Yes ive read, global warming is bad, will happen , also is good or just isn't going to happen.
I put it in the same category as if god is real and evolution, I just don't know enough myself and depends on what site I goto either argument sounds fine.
What I've noticed as long as there is the climate change debate happening no one seams to talk about the poisons emited eg  nitrogen oxide and even smog.
Its very easy to say there is no global warming and forget about what the skys r like around the huge cities of the world .
I guess what I'm saying is that if I made money out of a product that poisoned ppl, id be looking for a distraction that everyone could fight over.
Heaven forbid if everyone was on the same page about getting pollutants out of the air

I am totally against stinking coal fired power stations.

See my thread on Thorium power!
That could be the answer to cheap, safe unlimitless power.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1519823686/0#0

almost all the gen4 generators look good, I like they have closed systems and able to reuse existing waste, still look 10-15 years away
As much as I like them id like to see they do as they say, I'm always worried about when engineers say we finally got it right no side effects
In the mean time costs r falling for other renewables

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 10:21am:

almost all the gen4 generators look good, I like they have closed systems and able to reuse existing waste, still look 10-15 years away As much as I like them id like to see they do as they say, I'm always worried about when engineers say we finally got it right no side effects In the mean time costs r falling for other renewables

Is that taking into account battery backup to, partially, cover for intermittency?

What should be the mix of fossil fuelled to renewables to cover intermittency for say 95% of the time?

Coal fire is the way to go!

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 10:21am: almost all the gen4 generators look good, I like they have closed systems and able to reuse existing waste, still look 10-15 years away As much as I like them id like to see they do as they say, I'm always worried about when engineers say we finally got it right no side effects In the mean time costs r falling for other renewables Is that taking into account battery backup to, partially, cover for intermittency? What should be the mix of fossil fuelled to renewables to cover intermittency for say 95% of the time?

well I suppose look at what other countries r doing and see how its working, I think the thing its all about is getting rid of poisons in the air.
This post is do u think the global warming argument smoke screens the fact of poisons in the air ?

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Coal fire is the way to go!

even when new renewable  energy is cheaper than coal ?

i guess get rid of all polution removing devises on vehicals too and bring back kero heats at winter too

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:42am:

Yes ive read, global warming is bad, will happen , also is good or just isn't going to happen. I put it in the same category as if god is real and evolution, I just don't know enough myself and depends on what site I goto either argument sounds fine. What I've noticed as long as there is the climate change debate happening no one seams to talk about the poisons emited eg  nitrogen oxide and even smog. Its very easy to say there is no global warming and forget about what the skys r like around the huge cities of the world . I guess what I'm saying is that if I made money out of a product that poisoned ppl, id be looking for a distraction that everyone could fight over. Heaven forbid if everyone was on the same page about getting pollutants out of the air

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 11:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:32am: Ahh I see it looks like they made about 200 million last year on them, of course if the other car manufactures gave a damn about pollution Tesla wouldn't make a cent. That is only of you believe CO2 is pollution. Ever considered CO2 is an essential gas?

case in point a quote from another thread today
bring co2 into and argument it is closed, don't mention all the other noxious gases or particles and u have a winner

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:42am:

Yes ive read, global warming is bad, will happen , also is good or just isn't going to happen. I put it in the same category as if god is real and evolution, I just don't know enough myself and depends on what site I goto either argument sounds fine. What I've noticed as long as there is the climate change debate happening no one seams to talk about the poisons emited eg  nitrogen oxide and even smog. Its very easy to say there is no global warming and forget about what the skys r like around the huge cities of the world . I guess what I'm saying is that if I made money out of a product that poisoned ppl, id be looking for a distraction that everyone could fight over. Heaven forbid if everyone was on the same page about getting pollutants out of the air

Combustion of fossil fuels does generate pollution, Sox, Nox, soot and others which is detrimental to the environment.

But I don't consider CO2 a pollutant, we drink it in our beer we breathe it in and out, do we drink pollution.....???

CO2 greens our planet, I'm sure you know CO2 is to plants what O2 is to us humans.

Do some checks look into our HISTORY nowhere will you find  a period where CO2 has correlated with the elevation of global mean average temperature.

Has the Earth warmed yes it has no one can deny this but its not because man is burning fossil fuels.

Can the increase in atmospheric CO2 be solely attributed to man burning fossil fuels, NO, when the Earth heats up as it is doing CO2 sinks release more natural CO2 into the atmosphere, YES we have contributed but in comparison with the natural CO2 being emitted from the warming its very minor even to register.

Demonizing CO2 is the oligarchy's way of taxing all people on Earth on the air they breathe.

Ajax wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:42am: Yes ive read, global warming is bad, will happen , also is good or just isn't going to happen. I put it in the same category as if god is real and evolution, I just don't know enough myself and depends on what site I goto either argument sounds fine. What I've noticed as long as there is the climate change debate happening no one seams to talk about the poisons emited eg  nitrogen oxide and even smog. Its very easy to say there is no global warming and forget about what the skys r like around the huge cities of the world . I guess what I'm saying is that if I made money out of a product that poisoned ppl, id be looking for a distraction that everyone could fight over. Heaven forbid if everyone was on the same page about getting pollutants out of the air Combustion of fossil fuels does generate pollution, Sox, Nox, soot and others which is detrimental to the environment. But I don't consider CO2 a pollutant, we drink it in our beer we breathe it in and out, do we drink pollution.....??? CO2 greens our planet, I'm sure you know CO2 is to plants what O2 is to us humans. Do some checks look into our HISTORY nowhere will you find  a period where CO2 has correlated with the elevation of global mean average temperature. Has the Earth warmed yes it has no one can deny this but its not because man is burning fossil fuels. Can the increase in atmospheric CO2 be solely attributed to man burning fossil fuels, NO, when the Earth heats up as it is doing CO2 sinks release more natural CO2 into the atmosphere, YES we have contributed but in comparison with the natural CO2 being emitted from the warming its very minor even to register. Demonizing CO2 is the oligarchy's way of taxing all people on Earth on the air they breathe.

Yes I couldn't agree with u more... well until I read about how it is so damaging and back and forth until I die of respiratory disease from smog.
Again if I was a fossil burning company id love you concentrating on that instead of the real issues.
Just remember Low tare cigarettes r much better for u

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:25pm:

I think the thing its all about is getting rid of poisons in the air.

You have heard of the filters attached to modern coal fired power stations?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 11:51am: Coal fire is the way to go! even when new renewable  energy is cheaper than coal ? i guess get rid of all polution removing devises on vehicals too and bring back kero heats at winter too

But it’s not cheaper than coal. When maintenance, spare parts, repairs, shipments, upgrades, re-tooling of bearings, labour costs, licences, registration costs, safety inspections, administrative costs, the laying and maintenance costs of thousands of miles of new cables is accounted for, in the final wash-up it’s WAY more expensive than running coal fired stations that already have all the infrastructure in place and ready to operate at a moment’s notice.

The Greenies’ wet dream comes at a price WAY above that of running coal, and it’s utterly farcical that we export coal to China and elsewhere while we ourself are being prohibited from using it.

Whatever happened to “Australia, the Clever Country” ?

Except for Abbott and Dutton, our political leadership is composed of idiots and ideological drones.

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:25pm: I think the thing its all about is getting rid of poisons in the air. You have heard of the filters attached to modern coal fired power stations?

Ok im trying to find out about them in Aussie power stations ive tried googling even your words with australia i cant find it
I did however find this artical and im within 50km of one.....

news ,com,au/news/report-finds-us-china-and-the-eu-have-higher-standards-for-air-pollution-caused-by-power-stations-than-australia/news-story
if its true the filters r not well here i Australia

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 3:36pm:

Ok im trying to find out about them in Aussie power stations ive tried googling even your words with australia i cant find it I did however find this artical and im within 50km of one..... news ,com,au/news/report-finds-us-china-and-the-eu-have-higher-standards-for-air-poll ution-caused-by-power-stations-than-australia/news-story if its true the filters r not well here i Australia

Now try to find when Australia last built a coal fired power station. ;)

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:29pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 11:51am: Coal fire is the way to go! even when new renewable  energy is cheaper than coal ? i guess get rid of all polution removing devises on vehicals too and bring back kero heats at winter too But it’s not cheaper than coal. When maintenance, spare parts, repairs, shipments, upgrades, re-tooling of bearings, labour costs, licences, registration costs, safety inspections, administrative costs, the laying and maintenance costs of thousands of miles of new cables is accounted for, in the final wash-up it’s WAY more expensive than running coal fired stations that already have all the infrastructure in place and ready to operate at a moment’s notice. The Greenies’ wet dream comes at a price WAY above that of running coal, and it’s utterly farcical that we export coal to China and elsewhere while we ourself are being prohibited from using it. Whatever happened to “Australia, the Clever Country” ? Except for Abbott and Dutton, our political leadership is composed of idiots and ideological drones.

ohhh my a nerve has been hit, I live near a big coal power station and  they have regular shut downs and rebuild the furnaces and its great bring lots of workers into the town ,takes about 6 weeks every 18 months, is this the kind of maintenance u mean ? Rebuild bearings in a solar plant, maybe a few panels could break down but unlikely and even home ones r under a 30 year guarantee, no moving parts ,no corrosive ash ruining pipes or high pressure weakening parts.
Yeah wind generators would need bearings but no combustion damage or pressure damage,
Thousands of miles of new cables ? where do u think they will install them.
If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make.
All the other costs u r mentioning is with any new power source , lots of existing power plants are just getting to old and need rebuilding how would renewable need more money ?
We make coal so should use it...... we make lots of sunshine and wind too....... hmmm
I can see how saying all that stuff fast came make it seam real but come back with how much a new coal or wind or solar match up on price, they usually use price per megawatt if u need help finding the info

I think a clever country would be one not poisioning its people .

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 3:57pm:

ohhh my a nerve has been hit, I live near a big coal power station and  they have regular shut downs and rebuild the furnaces and its great bring lots of workers into the town ,takes about 6 weeks every 18 months, is this the kind of maintenance u mean ? Rebuild bearings in a solar plant, maybe a few panels could break down but unlikely and even home ones r under a 30 year guarantee, no moving parts ,no corrosive ash ruining pipes or high pressure weakening parts. Yeah wind generators would need bearings but no combustion damage or pressure damage, Thousands of miles of new cables ? where do u think they will install them. If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. All the other costs u r mentioning is with any new power source , lots of existing power plants are just getting to old and need rebuilding how would renewable need more money ? We make coal so should use it...... we make lots of sunshine and wind too....... hmmm I can see how saying all that stuff fast came make it seam real but come back with how much a new coal or wind or solar match up on price, they usually use price per megawatt if u need help finding the info I think a clever country would be one not poisioning its people .

Trust to commonsense that if Coal Power was NOT the cheapest and the most effective power source, the Chinese wouldn't be building them hand-over-fist as they are doing, as is India and in South America.

I lived in mainlaind China and Hong Kong for several years, and they have a whole continent of mountainous country to erect 10s of 1000s of windmills, but they're not doing that, for the simple reason it's not economically viable.

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:32pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: ohhh my a nerve has been hit, I live near a big coal power station and  they have regular shut downs and rebuild the furnaces and its great bring lots of workers into the town ,takes about 6 weeks every 18 months, is this the kind of maintenance u mean ? Rebuild bearings in a solar plant, maybe a few panels could break down but unlikely and even home ones r under a 30 year guarantee, no moving parts ,no corrosive ash ruining pipes or high pressure weakening parts. Yeah wind generators would need bearings but no combustion damage or pressure damage, Thousands of miles of new cables ? where do u think they will install them. If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. All the other costs u r mentioning is with any new power source , lots of existing power plants are just getting to old and need rebuilding how would renewable need more money ? We make coal so should use it...... we make lots of sunshine and wind too....... hmmm I can see how saying all that stuff fast came make it seam real but come back with how much a new coal or wind or solar match up on price, they usually use price per megawatt if u need help finding the info I think a clever country would be one not poisioning its people . Trust to commonsense that if Coal Power was NOT the cheapest and the most effective power source, the Chinese wouldn't be building them hand-over-fist as they are doing, as is India and in South America. I lived in mainlaind China and Hong Kong for several years, and they have a whole continent of mountainous country to erect 10s of 1000s of windmills, but they're not doing that, for the simple reason it's not economically viable.

And their cities are choked with coal smoke.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 3:57pm:

If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make.

How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is?

Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:35pm:

And their cities are choked with coal smoke.

And as Maxwell Smart always used to say ... "And I'm lovin' it!"

There's nothing wrong with fitting ash suppressors on those chimneys and double-burning the gases so that only water vapour is seen to rise from those power stations.

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:36pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is? Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres.

The sad truth about wind-power, solar-power, wave-power, and ebb-and-flow power is that they only produce a pathetically small percentage of the power needed to service First World civilisations.

And I'm with Bob Hawke when he says we should be using our own uranium to provide us with clean and cheap power source for all our industrial, civic, and domestic power needs.

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 4:36pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is? Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres. The sad truth about wind-power, solar-power, wave-power, and ebb-and-flow power is that they only produce a pathetically small percentage of the power needed to service First World civilisations. And I'm with Bob Hawke when he says we should be using our own uranium to provide us with clean and cheap power source for all our industrial, civic, and domestic power needs.

No - not Uranium.

Thorium will outclass Uranium and make it obsolete before any power station is built.

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:36pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is? Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres.

Our local power plant is on 60000 acres I just did a fence around a 20 mw solar plant at the Sunshine Coast and it used about 50 acres so that would be um a 20 Gw plant where our existing coal plant is ,about all the power used by Australia at the moment
So next argument as I answer this one

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:32pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: ohhh my a nerve has been hit, I live near a big coal power station and  they have regular shut downs and rebuild the furnaces and its great bring lots of workers into the town ,takes about 6 weeks every 18 months, is this the kind of maintenance u mean ? Rebuild bearings in a solar plant, maybe a few panels could break down but unlikely and even home ones r under a 30 year guarantee, no moving parts ,no corrosive ash ruining pipes or high pressure weakening parts. Yeah wind generators would need bearings but no combustion damage or pressure damage, Thousands of miles of new cables ? where do u think they will install them. If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. All the other costs u r mentioning is with any new power source , lots of existing power plants are just getting to old and need rebuilding how would renewable need more money ? We make coal so should use it...... we make lots of sunshine and wind too....... hmmm I can see how saying all that stuff fast came make it seam real but come back with how much a new coal or wind or solar match up on price, they usually use price per megawatt if u need help finding the info I think a clever country would be one not poisioning its people . Trust to commonsense that if Coal Power was NOT the cheapest and the most effective power source, the Chinese wouldn't be building them hand-over-fist as they are doing, as is India and in South America. I lived in mainlaind China and Hong Kong for several years, and they have a whole continent of mountainous country to erect 10s of 1000s of windmills, but they're not doing that, for the simple reason it's not economically viable.

It’s great u agree with everything else I’ve said and yesChina r making lots of coal plants except in China of coarse where they cancelled 150 last year.
Last year was the first year where new renewable was higher than fossil fuel, but I know u will ask new questions next post so I won’t go into it

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:

Our local power plant is on 60000 acres I just did a fence around a 20 mw solar plant at the Sunshine Coast and it used about 50 acres so that would be um a 20 Gw plant where our existing coal plant is ,about all the power used by Australia at the moment So next argument as I answer this one

Now take into account the site area of 1670 acres for the 110Mw.

Perhaps you can provide details of your local power plant.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 6:02pm:

yesChina r making lots of coal plants except in China of coarse where they cancelled 150 last year.

WTF? They're making coal plants except they're not?

"When China halted plans for more than 100 new coal-fired power plants this year, even as US President Donald Trump vowed to "bring back coal" in America, the contrast seemed to confirm Beijing's new role as a leader in the fight against climate change.

However, new data on the world's biggest developers of coal-fired power plants paints a very different picture: China's energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade.

These Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world, some in countries that today burn little or no coal, according to tallies compiled by Urgewald, a Berlin-based environmental group. Many of the plants are in China, but by capacity, about a fifth of these new coal power stations are in other countries.

Overall, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, said Urgewald, which uses data from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. The new plants would expand the world's coal-fired power capacity by 43 per cent."

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/chinese-firms-to-build-700-coal-plants

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 6:02pm:

It’s great u agree with everything else I’ve said and yesChina r making lots of coal plants except in China of coarse where they cancelled 150 last year. Last year was the first year where new renewable was higher than fossil fuel, but I know u will ask new questions next post so I won’t go into it

Thanks for the update.

I'll check that out.

Thanks Lee.

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 4:36pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is? Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres. The sad truth about wind-power, solar-power, wave-power, and ebb-and-flow power is that they only produce a pathetically small percentage of the power needed to service First World civilisations. And I'm with Bob Hawke when he says we should be using our own uranium to provide us with clean and cheap power source for all our industrial, civic, and domestic power needs.

Im not sure where u get your info but 2016 there was 160 gw on new renewable power and around 80 in fossil that is more than needed for Africa, Australia is about 20 gw . Every dollar spent on renewable was matched by 4 dollars spent on maintaining existing FF plants.
Time to ignore and find a new topic

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 6:02pm: It’s great u agree with everything else I’ve said and yesChina r making lots of coal plants except in China of coarse where they cancelled 150 last year. Last year was the first year where new renewable was higher than fossil fuel, but I know u will ask new questions next post so I won’t go into it Thanks for the update. I'll check that out.

As prices lower there r more and more coal plants being cancelled, it’s just economics, u go with what’s cheeper

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 6:36pm:

As prices lower there r more and more coal plants being cancelled, it’s just economics, u go with what’s cheeper

Yeah. Bugger reliability of supply.  Solar don't output power at night, except for solar salt and they seem to be having troubles with that.

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 6:46pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 6:36pm: As prices lower there r more and more coal plants being cancelled, it’s just economics, u go with what’s cheeper Yeah. Bugger reliability of supply.  Solar don't output power at night, except for solar salt and they seem to be having troubles with that.

Ohhh just use solar for day use, it’s then a engineering problem of storage for night time use, solar isn’t the only kid on the block wind gets harder at night and is a problem of over supply maybe electro water to make hydrogen or methan and last 10 years lithium battery halved price and doubled density.
Tidal in Scotland is projected by the government to fully power the country and have successful prototypes working enough to power 2000 houses and of course wind and hydro and thermal and in 20 years possibility of 4 th gen nuclear that use up the waste fuel already used.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 7:59pm:

wind gets harder at night and is a problem of over supply

You do know that wind has a problem when it blows too hard and when it blows not enough?


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 7:59pm:

maybe electro water to make hydrogen or methan

Not cost effective.

Tidal power MAY have a future. However the salty environment is a problem.

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:22pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:59pm: wind gets harder at night and is a problem of over supply You do know that wind has a problem when it blows too hard and when it blows not enough? DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:59pm: maybe electro water to make hydrogen or methan Not cost effective. Tidal power MAY have a future. However the salty environment is a problem.

Haha good thing there has been no advances in the world. 
Salty environment doesn’t seam to stop boats or oil rigs
What would u recommend ?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:59pm:

Salty environment doesn’t seam to stop boats or oil rigs

Do you know how much is spent on maintenance? It is not an inconsiderable sum.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 3:36pm:

lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 2:43pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:25pm: I think the thing its all about is getting rid of poisons in the air. You have heard of the filters attached to modern coal fired power stations? Ok im trying to find out about them in Aussie power stations ive tried googling even your words with australia i cant find it I did however find this artical and im within 50km of one..... news ,com,au/news/report-finds-us-china-and-the-eu-have-higher-standards-for-air-pollution-caused-by-power-stations-than-australia/news-story if its true the filters r not well here i Australia

1. Fabric filters

2. Electrostatic precipitators

3. Scrubbing

All can be used to minimise pollution

The only reason they want everyone off the fossil fuels is so the military can have fossil fuel power for thousands of years to come.

And the fact that they want to tax every man woman and child for the air they consume / breathe..... :-*

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 5:07pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 4:52pm: lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 4:36pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is? Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres. The sad truth about wind-power, solar-power, wave-power, and ebb-and-flow power is that they only produce a pathetically small percentage of the power needed to service First World civilisations. And I'm with Bob Hawke when he says we should be using our own uranium to provide us with clean and cheap power source for all our industrial, civic, and domestic power needs. No - not Uranium. Thorium will outclass Uranium and make it obsolete before any power station is built.

Thorium again  ;D

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:10pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:59pm: Salty environment doesn’t seam to stop boats or oil rigs Do you know how much is spent on maintenance? It is not an inconsiderable sum.

Maintenance of a market place requires government intervention!

Simple!

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:59pm:

lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:22pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:59pm: wind gets harder at night and is a problem of over supply You do know that wind has a problem when it blows too hard and when it blows not enough? DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:59pm: maybe electro water to make hydrogen or methan Not cost effective. Tidal power MAY have a future. However the salty environment is a problem. Haha good thing there has been no advances in the world.  Salty environment doesn’t seam to stop boats or oil rigs What would u recommend ?

Lee forgets the market place is government intervened: he pretends it's all a free markets but, of course, lee represents those who know where the bread is buttered!

:D

----> go the dregs of society called lee(s)  :D

Lee forgets the market place is government intervened: he pretends it's all a free markets but, of course, lee represents those who know where the bread is buttered!

:D

----> go the dregs of society called lee(s)  :D[/color

[color=#ff0000]Lee forgets the market place is government intervened: he pretends it's all a free markets but, of course, lee represents those who know where the bread is buttered!

:D

----> go the dregs of society called lee(s)  :D

Lee forgets the market place is government intervened: he pretends it's all a free markets but, of course, lee represents those who know where the bread is buttered!

:D

----> go the dregs of society called lee(s)  :D[/color



[color=#ff0000]Lee forgets the market place is government intervened: he pretends it's all a free markets but, of course, lee represents those who know where the bread is buttered!

:D

----> go the dregs of society called lee(s)  :D

[color=#ff0000]Lee forgets the market place is government intervened: he pretends it's all a free markets but, of course, lee represents those who know where the bread is buttered!

:D

----> go the dregs of society called lee(s)  :D[/color

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 6:30pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 4:52pm: lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 4:36pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm: If a solar plant was installed next to existing power line or existing power plant I'm not sure where the huge prices would come from, I think they should make solar parks on the huge ash dams coal power plants make. How big do you think 110 MW solar plant is? Desert Dunes solar salt - 296 acres for the array itself. The site area is 1670 acres. The sad truth about wind-power, solar-power, wave-power, and ebb-and-flow power is that they only produce a pathetically small percentage of the power needed to service First World civilisations. And I'm with Bob Hawke when he says we should be using our own uranium to provide us with clean and cheap power source for all our industrial, civic, and domestic power needs. Im not sure where u get your info but 2016 there was 160 gw on new renewable power and around 80 in fossil that is more than needed for Africa, Australia is about 20 gw . Every dollar spent on renewable was matched by 4 dollars spent on maintaining existing FF plants. Time to ignore and find a new topic

Bob Hawke knows that America doesn't want Australia to get into Nuclear Power!

No one has actually said if the think the global warming argument distracts from all the other environmental damages fossil fuels do, id be interested.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:42am:

Yes ive read, global warming is bad, will happen , also is good or just isn't going to happen. I put it in the same category as if god is real and evolution, I just don't know enough myself and depends on what site I goto either argument sounds fine. What I've noticed as long as there is the climate change debate happening no one seams to talk about the poisons emited eg  nitrogen oxide and even smog. Its very easy to say there is no global warming and forget about what the skys r like around the huge cities of the world . I guess what I'm saying is that if I made money out of a product that poisoned ppl, id be looking for a distraction that everyone could fight over. Heaven forbid if everyone was on the same page about getting pollutants out of the air

That's throwing the cat amongst the pigeons!

:D

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 18^th, 2018 at 5:15pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:42am: Yes ive read, global warming is bad, will happen , also is good or just isn't going to happen. I put it in the same category as if god is real and evolution, I just don't know enough myself and depends on what site I goto either argument sounds fine. What I've noticed as long as there is the climate change debate happening no one seams to talk about the poisons emited eg  nitrogen oxide and even smog. Its very easy to say there is no global warming and forget about what the skys r like around the huge cities of the world . I guess what I'm saying is that if I made money out of a product that poisoned ppl, id be looking for a distraction that everyone could fight over. Heaven forbid if everyone was on the same page about getting pollutants out of the air That's throwing the cat amongst the pigeons! :D

And yet they sit down a watch them

who realized that 3 millions death a year because of poisons in the air .
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/27/more-than-million-died-due-air-pollution-china-one-year

if we r in a ice age or a hothouse these ppl r still dying every year.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 6:35am:

who realized that 3 millions death a year because of poisons in the air . https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/27/more-than-million-died-due-air-pollution-china-one-year if we r in a ice age or a hothouse these ppl r still dying every year.

Ain't stats wonderful.  Nothing to do with the real world.

PM2.5? Guess what folks terpenes, those lovely things that give the Blue Mountains their name? They are about  PM 2.5. Damn another neighbourhood cleanup. Do what the EPA in the States wanted to do ban anything PM2.5 or less across state boundaries. Yeah, that should work.

lee wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 4:45pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 6:35am: who realized that 3 millions death a year because of poisons in the air . https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/27/more-than-million-died-due-air-pollution-china-one-year if we r in a ice age or a hothouse these ppl r still dying every year. Ain't stats wonderful.  Nothing to do with the real world. PM2.5? Guess what folks terpenes, those lovely things that give the Blue Mountains their name? They are about  PM 2.5. Damn another neighbourhood cleanup. Do what the EPA in the States wanted to do ban anything PM2.5 or less across state boundaries. Yeah, that should work.

wow Lee, china is spending all that money and resources cleaning up their cities and all they had to do was talk to u and they would of realized the air in Beijing is fine .
Maybe sent a letter to WHO as well and tell them to stop that damn lying.
I think u should set yourself up for all those lawyers around the world that are defending pollution, we can throw all those cases out.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 8:09am:

wow Lee, china is spending all that money and resources cleaning up their cities and all they had to do was talk to u and they would of realized the air in Beijing is fine .

You really are a dill; aren't you? Continually distort what was said. I am guessing you are school age from your level of "sophisticated" argument.


DonDeeHippy wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 8:09am:

Maybe sent a letter to WHO as well and tell them to stop that damn lying.

You also don't understand statistics. Do you really think they do post mortems and say "this one died of pollution"?

All those millions that have died of pollution and yet the average age, in China, is on a par with or even better than the States.

You do know how they work out average age of death? Put all deaths and ages into a database and then average. Seems reasonable.

Now how do they work out the deaths due to pollution?

"For the first time, this study has produced a model that links the UK energy system model used by the government and the Climate Change Committee with a sophisticated chemical-transport model for air quality. We then used the resulting concentrations to estimate health impacts and the differential exposures in socioeconomic classes"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(18)30067-6/fulltext


"In one of the most extensive reports of its kind, environmental health experts have estimated that nine million premature deaths worldwide—16% of all deaths—were linked to pollution in 2015, with the majority of deaths coming from air pollution.

The new study, published in the journal The Lancet "

http://time.com/4989641/water-air-pollution-deaths/

"Particularly worrying, the agency added, was that more than 40 per cent of the global population still does not have access to clean cooking fuels and technologies in their homes.

The use of dirty cooking fuel, like burning charcoal, is a major source of household air pollution, which is estimated to cause some 3.8 million premature deaths each year."

https://gulfnews.com/leisure/health/nine-out-of-10-people-breathing-polluted-air-who-1.2215172

Now which countries are most affected? Those without "clean cooking fuels and technologies". Like gas or electric stoves.

Burning unventilated coal and biomass.

And you want to save people from themselves by using intermittent power. That may or may not be there when people want to cook, warm their accommodation.

You want to put them on already scarce land that currently feeds them.

https://gulfnews.com/leisure/health/nine-out-of-10-people-breathing-polluted-air-who-1.2215172

Now which countries are most affected? Those without "clean cooking fuels and technologies". Like gas or electric stoves.

Burning unventilated coal and biomass.

And you want to save people from themselves by using intermittent power. That may or may not be there when people want to cook, warm their accommodation.

You want to put them on already scarce land that currently feeds them.

Three great articles Lee, forget global warming, pollution is the main killer ATM.

I'm not really sure what the highlighted lines mean, are u asking a question or saying I want intermittent power for the ppl ?
I don't recall this thread ever mentioning any of that.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 5^th, 2018 at 7:38am:

I'm not really sure what the highlighted lines mean, are u asking a question or saying I want intermittent power for the ppl ? I don't recall this thread ever mentioning any of that.

You are the one keeps banging on about renewables. ;)

lee wrote on May 6^th, 2018 at 4:54pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 7:38am: I'm not really sure what the highlighted lines mean, are u asking a question or saying I want intermittent power for the ppl ? I don't recall this thread ever mentioning any of that. You are the one keeps banging on about renewables. ;)

I'm more concerned about fossil fuels being burnt and poisoning our homes.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:38am:

lee wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 4:54pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 7:38am: I'm not really sure what the highlighted lines mean, are u asking a question or saying I want intermittent power for the ppl ? I don't recall this thread ever mentioning any of that. You are the one keeps banging on about renewables. ;) I'm more concerned about fossil fuels being burnt and poisoning our homes.

Deforestion of the amazon is of particular concern to me,,

Deforestation.

Amazon.

Jovial Monk wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:40pm:

Deforestation. Amazon.

Very good Monk ,we shall teach you a couple of new words tomorrow  :o

BigP wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:46pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 6:40pm: Deforestation. Amazon. Very good Monk ,we shall teach you a couple of new words tomorrow  :o

Yup start with bamboo and hemp and leave the trees alone.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180413093529.htm

Even the briefest increase in airborne fine particulate matter PM2.5, pollution-causing particles that are about 3 percent of the diameter of human hair, is associated with the development of acute lower respiratory infection (ALRI) in young children, according to newly published research.
Increases in PM2.5 levels also led to increased doctor visits for these lung infections.
The groundbreaking study, "Short-Term Elevation of Fine Particulate Matter Air Pollution and Acute Lower Respiratory Infection," is the largest to date on this health concern, involving more than 100,000 patients

Long as fossil fuels are around this will happen. :-/

"Odds ratios (OR) for ALRI healthcare encounters were calculated after stratification by ages 0-2, 3-17, and 18+ years. "

Another statistical study.

lee wrote on May 17^th, 2018 at 1:19pm:

"Odds ratios (OR) for ALRI healthcare encounters were calculated after stratification by ages 0-2, 3-17, and 18+ years. " Another statistical study.

Wow lee  :D :D

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 17^th, 2018 at 8:49pm:

Wow lee

Yeah. Perhaps one day you might read the actual papers. ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:38am:

lee wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 4:54pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 7:38am: I'm not really sure what the highlighted lines mean, are u asking a question or saying I want intermittent power for the ppl ? I don't recall this thread ever mentioning any of that. You are the one keeps banging on about renewables. ;) I'm more concerned about fossil fuels being burnt and poisoning our homes.

Calm down take a bex and stop spreading alarmist claptrap then.

Grendel wrote on May 23^rd, 2018 at 9:07am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 6:38am: lee wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 4:54pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 7:38am: I'm not really sure what the highlighted lines mean, are u asking a question or saying I want intermittent power for the ppl ? I don't recall this thread ever mentioning any of that. You are the one keeps banging on about renewables. ;) I'm more concerned about fossil fuels being burnt and poisoning our homes. Calm down take a bex and stop spreading alarmist claptrap then.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWzIyFzZrbAhVTNpQKHZVFA0EQFgg8MAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2017%2Foct%2F19%2Fglobal-pollution-kills-millions-threatens-survival-human-societies&usg=AOvVaw1sqHL_4NRJasUAKSOzJ7km

Yeah go suck on your exhaust pipe  :P :P ;)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/05/work-home-cut-car-pollution-deaths-oxford-study-suggests/

The study examined the health costs of air pollution, concluding that emissions from cars and vans are costing almost £6 billion year in damage - most of it due to diesel vehicles.
The research concludes that more than 10,000 premature deaths a year are being caused by pollutants from cars, such as nitrogen dioxide.
Nearly 90 per cent of all the health costs associated with pollution from cars and vans is down to diesel vehicles.
The authors of the report called for radical changes in lifestyles, even if that meant being confined to the home.
They said the “inconvenient truth” was that individuals needed to do more to reduce reliance on cars, and should stay at home more if they could not find a “cleaner travel mode”.
“Options you can do today include tele-shopping, tele-working, tele-conferencing or tele-socialising,” the study recommends.
Overall, around 40,000 premature deaths a year have been linked to all forms of air pollution.

Chris Large from charity Global Action Plan said: “Swapping one in four car journeys in urban areas for walking or cycling could save over £1.1 billion in health damage costs per year. Switching 1 million cars from diesel to electric would save more than £360 million per year in health costs from local air pollution.”

Wow that's 2 billion AUD and just walking and cycling, basically getting out of the car and exercising.
Ohh wait its just speculation....... all those ppl getting sick and dying but its all speculation.... dam those scientists working out fossil fuel emissions have a link to ppl dying.....how dare they  ;) ;) ;)
hhmm I wonder why there r no reports on How good Fossil fuels are for the human body. how they extend life or the smog clouds in big cities help ppl..... ;) ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 23^rd, 2018 at 10:43am:

Yeah go suck on your exhaust pipe

Carbon monoxide?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 20^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Ohh wait its just speculation....... all those ppl getting sick and dying but its all speculation.... dam those scientists working out fossil fuel emissions have a link to ppl dying.....how dare they

Was this another one of those statistical surveys? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 20^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

hhmm I wonder why there r no reports on How good Fossil fuels are for the human body. how they extend life or the smog clouds in big cities help ppl..

You mean those fossil fuels that deliver your food to the shops? They don't extend life? Oh dear. ;)

I wonder when you are going to start walking; to save us all? ;)

lee wrote on Jun 20^th, 2018 at 11:06am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:07am: Ohh wait its just speculation....... all those ppl getting sick and dying but its all speculation.... dam those scientists working out fossil fuel emissions have a link to ppl dying.....how dare they Was this another one of those statistical surveys? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:07am: hhmm I wonder why there r no reports on How good Fossil fuels are for the human body. how they extend life or the smog clouds in big cities help ppl.. You mean those fossil fuels that deliver your food to the shops? They don't extend life? Oh dear. ;) (doesn't mean we should keep using them when cleaner alternatives r popping up) I wonder when you are going to start walking; to save us all? ;)

awesome Idea Lee, we all should walk and cycle more to goto our destinations..... Good Tip  ;) ;)

lee wrote on Jun 20^th, 2018 at 11:06am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:07am: Ohh wait its just speculation....... all those ppl getting sick and dying but its all speculation.... dam those scientists working out fossil fuel emissions have a link to ppl dying.....how dare they Was this another one of those statistical surveys? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:07am: hhmm I wonder why there r no reports on How good Fossil fuels are for the human body. how they extend life or the smog clouds in big cities help ppl.. You mean those fossil fuels that deliver your food to the shops? They don't extend life? Oh dear. ;) I wonder when you are going to start walking; to save us all? ;)

I ride.

Club of Rome

Club of Rome again  ::)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/news/ct-ptb-coal-ash-indiana-st-0721-story.html
Indiana environmentalists are criticizing the easing of toxic coal ash regulations by President Donald Trump's administration.
Environmental leaders say the new rule changes for coal-fired power plants put Indiana residents particularly at risk because the state has the most coal ash ponds in the country, the Indianapolis Star reported.
"There is nothing in this rule ... that is beneficial to the public health or environment," said Lisa Evans, an attorney for nonprofit environmental law organization Earthjustice.
The ash left from burning coal is filled with contaminants such as arsenic, chromium and boron that leach into nearby groundwater and waterways.
As many as 15 power plants in Indiana have groundwater with dangerous levels of pollution, according to the newspaper's analysis. Frank said the toxins in the water around the ash ponds render the aquifers "unfit for human consumption" and raise the risk for cancer, heart disease and brain damage in children.

Just another by-product that's destroying where we live.
global warming or not..  this is still happening.
;) ;) ;)