The left professes to care about refugees and asylum seekers, however there is undeniable proof that this is not the case. Asia Bibi is a Pakistani Christian woman who was placed on death row about ten years ago now. Her crime? Simply drinking from a water bowl that was meant to be only for her Muslims coworkers. It is all ALLEGED that she simply asked Muslims what Muhammad had done for mankind. She was told that's she would be let off if she converted to Islam, but professed that her faith in Christ was strong and she refused. She was subject to cruelty, including isolation, appalling conditions and seeing her family, including young children, about twice a year.

Her conviction was recently appealed and she was acquitted and let free. Ever since, Muslim extemists have protested about her release and many have gone around demanding to know where she is, so that they can kill her.

I have not seen A SINGLE person from the left fight for her to be granted asylum in Australia. Not one. This lady is a bona fide ASYLUM SEEKER. Where is Sarah Hanson Young? Where is Adam Bandt or anyone else from the Greens or any other lefty who professes to be for asylum seekers? The only people who have taken up the case for this lady have been conservatives like Rita Panahi, Caroline Marcus and Andrew Bolt.

Have you given them a link to this post,  it's your duty of care

Already done and WTF does this have to do with Australia or politics???

::) ::) ::)

matty wrote on Dec 4^th, 2018 at 7:11pm:

The left professes to care about refugees and asylum seekers, however there is undeniable proof that this is not the case. Asia Bibi is a Pakistani Christian woman who was placed on death row about ten years ago now. Her crime? Simply drinking from a water bowl that was meant to be only for her Muslims coworkers. It is all ALLEGED that she simply asked Muslims what Muhammad had done for mankind. She was told that's she would be let off if she converted to Islam, but professed that her faith in Christ was strong and she refused. She was subject to cruelty, including isolation, appalling conditions and seeing her family, including young children, about twice a year. Her conviction was recently appealed and she was acquitted and let free. Ever since, Muslim extemists have protested about her release and many have gone around demanding to know where she is, so that they can kill her. I have not seen A SINGLE person from the left fight for her to be granted asylum in Australia. Not one. This lady is a bona fide ASYLUM SEEKER. Where is Sarah Hanson Young? Where is Adam Bandt or anyone else from the Greens or any other lefty who professes to be for asylum seekers? The only people who have taken up the case for this lady have been conservatives like Rita Panahi, Caroline Marcus and Andrew Bolt.

When did she claim asylum?

And, in what country?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 4^th, 2018 at 9:20pm:

matty wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 7:11pm: The left professes to care about refugees and asylum seekers, however there is undeniable proof that this is not the case. Asia Bibi is a Pakistani Christian woman who was placed on death row about ten years ago now. Her crime? Simply drinking from a water bowl that was meant to be only for her Muslims coworkers. It is all ALLEGED that she simply asked Muslims what Muhammad had done for mankind. She was told that's she would be let off if she converted to Islam, but professed that her faith in Christ was strong and she refused. She was subject to cruelty, including isolation, appalling conditions and seeing her family, including young children, about twice a year. Her conviction was recently appealed and she was acquitted and let free. Ever since, Muslim extemists have protested about her release and many have gone around demanding to know where she is, so that they can kill her. I have not seen A SINGLE person from the left fight for her to be granted asylum in Australia. Not one. This lady is a bona fide ASYLUM SEEKER. Where is Sarah Hanson Young? Where is Adam Bandt or anyone else from the Greens or any other lefty who professes to be for asylum seekers? The only people who have taken up the case for this lady have been conservatives like Rita Panahi, Caroline Marcus and Andrew Bolt. When did she claim asylum? And, in what country?

Not the UK!!!


Quote:

The Foreign Office has been accused of allowing government asylum policy to be dictated to by a Pakistan mob after it was confirmed it urged the Home Office not to grant Asia Bibi political asylum in the UK out of fear for the safety of UK consular staff.

:-? :-? :-?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/13/asia-bibi-foreign-office-accused-of-allowing-pakistan-mob-to-dictate-asia-bibi-asylum-case

Is there any thread that Matty starts which involves positive measures he takes to improve the lives of his fellow citizens.


Every single thread is basically an admission that conservatives are bad....but look so are leftys.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 5^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

Is there any thread that Matty starts which involves positive measures he takes to improve the lives of his fellow citizens. Every single thread is basically an admission that conservatives are bad....but look so are leftys.

With no supporting evidence of course, just assumptions. And making the nonsense that if you don't condemn THIS one, you don't care.

Ever notice how matty never condemns the behaviour of conservatives? He holds "the left" to much higher standards than he holds for himself. That's hypocrisy.

Reality - that poor woman's experience can be multiplied millions of times

She most probably doesn't even know where Australiia is

It is a  cruel heartless world

Australia does it's share of the heavy  lifting

But we can't help  every person in distress to 'come on down'

We would be swamped by the result

It is not our fault that countless thousands of millions of people are oppressed on this planet

Change must come from within and that means a total culture change

Which is unlikely in this lifetime or any other

Like it or not - that's the way it is

Is matty just a stirring ratbag ?

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court

It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding. 

The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her. 

People here do not realise just how lucky they are to be here

So many countries in this world where an individual cannot voice an opposing opinion against their Governments


China, Russia, Middle  East, Pakistan, Vietnam, Malaysia to name a few

red baron wrote on Dec 5^th, 2018 at 4:14pm:

People here do not realise just how lucky they are to be here So many countries in this world where an individual cannot voice an opposing opinion against their Governments China, Russia, Middle  East, Pakistan, Vietnam, Malaysia to name a few

USA

Bet Greggy wishes he could stir like Matty.

The left only care about power, they use minorities as objects to manipulate.

more proof that other side doesn't care.

red baron wrote on Dec 5^th, 2018 at 8:55am:

Reality - that poor woman's experience can be multiplied millions of times She most probably doesn't even know where Australiia is It is a  cruel heartless world Australia does it's share of the heavy  lifting But we can't help  every person in distress to 'come on down' We would be swamped by the result It is not our fault that countless thousands of millions of people are oppressed on this planet Change must come from within and that means a total culture change Which is unlikely in this lifetime or any other Like it or not - that's the way it is

I do see where you’re coming from, red, but the point is that we need to let in GENUINE asylum seekers; especially when we have many here who are not.

juliar wrote on Dec 5^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Is matty just a stirring ratbag ?

Matty is someone who cares about genuine asylum seekers, like this lady, white South African farmers and Christian Syrians.

Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said.

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5^th, 2018 at 12:37pm:

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.

And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre.

matty wrote on Dec 9^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

juliar wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:52am: Is matty just a stirring ratbag ? Matty is someone who cares about genuine asylum seekers, like this lady, white South African farmers and Christian Syrians.

You just shot down your own accusations and shown who really does not care about refugees....You only care about certain refugees of which most have not sought asylum in this country....What religion or race determines someone's refugee status???

:-? :-? :-?

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2018 at 9:14pm:

matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:21pm: juliar wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:52am: Is matty just a stirring ratbag ? Matty is someone who cares about genuine asylum seekers, like this lady, white South African farmers and Christian Syrians. You just shot down your own accusations and shown who really does not care about refugees....You only care about certain refugees of which most have not sought asylum in this country....What religion or race determines someone's refugee status??? :-? :-? :-?

No, I didn’t shoot down my own accusations.

To answer your question - yes. That is kind of how refugee status works - people being persecuted because of their colour (eg, whites in South Africa) or religion (eg Christians in Syria, Baha’i in Iran), then that makes them a refugee.

Feel free to provide any example of blacks being persecuted for their colour or Muslims being persecuted for their religions and I will be happy to say the same.

matty wrote on Dec 9^th, 2018 at 8:23pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:37pm: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.  And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre.

This is where you are fundamentally wrong Matty.  The lefties in this country does not defend Islam.   Rather its defense of innocent people from being wrongfully blamed for things that they have not committed.  The left believe in individual freedom, freedom to choose your own sexuality, religion and life without being bullied or prosecuted. 

In fact the progressives had been the forefront of battle against religious fundamentalism, both abroad  -  against Islamic extremism, and at home - against Christian fundamentalism, and right wing - nationalism. 

matty wrote on Dec 9^th, 2018 at 8:22pm:

Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said.

No it goes to show theres no substance to what you said.

matty wrote on Dec 9^th, 2018 at 8:19pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:55am: Reality - that poor woman's experience can be multiplied millions of times She most probably doesn't even know where Australiia is It is a  cruel heartless world Australia does it's share of the heavy  lifting But we can't help  every person in distress to 'come on down' We would be swamped by the result It is not our fault that countless thousands of millions of people are oppressed on this planet Change must come from within and that means a total culture change Which is unlikely in this lifetime or any other Like it or not - that's the way it is I do see where you’re coming from, red, but the point is that we need to let in GENUINE asylum seekers; especially when we have many here who are not.

"Asylum seekers who arrive by boat are subject to the same assessment criteria as all other asylum applicants.

"Past figures show that between 70 and 100 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat at different times have been found to be refugees ..."

"... since 1999, (onshore) final refugee status determination rates for IMAs from Afghanistan (the top country of citizenship for boat arrivals for many years) have consistently been very high—in the range of 88 to 100 per cent."

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 10^th, 2018 at 10:03am:

matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:37pm: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.  And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre. This is where you are fundamentally wrong Matty.  The lefties in this country does not defend Islam.   Rather its defense of innocent people from being wrongfully blamed for things that they have not committed.  The left believe in individual freedom, freedom to choose your own sexuality, religion and life without being bullied or prosecuted.  In fact the progressives had been the forefront of battle against religious fundamentalism, both abroad  -  against Islamic extremism, and at home - against Christian fundamentalism, and right wing - nationalism.

Hogwash. The left loves attacking Christianity and always gives Islam a free pass. I mean, for one, you refuse to acknowledge that Islam has far more extremists and is more violent and oppressive of women than any other religions.

I can provide many examples of this, happy to do so if you like.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 10^th, 2018 at 11:10am:

matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:22pm: Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said. No it goes to show theres no substance to what you said.

Oh so there are lefties out there demanding that Asia Bibi be granted asylum here? Sorry then, my mistake. I am sure that you can provide links to this. Thank you in advance.

matty wrote on Dec 11^th, 2018 at 6:49am:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 10:03am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:37pm: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.  And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre. This is where you are fundamentally wrong Matty.  The lefties in this country does not defend Islam.   Rather its defense of innocent people from being wrongfully blamed for things that they have not committed.  The left believe in individual freedom, freedom to choose your own sexuality, religion and life without being bullied or prosecuted.  In fact the progressives had been the forefront of battle against religious fundamentalism, both abroad  -  against Islamic extremism, and at home - against Christian fundamentalism, and right wing - nationalism.  Hogwash. The left loves attacking Christianity and always gives Islam a free pass. I mean, for one, you refuse to acknowledge that Islam has far more extremists and is more violent and oppressive of women than any other religions. I can provide many examples of this, happy to do so if you like.

Oh Matty, does it ever occur to you that there are also Christians on the left as well.  And in fact, Jesus Christ is probably the most well known Socialist you will ever find.   And on matters of many issues: like abortion, same sex marriages, institutional sexual abuse etc, even Christians themselves disagrees with each other. 

And for the record, I am not acknowledge certain religions, because I am of the firm belief that the root of cause of evil and violence in our world are caused by humanity itself.  Whether its for fear, for greed, for lust, at the end of the day the underlying basic cause remained the same.  Religion are being used as an excuse to hide the true cause, at the same time, its being used as a quick answer. 

Even if this day, there is no such thing as Islam, our world would still have the same level of violence, just in a different name or ideology.   

" Over the past four years since the government “stopped the boats”, 64,362 protection visa applications have been made by individuals who have arrived on tourist visas, by plane, under Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton’s watch."....
" People smugglers are alive and well, doing great business, after changing their business model to accommodate the government crackdown on asylum seekers coming to our shores by boat.
Figures just released by the Home Affairs department show that 27,931 protection visa applications were made in the latest financial year by asylum seekers who have come by plane.
This is a record under this government or the previous Labor government.
The previous record number was 26,845 in the 2012-13 financial year, under Labor. But that figure included 18,365 for boat arrivals and only 8480 for those who came by plane. And the figures for 2018-19 will by higher still."

matty wrote on Dec 11^th, 2018 at 6:50am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:10am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:22pm: Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said. No it goes to show theres no substance to what you said. Oh so there are lefties out there demanding that Asia Bibi be granted asylum here? Sorry then, my mistake. I am sure that you can provide links to this. Thank you in advance.

You had a questiuon? I'm sorry.

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 11^th, 2018 at 8:02am:

matty wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 6:49am: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 10:03am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:37pm: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.  And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre. This is where you are fundamentally wrong Matty.  The lefties in this country does not defend Islam.   Rather its defense of innocent people from being wrongfully blamed for things that they have not committed.  The left believe in individual freedom, freedom to choose your own sexuality, religion and life without being bullied or prosecuted.  In fact the progressives had been the forefront of battle against religious fundamentalism, both abroad  -  against Islamic extremism, and at home - against Christian fundamentalism, and right wing - nationalism.  Hogwash. The left loves attacking Christianity and always gives Islam a free pass. I mean, for one, you refuse to acknowledge that Islam has far more extremists and is more violent and oppressive of women than any other religions. I can provide many examples of this, happy to do so if you like. Oh Matty, does it ever occur to you that there are also Christians on the left as well.  And in fact, Jesus Christ is probably the most well known Socialist you will ever find.   And on matters of many issues: like abortion, same sex marriages, institutional sexual abuse etc, even Christians themselves disagrees with each other.  And for the record, I am not acknowledge certain religions, because I am of the firm belief that the root of cause of evil and violence in our world are caused by humanity itself.  Whether its for fear, for greed, for lust, at the end of the day the underlying basic cause remained the same.  Religion are being used as an excuse to hide the true cause, at the same time, its being used as a quick answer.  Even if this day, there is no such thing as Islam, our world would still have the same level of violence, just in a different name or ideology.

Of course there are left-wing Christians, rose, just as there are right-wing Atheists. Any Rand is a particular influence of mine and she was an unabashed Atheist. Jesus was not a Soialist though, not sure where you derived that idea.

Of course there is violence in the world and of course it isn’t all Islam. However, I finding what you say a feeble excuse to ignore or obfuscate the very real threat of Islamic terrorism. The same tactic was used by Ann Aly recently. This kind of terrorism is seen on a global scale and is carried out in the name of Islam. No other religion these days oppresses women, persecutes homosexuals and subjects cruelty to minorities (eg the Baha’i in Iran or the Christians in Syria). Tell me, why do you think that out of all the Middle Eastern Christians, womens and homosexuals have more rights in Israel and Lebanon, and Georgia and Armenia if you add those?

The only majority Islam’s country there that allows for freedom of religion and where women and homosexuals have rights is Turkey, and Azerbaija, if you add that. Coincidence that those two countries have church’s and state separated?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 11^th, 2018 at 9:11am:

matty wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 6:50am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:10am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:22pm: Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said. No it goes to show theres no substance to what you said. Oh so there are lefties out there demanding that Asia Bibi be granted asylum here? Sorry then, my mistake. I am sure that you can provide links to this. Thank you in advance. You had a questiuon? I'm sorry.

Oh okay, so nobody then? So surprised.

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2018 at 9:32pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:11am: matty wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 6:50am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:10am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:22pm: Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said. No it goes to show theres no substance to what you said. Oh so there are lefties out there demanding that Asia Bibi be granted asylum here? Sorry then, my mistake. I am sure that you can provide links to this. Thank you in advance. You had a questiuon? I'm sorry. Oh okay, so nobody then? So surprised.

You never really answer our questions so why should we be surprised.


Again, though as I've said in another thread, try to do somethine positiive with your life instead of just whining about the other side.

matty wrote on Dec 14^th, 2018 at 9:31pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 8:02am: matty wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 6:49am: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 10:03am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:37pm: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.  And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre. This is where you are fundamentally wrong Matty.  The lefties in this country does not defend Islam.   Rather its defense of innocent people from being wrongfully blamed for things that they have not committed.  The left believe in individual freedom, freedom to choose your own sexuality, religion and life without being bullied or prosecuted.  In fact the progressives had been the forefront of battle against religious fundamentalism, both abroad  -  against Islamic extremism, and at home - against Christian fundamentalism, and right wing - nationalism.  Hogwash. The left loves attacking Christianity and always gives Islam a free pass. I mean, for one, you refuse to acknowledge that Islam has far more extremists and is more violent and oppressive of women than any other religions. I can provide many examples of this, happy to do so if you like. Oh Matty, does it ever occur to you that there are also Christians on the left as well.  And in fact, Jesus Christ is probably the most well known Socialist you will ever find.   And on matters of many issues: like abortion, same sex marriages, institutional sexual abuse etc, even Christians themselves disagrees with each other.  And for the record, I am not acknowledge certain religions, because I am of the firm belief that the root of cause of evil and violence in our world are caused by humanity itself.  Whether its for fear, for greed, for lust, at the end of the day the underlying basic cause remained the same.  Religion are being used as an excuse to hide the true cause, at the same time, its being used as a quick answer.  Even if this day, there is no such thing as Islam, our world would still have the same level of violence, just in a different name or ideology.    Of course there are left-wing Christians, rose, just as there are right-wing Atheists. Any Rand is a particular influence of mine and she was an unabashed Atheist. Jesus was not a Soialist though, not sure where you derived that idea. Of course there is violence in the world and of course it isn’t all Islam. However, I finding what you say a feeble excuse to ignore or obfuscate the very real threat of Islamic terrorism. The same tactic was used by Ann Aly recently. This kind of terrorism is seen on a global scale and is carried out in the name of Islam. No other religion these days oppresses women, persecutes homosexuals and subjects cruelty to minorities (eg the Baha’i in Iran or the Christians in Syria). Tell me, why do you think that out of all the Middle Eastern Christians, womens and homosexuals have more rights in Israel and Lebanon, and Georgia and Armenia if you add those? The only majority Islam’s country there that allows for freedom of religion and where women and homosexuals have rights is Turkey, and Azerbaija, if you add that. Coincidence that those two countries have church’s and state separated?

Re Matty

From the bible of course. 

Matthe 19 

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,
19 honor your father and mother,’and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

On the other issues raised:

The middle East had always being an area of violence due to its harsh climate, but an important cross road between East to west, the North to the South. Pre Islam, there were the Persian Greek wars, the conquest of Alexander the great and his father, the Roman empire.   Islam was formed, because of constant war and pillage due to war between the Byzantines and the Persians.   There, religions are being used as an excuse to control and subjugate people.   And this involves not only between religions but also within religions.  You mentioned about Islam Vs other religion in the area, but the same also occur to muslims, e.g between Sunnis, Shiite, and others.   They are the majority there, and by proportion, women and children are also being abused attacked and assaulted. 

Unlike you, I see the big picture, and the root course of it, the underlying greed, lust, and power.  To me, a muslim child that is suffering or killed is no more or less tragic than a Christian one. 

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 8:57am:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:32pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:11am: matty wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 6:50am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:10am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:22pm: Isn’t it funny how all the leftie, except rose, have just tried to obfuscate this by attacking me personally, and criticising my character. It goes to show that you can’t actually refute what I said. No it goes to show theres no substance to what you said. Oh so there are lefties out there demanding that Asia Bibi be granted asylum here? Sorry then, my mistake. I am sure that you can provide links to this. Thank you in advance. You had a questiuon? I'm sorry. Oh okay, so nobody then? So surprised. You never really answer our questions so why should we be surprised. Again, though as I've said in another thread, try to do somethine positiive with your life instead of just whining about the other side.

Which questions did I not answer?

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 1:09pm:

matty wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:31pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 8:02am: matty wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 6:49am: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 10:03am: matty wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:37pm: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/31/16/30/death-sentenced-for-pakistan-woman-at-centre-of-blasphemy-case-quashed-by-court It is the conservatives in Pakistan are calling for her to be hanged, and threatened wide spread protest and unrest if she is released. In 2011, a bodyguard shot and killed his politician for voicing for Asia Bibi.   And now the conservative lunatics are hunting Asia and her family who have gone into hiding.  The liberals and the progressives in Pakistan tried and continue to try to save her.  And yet the left and left feminists defends Islam and ignores its oppression of women and persecution of homosexuals. Bizarre. This is where you are fundamentally wrong Matty.  The lefties in this country does not defend Islam.   Rather its defense of innocent people from being wrongfully blamed for things that they have not committed.  The left believe in individual freedom, freedom to choose your own sexuality, religion and life without being bullied or prosecuted.  In fact the progressives had been the forefront of battle against religious fundamentalism, both abroad  -  against Islamic extremism, and at home - against Christian fundamentalism, and right wing - nationalism.  Hogwash. The left loves attacking Christianity and always gives Islam a free pass. I mean, for one, you refuse to acknowledge that Islam has far more extremists and is more violent and oppressive of women than any other religions. I can provide many examples of this, happy to do so if you like. Oh Matty, does it ever occur to you that there are also Christians on the left as well.  And in fact, Jesus Christ is probably the most well known Socialist you will ever find.   And on matters of many issues: like abortion, same sex marriages, institutional sexual abuse etc, even Christians themselves disagrees with each other.  And for the record, I am not acknowledge certain religions, because I am of the firm belief that the root of cause of evil and violence in our world are caused by humanity itself.  Whether its for fear, for greed, for lust, at the end of the day the underlying basic cause remained the same.  Religion are being used as an excuse to hide the true cause, at the same time, its being used as a quick answer.  Even if this day, there is no such thing as Islam, our world would still have the same level of violence, just in a different name or ideology.    Of course there are left-wing Christians, rose, just as there are right-wing Atheists. Any Rand is a particular influence of mine and she was an unabashed Atheist. Jesus was not a Soialist though, not sure where you derived that idea. Of course there is violence in the world and of course it isn’t all Islam. However, I finding what you say a feeble excuse to ignore or obfuscate the very real threat of Islamic terrorism. The same tactic was used by Ann Aly recently. This kind of terrorism is seen on a global scale and is carried out in the name of Islam. No other religion these days oppresses women, persecutes homosexuals and subjects cruelty to minorities (eg the Baha’i in Iran or the Christians in Syria). Tell me, why do you think that out of all the Middle Eastern Christians, womens and homosexuals have more rights in Israel and Lebanon, and Georgia and Armenia if you add those? The only majority Islam’s country there that allows for freedom of religion and where women and homosexuals have rights is Turkey, and Azerbaija, if you add that. Coincidence that those two countries have church’s and state separated? Re Matty From the bible of course.  Matthe 19  16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” 20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

There is a big difference between socialism and charity, rose.

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 1:13pm:

On the other issues raised: The middle East had always being an area of violence due to its harsh climate, but an important cross road between East to west, the North to the South. Pre Islam, there were the Persian Greek wars, the conquest of Alexander the great and his father, the Roman empire.   Islam was formed, because of constant war and pillage due to war between the Byzantines and the Persians.   There, religions are being used as an excuse to control and subjugate people.   And this involves not only between religions but also within religions.  You mentioned about Islam Vs other religion in the area, but the same also occur to muslims, e.g between Sunnis, Shiite, and others.   They are the majority there, and by proportion, women and children are also being abused attacked and assaulted.  Unlike you, I see the big picture, and the root course of it, the underlying greed, lust, and power.  To me, a muslim child that is suffering or killed is no more or less tragic than a Christian one.

Is Pakistan in the Middle East though? Indonesia? We still see the same kind of violence there. Conversely, as I said, why do we not see the same kind of violence in Lebanon, Israel, Georgia and Armenia? Ie, the countries in the Middle East where Islam is not the majority.

Also, I take exception to you insinuating that I don’t feel sympathy or sorrow for Muslim children being hurt. To the contrary, I am appalled at the way that girls aren’t mutilated when they are born. I also don’t like the fact that women are forced to cover their body. Strange that we don’t see the left so-called feminists say anything about that. Actually, when a victim of fgm says something, eg Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and protests against it, for some reason she, the victim, and one trying to end this barbaric practice, is criticsed. Go figure...

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 1:13pm:

On the other issues raised: The middle East had always being an area of violence due to its harsh climate, but an important cross road between East to west, the North to the South. Pre Islam, there were the Persian Greek wars, the conquest of Alexander the great and his father, the Roman empire.   Islam was formed, because of constant war and pillage due to war between the Byzantines and the Persians.   There, religions are being used as an excuse to control and subjugate people.   And this involves not only between religions but also within religions.  You mentioned about Islam Vs other religion in the area, but the same also occur to muslims, e.g between Sunnis, Shiite, and others.   They are the majority there, and by proportion, women and children are also being abused attacked and assaulted.  Unlike you, I see the big picture, and the root course of it, the underlying greed, lust, and power.  To me, a muslim child that is suffering or killed is no more or less tragic than a Christian one.

Wars are about religion and resources not climate. Look at Australia and our clients.ate and no wars? Gawd

Spot

Wars happen with or without religious causes.

But yah, religion, war and control  are a.familiar trinity.

Re Matty,

Interesting observation.  Many right wing Christian friends that I have, told me the exact same.  You can live by a life of capitalism, enjoying its rewards, and give to the poor.  This charitable spirit is that Jesus requires of you in addition to the commendaments and faith in him. 

But, I think god's or Jesus's love for humanity transends merely charity. 

Noted, in Matthew 19:21: 
21: Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

The concept of capitalism is at its basis profit driven.  It uses the basic principal similar to the natural evolutionery process.  Those who can compete, and have a good idea, they survive and prosper.  Those who doesnt, dies away.  There is no inbuilt mechanism to help those in need - except charity.    And this is basically what USA is like. 

But god's heaven its different.  There, basically we all are like kings, equal to each other.  No matter, who you are in life.  You can be contributing as much as you could, or as little as you could, but with god's grace and love. You will be provided, and your illness cured.  And there eternal happiness.   And many passages in the bible have told us, that the richness in heaven is more of a spiritual one, and that you should not hold on to your Earthly materials, because its is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 

Okay, granted, this is probably not strictly socialism.  However, its much much more closer to socialism than capitalism will ever be. 

matty wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 3:09pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17th, 2018 at 1:13pm: On the other issues raised: The middle East had always being an area of violence due to its harsh climate, but an important cross road between East to west, the North to the South. Pre Islam, there were the Persian Greek wars, the conquest of Alexander the great and his father, the Roman empire.   Islam was formed, because of constant war and pillage due to war between the Byzantines and the Persians.   There, religions are being used as an excuse to control and subjugate people.   And this involves not only between religions but also within religions.  You mentioned about Islam Vs other religion in the area, but the same also occur to muslims, e.g between Sunnis, Shiite, and others.   They are the majority there, and by proportion, women and children are also being abused attacked and assaulted.  Unlike you, I see the big picture, and the root course of it, the underlying greed, lust, and power.  To me, a muslim child that is suffering or killed is no more or less tragic than a Christian one.  Is Pakistan in the Middle East though? Indonesia? We still see the same kind of violence there. Conversely, as I said, why do we not see the same kind of violence in Lebanon, Israel, Georgia and Armenia? Ie, the countries in the Middle East where Islam is not the majority. Also, I take exception to you insinuating that I don’t feel sympathy or sorrow for Muslim children being hurt. To the contrary, I am appalled at the way that girls aren’t mutilated when they are born. I also don’t like the fact that women are forced to cover their body. Strange that we don’t see the left so-called feminists say anything about that. Actually, when a victim of fgm says something, eg Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and protests against it, for some reason she, the victim, and one trying to end this barbaric practice, is criticsed. Go figure...

This is why I say you are biased.  In the western society, the right for women and the sexual revolution started with the progressives and the left.   And did not come without struggle.  If a woman is to wear a bikini in St Kilda back in 1900s, they would be arrested just like the two men did back then.   

And the progressives in each of the countries continues to fight for more women's right.   However, the hardline conservatives of those countries always gets in the way.  The progressives sees the problem, and will start tackling the problem from the root of the issue.  Better education and health care, so that people have a better knowledge of the world around them, and thereby changing their views.  What you are doing is to just lump all the solution to 'its Islam's ' fault.  But the problems is, the woman and the girls who are suffering are also muslims.  So, its like you are blaming them for their own suffering.   What you are doing, is only going to make those around them more entrenched in their ways, and thereby furthering their suffering.

If you want to look at the same level of violence.  Look no further than our own.  Each and every white christian European countries have colorful history involving violence against different house, names and different brands of Christianity.   We also just came out from two world wars, with body tally far exceeding regional conflicts today.  And we also had Korean and Vietnam wars. 

But if you look at history Matty.   Starting from WW1.  The cause of WWI, and the final result of WWI, including the break down of Russian Monarch shortly thereafter, to the breakup of the Ottoman empire into smaller countries controlled by different colonial powers.  You will start to see, that there is order to the overall conflict.  Its all intricately connected.   And religion is just not the main theme. 

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 3:55pm:

Re Matty, Interesting observation.  Many right wing Christian friends that I have, told me the exact same.  You can live by a life of capitalism, enjoying its rewards, and give to the poor.  This charitable spirit is that Jesus requires of you in addition to the commendaments and faith in him.  But, I think god's or Jesus's love for humanity transends merely charity.  Noted, in Matthew 19:21:  21: Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. The concept of capitalism is at its basis profit driven.  It uses the basic principal similar to the natural evolutionery process.  Those who can compete, and have a good idea, they survive and prosper.  Those who doesnt, dies away.  There is no inbuilt mechanism to help those in need - except charity.    And this is basically what USA is like.  But god's heaven its different.  There, basically we all are like kings, equal to each other.  No matter, who you are in life.  You can be contributing as much as you could, or as little as you could, but with god's grace and love. You will be provided, and your illness cured.  And there eternal happiness.   And many passages in the bible have told us, that the richness in heaven is more of a spiritual one, and that you should not hold on to your Earthly materials, because its is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.  Okay, granted, this is probably not strictly socialism.  However, its much much more closer to socialism than capitalism will ever be.

Rose, Jesus was very much for free will, and for people choosing their path and living their life to the best if their ability. That is a lot closer to capitalism than it is to socialism.

Heaven is indeed deemed a place of eternal happiness, however, happiness is relative and one man’s happiness can be another man’s misery.

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17^th, 2018 at 4:31pm:

matty wrote on Dec 17th, 2018 at 3:09pm: tickleandrose wrote on Dec 17th, 2018 at 1:13pm: On the other issues raised: The middle East had always being an area of violence due to its harsh climate, but an important cross road between East to west, the North to the South. Pre Islam, there were the Persian Greek wars, the conquest of Alexander the great and his father, the Roman empire.   Islam was formed, because of constant war and pillage due to war between the Byzantines and the Persians.   There, religions are being used as an excuse to control and subjugate people.   And this involves not only between religions but also within religions.  You mentioned about Islam Vs other religion in the area, but the same also occur to muslims, e.g between Sunnis, Shiite, and others.   They are the majority there, and by proportion, women and children are also being abused attacked and assaulted.  Unlike you, I see the big picture, and the root course of it, the underlying greed, lust, and power.  To me, a muslim child that is suffering or killed is no more or less tragic than a Christian one.  Is Pakistan in the Middle East though? Indonesia? We still see the same kind of violence there. Conversely, as I said, why do we not see the same kind of violence in Lebanon, Israel, Georgia and Armenia? Ie, the countries in the Middle East where Islam is not the majority. Also, I take exception to you insinuating that I don’t feel sympathy or sorrow for Muslim children being hurt. To the contrary, I am appalled at the way that girls aren’t mutilated when they are born. I also don’t like the fact that women are forced to cover their body. Strange that we don’t see the left so-called feminists say anything about that. Actually, when a victim of fgm says something, eg Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and protests against it, for some reason she, the victim, and one trying to end this barbaric practice, is criticsed. Go figure... This is why I say you are biased.  In the western society, the right for women and the sexual revolution started with the progressives and the left.   And did not come without struggle.  If a woman is to wear a bikini in St Kilda back in 1900s, they would be arrested just like the two men did back then.    And the progressives in each of the countries continues to fight for more women's right.   However, the hardline conservatives of those countries always gets in the way.  The progressives sees the problem, and will start tackling the problem from the root of the issue.  Better education and health care, so that people have a better knowledge of the world around them, and thereby changing their views.  What you are doing is to just lump all the solution to 'its Islam's ' fault.  But the problems is, the woman and the girls who are suffering are also muslims.  So, its like you are blaming them for their own suffering.   What you are doing, is only going to make those around them more entrenched in their ways, and thereby furthering their suffering. If you want to look at the same level of violence.  Look no further than our own.  Each and every white christian European countries have colorful history involving violence against different house, names and different brands of Christianity.   We also just came out from two world wars, with body tally far exceeding regional conflicts today.  And we also had Korean and Vietnam wars.  But if you look at history Matty.   Starting from WW1.  The cause of WWI, and the final result of WWI, including the break down of Russian Monarch shortly thereafter, to the breakup of the Ottoman empire into smaller countries controlled by different colonial powers.  You will start to see, that there is order to the overall conflict.  Its all intricately connected.   And religion is just not the main theme.

I already said that I find the oppression of Muslim women in those countries awful, rose. You are the one who keeps skirting around the issue. You have failed to address why women in Lebanon, Armenia and Georgia have far more rights than those in Muslim-majority countries (with the exception of Turkey and Azerbaijan). If you and your fellow “progressives” truly cared about women in these conditions, you would be campaigning for Ayaan Hirsi Ali and against Linda Sarsour. Instead it is the exact opposite.

You are the one who keeps dodging the issue of fgm and forced covering, women being stoned for the crime of being raped, I could go on...

Christianity has been responsible for many atrocities carried out in the past, but it has now reformed and can you name one single country in the world where women have no rights, and are treated effectively as slaves? Also, look at all the worldwide good that Christianity has done; all the charity work and missionary work. Unlike Islam.

Since matty is being critical of everything, i am still waiting for him to open a thread on this:
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/liberal-powerbrokers-in-racist-and-homophobic-text-furore-20181218-p50n2b.html#comments

Maybe like, "Proof that the right love being racist and homophobic"?  Just like Matty?

Do it

Spot

Also the statement "Proof that the left..." is that everyone that is left of you?  Or a large majority?  Or is it because no one else bothered to write something about it on this thread you assumed they don't?

Stacks of racism/sexism/-ism by all sides, but you choose to focus on the left each time.  Boring and pointless.  Then again, people enjoy humoring you by answering the thread like me.