Must be a kick in the nuts for the followers of the climate change religion.


Quote:

Is the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu growing, and not sinking, as Craig Kelly says? The claim Liberal MP and climate sceptic Craig Kelly made headlines in November when he was caught on tape mocking "lefties" for exaggerating the effects of climate change. Speaking at a local party event, audio of which was leaked to the Guardian, Mr Kelly set out to debunk several justifications for climate change action, including the argument that Tuvalu, the Pacific island nation, was slipping beneath the sea. "The science tells us that Tuvalu, which I often hear about, is actually growing not sinking," he told colleagues. Is Tuvalu growing? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates. The verdict Mr Kelly's claim checks out. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-19/fact-check-is-the-island-nation-tuvalu-growing/10627318

Yes apparently the island chain only lost one Island in the last 40 years and the bigger islands did get a bit bigger. And they all moved a bit as well.

The chain is in a position that gets a significant amount of new material deposited because of the currents.

Island chains like the Solomon who do not have this advantage are sinking at an alarming rate.

Funny how a statement can be true and still not mean anything to the discussion.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Yes apparently the island chain only lost one Island in the last 40 years and the bigger islands did get a bit bigger.

Can you be the first one to name this island that was overcome by sea level rise as opposed subsidence, erosion etc?


Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Island chains like the Solomon who do not have this advantage are sinking at an alarming rate.

Can you name any of these islands?

http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.annual.plots/1861.png

So variable sea level. I see they list the Vertical movement as not robust.

Hard to see any SLR in that.

lee wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 6:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 5:34pm: Yes apparently the island chain only lost one Island in the last 40 years and the bigger islands did get a bit bigger. Can you be the first one to name this island that was overcome by sea level rise as opposed subsidence, erosion etc? Dnarever wrote on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 5:34pm: Island chains like the Solomon who do not have this advantage are sinking at an alarming rate. Can you name any of these islands?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0j6kr4ZJ0

Ah, Kiribati.

GPS shows that Betio Island is subsiding at -0.22 +/- 0.24 mm/yr. Subsidence is not SLR. ;)
http://www.sonel.org/spip.php?page=gps&idStation=711

You do understand the difficulty getting SLR data from the Pacific? El Ninos send a lot of water from west to east, water is lumpy, storm surge, swells.

Kiribati - again

"In contrast to those claims, the authors of a 2010 paper in the journal Global and Planetary Change used aerial and satellite photographs to conduct “the first quantitative analysis of physical changes” in 27 central Pacific coral reef islands. This included those in Kiribati.

The study examined four islands in Tarawa over periods of 31–65 years and found that:

    all four islands exhibited an increase in island area. Notably the three urbanized islands of Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai increased in area by 30, 16.3 and 12.5% respectively. Buariki in the north of the atoll exhibited an increase of 2%."

https://stream.org/nation-kiribati-growing-not-sinking/

The paper -https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818110001013

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:20pm:

Must be a kick in the nuts for the followers of the climate change religion.

No it's just another case of the deniers cherry picking their data.
Here is the full response from your link


Quote:

The verdict Mr Kelly's claim checks out. In the four decades to 2014, Tuvalu's total land area grew by 73 hectares, or 2.9 per cent. The expert behind this research told Fact Check the nation's islands were continually adjusting, and that the new land was habitable. But that's not to say Pacific nations are not at risk from rising seas. One expert told Fact Check that among the Solomon Islands, for example, reef and volcanic islands had disappeared or been eroded, in some cases displacing indigenous communities. Smaller islands in Tuvalu, though uninhabited, have also shrunk. The research cited by Mr Kelly suggests certain islands — specifically, larger atolls and reef platforms — can adapt to the current pace of sea level rise.

So please explain why data on a single island should be a "kick in the nuts" to the reality of GLOBAL AGW

Over 4 decades, there had been a net increase in land area in Tuvalu of 73.5 ha (2.9%), although the changes are not uniform, with 74% increasing and 27% decreasing in size. The sea level at the Funafuti tide gauge has risen at 3.9 mm per year, which is approximately twice the global average. The rising sea levels are identified as creating an increased transfer of wave energy across reef surfaces, which shifts sand, resulting in accretion to island shorelines, although this process does not result in additional habitable land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Tuvalu


That would seem to be more of a kick in the nuts to the deniers.

PLEASE......Barnacle......PLEASE.....!!!

STOP the bullsh1t.

There are so many holes in the AGW religion its amazing people still think its real.

Give me half a day on national television and I would bet I can reverse the tend of believers.

How.....???

With the TRUTH.......!!!

Starting with those computer model predictions.... :-*

Ajax wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:16am:

PLEASE......Barnacle......PLEASE.....!!! STOP the bullsh1t. There are so many holes in the AGW religion its amazing people still think its real. Give me half a day on national television and I would bet I can reverse the tend of believers. How.....??? With the TRUTH.......!!! Starting with those computer model predictions.... :-*

While you are at it you can explain how the moon landings were faked and 9/11 was an inside job.
You would be a laughing stock on national television  ;D

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:51am:

Ajax wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 10:16am: PLEASE......Barnacle......PLEASE.....!!! STOP the bullsh1t. There are so many holes in the AGW religion its amazing people still think its real. Give me half a day on national television and I would bet I can reverse the tend of believers. How.....??? With the TRUTH.......!!! Starting with those computer model predictions.... :-* While you are at it you can explain how the moon landings were faked and 9/11 was an inside job. You would be a laughing stock on national television  ;D

The buildings were demolished there is no other explanation.

About the moon time will tell, I still have doubts.

But AGW is the biggest fabricated lie EVER...... :-*

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:08am:

The sea level at the Funafuti tide gauge has risen at 3.9 mm per year, which is approximately twice the global average.

Interesting.

meanwhile -

"Vertical Land Movement Rate:      -1.69 ± 0.17 mm/yr"

http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.diagrams/1839.php

Subsidence is not SLR.

http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.monthly.plots/1839.png

http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/1839.php
try and tease out 3.9mm out of a mean 500mm tide range.

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 9:45am:

One expert told Fact Check that among the Solomon Islands, for example, reef and volcanic islands had disappeared or been eroded, in some cases displacing indigenous communities. Smaller islands in Tuvalu, though uninhabited, have also shrunk.

Erosion is not SLR.

If some islands have shrunk and some increased in size it must be very local SLR.

lee wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Kiribati - again "In contrast to those claims, the authors of a 2010 paper in the journal Global and Planetary Change used aerial and satellite photographs to conduct “the first quantitative analysis of physical changes” in 27 central Pacific coral reef islands. This included those in Kiribati. The study examined four islands in Tarawa over periods of 31–65 years and found that:     all four islands exhibited an increase in island area. Notably the three urbanized islands of Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai increased in area by 30, 16.3 and 12.5% respectively. Buariki in the north of the atoll exhibited an increase of 2%." https://stream.org/nation-kiribati-growing-not-sinking/ The paper -https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818110001013

Papers from general climate deniers, look at the video - Building sea walls and whole areas covered in water where homes had been.

Let me see who to believe ??

My own eyes or a clown looking for excuses ?

lee wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:29am:

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 9:45am: One expert told Fact Check that among the Solomon Islands, for example, reef and volcanic islands had disappeared or been eroded, in some cases displacing indigenous communities. Smaller islands in Tuvalu, though uninhabited, have also shrunk. Erosion is not SLR. If some islands have shrunk and some increased in size it must be very local SLR.

Rising sea levels cause erosion.

It's difficult to know what's happening with a volcanic island.

By definition they can grow in size.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:44am:

Rising sea levels cause erosion.

So does wave action. Now perhaps you can tell us how we tell them apart?

Dnarever wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:42am:

Papers from general climate deniers, look at the video - Building sea walls and whole areas covered in water where homes had been.

Ooh building close to the waters edge causes wet feet? I never knew that. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You do know that seas erode in places and deposit in others? I guess not. Islands change shape because of it. It doesn't mean less land just that it is located elsewhere.


Dnarever wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:42am:

Let me see who to believe ?? My own eyes or a clown looking for excuses ?

So because it is peer-reviewed science it is false? Interesting. I wonder how you manage to determine which peer-reviewed science is fact and which false.

I hear that more and more Media staff and Celebrities are fleeing their oppression at the hands of the Evil President Trump - and finding salvation in the islands of Oceania where they can enjoy their 'resorts' and 'mansions' in idyllic privacy and personal wealth... an island unto themselves.

lee wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:44am: Rising sea levels cause erosion. So does wave action. Now perhaps you can tell us how we tell them apart?

Gee you ask some rather obvious questions.

Wave action is obviously part of the equation, wave action working off a higher water level will cause erosion of areas previously not exposed to wave erosion. There is no need to tell anything apart it is all part of the process and driven by higher water levels.

Higher water levels cause more erosion and part of the process is wave action being able to attack areas previously out of its reach.

I think it interesting that Oceania is almost directly differerent to the Middle-East.

The Middle-East is a sea of desert with little spatterings of Oasis's and Oceania is a sea of water with little spatterings of islands.

The Middle-East is populated by little brown people with Religion on Books and a Spirituality on Fashion - all of which is ruled by a Green Reptillian Emperor of Military might from South America,
while Oceania is populated full of little Grey Scientists, Media, Atheists and Celebrities - all of which is ruled by a Blue Master Chef from Europe.  ;D

lee wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 12:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:42am: Papers from general climate deniers, look at the video - Building sea walls and whole areas covered in water where homes had been. Ooh building close to the waters edge causes wet feet? I never knew that. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You do know that seas erode in places and deposit in others? I guess not. Islands change shape because of it. It doesn't mean less land just that it is located elsewhere. Dnarever wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:42am: Let me see who to believe ?? My own eyes or a clown looking for excuses ? So because it is peer-reviewed science it is false? Interesting. I wonder how you manage to determine which peer-reviewed science is fact and which false.

it isn't the science which is at fault just the interpretation put on it by others. The report itself talks about substantial rising of water level.

Land area being eroded from the leading edges of islands and being deposited at the trailing edge which appears to possible be what I see in the movement patterns can only work till the islands migrate into deeper water. Obviously the migration is not good for current villages etc and the process provides new arid infertile land while stripping and salt damaging current fertile areas.

lee wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 12:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:42am: Papers from general climate deniers, look at the video - Building sea walls and whole areas covered in water where homes had been. Ooh building close to the waters edge causes wet feet? I never knew that. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You do know that seas erode in places and deposit in others? I guess not. Islands change shape because of it. It doesn't mean less land just that it is located elsewhere. Dnarever wrote on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:42am: Let me see who to believe ?? My own eyes or a clown looking for excuses ? So because it is peer-reviewed science it is false? Interesting. I wonder how you manage to determine which peer-reviewed science is fact and which false.

Quote:

Ooh building close to the waters edge causes wet feet? I never knew that. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It wasn't close to the waterline when built. Now they have a 5 foot sea walls 2 feet from their front door and they are building the sea wall higher.

Think of it as a bit of a Trump thing going on and the ocean are Mexicans and they are winning, the Wall is not going to win in the end.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 8:27pm:

It wasn't close to the waterline when built. Now they have a 5 foot sea walls 2 feet from their front door and they are building the sea wall higher.

So wave action or sea level rise?

BTW - How did these "general climate deniers" doctor the "aerial and satellite photographs "?  How come other climate scientists have not discovered this "fraud"?

It is not as if sceptics control the narrative or the press.

Just too funny. ;D ;D ;D

The world pulsates from the gravitation of the Sun
The world beats to the tides of the moon
The world flows with the changing of the seasons

...little wonder that the world is warm one day and cool the next, hot another day and cold the following. The seas rise, the seas fall - at the turning of the tide.

Scientists say its warming, then its cooling, then is flooding, then its drying.

Its a real tosser of an arguement.  ::)