We should all be ashamed of ourselves and the way we have cowardly stood by for the last 40+ years while the indonesians have brutalised and murdered women and killed all with our government's tacit approval and continue to do to the West Papuans.

If we weren't such gutless scum we would have stepped in like good neighbors and stopped this vile behavior immediately.


If those muslim scum raped and killed hundreds of thousands of our fellow Australians we would be horrified if no-one could be fkked to come to our aid.


And these pieces of sh1t found it funny enough to write down their 'opinions' on official reports.   >:( >:( >:(



AUSTRALIA and East Timor have finally ended a longstanding feud, after the two countries yesterday signed a treaty defining a permanent maritime border.

But little has been said of research detailing the extent to which the Australian government trivialised severe human rights abuses against the Timorese in the 1970s, after they were invaded by Indonesia.

Over and over again, officials within the Fraser government were told of the mass killings, sexual violence, theft and bombing attacks taking place.

They didn’t just deny the allegations. They mocked them unmercifully.

In December 1975, shortly after Labor Prime Minister Gough Whitlam was deposed, Indonesia invaded East Timor in what was the country’s largest military operation, backed by Australia.

The new Fraser government believed the operation would be quick and peaceful. Not so.

By 1977, the situation was dire. Severe human rights abuses, massacres, beatings, rapes and forced starvation became the ugly reality for the people of East Timor. The conflict raged for 25 years and cost over 100,000 lives.

As The Diplomat recently reported, accounts of these events were made public by former military intelligence officer James Dunn, who served as Australia’s consul in Portuguese Timor.


He published a crucial report on the atrocities taking place in East Timor in the 1970s, called The Dunn Report On East Timor.

The report featured interviews with Timorese refugees in Portugal, who spoke of widespread killings, sexual violence and deliberately induced famines.

Dunn’s findings were published in Australian newspapers and sent to politicians, including his old colleagues in Foreign Affairs.

He described the brutality of Indonesia’s invasion, stating that “refugees became prisoners in the refugee camps and none of the aid channelled via the Indonesian Red Cross reached the refugees”.


http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/australias-disturbing-response-to-human-rights-abuses-in-east-timor-revealed/news-story/a7c37128af2233e98ad0f797253ae375

I agree BigOl....Australia has nothing to be proud of over it's treatment of East Timor!!!

>:( >:( >:(

Aren't there 5 or 6 religions in Indonesia ?

Its time wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:17pm:

Aren't there 5 or 6 religions in Indonesia ?

Yeah only 225 million or 87% are muslims including nearly everyone who is charge, sorry for not being verbose in my explanation and providing you with an accurate religious breakdown of those filthy scum.

Looks like you'll need to apologise for their behaviour toward the Timorese and Papuans elsewhere.

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:11pm:

I agree BigOl....Australia has nothing to be proud of over it's treatment of East Timor!!! >:( >:( >:(

it sickened me to watch Aussies having to show them respect during major exercises where we only provided them with skills to better kill women and children

To know that those scumbag public servants found the rape and murder of East Timorese to be hugely funny sickens me even more.  >:( >:( >:( >:(

This Topic was moved here from Politicians Suck by Setanta.

AND over 100,000 West Papuans killed and raids across the border by Indos and their lackeys, into New Guinea territory, killing off people who fled the bastards, and who were arming themselves with sticks and old Enfield rifles for a comeback...

It can be cold in them Highlands, brothers.... take three blankets... on your watching brief....

What kind of moral status does 'Australia' under its politicians have when it not only stands idly by, but actively aids and abets this kind of slaughter of a separate and sovereign people by actively supporting the regime that does the slaughter and invasion?

This is not the Australia we all stood for in countless ways.... a gutless, slime-sucking paradise for leeches who suck the life out of it by supporting any low-life ideology that comes along and who use it to further their own parasitism.... and by that I mean any whining group that comes along and wants preferential treatment....

Tell me I'm wrong....

I've stood against this regime for many years now.... and I suspect I will do so until the day I die - and until they unilaterally withdraw from West Papua and Timor and pay compensation to their people, which will never be enough.  Kopassus - MERDE!

Shame, Australia!  SHAME!

J'accuse!!

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:42pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:11pm: I agree BigOl....Australia has nothing to be proud of over it's treatment of East Timor!!! >:( >:( >:( it sickened me to watch Aussies having to show them respect during major exercises where we only provided them with skills to better kill women and children To know that those scumbag public servants found the rape and murder of East Timorese to be hugely funny sickens me even more.  >:( >:( >:( >:(

The only value out of the exercises was in determining the real capacity of these assassins of the innocent .... and making sure that in 'training' them they were rendered definitely vulnerable to our tactics.

Know your enemy.... honour him afterward, at his funeral.

Public servants?  Who cares... just another group of leeches.

If a global sized war breaks out - who do you think those Indo leeches will side with?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 1:28am:

AND over 100,000 West Papuans killed and raids across the border by Indos and their lackeys, into New Guinea territory, killing off people who fled the bastards, and who were arming themselves with sticks and old Enfield rifles for a comeback... It can be cold in them Highlands, brothers.... take three blankets... on your watching brief.... What kind of moral status does 'Australia' under its politicians have when it not only stands idly by, but actively aids and abets this kind of slaughter of a separate and sovereign people by actively supporting the regime that does the slaughter and invasion? This is not the Australia we all stood for in countless ways.... a gutless, slime-sucking paradise for leeches who suck the life out of it by supporting any low-life ideology that comes along and who use it to further their own parasitism.... and by that I mean any whining group that comes along and wants preferential treatment.... Tell me I'm wrong.... I've stood against this regime for many years now.... and I suspect I will do so until the day I die - and until they unilaterally withdraw from West Papua and Timor and pay compensation to their people, which will never be enough.  Kopassus - MERDE! Shame, Australia!  SHAME! J'accuse!!

Totally agree Grap

I had an old mate, he was about 80 - we shared accommodation for a while.  He was a Lieutenant in 2/2 Commandos in ET... did the parade at the local RSL on ANZAC Day.

The whole thing about Indonesia and ET and the rest is a disgrace on this nation - a bunch of gutless wonders.

Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:08am:

I had an old mate, he was about 80 - we shared accommodation for a while.  He was a Lieutenant in 2/2 Commandos in ET... did the parade at the local RSL on ANZAC Day. The whole thing about Indonesia and ET and the rest is a disgrace on this nation - a bunch of gutless wonders.

What saddens me the most is that as a whole, Australia really never gave a fkk about Timor or now West Papua, these same people would scream blue murder if only a small proportion of the horrors bestowed by indonesia happen to them.


Our self-serving politicians meekly stood by while this was happening and the public servants thought is was just some fkking joke.


I for one will never forgive fraser, hawke or keating and I will never forgive those vile pigs the indonesians, the whole country could be bombed into the fkking stone age for all I care.  >:( >:( >:(

rhino wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:15am:

Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum.

Like what shooting the indon soldiers while we on exercise in Shoalwater? You fkken clown!

rhino wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:15am:

Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum.

An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero.

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:18am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:08am: I had an old mate, he was about 80 - we shared accommodation for a while.  He was a Lieutenant in 2/2 Commandos in ET... did the parade at the local RSL on ANZAC Day. The whole thing about Indonesia and ET and the rest is a disgrace on this nation - a bunch of gutless wonders. What saddens me the most is that as a whole, Australia really never gave a fkk about Timor or now West Papua, these same people would scream blue murder if only a small proportion of the horrors bestowed by indonesia happen to them. Our self-serving politicians meekly stood by while this was happening and the public servants thought is was just some fkking joke. I for one will never forgive fraser, hawke or keating and I will never forgive those vile pigs the indonesians, the whole country could be bombed into the fkking stone age for all I care.  >:( >:( >:(

They are stone age with a little cash to make it look good - just to give a nice veneer over their essential savagery.

I've never been a racist, as anyone who knows me can testify - and I never put blame on the people of these states - but the clowns who strive to be the 'government' and 'power' in those nations are utter trash.

And 'diplomatically' we as a nation say it's perfectly all right for them to commit crimes against humanity under the guise of 'sovereignty of nations' - an argument that did not work for Germany in WW II  - but then Hitler did make the mistake of declaring war against the Rest of The West.

So we, as a nation once proud, stand by while crimes against humanity occur in neighbouring countries, as long as those countries are not 'at war' with us or are not an 'ally' under attack.

What a load of bullshit.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:37am:

rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero.

isnt that what you are doing grap??>..only from the safety of your home.......

you are rubbishing all Australians  over something you and I wouldnt know the half of.......

what would you have the govt do?????..Howard coped all sorts of flak from the left over Timor...so those that did step up are condemned....

tell us what you want the govt of the day to do??..


remember labor couldnt hold back an armada of ricketty boats...

just one small detail.



Armed forces personnel      
Australian....51,000
Ranked 67th.      

Indonesia....297,000
Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia

it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view.

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:18am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:08am: I had an old mate, he was about 80 - we shared accommodation for a while.  He was a Lieutenant in 2/2 Commandos in ET... did the parade at the local RSL on ANZAC Day. The whole thing about Indonesia and ET and the rest is a disgrace on this nation - a bunch of gutless wonders. What saddens me the most is that as a whole, Australia really never gave a fkk about Timor or now West Papua, these same people would scream blue murder if only a small proportion of the horrors bestowed by indonesia happen to them. Our self-serving politicians meekly stood by while this was happening and the public servants thought is was just some fkking joke. I for one will never forgive fraser, hawke or keating and I will never forgive those vile pigs the indonesians, the whole country could be bombed into the fkking stone age for all I care.  >:( >:( >:(

What about the Howard Government....The actions of the Howard Government were completely self serving and counter productive to East Timor independence....Why am I not surprised you are a partisan hack who looks past the actions of the Coalition....The only reason you mentioned Fraser was because he started the crap in the first place....Howard finished the hatchet job???

::) ::) ::)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-21/henriss-address-the-oil-injustice/6790978

They have signed the maritime border agreement but they haven't yet agreed on the Sunrise oil&gas processing
We are so full of generosity that we balk at letting them have the processing in Timor, which would mean so much to them.

Re BigO

Indonesia have served and continue to serve as an important buffer between us and the encroaching communist threat.   back in the 50s to 70s, the Indonesians had helped to crack down on the spread of communism, and this is why all the atrocities that committed were not given any attention. 

This is the sad world of geopolitics.  And often, its the people that suffers. 

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:00am:

Re BigO Indonesia have served and continue to serve as an important buffer between us and the encroaching communist threat.   back in the 50s to 70s, the Indonesians had helped to crack down on the spread of communism, and this is why all the atrocities that committed were not given any attention.  This is the sad world of geopolitics.  And often, its the people that suffers.

Chamberlainism.........or appeasement.......

cods wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 6:30am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37am: rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero. isnt that what you are doing grap??>..only from the safety of your home....... you are rubbishing all Australians  over something you and I wouldnt know the half of....... what would you have the govt do?????..Howard coped all sorts of flak from the left over Timor...so those that did step up are condemned.... tell us what you want the govt of the day to do??.. remember labor couldnt hold back an armada of ricketty boats... just one small detail. Armed forces personnel       Australian....51,000 Ranked 67th.       Indonesia....297,000 Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view.

Emotive nonsense, cods - I'm criticising government - not 'every Australian'.... get with the program here, and this issue is one I've long argued here and elsewhere.

Government should have taken a clear stand and gathered international support for stopping the atrocities and such... there are plenty out there to support such a move, including the United States, which will intervene if we are attacked.  I doubt the 297,000 Indos in arms would stick around long enough to do more than raise heel dust......

As for Indonesia being a buffer zone for the Communist Peril - that's all well and good - but they do that for themselves - not for us, and we owe them nothing for that.

It is the gutlessness of government in not speaking out that is at issue here, and it has little to do with Labor and a few rickety boats - those still come, BTW, but are hijacked on the High Seas and forced elsewhere.

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:27am:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:18am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:08am: I had an old mate, he was about 80 - we shared accommodation for a while.  He was a Lieutenant in 2/2 Commandos in ET... did the parade at the local RSL on ANZAC Day. The whole thing about Indonesia and ET and the rest is a disgrace on this nation - a bunch of gutless wonders. What saddens me the most is that as a whole, Australia really never gave a fkk about Timor or now West Papua, these same people would scream blue murder if only a small proportion of the horrors bestowed by indonesia happen to them. Our self-serving politicians meekly stood by while this was happening and the public servants thought is was just some fkking joke. I for one will never forgive fraser, hawke or keating and I will never forgive those vile pigs the indonesians, the whole country could be bombed into the fkking stone age for all I care.  >:( >:( >:( What about the Howard Government....The actions of the Howard Government were completely self serving and counter productive to East Timor independence....Why am I not surprised you are a partisan hack who looks past the actions of the Coalition....The only reason you mentioned Fraser was because he started the crap in the first place....Howard finished the hatchet job??? ::) ::) ::) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-21/henriss-address-the-oil-injustice/6790978

You do know I hate that little grub howard, so top notch reply there champ.

Having said that, how many Timorese are being rapes and murdered by those filthy scumbag indonesians?

cods wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 6:30am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37am: rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero. isnt that what you are doing grap??>..only from the safety of your home....... you are rubbishing all Australians  over something you and I wouldnt know the half of....... what would you have the govt do?????..Howard coped all sorts of flak from the left over Timor...so those that did step up are condemned.... tell us what you want the govt of the day to do??.. remember labor couldnt hold back an armada of ricketty boats... just one small detail. Armed forces personnel       Australian....51,000 Ranked 67th.       Indonesia....297,000 Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view.

So know a lot about the 'gap' do you? Must be all those years of military service.


Australia very much had the ability to bomb those grubs back into the fkken stone age, I maintained that capability for a few years, while you were doing .................?

Looks like you are the only one here who sat comfortably on the lounge.

Fuzzball wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:45pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 11:00am: Re BigO Indonesia have served and continue to serve as an important buffer between us and the encroaching communist threat.   back in the 50s to 70s, the Indonesians had helped to crack down on the spread of communism, and this is why all the atrocities that committed were not given any attention.  This is the sad world of geopolitics.  And often, its the people that suffers.  Chamberlainism.........or appeasement.......

Im surprised we haven't had the apologist here explaining that due to our cowardice and appeasement we manage to keep the murder rate in the hundreds of thousands and not more and it is indonesias right to treat their people as they see fit.

We can never trust Indonesia and we must maintain a Military Force strong enough to deal with Indonesia should they become a threat to this Country

In fact going back to the 70's one of the main reasons Australia bought the F-111's p-lane was that they had the capacity to fly to Indonesia on a mission and return without refuelling

When I was in the RAAF Indonesia was considered a real threat to this Country

With Donald Trump in charge of America I wouldn't place to much confidence in America racing to Australia's defence

Has Donald Trump excluded Australia from the tarrifs which will affect this Country?

I see Canada and Mexico on the exclusions, I don't see Australia

We MUST be able to defend ourselves in our own right

We had our chance to help shape Indonesia when they came to us for help during their war of Independence from the Dutch.  The Government of the day turned their backs on Sukarno and Co.  The end result was the creation of his regime and Konfrontasi.   We turned our backs on the West New Guineans when the US and the Dutch pulled the carpet from under us and we had no means to back our threats against the Indonesian Konfrontasi against the Dutch. We stood up to the Indonesians in Borneo 'cause the British backed us and the Malaysians (who weren't without fault either).  We turned our backs on the East Timorese in 1975 'cause the US had backed Suharto and didn't want a Communist state created on our back door step.  Something often forgotten is that Fretlin had backing from Vietnam and was an avowed Marxist organisation.    We didn't turn our back in 1999 when the Indonesians held a plebiscite in East Timor and were forced to pull out.

Now, what did we get from turning our backs?  Well, quite a few more Australian citizens who weren't sent off to die in a war with Indonesia.    We also gained respect from the Indonesians, both before but more particularly after the Boxing Day Tsunami.   Yes, we purchased that respect and we continue to pay for it.  However, it has meant that the boats have stopped.   It has also meant that the drug trade has been disrupted.  Terrorism on our doorstep has been disrupted.   We have saved millions of dollars n defence expenditure.

Of course, to some, to save such money rather than "thrust their hands, wrist deep into the blood of Australia's young..." (a quote from a rejoinder during the 1966 Election campaign about Vietnam).   What is also forgotten that in 1975 Australian society was disunited because of the Vietnam War.  Australia wasn't interested in another war. Also we were basically broke.  The resources boom which never came, never came.   Our economy was in tatters and it remained in tatters until the ALP was election 1983.  Thanks Tories.   ::)

Bad luck for the West New Guineans and the East Timorese but in reality, neither were our responsibility.   In RealPolitik, it is much better to look after your own citizens than the citizens of another nation or colony.   If they were anyone's responsibility they were the Dutch and the Portuguese's (respectively).  They decided to pull out.  In the first case, the UN moved in.  Blame the UN for the Indonesians taking over.    You're all usually good at blaming the UN for all the world's calamities.   In the latter case, the Indonesians invaded after a civil war where their proxy lost.

Now, instead of carping over lost opportunities, how about we build a bright, new future, with a democratic Indonesia?   They kicked their last dictator out 20 years ago, remember.   How about we help them rein in their military?   And how do we do that?  By teaching them how to be responsible.   Tsk, tsk.    ::) ::)

red baron wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:00pm:

In fact going back to the 70's one of the main reasons Australia bought the F-111's p-lane was that they had the capacity to fly to Indonesia on a mission and return without refuelling

We actually purchase the F-111s in 1963, not the 1970s.   We actually originally purchased them to attack the PRC from Butterworth with atomic weapons (supplied in theory by the British).   They were later justified because of the TNI-AU's purchase of Tu16 bombers.


Quote:

When I was in the RAAF Indonesia was considered a real threat to this Country

It may have been a minor threat to Australia however since the retirement of the Tu16s, it has never constituted a major one.   It has always lacked the ability to attack anywhere of value except Darwin.   Since the creation of Tindal Air Base, that threat has been considerably reduced.  Along of course with the whole "northwards" reorientation of the ADF.


Quote:

We MUST be able to defend ourselves in our own right

Of course we should and we are increasingly able to.  The purchase of the two LHDs, the counter-air Destroyers and the Collins and their replacements will be a big help.  As will the F-35s when they arrive.  The M1a1 AIM is a questionable choice because of the problems of moving them in large enough numbers around Australia.   

rhino wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:15am:

Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum.

I have often wondered that myself. Not much good writing up your opinions on a forum if that is all people are going to do. Pick yourself out of your chair and actually think of a strategy to overcome your perceived problems.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:04pm:

We had our chance to help shape Indonesia when they came to us for help during their war of Independence from the Dutch.  The Government of the day turned their backs on Sukarno and Co.  The end result was the creation of his regime and Konfrontasi.   We turned our backs on the West New Guineans when the US and the Dutch pulled the carpet from under us and we had no means to back our threats against the Indonesian Konfrontasi against the Dutch. We stood up to the Indonesians in Borneo 'cause the British backed us and the Malaysians (who weren't without fault either).  We turned our backs on the East Timorese in 1975 'cause the US had backed Suharto and didn't want a Communist state created on our back door step.  Something often forgotten is that Fretlin had backing from Vietnam and was an avowed Marxist organisation.    We didn't turn our back in 1999 when the Indonesians held a plebiscite in East Timor and were forced to pull out. Now, what did we get from turning our backs?  Well, quite a few more Australian citizens who weren't sent off to die in a war with Indonesia.    We also gained respect from the Indonesians, both before but more particularly after the Boxing Day Tsunami.   Yes, we purchased that respect and we continue to pay for it.  However, it has meant that the boats have stopped.   It has also meant that the drug trade has been disrupted.  Terrorism on our doorstep has been disrupted.   We have saved millions of dollars n defence expenditure. Of course, to some, to save such money rather than "thrust their hands, wrist deep into the blood of Australia's young..." (a quote from a rejoinder during the 1966 Election campaign about Vietnam).   What is also forgotten that in 1975 Australian society was disunited because of the Vietnam War.  Australia wasn't interested in another war. Also we were basically broke.  The resources boom which never came, never came.   Our economy was in tatters and it remained in tatters until the ALP was election 1983.  Thanks Tories.   ::) Bad luck for the West New Guineans and the East Timorese but in reality, neither were our responsibility.   In RealPolitik, it is much better to look after your own citizens than the citizens of another nation or colony.   If they were anyone's responsibility they were the Dutch and the Portuguese's (respectively).  They decided to pull out.  In the first case, the UN moved in.  Blame the UN for the Indonesians taking over.    You're all usually good at blaming the UN for all the world's calamities.   In the latter case, the Indonesians invaded after a civil war where their proxy lost. Now, instead of carping over lost opportunities, how about we build a bright, new future, with a democratic Indonesia?   They kicked their last dictator out 20 years ago, remember.   How about we help them rein in their military?   And how do we do that?  By teaching them how to be responsible.   Tsk, tsk.    ::) ::)

Yes, yes we focused on being 'jack' arseholes and looked after ourselves while ignoring the atrocities of this filthy scum the indonesians, kinda the point of this post.

We had the capacity to reign them in we just lacked the willpower and moral fortitude and for that privilege we will always be dammed as gutless cowards.


No Australian should be proud of what have done and allowed to be done to our neighbours.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:11pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 3:00pm: In fact going back to the 70's one of the main reasons Australia bought the F-111's p-lane was that they had the capacity to fly to Indonesia on a mission and return without refuelling We actually purchase the F-111s in 1963, not the 1970s.   We actually originally purchased them to attack the PRC from Butterworth with atomic weapons (supplied in theory by the British).   They were later justified because of the TNI-AU's purchase of Tu16 bombers.

We did sign the paperwork in the 60s but we didn't get delivery until '73 the 24 aircraft were the most lethal weapon in the area and lobbing a few 2000 pounders in downtown jakarta would have reigned in their murderous and raping ways.


When we invaded (eventually) Timor all we had to do park a few Pigs at Tindal to let the grubs know we meant business and to not even think about launching any sort of attack on our people.


All we proved before that was that we were more cowardly than the muslims, unwilling to support our neighbours when they needed us most. Something we still continue to do.  >:( >:( >:(

It's about concocted white guilt - can't tell brown people when they are doing evil. Not to Indonesians, not to Aborigines, Africans, Arabs.

ONLY white people can be criticised for evil deeds, otherwise racism will be instantly deployed. Any reference to universal human values will be immediately undermined as 'white social constructs to subjugate the tinted races'.

It's the new Nazi/Stalinism. Dissenters will be persecuted.

Frank wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 5:41pm:

It's about concocted white guilt - can't tell brown people when they are doing evil. Not to Indonesians, not to Aborigines, Africans, Arabs. ONLY white people can be criticised for evil deeds, otherwise racism will be instantly deployed. Any reference to universal human values will be immediately undermined as 'white social constructs to subjugate the tinted races'. It's the new Nazi/Stalinism. Dissenters will be persecuted.

I don't quite know how you can draw such a statement. This may be how some feel in relation to the actions of other cultures and races, however I don't believe individuals cannot tell others when they are doing evil. Are you stating that if anything is said its classified as racist??

Bit of a stretch from Stalinism, I don't see gulags, prison camps or propaganda anywhere?

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Yes, yes we focused on being 'jack' arseholes and looked after ourselves while ignoring the atrocities of this filthy scum the indonesians, kinda the point of this post.

Actually, it's a recognition that we had initially a lack of willpower, then a lack of the means and finally a lack of support.   Without all three, we were basically in the pooh.  The Tories under Menzies thought Sukarno was a Communist.  He wasn't but he was something their Tory minds couldn't recognise - a nationalist.    The Australian Government then carried on that thinking about Suharto, despite him coming to power by defeating the Communists.  Without US support we were basically stuffed.   We only just carried off the East Timor intervention because the Indonesians didn't want to fight over East Timor.  They'd had enough of the place and the people.


Quote:

We had the capacity to reign them in we just lacked the willpower and moral fortitude and for that privilege we will always be dammed as gutless cowards.

You only gain moral fortitude through the belief of the people.  West New Guinea was a Dutch, then UN matter for the most part.   East Timor was a Portuguese matter for the most part.  Both the Dutch and the UN ditched their responsibilities and the Indonesians moved in.   Bad luck for the West New Guineans and the East Timorese.   Not our problem, morally or fiscally or politically.   We just tried to surf the waves that flowed from it.    The Australian Government was not prepared to risk Australian lives over the matter.


Quote:

No Australian should be proud of what have done and allowed to be done to our neighbours.

Dunno why not.   We acted in OUR best interests.   We protected OUR people.   We defended OUR nation.   That is what our Government is charged with.   We are not the Government of either West New Guinea or East Timor.   QED.    ::) ::)

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 3:11pm: red baron wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 3:00pm: In fact going back to the 70's one of the main reasons Australia bought the F-111's p-lane was that they had the capacity to fly to Indonesia on a mission and return without refuelling We actually purchase the F-111s in 1963, not the 1970s.   We actually originally purchased them to attack the PRC from Butterworth with atomic weapons (supplied in theory by the British).   They were later justified because of the TNI-AU's purchase of Tu16 bombers. We did sign the paperwork in the 60s but we didn't get delivery until '73 the 24 aircraft were the most lethal weapon in the area and lobbing a few 2000 pounders in downtown jakarta would have reigned in their murderous and raping ways. When we invaded (eventually) Timor all we had to do park a few Pigs at Tindal to let the grubs know we meant business and to not even think about launching any sort of attack on our people. All we proved before that was that we were more cowardly than the muslims, unwilling to support our neighbours when they needed us most. Something we still continue to do.  >:( >:( >:(

Ah, yes, lets go to war over something which at the time hadn't happened yet.   Yep, real smart thinking that.

West New Guinea became part of Indonesia in questionable circumstances but we had spent our bolt four years earlier.  The US didn't back us, we lacked the military means to intervene (we had, in 1960, three battalions of infantry, one of which was committed to Malaya, the one was training to go and the third had just returned).  Our artillery was still equipped with 25 Pounders.  We had just started looking at a new APC (M113) and we had just accepted the Centurion tank (which would have been pretty useless up there).  We had four squadrons of short-range, tactical fighters - CA27 Avon Sabres.  We had two squadrons of short-range, tactical bombers - Canberras.   We had two squadrons of C-47 Dakotas and had just purchased a squadron of C-130A Hercules.  We had one ASW Carrier (Melbourne) and four destroyers, just having lost the fifth (Voyager).   Admittedly, the Indonesians had even less but they were closer to West New Guinea than we were (all our fleet assets were based in Sydney/Melbourne.  Our air assets were basically based in SE Queensland.  Our land assets were based primarily in Sydney/Melbourne.)

Ditto for East Timor.  The US had just been booted out of Vietnam.  We had left three years earlier.  Australian society was in turmoil from our involvement in Vietnam.   Our defence forces had been run down.  The US backed Indonesia again.   It didn't even consult us.  Nixon was such a bastard, hey?

Why do you have problems facing the historic reality of our circumstances in 1960 and 1975?   This is what happened.  This is why it happened.   Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)

goldkam wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 5:52pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 5:41pm: It's about concocted white guilt - can't tell brown people when they are doing evil. Not to Indonesians, not to Aborigines, Africans, Arabs. ONLY white people can be criticised for evil deeds, otherwise racism will be instantly deployed. Any reference to universal human values will be immediately undermined as 'white social constructs to subjugate the tinted races'. It's the new Nazi/Stalinism. Dissenters will be persecuted. I don't quite know how you can draw such a statement. This may be how some feel in relation to the actions of other cultures and races, however I don't believe individuals cannot tell others when they are doing evil. Are you stating that if anything is said its classified as racist?? Bit of a stretch from Stalinism, I don't see gulags, prison camps or propaganda anywhere?

Removing Aboriginal children from toxic environments is avoided for fear of accusations of racism and another stolen rescued generation.

It's almost impossible to say no to third world immigration for feear of being called racist.

You cannot criticise third world countries like Indonesia,without them immediately retorting  with faux 'post-colonial' outrage.

Imagine all this in reverse - if Australia, being criticised by Indians for racism, retorted that we do not need lecturing from a primitive country with a long and enduring custom of caste system and unbelievable human poverty and suffering.

Or to Aborigines, that they should put their own communities and lives in order and stop brutalising, raping and beating  each other before they put their hands out for more money from the rest of Australia.

By Stalinism I was referring to politically correct speech. And yes, there IS propaganda everywhere. The gulags are now compulsory re-education courses in diversity and the like.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 6:08pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 5:30pm: Yes, yes we focused on being 'jack' arseholes and looked after ourselves while ignoring the atrocities of this filthy scum the indonesians, kinda the point of this post. Actually, it's a recognition that we had initially a lack of willpower, then a lack of the means and finally a lack of support.   Without all three, we were basically in the pooh.  The Tories under Menzies thought Sukarno was a Communist.  He wasn't but he was something their Tory minds couldn't recognise - a nationalist.    The Australian Government then carried on that thinking about Suharto, despite him coming to power by defeating the Communists.  Without US support we were basically stuffed.   We only just carried off the East Timor intervention because the Indonesians didn't want to fight over East Timor.  They'd had enough of the place and the people. Quote: We had the capacity to reign them in we just lacked the willpower and moral fortitude and for that privilege we will always be dammed as gutless cowards. You only gain moral fortitude through the belief of the people.  West New Guinea was a Dutch, then UN matter for the most part.   East Timor was a Portuguese matter for the most part.  Both the Dutch and the UN ditched their responsibilities and the Indonesians moved in.   Bad luck for the West New Guineans and the East Timorese.   Not our problem, morally or fiscally or politically.   We just tried to surf the waves that flowed from it.    The Australian Government was not prepared to risk Australian lives over the matter. [quote] No Australian should be proud of what have done and allowed to be done to our neighbours.

Dunno why not.   We acted in OUR best interests.   We protected OUR people.   We defended OUR nation.   That is what our Government is charged with.   We are not the Government of either West New Guinea or East Timor.   QED.    ::) ::)
[/quote]


My point exactly, we only do what benefits us, fkk everyone else, fkk the weak and vulnerable, if they are being killed in their hundreds of thousands, not our fkken problem. Our actions were made even more vile and despicable by the fact that, what was being done to the Timorese, our fellow Australians found it funny.


We had the capacity to knock the fkken sh1t out of those jungle monkeys and we did nothing.


We better hope we never find ourselves in need, I doubt we would be worthy of any real effort by anyone to come help us, no-one likes a jack piece of sh1t, no matter how nice their beaches are.

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 6:37pm:

My point exactly, we only do what benefits us, fkk everyone else, fkk the weak and vulnerable, if they are being killed in their hundreds of thousands, not our fkken problem. Our actions were made even more vile and despicable by the fact that, what was being done to the Timorese, our fellow Australians found it funny. We had the capacity to knock the fkken sh1t out of those jungle monkeys and we did nothing. We better hope we never find ourselves in need, I doubt we would be worthy of any real effort by anyone to come help us, no-one likes a jack piece of sh1t, no matter how nice their beaches are.

All nations, at their most basic, act out of self-interest, BigOl64.  That self-interest can be modified by the needs of neighbours, allies, friends, etc. if necessary and it suits our needs.  It is why we went to war in 1914 and 1939 and 1950 and 1965.   It was why we became involved in the Malayan Emergency, Somalia and finally in East Timor, Solomon Islands and Iraq (twice).    It was to our benefit it seemed and within our abilities to intervene.

In 1960 and 1975, it was outside our abilities and it did not seem to directly benefit us.  In both cases, the Government of the day acted on advice from the Public Service and the Military Chiefs.   They advised us not to, because in both cases we lacked support from the US.   Without, it was determined that we had little chance of success on our own.   Now, you can blame the Government for being over-cautious but it was cautious.   

We had survived WWII and Vietnam.   After both conflicts, the Government of the day had run down the ADF.  The civilian economy had benefited in both cases.   In both cases we were not prepared to fight in either West New Guinea or East Timor, on our own.    We barely were when we did intervene in 1999, after we had rebuilt the ADF.  Without significant leasing of Russian heavy transport aircraft it wouldn't have worked.

As much as you moan and whinge, the Australian Government acted for the best interest of Australia.   We did intervene in 1999, we did undo our failure to intervene earlier.   We helped the East Timorese achieve independence.    West New Guinea?  Not going to happen.  The Indonesian claim is on firmer ground.  It is essentially a part of Indonesia.  ::)

   

Australia should just leave all other countries to their own devices.

Zero aid

Zero interference

Zero money

But we should also spend up big on weapons and retaliate with extreme prejudice any incursions into our land.

We do not need them, but they need us

Let's see how good they are without all our aid and money.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:37am:

rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero.

yeah, you are making a real difference, here whinging on an internet forum.  What protests did you organise or participate in? petitions? Anything?

red baron wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:00pm:

When I was in the RAAF Indonesia was considered a real threat to this Country

Rubbish.

rhino wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 1:48am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37am: rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero. yeah, you are making a real difference, here whinging on an internet forum.  What protests did you organise or participate in? petitions? Anything?

You do realise that service personnel don't protest or participate in petitions, don't you?

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 2:04am:

rhino wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 1:48am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37am: rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero. yeah, you are making a real difference, here whinging on an internet forum.  What protests did you organise or participate in? petitions? Anything? You do realise that service personnel don't protest or participate in petitions, don't you?

Grappler hasnt been in in the forces for decades. This is Grappler.

---

rhino wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 2:20am:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 2:04am: rhino wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 1:48am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37am: rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero. yeah, you are making a real difference, here whinging on an internet forum.  What protests did you organise or participate in? petitions? Anything? You do realise that service personnel don't protest or participate in petitions, don't you? Grappler hasnt been in in the forces for decades. This is Grappler.

Indonesians haven't been raping and murdering Timorese for decades either.

Last year, the Maori-like Borneans marched in their thousands, traditionally armed against the Moslem trouble-makers.
This 'Indigenous' front was a show of force against Moslem Indonesia and was openly making a statement of solidarity with Hindu Balinese and 5 other minority groups against Moslem Indonesia.
By 'coincidence' - the Phillipines waged a mini-war against Moslem Terrorists/Drug Dealers around the same time and 'connections' were made between leaders of the Indonesian Indigenous groups and the Phillipines.
By 'coincidence' - the East Timorese and Micronesians also pepped up their opinions against 'Moslem' Indonesia.
Which brought it to Irian Jaya and Papua New Guinea.
Unofficially, a lot of PNG Military is stacked near the Border to Irian Jaya.
Unofficially, the Solomon Islands - have pledged 'military' support.

...currently the East Timorese have just expressed a need for stronger ties with Australia as well as some 'benefits' like International Water zones and more.


In other words - the whole region is 'teaming up' against 'Moslem' Indonesia (not indigenous Indonesia0.

Jasin wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 3:00am:

Last year, the Maori-like Borneans marched in their thousands, traditionally armed against the Moslem trouble-makers. This 'Indigenous' front was a show of force against Moslem Indonesia and was openly making a statement of solidarity with Hindu Balinese and 5 other minority groups against Moslem Indonesia. By 'coincidence' - the Phillipines waged a mini-war against Moslem Terrorists/Drug Dealers around the same time and 'connections' were made between leaders of the Indonesian Indigenous groups and the Phillipines. By 'coincidence' - the East Timorese and Micronesians also pepped up their opinions against 'Moslem' Indonesia. Which brought it to Irian Jaya and Papua New Guinea. Unofficially, a lot of PNG Military is stacked near the Border to Irian Jaya. Unofficially, the Solomon Islands - have pledged 'military' support. ...currently the East Timorese have just expressed a need for stronger ties with Australia as well as some 'benefits' like International Water zones and more. In other words - the whole region is 'teaming up' against 'Moslem' Indonesia (not indigenous Indonesia0.

Nice  :) :) :) :)

Anything to keep those bastards in their place

Bigol

---

rhino wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Bigol

Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:13pm:

rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran".

I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin.

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 2:40pm:

cods wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:30am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37am: rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:15am: Just wondering why you armchair heroes didnt actually do something about it instead of whinging on an obscure internet forum. An invasion of one?  Yeah - that'd work, hero. isnt that what you are doing grap??>..only from the safety of your home....... you are rubbishing all Australians  over something you and I wouldnt know the half of....... what would you have the govt do?????..Howard coped all sorts of flak from the left over Timor...so those that did step up are condemned.... tell us what you want the govt of the day to do??.. remember labor couldnt hold back an armada of ricketty boats... just one small detail. Armed forces personnel       Australian....51,000 Ranked 67th.       Indonesia....297,000 Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view. So know a lot about the 'gap' do you? Must be all those years of military service. Australia very much had the ability to bomb those grubs back into the fkken stone age, I maintained that capability for a few years, while you were doing .................? Looks like you are the only one here who sat comfortably on the lounge.

Here you go, boys, Hole "maintained capability".

That's Big General Hole to you.

Give us 5 minutes and he'd be squealing like a right old pro. Now that's capability.

Karnal wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:32pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:13pm: rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran". I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin.

You and your mates will try and be-head him.

Valkie wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:04pm:

Australia should just leave all other countries to their own devices. Zero aid Zero interference Zero money

And watch the Chinese get all the contracts.

That could work.

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:32pm: BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:13pm: rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran". I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin. You and your mates will try and be-head him.

No way. We always go soft on a first-timer.

You don't want the little tarts running to the MO.

Karnal wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:42pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:39pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:32pm: BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:13pm: rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran". I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin. You and your mates will try and be-head him. No way. We always go soft on a first-timer. You don't want the little tarts running to the MO.

;D How about a nice little caning followed by a few buckets of saltwater?

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:42pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:39pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:32pm: BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:13pm: rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran". I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin. You and your mates will try and be-head him. No way. We always go soft on a first-timer. You don't want the little tarts running to the MO. ;D How about a nice little caning followed by a few buckets of saltwater?

The Navy does sht like that. We're not poofs, you know.

;)

Karnal wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:32pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:13pm: rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran". I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin.

Coming from a known military impostor, I couldn't give a fkk what you have to say about anything, you lying little grub and or your homosexual rapist mates.


Now run along you fkking  loser, you have been found out and no-one gives a fkk about your heroics.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 2:54pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:32pm: BigOl64 wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:13pm: rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:30pm: Bigol Thanks you civvie wanker.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hole thinks his Air Force apprenticeship makes him a "veteran". I'd give him 2 minutes with me and my mates before he runs off screaming like a precious little virgin. Coming from a known military impostor, I couldn't give a fkk what you have to say about anything, you lying little grub and or your homosexual rapist mates. Now run along you fkking  loser, you have been found out and no-one gives a fkk about your heroics.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Check him out, boys. General Hole's getting wet.

Bags not go slops. i want him while he's still struggling.

cods wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 6:30am:

Armed forces personnel       Australian....51,000 Ranked 67th.       Indonesia....297,000 Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view.

However, once you get down and examine the differences you have Australia has 51,000 full time personnel.  In addition it has another 21,000 Reserve personnel, many of whom have done full time operational service in Soloman Islands, East Timor, Afghanistan.   In addition, the ADF is equipped with high-tech equipment and soon to receive even more advanced equipment in the near future.

Indonesia, OTOH has the majority of it's personnel serving in the Police - which are considered to be part of the military.  Further, while the Indonesian Army has a large number of units, most are smaller than the ADF's comparable units (450 men per Battalion as against 800-900 in the ADF).  Wikipedia makes the follow point:


Quote:

the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance 2007 lists the Army with 2 brigades, (6 battalions), plus 60 other battalions in each Military districts ("Kodam") and nine battalions in Kostrad.[19]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Army#Combat_elements]Source[/url]

Most Indonesian battalions are lightly equipped and lack transport and support elements common to ADF units.  They are assigned primarily to internal security duties, whereas all the ADF units are combat capable.

Konstrad assigned units are directly comparable to ADF units.   However, that is only approximately 40-50,000 men.

Then there is the problem of transporting large numbers of troops to our "Top End".  The Indonesians lack that capability.   While they purchased at the end of the Cold War a large number of ex-East German landing craft, they are assigned to support the civilian economy, being used on inter-island transportation services.

They are re-equipping with German Leopard and Marder MICVs.   However they are relatively small in number and they lack the means of transporting them to the Top End.   Our M1a1 AIM MBTs are their match, while we have a large number of M113s and Bushmasters as well as ASLAVs.    We are about to be re-equipped under LAND 4000 a new IFV (more than likely German Boxers).

Our air force is superior to theirs in numbers and capability.   We have excellent AEW&C aircraft and tankers, which allows us to attack their homeland more easily.   They have a small number of Su27 style fighters.  They have an even smaller number of F-5 fighters.    We have over 75 F/A-18As and Bs fighters.  We have about 36 F-18F&G Strike aircraft.  Soon we will have F-35 JSFs.

Even if they were to attack the Top End, what would they capture?  Darwin?  A small country town.   A few resource sites and a very small population base.   We can destroy most of what they capture on the day they capture it. 

Indonesia is a close match to our defence forces.   It's superiority is based on numbers and numbers prove little apart from your ability to govern your own fractious nation, Cods.   ::)

Let the monkeys come

3 or  4 would feed 1 crock.

And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1

That's why they keep sticking up their finger.

It's as high as they can count.

Dum monkeys..........nuke em all

Valkie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would feed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all

Where do we get the nukes from, Matty?

And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs?

Karnal wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would freed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all Where do we get the nukes from, Matty? And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs?

It's ok analkanal

Australia has no nukes

Our aircraft, ships and soldiers are nuke capable for show.

As far as our monkey neighbours know, we don't got no nukes

Wink wink, nudge nudge

Valkie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 8:25pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would freed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all Where do we get the nukes from, Matty? And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs? It's ok analkanal Australia has no nukes Our aircraft, ships and soldiers are nuke capable for show. As far as our monkey neighbours know, we don't got no nukes Wink wink, nudge nudge

Oh, I see. We're a nuclear power, eh?

Would you like to answer the question about our Boongs?

Karnal wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 8:27pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:25pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would freed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all Where do we get the nukes from, Matty? And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs? It's ok analkanal Australia has no nukes Our aircraft, ships and soldiers are nuke capable for show. As far as our monkey neighbours know, we don't got no nukes Wink wink, nudge nudge Oh, I see. We're a nuclear power, eh? Would you like to answer the question about our Boongs?

Win win

Valkie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:27pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:25pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would freed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all Where do we get the nukes from, Matty? And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs? It's ok analkanal Australia has no nukes Our aircraft, ships and soldiers are nuke capable for show. As far as our monkey neighbours know, we don't got no nukes Wink wink, nudge nudge Oh, I see. We're a nuclear power, eh? Would you like to answer the question about our Boongs? Win win

So we should take out the monkeys in Bali and our own city of Darwin, eh?

Which country did you say you're from again, Matty?

Karnal wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 8:37pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:32pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:27pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:25pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would freed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all Where do we get the nukes from, Matty? And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs? It's ok analkanal Australia has no nukes Our aircraft, ships and soldiers are nuke capable for show. As far as our monkey neighbours know, we don't got no nukes Wink wink, nudge nudge Oh, I see. We're a nuclear power, eh? Would you like to answer the question about our Boongs? Win win So we should take out the monkeys in Bali and our own city of Darwin, eh? Which country did you say you're from again, Matty?

You once again show your ignorance and stooopidity FOOL.

Perhaps analkarnal should read analcerebrum?

How big do you think a nuke is FOOL?

Valkie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 8:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:37pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:32pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:27pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:25pm: Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Let the monkeys come 3 or  4 would freed 1 crock. And being as stooopid these monkeys are, they wouldn't realize that their numbers were thinning, because they can't count beyond .1 That's why they keep sticking up their finger. It's as high as they can count. Dum monkeys..........nuke em all Where do we get the nukes from, Matty? And what happens when the radiation blows back to Darwin and kills off our Boongs? It's ok analkanal Australia has no nukes Our aircraft, ships and soldiers are nuke capable for show. As far as our monkey neighbours know, we don't got no nukes Wink wink, nudge nudge Oh, I see. We're a nuclear power, eh? Would you like to answer the question about our Boongs? Win win So we should take out the monkeys in Bali and our own city of Darwin, eh? Which country did you say you're from again, Matty? You once again show your ignorance and stooopidity FOOL. Perhaps analkarnal should read analcerebrum? How big do you think a nuke is FOOL?

Big enough, Matty.

Or are you suggesting we should outsource our nuclear program to North Korea?

In that case a bit smaller than our fairweather friends the Septic Tanks, but not very accurate, I'd say.

Can't we just blow up their discussion boards? That could work.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 4:04pm:

cods wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:30am: Armed forces personnel       Australian....51,000 Ranked 67th.       Indonesia....297,000 Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view. However, once you get down and examine the differences you have Australia has 51,000 full time personnel.  In addition it has another 21,000 Reserve personnel, many of whom have done full time operational service in Soloman Islands, East Timor, Afghanistan.   In addition, the ADF is equipped with high-tech equipment and soon to receive even more advanced equipment in the near future. Indonesia, OTOH has the majority of it's personnel serving in the Police - which are considered to be part of the military.  Further, while the Indonesian Army has a large number of units, most are smaller than the ADF's comparable units (450 men per Battalion as against 800-900 in the ADF).  Wikipedia makes the follow point: Quote: the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance 2007 lists the Army with 2 brigades, (6 battalions), plus 60 other battalions in each Military districts ("Kodam") and nine battalions in Kostrad.[19] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Army#Combat_elements]Source[/url] Most Indonesian battalions are lightly equipped and lack transport and support elements common to ADF units.  They are assigned primarily to internal security duties, whereas all the ADF units are combat capable. Konstrad assigned units are directly comparable to ADF units.   However, that is only approximately 40-50,000 men. Then there is the problem of transporting large numbers of troops to our "Top End".  The Indonesians lack that capability.   While they purchased at the end of the Cold War a large number of ex-East German landing craft, they are assigned to support the civilian economy, being used on inter-island transportation services. They are re-equipping with German Leopard and Marder MICVs.   However they are relatively small in number and they lack the means of transporting them to the Top End.   Our M1a1 AIM MBTs are their match, while we have a large number of M113s and Bushmasters as well as ASLAVs.    We are about to be re-equipped under LAND 4000 a new IFV (more than likely German Boxers). Our air force is superior to theirs in numbers and capability.   We have excellent AEW&C aircraft and tankers, which allows us to attack their homeland more easily.   They have a small number of Su27 style fighters.  They have an even smaller number of F-5 fighters.    We have over 75 F/A-18As and Bs fighters.  We have about 36 F-18F&G Strike aircraft.  Soon we will have F-35 JSFs. Even if they were to attack the Top End, what would they capture?  Darwin?  A small country town.   A few resource sites and a very small population base.   We can destroy most of what they capture on the day they capture it.  Indonesia is a close match to our defence forces.   It's superiority is based on numbers and numbers prove little apart from your ability to govern your own fractious nation, Cods.   ::)

The indon army, navy & air-force provide nothing more a target rich environment.  They are a country we could bomb into the fkken stone-age without too much effort. And we have always been capable of bringing them to their knees


They are capable of killing women and children, not going up against a vastly superior war machine like ours.


It is only our moral weakness that makes them the viscous pricks they are.

Where was the United bloody Nations in all of this?

As usual this toothless tiger wasn't seen off Nobby's

The U.N. don't mind getting involved in having their hand out to nations to give them money and open their borders but when it comes to confrontation you won't see the U.N. anywhere

It's arguable that Australia was not in a moral position to lecture other countries about genocide and other atrocities after Australia's history in those crimes.

It is very likely that the Indonesian action happened with the implicit consent of Australia and USA for anti-communism reasons.

Australia and USA did not want a Timor that could become communist-ruled.

Looks like the fool is at it again

I think his avitar is an accurate representation of his actual face

Unforeskin the fool that just keeps giving........stoopidity

Unforgiven wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 3:52pm:

It's arguable that Australia was not in a moral position to lecture other countries about genocide and other atrocities after Australia's history in those crimes. It is very likely that the Indonesian action happened with the implicit consent of Australia and USA for anti-communism reasons. Australia and USA did not want a Timor that could become communist-ruled.

Are you a New Zealander?

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 5:20pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 3:52pm: It's arguable that Australia was not in a moral position to lecture other countries about genocide and other atrocities after Australia's history in those crimes. It is very likely that the Indonesian action happened with the implicit consent of Australia and USA for anti-communism reasons. Australia and USA did not want a Timor that could become communist-ruled. Are you a New Zealander?

You have evidently mistaken me for Gordon.

Here's Gordon. Good luck.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4QHv7hEWy6o/Ta6oROL4QeI/AAAAAAAAABE/o5hahW1EYAE/s1600/skinny_man.jpg

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 3:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:04pm: cods wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:30am: Armed forces personnel       Australian....51,000 Ranked 67th.       Indonesia....297,000 Ranked 16th. 6 times more than Australia it looks so easy from a lounge room point of view. However, once you get down and examine the differences you have Australia has 51,000 full time personnel.  In addition it has another 21,000 Reserve personnel, many of whom have done full time operational service in Soloman Islands, East Timor, Afghanistan.   In addition, the ADF is equipped with high-tech equipment and soon to receive even more advanced equipment in the near future. Indonesia, OTOH has the majority of it's personnel serving in the Police - which are considered to be part of the military.  Further, while the Indonesian Army has a large number of units, most are smaller than the ADF's comparable units (450 men per Battalion as against 800-900 in the ADF).  Wikipedia makes the follow point: Quote: the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance 2007 lists the Army with 2 brigades, (6 battalions), plus 60 other battalions in each Military districts ("Kodam") and nine battalions in Kostrad.[19] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Army#Combat_elements]Source[/url] Most Indonesian battalions are lightly equipped and lack transport and support elements common to ADF units.  They are assigned primarily to internal security duties, whereas all the ADF units are combat capable. Konstrad assigned units are directly comparable to ADF units.   However, that is only approximately 40-50,000 men. Then there is the problem of transporting large numbers of troops to our "Top End".  The Indonesians lack that capability.   While they purchased at the end of the Cold War a large number of ex-East German landing craft, they are assigned to support the civilian economy, being used on inter-island transportation services. They are re-equipping with German Leopard and Marder MICVs.   However they are relatively small in number and they lack the means of transporting them to the Top End.   Our M1a1 AIM MBTs are their match, while we have a large number of M113s and Bushmasters as well as ASLAVs.    We are about to be re-equipped under LAND 4000 a new IFV (more than likely German Boxers). Our air force is superior to theirs in numbers and capability.   We have excellent AEW&C aircraft and tankers, which allows us to attack their homeland more easily.   They have a small number of Su27 style fighters.  They have an even smaller number of F-5 fighters.    We have over 75 F/A-18As and Bs fighters.  We have about 36 F-18F&G Strike aircraft.  Soon we will have F-35 JSFs. Even if they were to attack the Top End, what would they capture?  Darwin?  A small country town.   A few resource sites and a very small population base.   We can destroy most of what they capture on the day they capture it.  Indonesia is a close match to our defence forces.   It's superiority is based on numbers and numbers prove little apart from your ability to govern your own fractious nation, Cods.   ::) The indon army, navy & air-force provide nothing more a target rich environment.  They are a country we could bomb into the fkken stone-age without too much effort. And we have always been capable of bringing them to their knees They are capable of killing women and children, not going up against a vastly superior war machine like ours. It is only our moral weakness that makes them the viscous pricks they are.

Today, perhaps.  In 1960, no way.  In 1975, no way.   

Today, however we would be going to war with a democracy, BigOl64 and we both have McDonalds operating in our cities - it doesn't look good for either side.   Remember, to win a war you need the support of your people and Australia has wasted a lot of that good will in going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

We would also lose out on Bali - Australia's tropical playground.   That would not be popular with the Bogans in Sydney and Melbourne (and the rest of Oz).

We get most of what we need from the present government in Jakarta.   They have stopped the boats, they have stopped the Terrorists and stopped the drug trade.  While it would be good if they stopped their antics in West New Guinea, its not going to happen because we won't be doing it without our "great and powerful friends" across the Pacific.    ::)

red baron wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 3:48pm:

Where was the United bloody Nations in all of this? As usual this toothless tiger wasn't seen off Nobby's The U.N. don't mind getting involved in having their hand out to nations to give them money and open their borders but when it comes to confrontation you won't see the U.N. anywhere

The UN is what it's member states make it.   It has never been successful at "confrontation".  That is not it's job and I am unsure why you assume it is.    ::)