| Australian Politics Forum | |
|
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl
Member Run Boards >> Environment >> Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1543632893 Message started by Ajax on Dec 1st, 2018 at 12:54pm |
|
|
Title: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 1st, 2018 at 12:54pm
How anyone who has done some research of their own can still believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) is beyond me, especially when all the evidence is in computer models and doesn’t exist in the real world.
Let’s see, remember 1. The hot spot in the tropause was in the computer models about 10 to 12 kilometres above the surface, radiosonde instrumentation sent up in weather balloons failed to find this hot spot, it only existed on the computer models, but hold on they found an excuse for that it went like this, 2. OH but the heat has been absorbed by the oceans, they should have checked first because since 2002 we have had the argo system monitoring the oceans they go down to a depth of 2000 metres, they never picked up this latent heat, so then the alarmists said but it went down to the deepest part of the ocean, still the argo would have picked it up, yes. 3. The hiatus – why hasn’t it warmed up in accordance with what the computer models had shown. a. Computer models show an increase up to 2.78°C by end of this century, predicted in 1990 that means in the last 28 years we should have warmed to a specific point which we haven’t. b. Empirical observations for the last 28 years estimate not even a 1°C increase in temperature by end of this century, do you still think we should spend billions and give our money up to the UN and wall street, we don’t need to do anything and the increase in temperature will remain under 1°C. So what does that tell us that the theory/hypothesis is wrong because it doesn’t agree with observations. 4. The attitude of scientists in the alarmists camp, here are our findings now sit down, shut up and don’t you dare dispute what we’re telling you….!!!....Sorry today we still have people still trying to prove Newton and Einstein wrong, once you submit a paper its up for scrutiny 24/7 year round. What about John Cook over at the sceptical science blog forging his paper that 97% of scientists agree that AGW is real 5. I could go on and on like for example climate gate, scientists in the alarmist camp trying to SCARE average people into following this cult, it’s in their emails people FFS WTFU. 6. All the devastating predictions and critical moments in time that have come and gone and yet our panacea hasn’t been established we have been doomed to destruction many times over, past the point of no return many times over and yet here we are. 7. The Earth will destroy us the panacea to this destruction is a multibillion dollar market on the stock exchange where your average Joe and Jacinta pay for the free air above their heads to the oligarchy, it was the oligarchies idea you know, Anthropogenic Global Warming, money for jam that’s the way they like it OH let’s not forget their mouth piece and enforcer the UN they too will get a commission of sorts. 8. Why did Peter Mann hide the Medieval warm period (MWP) and little ice age (LIA) with his hockey stick, pre 2000 the IPCC had shown this graph for 10 years in its papers, then without a word it was replaced with Peter Man’s hockey stick which shows no MWP or LIA. 9. Why don’t the alarmist camps every tell people that we have had atmospheric CO2 levels up to 7000ppm in our history compared to today’s 410ppm and guess what life thrived here on Earth at 7000ppm, they only show you a certain scale which makes it seem as though CO2 and temperature correlate, in reality there is no correlation and when you view historical documents showing CO2 and temperature you quickly come to realise that CO2 while it does have a logarithmic effect on our temperature certainly doesn’t control it. 10. There are so many things the alarmists have done to scare people into action no quicker way to create a foot soldier than for the environment, what about the fact that they have tampered with past temperature readings, or that current thermometers are in inappropriate places, just too many things to state, yet the sheep keep on baaing. Climate change has been with us since day dot and will be with us until the Earth is no more. Anthropogenic Global Warming is a hoax perpetrated by the oligarchy to financially enslave us all. While in might be fun to get lost in the detail. Let's not forget the history. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by issuevoter on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:23pm
So the volume of Greenhouse gasses pumped into the atmosphere for 200 years has no effect. Grow up and face reality.
|
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:40pm issuevoter wrote on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Where did he say it has NO effect? Perhaps you can point to catastrophes that have been visited upon us; caused by AGW. Mcahel E Mann has been made to show his workings. That will be enlightening. He says in part - "But there are (at least) two other problems — Keith Briffa points out that the very strong trend in the 20th century calibration period accounts for much of the success of our calibration and makes it unlikely that we would be able be able to reconstruct such an extraordinary period as the 1990s with much success (I may be mis-quoting him somewhat, but that is the general thrust of his criticism). Indeed, in the verification period, the biggest “miss” was an apparently very warm year in the late 19th century that we did not get right at all. This makes criticisms of the “antis” difficult to respond to (they have not yet risen to this level of sophistication, but they are “on the scent”)." In 1818 (200 years ago) we were in the depths of the LIA. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:42pm issuevoter wrote on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:23pm:
There are a hand full of people who have no idea, no point trying to convince them of anything. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by DonDeeHippy on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 6:36am
and of course heavily polluted air in our cities r just a natural occurrence and nothing to do with us Humans...….
Nothing to see here just carry on...….. :D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 9:23am issuevoter wrote on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Exactly. If you change the composition of the atmosphere then you are going to change the climate. It happened in the past and the only difference this time is that it has been caused by humans. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:35am issuevoter wrote on Dec 1st, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Of course we have an effect I never said otherwise, but it's no where near what is being promulgated. Earth's temperature has been increasing since the little ice age, but of course you must have missed that because of the hockey stick. The effects of CO2 on our temperature are logarithmic and after a certain point the effects of CO2 diminish. 1. The logarithmic effect of CO2 2. CO2 Emissions Compared to natural CO2 emissions mans emissions of CO2 are just too small to register. Notice the sharp rise in fossil fuel CO2 emissions after 2000. After 2000 fossil fuel emissions were 3 times the amount of fossil fuel emissions in the prior decade to 2000, that is 3 times as much fossil fuel emission went into our atmosphere after 2000 than the decade before 2000. But the average yearly increase after 2000 just like the decade prior to 2000, average increase in CO2 remains more or less steady at 2.1ppm per year. Fossil fuel CO2 emissions at 2.3% of the total CO2 natural emissions are insignificant and get lost in the noise. That's why the average yearly increase of CO2 has remained steady at 2.1ppm per year even though fossil fuel emissions have shot through the roof. Yes fossil fuels emissions contribute but the contribution is small at 2.3% of the total amount of natural CO2 that is emitted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGZqWMEpyUM |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:42am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:35am:
Yes you have stated this many times but It is a pretty meaningless statement. How much warming would be caused by CO2 levels being increased from 300ppm to 400ppm? |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:45am DonDeeHippy wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 6:36am:
Yes us humans have an effect where have I said otherwise. COX, SOX, NOX and soot are all pollutants and we should clean them up asap. But CO2 is not a pollutant......!!! You know those bubbles in you soft drink and beer they are CO2...!!! Do we drink pollution......??? CO2 = plant food, eg. CO2 greenhouses....! |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:45am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:35am:
Once again you are showing ignorance of the carbon cycle. Natural emissions are balanced by natural absorption. Human emissions are ADDITIONAL and they ACCUMULATE |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:46am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:45am:
If the Earth could absorb 7000ppm why should there be a problem with 410ppm. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:47am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:42am:
Not much as the graphs show. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:48am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:45am:
emotive semantics Too much of anything is a pollutant. Too little CO2 and we would freeze As with anything it is all about dosage. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:49am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:47am:
What is "not much"? Is it 2 degrees? 3 degrees? |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:50am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:48am:
Too much oxygen is also a pollutant....!!! Today we have some of the lowest ever amounts of atmospheric CO2 in recorded history. The Earth has been warming since the LIA its only natural for natural CO2 emissions to increase. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:51am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:49am:
If we went to 800ppm it would be about 1 degree Celsius, both sides agree on this. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:00am
Face it Barnacle the computer models were wrong.
So why should we pay through the nose for the free air that we breathe to the George Soros of this world. Warming by the end of this century IPCC computer models (year 1990) projected warming………............+2.78° C / end of this Century Observations the last 25 years project a warming of………………………….. +1.01° C / end of this Century The Essence of Science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIxvQMhttq4 Update |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:00am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:51am:
No they don't. 800ppm is double the current concentration and it's thought that tempratures would increase by 8 degrees. Is 8 degrees "negligible"? It probably is when we think of a rise from 293 Kelvin to 301 Kelvin It would still wipe out human civilization though |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:15am DonDeeHippy wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 6:36am:
You do have a link to climate change, I assume? Which cities? All cities? Some cities? |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:21am
CO2
Temperature Anomaly Arctic Sea Ice Greenland Ice Sheets Antarctic Ice Sheets Sea level Source: NASA |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:28am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:00am:
IF doubling added say 1.5C since before the industrial revolution ( the LIA is before the industrial revolution, CO2 is postulated to have increased since the LIA), then according to theory doubling would take it to about 450ppm. A further doubling to 900ppm would increase temperatures by 3.0C over the pre-industrial period. Are you now saying CO2 theory is incorrect? You do realise of course that the latest projections use RCP 8.5 often cited as business-as-usual. But RCP 8.5 is worst-case scenario. "RCP8.5 gets the most attention. It assumes the fastest population growth (a doubling of Earth’s population to 12 billion), the lowest rate of technology development, slow GDP growth, a massive increase in world poverty, plus high energy use and emissions." https://judithcurry.com/2015/12/13/a-closer-look-at-scenario-rcp8-5/ Over estimated coal use doi:10.1016/j.coal.2010.10.012 |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:33am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:00am:
Where are you getting this bullsh!t data from, I hope its not that scaremongering blog sKeptical science because they are anything BUT sceptical. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:40am |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:43am Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:21am:
AND.......?? No one is denying the Earth has warmed since the LIA. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:48am
AND? ...
It's not rocket science to put 2 and 2 together. ;) CO2 UP, Temperature UP, Arctic Ice cover DOWN, Ice-Sheets melting, Sea Level UP. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:51am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:33am:
It's already warmed 0.8o at 400ppm so I dont know where you got your data from 8 degrees was a typo on my part. It should read 4 degrees https://www.co2.earth/23-co2-future |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:53am Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:48am:
Is there any correlation between CO2 and temperature? (1).....On a small time scale (NO), (11,000 years) Showing from 200 to 11000 years ago, the subsequent graph is based on ice core data, readily visible in files hosted on the servers of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):GISP 2 and EPICA Dome C Graph-1 http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-history-a-look-at-multiple-timescales-in-the-context-of-the-shakun-et-al-paper/ (2).....On a medium time scale YES???, (450,000 years) (NO) , It appears so because of the scale we are zoomed out at. WARNING ! This is the scale that most global warming sites use to scare the unsuspecting. Over the past few hundred thousand years of ice core data, a “medium” time scale in this sense, CO2 superficially appears to change in step with temperature if a graph is so zoomed out as to not show sub-millennial time scales well Graph-2 http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-history-a-look-at-multiple-timescales-in-the-context-of-the-shakun-et-al-paper/ A record of temperature and atmospheric CO2 over the past 400,000 years is preserved in the Vostok Ice Core and is shown in the figure on the right. It can be seen that there have been a series of large fluctuations in temperature (the Ice Ages), accompanied by large changes in atmospheric CO2. It is thought that these large temperature fluctuations are triggered by Milankovitch cycles - variations in the earth's orbit that change the amount of energy from the sun that reaches us. However, on their own, these cycles are not enough to explain the changes in temperature. The full explanation seems to be that the small change in temperature caused by the changing orbit are amplified by natural processes on earth. These cause CO2 to be released from the oceans and the biosphere, causing an increased greenhouse effect. This is described more fully in this article from the New Scientist (see also Shackleton 2000). For more details on the timing of changes in CO2 and temperature, click on the figure. http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm#100,000years (3).....On a long time scale (NO) , (millions of years) Graph-3 [url]http://s155.n46.n171.n68.static.myhostcenter.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocarb_III-Berner.pdf[/urll] (4).....Lately |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:58am The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:51am:
Like all hypothesis and theories its a guess. Empirical data since the great prediction in 1990 that's 28 years of data collection suggest a rise of 1 degree celcius by end of this century. Back to the drawings board buddy............. ;) :D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by The_Barnacle on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:01pm
And once again Ajax spams us with his deceptive and thoroughly discredited graphs
You remind me of Yadda. You make your posts so incomprehensible that most people don't bother reading or responding. And you take that as a victory |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:02pm
Oh look using GRACE data to estimate global ice levels.
"Analysis of star camera errors in GRACE data and their impact on monthly gravity field models" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00190-015-0797-1 Greenland? As at August Above the mean Today Virtually on the mean. The Arctic? The Arctic was supposed to be ice free by 2008, 2013, 2016 Antarctica? "Mass gains of the Antarctic ice sheet exceed losses" https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciology/article/mass-gains-of-the-antarctic-ice-sheet-exceed-losses/983F196E23C3A6E7908E5FB32EB42268 |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:03pm
Ajax's Graph 2 is unreliable on temperature since a reliable thermometer was not in use until the 1850's. ;)
However, it is of interest to see from your chart that CO2 never got much above 300 ppm and a change from 200 to 300 took about 5,000 years. However, it has gone from 300 to over 400 in only 70 years. Doesn't that indicate to you that Man-made influence has dramatically accelerated the rise in CO2? |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:04pm The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:01pm:
So seeing as they are so thoroughly discredited it shouldn't be too much of an ask for you to show proof. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:11pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:03pm:
That's why it is called a reconstruction. And you notice it was by Michael E Mann doyen of "Climate Science"TM. And ignored the last 50 years of tree life and added thermometer records. Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:03pm:
That relies on Ice Core Data. which ignores plant stomata data. ;) Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:03pm:
Who has argued CO2 hasn't increased due to man's influence? Shoot the bugger. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:15pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:48am:
Obviously too you it is as good as. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:18pm lee wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:11pm:
Who has argued CO2 hasn't increased due to man's influence? Why, the very title of this thread makes that claim! ;) BTW ... how do you explain the massive jump from 300 ppm to over 400 ppm in only 70 years .... when prior to the industrialization of the planet, the figure hasn't got much above 300 as seen by the Chart 2 data? |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:20pm The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:51am:
Did you read the part that said - "Based on climate action pledges by UN member countries". China and India are UN member countries. China has a free pass until at least 2030. India has said it will do what is in the best interest of India. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:28pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Actually no it doesn't. You are confusing a statement on AGW and increasing CO2. Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:18pm:
You do have comprehension issues don't you? Burning of fossil fuels for one is a sign of man's influence. Of course there are other natural factors. Temperature increases, for whatever reason, mean oceans outgas more CO2. During the LIA the low CO2 rate led to crop shortages. Which led to starvation. You do understand the term CO2 starvation? And now some people want to go back to pre-industrial levels of CO2. ::) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:32pm
Exactly, burning fossil fuels and deforestation by humans has caused the CO2 atmospheric concentration to increase from about 300 ppm pre-industrial revolution to over 400 ppm post-industrial revolution.
Increased by around 33% at about 71 times faster than pre-industrial times. Case closed I venture. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:38pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:32pm:
Exactly wrong. Once again you are confusing CO2 and any AGW. How did they separate the AGW component from the natural component? You need at least two known parameters to determine a third. And again ignore plant stomata data. ;) How to determine man's influence versus greening of the planet? You really suck at logic, don't you. Like that rocket science - a bridge too far. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:41pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Are you blaming manmade emissions for all the increase in CO2 since the industrial revolution......???? Go back to the first page you will see that the rate of increase in CO2 per year follows what the natural CO2 path rather than what man is sending up into the atmosphere. We contribute but because the Earth has warmed since the LIA the increase in natural CO2 totally eclipses what we send up and we have tripled our emissions since 2000 yet the steady rise of atmospheric CO2/year still follows natural CO2 emissions..... :-* |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:46pm lee wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:38pm:
How do you explain the massive acceleration of CO2 into the atmosphere (post industrial revolution) if it isn't Human activity? From 300 ppm pre-industrialization to over 400 ppm post-industrialization. To say that it is "natural" is absurd, even for you. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:28pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:46pm:
Cognitive dissonance AGAIN? lee wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:28pm:
Greening of the planet means more CO2. More plants more CO2. "New research suggests plants could be releasing more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than previously thought." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-18/plant-respiration-co2-findings-anu-canberra/9163858 Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:46pm:
I didn't say it was ALL natural. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:30pm lee wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:28pm:
Ooh! A chink in your armour at last! ;) It ain't 'alf hot in here! |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:30pm:
What a dick. Where have I said anything else? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:58pm
So it is AGW then!
Good-oh 8-) Carry on. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:07pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 1:58pm:
That hasn't been proven. ;) Once again you are conflating CO2 and AGW. It seems you should be metaphorically be used as a computer. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:08pm
*
|
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:17pm lee wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
So when you asked who was arguing against AGW you already knew the answer ... it is you yourself. ;D Meanwhile ... 400+ ppm post industrial revolution compared to 300 ppm pre-industrial revolution. A jump 71 times faster than pre-industrial times going back 800,000 years. 33% higher than pre-industrial times. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:47pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:17pm:
Nope. I have said it was not proven. So sorry that you can't differentiate. ;D ;D ;D Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:17pm:
Yes petal. How much was natural; how much was anthropogenic? Have you got your head around the fact that CO2 is not AGW yet? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm
How much?
So you agree there is AGW happening. 8-) Are you like the person who thinks someone can be "a bit pregnant" though? ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:18pm
Ya know what?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that having atmospheric CO2 33% higher than at any time in the whole existence of the Human Species is probably not a good thing. Let's see if I'm right over the coming decades ... |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:34pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Nope I'm saying CO2 is going up. Haven't worked out the difference yet? Oh dear. ;D ;D ;D ;D Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
is that person you? ;D ;D ;D Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:18pm:
Do you really have accurate records for the last 400-500 thousand years? Any concantenation to get the data to fit, as in Marcott's 300 year smoothing only longer on a longer time frame, make your assumption laughable. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Do you have proof of that assertion? ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by TheFunPolice on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 6:35pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:18pm:
Lol, is that a fact? ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Bobby on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 6:52pm
What reason can be given for the 2 warm periods below?
There was no increase in CO2 before they occurred. The warmest part of the Medieval Warm Period was from about 950 until 1100 A.D. The warm climate overlaps with a time of high solar activity called the Medieval Maximum. The Medieval Warm Period occurred before the Little Ice Age, a time of cool climate in Europe and other places around the world. Roman Warm Period. The Roman Warm Period, or Roman Climatic Optimum, has been proposed as a period of unusually warm weather in Europe and the North Atlantic that ran from approximately 250 BC to AD 400. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:01pm Bobby. wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 6:52pm:
Lee: Quote:
You backing the view of a guy who just said this ??? He ruled out any measurement from either of these periods ? Funny he would do that when this is the thoroughly debunked line used by most climate change deniers (for want of a better term). |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:09pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:01pm:
It's you believers that have told us time after time that CO2 has been steady for how many years was it. How then do you explain the warm and cool periods in the last few thousand years. The only way it can be explained is CO2 influences temperature up to a certain point and not beyond, its called the logarithmic effect. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Ajax on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:19pm
.
|
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:27pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:01pm:
Yes. palaeontological data says that. It doesn't have the necessary fineness to rule in or or small changes. Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:01pm:
Perhaps you can give us a link to this "thoroughly debunked line"? barney seems unable. The fact that you don't have a better term says more about you than me. ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:27pm lee wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:27pm:
Well for a start you have clearly said that measurements for these periods have no validity ? Or is that only when you don't agree with what it shows. You are now clearly disagreeing with yourself. Lee. Quote:
If you want to deny others the right to use data from these time periods by putting doubt on its validity why should you be allowed to do the same thing ? Fact is that temperature in both these periods were high or low for known reasons that didn't relate to CO2 in the atmosphere. Nobody has ever said that CO2 is the only possible reason for high temperature and this argument is dependant on that clearly false assumption. The medieval warm period was caused by increased solar radiation. Little Ice age was caused by reduced sunspot activity coupled with an increase in active volcano eruptions. The fact that you don't have a better term says more about you than me. The term is relatively accurate but we could go for idiots if you prefer, I'd rather not. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:34pm Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:09pm:
The point I was making is that you are supporting Lee's view but he has clearly stated that the numbers you have used have no value. Apparently accurate enough records only go back a 150 years or so. But hold on it seems that he is now having 2 bob each way. Apparently the numbers are ok when used on his side of the argument. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 12:20pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:27pm:
Nope. That is not what I said. I said that paleo data because of the time spans involved don't show the fineness to assess any variations over small time spans. I even cited Marcott's temperature reconstruction, he used 300 year smoothing over a 2000 year time span. Now i'll let you imagine what smoothing would be used over a 500,000 year time span. You do understand smoothing means you lose data? Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:27pm:
No there are theories as to why they happened. Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:27pm:
You mean like the recent paper that said all of the warming since 1950 was anthropogenic? ;D ;D ;D ;D "Study: humans have caused all the global warming since 1950 " https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2016/apr/19/study-humans-have-caused-all-the-global-warming-since-1950 reported in the garudian so it must be true. Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:27pm:
Theory AKA supposition Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:27pm:
Theory aka supposition. Sunspot activity was low for over 300 years? The volcano activity one is really strange. It is posited on a 50 year volcanic episode of four eruptions. We know from recent large volcanic eruptions that the effects last possibly as long as four years. It leaves a long time span that is not covered. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 12:23pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Oh dear. failed comprehension again. ;D ;D ;D ;D Dnarever wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:34pm:
That's the way Climate ScienceTM operates. Like a station 1200 km away can be homogenized by other station data if it fails for a reason. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by DonDeeHippy on Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:01am Ajax wrote on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 10:45am:
so u agree we need to stop using fossil fuels as soon as posable other wise we will keep polluting our world ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 4th, 2018 at 11:29am DonDeeHippy wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:01am:
That would infer of course that there is a reliable replacement. The good old days - sailing ships, hot air balloons, pedal bicycles and shank's pony. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by DonDeeHippy on Dec 4th, 2018 at 9:05pm lee wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 11:29am:
;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D good one Lee , u forgot Hiking Boots |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 4th, 2018 at 9:16pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 9:05pm:
Hiking boots is what goes on shank's pony. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:10am |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:04pm
Cathy Wilcox has been drawing cartoons since she was old enough to scratch the furniture.
She honed her skills in the margins of school textbooks — always an eye out for squarish blank spaces. Oh look she has something in common with John Cook; he's a cartoonist too. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:08pm
Oh look ... you have something in common with the cartoon.
You're a climate change denying troglodyte. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:15pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:08pm:
Really? Where have I denied the climate doesn't change? ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:17pm
Now hear this: Whenever I mention Climate Change, you can take it that I'm talking about AGW.
Thanks. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:25pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:17pm:
Yes. And when have I said AGW doesn't exist? land clearance? UHI? All part of AGW. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:27pm
What's the other part of AGW? ;)
|
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by greggerypeccary on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:50pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:17pm:
I see. Well, at least you openly admit that you're closed-minded. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:53pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:27pm:
You tell us. Show us the proof. Correlation isn't causation. Remember that graph I showed from NOAA climate at a glance? 10 years flat. And all the while burgeoning CO2. How did that happen? How does CO2 cause cooling in Antarctica? The magic gas. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:39pm lee wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 12:20pm:
Lee: Quote:
Here is how you opened - this is the standard you required. not exactly a short time span as you seem to be now saying. You mentioned Marcott but it didn't seem to have context outside of your desire. Lee Quote:
You lose peaks and troughs not long term trends or averages the difference would make very little if any difference in the context needed here. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:46pm lee wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Quote:
With the low sun activity and repeted dominance of Lanina there should have been cooling, if you consider why that didn't happen you see the impact of global warming through a natural cooling period. We got a bit of a remission period which provided extra time to act not extra time to do nothing. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:50pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:39pm:
Oh dear. Can't differentiate between paleo and instrumental data. ;D ;D ;D Dnarever wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:39pm:
Got a reference for that or is it a gut feeling? If you lose the peaks and troughs it must have an effect. Depends on whether the peaks are higher or the troughs lower or vice versa. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:52pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
So natural variation can overcome the dreaded CO2. Who knew? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Dnarever on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm lee wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:50pm:
its not relevant - it is taken care of in the outcome. very basic. If the majority are positive peaks the overall outcome will be a bit higher and vice a versa. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:07pm
"Surely even climate change deniers must suspect they haven't thought things through after realising they're in furious agreement with Malcolm Roberts."
;D ;D ;D https://twitter.com/jonkudelka/status/1070181078265020416 |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:11pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm:
Exactly. It makes a difference. |
|
Title: Re: Climate Change NO Anthropogenic Global Warming.! Post by lee on Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:14pm Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:07pm:
You mean like the alarmists "97% of climate abstracts is the same as 97% of climate scientists"? And you still haven't come up with what Roberts had wrong. How bizarre is that? |
|
Australian Politics Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2! YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved. |