https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp

Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ?

We will see how successful the anti-Turnbull forum is after the 30th poll.

Its time wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 10:34pm:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ?

And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power.

Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:47am:

Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Nah - it all goes into the grid, which is sourced from a number of different forms of supply - the price is something of an average of the input of all those forms, so when the wind doesn't blow, the price doesn't go up.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:47am:

Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D

You have no idea how the electricity market works.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:23am:

Nah - it all goes into the grid, which is sourced from a number of different forms of supply - the price is something of an average of the input of all those forms, so when the wind doesn't blow, the price doesn't go up.

That must explain why the spot prices stay static. /sarc

From the reference -

"The $643 million Liverpool Range wind farm, between the Cassilis and Coolah, 350km northwest of Sydney, will have 272 turbines generating nearly 1000MW (megawatts) of power, enough to supply nearly 500,000 homes."

"The project is 20km across and 36km from north to south, on 25 different properties near the Coolah Tops National Park."

So 720 Square kilometres. 1000Mw. About 1.4MW/square Kilometre.

That's yuge. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Geez australia has heaps of desert to do solar panels . . .. .

Spot

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 5:23am: Nah - it all goes into the grid, which is sourced from a number of different forms of supply - the price is something of an average of the input of all those forms, so when the wind doesn't blow, the price doesn't go up. That must explain why the spot prices stay static. /sarc

That's the insider market - not the general market... all such peaks and troughs are calculated into the end price... the PROBLEM is too many suppliers at the end-face demanding massive remuneration, and duplication of service and service infrastructure which did not occur under a single roof government organisation.

Imagine (just as with social security) there are several streams supplying down-river - at certain points down-river there are bought and paid for entitlements to use water (pensions, unemployment etc) -someone decides to build a reservoir to catch the water from all those streams and labels it 'Consolidated Revenue Reservoir'.  The idea is to create one big pool that can cater to all needs.

Under NO circumstances does this alter the entitlement of those who bought and paid downstream to their continued use of water - i.e. Pensions and Unemployment benefits, defence etc, are still sacred...

Now - when it comes to power supply- the comparison changes ....... just downstream of Consolidated Revenue Reservoir a 'government' installs a series of sluice gates, through which the water must pass and offers each gate up for sale ... and gives to each individual operator of a sluice gate the right to charge for that water passing through......

Now THAT, my son - is why the cost of power etc is going through the roof... and not down the stream evenly and equitably...

The reasons for social security suffering include the inclusion of PPL payments and childcare subsidies - which are NOT social security but are bonus payments and are separate streams entirely - yet their inclusion in the Social Security Budget gives the APPEARANCE that the Social Security Budget is unsustainable....

A little honesty on the part of governments would go a long way.... if they were honest they would establish these bonus payments under a different or separate roof - so as to avoid ideological entanglement and opportunity for false propaganda about Social Security, and use that to play the politics of division by creating an inter-generational war.

Apply the same to power... as required....

Take this as a warning NOT to consider privatisation of Social Security....

The old Polly Waffle the Poll Troll puts his foot in it.

The Lefties are sucked in by a clever political trick to win Greeny biased votes in Victoria.

Wind is available only 30% of the time and solar is available only 25% of the time.

It is Secondary Power at best as it is unreliable and unstable but coupled with Mal's brilliant Snowy Energy Storage Scheme it can actually work.

Bam wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:47am: Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D You have no idea how the electricity market works.

The market can't cover up the fact the this is nothing more than intermittent power that will need dedicated back up power that needs to runs constantly in background such as coal or gas, or can quickly be brought on line such as diesel generators (and lots of them).

We have no where near enough 'spare' power floating around the grid that you can just throw in that amount of intermittent power and hope the market will sort it out.


Try to understand electricity before you try and fluff over the problem with a smoke and mirror market dynamic.

The market already does - it's called the end price to the consumer...

juliar wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 1:24pm:

The old Polly Waffle the Poll Troll puts his foot in it. The Lefties are sucked in by a clever political trick to win Greeny biased votes in Victoria. Wind is available only 30% of the time and solar is available only 25% of the time. It is Secondary Power at best as it is unreliable and unstable but coupled with Mal's brilliant Snowy Energy Storage Scheme it can actually work.

It's in NSW , der  :D

Its time wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 1:37pm:

juliar wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 1:24pm: The old Polly Waffle the Poll Troll puts his foot in it. The Lefties are sucked in by a clever political trick to win Greeny biased votes in Victoria. Wind is available only 30% of the time and solar is available only 25% of the time. It is Secondary Power at best as it is unreliable and unstable but coupled with Mal's brilliant Snowy Energy Storage Scheme it can actually work. It's in NSW , der  :D

Yes, but it supplies baseload to Vic as well.

The closure of Hazelwood has put added pressure on what's available. Hazelwood was providing low cost electricity.

Now that has gone the power must come from elsewhere.

"The question of what replaces Hazelwood brings us to prices. Many, including AEMO, expect to see increased generation from currently underused power plants. These include New South Wales’ black coal power plants. Last year NSW’s black coal was used at 56% of its total capacity. Bumping up these stations’ output would also reduce NSW’s reliance on Victorian exports.

Reducing the capacity of brown coal will mean logically that Victoria relies on more expensive forms of generation such as black coal or gas. This is particularly so if the availability of cheap imports is limited, and more expensive local generation such as gas is needed.

Black coal power stations generate electricity comparatively cheaply. Even so electricity prices are already so high that an increase in black coal generation may not have a dramatic impact on prices. With NSW prices averaging A$137 per megawatt hour this year, it is clear that the cost of coal is not determining electricity prices."

https://theconversation.com/hazelwood-closure-what-it-means-for-electricity-prices-and-blackouts-75135

That of course is before the planned closure of Liddell, which is slated to be replaced by more intermittents.

Lets at least be honest though lee, this isn't a debate about cheap or expensive electricity is it.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:23am:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:47am: Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D Nah - it all goes into the grid, which is sourced from a number of different forms of supply - the price is something of an average of the input of all those forms, so when the wind doesn't blow, the price doesn't go up.

You best be careful: i think big ol has a gun!

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:19pm:

Geez australia has heaps of desert to do solar panels . . .. . Spot

How much space would you need to power the world?

:o

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Lets at least be honest though lee, this isn't a debate about cheap or expensive electricity is it.

maybe that's where it should be.

Bam wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:47am: Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D You have no idea how the electricity market works.

Be Careful: I think big ol' has a gun!

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:05pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 2:01pm: Lets at least be honest though lee, this isn't a debate about cheap or expensive electricity is it. maybe that's where it should be.

I agree, but cost or expense isn't just financial

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:06pm:

From the reference - "The $643 million Liverpool Range wind farm, between the Cassilis and Coolah, 350km northwest of Sydney, will have 272 turbines generating nearly 1000MW (megawatts) of power, enough to supply nearly 500,000 homes." "The project is 20km across and 36km from north to south, on 25 different properties near the Coolah Tops National Park." So 720 Square kilometres. 1000Mw. About 1.4MW/square Kilometre. That's yuge. ;D ;D ;D ;D

How much area is required to power the world?

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 1:30pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 10:35am: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:47am: Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D You have no idea how the electricity market works. The market can't cover up the fact the this is nothing more than intermittent power that will need dedicated back up power that needs to runs constantly in background such as coal or gas, or can quickly be brought on line such as diesel generators (and lots of them). We have no where near enough 'spare' power floating around the grid that you can just throw in that amount of intermittent power and hope the market will sort it out. Try to understand electricity before you try and fluff over the problem with a smoke and mirror market dynamic.

Probabilities and predictions are dealt with all the time!

You can only try to sow doubt but we know the markets have already locked in a new paradigm!

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:06pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 10:35am: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:47am: Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D You have no idea how the electricity market works. Be Careful: I think big ol' has a gun!

That is your problem isn't it? You don't think, like an amoeba you just react.  :) :)

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:07pm:

lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:05pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 2:01pm: Lets at least be honest though lee, this isn't a debate about cheap or expensive electricity is it. maybe that's where it should be. I agree, but cost or expense isn't just financial

That's true. You need reliability.

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:07pm: lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:05pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 2:01pm: Lets at least be honest though lee, this isn't a debate about cheap or expensive electricity is it. maybe that's where it should be. I agree, but cost or expense isn't just financial That's true. You need reliability.

And that is the rub, isn't it?


Unreliable intermittent power is next to worthless.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:06pm: Bam wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 10:35am: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:47am: Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D You have no idea how the electricity market works. Be Careful: I think big ol' has a gun! That is your problem isn't it? You don't think, like an amoeba you just react.  :) :)

You're a wack job buddy  ;)

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:24pm:

lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:07pm: lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:05pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 2:01pm: Lets at least be honest though lee, this isn't a debate about cheap or expensive electricity is it. maybe that's where it should be. I agree, but cost or expense isn't just financial That's true. You need reliability. And that is the rub, isn't it? Unreliable intermittent power is next to worthless.

The future is co-generation!

:D

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 3:32pm:

The future is co-generation!

yea. Have enough baseload power so you don't have to worry about intermittency.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:19pm:

Geez australia has heaps of desert to do solar panels . . .. . Spot

This is somewhat impractical due to the large distance between generation and consumption. Firstly, about 10% of the power that would be generated is lost due to transmission losses. The power lines need to be built and maintained and that adds to the cost.

It's cheaper to have the generation closer to the consumption. Rooftop solar will always be cheaper per unit of energy as long as roof space is available.

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 4:38pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:32pm: The future is co-generation! yea. Have enough baseload power so you don't have to worry about intermittency.

"Baseload" power is wasted at night when people aren't using it.

Bam wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:27pm:

"Baseload" power is wasted at night when people aren't using it.

So we should run renewables at night for our hospitals. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bam wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:25pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:19pm: Geez australia has heaps of desert to do solar panels . . .. . Spot This is somewhat impractical due to the large distance between generation and consumption. Firstly, about 10% of the power that would be generated is lost due to transmission losses. The power lines need to be built and maintained and that adds to the cost. It's cheaper to have the generation closer to the consumption. Rooftop solar will always be cheaper per unit of energy as long as roof space is available.

It's all about the ambitiousness of the end goal!

The deniers have their role to play in a mixed market economy run by democratic vote: propaganda rules!

Bam wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:27pm:

lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 4:38pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:32pm: The future is co-generation! yea. Have enough baseload power so you don't have to worry about intermittency. "Baseload" power is wasted at night when people aren't using it.

Well that is the most stupid statement on this subject so far, well done, 130.  ;D ;D ;D

Bam wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:25pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:19pm: Geez australia has heaps of desert to do solar panels . . .. . Spot This is somewhat impractical due to the large distance between generation and consumption. Firstly, about 10% of the power that would be generated is lost due to transmission losses. The power lines need to be built and maintained and that adds to the cost. It's cheaper to have the generation closer to the consumption. Rooftop solar will always be cheaper per unit of energy as long as roof space is available.

Well the base load power for all of North QLD is generated in Gladstone well over 1200 kms away and is boosted at Rocky about 800 kms away.

Over that distance we lose about 40% of the power due to line resistance and subsequently the QLD subsidises that lost power to the tune of $500 - $600 billion per year.

A new HELE power station costs about $2.2 billion, paid off in full within 4 - 5 years. But thanks to our labor party geniuses they won't be funding base load power for the north regardless of the pollution and costs.


Solar is NOT the answer and wind is NOT the answer to our power needs, intermittent power is useless power, nothing more than an expensive socialist circle jerk.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:44pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 5:27pm: lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 4:38pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:32pm: The future is co-generation! yea. Have enough baseload power so you don't have to worry about intermittency. "Baseload" power is wasted at night when people aren't using it. Well that is the most stupid statement on this subject so far, well done, 130.  ;D ;D ;D

I'm not Bam  :o :o

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 5:49pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 5:25pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 12:19pm: Geez australia has heaps of desert to do solar panels . . .. . Spot This is somewhat impractical due to the large distance between generation and consumption. Firstly, about 10% of the power that would be generated is lost due to transmission losses. The power lines need to be built and maintained and that adds to the cost. It's cheaper to have the generation closer to the consumption. Rooftop solar will always be cheaper per unit of energy as long as roof space is available. Well the base load power for all of North QLD is generated in Gladstone well over 1200 kms away and is boosted at Rocky about 800 kms away. Over that distance we lose about 40% of the power due to line resistance and subsequently the QLD subsidises that lost power to the tune of $500 - $600 billion per year. A new HELE power station costs about $2.2 billion, paid off in full within 4 - 5 years. But thanks to our labor party geniuses they won't be funding base load power for the north regardless of the pollution and costs. Solar is NOT the answer and wind is NOT the answer to our power needs, intermittent power is useless power, nothing more than an expensive socialist circle jerk.

Sounds like a problem!

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 6:24pm:

I'm not Bam

No he didn't say IQ 30.

Libtards turn back on coal and build windfarms

We the people demand higher electricity bills. We demand to pay more for petrol and while they're at it how 'bout making the weekly grocery shop as painful as possible. C'mon pollies, you can do it.

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 6:24pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 5:44pm: Bam wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 5:27pm: lee wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 4:38pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 3:32pm: The future is co-generation! yea. Have enough baseload power so you don't have to worry about intermittency. "Baseload" power is wasted at night when people aren't using it. Well that is the most stupid statement on this subject so far, well done, 130.  ;D ;D ;D I'm not Bam  :o :o

My bad, sorry 130.

What good is a power source if it doesn't work when you need it ?

Industry needs reliable stable power 24/7 and Secondary Power from solar and wind just cannot supply this. So what is the good of it ?

If there was NO govt subsidy there would be NO renewable rubbish.

Already the Libs are turning against unsustainable renewable rubbish as it simply doubles the cost of electricity as the renewable rubbish MUST be backed up by Primary Power coal and or hydro and so the power is being generated twice!!!!

Mal is pushing to save Liddell coal generator as the writing is on the wall that the Greeny sabotage of the once cheap and reliable Australian power system is reducing Australia to a 4th world country.

While the Victorian state election is coming there will be all sorts of bulldust from the Libs about renewable rubbish just to fool the dumb Greeny types down there. Once the Libs win the Vic state election the renewable rubbish will be forgotten.

If there was no Govt subsidy, there'd be no coal either.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:47am:

Its time wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australias-biggest-wind-farm-has-been-approved-in-nsw-and-will-generate-enough-power-for-500000-homes/ar-AAvrea7?ocid=spartandhp Have the libtards gone topsy turvy ? And it will only work if is windy, if the wind doesn't blow then those 500 000 homes will be force to pay for extremely expensive back up power. Good luck suckers  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sunlight energy and battery storage dummy.

juliar wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

What good is a power source if it doesn't work when you need it ? Industry needs reliable stable power 24/7 and Secondary Power from solar and wind just cannot supply this. So what is the good of it ? If there was NO govt subsidy there would be NO renewable rubbish. Already the Libs are turning against unsustainable renewable rubbish as it simply doubles the cost of electricity as the renewable rubbish MUST be backed up by Primary Power coal and or hydro and so the power is being generated twice!!!! Mal is pushing to save Liddell coal generator as the writing is on the wall that the Greeny sabotage of the once cheap and reliable Australian power system is reducing Australia to a 4th world country. While the Victorian state election is coming there will be all sorts of bulldust from the Libs about renewable rubbish just to fool the dumb Greeny types down there. Once the Libs win the Vic state election the renewable rubbish will be forgotten.

battery storage can idiot.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 11^th, 2018 at 10:17am:

If there was no Govt subsidy, there'd be no coal either.

Not this old chestnut again.

Solar and wind get more subsidy per MW/h than coal. Much more.