Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps.

Easy peasy.

I've always pumped that idea.
I called it 'The Canals of Mars' and it was one of my first Topics on this Forum long ago.
Having lived in the Riverina and seen the 'Irrigation' wonders that makes it our nation's 'Food Bowl'.
I have no doubt that giant Canal systems running through this country's interior would be a benefit in many ways.

Places where it rains heavily and even floods (drain the floods away) - could have such excessive water drained to where its needed.

The benefit of a Canal also brings 'moisture' to the areas it runs through. The ancient South Americans used this practice to 'moisturise' their massive expanses of crops.
Bringing 'moisture' to the interior and accessibility to water would do wonders.

I mean - why can't the interior become a giant 'Nile Delta'?

The legend of the 'Inland Sea' could become a reality.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 11:55pm:

Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy.

Israel has made advances in desalinating sea water.

What is the temperature in summer in central Australian? HM meters of evaporation?

All the more reason to give it a continual supply of fresh water.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 11:55pm:

Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy.

Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA

I would stick to praying Sprint because you have no idea about the real world.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:53am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA

pump fresh water into there

why the need   sprint??.....

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

why the need   sprint??.....

For the native flora and fauna.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:05pm:

cods wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:26pm: why the need   sprint??..... For the native flora and fauna.

The native flora and fauna have adapted to the environment. You want to change the environment, the habitat, so that other flora and fauna will overrun it?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA pump fresh water into there

YOu do realise, the salt in the Murray and MIA didnt come from the irrigation per se right.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:05pm:

cods wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:26pm: why the need   sprint??..... For the native flora and fauna.

The native flora and fauna have evolved in central australia to live in conditions of low rainfall. By irrigating them you will destroy their environment.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:21pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA pump fresh water into there YOu do realise, the salt in the Murray and MIA didnt come from the irrigation per se right.

I think it came from having the trees there cleared

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:51pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:29pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:21pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA pump fresh water into there YOu do realise, the salt in the Murray and MIA didnt come from the irrigation per se right. I think it came from having the trees there cleared

Then dumping a shiteload of water on it, thereby bringing the water table up and the salt was in that water

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:56pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:51pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:29pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:21pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA pump fresh water into there YOu do realise, the salt in the Murray and MIA didnt come from the irrigation per se right. I think it came from having the trees there cleared Then dumping a shiteload of water on it, thereby bringing the water table up and the salt was in that water

I though the salt has in the soil. so it was ok as it was immobile, locked in the soil underground.
Once it got dissolved, it made the water salty, there was a problem.

but if the trees and shrubs were there, it would have been all good.

Anyhow, that is what God told me one day when I was listening to Him.

Quote:

...............Over the past century, at least 15 billion trees have been cleared from the Murray-Darling Basin alone, with the same number felled in Western Australia. Add in the other states, and the total is astronomical........... ..............It underlines the fact that, at this stage of our understanding, there is no real option other than replanting the missing trees. ............

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/salinity/

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 3:46pm:

Quote: ...............Over the past century, at least 15 billion trees have been cleared from the Murray-Darling Basin alone, with the same number felled in Western Australia. Add in the other states, and the total is astronomical........... ..............It underlines the fact that, at this stage of our understanding, there is no real option other than replanting the missing trees. ............ http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/salinity/

Re-planting is not the same as new plantings.

A dog is not the same as a balloon.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:01pm:

A dog is not the same as a balloon.

Wow. That's deep.

So having achieved the dream of irrigating Central Australia, what will you do with it?

It will cost millions. What will you do to recoup the money spent?  Grow blue gums?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:27am:

What is the temperature in summer in central Australian? HM meters of evaporation?

No worse than Adelaide and MUCH colder in Winter.

Darkie people could survive out there, no problem, provided there was water.  There is already a railway.

I have always said that we should "open up" Middle Australia and ship a lot of people out there to "work on" whatever ....  they put a railway line through, so why not do something about "drilling" for water, then settling people out there who came from a similar environment?

Then call it Little Middle East.  ;D

Just  waiting for the boongs to cry about the flooded generation.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:30pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:05pm: cods wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:26pm: why the need   sprint??..... For the native flora and fauna. The native flora and fauna have evolved in central australia to live in conditions of low rainfall. By irrigating them you will destroy their environment.

very true.....there is always LIFE and its how its meant to be.....leave well alone I say....

Sturts Desert Pea seems to thrive very nicely thank you a most beautiful thing...which flowers after heavy rain....its how it was created.....to survive a desert drought and frosts... anything thats thrown at it...

and when the rain comes its shows its thanks...

Gordon wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

Just  waiting for the boongs to cry about the flooded generation.

Did they whine about the railway line?

I still think that some smart Engineer will, eventually, come up with a good idea about how to make the Simpson Desert a  great place to live .... lots of holiday destinations and so forth. It just needs "water" .....  ;)

Besides, it could give an enormous amount of kids from AFRICA and the Middle East experience at WORKING for their living in an environment that they would have been used to ...

Handing out welfare willy nilly is stupid ... they need to do some "hard labour" to build up their muscles and to forget what there gonads are for.

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:30pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:05pm: cods wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:26pm: why the need   sprint??..... For the native flora and fauna. The native flora and fauna have evolved in central australia to live in conditions of low rainfall. By irrigating them you will destroy their environment. very true.....there is always LIFE and its how its meant to be.....leave well alone I say.... Sturts Desert Pea seems to thrive very nicely thank you a most beautiful thing...which flowers after heavy rain....its how it was created.....to survive a desert drought and frosts... anything thats thrown at it... and when the rain comes its shows its thanks...

there will be plenty of desert left for desert flora and fauna

lee wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 4:01pm: A dog is not the same as a balloon. Wow. That's deep. So having achieved the dream of irrigating Central Australia, what will you do with it? It will cost millions. What will you do to recoup the money spent?  Grow blue gums?

'........ Re-planting is not the same as new plantings.......'     is as useful as    ' ..... A dog is not the same as a balloon ......'

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:02pm:

'........ Re-planting is not the same as new plantings.......'     is as useful as    ' ..... A dog is not the same as a balloon ......'

So you don't know what you would do with this newly irrigated Central Australia? Thank you.

What would you do with it ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:06pm:

What would you do with it ?

Leave it as it is.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:53am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA

Never heard of Lake Eyre eh?
What about...  The Inland Sea?

Crikey, where do I start?

There are plenty of inland areas that have fantastic soil and plenty of water.

But its not economic at present to grow anything out there.

Even Kununurra with massive water supplies and good soils is struggling to find economic crops.

The shonky Sandalwood Ponzi schemes are one of the main things keeping Kununurra alive.

The Chinese are going to throw some money into the Ord, however it will probably not be viable for decades.

miketrees wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 10:05pm:

Crikey, where do I start? There are plenty of inland areas that have fantastic soil and plenty of water. But its not economic at present to grow anything out there. Even Kununurra with massive water supplies and good soils is struggling to find economic crops. The shonky Sandalwood Ponzi schemes are one of the main things keeping Kununurra alive. The Chinese are going to throw some money into the Ord, however it will probably not be viable for decades.

really ?
How come?

Too far from 'the market and infrastructure' ?

Too far from 'the market and infrastructure' ?

Yes thats part of the problem.

Try getting people to work out there.

Try keeping produce cool

Try getting transport on unsealed roads.

Try controlling some of the pests

Irrigating a machinery planted and harvested crop that does not need cool storage is half a chance.

Quote:

...........The Ord River irrigation scheme has been plagued by delays, cost blowouts and planning problems, an independent report into the West Australian Government's effort to open up additional farmland in the East Kimberley has found. Auditor-general Colin Murphy's report into the Ord-East Kimberley Development, an expansion of the original 1970s program to open up farmland in the region, described it as a two-year, $415 million project which took seven years and ended up costing the state and federal governments $529 million. Mr Murphy detailed a $24 million accommodation facility which has sat vacant for three years, a 52 per cent blowout in costs to the state and lower-than-expected economic and social benefits. The report also criticised planning problems, stating there were no detailed costings to support the state's decision to fund the project, an unrealistic estimate of the work required, and insufficient monitoring of socio-economic outcomes........

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-07/ord-river-project-plagued-by-cost-blowouts-delays-report/7823422

miketrees wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 10:13pm:

Too far from 'the market and infrastructure' ? Yes thats part of the problem. Try getting people to work out there. Try keeping produce cool Try getting transport on unsealed roads. Try controlling some of the pests Irrigating a machinery planted and harvested crop that does not need cool storage is half a chance.

hahhahahah.

I hear you about the distance issue.
A long way for anything

If the Chinese fly in their own slave labour, then get access to the Chinese market, they may be marginally viable.

http://www.ga.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0013/12640/GA11759.gif

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FYb2_ksZs7w/UiIq4i2jBnI/AAAAAAAATHE/CYaqcRnSNDg/s1600/Australia_Drainage_Basins.jpg


http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/national-location-information/landforms/elevations

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/how/newproducts/images/annualmap.jpg

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/how/newproducts/images/rainatlas_sample2.shtml

miketrees wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 10:26pm:

If the Chinese fly in their own slave labour, then get access to the Chinese market, they may be marginally viable.

a country within a country??...I get it...


the answer is NO... leave it alone..as it has been since forever......havent we stuffed up enough?

a country within a country??...I get it...


Its not what I want for Oz

I want people to pay the correct price for food and Australia to have access to all markets.

Then perhaps Australians can grow more food.

Grendel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:54pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA Never heard of Lake Eyre eh? What about...  The Inland Sea?

You mean salt lakes, full of salt.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:06pm:

What would you do with it ?

LEave it. Work on increasing the efficiency of our current farming land.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 9:04am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 9:06pm: What would you do with it ? LEave it. Work on increasing the efficiency of our current farming land.

thanks for a meaningful answer.


will the current salination problem spread unless  addressed ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 9:26am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 17th, 2018 at 9:04am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 9:06pm: What would you do with it ? LEave it. Work on increasing the efficiency of our current farming land. thanks for a meaningful answer. will the current salination problem spread unless  addressed ?

It is being addressed.

that's good news.

do you know what is being done about it and by who ?

Government scientists etc.

So will irrigating Central Australia bring any salt there to the surface?

lee wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:02am:

So will irrigating Central Australia bring any salt there to the surface?

I couldnt say for certain, but I would assume so.

could be a problem still happening.


Quote:

.............Impacts by state[edit] New South Wales[edit] Currently 5% of New South Wales is affected by dry land salinity, and around 50% is under threat.[9] 15% of current irrigated land is impacted, and up to 70% is currently under threat.[9] The main regions currently affected, and at high risk, are The Murrumbidgee River catchment near Griffith, and Jemalong River Catchment near Forbes, as well as the Murray River irrigation area near Deniliquin.[9] Victoria[edit] The current levels of salinity in Victoria are relatively small, with the main impact expected to occur in high risk areas in the coming years. These high risk areas include the Campaspe, Loddon, Corangamite, Glenelg-Hopkins, Goulburn-Broken catchments, and Wimmera and Mallee regions.[10] The current cost to Victoria is estimated at $50million per year. This is expected to rise significantly with the impacts on agricultural land, wetlands and infrastructure in high risk areas to increase, mainly in part to an anticipated 10 fold increase in salt levels by 2050.[9] Western Australia[edit] Western Australia contains the majority of land affected by salinity in Australia, with around 70%. Over 2 million hectares are currently affected, and around 4 million hectares of land are currently listed as high risk, and 50% of divertible water is already considered overly saline.[9] Around 450 plant species are endemic to areas that are at high risk of salinisation[11] 75% of water bird species in decline, a 75% reduction in sealed road life, and $400million in lost profits.[9] South Australia[edit] Salinity in South Australia is a problem in all principal agricultural areas, with 370000 hectares of land and wetlands impacted. At current rates, this is expected to increase by 60% by 2050.[12] It is expected to cost the state around $47million per year in lost agricultural profit, and is expected to taint more than 20% of ground water to levels above those safe for human consumption.[9] Tasmania[edit] Tasmania is relatively unaffected by salinity, with around 1% of agricultural land, and 8% of farm land adversely affected by salt, resulting in a current cost to the state of around $5million per year, rising to around $13million by 2050. The majority of this salinity is irrigation based.[9] Queensland[edit] Queensland is the least affected state of Australia, due to its unique seasonal rainfall. Around 15000 hectares are currently affected, with 3.1million hectares considered highrisk.[9] At current rates however, salinity is predicted to have moderate scale impacts on land and infrastructure by 2050, with 12,000 km of roads, 1500 km of rail lines, and around 2.8million hectares of agricultural land, remnant vegetation, and wetlands and streams negatively affected[13]............ ............. The final report for the NAPSWQ states that ‘With few exceptions the massive efforts involved in delivering NAPSWQ and NHT programs have at best halted the degradation of these resources. This has reinforced the view of the State of Environment (SoE) Report that concluded that the condition of these resources continues to decline despite the best efforts of the community and government'.[18].............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinity_in_Australia


yep, seems a problem

he Murrumbidgee River catchment near Griffith, and Jemalong River Catchment near Forbes, as well as the Murray River irrigation area near Deniliquin



And what do these three areas have in common?

they are all in NSW

So will irrigating Central Australia bring any salt there to the surface?

There are two main ways to  make saline soils.

If there is an underlying saline water table and you raise that water table (most of Australia's problem)

OR

If your irrigation water is ever so saline and you can not flush and drain the soil the salt will build up.

In Carnarvon WA they have to monitor the salt levels in irrigation water very closely and stop using it if the salinity builds up. There is bugger all rain and also poor drainage means you can bugger up the soil with irrigation.

miketrees wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 5:29pm:

So will irrigating Central Australia bring any salt there to the surface? There are two main ways to  make saline soils. If there is an underlying saline water table and you raise that water table (most of Australia's problem) OR If your irrigation water is ever so saline and you can not flush and drain the soil the salt will build up. In Carnarvon WA they have to monitor the salt levels in irrigation water very closely and stop using it if the salinity builds up. There is bugger all rain and also poor drainage means you can bugger up the soil with irrigation.

I agree with that

Only 1 Party had policies contained in a platform called WATERING AUSTRALIA.
The Greens...  nope
The Libs... Nope
The ALP... nope
The Nationals... nope...

http://www.aboriginaldream.com/images/stories/maps/wa-lake-mackay_aboriginal_art.gif

Lake Mackay

http://www.ga.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0013/12640/GA11759.gif

and this map

and this thought .........


miketrees wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 5:29pm:

So will irrigating Central Australia bring any salt there to the surface? There are two main ways to  make saline soils. If there is an underlying saline water table and you raise that water table (most of Australia's problem) OR If your irrigation water is ever so saline and you can not flush and drain the soil the salt will build up. In Carnarvon WA they have to monitor the salt levels in irrigation water very closely and stop using it if the salinity builds up. There is bugger all rain and also poor drainage means you can bugger up the soil with irrigation.

So we could initially lower the water table level.

Lake torrens is 30M above sea level.
about 200 + kms from the ocean.

draw underground watertable water from there, pump it to the ocean in  SA.

we have a 30m M drop. Which is lot better that a 30M rise over 200 kms

and this map




http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O0kCe9coBUI/TNaePq456oI/AAAAAAAALjs/iIIROCuE3Yc/s1600/map2.jpg

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 8:47pm:

and this thought .........

You've lost me, You want to irrigate Central Australia. You think, yes, salt will be a problem. but you want to do it anyway? :o

And you haven't pointed out any crop for this water.

Aust is benefited by lowering the local water table level and flushing it out with fresh water

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 8:59pm:

Aust is benefited by lowering the local water table level and flushing it out with fresh water

And how is the lowering of the water table achieved?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 8:47pm:

and this thought ......... miketrees wrote on Jan 17th, 2018 at 5:29pm: So will irrigating Central Australia bring any salt there to the surface? There are two main ways to  make saline soils. If there is an underlying saline water table and you raise that water table (most of Australia's problem) OR If your irrigation water is ever so saline and you can not flush and drain the soil the salt will build up. In Carnarvon WA they have to monitor the salt levels in irrigation water very closely and stop using it if the salinity builds up. There is bugger all rain and also poor drainage means you can bugger up the soil with irrigation. So we could initially lower the water table level. Lake torrens is 30M above sea level. about 200 + kms from the ocean. draw underground watertable water from there, pump it to the ocean in  SA. we have a 30m M drop. Which is lot better that a 30M rise over 200 kms

bump

lee wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 9:00pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 8:59pm: Aust is benefited by lowering the local water table level and flushing it out with fresh water And how is the lowering of the water table achieved?

if you have anything to contribute to any topic, that would be good.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 10:24pm:

if you have anything to contribute to any topic, that would be good.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 9:46pm:

Lake torrens is 30M above sea level. about 200 + kms from the ocean. draw underground watertable water from there, pump it to the ocean in  SA.

First you would have to determine there was underground water there. It seems to be a depressed clay pan that fills with water and then slowly evaporates.

http://people.rses.anu.edu.au/dedeckker_p/pubs/123.pdf

Bottom of P 102 (or p2 of pdf) left hand column.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 10:24pm:

lee wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 9:00pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 8:59pm: Aust is benefited by lowering the local water table level and flushing it out with fresh water And how is the lowering of the water table achieved? if you have anything to contribute to any topic, that would be good.

it appears, he doesn't

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:30pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:05pm: cods wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:26pm: why the need   sprint??..... For the native flora and fauna. The native flora and fauna have evolved in central australia to live in conditions of low rainfall. By irrigating them you will destroy their environment.

Get off your high horse Bojack  ;D :D
The 'Environment' changes all the time, even in Australia.
Animals 'adapt' - just like they do with 'human cities' and residential areas.
That's life!
Humans are here to stay.
We can't go back to an environment of 'Pre-Human' existence. That's ...sad thinking.

A certain 'farmer' in SAust allowed canals and weed to grow wild on his property. The nitrogen reinvigoration into his soil and the moisture from his canal systems turned his property into a lush oasis. While the surrounding properties kept peddling 'bull-dust' for lack of.
Ironically he was slapped with Australia's biggest Environmental fine by the so-called 'Western' experts.  ::)
But the Tourist Buses kept coming in to see 'nature' at work.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:51pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:29pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:21pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA pump fresh water into there YOu do realise, the salt in the Murray and MIA didnt come from the irrigation per se right. I think it came from having the trees there cleared

Yep - so true.
They even did a 6 year satellite survey of a large expanse of land that was 'de-forested' and turned into a wheat property. Previously, it always 'rained' when there was trees. Then - no more rain. It still rained where there was Trees 'next door'. Go outback and you will see where the rain clouds form ...over large expanses of TREES.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 3:40pm:

but if the trees and shrubs were there, it would have been all good.

Yep!
All water is good.
But it goes a long way if they don't deforest the hell out of the soil.
Taking the Trees away 'dries' the soil out for starters and keeps the little worms away.

lee wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 4:01pm: A dog is not the same as a balloon. Wow. That's deep. So having achieved the dream of irrigating Central Australia, what will you do with it? It will cost millions. What will you do to recoup the money spent?  Grow blue gums?

Beats wasting $50 billion on France to build our Subs ::)

Gordon wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

Just  waiting for the boongs to cry about the flooded generation.

Well the Aboriginals 'terra-formed' the Continent for starters.
First it was the BIGGEST BBQ to get rid of all the dangerous Mega-Fauna, let alone to eat it all.
Then they kept turning it into the worlds biggest PARKLAND
that allowed 'grazing fauna' like Emus & Kangaroos to be their consistent food supply.
So tell me.
What's going to be wrong with a circulation system of WATER that will invigorate the Outback like Veins & Arteries do to the body?
Maybe 'Westernised' Australians are only good for Politics and couldn't hope to be able to manage such and Environmental masterpiece?  :-?

lee wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:24pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 9:06pm: What would you do with it ? Leave it as it is.

Don't be a typical Lazy westernised Australian!

Grendel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:54pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:53am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:55pm: Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy. Yes, by all means yes completely ruin central Australia through salt like we virtually have the MIA Never heard of Lake Eyre eh? What about...  The Inland Sea?

Yep - it's like a Dream, isn't it ;)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 10:24pm:

miketrees wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 10:13pm: Too far from 'the market and infrastructure' ? Yes thats part of the problem. Try getting people to work out there. Try keeping produce cool Try getting transport on unsealed roads. Try controlling some of the pests Irrigating a machinery planted and harvested crop that does not need cool storage is half a chance. hahhahahah. I hear you about the distance issue. A long way for anything

So much for the 'Innovation' that Turnbull is plugging.
As long as its for the UK & USA eh? ::)
Stuff Australia's domestic needs!  :P

Look at Australia now - the Present.
Stuck to the Coastlines, afraid to venture inwards.
Doing nothing much but be a hand-me-down 'sub-nation' for the UK/USA.

Once the Interior opens up and provides the advancements and 'future' - you watch everyone leave the 'poorer' Coasts (surviving via holiday tourism only) and head inland where the money is!

I was given a personal tour of the Chairman of Irrigation's property (Riverina). The amazing ability of Satellites for starters, and the ability to 're-use' water upon 'gradiented' lands (pumped back up to 'flow down' through the soil).

Just one of many examples around the world that give a consistent use of water on land for farming.

There are many factors involved - like not stripping 'hills' of their Trees for starters (promotes 'weathering', erosion and too fast water run-off, etc).

The main fact is that Australia NEEDS to turn the interior into a vast irrigated and water infused system of provision.
Maybe 'Westernised' Australians don't have the capability to cope with such a responsibility (beyond Politics  ::)), let alone don't have the mental capacity to achieve such a thing. But the Interior will one day change to 'provide' and become a Garden/Oasis/Irrigation Rural setup.
Even a Canal draining the excess of Monsoon in the Northern Territory down through the interior and into drought stricken (because they cut all their trees down  ::)) South Australia is a good start.

Not allowing 'farms' to edge onto waterways where livestock ruin the quality of waterways - turning them from crystal clear to muddy-turgid affairs. Yep - just 200 years ago, you could see the bottom of the Murray River, let alone the inlets of the Pittwater system.

If 'Westernised' Australians don't or can't do it. Then they should step aside and let others achieve more than just Politics in this country.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 11:55pm:

Desalinate sea water using Carnagie purifiers and pump it inland using solar powered pumps. Easy peasy.

I think you have been playing Sim City 2000 too much and have no real idea how to go about such an extreme engineering plan. I figure that there should be some kind of attempt at pumping water into central Australia. Not for irrigation purposes. But for the sake of the few living out there. But there are only few people living out in the remote regions of Australia for reasons:
1. Too hot
2. Too cold
3. Nothing out there for them -- too far from convenience
4. Can't grow much food out there on infertile land.

Even when you see trees and shrubs growing in central Australia, it is because the plants are salt tolerant. Whenever heavy rain comes inland to those regions, it does not do much for washing away salt soils. Whatever fertile regions you can find out there, it would be too little to be of any farming use.

For those wondering what can be done about the salt content of the soil, there are efforts being conducted by Greening Australia to use salt tolerant plants (Saltgrow) to reverse the high soil salinity and make the areas viable for cultivation (again). Though the planting and growing of these plants takes time and patience, the pay off is worthwhile. Unfortunately, it would take generations of volunteer strong efforts to do the widest area of land possible. This to make people 50 years in the future be able to plant in desperate times of food shortage in areas we could not grow food today. It seems like a fantasy. I would assume that the efforts to reverse soil salinity would be limited to the areas where pastoralists and graziers can feasibly use.

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 6:41pm:

Only 1 Party had policies contained in a platform called WATERING AUSTRALIA. The Greens...  nope The Libs... Nope The ALP... nope The Nationals... nope...

Oh and of course there was Ernie Bridges and the Watering Australia Foundation...

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 10:50pm:

it appears, he doesn't

Wouldn't the FIRST step be to see if it is viable? That there is saline water under the lake?

Apparently not; spend the money the water will come. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Taking the Trees away 'dries' the soil out for starters and keeps the little worms away.

No I think we could discuss this.. trees are used as pumps to lower water tables.

miketrees wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 9:15pm:

Taking the Trees away 'dries' the soil out for starters and keeps the little worms away. No I think we could discuss this.. trees are used as pumps to lower water tables.

yes, I see trees as being the critical factor here.

Counterintuitive that to lower the water table is beneficial.

Some good comments being added.

A lot of water in the artesian basin has been tapped and has now being capped, what a resource if managed properly, pump water in from the north and tap it in the center of Australia, trouble is it takes 65,000,000yrs to get there.

https://industry.gov.au/resource/Documents/radioactive_waste/hydrogeological_assessment_of_a_region_1999.pdf

Appears Roxby downs/Andamooka has a water table close to the surface, is quite salty and has an underground flow towards there.

that sort of area can be the area to pump underground salty water from and direct it to the ocean in SA.
Not too far away.

use solar power for the water pumps, they'll run 8 hours a day.

Miketrees:

Quote:

Too far from 'the market and infrastructure' ? Yes thats part of the problem. Try getting people to work out there. Try keeping produce cool Try getting transport on unsealed roads. Try controlling some of the pests Irrigating a machinery planted and harvested crop that does not need cool storage is half a chance.

That crop can only be cotton.

https://images.theconversation.com/files/21756/original/mjdph2hn-1364275760.jpg

http://theconversation.com/water-in-water-out-assessing-the-future-of-the-great-artesian-basin-13104

the great artesian basin may not go far south enough to reach Roxby downs/Andamooka/Lake Torrens

Quote:

..........on the floor of Lake Buchanan, Qld. Such a zone of soft wet sediment commonly occurs along a zone of groundwater..............

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0031018288900569

Lake Buchanan is a salt lake in the Galilee basin.
400 kms west of Mackay. Good rainfall there.

The Great Artesian Basin is a finite source of water. It's been said that is has been 'half used up' already. I wouldn't be surprised.

Trees create 'shade'. Shade protect worms and other critters that reinvigorate the soil. Proven fact. Giant 'shade cloths' are a Sci-Fi concept, but sum up what's needed if you want 'fertile' soil.
Forests create a 'cooling' effect under the canopy for starters.
South Americans used minor canal systems - where the moisture from the water would 'water' the surrounding crops during the night and hence why they could do such massive crops back then.
Constant 'ducting' of the Water Canals would create a constant 'movement' of water to prevent things going 'stagnant'.

...basically, if 'we' can't turn the interior of Australia into a 'Garden' - then we've got 'buckleys' of habitat/terraforming other planets (like Mars for starters).
You either start here, right now - or just forget it!
If 'Western' culture can't do it, then follow the advice of other cultures that can.
Even now, West Africans are creating a 'Great Tree Wall' against the onset of the Sahara desert and ...its working in a small way with its early beginning.

I wouldn't rely too heavily on the CSIRO. They've been responsible for a few stuff-ups and are chiefly hamstrung by Political fundings.
Hell, they sacked some Dutch guy who 'cured' Farmer's lands of 'chemical sterilisation' a foot deep (due to years of using chemicals/pesticides/etc) ...because he didn't conform to their 'Political' control policies.
Twats! Basically.  ::)
CSIRO is great in some respects, but its also a control freak that thinks 'science' is the answer to everything - only!
Putting PACU Piranha in a Papuan River system is just another of their crazy efforts of 'short term' answers due to Govt fundings.

Anyway - keep the dream alive.
Keep looking for the ...INLAND SEA.

Great posting Ja

https://www.brandsouthafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/remote/2016/08/1970-0-0-0_2525555.jpg

Jasin wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 11:05pm:

...........Trees create 'shade'. Shade protect worms and other critters that reinvigorate the soil. Proven fact. Giant 'shade cloths' are a Sci-Fi concept, but sum up what's needed if you want 'fertile' soil. Forests create a 'cooling' effect under the canopy for starters...........

yes, I put in a Butterfly Forest in our backyard last year.
Soil is totally shaded.
We have many animals living here now.
Above and below the mulch

http://www.cridem.org/media/photos/photo//muraille_verte_rim.jpg

Jasin wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 11:05pm:

The Great Artesian Basin is a finite source of water. It's been said that is has been 'half used up' already. I wouldn't be surprised. Trees create 'shade'. Shade protect worms and other critters that reinvigorate the soil. Proven fact. Giant 'shade cloths' are a Sci-Fi concept, but sum up what's needed if you want 'fertile' soil. Forests create a 'cooling' effect under the canopy for starters. South Americans used minor canal systems - where the moisture from the water would 'water' the surrounding crops during the night and hence why they could do such massive crops back then. Constant 'ducting' of the Water Canals would create a constant 'movement' of water to prevent things going 'stagnant'. ...basically, if 'we' can't turn the interior of Australia into a 'Garden' - then we've got 'buckleys' of habitat/terraforming other planets (like Mars for starters). You either start here, right now - or just forget it! If 'Western' culture can't do it, then follow the advice of other cultures that can. Even now, West Africans are creating a 'Great Tree Wall' against the onset of the Sahara desert and ...its working in a small way with its early beginning. I wouldn't rely too heavily on the CSIRO. They've been responsible for a few stuff-ups and are chiefly hamstrung by Political fundings. Hell, they sacked some Dutch guy who 'cured' Farmer's lands of 'chemical sterilisation' a foot deep (due to years of using chemicals/pesticides/etc) ...because he didn't conform to their 'Political' control policies. Twats! Basically.  ::) CSIRO is great in some respects, but its also a control freak that thinks 'science' is the answer to everything - only! Putting PACU Piranha in a Papuan River system is just another of their crazy efforts of 'short term' answers due to Govt fundings. Anyway - keep the dream alive. Keep looking for the ...INLAND SEA.

It would be good if we had another planet going in case this one blows up.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 1:38am:

Jasin wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 11:05pm: ...........Trees create 'shade'. Shade protect worms and other critters that reinvigorate the soil. Proven fact. Giant 'shade cloths' are a Sci-Fi concept, but sum up what's needed if you want 'fertile' soil. Forests create a 'cooling' effect under the canopy for starters........... yes, I put in a Butterfly Forest in our backyard last year. Soil is totally shaded. We have many animals living here now. Above and below the mulch

The Aust' sun can be a harsh customer. Even Africans come here and say "Man it's bright here!". Due to the surrounding ocean that 'reflects' light back onto the atmosphere (like Venus). So whatever 'shade' we can give the soil, will return a better quality - that hasn't been dried out.
Hell, if Wollemi Pine can survive millions of years in a nicely 'shaded' gully...  ;)

Johnnie wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 2:29am:

Jasin wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 11:05pm: The Great Artesian Basin is a finite source of water. It's been said that is has been 'half used up' already. I wouldn't be surprised. Trees create 'shade'. Shade protect worms and other critters that reinvigorate the soil. Proven fact. Giant 'shade cloths' are a Sci-Fi concept, but sum up what's needed if you want 'fertile' soil. Forests create a 'cooling' effect under the canopy for starters. South Americans used minor canal systems - where the moisture from the water would 'water' the surrounding crops during the night and hence why they could do such massive crops back then. Constant 'ducting' of the Water Canals would create a constant 'movement' of water to prevent things going 'stagnant'. ...basically, if 'we' can't turn the interior of Australia into a 'Garden' - then we've got 'buckleys' of habitat/terraforming other planets (like Mars for starters). You either start here, right now - or just forget it! If 'Western' culture can't do it, then follow the advice of other cultures that can. Even now, West Africans are creating a 'Great Tree Wall' against the onset of the Sahara desert and ...its working in a small way with its early beginning. I wouldn't rely too heavily on the CSIRO. They've been responsible for a few stuff-ups and are chiefly hamstrung by Political fundings. Hell, they sacked some Dutch guy who 'cured' Farmer's lands of 'chemical sterilisation' a foot deep (due to years of using chemicals/pesticides/etc) ...because he didn't conform to their 'Political' control policies. Twats! Basically.  ::) CSIRO is great in some respects, but its also a control freak that thinks 'science' is the answer to everything - only! Putting PACU Piranha in a Papuan River system is just another of their crazy efforts of 'short term' answers due to Govt fundings. Anyway - keep the dream alive. Keep looking for the ...INLAND SEA. It would be good if we had another planet going in case this one blows up.

Yes - I'm not embarrassed to say: a nice 'contingency' plan is always a good policy to have.

That crop can only be cotton.

@Monk

They tried cotton on the Ord but the insects defeated them the first time decades ago.

They are right now looking at cotton again using GM cotton and a few more things.

I think they even tried SIT (Sterile Insect Technique) with Heliothis ,,, but obviously it did not work.
Although thinking about it they may not have used SIT on heliothis since it is a native insect.

But they are growing cotton on the Darling River, Cubby Station etc and we are talking about Central Australia.

My pet project—keep Lake Eyre permanently flooded to moderate the climate in the centre and areas east. Probably way too shallow.

BuMet are not in favor of my idea—too much controversy I think—and told me wtte a high develops and sits on the L. Eyre region. Weather systems are not stationary forever!

If sea levels rise much further—we will see a flooded Lake Eyre anyway  :)

CSIRO wants to spend $10billion (to start with  ;)) to start up another 'Riverina MIA' system up in north-west QLD, Diamantina River region.

There is already an irrigation scheme in north western Australia. The Ord River scheme has been running since Lake Argyle was created in 1972 with only limited success.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 11:57am:

There is already an irrigation scheme in north western Australia. The Ord River scheme has been running since Lake Argyle was created in 1972 with only limited success.

Yes, I've heard about that. Was it due to less funding?
Less interest by CSIRO? Just a short term appeasement project?


...I wonder? What would a big inland lake the size of Baikal or Chad (before they were sucked dry by farmers, cities) be like in the middle of OZ? A permanent fixture on the environment? Would it create 'wetlands' for much wildlife?
Would it support a vein/artery system of waterways that spread to and from the Lake?

There is already an irrigation scheme in north western Australia. The Ord River scheme has been running since Lake Argyle was created in 1972 with only limited success.

Yes as I pointed out earlier the only thing keeping Kununurra agriculture going is the dodgy Indian Sandalwood Ponzi schemes.
Quintis (Tropical Forest Services ) the biggest Sandalwood grower is on the brink of going broke as well.
Which is ok if some decent company buys up the plantations cheap, and run them properly they may work.