Netanyahu's claim that Israeli intelligence services have discovered 'documents' which prove that Iran is reneging on the nuclear deal is complete BS.

This is a strategy adopted by Trump and his Israeli counterparts to undermine Obama's legacy of the Iran nuclear deal.

Nothing will come from these supposed findings.

Netanyahu is a liar.

Iran would not renege on the deal. Why?

Do I really need to answer that question for you??

No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah.

issuevoter wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:25pm:

No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah.

You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good.

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:34pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good.

The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars???

Mr Hammer wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 5:47pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:34pm: issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good. The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars???

I have no idea what that means.

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:34pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good.

Well, obviously I know more than you. Curb radical Islam?Iran is run by religious fanatics. How you can dismiss this fact, defies objectivity.

Jewish people tell big lies. True fact.

issuevoter wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 7:11pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:34pm: issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good. Well, obviously I know more than you. Curb radical Islam?Iran is run by religious fanatics. How you can dismiss this fact, defies objectivity.

Really? If it's run by religious fanatics, then why can women vote in Iran? Why do Jews and Christians get seats in their Parliament??

I thought Islam was all about depriving women of their rights?? If so, Iran seems to be doing a bad job.

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 6:03pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 5:47pm: Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:34pm: issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good. The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars??? I have no idea what that means.

You need to open your eyes. Loads of people are starting to regarding the jews.

'The Jews.'  Nah.

This is the State of Israel being the aggressor it is.  Tasmania wants you Israel.....(I've given Tasmania an edict about that.)  The Muslim Arabs don't want you.  All you have is (US military) might, not right.

As soon as you Israel far cough, the sooner the West can get out of the Land of Arabs.

Just far cough Israel, and be grateful I have given you Tasmania.  I could have offered Siberia.

Quote:

Iran would not renege on the deal. Why? Do I really need to answer that question for you??

Yes please.

Aussie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 7:29pm:

'The Jews.'  Nah. This is the State of Israel being the aggressor it is.  Tasmania wants you Israel.....(I've given Tasmania an edict about that.)  The Muslim Arabs don't want you.  All you have is (US military) might, not right. As soon as you Israel far cough, the sooner the West can get out of the Land of Arabs. Just far cough Israel, and be grateful I have given you Tasmania.  I could have offered Siberia.

You know Arabs in Israel have more freedom and prosperity there than any other Arab in other Middle Eastern countries??

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Quote: Iran would not renege on the deal. Why? Do I really need to answer that question for you?? Yes please.

Do you honestly believe that Obama and his administration would have left any stone unturned?? You don't think that they considered this possibility and didn't account for it??

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:31pm:

freediver wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 8:30pm: Quote: Iran would not renege on the deal. Why? Do I really need to answer that question for you?? Yes please. Do you honestly believe that Obama and his administration would have left any stone unturned?? You don't think that they considered this possibility and didn't account for it??

Sure. There are plenty of unturned stones. It's actually very difficult to enforce laws in foreign countries.

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Aussie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 7:29pm: 'The Jews.'  Nah. This is the State of Israel being the aggressor it is.  Tasmania wants you Israel.....(I've given Tasmania an edict about that.)  The Muslim Arabs don't want you.  All you have is (US military) might, not right. As soon as you Israel far cough, the sooner the West can get out of the Land of Arabs. Just far cough Israel, and be grateful I have given you Tasmania.  I could have offered Siberia. You know Arabs in Israel have more freedom and prosperity there than any other Arab in other Middle Eastern countries??

Crap....they are second class citizens in Israel.

Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map.
Israel does not want Iran wiped off the map. Israel just wants Iran to be never in a position to fulfil its wish to wipe Israel off the map.

I'm  with Israel.   Whose side are you on?

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 3:29pm:

Netanyahu's claim that Israeli intelligence services have discovered 'documents' which prove that Iran is reneging on the nuclear deal is complete BS.

I had to laugh, this morning, at Netanyahu's "Steve Jobs" style presentation - ripping away the black cloths, to reveal an Officeworks display cabinet - and his framed CD collection

Didn't he learn anything from Rumsfeld and Powell's attempts to mislead the UN with "evidence" of Iran's stockpiles of "weapons of mass destruction" ?

Mr Hammer wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 5:47pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:34pm: issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good. The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars???

Seems to be the way they operate. But I could not blame them. Seems like the Israelis have to fight defensively against 500 million Arabs who don't want them around. And Israel needs to manipulate the non-Arab, non-Muslim world to fight their battles for them.

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 8:31pm: freediver wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 8:30pm: Quote: Iran would not renege on the deal. Why? Do I really need to answer that question for you?? Yes please. Do you honestly believe that Obama and his administration would have left any stone unturned?? You don't think that they considered this possibility and didn't account for it?? Sure. There are plenty of unturned stones. It's actually very difficult to enforce laws in foreign countries.

I would say that reneging on the deal is almost akin to a declaration of war. Making a serious breach of trust in international rules like that has serious consequences.

Let's see what happens. I think you'll find that there's nothing to this.

Aussie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:54pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 8:30pm: Aussie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 7:29pm: 'The Jews.'  Nah. This is the State of Israel being the aggressor it is.  Tasmania wants you Israel.....(I've given Tasmania an edict about that.)  The Muslim Arabs don't want you.  All you have is (US military) might, not right. As soon as you Israel far cough, the sooner the West can get out of the Land of Arabs. Just far cough Israel, and be grateful I have given you Tasmania.  I could have offered Siberia. You know Arabs in Israel have more freedom and prosperity there than any other Arab in other Middle Eastern countries?? Crap....they are second class citizens in Israel.

I'm sure that some people feel that way. Others don't feel that way. There are Arabs who sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, serve in Parliament, serve in the military, etc. I could show you a video of an Arab-Israeli who voluntarily served in the army after the radical faction of Hamas fired rockets on his home town.

I don't deny that some people feel oppressed, but the fact that many don't indicates that this is more complex that what you and I make it out to be. And it begs the question: "are they really legally and institutionally oppressed, or do they feel oppressed because of what's happening to their Palestinian kin next door???

EDIT: Not only that, you have to think about how Jewish minorities in those Arab countries have been treated. Certainly much worse than what Arabs are in Israel. I doubt any Jew has served on the highest court of authority in any Arab country.

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 9:04pm:

Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map. Israel does not want Iran wiped off the map. Israel just wants Iran to be never in a position to fulfil its wish to wipe Israel off the map. I'm  with Israel.   Whose side are you on?

I'm on the side of peace and stability. I will wait for the evidence to come out, but my suspicion is that this is one giant nothing-burger. Iran's not stupid enough to renege on a deal like that. The previous administration would've put measures in place to seriously pressure or punish Iran for reneging.

We'll see what happens.

UnSubRocky wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 6:38am:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 5:47pm: Auggie wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:34pm: issuevoter wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 4:25pm: No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah. You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good. The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars??? Seems to be the way they operate. But I could not blame them. Seems like the Israelis have to fight defensively against 500 million Arabs who don't want them around. And Israel needs to manipulate the non-Arab, non-Muslim world to fight their battles for them.

I don't deny that Israel is the target of extermination by some radical factions in the Arab world. It's also true that I believe that Iran has made strides in recent times to try and be less of a pariah than usual. Their current President is less radical than the former President, and there are indications that changes (although very slow) are coming and will continue to come.

Link.

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:04am:

Link.

Ok, so how do I reconcile what you've told and shown me with stories by Arab Israelis who feel that they're not discriminated against??? Doesn't this indicate that the picture is more complex than what we think it is??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-5xxZJxmA

According to Aussie's link, Israel offered citizenship to many Arabs within it's borders after the 6 day war, who refused the offer because they reject Israel's right to exist, but Israel still gives them municipal voting rights. Looks to me like they are treated better than Arabs in Arab countries.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:11am:

Aussie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:04am: Link. Ok, so how do I reconcile what you've told and shown me with stories by Arab Israelis who feel that they're not discriminated against??? Doesn't this indicate that the picture is more complex than what we think it is?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-5xxZJxmA

Dunno, never been to Israel.

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:18am:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:11am: Aussie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:04am: Link. Ok, so how do I reconcile what you've told and shown me with stories by Arab Israelis who feel that they're not discriminated against??? Doesn't this indicate that the picture is more complex than what we think it is?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-5xxZJxmA Dunno, never been to Israel.

Exactly, so don't you think that the picture is a little more complicated than what you make it out to be? I'm not saying that some people don't feel oppressed, or that they don't experience everyday discrimination from private individuals and organisations, but whether they experience institutional discrimination is not really clear, given that they can serve in the military and go to university.

I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:18am:

According to Aussie's link, Israel offered citizenship to many Arabs within it's borders after the 6 day war, who refused the offer because they reject Israel's right to exist, but Israel still gives them municipal voting rights. Looks to me like they are treated better than Arabs in Arab countries.

The article also states that Arabs are generally poorer than the average Israeli?? Do you also concede that many Arabs may experience 'private' discrimination??

Quote:

I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument.

If the State of Israel was moved to Tasmania, I doubt there would be many Israeli Arabs who would leave where they are.

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:25am:

Quote: I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument. If the State of Israel was moved to Tasmania, I doubt there would be many Israeli Arabs who would leave where they are.

But, that's not the reality of the situation. The reality is that Israel is where it is today, and that Arabs are living there now.

All I'm saying is that you need to consider the other side of the coin.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:29am:

Aussie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:25am: Quote: I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument. If the State of Israel was moved to Tasmania, I doubt there would be many Israeli Arabs who would leave where they are. But, that's not the reality of the situation. The reality is that Israel is where it is today, and that Arabs are living there now. All I'm saying is that you need to consider the other side of the coin.

If I was World Dictator, it would be immediate reality!   In one decisive blow, a serious and ongoing threat to World peace is removed.

Quote:

In one decisive blow, a serious and ongoing threat to World peace is removed.

Are you talking about people getting rid of the world dictator Aussie?

How many people would you have to kill to make your dream come true?

Quote:

The article also states that Arabs are generally poorer than the average Israeli?? Do you also concede that many Arabs may experience 'private' discrimination??

Arabs tend to be poor wherever they are. A lot of them are retarded due to inbreeding.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:44am:

Quote: In one decisive blow, a serious and ongoing threat to World peace is removed. Are you talking about people getting rid of the world dictator Aussie? How many people would you have to kill to make your dream come true?

Not one.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:46am:

Quote: The article also states that Arabs are generally poorer than the average Israeli?? Do you also concede that many Arabs may experience 'private' discrimination?? Arabs tend to be poor wherever they are. A lot of them are retarded due to inbreeding.

Really? Do you really believ me that or are you just being controversial?

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:46am: Quote: The article also states that Arabs are generally poorer than the average Israeli?? Do you also concede that many Arabs may experience 'private' discrimination?? Arabs tend to be poor wherever they are. A lot of them are retarded due to inbreeding. Really? Do you really believ me that or are you just being controversial?

FD is correct, Pakistanis and Indians also have these issues due to inbreeding.

Quote:

Saudi Arabia Awakes to the Perils of Inbreeding Spinal muscular atrophy and the gene that causes it, along with several other serious genetic disorders, are common in Saudi Arabia, where women have an average of six children and where in some regions more than half of the marriages are between close relatives. Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh.

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/01/world/saudi-arabia-awakes-to-the-perils-of-inbreeding.html

rhino wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 12:57pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 12:54pm: freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:46am: Quote: The article also states that Arabs are generally poorer than the average Israeli?? Do you also concede that many Arabs may experience 'private' discrimination?? Arabs tend to be poor wherever they are. A lot of them are retarded due to inbreeding. Really? Do you really believ me that or are you just being controversial? FD is correct, Pakistanis and Indians also have these issues due to inbreeding. [quote]Saudi Arabia Awakes to the Perils of Inbreeding Spinal muscular atrophy and the gene that causes it, along with several other serious genetic disorders, are common in Saudi Arabia, where women have an average of six children and where in some regions more than half of the marriages are between close relatives. Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh.

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/01/world/saudi-arabia-awakes-to-the-perils-of-inbreeding.html[/quote]

The fact that you would raise that as an issue and attribute that to poverty is just startling.

whats so startling? Lower IQ people tend to be poorer wherever you go.

And, by the way, this is causing enormous issues for the public health system in the UK where it has been shown Muslims use 4 times more health resources than others due to illness and genetic defects related to inbreeding.

rhino wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:15pm:

whats so startling? Lower IQ people tend to be poorer wherever you go.

Rhino, I'm finding it difficult to argue this point on your level, but I'll do my best.

First, inbreeding is to due poverty and/or lack of education. I highly doubt that rich Arabs who are well educated are marrying their first cousins.

Second, attributing poverty to genetics without taking into consider institutional and social factors is frankly 'uneducated' and 'stupid'. Sure, social factors don't account for 100% of the reason, but it often accounts for a large percentage of the reason, and often the majority.

In the case of Israel, whilst institutional oppression may not exist, mass social discrimination does exist, and this is what accounts for the problems of the Arab people.

Finally, what role genetics plays in intelligence is not really known. I know so many people whose parents, grandparents and the like never went to university, couldn't speak a word of English, but yet the following generations were highly successful. What does this tell you? That social and institutional factors play a significant role in how successful people are.

And finally, Australia is full of people with a low IQ, and that doesn't stop them from earning mega bucks as a plumber or a tradie, whilst a smart and educated person who goes through uni is out of job. Modern Australian society has made it possible for dumb people to be rich, which is totally fine because it's progress and I accept that.

rhino wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:20pm:

And, by the way, this is causing enormous issues for the public health system in the UK where it has been shown Muslims use 4 times more health resources than others due to illness and genetic defects related to inbreeding.

So, should we deny use of a public health system to people who make poor choices?

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:30pm:

rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:20pm: And, by the way, this is causing enormous issues for the public health system in the UK where it has been shown Muslims use 4 times more health resources than others due to illness and genetic defects related to inbreeding. So, should we deny use of a public health system to people who make poor choices?

Yes. If they wish to continue their unsavoury cultural habits I see no reason for them to do it at our expense.

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 12:09pm:

freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 11:44am: Quote: In one decisive blow, a serious and ongoing threat to World peace is removed. Are you talking about people getting rid of the world dictator Aussie? How many people would you have to kill to make your dream come true? Not one.

I think what you're saying is that if you change the course of history, then you would do what is necessary to ensure that the situation never occurred.

But, what I would encourage you to think about is the consequences of any time travel. If the Jewish people didn't have their own homeland, would anti-semitism be high in many Western countries?? Would we actually be doing more harm to the Jewish people for the benefit of another group of people.

Many people say that 'killing Hitler' is Time Travel 101, but if you did that, then American would never be a superpower; Britain would probably still be an empire, etc.

rhino wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:33pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:30pm: rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:20pm: And, by the way, this is causing enormous issues for the public health system in the UK where it has been shown Muslims use 4 times more health resources than others due to illness and genetic defects related to inbreeding. So, should we deny use of a public health system to people who make poor choices? Yes. If they wish to continue their unsavoury cultural habits I see no reason for them to do it at our expense.

That's not what a compassionate and humane society does, Rhino. You think that preventing these people from having healthcare is likely to exacerbate their current condition or ameliorate it??

Survival of the fittest, innit it?

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm:

rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:15pm: whats so startling? Lower IQ people tend to be poorer wherever you go. Rhino, I'm finding it difficult to argue this point on your level, but I'll do my best. First, inbreeding is to due poverty and/or lack of education. I highly doubt that rich Arabs who are well educated are marrying their first cousins. Second, attributing poverty to genetics without taking into consider institutional and social factors is frankly 'uneducated' and 'stupid'. Sure, social factors don't account for 100% of the reason, but it often accounts for a large percentage of the reason, and often the majority. In the case of Israel, whilst institutional oppression may not exist, mass social discrimination does exist, and this is what accounts for the problems of the Arab people. Finally, what role genetics plays in intelligence is not really known. I know so many people whose parents, grandparents and the like never went to university, couldn't speak a word of English, but yet the following generations were highly successful. What does this tell you? That social and institutional factors play a significant role in how successful people are. And finally, Australia is full of people with a low IQ, and that doesn't stop them from earning mega bucks as a plumber or a tradie, whilst a smart and educated person who goes through uni is out of job. Modern Australian society has made it possible for dumb people to be rich, which is totally fine because it's progress and I accept that.

I will give you the same advice I just gave Ozzy, research first. Im not going to debate easily refuted factual information anyone can access, thats just laziness on your part. Let google be your friend, youve been led to water.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:34pm:

rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:33pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:30pm: rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:20pm: And, by the way, this is causing enormous issues for the public health system in the UK where it has been shown Muslims use 4 times more health resources than others due to illness and genetic defects related to inbreeding. So, should we deny use of a public health system to people who make poor choices? Yes. If they wish to continue their unsavoury cultural habits I see no reason for them to do it at our expense. That's not what a compassionate and humane society does, Rhino. You think that preventing these people from having healthcare is likely to exacerbate their current condition or ameliorate it?? Survival of the fittest, innit it?

The medical profession already refuses some types of health care to those who refuse to change their lifestyle, this is no different, the health budget is not unlimited.

rhino wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:35pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:29pm: rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:15pm: whats so startling? Lower IQ people tend to be poorer wherever you go. Rhino, I'm finding it difficult to argue this point on your level, but I'll do my best. First, inbreeding is to due poverty and/or lack of education. I highly doubt that rich Arabs who are well educated are marrying their first cousins. Second, attributing poverty to genetics without taking into consider institutional and social factors is frankly 'uneducated' and 'stupid'. Sure, social factors don't account for 100% of the reason, but it often accounts for a large percentage of the reason, and often the majority. In the case of Israel, whilst institutional oppression may not exist, mass social discrimination does exist, and this is what accounts for the problems of the Arab people. Finally, what role genetics plays in intelligence is not really known. I know so many people whose parents, grandparents and the like never went to university, couldn't speak a word of English, but yet the following generations were highly successful. What does this tell you? That social and institutional factors play a significant role in how successful people are. And finally, Australia is full of people with a low IQ, and that doesn't stop them from earning mega bucks as a plumber or a tradie, whilst a smart and educated person who goes through uni is out of job. Modern Australian society has made it possible for dumb people to be rich, which is totally fine because it's progress and I accept that. I will give you the same advice I just gave Ozzy, research first. Im not going to debate easily refuted factual information anyone can access, thats just laziness on your part. Let google be your friend, youve been led to water.

Rhino, I don't dispute the facts, I dispute your conclusions.

rhino wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:36pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:34pm: rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:33pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:30pm: rhino wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:20pm: And, by the way, this is causing enormous issues for the public health system in the UK where it has been shown Muslims use 4 times more health resources than others due to illness and genetic defects related to inbreeding. So, should we deny use of a public health system to people who make poor choices? Yes. If they wish to continue their unsavoury cultural habits I see no reason for them to do it at our expense. That's not what a compassionate and humane society does, Rhino. You think that preventing these people from having healthcare is likely to exacerbate their current condition or ameliorate it?? Survival of the fittest, innit it? The medical profession already refuses some types of health care to those who refuse to change their lifestyle, this is no different, the health budget is not unlimited.

Can you give me an example? Or is that too much to ask?

Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:40pm:

Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people.

Or they were sick of the current system.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:41pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system.

If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:44pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something.

Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:48pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:44pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something. Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders.

Funny how people are so narrow-minded when it comes to these things. So many of America's political issues could be resolved by implementing sound reforms to their Constitution, but no talk of this happening has ever occurred.

Funny that you're not saying anything about the issue of pork-barrel spending projects, which have thrown the Government into debt; or that powerful lawmakers use riders to circumvent the integrity of the legislative process?? Do you even know what these terms mean? Pork-barrelling? Riders??

Let me ask you a real and proper question: what would you do to prevent/reduce pork-barrel spending projects, or prevent riders from being a political reality.

I suspect that you're not going to answer the question, because unlike me you avoid tough questions you can't  answer.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:53pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:48pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:44pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something. Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders. Funny how people are so narrow-minded when it comes to these things. So many of America's political issues could be resolved by implementing sound reforms to their Constitution, but no talk of this happening has ever occurred. Funny that you're not saying anything about the issue of pork-barrel spending projects, which have thrown the Government into debt; or that powerful lawmakers use riders to circumvent the integrity of the legislative process?? Do you even know what these terms mean? Pork-barrelling? Riders?? Let me ask you a real and proper question: what would you do to prevent/reduce pork-barrel spending projects, or prevent riders from being a political reality. I suspect that you're not going to answer the question, because unlike me you avoid tough questions you can't  answer.

I can't answer that because I'm not from that part of society where it is relevant to me. That's the issue with the US and Australia is the same. Our countries are so divided socially that we don't understand one another. The further down the ladder you go things like tax , medical care , education are important but the inner workings of our economic system just aren't on peoples mines. It's more base survival. The reason why Trump got in was because of this divide and distance in his country.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:40pm:

Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people.

Does that include the ones that previously voted for Obama? 

An assumption that voters in a rust belt did not vote for Clinton because they are retarded is a retarded argument to mount.

It would be a rational decision to not vote a candidate that showed little interest, promised more of the same and called you a deplorable compared to someone who if nothing else, promised to shake up a system in which you were losing and going backwards anyway. 

Your assumption that voters voted the way they did because they are retarded speaks more to your lack of critical thinking and empathy.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:16pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:53pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:48pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:44pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something. Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders. Funny how people are so narrow-minded when it comes to these things. So many of America's political issues could be resolved by implementing sound reforms to their Constitution, but no talk of this happening has ever occurred. Funny that you're not saying anything about the issue of pork-barrel spending projects, which have thrown the Government into debt; or that powerful lawmakers use riders to circumvent the integrity of the legislative process?? Do you even know what these terms mean? Pork-barrelling? Riders?? Let me ask you a real and proper question: what would you do to prevent/reduce pork-barrel spending projects, or prevent riders from being a political reality. I suspect that you're not going to answer the question, because unlike me you avoid tough questions you can't  answer. I can't answer that because I'm not from that part of society where it is relevant to me. That's the issue with the US and Australia is the same. Our countries are so divided socially that we don't understand one another. The further down the ladder you go things like tax , medical care , education are important but the inner workings of our economic system just aren't on peoples mines. It's more base survival. The reason why Trump got in was because of this divide and distance in his country.

I'm glad you're being honest.

May I then suggest that you think about ACTUAL problems in the American political process, rather than following the old mantra of 'Trump got elected because were sick and tired'.

Also, Trump got elected because he was able to appeal to the emotions of the voter. You may not like this fact, but the truth is that voters are more motivated by emotion than they are by logic and reason. His inflammatory statements about migrants etc. resonated with people who feel the same way he does, and there's a lot of them in America.

As Winston Churchill said: "The biggest argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Trump is proof of that fact.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:21pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:16pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:53pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:48pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:44pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something. Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders. Funny how people are so narrow-minded when it comes to these things. So many of America's political issues could be resolved by implementing sound reforms to their Constitution, but no talk of this happening has ever occurred. Funny that you're not saying anything about the issue of pork-barrel spending projects, which have thrown the Government into debt; or that powerful lawmakers use riders to circumvent the integrity of the legislative process?? Do you even know what these terms mean? Pork-barrelling? Riders?? Let me ask you a real and proper question: what would you do to prevent/reduce pork-barrel spending projects, or prevent riders from being a political reality. I suspect that you're not going to answer the question, because unlike me you avoid tough questions you can't  answer. I can't answer that because I'm not from that part of society where it is relevant to me. That's the issue with the US and Australia is the same. Our countries are so divided socially that we don't understand one another. The further down the ladder you go things like tax , medical care , education are important but the inner workings of our economic system just aren't on peoples mines. It's more base survival. The reason why Trump got in was because of this divide and distance in his country. I'm glad you're being honest. May I then suggest that you think about ACTUAL problems in the American political process, rather than following the old mantra of 'Trump got elected because were sick and tired'. Also, Trump got elected because he was able to appeal to the emotions of the voter. You may not like this fact, but the truth is that voters are more motivated by emotion than they are by logic and reason. His inflammatory statements about migrants etc. resonated with people who feel the same way he does, and there's a lot of them in America. As Winston Churchill said: "The biggest argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Trump is proof of that fact.

He spoke about what's on peoples minds. If the elite aren't going to address Americas concerns then more Trumps will get in. Most people are simple and the system is simple but we have complicated it. We all chuck in so our society functions for the most people. The US has complicated it so that a minority of people are going great but the majority are struggling. What do you expect is going to happen? Make the system fairer and listen to peoples concerns. That's all they have to do. Otherwise don't whinge when things don't go your way. It's not a impossible task. It's the way it should be.

Secret Wars wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:21pm:

Does that include the ones that previously voted for Obama?  An assumption that voters in a rust belt did not vote for Clinton because they are retarded is a retarded argument to mount. It would be a rational decision to not vote a candidate that showed little interest, promised more of the same and called you a deplorable compared to someone who if nothing else, promised to shake up a system in which you were losing and going backwards anyway.  Your assumption that voters voted the way they did because they are retarded speaks more to your lack of critical thinking and empathy.

Ok, let's break this down rationally, shall we? Can you do that?

First, let's look at the election messages they gave: Obama espoused a message of unity and harmony; Trump a message of divisiveness and disunity.

Second, let's look at the policies that Obama passed, his main one: Obamacare, which was the first step toward a universal healthcare system. Do you oppose universal healthcare??

Third, let's look at what Trump promised to do: he promised to shake up the establishment, drain the swap. Hasn't happened. He has appointed the richest Cabinet in American history. He has made no attempts to reform America's political system, or its Federal structure.

Fourth, let's look at how they communicate: Obama was a much better communicator than Trump.
----
Your turn.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:26pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:21pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:16pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:53pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:48pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:44pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something. Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders. Funny how people are so narrow-minded when it comes to these things. So many of America's political issues could be resolved by implementing sound reforms to their Constitution, but no talk of this happening has ever occurred. Funny that you're not saying anything about the issue of pork-barrel spending projects, which have thrown the Government into debt; or that powerful lawmakers use riders to circumvent the integrity of the legislative process?? Do you even know what these terms mean? Pork-barrelling? Riders?? Let me ask you a real and proper question: what would you do to prevent/reduce pork-barrel spending projects, or prevent riders from being a political reality. I suspect that you're not going to answer the question, because unlike me you avoid tough questions you can't  answer. I can't answer that because I'm not from that part of society where it is relevant to me. That's the issue with the US and Australia is the same. Our countries are so divided socially that we don't understand one another. The further down the ladder you go things like tax , medical care , education are important but the inner workings of our economic system just aren't on peoples mines. It's more base survival. The reason why Trump got in was because of this divide and distance in his country. I'm glad you're being honest. May I then suggest that you think about ACTUAL problems in the American political process, rather than following the old mantra of 'Trump got elected because were sick and tired'. Also, Trump got elected because he was able to appeal to the emotions of the voter. You may not like this fact, but the truth is that voters are more motivated by emotion than they are by logic and reason. His inflammatory statements about migrants etc. resonated with people who feel the same way he does, and there's a lot of them in America. As Winston Churchill said: "The biggest argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Trump is proof of that fact. I spoke about what's on peoples minds. If the elite aren't going to address Americas concerns then more Trumps will get in. Most people are simple and the system is simple but we have complicated it. We all chuck in so our society functions for the most people. The US has complicated it so that a minority of people are going great but the majority are struggling. What do you expect is going to happen? Make the system fairer and listen to peoples concerns. That's all they have to do. Otherwise don't whinge when things don't go your way.

Exactly. Another major issue is the influence of money in politics. The fact that America has not had a system of universal healthcare until Obamacare is testament to this. American should've had a universal healthcare system a long time ago.

Trump isn't the answer (although I could be wrong). Obama passed the biggest legislation made by any president since FDR.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:29pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:26pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:21pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:16pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:53pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:48pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:44pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:41pm: Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:40pm: Also, speaking of retardation, the fact that so many Americans voted for Trump and he won indicates mass retardation on the part of the American people. Or they were sick of the current system. If they were sick of the system, Hammer, there were other ways that they could've fixed it. Like, for example, implementing my changes that I have proposed in the thread 'America's Political System is Broke: Fix it!" You should check it out. I'm sure you could learn something. Do you blame the American people for not wanting another Bush or Clinton?? I don't. Maybe you have it the wrong way around. Instead of being retarded they were actually smart. Nothing changes if you keep voting in the same type of leaders. Funny how people are so narrow-minded when it comes to these things. So many of America's political issues could be resolved by implementing sound reforms to their Constitution, but no talk of this happening has ever occurred. Funny that you're not saying anything about the issue of pork-barrel spending projects, which have thrown the Government into debt; or that powerful lawmakers use riders to circumvent the integrity of the legislative process?? Do you even know what these terms mean? Pork-barrelling? Riders?? Let me ask you a real and proper question: what would you do to prevent/reduce pork-barrel spending projects, or prevent riders from being a political reality. I suspect that you're not going to answer the question, because unlike me you avoid tough questions you can't  answer. I can't answer that because I'm not from that part of society where it is relevant to me. That's the issue with the US and Australia is the same. Our countries are so divided socially that we don't understand one another. The further down the ladder you go things like tax , medical care , education are important but the inner workings of our economic system just aren't on peoples mines. It's more base survival. The reason why Trump got in was because of this divide and distance in his country. I'm glad you're being honest. May I then suggest that you think about ACTUAL problems in the American political process, rather than following the old mantra of 'Trump got elected because were sick and tired'. Also, Trump got elected because he was able to appeal to the emotions of the voter. You may not like this fact, but the truth is that voters are more motivated by emotion than they are by logic and reason. His inflammatory statements about migrants etc. resonated with people who feel the same way he does, and there's a lot of them in America. As Winston Churchill said: "The biggest argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Trump is proof of that fact. I spoke about what's on peoples minds. If the elite aren't going to address Americas concerns then more Trumps will get in. Most people are simple and the system is simple but we have complicated it. We all chuck in so our society functions for the most people. The US has complicated it so that a minority of people are going great but the majority are struggling. What do you expect is going to happen? Make the system fairer and listen to peoples concerns. That's all they have to do. Otherwise don't whinge when things don't go your way. Exactly. Another major issue is the influence of money in politics. The fact that America has not had a system of universal healthcare until Obamacare is testament to this. American should've had a universal healthcare system a long time ago. Trump isn't the answer (although I could be wrong). Obama passed the biggest legislation made by any president since FDR.

People are funny about forking out tax for it's massive underclass . The US underclass is unhealthy and is a major money drain. That's part of the immigration argument that Trump unleashed. The problem with Obama is that he mostly aimed at the underclass and the elites and bypassed the middle class majority. It was his mistake.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:32pm:

People are funny about forking out tax for it's massive underclass . The US underclass is unhealthy and is a major money drain. That's part of the immigration argument that Trump unleashed. The problem with Obama is that he mostly aimed at the underclass and the elites and bypassed the middle class majority. It was his mistake.

I don't know what you're referring to. America has no system of unemployment benefits like Australia, UK or Canada has. If you're able-bodied and out of work, you get bugger-all financial assistance from the Government.

Where the government does provide assistance is to poor families; they also provide food stamps (which I grant is like a welfare payment) but recipients are entitled to around $80 per fortnight (I think).

Another welfare measure is the 'earned income tax credit' which is a refund for poor families.

Overall, America's welfare system is pretty crap.

Second, I'm not familiar with any welfare measures that Obama implemented, unless you're talking about Obamacare, which is providing funding for a universal healthcare service. I don't see what's wrong with the government helping people to get access to necessities.

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:37pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:32pm: People are funny about forking out tax for it's massive underclass . The US underclass is unhealthy and is a major money drain. That's part of the immigration argument that Trump unleashed. The problem with Obama is that he mostly aimed at the underclass and the elites and bypassed the middle class majority. It was his mistake. I don't know what you're referring to. America has no system of unemployment benefits like Australia, UK or Canada has. If you're able-bodied and out of work, you get bugger-all financial assistance from the Government. Where the government does provide assistance is to poor families; they also provide food stamps (which I grant is like a welfare payment) but recipients are entitled to around $80 per fortnight (I think). Another welfare measure is the 'earned income tax credit' which is a refund for poor families. Overall, America's welfare system is pretty crap. Second, I'm not familiar with any welfare measures that Obama implemented, unless you're talking about Obamacare, which is providing funding for a universal healthcare service. I don't see what's wrong with the government helping people to get access to necessities.

The US pretty much had it's  southern boarder down under Obama and peoples tax  ended up supporting this in different ways. I doubt the American people liked that too much. It's not the wealthy that support the underclass auggie. It's the middle class. That's what you need to understand. All you have to do is see where Hillary got her votes and Trump got his and everything is explained.

Mr Hammer wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:

Auggie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:37pm: Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 2:32pm: People are funny about forking out tax for it's massive underclass . The US underclass is unhealthy and is a major money drain. That's part of the immigration argument that Trump unleashed. The problem with Obama is that he mostly aimed at the underclass and the elites and bypassed the middle class majority. It was his mistake. I don't know what you're referring to. America has no system of unemployment benefits like Australia, UK or Canada has. If you're able-bodied and out of work, you get bugger-all financial assistance from the Government. Where the government does provide assistance is to poor families; they also provide food stamps (which I grant is like a welfare payment) but recipients are entitled to around $80 per fortnight (I think). Another welfare measure is the 'earned income tax credit' which is a refund for poor families. Overall, America's welfare system is pretty crap. Second, I'm not familiar with any welfare measures that Obama implemented, unless you're talking about Obamacare, which is providing funding for a universal healthcare service. I don't see what's wrong with the government helping people to get access to necessities. The US pretty much had it's  southern boarder down under Obama and peoples tax  ended up supporting this in different ways. I doubt the American people liked that too much. It's not the wealthy that support the underclass auggie. It's the middle class. That's what you need to understand. All you have to do is see where Hillary got her votes and Trump got his and everything is explained.

Look, I agree that mass migration into America is an issue, and it's something which Obama should've tackled. The problem is that the Democratic party has many Hispanic constituents who are in favour of these migrations, and it would be political suicide to oppose them. The Republicans would also be wary of opposing them as well, given the size of their constituency.

The point is that this is difficult to undo.