link.

The American disease.

Inadequate personalities looking for fame and notoriety at any cost.

Cue Baronvonrort: "the solution to America's gun problem is more guns".

5,4,3,2,1 ...

If only a teacher or other student had a gun, this could have been minimised if not prevented.  :-/

Dr Mengele wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:19am:

If only a teacher or other student had a gun, this could have been minimised if not prevented.  :-/

Or if the shooter wasn't allowed to get a gun?

Dr Mengele wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:19am:

If only a teacher or other student had a gun, this could have been minimised if not prevented.  :

The good doctor beat Baron to it.

Gun problem?

Solution = more guns.

Brilliant!

A gun bought legally or on the black market, is still a gun.

Banning guns simply wouldn't work, and that's because millions of guns wouldn't be handed in to the authorities.

The answer, if there is an answer, is psychiatric profiling of anyone who others regard as a loose cannon, a loner-with-attitude, an anti-social misfit.

One of the students said this shooter was someone you kept away from in case something you said would upset him. The authorities should have been notified about how this fellow was viewed by his peers, and then a psychiatrist should have been sent in to conduct a series of interviews with him. 

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:34am:

A gun bought legally or on the black market, is still a gun. Banning guns simply wouldn't work, and that's because millions of guns wouldn't be handed in to the authorities. The answer, if there is an answer, is psychiatric profiling of anyone who others regard as a loose cannon, a loner-with-attitude, an anti-social misfit. One of the students said this shooter was someone you kept away from in case something you said would upset him. The authorities should have been notified about how this fellow was viewed by his peers, and then a psychiatrist should have been sent in to conduct a series of interviews with him.

stupid idea. Loners are killers. anti-social people arent killers. If you profiled every loner, or anti-social person and anyone with behavioural difficulties, you'd interview 30% of the population and STILL miss these people.

Banning guns IS the solution for reasons that are beyond obvious - expect for the small-penis-compensators who need guns to feel bigger than they are.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:34am:

Banning guns simply wouldn't work, and that's because millions of guns wouldn't be handed in to the authorities.

Nailed it. Even in Australia there's still squillions of unregistered guns that weren't handed in after the 1996 false flag.

Dr Mengele wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:54am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 9:34am: Banning guns simply wouldn't work, and that's because millions of guns wouldn't be handed in to the authorities. Nailed it. Even in Australia there's still squillions of unregistered guns that weren't handed in after the 1996 false flag.

There are some, but not like the states where there are TWO GUNS FOR EVERY PERSON and people are allowed to carry them openly. That's why we dont have school shootings like this.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:48am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 9:34am: A gun bought legally or on the black market, is still a gun. Banning guns simply wouldn't work, and that's because millions of guns wouldn't be handed in to the authorities. The answer, if there is an answer, is psychiatric profiling of anyone who others regard as a loose cannon, a loner-with-attitude, an anti-social misfit. One of the students said this shooter was someone you kept away from in case something you said would upset him. The authorities should have been notified about how this fellow was viewed by his peers, and then a psychiatrist should have been sent in to conduct a series of interviews with him.  stupid idea. Loners are killers. anti-social people arent killers. If you profiled every loner, or anti-social person and anyone with behavioural difficulties, you'd interview 30% of the population and STILL miss these people. Banning guns IS the solution for reasons that are beyond obvious - expect for the small-penis-compensators who need guns to feel bigger than they are.

Agreed.

Good on Herb for his input, but I just can't see that working.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:48am:

stupid idea. Loners are killers. anti-social people arent killers. If you profiled every loner, or anti-social person and anyone with behavioural difficulties, you'd interview 30% of the population and STILL miss these people. Banning guns IS the solution for reasons that are beyond obvious - expect for the small-penis-compensators who need guns to feel bigger than they are.

Those who have an obsession with guns will always be able to buy them ~ especially in the US.

Ban the guns and the only people who will still be in possession of guns will be the very ones for whom the banning was targetted ... criminals and nutjobs.

Personally, I see these shootings as collateral damage in a society of over 300 million people whose movie entertainment is composed mostly of various forms of violence.

It's the culture that needs to change, not the gun laws.

Quickly identifying socio-pathic and psychopathic youths would be a move in the right direction towards ensuring better security for America's schools.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:28am:

Those who have an obsession with guns will always be able to buy them ~ especially in the US. Ban the guns and the only people who will still be in possession of guns will be the very ones for whom the banning was targetted ... criminals and nutjobs. Personally, I see these shootings as collateral damage in a society of over 300 million people whose movie entertainment is composed mostly of various forms of violence. It's the culture that needs to change, not the gun laws. Quickly identifying socio-pathic and psychopathic youths would be a move in the right direction towards ensuring better security for America's schools.

I asked you about this before, but I don't think you responded.

American movies are available all over the world, and they are much, much easier to get now than they were in the past.

Why aren't these movies influencing people in other countries?

Dr Mengele wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:54am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 9:34am: Banning guns simply wouldn't work, and that's because millions of guns wouldn't be handed in to the authorities. Nailed it. Even in Australia there's still squillions of unregistered guns that weren't handed in after the 1996 false flag.

If I'd had a gun at the time, no way I would have handed it in. Years later I needed a gun to defend myself against a thugs who was trying to break into my home while knowing I was in here.

What was that old and trite definition of insanity?

>:(

i blame a lot of this on the leftard lunacy of the way boys are brought up nowadays ( i assume most killers are male).

boys need a function and a purpose and they need to be made to bear responsibility as this gives their life meaning.

when all a young boy is given is lectures about male "rape culture" and  male "oppression" and when he is given the social cultural hypnosis that life is just about your rights and pleasuring yourself and you dont have to take any responsibility for yourself then he becomes TRULY LOST.

men need a "mission in life", they need a goal and they are competitive and they are masculine and they are full of hormones and they need to be actively working towards a meaningful goal.

and young boys dont get any of that.
no mentoring by good strong masculine role models.

if they try to apporach a female they will certainly be awkard and clumsy and this is easily construed as sexual harrasment so they are scared of women.

now you have the recipe for a deep and bitter resentment .
a resentment about the bloody fact of your existence in the first place.
a resentment about the fact that life is harsh and unfair and unjust (which is the christian message that you need to take up your cross and carry on with nobility).

so the angry confused aetheist nihilistic male youth doesnt take up his cross and move forward with nobility , he takes up his gun and moves forward with resentment.
and its no good punishing the evil, he moves forward and punishes the innocent first.
they get the first bullets.

thats what happens when you have a corrupt social and cultural narrative run by air headed leftie intellectuals who dont know what they are doing

Quasiintellectual.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:45am:

Quasiintellectual.

i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:04am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend

one day you will finally have sex with a woman and realise just how stupid you sound most of the time.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:04am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend

So you respond to my claim of you being a quasiintellectual by posting more quasiintellectual stuff

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:04am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend one day you will finally have sex with a woman and realise just how stupid you sound most of the time.

the wolf does not concern itself with the bleating of the sheep

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:20am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:11am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:04am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend one day you will finally have sex with a woman and realise just how stupid you sound most of the time. the wolf does not concern itself with the bleating of the sheep

You aren't a wolf.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:15am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:04am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend So you respond to my claim of you being a quasiintellectual by posting more quasiintellectual stuff

well its quasiintellectual to call it quasiintellectual.

its a hypothesis that cant be tested but seems apparently true.

what would freud have to say about the badly mothered boy and the nature of resentment.
anything he said would also be quasintellectual as well.

its a problem that will need fixing at the level of personal psychology.
a scientist may say that the answer is for all students to wear a bullet proof vest.
i suppose thats a more scientific answer but it pushes the problem back one step and solves nothing

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:26am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:15am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:04am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend So you respond to my claim of you being a quasiintellectual by posting more quasiintellectual stuff well its quasiintellectual to call it quasiintellectual. its a hypothesis that cant be tested but seems apparently true. what would freud have to say about the badly mothered boy and the nature of resentment. anything he said would also be quasintellectual as well. its a problem that will need fixing at the level of personal psychology. a scientist may say that the answer is for all students to wear a bullet proof vest. i suppose thats a more scientific answer but it pushes the problem back one step and solves nothing

Lol I know you are but what am I?

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

American movies are available all over the world, and they are much, much easier to get now than they were in the past. Why aren't these movies influencing people in other countries?

Grievances. It all centres around grievances that have not been listened to or resolved.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:04am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend

Excellent commentary.

Bojack and Longey have reduced this thread to a childish 'biffo' session with those whose opinions they disagree with. That is just so bloody lame.

FYI

This is the 18th school shooting in the US this year.

Yes, you read right.

We're only half way through the second month of the year, and already there have been 18 school shootings.

Since 2013, the US has averaged one school shooting a week.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 1:45pm:

Bojack and Longey have reduced this thread to a childish 'biffo' session with those whose opinions they disagree with. That is just so bloody lame.

Really, I would agree if I could understand aquas opinion. But as usual he dresses it up in so much piffle to make himself look smarter than he is.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 1:49pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:45pm: Bojack and Longey have reduced this thread to a childish 'biffo' session with those whose opinions they disagree with. That is just so bloody lame. Really, I would agree if I could understand aquas opinion. But as usual he dresses it up in so much piffle to make himself look smarter than he is.

It's your lack of education that has you floundering to make sense of Aqua's excellent editorials.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:42am:

i blame a lot of this on the leftard lunacy of the way boys are brought up nowadays ( i assume most killers are male). boys need a function and a purpose and they need to be made to bear responsibility as this gives their life meaning. when all a young boy is given is lectures about male "rape culture" and  male "oppression" and when he is given the social cultural hypnosis that life is just about your rights and pleasuring yourself and you dont have to take any responsibility for yourself then he becomes TRULY LOST.

Oh god please not again. It's bad enough we'll be forced into the same tired pro and against gun regulations talking point but do you have to bring your warped smacking views into it?

Why does everything have to be an excuse to justify and excuse the shame you feel about your own masculinity?

It's getting tired mate, just please do us all a favour and seek some really help from a licensed medical professional or at least stay in the MRA friendly forums where you can all convince each other's that you're Alphas and fight over who would make Trump cum the fastest in a blowjob contest...

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:49pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:45pm: Bojack and Longey have reduced this thread to a childish 'biffo' session with those whose opinions they disagree with. That is just so bloody lame. Really, I would agree if I could understand aquas opinion. But as usual he dresses it up in so much piffle to make himself look smarter than he is. It's your lack of education that has you floundering to make sense of Aqua's excellent editorials.

Lack of education? What do you mean. I'd probably be close to the most educated on here.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:04pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 2:01pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:49pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:45pm: Bojack and Longey have reduced this thread to a childish 'biffo' session with those whose opinions they disagree with. That is just so bloody lame. Really, I would agree if I could understand aquas opinion. But as usual he dresses it up in so much piffle to make himself look smarter than he is. It's your lack of education that has you floundering to make sense of Aqua's excellent editorials. Lack of education? What do you mean. I'd probably be close to the most educated on here.

Stand by for "real life education - not your leftist University nonsense".

5,4,3,2,1 ...

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 2:04pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 2:01pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:49pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 1:45pm: Bojack and Longey have reduced this thread to a childish 'biffo' session with those whose opinions they disagree with. That is just so bloody lame. Really, I would agree if I could understand aquas opinion. But as usual he dresses it up in so much piffle to make himself look smarter than he is. It's your lack of education that has you floundering to make sense of Aqua's excellent editorials. Lack of education? What do you mean. I'd probably be close to the most educated on here. Stand by for "real life education - not your leftist University nonsense". 5,4,3,2,1 ...

Yerp. Waiting for a response about how reading Daily Mail and Pickering Post is worth 3 degrees.

It's obvious schools are the common denominator in school shootings. Ban schools.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:26am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:15am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:04am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend So you respond to my claim of you being a quasiintellectual by posting more quasiintellectual stuff well its quasiintellectual to call it quasiintellectual. its a hypothesis that cant be tested but seems apparently true. what would freud have to say about the badly mothered boy and the nature of resentment. anything he said would also be quasintellectual as well. its a problem that will need fixing at the level of personal psychology. a scientist may say that the answer is for all students to wear a bullet proof vest. i suppose thats a more scientific answer but it pushes the problem back one step and solves nothing

Actually, Freud would cite this as a problem with the father. It's classic penis-envy: killers firing at their peers in a neurotic attempt to establish their masculinity.

But I'm curious. When this deep resentment and bitterness is carried out by a Muslim, why is it always posed as a religious problem rather than a crisis of masculinity?

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

It's obvious schools are the common denominator in school shootings. Ban schools.

Ban school children.

Only Adult Education from now on.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:23pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 2:19pm: It's obvious schools are the common denominator in school shootings. Ban schools. Ban school children. Only Adult Education from now on.

It would still be your first education.

How many is too many for Americans.

Wu Ting Feng wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 5:29pm:

How many is too many for Americans.

As horrific as school shootings are, the actual numbers of people killed this way is a tiny % of GS fatalities.

America is finished.

It can't even protect its own school kids.

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 5:36pm:

Wu Ting Feng wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:29pm: How many is too many for Americans. As horrific as school shootings are, the actual numbers of people killed this way is a tiny % of GS fatalities.

Making the problem far far far worse

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 5:36pm:

Wu Ting Feng wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:29pm: How many is too many for Americans. As horrific as school shootings are, the actual numbers of people killed this way is a tiny % of GS fatalities.

That's true........& as far as how people are killed in America, death by gunshot is also a very low percentage, but don't believe me, look it up.

As the slaughter of over 20 children in Newtown didn't cause Americans to relinquish their Constitutional Freedom & Liberty, this too will evaporate within a short passage of time, & life will go on ....... ;)

As I said before, during, & since then.....the only answer is harsher punishment for criminals that use firearms in the commission of a crime (as was the case here), better diagnosis of mental conditions, & more education.

Oh, & last but definitely not least......Ban "Gun Free Zones" (Schools & Universities...etc) which seem to be magnets for crimes like these....

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 5:36pm:

Wu Ting Feng wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:29pm: How many is too many for Americans. As horrific as school shootings are, the actual numbers of people killed this way is a tiny % of GS fatalities.

It really is a pretty morbid answer to the question of how important gun are to them.  It past the point where logic has long since been lost in this debate, but this is just another disappointing reminder.

Panther wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:14pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:36pm: Wu Ting Feng wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:29pm: How many is too many for Americans. As horrific as school shootings are, the actual numbers of people killed this way is a tiny % of GS fatalities. That's true........& as far as how people are killed in America, death by gunshot is also a very low percentage, but don't believe me, look it up. As the slaughter of over 20 children in Newtown didn't cause Americans to relinquish their Constitutional Freedom & Liberty, this too will evaporate within a short passage of time, & life will go on ....... ;) As I said before, during, & since then.....the only answer is harsher punishment for criminals that use firearms in the commission of a crime (as was the case here), better diagnosis of mental conditions, & more education. Oh, & last but definately not least......Ban Gun Free Zones (Schools & Universities...etc) which seem to be magnets for crimes like these....

There is no good solution to the problem the US and their gun loving nature, but as evidenced by the end of your post, there are certainly bad ones.

But the more logical of the measures you've suggested, that being background checks etc, the gun nuts hate that.  You're only really suggesting solutions that have already been defeated.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 6:24pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 6:14pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:36pm: Wu Ting Feng wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:29pm: How many is too many for Americans. As horrific as school shootings are, the actual numbers of people killed this way is a tiny % of GS fatalities. That's true........& as far as how people are killed in America, death by gunshot is also a very low percentage, but don't believe me, look it up. As the slaughter of over 20 children in Newtown didn't cause Americans to relinquish their Constitutional Freedom & Liberty, this too will evaporate within a short passage of time, & life will go on ....... ;) As I said before, during, & since then.....the only answer is harsher punishment for criminals that use firearms in the commission of a crime (as was the case here), better diagnosis of mental conditions, & more education. Oh, & last but definitely not least......Ban Gun Free Zones (Schools & Universities...etc) which seem to be magnets for crimes like these.... There is no good solution to the problem the US and their gun loving nature, but as evidenced by the end of your post, there are certainly bad ones. But the more logical of the measures you've suggested, that being background checks etc, the gun nuts hate that.  You're only really suggesting solutions that have already been defeated.

Background checks are the law now in America, & are strictly enforced. They wouldn't have helped in this latest unfortunate tragedy.

Harsher punishment for criminals that use firearms in the commission of a crime has not been defeated, matter-in-factly they are getting harsher, but I suggest they get way harsher........ 25 years to life for the first crime committed using a firearm......25 years the minimum. Second offense.....Life without the option of parole.

These would be mandatory sentences.....Judges would have no options/discretions in sentencing. 

Also even if you don't use a firearm, but your accomplice does committing the crime with you, or you with them, it's a mandatory 15 years without parole if it's your first criminal offense, harsher if it's your second, & Life without parole....3 strikes you're out.......if it's your third offense.

As far as banning "Gun Free Zones", do the research, the greater majority of these heinous mass killings take place in "Gun Free Zones" (places where firearms are not permitted by law) simply because the deranged cowards know they won't be met with deadly force once & when they go on their spree. Gun Free Zones are a murder's "Safety Zone".... The don't protect people, they make them defenseless targets......like ducks in a pond.

Dr Mengele wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:19am:

If only a teacher or other student had a gun, this could have been minimised if not prevented.  :-/

If only a teacher or other student had a gun


Yes more people could have died. wonderful.

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

It's obvious schools are the common denominator in school shootings. Ban schools.

That common denominator would mean something if you could point to a school shooting with no gun ?

That was Horse boys problem too, a paragraph full of tripe and forgot about the impact of the guns completely.

Simple equation is no gun = no shooting. You don't need a page of BS amateur psycho babble.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:03pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 2:19pm: It's obvious schools are the common denominator in school shootings. Ban schools. That common denominator would mean something if you could point to a school shooting with no gun ?

But guns will always be the method of killing, if the criminal, who couldn't give a rats ass about the law, decides that he will use a gun in the commission of his crime......

Why not ban criminals? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

Aren't they the true "common denominator"?  http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot.

What's all the hysteria about?

Panther wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:11pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:03pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 2:19pm: It's obvious schools are the common denominator in school shootings. Ban schools. That common denominator would mean something if you could point to a school shooting with no gun ? But guns will always be the method of killing, if the criminal, who couldn't give a rats ass about the law, decides that he will use a gun in the commission of his crime...... Why not ban criminals? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif Aren't they the true "common denominator"?  http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

No.

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:14pm:

I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about?

Not even once ? Must have been very lucky.

Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:16pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:14pm: I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about? Not even once ? Must have been very lucky. Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school.

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html

Gordon wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:20pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:16pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:14pm: I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about? Not even once ? Must have been very lucky. Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school. http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html

That would be good protection against the police, not much else though.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:35pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:20pm: Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:16pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:14pm: I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about? Not even once ? Must have been very lucky. Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school. http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html That would be good protection against the police, not much else though.

Our neighborhood was so safe, even at that age we used to wander around by ourselves. Shame.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:35pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:20pm: Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:16pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:14pm: I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about? Not even once ? Must have been very lucky. Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school. http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html That would be good protection against the police, not much else though.

Funny you never hear anyone getting murdered with a "cowards punch" in the USA, maybe they lack those kind of cowards, prevalent in our society, but lacking in their society.....their cowards use firearms.

Panther wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:35pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:20pm: Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:16pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:14pm: I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about? Not even once ? Must have been very lucky. Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school. http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html That would be good protection against the police, not much else though. Funny you never hear anyone getting murdered with a "cowards punch" in the USA, maybe they lack those kind of cowards, prevalent in our society, but lacking in their society.....their cowards use firearms.

Over the last 15 years the cowards punch has killed about 6 people a year on average, The gun incidents can kill over twice that number in one incident and they occur at a hugely increased rate.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm: Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:35pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:20pm: Dnarever wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:16pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:14pm: I went to kindy in the US for a year and I was never shot. What's all the hysteria about? Not even once ? Must have been very lucky. Hear they are marketing bullet proof nappies for pre school. http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html That would be good protection against the police, not much else though. Funny you never hear anyone getting murdered with a "cowards punch" in the USA, maybe they lack those kind of cowards, prevalent in our society, but lacking in their society.....their cowards use firearms. Over the last 15 years the cowards punch has killed about 6 people a year on average, The gun incidents can kill over twice that number in one incident and they occur at a hugely increased rate.

So, your point....I thought all life is precious, but those taken with a "Cowards Punch" is meaningless because they are lower in numbers.....You obsessed with numbers now??

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 5:45pm:

America is finished. It can't even protect its own school kids.

It's collateral damage, Bobby, like fatalities on our roads. These school rampages hardly register a blip on the US death toll statistics. It's only because of the nature of the school killings that it gets any media attention at all.

Roughly 40,000 innocent Americans die each year on their roads, but we hear nothing about this.

40,000.

And then an average of 3,500 deaths by drowning in the US each year.

3,500.

Accidental electrocutions ... on average 6,359 deaths per year in the US.

And so on and so forth.

It puts these school shootings into perspective.

Very small potatoes indeed.

link

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:23pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 5:45pm: America is finished. It can't even protect its own school kids. It's collateral damage, Bobby, like fatalities on our roads. These school rampages hardly register a blip on the US death toll statistics. It's only because of the nature of the school killings that it gets any media attention at all. Roughly 40,000 innocent Americans die each year on their roads, but we hear nothing about this. 40,000. And then an average of 3,500 deaths by drowning in the US each year. 3,500. Accidental electrocutions ... on average 6,359 deaths per year in the US. And so on and so forth. It puts these school shootings into perspective. Very small potatoes indeed. link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUsWxOZolVQ

Some people just snap and with such easy access to firearms this will never stop....Giving guns to teachers or other students is ridiculous....Anyone can snap and people want more guns in schools....America can only blame itself for arming the deranged, deluded and insane....It is all down hill from here???

:( :( :(

Dr Mengele wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:19am:

If only a teacher or other student had a gun, this could have been minimised if not prevented.  :-/

Food for thought, Doctor. If children took guns to class, there would be a lot less shootings.

How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun?

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun?

It's America. EVERYONE has access to guns. They either have their own or live in a house that has plenty. But at least Trump has changed the law so that MENTAL PATIENTS can also get guns.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:07pm: How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun? It's America. EVERYONE has access to guns. They either have their own or live in a house that has plenty. But at least Trump has changed the law so that MENTAL PATIENTS can also get guns.

Wasn't Trump trying to change the law to
stop lunatics from getting guns?

At least he said he was.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun?

Walked into a Kmart store and bought one.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:07pm: How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun? Walked into a Kmart store and bought one.

It's not that easy.

US, deadliest modern mass shootings

1 2017 Vegas, 58 killed
2 2016 Pulse 49
3 2007 VA Tech 32
4 2012 Sandy Hook 26
4 2017 Sutherland Springs 26
6 1991 Killeen 23
7 1984 San Ysidro 21
8 2018 Stoneman 17
9 1966 UT Austin 16
10 2015 San Bernardino 14

3 occurred in the past 5 mos

45 American days into the year and this is the 30th mass shooting.

Sweet zombie Jesus. This transcends a gun issue. It's a cultural issue.

America is never going to enact gun control. No matter how many innocent children die.

https://mystery756.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/nra-uncle-sam-youre-safe1.jpg

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:48pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:44pm: Bobby. wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:07pm: How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun? Walked into a Kmart store and bought one. It's not that easy.

Yeah it kinda is. Sure if you walk into a store and want to buy a gun a back ground check is conducted in store purchases.

But gun buyers don't have to go through a background check when they make a purchase at a gun show.

You won't find them in cities like New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C., where gun laws are far more restrictive.

Most Americans live somewhere near a gun show.

Senator Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat from California, and President Obama tried to eliminate the gun show loophole in 2013, with a bill that would have expanded background checks. But Congress didn't pass it.

More American civilians have been killed since 1968 then all their troops in every war since 1776.

Next time America has a moment of silence in support of their troops they should include those that walk down Main Street.

There has been a staggering amount of sales of firearms after each mass shooting. Like America's favourite pastime, religion, the gun lobby's have used their cash to work the system and get special rights. Now they are both above laws that apply to everyone else making money in America.

Through "Religious Freedom" exemptions, the religious industry can ignore civil rights, employment, healthcare laws...

However when it comes to American idolatry of a consumer product even Jesus can't compete with an AR-15.

A gun is the only cause of death that has civil rights, or immunity from lawsuits, or Congressional gag orders.

The CDC or NIH are banned from observing that, while guns don't kill people, they certainly seem to help.

Even doctors under the Affordable Care Act are prohibited from noticing how well guns work on the many men, women and children they are tested on.

The fact is, Congress is ok with a Columbine, or a Sandy Hook. Just as long as it doesn't effect the gun industry' bottom line. Because if those in Congress think god is wrathful, they have never crossed the NRA.

Every mass shooting is like a free Super Bowl ad for their merchandise. The sales of firearms goes up every time a white person goes on a shooting rampage or every time a black guy goes on to win the White House.

The gun industry's sales campaign has been a triumph!

"Our freedom to immerse ourselves in the paranoia of others coming to get us shall NOT be infringed."

Amusing since statistics show that those coming to get Americans are Americans. Americans are 129,000 times more likely to die by gun violence, then by foreign terrorists.

They are more likely to be killed by an American with a gun then a foreigner with a grudge.

The American Constitution is like the nation's first consumer report, it only recommends buying two things, slaves and guns.

Two sacred, constitutional ownership rights. And one has already been taken away.

a year ago Trump rescinded an Obama rule that didn't allow retards to purchase firearms. this retard purchased his one year ago ...

AiA wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 2:16am:

a year ago Trump rescinded an Obama rule that didn't allow retards to purchase firearms. this retard purchased his one year ago ...

Yeah, this is why Trump was very stupid in his tweet to blame the people around this person for not identifying him as having mental issues, much like all of this supporters in the media and online have been doing.

Only Trump and they seem to have forgotten that Trump made it easier for these people to get guns because everything Obama did was bad and had to be undone.

It's high time Trump be held accountable for his actions, but it will some how be the Liberal elites fault.

Raven wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:28am:

45 American days into the year and this is the 30th mass shooting. Sweet zombie Jesus. This transcends a gun issue. It's a cultural issue.

Freedom carries with it certain risks, and these shootings are one of them.

40,000 deaths on the US roads each year ... ban cars?

Karnal wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:20pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:26am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:15am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:04am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:45am: Quasiintellectual. i get the feeling that the disenfranchisement of young men at the hands of the intellectual elite and the radical feminists, combined with the lack of good male role models at the hands of the male shaming, "me-too" media, combined with the inability of young men to approach young women without being shamed as potential  harrasers will lead to a deep deep bitterness and resnetment and thats coming out somewhere my friend So you respond to my claim of you being a quasiintellectual by posting more quasiintellectual stuff well its quasiintellectual to call it quasiintellectual. its a hypothesis that cant be tested but seems apparently true. what would freud have to say about the badly mothered boy and the nature of resentment. anything he said would also be quasintellectual as well. its a problem that will need fixing at the level of personal psychology. a scientist may say that the answer is for all students to wear a bullet proof vest. i suppose thats a more scientific answer but it pushes the problem back one step and solves nothing Actually, Freud would cite this as a problem with the father. It's classic penis-envy: killers firing at their peers in a neurotic attempt to establish their masculinity. But I'm curious. When this deep resentment and bitterness is carried out by a Muslim, why is it always posed as a religious problem rather than a crisis of masculinity?

i am in slight agreement.

there are studies that show that when young men feel they can climb the dominance hierachy, they are less prone to violence.
but when they are in a system where they see no prospect of advancing, they will be far more likely to kill each other.

there was a good study on chicago black gang culture.
often when there was a murder, both parties were armed and it was easy to plea bargain it down to self defence and a lot of guys got 2 years, out in one and when they got out, they now had swagger in the hood. they had "raised their status", in the way a white kid in NY might by going to uni and getting a nice car.  so they got babes and stuff as a result and it became a bizarre way to climb the dominance hierachy (which is what masculine energy is seeking to do).

But back to a comparison between a kid who supposedly snaps and shoots up a school and a kid who straps on a back pack and blows up girls at a concert.

i think they are coming from the same place.

a lot of it DOES have to do with the loss of the role of the father in raising young men to be integrated.

a man has a dark side, (jung called this the shadow).
a real man , whether he likes it or not is not a "nice guy".
he has "potential for great havoc".

and he needs to integrate this shadow, understand his own evil , so that he can function as a man.
failure to do so will see this come out.

in the past, this would have come out as a father belting his son because he had been humiliated at work. not a good idea.

but men in modern western society are being humiliated now just as much (if not more) and they have repressed this "potential" and are just pretending to be a nice harmless guy.

it wont work.

it will bubble to the surface as a deep resentment of their kids perhaps.
they may not hit their son but they might undermine him, ignore him, disengage from him,

i dont know what the relationship between this guy and his dad was or between an isis fighter and his dad was but i bet it was unhealthy.

and men cant have healthy relationships with their sons when they have been rendered harmless (effectively castrated) by the prevailing cultural hypnosis.

men disengage, its all too tough.
they sit on the couch like fat steve and console themselves with pizza and porn and their sons are lost. truly lost.

forget about the guns.
fix the father son relationship and elevate this to one of prime importance (because it is the bedrock of our culture and we have lost it ) 

Bobby. wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

How did a young nutcase get hold of a gun?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221


Quote:

Feb 28, 2017: President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun. The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database. Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database. President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns. Both the House and Senate last week passed the new bill, H.J. Res 40, revoking the Obama-era regulation. Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president. The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”

So you can identify who will be a shooter and ban them from getting a gun?

I dont think so.

Things change.

Who are the potential shooters on this site?

Probably everyone.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 7:12am:

i am in slight agreement. there are studies that show that when young men feel they can climb the dominance hierachy, they are less prone to violence. but when they are in a system where they see no prospect of advancing, they will be far more likely to kill each other. there was a good study on chicago black gang culture. often when there was a murder, both parties were armed and it was easy to plea bargain it down to self defence and a lot of guys got 2 years, out in one and when they got out, they now had swagger in the hood. they had "raised their status", in the way a white kid in NY might by going to uni and getting a nice car.  so they got babes and stuff as a result and it became a bizarre way to climb the dominance hierachy (which is what masculine energy is seeking to do). But back to a comparison between a kid who supposedly snaps and shoots up a school and a kid who straps on a back pack and blows up girls at a concert. i think they are coming from the same place. a lot of it DOES have to do with the loss of the role of the father in raising young men to be integrated. a man has a dark side, (jung called this the shadow). a real man , whether he likes it or not is not a "nice guy". he has "potential for great havoc". and he needs to integrate this shadow, understand his own evil , so that he can function as a man. failure to do so will see this come out. in the past, this would have come out as a father belting his son because he had been humiliated at work. not a good idea. but men in modern western society are being humiliated now just as much (if not more) and they have repressed this "potential" and are just pretending to be a nice harmless guy. it wont work. it will bubble to the surface as a deep resentment of their kids perhaps. they may not hit their sone but they might undermine him, ignore him, disengage from him, i dont know what the relationship between this guy and his dad was or between an isis fighter and his dad was but i bet it was unhealthy. and men cant have healthy relationships with their sons when they have been rendered harmless (effectively castrated) by the prevailing cultural hypnosis. men disengage, its all too tough. they sit on the couch like fat steve and console themselves with pizza and porn and their sons are lost. truly lost. forget about the guns. fix the father son relationship and elevate this to one of prime importance (because it is the bedrock of our culture and we have lost it)

You put far too much stock in masculinity.  One would be forgiven to think your world view is fueled by a lack of satisfaction in your own masculinity.

Your whole premise is built off the foundation that humanity will never be able to change or grow, despite the fact that we have a clear history of doing so.  It may have slowed down recently but there is still time. 

If this is as good as it gets no amount of "knuckledragging" psychology will help prevent humanity imploging and speeding towards extinction.  I don't want that outcome but I honestly don't know about you.  You seem to want to return to a feudal society, one where you must have think you'll be one of the top dog?  Good luck with that.

I'm not foolish enough to think we don't need to embrace some of the notions you go on and on and on about based off your own personal issues because if it's happening to you, if you're insecure enough with your own standing on the alpha pecking order that you see that as the root cause for literally every issue you contribute to, there must be others like you.

But your solutions always, without fail, find that the fault lays at someone else's feet.  Never the young "disenfranchised" male.  It's the liberals, it's the feminists, it's those who want equality, it's never the white male who has to face the reality that in an equal world, we're not superior by default.  We actually have to work at it.  But it's much easier to blame everyone and everything else.  And those that fail, that's someone else's fault, or they're defective.  Whatever it takes to shield the rest of us yeah?

At some point you need to take responsibility because if you're always blaming someone else, you'll never reclaim your masculinity, you'll never be a real man.

This is the same problem with Trump, you project this ideal that he is true and forceful man, taking risks etc, but he has never taken responsibility, ever.  That is unless he's trying to claim credit for someone else's work.

Is he truly taking risks if he has nothing to lose?  No.  But I digress.

Here we have you posting about concepts you claim to understand but seem to have issues communicating them as shown by your very poor use of grammar and punctuation etc.  You really are an intellectual lightweight who overcompensates by trying to sound smarter than you are, while you're blaming everyone else for the problems in the world, problems caused by men having their manliness taken away at no fault of their own.

I sympathise with you and I'm sorry that someone emasculated you in your youth but you will never find peace if you don't ever deal with that.  I know I may have joking said you should seek some licensed medical help, but I'm being serious this time.  There is nothing weak about seeking help, it will make you a better man which will help you and those around you.

https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/mental-health-where-to-get-help

Good luck.

miketrees wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 7:28am:

So you can identify who will be a shooter and ban them from getting a gun? I dont think so. Things change. Who are the potential shooters on this site? Probably everyone.

I think this is the point behind most people wanting to limit guns altogether.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 7:31am:

[quote author=aquascoot link=1518649846/73#73 date=1518729120]i am in slight agreement. there are studies that show that when young men feel they can climb the dominance hierachy, they are less prone to violence. but when they are in a system where they see no prospect of advancing, they will be far more likely to kill each other. there was a good study on chicago black gang culture. often when there was a murder, both parties were armed and it was easy to plea bargain it down to self defence and a lot of guys got 2 years, out in one and when they got out, they now had swagger in the hood. they had "raised their status", in the way a white kid in NY might by going to uni and getting a nice car.  so they got babes and stuff as a result and it became a bizarre way to climb the dominance hierachy (which is what masculine energy is seeking to do). But back to a comparison between a kid who supposedly snaps and shoots up a school and a kid who straps on a back pack and blows up girls at a concert. i think they are coming from the same place. a lot of it DOES have to do with the loss of the role of the father in raising young men to be integrated. a man has a dark side, (jung called this the shadow). a real man , whether he likes it or not is not a "nice guy". he has "potential for great havoc". and he needs to integrate this shadow, understand his own evil , so that he can function as a man. failure to do so will see this come out. in the past, this would have come out as a father belting his son because he had been humiliated at work. not a good idea. but men in modern western society are being humiliated now just as much (if not more) and they have repressed this "potential" and are just pretending to be a nice harmless guy. it wont work. it will bubble to the surface as a deep resentment of their kids perhaps. they may not hit their sone but they might undermine him, ignore him, disengage from him, i dont know what the relationship between this guy and his dad was or between an isis fighter and his dad was but i bet it was unhealthy. and men cant have healthy relationships with their sons when they have been rendered harmless (effectively castrated) by the prevailing cultural hypnosis. men disengage, its all too tough. they sit on the couch like fat steve and console themselves with pizza and porn and their sons are lost. truly lost. forget about the guns. fix the father son relationship and elevate this to one of prime importance (because it is the bedrock of our culture and we have lost it)

You put far too much stock in masculinity.  One would be forgiven to think your world view is fueled by a lack of satisfaction in your own masculinity.

Your whole premise is built off the foundation that humanity will never be able to change or grow, despite the fact that we have a clear history of doing so.  It may have slowed down recently but there is still time. 

If this is as good as it gets no amount of "knuckledragging" psychology will help prevent humanity imploging and speeding towards extinction.  I don't want that outcome but I honestly don't know about you.  You seem to want to return to a feudal society, one where you must have think you'll be one of the top dog?  Good luck with that.

I'm not foolish enough to think we don't need to embrace some of the notions you go on and on and on about based off your own personal issues because if it's happening to you, if you're insecure enough with your own standing on the alpha pecking order that you see that as the root cause for literally every issue you contribute to, there must be others like you.

But your solutions always, without fail, find that the fault lays at someone else's feet.  Never the young "disenfranchised" male.  It's the liberals, it's the feminists, it's those who want equality, it's never the white male who has to face the reality that in an equal world, we're not superior by default.  We actually have to work at it.  But it's much easier to blame everyone and everything else.  And those that fail, that's someone else's fault, or they're defective.  Whatever it takes to shield the rest of us yeah?

At some point you need to take responsibility because if you're always blaming someone else, you'll never reclaim your masculinity, you'll never be a real man.

This is the same problem with Trump, you project this ideal that he is true and forceful man, taking risks etc, but he has never taken responsibility, ever.  That is unless he's trying to claim credit for someone else's work.

Is he truly taking risks if he has nothing to lose?  No.  But I digress.

Here we have you posting about concepts you claim to understand but seem to have issues communicating them as shown by your very poor use of grammar and punctuation etc.  You really are an intellectual lightweight who overcompensates by trying to sound smarter than you are, while you're blaming everyone else for the problems in the world, problems caused by men having their manliness taken away at no fault of their own.



freud would call your post an example of a "reaction formation"  ;)

<double post>

aquascoot wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

freud would call your post an example of a "reaction formation"  ;)

Perhaps, but this isn't about me :)

Is there anything you've posted about on here that you don't devolve into the same argument of masculinity?

Honestly think about it.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 7:59am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 7:37am: freud would call your post an example of a "reaction formation"  ;) Perhaps, but this isn't about me :) Is there anything you've posted about on here that you don't devolve into the same argument of masculinity? Honestly think about it. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

absolutely. same argument to every question.

Have there been any certifiable retards who have been doing these shootings?

No.

The Obama initiative was a showpiece fraud in as much as no legislation will ever prevent psychotically anti-social types from obtaining a gun. Not in America. No way.

All of these shootings had gun-toting kids walking onto the school property and into the classrooms before opening fire. Where were the security guards? Why no checkpoints at the entrance to the schools?

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 8:09am:

Have there been any certifiable retards who have been doing these shootings? No. The Obama initiative was a showpiece fraud in as much as no legislation will ever prevent psychotically anti-social types from obtaining a gun. Not in America. No way. All of these shootings had gun-toting kids walking onto the school property and into the classrooms before opening fire. Where were the security guards? Why no checkpoints at the entrance to the schools?

So if the mental health and background checks don't work, remove the guns?

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 8:03am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 7:59am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 7:37am: freud would call your post an example of a "reaction formation"  ;) Perhaps, but this isn't about me :) Is there anything you've posted about on here that you don't devolve into the same argument of masculinity? Honestly think about it. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. absolutely. same argument to every question.

would someone who posts 100 % trump hateful gossip possibly be also falling prey to the same issue ? ;)

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

So if the mental health and background checks don't work, remove the guns?

I've already answered the question of banning guns. Millions of guns would simply be moved to hiding places by millions of Americans. It's like Canute trying to beat back the tide. The horse has long since bolted on banning guns.

And so, we are left with the need to identify the oddballs and the creepy kids who have an obsession with guns.

"THE teen accused of the Florida school shooting was a member of a white supremacist group and participated in its paramilitary drills before the massacre."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI

"Group leader Jordan Jereb told the Associated Press that Nikolas Cruz, 19, was part of his organisation Republic of Florida, which seeks to create a white ethno-state within the US that is divorced from the modern world."

Dear oh dear.

"A spokesperson for the white supremacist group Republic of Florida (ROF) told the Anti-Defamation League on Thursday, February 15, that Nikolas Cruz, the man charged with the previous day’s deadly shooting spree at a Parkland, Florida, high school, was associated with his group."

"The ROF is known to have young, white, male members and to promote violence, such as gun ownership and knife fighting. The group has also been linked with the far-right League of the South."

More right-wing, white supremacist terrorism.

Tsk tsk   ::)

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 8:37am:

"THE teen accused of the Florida school shooting was a member of a white supremacist group and participated in its paramilitary drills before the massacre." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI

why would a young guy end up in a white supremicist group.

no good male role models would be my guess.

i bet he had a putz shamed , emasculated father who was dominated by a ball breaking wife.
and he felt disgust at this and over reacted by joining a white supremicist group.

the lefts attack on the traditional family with dad at the head,( keeping the sons in line) coming home to roost  ;)

The prick who did this needs to be crucified in public.

Very good, Blooby. Deep and insightful as always.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:29am:

"Group leader Jordan Jereb told the Associated Press that Nikolas Cruz, 19, was part of his organisation Republic of Florida, which seeks to create a white ethno-state within the US that is divorced from the modern world." Dear oh dear. "A spokesperson for the white supremacist group Republic of Florida (ROF) told the Anti-Defamation League on Thursday, February 15, that Nikolas Cruz, the man charged with the previous day’s deadly shooting spree at a Parkland, Florida, high school, was associated with his group." "The ROF is known to have young, white, male members and to promote violence, such as gun ownership and knife fighting. The group has also been linked with the far-right League of the South." More right-wing, white supremacist terrorism. Tsk tsk   ::)

Let the excuses begin ...

aquascoot wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 8:37am: "THE teen accused of the Florida school shooting was a member of a white supremacist group and participated in its paramilitary drills before the massacre." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI why would a young guy end up in a white supremicist group. no good male role models would be my guess. i bet he had a putz shamed , emasculated father who was dominated by a ball breaking wife. and he felt disgust at this and over reacted by joining a white supremicist group. the lefts attack on the traditional family with dad at the head,( keeping the sons in line) coming home to roost

I'm sure there are some forum members here who could tell you.

So god damn odd how Goebbels, Mechanic and Panther's trolling have been largely silent on this issue.

Marla wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:59am:

So god damn odd how Goebbels, Mechanic and Panther's trolling have been largely silent on this issue.

Indeed.

Does their silence indicate that they support white supremacist terrorism?

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 8:09am:

Have there been any certifiable retards who have been doing these shootings? No. The Obama initiative was a showpiece fraud in as much as no legislation will ever prevent psychotically anti-social types from obtaining a gun. Not in America. No way. All of these shootings had gun-toting kids walking onto the school property and into the classrooms before opening fire. Where were the security guards? Why no checkpoints at the entrance to the schools?

Yes. Martin Bryant was one such certified retard.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:03am:

Does their silence indicate that they support white supremacist terrorism?

They post their filth from white terrorist sites so you tell me.

Marla wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:06am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 10:03am: Does their silence indicate that they support white supremacist terrorism? They post their filth from white terrorist sites so you tell me.

That is true.

Marla wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:06am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 10:03am: Does their silence indicate that they support white supremacist terrorism? They post their filth from white terrorist sites so you tell me.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518667208/2#2
                                   ;)

Superintendent Runcie did not mince words: “Now is the time for the country to have a real conversation on sensible gun controls in this country,” he said.

Now?

Since 2013 the US has averaged one school shooting a week.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 8:37am:

"THE teen accused of the Florida school shooting was a member of a white supremacist group and participated in its paramilitary drills before the massacre."

I didn't know he cherry-picked black kids for killing 17 of them.

Back to the Drawing Board, Bucko!

Bobby. wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:32am:

The prick who did this needs to be crucified in public.

He should be transported to Norway and helicoptered onto the island of Utøya after which Anders Breivik should be released onto the island with a lethal weapon to hunt him down.

He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 12:10pm:

Superintendent Runcie did not mince words: “Now is the time for the country to have a real conversation on sensible gun controls in this country,” he said. Now? Since 2013 the US has averaged one school shooting a week.

All rhetorical nonsense, political posturing, and virtue signalling, of course. The nutters will always have access to guns.

Marla wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:59am:

So god damn odd how Goebbels, Mechanic and Panther's trolling have been largely silent on this issue.

Hold it right THERE, Colorado colleen!

How about you tell us if you'd be happy to turn in your guns at the local police station?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:04pm:

He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot.

The average time a person is on Death Row in the US is 9 years before they finally get the chop.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 12:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 8:37am: "THE teen accused of the Florida school shooting was a member of a white supremacist group and participated in its paramilitary drills before the massacre." I didn't know he cherry-picked black kids for killing 17 of them. Back to the Drawing Board, Bucko!

"THE teen accused of the Florida school shooting was a member of a white supremacist group and participated in its paramilitary drills before the massacre."

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 12:10pm: Superintendent Runcie did not mince words: “Now is the time for the country to have a real conversation on sensible gun controls in this country,” he said. Now? Since 2013 the US has averaged one school shooting a week. All rhetorical nonsense, political posturing, and virtue signalling, of course. The nutters will always have access to guns.

Exaclty.
All these people screaming for new legislation, begging for it in actual fact. Precisley what is supposed to happen. The plan is working.
Just what we need in the world hey...more laws.
Honest people will still do what honest people do, yet be affected by more laws....and the scum will do what they do and not care about any laws new or existing.

There are enough laws in place already to deal with problematic humans.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:12pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:04pm: He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot. The average time a person is on Death Row in the US is 9 years before they finally get the chop.

And the average time it takes to discover those who are innocent, is 11.3 years.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:17pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:12pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:04pm: He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot. The average time a person is on Death Row in the US is 9 years before they finally get the chop. And the average time it takes to discover those who are innocent, is 11.3 years.

Meh. poo happens. You win some, you lose some. I've followed a lot of cases of death row people and those who were executed, and in 99.9% of the cases these people were loose cannons on the streets of America ~ ruining lives by selling hard drugs to college kids and the like. Good riddance to them - guilty or not for a Front Page murder, they were killing people through the slow release of hard addictive drugs to the ignorant and the vulnerable.

I'm a great supporter of the death penalty for drug trafficking. 

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:17pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:12pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:04pm: He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot. The average time a person is on Death Row in the US is 9 years before they finally get the chop. And the average time it takes to discover those who are innocent, is 11.3 years. Meh. poo happens. You win some, you lose some. I've followed a lot of cases of death row people and those who were executed, and in 99.9% of the cases these people were loose cannons on the streets of America ~ ruining lives by selling hard drugs to college kids and the like. Good riddance to them - guilty or not for a Front Page murder, they were killing people through the slow release of hard addictive drugs to the ignorant and the vulnerable. I'm a great supporter of the death penalty for drug trafficking.

'Poo', being innocent people killed by the state.

Yes, it certainly happens.

"How many are sentenced to death in the United States for crimes they did not commit?

"A new study believes the figure is 1 in every 25—or 4.1 percent."

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:36pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:29pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:17pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:12pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:04pm: He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot. The average time a person is on Death Row in the US is 9 years before they finally get the chop. And the average time it takes to discover those who are innocent, is 11.3 years. Meh. poo happens. You win some, you lose some. I've followed a lot of cases of death row people and those who were executed, and in 99.9% of the cases these people were loose cannons on the streets of America ~ ruining lives by selling hard drugs to college kids and the like. Good riddance to them - guilty or not for a Front Page murder, they were killing people through the slow release of hard addictive drugs to the ignorant and the vulnerable. I'm a great supporter of the death penalty for drug trafficking.  'Poo', being innocent people killed by the state. Yes, it certainly happens. "How many are sentenced to death in the United States for crimes they did not commit? "A new study believes the figure is 1 in every 25—or 4.1 percent."

That's a lot better than I thought. 96% get the chop for being murderers while 4% get the chop for being drug-criminal arseholes from around the age of 14.

I have absolutely no difficulty with that whatsoever.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:57pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:36pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:29pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:17pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:12pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:04pm: He'll get the needle for sure.... what a total idiot. The average time a person is on Death Row in the US is 9 years before they finally get the chop. And the average time it takes to discover those who are innocent, is 11.3 years. Meh. poo happens. You win some, you lose some. I've followed a lot of cases of death row people and those who were executed, and in 99.9% of the cases these people were loose cannons on the streets of America ~ ruining lives by selling hard drugs to college kids and the like. Good riddance to them - guilty or not for a Front Page murder, they were killing people through the slow release of hard addictive drugs to the ignorant and the vulnerable. I'm a great supporter of the death penalty for drug trafficking.  'Poo', being innocent people killed by the state. Yes, it certainly happens. "How many are sentenced to death in the United States for crimes they did not commit? "A new study believes the figure is 1 in every 25—or 4.1 percent." That's a lot better than I thought. 96% get the chop for being murderers while 4% get the chop for being drug-criminal arseholes from around the age of 14. I have absolutely no difficulty with that whatsoever.

Yes folks, Herbie has no problem with innocent people being killed by the state.

::)

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:59pm:

Yes folks, Herbie has no problem with innocent people being killed by the state. ::)

They are not innocent. Just ask Duterte of the Philippines. And now, after several years of Duterte, the Filipino people still support him in his campaign to eradicate the drugs blight that has caused so much suffering among the people.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 2:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 1:59pm: Yes folks, Herbie has no problem with innocent people being killed by the state. ::) They are not innocent. Just ask Duterte of the Philippines. And now, after several years of Duterte, the Filipino people still support him in his campaign to eradicate the drugs blight that has caused so much suffering among the people.

The law says otherwise.

Many innocent people are sent to death row.

Unfortunately, many are executed too.

Crucify him.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

The law says otherwise. Many innocent people are sent to death row. Unfortunately, many are executed too.

The 'law' is not a biblical absolute, and I don't know of anyone whose opinion was asked by the Ruling Elite of what its tenets should be. The law represents the view of just a tiny fraction of the population, with no regard for what the vast majority of the populace would have on the books.

No death penalty for terrorists.
No death penalty for paedophiles who murder.
No death penalty for rapists who murder.
No death penalty for traitors who sell State secrets to our political enemies.

Etc.

Have a referendum on these and it would show a very definite disconnect between public opinion and what the elites have legislated for.

Unauthorised signings to Charters and Agreements by our politicians with the UN has virtually disenfranchised the Australian public from having a referendum on these things.

We need our own Brexit, but from the UN.
   

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 4:56pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 2:06pm: The law says otherwise. Many innocent people are sent to death row. Unfortunately, many are executed too. The 'law' is not a biblical absolute, and I don't know of anyone whose opinion was asked by the Ruling Elite of what its tenets should be. The law represents the view of just a tiny fraction of the population, with no regard for what the vast majority of the populace would have on the books. No death penalty for terrorists. No death penalty for paedophiles who murder. No death penalty for rapists who murder. No death penalty for traitors who sell State secrets to our political enemies. Etc. Have a referendum on these and it would show a very definite disconnect between public opinion and what the elites have legislated for. Unauthorised signings to Charters and Agreements by our politicians with the UN has virtually disenfranchised the Australian public from having a referendum on these things. We need our own Brexit, but from the UN.

Agreed.

There should be no death penalty, whatsoever.

Never, ever, under any circumstances.

The funny thing is, you criticise Muslim countries because of their use of the death penalty, yet you want our own country to reintroduce it.

Strange, Herbie. Very strange indeed.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:27pm:

Agreed. There should be no death penalty, whatsoever. Never, ever, under any circumstances.

Thank you for voting.

Now please be patient and let's wait for the other 24million Aussies to have their vote on the subject.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 5:27pm: Agreed. There should be no death penalty, whatsoever. Never, ever, under any circumstances. Thank you for voting. Now please be patient and let's wait for the other 24million Aussies to have their vote on the subject.

Their vote is irrelevant.

We have legislation in place to stop the death penalty being reintroduced.

An opinion poll of the Australian population isn't going to change that.

So, tell me Herbie: why do you condemn Muslim countries using the death penalty, but in the same breath think it's a good idea to have state-sanctioned, premeditated killing of prisoners here?

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 5:32pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 5:27pm: Agreed. There should be no death penalty, whatsoever. Never, ever, under any circumstances. Thank you for voting. Now please be patient and let's wait for the other 24million Aussies to have their vote on the subject. Their vote is irrelevant. We have legislation in place to stop the death penalty being reintroduced. An opinion poll of the Australian population isn't going to change that. So, tell me Herbie: why do you condemn Muslim countries using the death penalty, but in the same breath think it's a good idea to have state-sanctioned, premeditated killing of prisoners here?

You!

Taking the moral high ground!!!?

The one who promised to never post here again if Trump won!

You are a proven liar and as such your words mean nothing. Go Away!  >:( >:( >:(

I think the subject heading could have been used last year and then again next year.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 1:09pm:

Hold it right THERE, Colorado colleen! How about you tell us if you'd be happy to turn in your guns at the local police station?

Have they been used in any crime, asshole?

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/84982ebf166907440979929557ca2b39848d079c42f2dc41c5643bfaed2c4e4d.jpg

Worth revisiting

https://youtu.be/t88X1pYQu-I

UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:20am:

I think the subject heading could have been used last year and then again next year.

It could have been used last week ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTN0g4AAkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkH3mJnloO0

America is finished.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 5:32pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 5:27pm: Agreed. There should be no death penalty, whatsoever. Never, ever, under any circumstances. Thank you for voting. Now please be patient and let's wait for the other 24million Aussies to have their vote on the subject. Their vote is irrelevant. We have legislation in place to stop the death penalty being reintroduced. An opinion poll of the Australian population isn't going to change that. So, tell me Herbie: why do you condemn Muslim countries using the death penalty, but in the same breath think it's a good idea to have state-sanctioned, premeditated killing of prisoners here?

Herbert?

Too late Greggy,

they have the death penalty in Florida.

Maybe you can offer to be the hangman?

..



Colorado’s rural schools arming themselves against
danger, long response times



Source:      The Denver Post    
Quote:

Teachers and staff members in at least a dozen of Colorado’s most remote school districts are arming themselves instead of waiting for local law enforcement to rescue them in the face of a Columbine-style attack. Those districts have employees carry concealed weapons, train like law officers and then be the first line of security should a school or classroom be targeted by assault. Colorado law prohibits firearms in the classroom but does allow for security personnel to be armed. These smaller districts, fearing their vulnerability because of their far-flung locations, are training and reclassifying some teachers and staff as security personnel and overseeing the safe storage of their weapons. The districts say they do so because hiring a security guard can cost more than a teacher’s salary. They also are not relying on the local sheriff’s department for help, where it could take a deputy 60 minutes to get to the front door. “There’s a bunch of us out here in a kind of no-man’s land,” said Rick Mondt, superintendent for the Briggsdale School District in northeast Weld County. A bill sponsored by Colorado Senate Majority Leader Chris Holbert, a Parker Republican, will allow a county sheriff to provide a handgun-safety training course to any employee of any public school who also possesses a permit to carry a concealed handgun. Under Senate Bill 5, which had its first hearing Tuesday, county sheriffs would consult with school boards to develop a curriculum for the courses. The bill also says that someone employed by the school district and who carries a valid conceal-carry permit can carry a concealed handgun onto school grounds, if they have received permission from the local school board. Training courses for teachers and other staff members are minimal in some cases, Holbert said, adding that his bill will establish and bolster training standards for armed school security. “This is not a gun bill, but a training bill,” Holbert said. The bill’s hearing drew both pro-gun and anti-gun speakers before passing 3-2 along a party-line vote. The majority Republicans supported the measure, which now moves to the full Senate. Critics said the bill repeats the dangerous myth that more gun training will turn English teachers and custodians into experts at close-quarter combat. “I am going to be a kindergarten teacher and I don’t want to worry about a gun in my possession or one of my colleagues having a gun in their possession,” said Carly Dougherty, whose aunt was killed during the assault at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. But the bill’s proponents said having school staff members take gun training will discourage someone from targeting a classroom. “My office is always fielding phone calls from schools and teachers who want to know how they can make the next angry, young man rethink his next move,” said Dudley Brown, head of the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners. The districts with the policies say they are requiring the type of training routinely required of deputies and police officers. “People think we are just offering up guns for anybody on our staff to use, and that is not the case,” said Randy Underwood, a member of the Hanover School District school board in eastern El Paso County. Hanover, which boasts an enrollment of 270 students, is now hammering out its policy that security will be provided by staff members with a conceal-carry permit who undergo annual training that meets school insurability standards. Underwood voices the thoughts of rural school officials who say even the hint that some school personnel are willing to draw weapons to secure the safety of students will make a prospective attacker think twice before acting.

The best way of stopping bad men with guns, is good men with guns.

"Gun Free Zones" must be banned, because the greater majority of mass shootings take place in "Gun Free Zones" which attract the sort of deranged cowards that prefer not to have armed resistance when they commit their unspeakable crimes.

Ever wonder why mass shootings never happen at the gun range?



https://s9.postimg.org/g3jstpzfz/civildisobediance.jpg

..

Bobby. wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 7:11am:

America is finished.

it will be interesting to hear what Trump will say when he visits  the mums and dads who have lost their children...and the partners of the dead teachers.....

will he suggest everyone send their kids to school armed to the teeth.... :(

after all what other defence have they got.?...Trump being an advocate for guns .....makes any form of sympathy apologetic. >:( >:( >:(

cods wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 8:52am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 7:11am: America is finished. it will be interesting to hear what Trump will say when he visits  the mums and dads who have lost their children...and the partners of the dead teachers..... will he suggest everyone send their kids to school armed to the teeth.... :( after all what other defence have they got.?...Trump being an advocate for guns .....makes any form of sympathy apologetic. >:( >:( >:(

I think all schools will need armed guards.
How else can they stop the lunatics?

Bobby. wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 8:54am:

cods wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:52am: Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 7:11am: America is finished. it will be interesting to hear what Trump will say when he visits  the mums and dads who have lost their children...and the partners of the dead teachers..... will he suggest everyone send their kids to school armed to the teeth.... :( after all what other defence have they got.?...Trump being an advocate for guns .....makes any form of sympathy apologetic. >:( >:( >:( I think all schools will need armed guards. How else can they stop the lunatics?

    


Spot on Bobby......Spot on.....see my post above.

No magic wand will ever make over 300 million guns vaporize overnight, & no law will ever convince American Gun Owners to voluntarily disarm....or more critically, get criminals to give up their legal or illegal firearms.

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:54am: cods wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:52am: Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 7:11am: America is finished. it will be interesting to hear what Trump will say when he visits  the mums and dads who have lost their children...and the partners of the dead teachers..... will he suggest everyone send their kids to school armed to the teeth.... :( after all what other defence have they got.?...Trump being an advocate for guns .....makes any form of sympathy apologetic. >:( >:( >:( I think all schools will need armed guards. How else can they stop the lunatics? Source:      Name       Spot on Bobby......Spot on.....see my post above. No magic wand will ever make over 300 million guns vaporize overnight, & no law will ever convince American Gun Owners to voluntarily disarm....or more critically, get criminals to give up their legal or illegal firearms.

It will just be an extra school expense -
paying for armed guards.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:03am:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:02am: Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:54am: cods wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:52am: Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 7:11am: America is finished. it will be interesting to hear what Trump will say when he visits  the mums and dads who have lost their children...and the partners of the dead teachers..... will he suggest everyone send their kids to school armed to the teeth.... :( after all what other defence have they got.?...Trump being an advocate for guns .....makes any form of sympathy apologetic. >:( >:( >:( I think all schools will need armed guards. How else can they stop the lunatics?        Spot on Bobby......Spot on.....see my previous post above. No magic wand will ever make over 300 million guns vaporize overnight, & no law will ever convince American Gun Owners to voluntarily disarm....or more critically, get criminals to give up their legal or illegal firearms. It will just be an extra school expense - paying for armed guards.

Which is worth more, the life of a few children, or the expense of having armed guards, or better yet, well trained teachers, & staff, with carry permits, already on the payroll, & already willing & able to protect the children??

Solution to gun problem = more guns.

                          ;D

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:14am:

Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D

Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of. 

An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society....

There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;)

can we quantify the acceptable amount of collateral death from the cross fire ?

10 students, 20, 50 ?

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:20am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;)

;D

The schools need security gates like airports with metal detectors
and armed guards.
There is no other way to stop the almost daily school shootings.

In the US the police can not be trusted with guns.

Wonder where school teachers stand ?

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:24am:

can we quantify the acceptable amount of collateral death from the cross fire ? 10 students, 20, 50 ?

http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/crystal-ball--small.gif  You a Swami on Steroids???......If there is an unfortunate incident, & there is collateral death, it would only be because it was unavoidable.....not planned as you seem to imagine.  :D :D ;)

https://s9.postimg.org/m4hhqqom7/books3239_001_smaller.jpg

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:29am:

In the US the police can not be trusted with guns. Wonder where school teachers stand ?

They'll be fine.

There's no chance whatsoever that a teacher would ever go postal and shoot up a classroom full of students.

But, just to be on the safe side, the kids should all have guns in their desks.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:29am:

In the US the police can not be trusted with guns. Wonder where school teachers stand ?

In America they stand among the brave & the free, willing to defend even though it may require an ultimate sacrifice, along with 99+% of all the brave police officers in America that do their sometimes thankless job admirably, day in --- day out..

Given the easy accessibility and range of semi automatic rifles with rapid firepower all over parts of America,

Makes me wonder how long before the next gun massacre in the US will grab headlines again after this one, and how many more gun massacres will occur in the US from now to the end of 2018.

One thing is certain, belief in gun ownership rights is paramount over public safety over there.

stryder wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:47am:

Given the easy accessibility and range of semi automatic rifles with rapid firepower all over parts of America, Makes me wonder how long before the next gun massacre in the US will grab headlines again after this one, and how many more gun massacres will occur in the US from now to the end of 2018. One thing is certain, belief in gun ownership rights is paramount over public safety over there.

This is the 18th school shooting this year.  This year.

I suspect we'll see a lot more massacres before the year is out.

Things are going to get much, much worse - not better.

And that's all thanks to the idiots who say that the solution to the gun problem is more guns.

Insanity. There's no other word for it.

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:02am:

No magic wand will ever make over 300 million guns vaporize overnight, & no law will ever convince American Gun Owners to voluntarily disarm....or more critically, get criminals to give up their legal or illegal firearms.

Many people have been saying this for a long time and they're right.  The Republicans since the 60's have a lot to answer for.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:25am:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:20am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;) ;D

The rest of the world has shown that it's not the only answer, but are tighter gun controls going to work in America when the people have just started accepting the fact that there will be mass murders over and over committed by people using guns?

Probably not.

So rather than taking people's guns away, how about making it hard for new guns to get into the system?  Start there.

Limit the sale of ammunition.  If gun's are used for safety then people won't need massive amounts of it and should they have to use their ammo they can replenish but only to a certain level?

Surely there has to be more than adding more guns to the system and "thoughts and prayers"?

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:07am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:03am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:02am: Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:54am: cods wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:52am: Bobby. wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 7:11am: America is finished. it will be interesting to hear what Trump will say when he visits  the mums and dads who have lost their children...and the partners of the dead teachers..... will he suggest everyone send their kids to school armed to the teeth.... :( after all what other defence have they got.?...Trump being an advocate for guns .....makes any form of sympathy apologetic. >:( >:( >:( I think all schools will need armed guards. How else can they stop the lunatics?        Spot on Bobby......Spot on.....see my previous post above. No magic wand will ever make over 300 million guns vaporize overnight, & no law will ever convince American Gun Owners to voluntarily disarm....or more critically, get criminals to give up their legal or illegal firearms. It will just be an extra school expense - paying for armed guards. Which is worth more, the life of a few children, or the expense of having armed guards, or better yet, well trained teachers, & staff, with carry permits, already on the payroll, & already willing & able to protect the children??

"Highly trained teachers" carrying guns.

Do you not remember what it was like in school?  I had teachers throwing chairs at students to hitting us with text books for clicking our pens.

And you want to give all teachers weapons training and guns in the class rooms?

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 10:10am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:25am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:20am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;) ;D The rest of the world has shown that it's not the only answer, but are tighter gun controls going to work in America when the people have just started accepting the fact that there will be mass murders over and over committed by people using guns? Probably not. So rather than taking people's guns away, how about making it hard for new guns to get into the system?  Start there. Limit the sale of ammunition.  If gun's are used for safety then people won't need massive amounts of it and should they have to use their ammo they can replenish but only to a certain level? Surely there has to be more than adding more guns to the system and "thoughts and prayers"?

Agreed.

The FBI acting on tip-offs would be a good start.

They were told about this guy, and they knew he was an imminent threat, and they did nothing.

I wonder if Trump is going to have some people sacked today.

He's touched down in Florida, so I hear.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 10:17am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:10am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:25am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:20am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;) ;D The rest of the world has shown that it's not the only answer, but are tighter gun controls going to work in America when the people have just started accepting the fact that there will be mass murders over and over committed by people using guns? Probably not. So rather than taking people's guns away, how about making it hard for new guns to get into the system?  Start there. Limit the sale of ammunition.  If gun's are used for safety then people won't need massive amounts of it and should they have to use their ammo they can replenish but only to a certain level? Surely there has to be more than adding more guns to the system and "thoughts and prayers"? Agreed. The FBI acting on tip-offs would be a good start. They were told about this guy, and they knew he was an imminent threat, and they did nothing. I wonder if Trump is going to have some people sacked today. He's touched down in Florida, so I hear.

His response other than "Prayers" (not even thoughts) and blaming the victims and those around the gunman will be interesting.

The overwhelming majority of the population support gun controls of some form, mostly making sure people like this and all the other mass shooters don't get guns or have their guns taken from them.

How you achieve this when the NRA have so poisoned the weak minded into inflating their self worth and inextricably linking that worth to their gun ownership is another story entirely.

Even though for many years in the from the 30's until the early 70's the NRA supported the restrictions in gun ownership by citing the very same 2nd amendment they use now to push for no regulation whatsoever.  But things changed in the 70's when they and the lobby groups decided to take a literal interpretation and pollute the discourse that the Government was going to take away everyone's guns.

The NRA formed its Legislative Affairs Division to update members with facts and analysis of upcoming bills, after the National Firearms Act of 1934 became the first federal gun control law passed in the U.S.

The NRA President in back in the 1930's, during congressional NFA hearings testified "I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. ... I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses."

The NRA supported the NFA along with the Gun Control Act of 1968, which together created a system to federally license gun dealers and established restrictions on particular categories and classes of firearms.

Then it all turned to poo.

It worked once before, it can work once again, but it's a political fantacy to think in the age of such a powerful lobby group who can make or break politica careers and even Presidencies, that anything will change.

For those who go on and on about how strong a leader Trump is, how he doesn't care what others think and only does what's right, if he doesn't fight the gun lobby on this and take a common sense approach he's just another swamp dweller no better than those who came before him.

Since we know without a shadow of a doubt how weak he is as a leader and as a man (he's not even a beta [that's for your aqua]), nothing will change.  He won't show any strength on the issue and he will bow down before the lobby groups and be the swamp dweller he's always been.

stryder wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:47am:

Given the easy accessibility and range of semi automatic rifles with rapid firepower all over parts of America, Makes me wonder how long before the next gun massacre in the US will grab headlines again after this one, and how many more gun massacres will occur in the US from now to the end of 2018. One thing is certain, belief in gun ownership rights is paramount over public safety over there.

Gun Rights...... the People's Individual Right to Self-Defense, was not a Right granted them by any government or ruler, is defended & observed in the People's Document, their Constitution, where the powers granted to the government by the People, are clearly outlined. The government only has the right to govern through the consent of the People, without which it becomes illegitimate.  See Here

The US Constitution was written by the People, for the People, & only the People.....not the Government, has the Right & ability to change any part of it.

The Bill of Rights, the First 10 Amendments to the US Constitution, does not limit the Rights of People ---- It does the exact opposite, it defines limits on the government, whereby protecting the People's Rights. They were placed as the First Ten, because they are the most important to the People.

The Second Amendment was placed second for a reason, to protect the First Amendment, & all the other Rights of the People from all enemies foreign & domestic.....primarily a tyrannical government, which the People have the Right to overthrow if it becomes absolutely necessary....violently, with the use of force, if need be.


Quote:

........We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.........

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 10:39am:

Gun Rights...... the People's Individual Right to Self-Defense, was not a Right granted them by any government or ruler, is defended & observed in the People's Document, their Constitution, where the powers granted to the government by the People, are clearly outlined. The government only has the right to govern through the consent of the People, without which it becomes illegitimate.

But that's not even what the 2nd amendment says.  Nowhere does it grant the individual citizens the right to carry a gun with them 24x7 or even own a gun.

It talks about a well regulated militia to protect the nation as at the time of the drafting there was not a sufficient military to protect the republic.

In today's world this would include groups like the National Guard etc.

From the 1930's until the 70's this allowed Gun ownership regulation with the full support of the NRA.

It wasn't until lobbyists and NRA changed their views in trying to change the interpretation of amendment and finally succeeded in the supreme court and after nearly a 40 year campaign the interpretation was changed to have the 2nd amendment apply to individuals not members of a well regulated militia or the national guard etc.

And if you look at the numbers, since the supreme court decisions in 2008 and 2010 and gun ownership had become even more widespread the rate of mass shootings and deaths from them have greatly increased.

More guns doesn't mean less shootings and fewer deaths if you go by the numbers.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 10:06am:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:02am: No magic wand will ever make over 300 million guns vaporize overnight, & no law will ever convince American Gun Owners to voluntarily disarm....or more critically, get criminals to give up their legal or illegal firearms. Many people have been saying this for a long time and they're right.  The Republicans since the 60's have a lot to answer for.

maybe not  but at least they can stop teenagers BUYING guns which this kid did  legally.....even though he had mental issues...you can buy a gun easier than a car in America.. its total rubbish....

if you cannot drink [legally]till your 21   why can you buy a gun at 17????......

not just anyone old gun either....

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 10:17am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:10am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:25am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:20am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;) ;D The rest of the world has shown that it's not the only answer, but are tighter gun controls going to work in America when the people have just started accepting the fact that there will be mass murders over and over committed by people using guns? Probably not. So rather than taking people's guns away, how about making it hard for new guns to get into the system?  Start there. [Limit the sale of ammunition. If gun's are used for safety then people won't need massive amounts of it and should they have to use their ammo they can replenish but only to a certain level? Surely there has to be more than adding more guns to the system and "thoughts and prayers"? Agreed. The FBI acting on tip-offs would be a good start. They were told about this guy, and they knew he was an imminent threat, and they did nothing. I wonder if Trump is going to have some people sacked today. He's touched down in Florida, so I hear.

American Legislation, limiting ammunition, has already been ruled as unconstitutional on a number of occasions, legislation intended, directly or indirectly, to do just that.

It has been ruled to be as an "infringement upon the Peoples Right to Keep & Bear Arms".......

The same goes for making gun ownership "hard/difficult"......virtually any impediment on law abiding American's ability to procure firearms as they wish, would be seen as an "Infringement upon the Peoples Right to Keep & Bear Arms" as defined by the Supreme Court (who has final say on the interpretation of the Second Amendment & the US Constitution in general), & the US Constitution directly......

Argue as you may wish, & ineffectually will, the Amendment has been defined by the Supreme Courts of the United States, & the operative clause of the Amendment reigns supreme.....it has been ruled that it is an Individual Right of the American People to Keep & Bear Arms:

http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/2ndAmendment.gif

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 11:00am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:17am: ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:10am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:25am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:20am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;) ;D The rest of the world has shown that it's not the only answer, but are tighter gun controls going to work in America when the people have just started accepting the fact that there will be mass murders over and over committed by people using guns? Probably not. So rather than taking people's guns away, how about making it hard for new guns to get into the system?  Start there. [Limit the sale of ammunition. If gun's are used for safety then people won't need massive amounts of it and should they have to use their ammo they can replenish but only to a certain level? Surely there has to be more than adding more guns to the system and "thoughts and prayers"? Agreed. The FBI acting on tip-offs would be a good start. They were told about this guy, and they knew he was an imminent threat, and they did nothing. I wonder if Trump is going to have some people sacked today. He's touched down in Florida, so I hear. Limiting ammunition has already been ruled as unconstitutional on a number of occasions, against various legislation intended, directly or indirectly, to do just that. I has been seen to be as an "infringement upon the Peoples Right to Keep & Bear Arms"....... The same goes for making gun ownership "hard"......any impediment for law abiding Americans to procure firearms as they wish, would be seen as an "Infringment upon the Peoples Right to Keep & Bear Arms" as defined by the Supreme Court (who has final say on the interpretation of the Second Amendment & the US Constitution in general), & the US Constitution directly...... Argue as you may wish, & ineffectually will, the Amendment has been defined by the Supreme Courts of the United States, & the operative clause of the Amendment reigns supreme.....it has been ruled that it is an Individual Right of the American People to Keep & Bear Arms: http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/2ndAmendment.gif

"the people" of a well regulated militia.  Not "the people".

You do realise there is more to the 2nd Ammendment than what you've quoted right?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:34am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:29am: In the US the police can not be trusted with guns. Wonder where school teachers stand ? They'll be fine. There's no chance whatsoever that a teacher would ever go postal and shoot up a classroom full of students. But, just to be on the safe side, the kids should all have guns in their desks.

With some teachers and students they could easily take the gun mans side. Also get rid of a few undesirable students.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 11:14am:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:00am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:17am: ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:10am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:25am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:20am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:14am: Solution to gun problem = more guns.                           ;D Yes, absolutely.......More guns, loaded & ready to serve,  in the hands of qualified & responsible adults, not weekend drunkards who can't determine which end the bullet comes out of.  An armed AMERICAN society is a more polite AMERICAN society.... There is no one size fits all solution, so you go with what works, & in AMERICA it's more armed, law abiding citizens.....;) ;D The rest of the world has shown that it's not the only answer, but are tighter gun controls going to work in America when the people have just started accepting the fact that there will be mass murders over and over committed by people using guns? Probably not. So rather than taking people's guns away, how about making it hard for new guns to get into the system?  Start there. [Limit the sale of ammunition. If gun's are used for safety then people won't need massive amounts of it and should they have to use their ammo they can replenish but only to a certain level? Surely there has to be more than adding more guns to the system and "thoughts and prayers"? Agreed. The FBI acting on tip-offs would be a good start. They were told about this guy, and they knew he was an imminent threat, and they did nothing. I wonder if Trump is going to have some people sacked today. He's touched down in Florida, so I hear. Limiting ammunition has already been ruled as unconstitutional on a number of occasions, against various legislation intended, directly or indirectly, to do just that. I has been seen to be as an "infringement upon the Peoples Right to Keep & Bear Arms"....... The same goes for making gun ownership "hard"......any impediment for law abiding Americans to procure firearms as they wish, would be seen as an "Infringment upon the Peoples Right to Keep & Bear Arms" as defined by the Supreme Court (who has final say on the interpretation of the Second Amendment & the US Constitution in general), & the US Constitution directly...... Argue as you may wish, & ineffectually will, the Amendment has been defined by the Supreme Courts of the United States, & the operative clause of the Amendment reigns supreme.....it has been ruled that it is an Individual Right of the American People to Keep & Bear Arms: http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/2ndAmendment.gif "the people" of a well regulated militia.  Not "the people". You do realise there is more to the 2nd Ammendment than what you've quoted right? A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The United States Supreme Court Has Ruled otherwise, & their ruling is LAW....final.....They ruled that the Right is not predicated upon belonging to any Militia.....they ruled it was an individual right, & as an individual right, firearms can be used for self-defense ;)

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 9:29am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:24am: can we quantify the acceptable amount of collateral death from the cross fire ? 10 students, 20, 50 ? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/crystal-ball--small.gif  You a Swami on Steroids???......If there is an unfortunate incident, & there is collateral death, it would only be because it was unavoidable.....not planned as you seem to imagine.  :D :D ;) https://s9.postimg.org/m4hhqqom7/books3239_001_smaller.jpg

When the result is additional dead children what is the difference ?

it would only be because it was unavoidable

What there is never the option of not pulling the trigger when the gun is pointed at a group of children ? It is always avoidable.

If the FBI had done their job this would have been 'avoidable', and the same goes for the local law enforcement. They knew this lunatic was a risk to the public well before this terrible event.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:29am: Dnarever wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 9:24am: can we quantify the acceptable amount of collateral death from the cross fire ? 10 students, 20, 50 ? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/crystal-ball--small.gif  You a Swami on Steroids???......If there is an unfortunate incident, & there is collateral death, it would only be because it was unavoidable.....not planned as you seem to imagine.  :D :D ;) https://s9.postimg.org/m4hhqqom7/books3239_001_smaller.jpg When the result is additional dead children what is the difference ? it would only be because it was unavoidable What there is never the option of not pulling the trigger when the gun is pointed at a group of children ? It is always avoidable.

True.....only the human being can wake up in the morning & decide to be criminal......will I kill children today, or not......it is avoidable therefore to kill or not to kill.....Criminals wantonly & indiscriminately kill......take that up with the criminal.....the law abiding American Gun owner would not indiscriminately fire upon a group of children or grandmothers.

In the end, if people are killed unintentionally while acting in self-defense, their own, or the defense of others, it is unfortunate, but the price of freedom can sometimes be high....... ;)

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

The United States Supreme Court Has Ruled otherwise, & their ruling is LAW....final.....They ruled that the Right is not predicated upon belonging to any Militia.....they ruled it was an individual right, & as an individual right, firearms can be used for self-defense ;)

I realise that as evidenced by my post above, but for the other 220 odd years since the ratification of the Bill of Rights it didn't mean that.  In fact, as I said, the NRA even supported limits to gun ownership and carry laws for nearly 50 years.  It wasn't until a many decades long campaign and lobbying after they changed their stand that they fought to have the interpretation changed and succeeded.  The final legally accepted interpretation is only 7-10 years old.

And since then, as I'm sure you're aware, the frequency and lethality of mass shootings has increased.  More guns in this case hasn't lead to more safety. 

One solution would be to change that back and campaign to do so.  Then common sense can once again prevail.  But this is the US and their guns we're talking about.  We also know that the answer to "how many children have to die before we'll take this issue seriously" is "there is no number, keep em coming".

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

The United States Supreme Court Has Ruled otherwise, & their ruling is LAW....final.....They ruled that the Right is not predicated upon belonging to any Militia.....they ruled it was an individual right, & as an individual right, firearms can be used for self-defense ;)

Yes in 2008 the supreme court changed the meaning of the second amendment to what the gun lobby wanted it to be.

The second amendment had a very different meaning when it was written and this held for about 200 years.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 11:38am:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:22am: The United States Supreme Court Has Ruled otherwise, & their ruling is LAW....final.....They ruled that the Right is not predicated upon belonging to any Militia.....they ruled it was an individual right, & as an individual right, firearms can be used for self-defense ;) I realise that as evidenced by my post above, but for the other 220 odd years since the ratification of the Bill of Rights it didn't mean that.  In fact, as I said, the NRA even supported limits to gun ownership and carry laws for nearly 50 years.  It wasn't until a many decades long campaign and lobbying after they changed their stand that they fought to have the interpretation changed and succeeded.  The final legally accepted interpretation is only 7-10 years old. And since then, as I'm sure you're aware, the frequency and lethality of mass shootings has increased.  More guns in this case hasn't lead to more safety.  One solution would be to change that back and campaign to do so.  Then common sense can once again prevail.  But this is the US and their guns we're talking about.  We also know that the answer to "how many children have to die before we'll take this issue seriously" is "there is no number, keep em coming".

McDonald v. Chicago

District of Columbia v. Heller

Yes, & the Supreme can change it's decisions, by over-ruling or redefining earlier rulings.

But, until then the Law, as ruled upon, stands, & with the political "complexion" of today's SCOTUS (Very Conservative), & probable very near future appointments making it even more 2^nd Amendment Friendly (another Trump Nomination), the pro-gun rulings will probably stand for decades to come.

The only way the People might be able to change this would be by submitting & ratifying a new anti-gun 28th Amendment to the US Constitution.

Until then.......

http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/2ndAmendment.gif

Panther wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 1:02pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:38am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:22am: The United States Supreme Court Has Ruled otherwise, & their ruling is LAW....final.....They ruled that the Right is not predicated upon belonging to any Militia.....they ruled it was an individual right, & as an individual right, firearms can be used for self-defense ;) I realise that as evidenced by my post above, but for the other 220 odd years since the ratification of the Bill of Rights it didn't mean that.  In fact, as I said, the NRA even supported limits to gun ownership and carry laws for nearly 50 years.  It wasn't until a many decades long campaign and lobbying after they changed their stand that they fought to have the interpretation changed and succeeded.  The final legally accepted interpretation is only 7-10 years old. And since then, as I'm sure you're aware, the frequency and lethality of mass shootings has increased.  More guns in this case hasn't lead to more safety.  One solution would be to change that back and campaign to do so.  Then common sense can once again prevail.  But this is the US and their guns we're talking about.  We also know that the answer to "how many children have to die before we'll take this issue seriously" is "there is no number, keep em coming". McDonald v. Chicago District of Columbia v. Heller Yes, & the Supreme can change it's decisions, by over-ruling or redefining earlier rulings. But, until then the Law, as ruled upon, stands, & with the political "complexion" of today's SCOTUS (Very Conservative), & probable very near future appointments making it even more 2nd Amendment Friendly (another Trump Nomination), the pro-gun rulings will probably stand for decades to come. The only way the People might be able to change this would be by submitting & ratifying a new anti-gun 28th Amendment to the US Constitution. Until then....... http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/2ndAmendment.gif

Or the supreme court could correct the incompetent ruling made in 2008 and re interpret the 2nd amendment to mean what it is actually meant to mean.

The news said the FBI had been alerted to this nutter all of six months ago, but nothing was done. No follow-up.

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:04pm:

The news said the FBI had been alerted to this nutter all of six months ago, but nothing was done. No follow-up.

Correct: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518649846/150#150

They knew who he was, knew what he had, and knew what he was threatening to do.

And, they did ... absolutely nothing.

It's almost as if they actually want these attacks to continue happening.

Too cynical?

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:04pm: The news said the FBI had been alerted to this nutter all of six months ago, but nothing was done. No follow-up. Correct: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518649846/150#150 They knew who he was, knew what he had, and knew what he was threatening to do. And, they did ... absolutely nothing. It's almost as if they actually want these attacks to continue happening. Too cynical?

The FBI and all the other security agencies lost all respect after 9/11 when it was shown that these various departments were loathe to share sensitive information among themselves. Laws were changed as a consequence of this reluctance to divulge information to other security organisations.

Same with the Orlando gay bar shooting. The Feds were warned repeatedly that this character was a loose cannon who needed an ankle bracelet to keep track of him.

US security sucks.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:04pm: The news said the FBI had been alerted to this nutter all of six months ago, but nothing was done. No follow-up. Correct: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518649846/150#150 They knew who he was, knew what he had, and knew what he was threatening to do. And, they did ... absolutely nothing. It's almost as if they actually want these attacks to continue happening. Too cynical?

Anything is possible in this day and age but I'd hope that's a bridge too far.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:19pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:04pm: The news said the FBI had been alerted to this nutter all of six months ago, but nothing was done. No follow-up. Correct: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518649846/150#150 They knew who he was, knew what he had, and knew what he was threatening to do. And, they did ... absolutely nothing. It's almost as if they actually want these attacks to continue happening. Too cynical? Anything is possible in this day and age but I'd hope that's a bridge too far.

Its a rather stupid conspiracy claim. The FBI - like everyone else - makes mistakes and IF the FBI wanted a mass school shooting, why would they need to do ANYTHING since they happen many times every year?

Dnarever wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 1:18pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 1:02pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:38am: Panther wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:22am: The United States Supreme Court Has Ruled otherwise, & their ruling is LAW....final.....They ruled that the Right is not predicated upon belonging to any Militia.....they ruled it was an individual right, & as an individual right, firearms can be used for self-defense ;) I realise that as evidenced by my post above, but for the other 220 odd years since the ratification of the Bill of Rights it didn't mean that.  In fact, as I said, the NRA even supported limits to gun ownership and carry laws for nearly 50 years.  It wasn't until a many decades long campaign and lobbying after they changed their stand that they fought to have the interpretation changed and succeeded.  The final legally accepted interpretation is only 7-10 years old. And since then, as I'm sure you're aware, the frequency and lethality of mass shootings has increased.  More guns in this case hasn't lead to more safety.  One solution would be to change that back and campaign to do so.  Then common sense can once again prevail.  But this is the US and their guns we're talking about.  We also know that the answer to "how many children have to die before we'll take this issue seriously" is "there is no number, keep em coming". McDonald v. Chicago District of Columbia v. Heller Yes, & the Supreme can change it's decisions, by over-ruling or redefining earlier rulings. But, until then the Law, as ruled upon, stands, & with the political "complexion" of today's SCOTUS (Very Conservative), & probable very near future appointments making it even more 2nd Amendment Friendly (another Trump Nomination), the pro-gun rulings will probably stand for decades to come. The only way the People might be able to change this would be by submitting & ratifying a new anti-gun 28th Amendment to the US Constitution. Until then....... http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/2ndAmendment.gif Or the supreme court could correct the incompetent ruling made in 2008 and re interpret the 2nd amendment to mean what it is actually meant to mean.

And why, may I ask, why would a Conservative Court, a more Firearm Friendly Conservative Court than the Court that made the 2008 ruling, overturn a Conservative ruling that has been proven to be historically correct by a vast majority of Constitutional Scholars & Historians, & a ruling that is revered by millions upon millions of Far-Right American Pro-Gun Conservatives Nationwide? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/chuckle002.gif  http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/skrewball004.gif

Well the US does have a serious loon problem, and they are mad for christ, so maybe they should really consider what they intend to do with their superstitious jeezus loons with guns.

No-one who believes in bullsh1t fairy tales should be allowed anywhere near a fkken weapon.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2018 at 3:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:19pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:04pm: The news said the FBI had been alerted to this nutter all of six months ago, but nothing was done. No follow-up. Correct: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518649846/150#150 They knew who he was, knew what he had, and knew what he was threatening to do. And, they did ... absolutely nothing. It's almost as if they actually want these attacks to continue happening. Too cynical? Anything is possible in this day and age but I'd hope that's a bridge too far.

So would I.

Unfortunately, though, it's something I can't completely discount.