, we know not a single case of a girl over 8 being executed by the taliban for attending school. And we know not a single case of a girl under 8 being executed by the taliban for reading non-Quranic material. You lied by not only saying it happened, but it was a "widespread" and "actively enforced policy". As I said, when you go for porkies, you sure do go big.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Do you think wikipedia was misleading people when they said that students and teachers risked death under the Taliban?

No. Do you think you were misleading by translating that as having a "widespread" and "actively enforced policy" of shooting toddlers in the back of the head for reading non-Quranic material?

You do concede that none of your sources even mention under 8s - let alone what they were executed for - right?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5^th, 2019 at 9:52am:

freediver wrote on Sep 4^th, 2019 at 5:52pm:

as if not getting a job after leaving Uni is just as bad as a bullet in the back of the head for attending primary school.

A bullet to the back of the head cetainly would be worse than being an unemployed uni graduate. Whoever said it wasn't FD?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 7:44am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

Why are you so eager to talk up the Taliban and talk down the Saudi administration? Is it because the Saudis decline to kill Americans at every opportunity?

Its not about talking one up, its about putting them both in their rightful place at the very bottom of the moral ladder. The taliban are scum, as are the Saudi regime. Personally I think they are as bad as each other, and its spineless apologism to say one is better than the other - in terms of their treatment of women. Not to mention a massive insult to Saudi women.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 8:31pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 7:32pm:

Yet here you are defending the Taliban

I have done nothing of the sort. I call out blatant transparent lies when I see them. Even when its levelled against a mob who are already terrible. And what you said FD, was a blatant, transparent lie - done in the name of cheerleading for warmongering. Warmongering that hurts your beloved Afghani women more than anyone else.

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 7:32pm:

You often go after the Saudis. I have never seen you make any effort to defend them.

The Saudis push school girls back into burning buildings because they are dressed immodestly. They behead maids who defend themselves against abusive masters. They export terrorists into Syria to slaughter christians and any other minority you can think of, and then send them money and weapons. But even worse than this, they wage actual genocide in Yemen, and routinely bomb schools and hospitals. 10s of thousands of Yemenis are now on the brink of starvation thanks to the Saudi led blockade. There is probably not a greater humanitarian disaster in the world today. The Saudis are an economic superpower in the region, and they, along with their rich Gulf puppets, are using their enormous wealth to fund terrorism and wage proxy wars against Iran - all over the region. They are a huge destabilising force in an already volatile region. They are, in short, an incredibly dangerous regime not just to their own people, but the entire region. There is no country in the world who needs to be called out for and criticised more than the Saudis - imo - literally for the sake of world peace.

But apparently you think we should just apologise for them.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2019 at 2:54pm:

Do you agree it would be pretty hilarious to describe FD's inventions about the taliban, along with his attempted deflections by pointing to completely irrelevant citations, as "honest discourse"?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 1:59pm

islam is a religion of peace.

Honest discourse?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 2:30pm

Christianity is supposedly a religion of peace.

Honest discourse?

Considering all the wars which have occurred between Christians and Christians and other religious beliefs, caused by Christians, I rather doubt it. 2019 years, supposedly since the death of Christ. Has one occured where a war has not been fought, somewhere, by Christians? ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Yadda on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 5:15pm

moses wrote on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 1:59pm:

islam is a religion of peace.

Honest discourse?

Shut up moses !

You do not have any right to judge ISLAM or the behaviour of moslems, or to place ISLAM and its precepts under open scrutiny.

Only the moslem [knowing his own fatih] has the right to speak, publicly, to what ISLAM is.

.

WWW search.....
United Nations seeks means, to make all criticism of ISLAM a crime

Renewed Efforts to Make Criticism of Islam an International Crime

.

"ISLAM ES PAZ"

IMAGE.....

Everyone knows that true ISLAM, is a religion of peace.

/sarc off

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 12:33pm

Congratulations FD, for once you didn't create a new and entirely unecessary thread for that quote bomb.

He's learning.

By the way, is there anything in those quotes of mine that you actually disagree with?

Anything at all?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Bias_2012 on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 2:33pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 2:30pm:

Considering all the wars which have occurred between Christians and Christians and other religious beliefs, caused by Christians, I rather doubt it. 2019 years, supposedly since the death of Christ. Has one occured where a war has not been fought, somewhere, by Christians? Roll Eyes

That's still no excuse for muslims to go around killing people - two wrongs don't make a right

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:05pm

Gandalf how do so many Saudi women get a university education while being shut away in their home?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:14pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 2:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21^st, 2019 at 2:30pm:

That's still no excuse for muslims to go around killing people - two wrongs don't make a right

Who is suggest it does - except you? ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:18pm

Brian merely insists he has no right nor ability to criticise Muslims or Muslim countries.

Isn't that right, Brian?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 10:00am

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:05pm:

Gandalf how do so many Saudi women get a university education while being shut away in their home?

They get to go to a female-only university strictly shut off from the outside world, shuttled to and from their house by a male escort of course.

Occassionaly the students get pushed back into burning buildings for being immodestly dressed

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 1:39pm

[sarc]Female muslim universities, all praises to allah, wouldn't they be bastions of free thought and speech.[/sarc]

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:51pm

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

Brian merely insists he has no right nor ability to criticise Muslims or Muslim countries.

Isn't that right, Brian?

You answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:52pm

[sarc]Female Christian universities, all praises to Christ, wouldn't they be bastions of free thought and speech?[/sarc]

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Bias_2012 on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 3:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:52pm:

[sarc]Female Christian universities, all praises to Christ, wouldn't they be bastions of free thought and speech?[/sarc]

More than likely they would be

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 4:30pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 3:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:52pm:

[sarc]Female Christian universities, all praises to Christ, wouldn't they be bastions of free thought and speech?[/sarc]

More than likely they would be

Except in reproductive rights, obedience to men, obedience to the clergy, etc. etc. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm

Gandalf do you think it is also misleading for wikipedia to say "They are burning down schools, killing students and teachers by all kinds of means, including chemical warfare" when it never actually happened?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:03pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:51pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

Brian merely insists he has no right nor ability to criticise Muslims or Muslim countries.

Isn't that right, Brian?

You answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours. ::)

Aaaaaaaaand hiiiiiss ooRFFF!!!!!!! - fappity, fap, clippity clop, fappity fap goes the "You answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours. ::)" loon while looking at the mail order doctorate framed on the wall.

Muddy pictures will be along shortly, with yawns and eye rolling: signs of Bwian's well-known, mighty intellectual labors.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:12pm

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:51pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

Brian merely insists he has no right nor ability to criticise Muslims or Muslim countries.

Isn't that right, Brian?

You answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours. ::)

Soren, as usual spreading his mud everywhere:

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 9:46pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:12pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:51pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

Brian merely insists he has no right nor ability to criticise Muslims or Muslim countries.

Isn't that right, Brian?

You answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours. ::)

Soren, as usual spreading his mud everywhere:

Posting pictures of gweggy now???

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 11:03pm

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 9:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:12pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:51pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

Brian merely insists he has no right nor ability to criticise Muslims or Muslim countries.

Isn't that right, Brian?

You answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours. ::)

Soren, as usual spreading his mud everywhere:

Posting pictures of gweggy now???

Soren, as usual spreading his mud everywhere:

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 12:51am

moses wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 1:39pm:

[sarc]Female muslim universities, all praises to allah, wouldn't they be bastions of free thought and speech.[/sarc]

They're not Muslims, Moses. They're Saudis, remember?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

All I said was it isn't evidence of how the taliban regime acted during their rule - 1996-2001.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Auggie on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 5:58pm

Isn't this all just semantics?

I could argue that the Nazis never had an 'actively enforced policy' of shooting girls in the back of the head during their 12 year reign. That is true.

It doesn't detract from the fact that they were still an evil regime.

Whether or not the Taliban shot girls in the back of the head as an actively enforced policy or not doesn't matter. What matters is that they're an evil regime.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:12pm

Quote:

They're not Muslims, Moses. They're Saudis, remember?

No no, they are the highest grade of muslims, moh / allah said so.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 12:08am

moses wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:12pm:

Quote:

They're not Muslims, Moses. They're Saudis, remember?

No no, they are the highest grade of muslims, moh / allah said so.

So you only support the highest grade?

Please explain. FD won't say.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 12:11am

Auggie wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 5:58pm:

Are you defending the Nazis here, Auggie? That's what G's doing with the Taliban.

The Saudis are okay. They don't have a rigidly enforced policy of shooting schoolgirls in the back of the head, you see.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Yadda on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:21am

Karnal wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 12:51am:

moses wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 1:39pm:

[sarc]Female muslim universities, all praises to allah, wouldn't they be bastions of free thought and speech.[/sarc]

They're not Muslims, Moses.

They're Saudis, remember?

.

moses wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:12pm:

Quote:

They're not Muslims, Moses. They're Saudis, remember?

No no, they are the highest grade of muslims, moh / allah said so.

.

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 12:08am:

So you only support the highest grade?

Please explain.

Easy, peasy......

QUESTION;
Who is a moslem ?
Who is a follower of ISLAM ?

EXPLANATION [...of who 'qualifies', as being a follower of ISLAM];

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

WWW search....
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."

CONCLUSION;
In Allah's eyes, any person who publicly makes the Shahada declaration, is a follower of ISLAM.

And, every a follower of ISLAM, is the highest grade of moslem.

How so ?

Allah, in his inerrant, faultless Koran declares EVERY moslem, to be a highly virtuous person,
in comparison, to any person who is not a believer.

STRAIGHT FROM ALLAH'S LIPS.....

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

See !

That was just too easy !

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

I see you're struggling with the fact that we were talking about the Taliban regime 1996-2001 and your alleged "actively enforced policy" of a) shooting over 8s for attending school and b) shooting under 8s for reading non-Quranic material (whatever happened to that by the way?).

Neither of these alleged activities happened.

The taliban insurgents post 2001 on the other hand do go around bombing schools and shooting Malala. No one is disputing that.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 3:46pm

abu wrote:
Quote:

So you only support the highest grade?

Please explain. FD won't say.

Me personally, I have no time for any of them, I thought that was rather obvious from my posts.

As to why the west maintains ties with the Saudis, I have said I don't know the political reasons this happens, but I would believe that in the world of muzzie insanity, the west works the ties with other nations in our best interests.

I certainly don't believe one word coming from the lips of our useful idiots, as I know that your desire is to bring us down from within.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 5:13pm

Moses personally, has no time for any of them, I'd have thought that was rather obvious from his posts.

As to why the west maintains ties with the Saudis, he has said he doesn't know the political reasons this happens, but he believes that in the world of Christian bigotry and insanity, the west works the ties with other nations in it's best interests.

I certainly don't believe one word coming from the lips of those useful fools like Moses, as I know that their desire is to foment conflict. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 11:03pm

moses wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 3:46pm:

abu wrote:
Quote:

So you only support the highest grade?

Please explain. FD won't say.

Sorry, Moses, you're not being clear, dear.

Are you denouncing the Saudis as the most despicable breed of human filth ever to walk the planet?

You haven't said. Cat got your tongue?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 11:06pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

How old? You're confusing 15 and 9 year olds in your Iran thread, dear.

Simple mistake to make, is it?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 10:54am

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

No FD, but please do continue deflecting.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 10:56am

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 11:06pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

How old? You're confusing 15 and 9 year olds in your Iran thread, dear.

Simple mistake to make, is it?

He might even be talking about the under 8s who were routinely executed for reading non-Quranic material. Though he's gone rather quiet on that particular claim .

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 4:17pm

Quote:

Sorry, Moses, you're not being clear, dear.

Are you denouncing the Saudis as the most despicable breed of human filth ever to walk the planet?

You haven't said. Cat got your tongue?

Well gee I thought that everybody would have picked up that I lump all muzzies in the one basket.

I have never seen one single muzzie who will denounce the depravity of their prophet and qur'an.

So one in all in for me.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 5:55pm

Well gee I thought that everybody would have picked up that I lump all Christians in the one basket.

I have never seen one single true Christian who will denounce the depravity of their brethren and the Bible.

So one in all in for me. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 5:59pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 10:54am:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

No FD, but please do continue deflecting.

So what caused them to suddenly start killing students, if they had never done it previously?

Do you have any evidence that it only started after 2001?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 28^th, 2019 at 12:59am

moses wrote on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 4:17pm:

Quote:

Sorry, Moses, you're not being clear, dear.

Are you denouncing the Saudis as the most despicable breed of human filth ever to walk the planet?

You haven't said. Cat got your tongue?

Do you want to be specific?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 28^th, 2019 at 3:07pm

1, one, singular basket.

Every muzzie (1.5 billion) on this planet is in it.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 28^th, 2019 at 7:22pm

1, one, singular basket.

Every Christian (2.18 billion) on this planet is in it. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 29^th, 2019 at 12:39am

moses wrote on Sep 28^th, 2019 at 3:07pm:

1, one, singular basket.

Every muzzie (1.5 billion) on this planet is in it.

So why do you defend the Saudis?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 29^th, 2019 at 2:35pm

Err please explain?

I very much doubt I have ever defended the Saudi muzzies.

I believe I have on a couple of occasions said, that I don't know exactly why the west is aligned with them in some issues, I also think I said something along the line of, I want my govt to do what is in my best interests.

The muzzies for mine are all just a bunch of devotees of a death / child sex cult.

I do not know of one single muslim who will denounce the depravity of mohs' deeds or his teachings in the qur'an.

If they support the cause and motivation for the putrid evil actions of islamic child sex and terrorism, they then by definition support the actual child sex / terrorism engendered.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 29^th, 2019 at 3:45pm

moses wrote on Sep 29^th, 2019 at 2:35pm:

You want your government to provide weapons and military training to a hard-core Muslim regime in order to expand their influence in the Middle East?

Saudi Arabia has no minimum age for marriage. It's citizens funded, planned and carried out Sept 11. It is currently expanding its brand of Islam all through Asia.

Sorry, dear, this doesn't make sense. Please explain?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 29^th, 2019 at 4:16pm

Oh dearie me, please desist from putting words into my mouth.

I want my govt to do what's the right thing for me.

I have no idea of the intricacies involved with diplomatic relations, I want my govt to do what's right for me.

All muzzies are death cult / child sex ideologues', from my perspective, however we have to have the best working relations possible with a mix of very facinorous backward (7th century) people.

It appears that the Saudis are what out govt has chosen, in my best interests I hope.

Now I know that the loony left will try all sorts of fake news, omission of facts, never giving the full story etc. etc. in their quest to bring us down from the inside.

So I take with a grain of salt any *facts* put up by the loony left.

The west is with the Saudis so we can only hope they have got it right.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 30^th, 2019 at 9:54am

moses wrote on Sep 29^th, 2019 at 4:16pm:

So you agree with this policy, do you?

And you want the "best working relations" with the most backward, inbred and terrorist Muselmen of all?

Dearie me, dear. Perhaps you'd prefer me to put words in your mouth. Your own words are spineless apologism of the most heinous kind.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Sep 30^th, 2019 at 2:54pm

abu:

Quote:

So you agree with this policy, do you?

Agree?

I endure our Govts decisions, I am not privy to the reasons they have made this decision, I just hope they do what is in my best interest.

Quote:

And you want the "best working relations" with the most backward, inbred and terrorist Muselmen of all?

I can't see any difference. Two groups of death cult people killing each other as their *holy* book dictates.

Quote:

Dearie me, dear. Perhaps you'd prefer me to put words in your mouth. Your own words are spineless apologism of the most heinous kind.

Coming from a loony left muslim hybrid?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Sep 30^th, 2019 at 5:49pm

moses wrote on Sep 30^th, 2019 at 2:54pm:

abu:

Quote:

So you agree with this policy, do you?

Agree?

I endure our Govts decisions, I am not privy to the reasons they have made this decision, I just hope they do what is in my best interest.

Right. So you agree. You don't huff and froth over Australia/US support for Saudi Arabia. You spinelessly "endure" it, just just living in hope, safe and comfortable that the Islamic apologists in Canberra will do what is in your best interest.

Do you hope they will keep Saudis out of Australia and the US? No. Hope they will give the Saudis a piece of your mind? No. Ban the Saudis squatting down to pee and playing with their dicks afterwards? No, no and no.

You support them. You live in hope that the Saudis will kill the right Yemenis with Uncle's bombs, that they will cut off the right journalists' heads with our ally's blessing, that they will fly planes into the right buildings next time they do a September 11, after being granted student visas to become pilots.

You support no change in policy on Saudi appeasement. You are, and it cannot possibly be denied, a cowering spineless apologist for Saudi rape, torture, murder and child abuse.

How does it feel?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 1^st, 2019 at 10:31am

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 5:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 10:54am:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

No FD, but please do continue deflecting.

So what caused them to suddenly start killing students, if they had never done it previously?

Do you have any evidence that it only started after 2001?

Oh look, we're yet again resorting to 'prove a negative' false logic. Really FD? Do you even listen to yourself?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 1^st, 2019 at 3:26pm

abu:

Quote:

It feels O.K., I snigger and sneer at all muzzies and muzzie doctrine.

Because to me all muzzies are as bad as each other.

Don't they all sit down to pee and play with their dicks afterwards?

They killed a journalist, because the qur'an says it perfectly o.k. to torture and kill a corrupter.

qur'an 5.33: Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

I believe the journalist was cut into little pieces and put through a machine which minced his entire corpse, 5.33.says it o.k. to cut em up.

When I see the muslims call for the renouncing and purging of the doctrine which spawns human rights atrocities, instead of worshiping it as the unchangeable and infallible words of allah, I will differentiate.

I have no regard for the bullshit of, it means something else etc. etc..

it means what it says

The qur'an was never meant to be anything other than a handbook for rape torture and mass murder in the establishment of the caliphate.

The jihadists are the highest grade of muslim, they are entitled to war booty, sex slaves and worldly riches, with the added enticement of, if they die in the push to spread islam they are assured a place in allahs' paradise, which in effect is a brothel staffed to overflowing with big breasted aliens and little boys.

So why the crap, both sides are as bad as one an another, the west deems one side (the Saudis) to be in our best interests, in order to keep some semblance of order in a putridly evil situation.

Get the muzzies to join the 21st century would be a good start, but the loony left and the muzzies don't want this.

Don't worry, when Iran builds their nuclear stockpile up a bit more, all hell will break loose, you may be glad of the Saudis then. (just my take on the way we are going)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 1^st, 2019 at 11:14pm

Moses, you admit that you are no more than a snivelling coward. You support the most devious, fundamentalist Muslim hypocrites on the planet.

It is because of apologists like yourself that global terrorism continues in the name of Moh. Cowering, spineless appeasers, all 3 of you.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 2^nd, 2019 at 10:18am

moses wrote on Oct 1^st, 2019 at 3:26pm:

It feels O.K., I snigger and sneer at all muzzies and muzzie doctrine.

Because to me all muzzies are as bad as each other.

Don't they all sit down to pee and play with their dicks afterwards?

Yes, but you previously put that down to being mentally disabled because of inbreeding.

How can you call people who are mentally disabled because of genetic defects "bad" moses? You used to at least pretend to take the maternalistic 'they need our help the poor creatures' view, pinning all the blame on the evil doctrine - patronising as it was.

Now you don't even attempt to hide your racism. You're a class act moses.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 3^rd, 2019 at 7:16pm

abu:

Quote:

Well spit three times and call me allah, both sides are the dregs from my perspective (they all believe in muslim supremacy, hatred rape torture and mass murder of the non believer or hypocrite corrupter muzzie), I hope my govt makes choices which are in my best interests, when dealing with them.

If I see a muzzie who will be honest and renounce the many evil deeds and teachings of muhammad, then declare moh is certainly no example for mankind today 2019, I will differentiate between the two groups.

Both groups commit the most heinous acts of depravity known to man, with the blessings of their qur'an.

islamic terrorism is part and parcel of islam, the only way to stop it is for the muzzies to be honest about the evil in their doctrine.

muzzies and their supporters all go to any lengths of deceit and lies to try and take the spotlight off the degeneracy of islam and muhammad.

They prefer the situation we have today of the never ending bloodshed death and destruction over being honest and telling the truth about islam allah muhammad and the qur'an.

muzzies are in the position of knowing to question and purge the evil of the qur'an would destroy islam, islam allah muhammad all got it wrong so the whole thing implodes, couldn't happen to nicer bunch as far as I'm concerned.

I prefer the death of islam and the ensuing peace, over retaining islam and the reoccurring bloodshed and depravity.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 3^rd, 2019 at 7:20pm

POLITE gandi:

Quote:

Oh dear oh me gandi, they all sit down to pee in order to emulate muhammad and stop getting the dreaded urine on themselves.

muslims most probably top the list globally for inbreeding and all the ensuant problems (physically and mentally).

The doctrine plus the desire to adulate and simulate muhammad most certainly is the root cause of all the muzzie problems.

It's unbelievable that islamic jurisprudence actually has rules and regulations on how to properly conduct sex with babies in nappies, based on how your *prophet* used to rape little girls.

You will keep going down hill gandi until you renounce muhammad and his qur'an, then islam will implode and that will be it.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 4^th, 2019 at 8:20am

moses wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2019 at 7:16pm:

abu:

Quote:

Oh no, you don't. You support the kingdom of Saudi Arabia because you trust it's in your "interests".

You can hum and ha and krap away about Islam all you like. As long as you personally support an Islamic kingdom being armed and backed on the UN Security Council, you're a squirming spineless apologist for Wahhabi Islam, sharia law and the hudud, not to mention the despots in charge.

Saudi Arabia and Iran are the only two Islamic regimes in the world who are committed to spreading their power and influence. Most Sept 11 terrorists were Saudis. Bin Laden himself was a well-connected Saudi. The Saudis use their oil wealth to fund extremist Islamic propaganda as close to our country as Indonesia and Brunei. They are an expansionist regime, currently bombing their neighbour Yemen with bombs our allies provide them.

And you turn a blind eye to all of it, apologising for it when the need arises.

I've been clear since Sept 11: our real foe in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia. You?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 4^th, 2019 at 3:37pm

Our real foe is the doctrine of islam as it presently stands.

The muzzies and their loony left supporters all know this but go to unbelievable lengths to hide this fact.

Why?

Because we all know, to honestly question and purge the evil in the doctrine of islam will destroy it in a heart beat (islam allah muhammad qur'an got it all wrong, so no more islam).

So you wriggle around desperately trying to shore up islam, as you see it as an ally in the fight to destroy white Christian western democracy from within.

Time will tell, but I know that the islamic cult of child sex, rape torture and death on all non believers / apostate corrupt believers, will eventually die.

You backed the wrong horse abu.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 5^th, 2019 at 12:49am

moses wrote on Oct 4^th, 2019 at 3:37pm:

And yet, you back the regime at the very source of Islam. Let me help you find a way to excuse your views, Moses.

It's political: the Saudis are a tribal fiefdom. They're just trying to hold power, that's all. Religion has nothing to do with it.

The Saddam excuse: the Middle East is a macho place. You have to show strength. If you don't, another tribe's going to walk all over you, it's just the way they are.

Oil: Someone has to keep the oil flowing. They have a duty to help keep the rest of the world burning. Even a blip in production sees oil prices soar. The Saudis are doing us all a favour. As Dick Cheney said, we can't play God, you have to work with what you've got. Only God decides who's ground he puts the oil under. Cheney said that before he invaded Iraq, but you get the idea.

Dollars: they have a lot of money invested in our banks, our mining and energy sectors. Take out Saudi investment and everyone takes a hit.

Lifestyle: the Saudis have luxurious tastes. They like to shop at Harrods and drive in Rolls Royces and gamble in all the best casinos. They're used to this. It would be unfair to say they shouldn't aspire to the very best. Everyone deserves a go.

The alternatives are far worse: the Saudis have played the Western powers off since Lawrence of Arabia. They know the game well. Who could replace them? The Muslim Brotherhood? Hezbollah? ISIS? It's worth copping a bit of Saudi-backed terrorism every now and then to keep them in power. In the grand scheme of things, the 3000 killed in Sept 11 was nothing. Sure they're duplicitous, sure they're backstabbers, but would you rather have a regime that's openly hostile?

They keep order: there's hardly any crime in Saudi Arabia. No one steals, no one walks out of a restaurant without paying the bill. Who's going to risk getting their hands chopped off? The odd beheading for adultery or whatever keeps people on their toes. There might be a few murders every now and then, but this is just the security forces tidying things up. You can't have dissent, you have to stay on top of things. If anything, we could borrow a few ideas from the Saudis ourselves.

The emerging democracy excuse: democracy takes time, you can't rush it. A free media, elections, voting rights, they all have to be nurtured and allowed to grow, which they inevitably will with free trade policies in place. This is FD's old argument. He gave it up when he decided Iraq could be the next South Korea thanks to foreign intervention. We don't want to do this with the Saudis, right? It wouldn't be fair.

The Brian excuse: we make no excuses for those nations and their laws. We merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but we also recognise we have no right or ability to criticise them. We are neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

The Moses excuse: we must put our trust in our government to protect our interests. We don't have all the facts. If this means following every US foreign policy to the letter, so be it. If it means assisting them in their wars and incursions, every little bit helps. It's bi-partisan policy so it's hardly going to change, and anyway, what right do we have to question our government?

The FD excuse: look at the Taliban.

You've already used some of these, Moses, but feel free to pick and choose from these ones whenever you want to defend the Saudis. You can't say I don't try to help you out.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 5^th, 2019 at 3:57pm

islam in the 21st century is the dregs of humanity.

muslims top the list globally right now in: terrorism, refugee, child slaughter, child sexual abuse, civil war, human rights abuses etc. problems.

There is nothing good to show from muslims in the 21st century.

It's a fact of life that the rest of us have to interact with them as best we can.

Governments pick and choose their level of interaction as the various situations arise.

Naturally I want them to do what is in my best interests when dealing with a bunch of backward 7th century retards.

If ever I see a muzzie be honest and renounce and decry the evil of muhammads deeds and teachings, I will differentiate between them.

Until that day arrives, every single one of them is just as bad as another.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 5^th, 2019 at 4:24pm

moses wrote on Oct 5^th, 2019 at 3:57pm:

That's true, Moses. Uncle is selling the Saudis weapons to keep the civil war in the country next door going. Do you trust this is in your interests?

How about defending them when they kill journalists in broad daylight? How about imposing sanctions on their rivals when their rivals sell cheap oil and bring the global price down? How about training their security forces so they can arrest women trying to flee the country from violent marriages?

I see what you mean, dear. You make no excuses for those nations and their laws. You merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but you also recognise you have no right or ability to criticise them. You are neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

You merely trust our governments to do what is in your best interests and pick and choose their level of interaction as the various situations arise, no?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 8:23am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 1^st, 2019 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 5:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2019 at 10:54am:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 8:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

It did happen FD, who said it didn't? Not me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

What didn't happen at all?

girls getting shot for attending school

So America caused the Taliban to start shooting girls?

No FD, but please do continue deflecting.

So what caused them to suddenly start killing students, if they had never done it previously?

Do you have any evidence that it only started after 2001?

Oh look, we're yet again resorting to 'prove a negative' false logic. Really FD? Do you even listen to yourself?

You made a positive and rather specific statement about when the killing started. What makes you think the killing only started after 2001? The only reason I can think of is that it is a convenient way for a Muslim to defend fellow Muslims doing what Islam does. Does your statement have any basis in fact, or did you just make it up? Does your religion compel you to reflexively defend even the most barbaric Islamic rule?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 2:07pm

abu wrote:

Quote:

That's true, Moses. Uncle is selling the Saudis weapons to keep the civil war in the country next door going. Do you trust this is in your interests?

How about defending them when they kill journalists in broad daylight? How about imposing sanctions on their rivals when their rivals sell cheap oil and bring the global price down? How about training their security forces so they can arrest women trying to flee the country from violent marriages?

I see what you mean, dear. You make no excuses for those nations and their laws. You merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but you also recognize you have no right or ability to criticize them. You are neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

You merely trust our governments to do what is in your best interests and pick and choose their level of interaction as the various situations arise, no?

Yeah the muzzies love to kill each other don't they, qur'an says to kill hypocrite muzzies.

The journalist was probably considered a corrupter by the Saudis so torture and cut him up, o.k in qur'an.

All other perversions the muzzies are committing on a daily basis all can be excused by the qur'an.

islam is a depraved sick ideology with child sex, rape, torture and mass murder all being the norm for the believers.

They all live by and enact the 7th century evil teachings of muhammad as being the infallible unchangeable words of their reinvented moon god allah.

Until I see muzzies renounce and purge the evil in their doctrine as being totally malefic ideology, then I lump all muzzies in the one basket.

It's all up to the muzzies to remove the evil from their *religion*.

I continually call for this to happen, it's the muzzies and their loony left supporters who are fighting against it.

So come on abu, call for a questioning and purging of the evil in the qur'an, (or are you going to wriggle around trying to excuse it?)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 4:02pm

moses wrote on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 2:07pm:

abu wrote:

Quote:

That's true, Moses. Uncle is selling the Saudis weapons to keep the civil war in the country next door going. Do you trust this is in your interests?

How about defending them when they kill journalists in broad daylight? How about imposing sanctions on their rivals when their rivals sell cheap oil and bring the global price down? How about training their security forces so they can arrest women trying to flee the country from violent marriages?

I see what you mean, dear. You make no excuses for those nations and their laws. You merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but you also recognize you have no right or ability to criticize them. You are neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

You merely trust our governments to do what is in your best interests and pick and choose their level of interaction as the various situations arise, no?

So why do you support the Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 4:48pm

Support?

I would hardly call my feelings support.

Common sense dictates that the nations of the globe have to achieve some sort of working relationship with each other.

My govt interacts with muslims, just as we do with the Chinese, Russians, Nth Koreans etc.

Them and other equally obnoxious nations are all players on the world stage, who are worked with by the west.

I merely hope my govt. does what is in my best interests, when conducting their business with the objectionable elements on the world stage.

All muzzies are equally as bad as each other in my book, I don't *support* any of them. I continually call for them to reform their doctrine of evil (islam). This as I've often said will actually destroy islam, then there will be major changes in the way the present day muslims conduct themselves.

So support? NO.

Interact through my govt.? Yes.

Constantly call for them to advance into the 21st century, to own question and purge their death cult evils? Yes.

Do I know this will destroy islam and their 1400 year old death cult culture? Yes.

So come on abu decry the evils in the doctrine of islam, stop making excuses.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 9:17pm

moses wrote on Oct 6^th, 2019 at 4:48pm:

Right. So join us in condemning the Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Speak up against your government's actions in supporting, aiding and arming this regime.

You're more than happy to condemn the Taliban, Indonesia, even the secular rule of Saddam. Here's your chance to speak out against the Saudis.

Will you do it?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 7^th, 2019 at 3:02pm

It's not only the Saudis, the islamic world is saturated with purveyors of human rights atrocities, they're the core values of islam.

The answer lies in all muslims being honest and owning and purging the filth and depravity in their qur'an, which engenders all the inhumane depravities being carried out by the muslims globally.

1400 years of islam has put the muslims at the very bottom of the societal scale.

The one way up for the muslims is to be honest about the degenerate ways and teachings of muhammad.

Until this happens there will always be bloodshed death and destruction in the lands of the muslim, that is their qur'an taught trademark.

Honesty will destroy islam in a heartbeat, however I simply don't care if the satanic death cult implodes and disappears, as this will stop the inhumane human rights abuses taking place right now.

The people who oppose this (loony leftards & muslims) all prefer the death bloodshed and destruction over islam dying in its' tracks.

Kids are dying abu because you and yours all are too proud to admit you backed the wrong horse.

islam is the cause and motivation, pure and simple.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 7^th, 2019 at 5:02pm

So why do you "trust your government" to support them? If what you said is true, you'd be all over your government.

Saudi Arabia is one of only 2 Islamicist sharia regimes in the world. And you trust your government to support them?

Your entire argument is crushed.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 8^th, 2019 at 11:35pm

Oh dearie dearie me, tsk tsk.

Facts are that nations have to interact on the world stage, which in turn means that we have to deal with some nefarious countries in this reciprocal way of conducting our daily world affairs.

The communists and muslims are some of the most obnoxious peoples we have to deal with.

They are all evil depraved people that we have to have these relations with.

I most certainly hope my govt does what is in my best interests when dealing with the sick elements of the world.

In the case of the muzzies, killing each other is part of mohs teachings, he had to keep the back sliders in place, no better way to do this, than to preach that allah wanted his higher grade of muzzies to torture and kill those they considered hypocrites and corrupters.

Now the muzzies don't have an over abundance of grey matter, they are way too stupid to see that their problems all come from the qur'an, so they instead worship moh qur'an and allah, as being the ultimate in divine guidance for mankind.

Well we can see the results of that logic, can't we?

muzzies top the list of global terrorists, they kill their own kids in the 100s of 1000s through malnutrition and refugee trauma, they are the worlds refugee problem, they have destroyed the homelands and birth place of islam, they are unable to live in peace with people of other beliefs, they actually have doctrinal decrees giving the O.K. to sex with little girls in nappies, because moh showed by divine example how to do it.

They are one sick depraved group of people.

That being said, until the truth finally is allowed to prevail (which will destroy islam), we have to deal with these sickos.

So for mine all I want is for my govt to make the choices which are in my best interests.

When I see muzzies renounce and purge the evil deeds and teachings of islam, then I will differentiate between them, until that day comes, they are all in the one basket, for mine.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 7:41am

How does arming and backing a country that spreads the most backward fundamentalist brand of Islam to our neighbouring countries support your interests, Moses?

I'm not even curious. You don't care. By supporting the Saudis as s geopolitical power, your argument is shown to be hypocritical at best. At worst, it shows you want this form of Islam spread around the world.

Ban Islam? You back it all the way.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:00pm

I am not privy to the details as to why my Govt have the relations they have with the Saudis.

I'm hoping that it is in my best interests.

muzzies killing each other is quid pro quo in the backward muzzie lands.

This will never change till we have honesty on the part of the muslims, regarding the filth and depravity in the doctrine of islam and the deeds of the old thief liar pedophile rapist torturer and mass murderer muhammad.

muzzies can kill each other as the qur'an decrees, I hope my govt does whatever is in my best interests, when dealing with the 7th century backwardness of muslims as a whole.

The answer to all their problems is to simply be honest, then renounce and purge the evil in the teachings and deeds of moh.

We are up against the loony left - muslim duo, in this regard, as both of you want to maintain islam as it is now, replete with child sex, thieving lying rape torture and mass murder.

Me I call for them to question honestly their doctrine and deeds of muhamad, truth will destroy islam in a flash, but I care not, as the world will be a better place with islam dead in its' tracks.

Time will tell it all.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm

I am not privy to the details as to why my Govt have the relations they have with the Saudis. They do it, I suppose 'cause the Saudis are filthy rich and want to buy stuff.

I'm hoping that it is in my best interests.

Christians killing others is quid pro quo in the backward campaigns they conduct in foreign lands.

This will never change till we have honesty on the part of the Christians, regarding the filth and depravity in the doctrine of Christianity and the deeds of the old thief liar and mass murderer Jesus and his followers.

Christians can kill others as the Bible decrees, I hope my govt does whatever is in my best interests, when dealing with the zero century backwardness of Christians as a whole.

The answer to all their problems is to simply be honest, then renounce and purge the evil in the teachings and deeds of Jesus and his followers.

We are up against the loony Right - Christian duo, in this regard, as both of you want to maintain Christianity as it is now, replete with child molestation, thieving lying rape torture and mass murder.

Me I call for them to question honestly their doctrine and deeds of Jesus and his followers, truth will destroy Christianity, the Opiate of the Masses, in a flash, but I care not, as the world will be a better place with Christianity dead in its' tracks.

Time will tell it all. Honesty will end the blight that is religion in our world. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:52pm

You're not privy to the details of Iran or the Taliban either, Moses. That doesn't stop you chiming in with bile and Jihadwatch quotes and statistics.

This is because you don't really care about Islam at all. Your "criticism" of Islam is based entirely on your stance on the inbred retards who squat down to per and play with their dicks afterwards.

I.e, Arabs. And you don't like them because they're tinted.

You are not privy to the details, you are hoping your government is acting in your interest - the most spineless, greasy statement I've read here in a while.

Why don't you just grow a spine and admit it? You don't want to ban Islam, you want to ban the tinted races.

And you support the Saudis to kill em all, let God sort em out.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 3:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:

What do you think of the Saudis, Brian?

This is a regime that has no age of consent, that amputates people's hands for theft, that beheads them for adultery. And that's just what they do legally.

Do you support them because you're not privy to the details? Because you hope your government is acting in your interests? Because they're helping to kill off the tinted races in Yemen?

You're rumoured to be a bit of a spineless apologist, dear, so I'm curious what you think of Western support for such a diabolical regime. Thoughts?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:07pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 3:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:

Personally, I find it reprehensible but I can understand the reasons why, unlike Moses. Saudi Arabia controls a large slice of the oil pie and the West is very dependent on oil as a major energy resource. No oil equals no economic activity. I wonder whether Moses likes to jump into his car after he's filled it up with petrol which is of course, derived from oil?

I find many of the habits of the Saudis terrible but I can also understand that they are essentially a tribal society with an overlay of modern sensitivities. They are only slowly coming to terms with the early 20th century and so have a long way to go with the 21st a hundred years ahead of them. I'm sure they'll get to it eventually, say in another century or so? ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:39pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 3:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:

Sure, but does any of this excuse a tyrannical regime? They recently beheaded someone who was caught protesting - when he was 17.

These are hardly cultural practices, dear, they're political. They're about maintaining power at all costs. MBS is so brazen he'll have his henchmen take out an opponent in a foreign embassy. Saudi officials will even step in to detain Saudi women fleeing their husbands at foreign airports.

Embracing this as somehow in "my interests" has to be the most cynical spineless apologism yet. Is speaking out against the more devious Saudi actions going to cause an oil crisis? Is it going to tip the Middle-Eastern power balance in favour of Iran? Scare off investors for a planned Trump hotel in Mecca?

But start a thread on "Muslims who support the Taliban" and it's open-season on Muslim apologists. How very dare you.

So here's your opportunity to unequivocally condemn the Saudi regime and the politics of blood, Brian. Moses is too scared to do it. FD bailed long ago. What say you?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm

Good to see Paki and Bwian arguing a little. Progress is divergent, innit. Nobody know where they are progressing to.

Islamic regimes are an abomination in a connected world. We should either un-connect them or make them catch up.

But Islam - or religion - is not the ace in international relations. There are other consideration, like oil and energy, industry, borders, national interests. The US and Australia are far less dependent on Saudi oil than 30-40 years ago but disrupting the supply of energy to the rest of the world is not in anyone's interest. So Islam, religion, political philosophy, human rights, internal oppression are important but are not the only consideration in international relations and never the main ones.

Now carry on with your feud about faux-sensibilities.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:44pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 3:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:

I don't excuse them, Abu, mate. I attempt to understand them. I am not going to change them by protesting outside their embassy (I'm not going inside, I can assure you!). Something that Moses doesn't appear to recognise with his ineffectual mewling and whinging and whining. With understanding comes a better realisation of what they are capable of. Tribal societies owe their allegiances first and foremost to their tribe and the Sauds are particularly bitter towards anybody who turns against them. We should not turn our back on them but attempt to convince them of the errors of their ways.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:47pm

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Good to see Paki and Bwian arguing a little.

We are not arguing. We are discussing, Soren. Something you and Moses appear incapable of understanding. ::)

Quote:

The US and Australia are far less dependent on Saudi oil than 30-40 years ago

The US perhaps so. Australia? We are more dependent on foreign sources of oil than we were 30-40 years ago. We have no strategic oil reserves and are very dependent on the international market for our oil supplies. We have shut down most of our oil refineries because the Government didn't stop the oil companies deciding it was more economic to refine our oil in Indonesia. Tsk, tsk, thats capitalism for you. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 6:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Good to see Paki and Bwian arguing a little.

We are not arguing. We are discussing, Soren. Something you and Moses appear incapable of understanding. ::)

Quote:

The US and Australia are far less dependent on Saudi oil than 30-40 years ago

Saudi oil was the point I was making, my myopic, brainless little gnome.

Carry on irregardless, as you always do, Bwian. Oblivious is your middle name.

Your first name, actually. Oblivious Ross.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 7:08pm

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 6:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Good to see Paki and Bwian arguing a little.

We are not arguing. We are discussing, Soren. Something you and Moses appear incapable of understanding. ::)

Quote:

The US and Australia are far less dependent on Saudi oil than 30-40 years ago

Saudi oil was the point I was making, ~~my myopic, brainless little gnome.~~

Carry on irregardless, as you always do, Bwian. Oblivious is your middle name.

Your first name, actually. Oblivious Ross.

As usual, playing in the mud again, Soren? Tsk, tsk. I really don't know why you bother. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 7:13pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 6:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Good to see Paki and Bwian arguing a little.

We are not arguing. We are discussing, Soren. Something you and Moses appear incapable of understanding. ::)

Quote:

The US and Australia are far less dependent on Saudi oil than 30-40 years ago

As usual, playing in the mud again, Soren? Tsk, tsk. I really don't know why you bother. ::)

I bother because you are a mindless idiot, Bwian, and I don't want you to get away with it. 'Social' media is infested with mongs like you and there MUST be some small voice, here and there, pushing back against your godawful tide of shite and frikking idiocy.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 8:58pm

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 7:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 6:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Good to see Paki and Bwian arguing a little.

We are not arguing. We are discussing, Soren. Something you and Moses appear incapable of understanding. ::)

Quote:

The US and Australia are far less dependent on Saudi oil than 30-40 years ago

As usual, playing in the mud again, Soren? Tsk, tsk. I really don't know why you bother. ::)

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Still spreading your mud everywhere, Soren? Tsk, tsk. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 9:00pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 3:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:

Would that be "in our interests"?

Or do you think we should sell them 4 bil worth of bombs instead?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 9:03pm

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Sorry, old boy, did we just hear you screech in support of the most cunning Islamicist regime on the planet?

We didn't quite catch you, dear. Faulty colon, I would imagine.You are saying we should forgive the most backward, tinted, towel-headed bearded numptie of the lot, yes?

Brian, you may well have a disciple here. Looks like you've won one over in the name of colonic universal harmony. With Moses, that's two.

FD, of course, has long gone.

Anyone for cricket?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 7:18am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 4:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 3:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:

On oil, Iraq and Iran have similar reserves to the Saudis. And what does Uncle do?

Invades Iraq and sanctions Iran. These actions result in the rise of Iranian influence in Iraq, the formation of ISIS, Iran's return to developing nukes, and now, Iran threatening the security of shipping in the Persian Gulf.

The Saudis are being armed to counter the influence of Iran. If this was just about oil, surely you'd aim for peace. Under Obama's deal, Iran showed they were more than willing to play ball.

But alas, during that "free trade" period, Iran sold cheap oil, thus threatening Uncle's own oil profits. What to do? Put the sanctions back on.

The 70s oil shocks were a response to Israeli expansion. The oil States wanted Israel to return the territory seized in the 67 war, so they stalled production and raised the global oil price, causing the first recession in the post-war period. What does Uncle do?

Gives Israel all the arms it needs, including nukes. Vetoes all UN demands on Israel on the Security Council. And finally, moves the US embassy to occupied Jerusalem, thus justifying Israel's illegally held territory.

And Australia votes on the UN exactly how Uncle does, as is Australia's bi-partisan foreign policy.

Still, we don't have all the details. We hope our government will protect our interests, no?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 4:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:44pm:

I don't excuse them, Abu, mate.

Says Bwian, dropping his twousews with nervous excitement...

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 5:05pm

abu wrote: Reply #192 - Yesterday at 2:52pm

Quote:

You're not privy to the details of Iran or the Taliban either, Moses. That doesn't stop you chiming in with bile and Jihadwatch quotes and statistics.

The qur'an is the root cause and motivation for all the degeneracy perpetrated by muslims around the globe.

All muslims believe that the filth and depravity in the qur'an is infallible and unchangeable.

If they support the cause and motivation they support the engendered degeneracy of the islamic world.

All muzzies are the enemy of truth and freedom.

Quote:

This is because you don't really care about Islam at all. Your "criticism" of Islam is based entirely on your stance on the inbred retards who squat down to per and play with their dicks afterwards.

I.e, Arabs. And you don't like them because they're tinted.

Oh boy the fallaciousness of the muslim - loony leftard hybrid is always there.

I don't like islam because it's a cult of muslim supremacy, child sex, rape, torture and mass murder.

Quote:

You are not privy to the details, you are hoping your government is acting in your interest - the most spineless, greasy statement I've read here in a while.

Why don't you just grow a spine and admit it? You don't want to ban Islam, you want to ban the tinted races.

And you support the Saudis to kill em all, let God sort em out.

The crap that flows from the loony leftard - muslim hybrid is astoundingly stupid to say the least.

Of course we all want the govt to act in our best interests.

I continually call for muslims to be honest and to question renounce and purge the evil in their doctrine and the deeds of muhammad.

I am fully aware that this will destroy islam in a heartbeat (islam allah muhammad and qur'an got it all wrong, so islam simply implodes).

That is why you snivel around always trying to take the spotlight away from the call for muslims to be honest so that they can overcome all their problems. (you prefer the present day existence of islam and all the child sex, terrorism, rape, torture and mass murder, over islam imploding and the depravity ending).

So the muzzies will keep on killing each other, that's a given, as the qur'an decrees it.

The muzzie has two choices:

1/. Keep following the qur'an and muhammads example, which means the killing etc. simply keeps on keeping on.

2/. Start being honest, question renounce and purge the depravity in the qur'an, which means islam is destroyed but the senseless child sex, rape, torture and mass murder will eventually stop

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 5:11pm

Here's you hoping your government acts in your interests and backs the Saudis against Iran (nuffin to do wiv Islam):

moses wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 2:04pm:

Quote:

No, Moses, but they are committed to giving Israel back to the Palestinians if you believe what they say.

Do you support the Saudis yourself?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 5:15pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 9:03pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Delirious crap. Take Bwian out of your mouth and try again.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 5:30pm

Abu:
Quote:

Here's you hoping your government acts in your interests and backs the Saudis against Iran (nuffin to do wiv Islam):

Here for your sake I reiterate:
Quote:

I'm convinced that islam is one queer, evil, dangerous death cult.

The nut jobs in Iran must be curtailed when it comes to nuclear power.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 7:04am

Frank wrote on Oct 10^th, 2019 at 5:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 9:03pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2019 at 5:38pm:

Delirious crap. Take Bwian out of your mouth and try again.

Thanks, dear boy, I will.

You and Moses have joined Brian in your most squishy mendacious excercise in spineless calisthenics yet. You put your support behind the most backward tinted inbred of the lot. It's uncanny how you all fall into line at once. Looks like we can finally answer FD's question about jellyfish.

Not you, old boy. No speaka da English, remember. Stick with that.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 2:52pm

islam is on the slippery slope of self destruction.

Based on the rantings of a lunatic thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer, islam is the mirror image of the inner self of muhammad (utter evilness).

The state of the islamic world right now testifies to this fact.

Change means islam dies, there can be no stopping of the depravity of islam without change, so it's a sure bet, islam is in its' death throes, it just remains to be seen, how low and sick the loony leftards will stoop in the defence of this dying putridly evil ideology.

bye bye blackbird.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 3:17pm

Christianity is on the slippery slope of self destruction.

Based on the rantings of a lunatic bully and his followers who tend to be thieves, liars, pedophiles, rapists, torturers and mass murderers, Christianity is the mirror image of the inner self of it's followers who are utter evilness.

The state of the Christian world right now testifies to this fact.

Change means Christianity is dying, there can be no stopping of the depravity of Christianity without change, so it's a sure bet, Christianity is in its' death throes, it just remains to be seen, how low and sick the loony Rightards will stoop in the defence of this dying putridly evil ideology. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 7:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 3:17pm:

Unimaginative, spluttering dickheaddle. Yes, you, Bwian. You would die before you had an original idea.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 10:01pm

Frank wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 7:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 3:17pm:

~~Unimaginative, spluttering dickheaddle. Yes, you, Bwian. You would die before you had an original idea.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. It seems you're quite willing to put up with "dickheaddie" when it comes from Moses, Soren 'cause those words are virtually an exact copy from Moses'. Tsk, tsk, how typical of a bigot not to recognise his own side's argument used against him. ::) ::)

You keep playing in your mud patch, little laddie. You enjoy yourself. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 8:24am

Talk amongst yourselves, boys.

Quote:

Pentagon sends new wave of troops to Saudi Arabia even as Trump calls for ending wars

The Pentagon is sending a fresh wave of troops to Saudi Arabia to help defend the kingdom against Iran, despite President Donald Trump’s repeated pledges to end the U.S. military's commitments in the Middle East.

“I have ordered the deployment to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia of two additional fighter squadrons and supporting personnel,” including two batteries of soldiers manning Patriot air-defense missiles and another Army unit manning a larger air-defense missile system, Defense Secretary Mark Esper told reporters at the Pentagon today.

Wesley Morgan, Politico.

I blame Islam, no?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 10:45am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 10:01pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 7:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 3:17pm:

~~Unimaginative, spluttering dickheaddle. Yes, you, Bwian. You would die before you had an original idea.~~

'cause those words are virtually an exact copy from Moses'. Tsk, tsk, how typical of a bigot not to recognise his own side's

EXACTLY, Salvatore - you would die before you had your own original ideas. You copy with just enough distortion and lies to be tru to yourself.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 10:59am

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 10:45am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 10:01pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 7:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2019 at 3:17pm:

~~Unimaginative, spluttering dickheaddle. Yes, you, Bwian. You would die before you had an original idea.~~

'cause those words are virtually an exact copy from Moses'. Tsk, tsk, how typical of a bigot not to recognise his own side's

EXACTLY, Salvatore - you would die before you had your own original ideas. You copy with just enough distortion and lies to be tru to yourself.

Spoken by the creature that continually resorts to ad hominem debate, right, hey, Soren? ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:59pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

~~You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 4:43pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

You'd overthrow the Chinese Communist Party in a nanosecond, old boy. You supported the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. You said we should carpetbomb Iran, Syria, Yemen, Labia, even Turkey if I remember rightly.

Colonialism ended too soon, remember?

So what is it about the Saudis that you find so endearing?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:01pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

Thank you for lying, thank you for being true to yourself at least in that single respect.

Would YOU want to go to war with the Saudis to save the Yemenis? The Iranians? For what reason would YOU want to go to war with the Saudis, stupid? You wouldn't. So does than mean you find them endearing?? No. It means you are just a mindless kibitzing idiot, like Bwain.

Re war - What I said and maintain is that ONCE you go to war you must win it which happens when the enemy know it's beaten. And IF you are not prepared to kill them until they know they are beaten then there is no point in going to war.

Colonialism and its civilising and pacifying efforts certainly ended way too soon and in the latter effect (not the former) I include the end of the Ottoman colonial rule over Muslims. There was no civilising happening there but at least they were kept under check. No longer. SO now we have uncivilised brutality raging in the name of self-determination, with millions fleeing in all direction.

The shitholes of the world are ex-colonies who are simply unable to make a go of a viable society by their own efforts and at the light of their own ideas of who and what they are. And curiously, if that's the word I want, the darker they are the more hideous is the society they have created for themselves.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

~~You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::)

F off, loon.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:45pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

~~You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::)

~~F off, loon.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Abu on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 10:11pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

No one's calling to invade the Saudis, you spineless, po-faced cadaver. We're watching your squishy, handwringing, yeah-but-no-butting attempts to carpetbomb every Arab/Negroid sub-breed except the Saudis.

You've salivated here at the very thought of nuking the Middle East (and inexplicably, Indonesia), but you draw a radioactive-free line around Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Kill em all, just leave the Joos and towel-heads alone. Peace.

Here you are in this very thread making up porkies to excuse the House of Saud. If Uncle ever changes his mind and decides to stab them in the back, you'll join in that as well. You'd turn on the Joos too. The Kurds - poof.

Ask your pharmacist for a decent laxative. See an erectile dysfunction specialist. We all know you have no spine, but you should at least be able to get a hardon from time to time, even if you are dead.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Karnal on Oct 26^th, 2019 at 3:08pm

I say. Y's been on a bit of a Jihadwatch workout.

Burning the midnight oil, are we?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Oct 26^th, 2019 at 3:56pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 10:11pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

You are lying even when you inhale, Paki, let alone when you speak. You have been spending too much time with Muslims, you have the same hyperventilating, over-the-top delivery about all your feelings (resentment, anger) without ever being able to actually provide a coherent argument. All the Arabs, Pakis, North Koreans, Chinese - all the enemies of humanity - speak in this manner.

Breathless emoting is ALL.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 2:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 1:46pm:

Just like you hysterically label my calling out your bald faced lies about Afghanistan as me supporting the taliban.

I have quotes.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 1:27pm

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 2:36pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 1:46pm:

Just like you hysterically label my calling out your bald faced lies about Afghanistan as me supporting the taliban.

I have quotes.

No you don't FD. There is not a single quote in this thread of me supporting the taliban, just your bs paraprhasing. You have no quotes because there are no quotes. Had you actually used quotes it would have been clear I am not supporting the taliban (as I pointed out repeatedly in the thread you linked).

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 1:34pm

Were the Taliban an effective and stable government?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:02pm

;D and you actually think that saying so is supporting them? Hillarious.

The nazis were effective and stable too. In fact most brutal and appalling regimes are. The thing that makes them appalling is the same thing that makes them effective and stable.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:08pm

I notice you didn't answer the question.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:57pm

I did FD, I said they were effective and stable. Pretty obviously too.

I also pointed out that other objectionable regimes like the Nazis were also effective and stable - thus hinting pretty clearly that labelling something effective and stable should not be interpreted as supporting them.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 4:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:57pm:

What's unislamic about the Taliban ( ie the Students of Islam)?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 6:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:57pm:

Were they willing to assist the US to invade Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 7:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:57pm:

It is hugely telling that the sons of Mohammed are deaf and blind to the very ready analogy they themselves perceive between Nazis ('worst kind of oppressive, blinkered, dogmatic arseholes') and their own strict adherents to the epileptic spouting of Mohammed.

Very revealing of the Mohammedan psychology. Even YOU know that you are oppressive, dictatorial arseholes.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 8:10pm

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

~~You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::)

~~F off, loon.~~

Run along back to your favourite mud patch, Soren. It is where you belong.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 8:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

~~You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::)

~~F off, loon.~~

Run along back to your favourite mud patch, Soren. It is where you belong.

Cheeses!!! Not YOU, bloody loon!!!!

Woken up???? Yawned enough??

Bloody ijit.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 9:52pm

Frank wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 8:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 5:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2019 at 3:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Not at all, FD. I believe it was the Foreign Affairs journal that made that claim.

But I'm curious. Why do you support the Saudi Regime?

Will you answer?

I dont support the Saudi regime.

I dont support the Chinese regime either, or the EU regime, for that matter. None of this means that I want to, thereby, overthrow each.

But you want to overthrow your adopted regime, don't you, Soren? You hate Australia with it's wholesale adoption of Multiculturalism... ::)

~~You are an idiot, Bwian, f off.~~

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Spreading your mud everywhere, hey, Soren? It's the truth though, isn't it? You do want to overthrow the regime in Oz, don't you? Tsk. tsk. ::)

~~F off, loon.~~

Run along back to your favourite mud patch, Soren. It is where you belong.

Cheeses!!! Not YOU, bloody loon!!!!

Woken up???? Yawned enough??

Bloody ijit.

Stop playing in the mud, Soren. Tsk, tsk. Your nursemaid will be upset when she calls to collect you from the little kiddies' playground...

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 11:11am

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 6:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:57pm:

Were they willing to assist the US to invade Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden?

Feel free to read up on everything I said on the matter FD. There is absolutely no point in me repeating what I've already said. You went to the bother of linking the relevant thread. Strange though that for once you don't spam us with your usual quote bombs. Rather telling I would say.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 11:25am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 11:11am:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 6:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:57pm:

Were they willing to assist the US to invade Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden?

My apologies, I forgot how hard it was to get a straight answer out of you.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 12:18pm

FD you managed about 40 pages of "I already said it - go back and read it" in the Ahok thread.

At the very least don't be a hypocrite now.

You have the thread, you even linked it - why not just go back and look up my answers to the exact same questions you are asking now? What benefit do you think there is in making me repeat myself?

This just looks really awkward for you - almost like you know my actual answers will expose your BS smears against me for what they are - and so you want them to remain buried in the other thread that you know no one will bother checking.

Funny thing is, bombing us with apparently incriminating gandalf quotes has never been a problem for you before - whats wrong this time FD?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 12:30pm

I thought it would be easier to get you to confirm the basic points. Also, you get terribly upset when I quote bomb you. I guess either way we get your tapdancing.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by PZ547 on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 2:17pm

If I were a muslim, I may well support the alleged taliban as a matter of principle

what's the US doing in Afghanistan anyway, other than guarding the poppies?

Why are Americans in Afghanistan?
Why were Australians in Afghanistan?

Billions of US dollars vanished into the hole that was once Afghanistan (photos abound. 'Astonishing Photos of Afghanistan from before the wars. Business Insider. Link Business Insider

'Millionaire mansions' built from US and world aid monies while their Afghani neighbours live in hovels and mud

same story wherever the US plunders. They smash it. Murder and rape and despoil. Then chuck US taxpayer money at it which is snapped up by those in the know who become the new 'barons' over their desperate neighbours

another US mess at a cost of trillions. And Australia gets dragged along in order the US can justify its war industry

As for bin Laden … wow

and he looks SO MUCH like Obama the Man from Where with his mysterious birth cert and the 36 different social security nos? too

Gadaffi
Saddam
bin Laden

names that will go down in falsified history and be accepted by students of the future as the bad-guys toppled by big brave US

If I were muslim, I may well support the Taliban against the US and its boot-lickers like Australia

why not? why wouldn't I support the alleged Taliban? What reason would I have to not support them/it?

and now the US is at it again .. Christmas New Year Special .. back to IranIraq

it's how the US and its owners and allies hide trillions which somehow finds its way into their already bulging pockets

I'd support IranIraq as well as the Taliban

and can't wait for China and its allies to shut the USrael pie-hole

put me on a list ;D

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 3:50pm

Do you boil your dogs alive before you eat them?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 5:46pm

Quote:

I thought it would be easier to get you to confirm the basic points.

There were quite a lot of "basic points" I made on that topic FD. If I was to repeat them all for you now it would end up being a fair bit of effort. It would also be a complete waste of time seeing they are all there in perfectly plain text in the very thread you quoted. And then why wouldn't you simply ask me again in 3 months time as if I never wrote them in the first place - like you always do? You need to break this bad habit of ignoring people's arguments FD, and I'm prepared to help you do that.

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 12:30pm:

I thought it would be easier to get you to confirm the basic points. Also, you get terribly upset when I quote bomb you. I guess either way we get your tapdancing.

I get more upset when you make crap up about me and flat out refuse to substantiate it with the quote you claim it came from. The particular question you asked me is an attempt to completely miscontrue my actual nuanced argument, I went to quite a lot of effort to explain my position at the time. I don't see why I should go through the entire argument again when its there in plain text in the very thread you quoted. And doing so will also just reinforce your bad habit of constantly demanding I repeat myself whenever you can't be bothered reading and understanding my arguments when I state them in the first place.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 5:57pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 5:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 12:30pm:

I thought it would be easier to get you to confirm the basic points. Also, you get terribly upset when I quote bomb you. I guess either way we get your tapdancing.

Islam has nothing to recommend it to the world. Yet you are partial to it, converted to it.

That is the long and the short of your position - you sided with something that is the latter day heir of the evil empire, although it has been around much longer. In the post-nazi, post-communist world, any Islamically organised society or aspiring Islamic society is the living evil counterpart to human dignity and free human self-realisation and flowering. And you are on its side.

That's the substance of everything you stand for.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 5:59pm

Frank do you ever get sick of repeating the same crap over and over and over and over...?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 7:28pm

Quote:

There were quite a lot of "basic points" I made on that topic FD.

I meant the basic points about how you support the Taliban.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 8:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 5:59pm:

Frank do you ever get sick of repeating the same crap over and over and over and over...?

It's the truth. You resist it because you have invested your life in a lie.

Islam is a always on the reactionary, evil side of whatever happens in the world. It has brought no improvement, no positive development into the world. It is entirely about reaction and oppression and denial and demanding blind submission.

It has no positive attribute. Aren't you sick of defending Oppression and Submission??

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by moses on Jan 5^th, 2020 at 4:51pm

The Killing of Gen. Qassim Suleimani: What We Know Since the U.S. Airstrike
Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, promised retaliation. The U.S. moved to send more troops to

the Middle East.

Trump says airstrike was ordered ‘to stop a war.’

President Trump said Friday afternoon that the airstrike that killed Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, the powerful

Iranian commander, was ordered “to stop a war” and prevented attacks on Americans.

“Suleimani was plotting imminent and sinister attacks on American diplomats and military

personnel, but we caught him in the act and terminated him,” he said, speaking to reporters

from his resort in West Palm Beach, Fla. “We took action last night to stop a war, we did not take action to

start a war.”

Mr. Trump said the United States is not seeking regime change in Iran, but called for Tehran’s “aggression in

the region” to immediately end. He also warned Iran against retaliating, saying, “If Americans anywhere are

threatened, we have all of those targets already fully identified, and I am ready and prepared

to take whatever action is necessary.”

He added, “that in particular refers to Iran.”

The airstrike directed by Mr. Trump dramatically ratcheted up tensions between Washington and Tehran, and

Iran’s leaders quickly promised retaliation for the general’s killing.

1 down how many zillion to go?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by Frank on Jan 5^th, 2020 at 6:18pm

More of them should be taken out more often.

Hanging's too good for them.

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 9:42am

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

There were quite a lot of "basic points" I made on that topic FD.

I meant the basic points about how you support the Taliban.

There was no such basic point.

See FD, just quoting me in the first place would have cleared all this up. You wouldn't have to make up all this crap about me supporting the taliban if you showed what I actually said. But I guess thats the whole point of this exercise right?

It is exceedingly absurd though the lengths you are going to avoid what I actually said. You do realise how bad this looks right?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 11:01am

Quote:

There was no such basic point.

Because you keep tapdancing on them.

Quote:

See FD, just quoting me in the first place would have cleared all this up.

Or, you would have deleted my post because you get upset when I quote you. It's a bit hard to predict, but "cleared this all up" was never an option.

Were the Taliban willing to assist the US to invade Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 1:23pm

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 11:01am:

but "cleared this all up" was never an option.

translation: I can never be clear on what gandalf actually said, because I flatly refuse to go and read what he actually said - instead I'll spam him with gotcha questions in case I can get him to say something incriminating.

FD - can you not see how silly it is throwing your hands up and declaring that finding out what I actually wrote in black and white in a thread that you literally link to in this very OP - was "never an option" - just because I refuse to repeat what is there in plain sight for anyone to see?

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 11:01am:

Or, you would have deleted my post because you get upset when I quote you. It's a bit hard to predict

Well what definitely isn't hard to predict, is what I actually wrote. In fact you don't need any powers of prediction. You simply need to read it - in the very thread that you yourself link in your own OP.

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 11:01am:

Were the Taliban willing to assist the US to invade Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden?

No. Aaaand once again you would find that out if you simply clicked on the link you yourself posted in your own OP and just read my actual words. The question has a completely false premise which completely miscontrues what I actually said - which as I say was detailed and nuanced. I'm not going to repeat it over and over, and nor should I be expected to.

This right here is the very problem: you playing this pathetic game of "put incriminating words into Gandalf's mouth and pose it as a question" - and stubbornly refuse to just simply read and comprehend what I already wrote. Like I said, the hillarious irony here is you spend about 40 pages playing this "I'm not repeating myself, I already said it!" in the Ahok thread

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by freediver on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 1:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 1:23pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 11:01am:

Were the Taliban willing to assist the US to invade Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden?

No.

But that was the essence of your proposal right?

Title: Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Post by polite_gandalf on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 2:13pm

The essense of my proposal was to state as fact that the taliban was willing to assist the US in capturing bin Laden was it FD? Sounds like a funny sounding proposal. Do tell me more. But whatever you do, just don't look at what I actually wrote - heaven forbid!