Housing report says migration may need to be cut to preserve quality of life
Grattan Institute says population policy needed that will set ‘appropriate’ level of migration

One of Australia’s most respected thinktanks has weighed into the population growth debate, saying the federal government needs to develop an explicit population policy that defines the “appropriate” level of migration, and it may need to reduce the migrant intake to improve wellbeing.

The Grattan Institute says it is wading into the debate cautiously and it has deliberately not identified an optimum level of migration.

But it says the Turnbull government needs to take seriously the degree to which major cities, particularly Sydney and Melbourne, are struggling to cope with high population growth.


It says if state governments continue to fail to increase the supply of housing and infrastructure necessary to keep pace with rapid population growth, then the federal government may have to reduce the migrant intake so the quality of life of residents in New South Wales and Victoria – and other states – does not get worse.
The Grattan Institute’s recommendation can be found in a new research report on housing affordability, Re-imagining the Australian Dream, which was released on Sunday evening.

The 177-page report contains 13 policy recommendations the institute says will improve housing affordability in Australia

It comes two weeks after the former prime minister Tony Abbott reignited debate about Australia’s population growth by calling for the permanent migration intake to be slashed by 80,000 places a year, from 190,000 to 110,000.

Abbott had seized on comments from the home affairs minister, Peter Dutton, who told 2GB Radio in mid-February that it was a “perfectly legitimate argument” that Australia’s cities were “overcrowded”, including “gridlocked traffic in the mornings”, and that the government would review the migration intake if it was in the national interest.

Abbott used Dutton’s comments as a springboard to say that, despite concerns about housing affordability, “no one on the frontbench of government or ­opposition had been prepared to raise the one big contributing factor that is wholly and solely within the federal government’s control”.

But Abbott’s senior Coalition colleagues criticised his foray, including past and present immigration ministers, the acting prime minister and the trade minister.

Dutton clarified that his comment in mid-February “wasn’t a departure from what I’ve said previously” and that the Turnbull government “has got the settings right”.

John Daley from the Grattan Institute told Guardian Australia he was very conscious of the politics surrounding population growth and he did not want to be seen to be calling for the migrant intake to be cut.

He said his priority was housing affordability, the causes of high house prices and Australians’ living standards.

He said federal and state governments had numerous policy levers available to them to make houses more affordable, including limiting negative gearing, slashing the capital gains discount from 50% to 25%, changing the age pension assets test to include the value of a home above a certain threshold (such as $500,000), extending state land taxes to owner occupied housing, and setting housing targets at a state level and making sure local governments meet them.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/mar/04/housing-report-says-migration-may-need-to-be-cut-to-preserve-quality-of-life

I would like to see a migration cut. Give me a chance to get a better job. And no, I would not want to move out to farms to work as a farm hand.

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 11:38pm:

I would like to see a migration cut. Give me a chance to get a better job. And no, I would not want to move out to farms to work as a farm hand.

Either that or we increase productivity or both.

This topic amuses me all the time as the lefties always mouse trap themselves with their rabid ideology.

Just about everything I like about Australia is linked to the low population. Hard to put a value on, but it is real. I think the Chinese would agree.

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:21pm:

Just about everything I like about Australia is linked to the low population. Hard to put a value on, but it is real. I think the Chinese would agree.

For its land area Australia 50 million would be a low population.

There are other factors but for sure we have a good capacity for growth.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 2:21pm: Just about everything I like about Australia is linked to the low population. Hard to put a value on, but it is real. I think the Chinese would agree. For its land area Australia 50 million would be a low population. There are other factors but for sure we have a good capacity for growth.

If all that land was usable other than to graze one cow per acre.... which it's not.

As many times before - I think the issues are with our immigration mix rather than numbers. 

Politicians are playing the divide and conquer game and are not looking to the long term best benefit of this nation as a whole, and are preferring to remain stuck in the Third World Banana Republic mode and cementing that by removing more and more rights and opportunities from the majority of the people, through industrial relations bullying and chopping away at basic pay and conditions, so as to lead us to a classical Third World nation with the privileged few at the top and the rest tenants in their own jobs and homes and glad to receive a rental on the laird's property in return for servitude at his whim.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:17am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:38pm: I would like to see a migration cut. Give me a chance to get a better job. And no, I would not want to move out to farms to work as a farm hand. Either that or we increase productivity or both. This topic amuses me all the time as the lefties always mouse trap themselves with their rabid ideology.

How so?

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 4:57pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:17am: UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:38pm: I would like to see a migration cut. Give me a chance to get a better job. And no, I would not want to move out to farms to work as a farm hand. Either that or we increase productivity or both. This topic amuses me all the time as the lefties always mouse trap themselves with their rabid ideology. How so?

Lefties like letting everyone one in the country then complain about house prices ... there are many more they are an endless source of Hypocrisy.

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

The 'elephant in the room' is paranoia about being accused of racism.

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient.

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:16pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient.

It's OK to say that. But still no solution I see.

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:18pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:16pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient. It's OK to say that. But still no solution I see.

Do you live ib sydney?  Do you have any idea how quickly the livability of the place is deteriorating?

People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it.

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it.

Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded.

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:22pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:18pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:16pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient. It's OK to say that. But still no solution I see. Do you live ib sydney?  Do you have any idea how quickly the livability of the place is deteriorating?

x2

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:34pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:22pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:18pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:16pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient. It's OK to say that. But still no solution I see. Do you live ib sydney?  Do you have any idea how quickly the livability of the place is deteriorating? x2

I reckon in the last 6 to 8 years it's gone into a death spiral.

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:31pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded.

Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country.

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country.

Family,  jobs, fiends etc etc. My area is nicknamed 'The Bubble' and the price tag keeps the hoards out but we can feel the encroachment.

Oh cool, 4 Corners next Monday is on population.

Seriously,  everyone in Sydney is talking about this now.

Piss off we're full.

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:42pm:

I reckon in the last 6 to 8 years it's gone into a death spiral.

Gay Mardi Gras filthing up the streets, peasants holding million dollar weddings in the park, Mussos making up 9% of the prison population, Slopes and Abos just behind them, Redfun boutique coffee shops during the day a war zone at night, ghettoes to the south west (farsends of 'em!), Slime Mehajer acting up, Lebo Neck, Gladys at the helm in Macca Street wrecking the joint after Blackbaird,
expansion banging up against mountain ranges to the North and West and to the ocean to the East, leaving the Sydney-Canberra Corridor becoming the refuge of many lesser types, crime out of control, shooting in the neighbourhoods, turf wars between drug gangs...

Just a normal day.....

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:22pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:18pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:16pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient. It's OK to say that. But still no solution I see. Do you live ib sydney?  Do you have any idea how quickly the livability of the place is deteriorating?

I live in Sydney. Yes it's big and busy and getting busier. I didn't say I liked it. But unless the ageing population problem can be solved your stuck with it unless you are prepared to accept declining living standards.

So far, all options to ameliorate the problems have been panned. So unless a solution is found then it's tough titties.

Simply reducing population growth has its own set of problems which are not very palatable either. Swings and roundabouts.

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Family,  jobs, fiends etc etc. My area is nicknamed 'The Bubble' and the price tag keeps the hoards out but we can feel the encroachment.

Its pretty laid back up here in the Northern Beaches.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=northern+beaches+sydney&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU746AU746&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjorY_gvdfZAhXGa7wKHclEDBMQiR4ImQI&biw=1280&bih=590

The main reason people are attracted to Sydney is the big salaries but yes I am not a big fan of the Eastern Suburbs its pretty crowded and expensive.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:02pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Family,  jobs, fiends etc etc. My area is nicknamed 'The Bubble' and the price tag keeps the hoards out but we can feel the encroachment. Its pretty laid back up here in the Northern Beaches. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=northern+beaches+sydney&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU746AU746&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjorY_gvdfZAhXGa7wKHclEDBMQiR4ImQI&biw=1280&bih=590 The main reason people are attracted to Sydney is the big salaries but yes I am not a big fan of the Eastern Suburbs its pretty crowded and expensive.

If I was starting out now no way I'd be in the East but I got on the merry-go-round ages ago.

It's actual surprisingly laid back here when the summer crowds piss off.

My main concern is greater sydney which I still have the travel through. 

Have you also noticed things have ratcheted up in the last 6 years?

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country.

Yes a tiny 1/5 of the country's population pretty much the population of New Zealand

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:39pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:32pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:02pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Family,  jobs, fiends etc etc. My area is nicknamed 'The Bubble' and the price tag keeps the hoards out but we can feel the encroachment. Its pretty laid back up here in the Northern Beaches. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=northern+beaches+sydney&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU746AU746&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjorY_gvdfZAhXGa7wKHclEDBMQiR4ImQI&biw=1280&bih=590 The main reason people are attracted to Sydney is the big salaries but yes I am not a big fan of the Eastern Suburbs its pretty crowded and expensive. If I was starting out now no way I'd be in the East but I got on the merry-go-round ages ago. It's actual surprisingly laid back here when the summer crowds piss off. My main concern is greater sydney which I still have the travel through.  Have you also noticed things have ratcheted up in the last 6 years?

I see why you were asking me about the Northern Beaches.
I grew up around beaches so when I moved to Sydney I was naturally attracted to them. Changes are happening up here Dee Why is always been known for flats but that is slowly moving north Collaroy on the main road is mostly flats now.
We are still a few decades away from seeing the craziness of the Eastern Suburbs.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:41pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Yes a tiny 1/5 of the country's population pretty much the population of New Zealand

All packed into a tiny corner of the country, whining about how crowded it is.

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 9:45pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:41pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Yes a tiny 1/5 of the country's population pretty much the population of New Zealand All packed into a tiny corner of the country, whining about how crowded it is.

Not me you need to redirect that comment to Gordon.
Not all parts of Sydney are crowded.

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

I live in Sydney. Yes it's big and busy and getting busier. I didn't say I liked it. But unless the ageing population problem can be solved your stuck with it unless you are prepared to accept declining living standards. So far, all options to ameliorate the problems have been panned. So unless a solution is found then it's tough titties. Simply reducing population growth has its own set of problems which are not very palatable either. Swings and roundabouts.

The answer is for Australia to stop playing Sugar Daddy with handing out an average of $4 billion each year in overseas charity.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:11am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:30pm: I live in Sydney. Yes it's big and busy and getting busier. I didn't say I liked it. But unless the ageing population problem can be solved your stuck with it unless you are prepared to accept declining living standards. So far, all options to ameliorate the problems have been panned. So unless a solution is found then it's tough titties. Simply reducing population growth has its own set of problems which are not very palatable either. Swings and roundabouts. The answer is for Australia to stop playing Sugar Daddy with handing out an average of $4 billion each year in overseas charity.

How does that help an ageing population problem.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 10:34pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 9:45pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:41pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Yes a tiny 1/5 of the country's population pretty much the population of New Zealand All packed into a tiny corner of the country, whining about how crowded it is. Not me you need to redirect that comment to Gordon. Not all parts of Sydney are crowded.

I'm pretty familiar with Nth Beaches, I lived in Roseville and Chatswood and worked in Brookvale for a bit. (Little Narra and South Mona used be my regular spots)

Where I live is surprisingly quiet for the East and this time of year until about November is my fav because all the posers disappear.

My fear of this rampant population growth is not for my own area where the entry price is prohibitive and the local councils are not going to allow rampant development, but for how Sydney as a whole functions.

I still have to battle about the suburbs and it's becoming sheet and getting worse. I also think of the city that will be left for my kids. The high-rise schools, the over crowded hospitals etc etc etc.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

The 'elephant in the room' is paranoia about being accused of racism.

What's it got to do with racism, Herbie?

I'm curious.

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:22pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:18pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:16pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. If growing the population is the cure, it's one that will kill the patient. It's OK to say that. But still no solution I see. Do you live ib sydney?  Do you have any idea how quickly the livability of the place is deteriorating?

Indeed it is. Fck off, we're full.

crocodile wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:15am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:11am: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:30pm: I live in Sydney. Yes it's big and busy and getting busier. I didn't say I liked it. But unless the ageing population problem can be solved your stuck with it unless you are prepared to accept declining living standards. So far, all options to ameliorate the problems have been panned. So unless a solution is found then it's tough titties. Simply reducing population growth has its own set of problems which are not very palatable either. Swings and roundabouts. The answer is for Australia to stop playing Sugar Daddy with handing out an average of $4 billion each year in overseas charity. How does that help an ageing population problem.

I think he suffers relevance deprivation just feels the need bleat out random BS.

To me its a binary question do you want big or small immigration..... if big then the system needs to cope.

Gough's idea of RED schemes or similar needs to happen but when such schemes are tried they generally fail. We need to build other cities to take the pressure off Syd/Melb/Bris...... to be honest not sure how.

Quote:

Gough's idea of RED schemes or similar needs to happen but when such schemes are tried they generally fail. We need to build other cities to take the pressure off Syd/Melb/Bris...... to be honest not sure how.

The cities will build themselves, if people actually want to live there. You do know we already have more than 3 cities in this country, right?



RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 10:34pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 9:45pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:41pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Yes a tiny 1/5 of the country's population pretty much the population of New Zealand All packed into a tiny corner of the country, whining about how crowded it is. Not me you need to redirect that comment to Gordon. Not all parts of Sydney are crowded.

Compared to what? Beijing? And they are all overpriced. You can't escape that. Even Newcastle and Woolongong are feeling the influence.

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Quote: Gough's idea of RED schemes or similar needs to happen but when such schemes are tried they generally fail. We need to build other cities to take the pressure off Syd/Melb/Bris...... to be honest not sure how. The cities will build themselves, if people actually want to live there. You do know we already have more than 3 cities in this country, right? RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 10:34pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 9:45pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:41pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:48pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:27pm: People are still flocking to it, so it must have something going for it. Yes. People from Delhi find it less crowded. Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country. Yes a tiny 1/5 of the country's population pretty much the population of New Zealand All packed into a tiny corner of the country, whining about how crowded it is. Not me you need to redirect that comment to Gordon. Not all parts of Sydney are crowded. Compared to what? Beijing? And they are all overpriced. You can't escape that. Even Newcastle and Woolongong are feeling the influence.

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

We can just get older as Croc points out to the point where retirement age might be 100  and the old out number everyone else ?

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Why are you still there? Sydney is only a tiny part of the country.

So is the mainspring a tiny part of a watch.

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.


Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

Only 'yellow' people breed the best in 'cities'.
Hence the word 'Citi-Zen'.

So build your cities for the Yellow people to breed.
Hence why Sydney's most dominant race is 'yellow'.

Melbourne might not be populated as much by Yellow people.
But Melbournians are 'ruled' by the Yellow 'Culture' and like slaves, must adhere to the way of Sport (a yellow invention) with absolute devotion.  ;D

Real Australians don't live in Cities.
;D

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

Raise the retirement age to 75.

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.[/quote]

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75.

Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such.

In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such.

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75.

So far all measures put forward have been panned inclusive of raising the retirement age. Don't want to support corporate tax cuts and raise productivity. don't want to raise the retirement age. Don't want compulsory euthanasia.

Suck it up fellas.

crocodile wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:11am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:35pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75. So far all measures put forward have been panned inclusive of raising the retirement age. Don't want to support corporate tax cuts and raise productivity. don't want to raise the retirement age. Don't want compulsory euthanasia. Suck it up fellas.

We could bring back Costello's baby bonus and get all the bogans in SW Sydney spitting  out kids and buy new Big Screen TV's :-)

Yes its a tricky one to solve. I am amazed at how little people seem to know about retirement.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !
[/quote]

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:28am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:35pm: The 'elephant in the room' is paranoia about being accused of racism. What's it got to do with racism, Herbie? I'm curious.

Exactly. It has nothing to do with racism, but the luvvies will bellow 'Racism!' anyway.

Personally, I am a racist. I believe racial types have a habit of cleaving unto themselves to the effect that ghettoes are formed where anti-social criminality develops and festers like a can or worms.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:23am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:11am: UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:35pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75. So far all measures put forward have been panned inclusive of raising the retirement age. Don't want to support corporate tax cuts and raise productivity. don't want to raise the retirement age. Don't want compulsory euthanasia. Suck it up fellas. We could bring back Costello's baby bonus and get all the bogans in SW Sydney spitting  out kids and buy new Big Screen TV's :-) Yes its a tricky one to solve. I am amazed at how little people seem to know about retirement.

Even that has its own issues. It is still growing the poulation. Whether it grows by migration or bonking is of little consequence in the long run. It is an intractable problem that won't go away. If people want stable or lower population growth including a reduction in migration the they will have to give ground on either raising productivity, raising the retiring age or accepting lower living standards. If none of these options are palatable then STFU.

I've seen my suburb go from residential quarter acre blocks to rows and rows of two storey cramped mini-ghettoes.

I'm going to put a new SPA policy on housing affordability to the next meeting. Something like this:

The SPA has a policy of making housing in large cities more affordable by removing some of the government restrictions that are pushing up prices.

For cities with more than 1 million people, all 'community-based' limits to building heights shall be removed within 4km of the CBD, and within 500m of any train station that is within 8km of the CBD. Add 1km to the 4 and 8 for every additional million people.

Outside of this 8km+ zone, new housing that it not to standard on certain quality of life or running cost (ie, not safety) measures shall be permitted, provided that the house and land package is worth less than double the value of the land, and that the property is then encumbered with obligations to inform all potential tenants and buyers that it is substandard, and what the implications are.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am:

I've seen my suburb go from residential quarter acre blocks to rows and rows of two storey cramped mini-ghettoes.

When I was born, there were 50,000 people in this town. Today, it is around 90,000 people. The mining boom really helped send people up this way. I did notice that a lot of interstate migrants were from NSW and Victoria. New estates are opening up and have opened up to accommodate new people. Our roads are congested, though not of the Brisbane standard of congested.

Rockhampton has gone from some regional semi-rural town, to a regional centre. Our shopping centres have combined into mega shopping centres. We have enough people in our town to be noticed internationally. We in Rockhampton HAVE been noted for affecting international trade whenever a flood takes place.

Yet, we would see another 20,000 people in town and quite happily be able to fit them in to town no worries.

That's good to hear, UnSub, but Sydney and Rockhampton are chalk-and-cheese when it comes to compressing an average of 1000 migrants each week coming into the Sydney basin. Our premier Bob Carr once begged Canberra to slow migration because Sydney's infrastructure was stretched to capacity.

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:43am: I've seen my suburb go from residential quarter acre blocks to rows and rows of two storey cramped mini-ghettoes. When I was born, there were 50,000 people in this town. Today, it is around 90,000 people. The mining boom really helped send people up this way. I did notice that a lot of interstate migrants were from NSW and Victoria. New estates are opening up and have opened up to accommodate new people. Our roads are congested, though not of the Brisbane standard of congested. Rockhampton has gone from some regional semi-rural town, to a regional centre. Our shopping centres have combined into mega shopping centres. We have enough people in our town to be noticed internationally. We in Rockhampton HAVE been noted for affecting international trade whenever a flood takes place. Yet, we would see another 20,000 people in town and quite happily be able to fit them in to town no worries.

20 000 that is 20 weeks growth in Sydney, its good to see I think we need to build up regional centres with something more than just mining which will go through boom and bust. 

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:49pm:

20 000 that is 20 weeks growth in Sydney, its good to see I think we need to build up regional centres with something more than just mining which will go through boom and bust.

20,000 is 20 years growth around here. I can't imagine 1000 people per week moving into this town. 20,000 a year seems excessive, and yet Sydney manages to house 50,000 a year?

I think Australia needs a cut in migration numbers. We can bring in the ones that are already approved. Then we can cut the numbers after that.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW. So in other words you have nothing to offer ? FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity. You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.[/quote]

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:35pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75. Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such. In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such.

Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:44am: UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:35pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75. Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such. In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such. Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

Not if a decline in population growth diminishes production.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:44am: UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:35pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75. Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such. In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such. Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

How so many of these would not qualify for welfare and you are demonstrating your lack of understanding of superannuation and retirement.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:44am: UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:35pm: crocodile wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:29pm: Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up. Raise the retirement age to 75. Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such. In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such. Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

Yeah and theres not enough jobs now

Spot

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:43am: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW. So in other words you have nothing to offer ? FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity. You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you ! I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good. One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .[/quote]

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 8:18am: freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:43am: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW. So in other words you have nothing to offer ? FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity. You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you ! I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good. One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises. That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket. Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack. At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?[/quote]

No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on.
The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape :-)

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

All Sydney needs now will be the aircraft just missing the roofs on final approach and the laundry on the balconies... few running open sewers out the back and everyone's feeling at home.  Vertical slums of the future, whole floors turned over to the drugs trades, security doors on every flat, mesh on the verandahs to control suicides, and major disasters in the offing with fires and earthquakes.

I wonder if the time will come when Robert Heinlein's 'Star Troopers' concept, that all newcomers must do either military or civil service to gain citizenship, will come into play.

I recall that a lady doctor in Cooma (not Coma, but close) was of Polish heritage and her parents worked the Snowies Scheme (my uncle was a copper on that scheme, too, way back - those coppers who served there hold a regular reunion)... seems they turned out to be good citizens (not the coppers, the New Australians), albeit untinted and with a work ethic.....

Plenty on here lately have been talking about major infrastructure projects similar to the Snowies Scheme, with Setanta's back yard creek diverted inland to feed the ravening cotton farms destroying the Darling etc... put in your time, earn your way, prove your mettle, and you can become a Citizen.  Soak up unemployment, learn a trade, learn how to use machinery*, put dole money to good use by replacing it with wages earned and thus tax paid...

The western ranges of the GDR are excellent and would be far more useful as productive crop land with more water - and without the salinity problems of the Murray, which being low down is more vulnerable.

Where's Tony, the Infrastructure PM, when you need him?  Stomping up a storm in the Northern Beaches again?

*Even those who fail the citizenship test will be able to return home with a marketable skill...

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:08am:

All Sydney needs now will be the aircraft just missing the roofs on final approach and the laundry on the balconies... few running open sewers out the back and everyone's feeling at home.  Vertical slums of the future, whole floors turned over to the drugs trades, security doors on every flat, mesh on the verandahs to control suicides, and major disasters in the offing with fires and earthquakes. I wonder if the time will come when Robert Heinlein's 'Star Troopers' concept, that all newcomers must do either military or civil service to gain citizenship, will come into play. I recall that a lady doctor in Cooma (not Coma, but close) was of Polish heritage and her parents worked the Snowies Scheme (my uncle was a copper on that scheme, too, way back - those coppers who served there hold a regular reunion)... seems they turned out to be good citizens (not the coppers, the New Australians), albeit untinted and with a work ethic..... Plenty on here lately have been talking about major infrastructure projects similar to the Snowies Scheme, with Setanta's back yard creek diverted inland to feed the ravening cotton farms destroying the Darling etc... put in your time, earn your way, prove your mettle, and you can become a Citizen.  Soak up unemployment, learn a trade, learn how to use machinery*, put dole money to good use by replacing it with wages earned and thus tax paid... The western ranges of the GDR are excellent and would be far more useful as productive crop land with more water - and without the salinity problems of the Murray, which being low down is more vulnerable. Where's Tony, the Infrastructure PM, when you need him?  Stomping up a storm in the Northern Beaches again? *Even those who fail the citizenship test will be able to return home with a marketable skill...

Not sure which bit addresses the topic, it appears these new arrivals don't want to stomp around in the mud smelling cow $hit ...... the want nice jobs in the city sipping Lattes.

The other issue is our Agro business is one of the most efficient in the world i.e. not much of a population absorber .... look at the other thread on Cairns it appears even in the regions we have the work shy crowd afraid of a little mud.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 11:04pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 8:18am: freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:43am: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW. So in other words you have nothing to offer ? FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity. You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you ! I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good. One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises. That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket. Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack. At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse . What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on.
The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape :-)

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon. [/quote]

Can you explain your trick for reading a skyline of cranes to know that I was wrong? Is it like reading tea leaves?

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

I think it is the attitude problem we have as Australians. We have the sprinters. We have the 4-minute milers. We have the marathoners. But the problem is we have too many people happy to get participation ribbons, rather than going for gold, silver, or bronze. The "dig stuff up and send it to China" attitude will work well for us to stop us from starving for a while. But then, we will have to change our tactics soon, when China starts buying from the more competitive.

We Australians like to big note our own importance to the world. Yet we are only 25 million strong. That is barely a blip on the world radar. Unless we start getting those people to work smarter, instead of just harder. Unless we can get people to stop being so complacent, we could end up in a lot of trouble when the situation changes, and not to our benefit. Innovation. The embracing of new technology. Send our own satellites into orbit. Whatever it is, we need to find ways of getting the world to invest in Australia, so that we can benefit in the long term.

It is not the fat kid we need to be worried about running. We should be concerned about the lazy runners.

Within 50 years Australia will be a visibly Asian country with a predominance of Indians and Chinese.

freediver wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 7:27am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:00am: freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 11:04pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 8:18am: freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:43am: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW. So in other words you have nothing to offer ? FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity. You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you ! I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good. One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises. That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket. Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack. At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse . What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF? No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on. The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape :-) Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

Can you explain your trick for reading a skyline of cranes to know that I was wrong? Is it like reading tea leaves?[/quote]

You are more or less always wrong I can not help you with that.

If you wish to carry on like a twit the crane count is actually used by many but real data something your ignorant about is collected by researchers who come up with real answer instead of childish retorts so put your dummy back in and try using your brain :-)

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

Within 50 years Australia will be a visibly Asian country with a predominance of Indians and Chinese.

Again with the racism.
FYI many of the Chinese here are 5-6 generation, as are some of the Afghan's so what kind of White Australia policy do you want ?
Do you want the police (many of who are Chinese ancestry) to round them all up and deport them ?

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:00am: Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon. I think it is the attitude problem we have as Australians. We have the sprinters. We have the 4-minute milers. We have the marathoners. But the problem is we have too many people happy to get participation ribbons, rather than going for gold, silver, or bronze. The "dig stuff up and send it to China" attitude will work well for us to stop us from starving for a while. But then, we will have to change our tactics soon, when China starts buying from the more competitive. We Australians like to big note our own importance to the world. Yet we are only 25 million strong. That is barely a blip on the world radar. Unless we start getting those people to work smarter, instead of just harder. Unless we can get people to stop being so complacent, we could end up in a lot of trouble when the situation changes, and not to our benefit. Innovation. The embracing of new technology. Send our own satellites into orbit. Whatever it is, we need to find ways of getting the world to invest in Australia, so that we can benefit in the long term. It is not the fat kid we need to be worried about running. We should be concerned about the lazy runners.

For someone young coming from a working class background you show a lot of insight.

My parents were WWII immigrants coming from Europe ..... they were tougher stock then the locals and yes my father worked on the Snowy. He set up his own building company that numbered about 80 employees at one stage, I saw all sorts of cultures working part time for my father's company.... Italians, Greeks, Fins, Polish, Estonians, Serbians etc ..... they all worked  harder then the pommies / Skips !

I try not to look at building sights as when I do I think I am watching it in slow motion. The pace I see would not be tolerated by my father back then.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:43pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 7:27am: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:00am: freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 11:04pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 8:18am: freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:43am: RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 6:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:33pm: Quote: Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ? I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them. [quote]I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view. If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW. So in other words you have nothing to offer ? FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity. You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you ! I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good. One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are  a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises. That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket. Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack. At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse . What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF? No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on. The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape :-) Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon. Can you explain your trick for reading a skyline of cranes to know that I was wrong? Is it like reading tea leaves?

You are more or less always wrong I can not help you with that.

If you wish to carry on like a twit the crane count is actually used by many but real data something your ignorant about is collected by researchers who come up with real answer instead of childish retorts so put your dummy back in and try using your brain :-)[/quote]

Tea leaves are also used by many RSF. Just for a different purpose. Can you explain how you use them?

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:05pm:

Piss off we're full.

This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it.

Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest.

Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics.

Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers.

And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

Within 50 years Australia will be a visibly Asian country with a predominance of Indians and Chinese.

By 2068, I shall probably be dead. Being 89 at the time. But I would be sure I could handle a society where 40% of Australians are non-white.

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:53pm:

For someone young coming from a working class background you show a lot of insight.

Well... thanks. But at 39 years of age, I would hardly be considered the type of person who is young. My 65-year-old uncle pointed the "nearly 40" fact, the other year. And my socioeconomic background should be of no relevance to how smart I become. Realistically, by now, I should be a much better orator and writer of history, culture, and politics than I have been in the last 5 years.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:05pm: Piss off we're full. This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it. Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest. Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics. Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers. And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

Good post. You've got your finger on the pulse.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:05pm: Piss off we're full. This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it. Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest. Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics. Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers. And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

Firstly, I'm not right wing and my comment is based in the actual fact that Sydney is busting at the seams.

Any time there is a rational attempt of discussion based on infrastructure, sustainability and quality of life on ABC radio about population, lefty wankstains text in with stuff like, ohh ah xenophobes, ohh ahh racists.

And yes I agree that all sides of politics are pro-immigration for different reasons.

Liberal property developers love it.
Labor unionist love the jobs created
Greens want more brown people

Meanwhile the livability of our cities is going down the shitter, but oh it's nice compare to Delhi and Beijing

4 Corners is on population on Monday. Watch it.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/big-australia:-are-we-ready/9522444

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 1:16pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 9:39am: Gordon wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:05pm: Piss off we're full. This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it. Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest. Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics. Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers. And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon. Firstly, I'm not right wing and my comment is based in the actual fact that Sydney is busting at the seams. Any time there is a rational attempt of discussion based on infrastructure, sustainability and quality of life on ABC radio about population, lefty wankstains text in with stuff like, ohh ah xenophobes, ohh ahh racists. And yes I agree that all sides of politics are pro-immigration for different reasons. Liberal property developers love it. Labor unionist love the jobs created Greens want more brown people Meanwhile the livability of our cities is going down the shitter, but oh it's nice compare to Delhi and Beijing 4 Corners is on population on Monday. Watch it. http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/big-australia:-are-we-ready/9522444

Good rebuttal, Gordon.