It's official!
The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings.

Jasin wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 9:58am:

It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings.

Really?
How long ago was the last Ice Age again?

Grendel wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 11:09am:

Jasin wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:58am: It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings. Really? How long ago was the last Ice Age again?

Wasn't the last Ice-Age recent?
An age where it subdued the moisture in the atmosphere and caused a 10,000 year drought in Australia, that scuttled the Aboriginal culture from 'living' to just 'surviving' ...since the Aboriginals arrived during a previous Ice Age across a land-bridge from Australasia (South Asia)?

But saying this, hasn't Humanity 'risen' from Ape-to-Hominid-to Sapien during a period of Global Temperature being way lower/cooler than it 'normally' is?

Being a Scuba Diver - nothing worse than a CO2 hit (increase), just like sea-sickness and at worse, can cause death.

---

Why do I get the urge to high five everyone YES!

Jasin wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 9:58am:

It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings.

Got a reference for that?

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/mlo_one_month.png

According to Mauna Loa, CO2 is so stable it never got above 300ppm, until about 1950. Of course that is using Ice Core data, which has been shown to be not accurate.

Then again. According to plant stomata CO2 has never been stable

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image354.gif


According to Wagner et al and others, using fossil plant stomata, it has approached 340ppm. Due to the small number of studies, there can be no guarantee that CO2 is the "highest on record in 800,000 years".

Yeah Lee.
It was all over the News this morning  ;)

miketrees wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 11:28am:

Why do I get the urge to high five everyone YES!

...cos you're a d(((((ead   :o

Jasin wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 5:24pm:

Yeah Lee. It was all over the News this morning  ;)

So some people are remote from reality. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

"It shows how carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4) and nitrous oxide (N2O) are at higher levels than they have ever been at any time over the last 800,000 years, according to the ice core records going back that far."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-01/greenhouse-gases-database-shows-co2-ch4-n2o-rising-relentlessly/8578918

;)

I didn't say that the Media was 'right'.
In fact, it's hard to say what really is going on in the world beyond the fact that Billions of people will die soon.

Jasin wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 7:40pm:

In fact, it's hard to say what really is going on in the world beyond the fact that Billions of people will die soon.

And Billions more will be born. C'est La Vie. ;)

Jasin wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 9:58am:

It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings.

And?? No relation to global temperatures.

Mobile phone use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records.
Wrist watch use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records.
Rate of reading after sunset is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records.
Population is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records.
Number of people clamouring for gay marriage is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records.

ETC.

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 8:30pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 7:40pm: In fact, it's hard to say what really is going on in the world beyond the fact that Billions of people will die soon. And Billions more will be born. C'est La Vie. ;)

;D Yes indeed  ;)

Frank wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 8:59pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:58am: It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings. And?? No relation to global temperatures. Mobile phone use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Wrist watch use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Rate of reading after sunset is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Population is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Number of people clamouring for gay marriage is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. ETC.

Don't shoot the Messenger  :D

I personally think the world should be a lot warmer and wetter than what it has been for over a million years.
The planet needs more 'oxygen' in its atmosphere and is trying to right itself.

People say it's not 'natural' for our inducement of 'warming' via our 'scientific' inventions of progress.
But to me, Humanity is a part of Nature and this World and what we are doing is ...natural, regardless if we are seeing it as 'flaw'. We are 'meant' to do this.

Jasin wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:22pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 8:59pm: Jasin wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:58am: It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings. And?? No relation to global temperatures. Mobile phone use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Wrist watch use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Rate of reading after sunset is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Population is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Number of people clamouring for gay marriage is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. ETC. Don't shoot the Messenger  :D I personally think the world should be a lot warmer and wetter than what it has been for over a million years. The planet needs more 'oxygen' in its atmosphere and is trying to right itself. People say it's not 'natural' for our inducement of 'warming' via our 'scientific' inventions of progress. But to me, Humanity is a part of Nature and this World and what we are doing is ...natural, regardless if we are seeing it as 'flaw'. We are 'meant' to do this.

You're saying just let it all hang out!

Sounds like anarchy to me!!

Frank wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 8:59pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:58am: It's official! The CO2 levels are the highest on record in 800,000 years of back-dated recordings. And?? No relation to global temperatures. Mobile phone use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Wrist watch use is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Rate of reading after sunset is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Population is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. Number of people clamouring for gay marriage is highest on record in 800,000 years of back dated records. ETC.

The trouble is frank you arent seeking to answer the questions you raise: you want everyone else to provide you with a free lunch which is what Jevons Paradox is all about funnily enough!

It's interesting Jasinner that you have used the same discredited graph that Ajax spams us with.

Not only has the error bars been removed but the time scale of 100s of millions of years is completely useless. Over that time scale continental drift, the earths orbit, solar radiance and other factors play a huge roll in global climate. Homosapiens only appeared about 200,000 years ago which shows just how ludicrous that graph is.

In contrast a graph of the past 800,000 years shows that CO2 levels didn't get above 300 ppm. The modern level is 400 ppm

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The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 8:47pm:

In contrast a graph of the past 800,000 years shows that CO2 levels didn't get above 300 ppm. The modern level is 400 ppm

Yep. And doesn't agree with plant stomata data. As I posted. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well I've seen so many different graphs showing different things. It's hard to believe which is right or wrong.
Luckily, I have a mate down in the Antarctic atm - so I've been getting my stuff from their 'point of view'. It's the best I can deal with currently.

Jasin wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 9:58pm:

Well I've seen so many different graphs showing different things. It's hard to believe which is right or wrong. Luckily, I have a mate down in the Antarctic atm - so I've been getting my stuff from their 'point of view'. It's the best I can deal with currently.

What's going on down there?

:o

TheFunPolice wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 12:46pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 9:58pm: Well I've seen so many different graphs showing different things. It's hard to believe which is right or wrong. Luckily, I have a mate down in the Antarctic atm - so I've been getting my stuff from their 'point of view'. It's the best I can deal with currently. What's going on down there? :o

The ice is melting. Plays havoc with the scotch.

The ice is still melting- use dry ice is instead stooges

Agnes wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 4:29pm:

The ice is still melting- use dry ice is instead stooges

Give cods her metho back NOW  ::)

TheFunPolice wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 12:46pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 9:58pm: Well I've seen so many different graphs showing different things. It's hard to believe which is right or wrong. Luckily, I have a mate down in the Antarctic atm - so I've been getting my stuff from their 'point of view'. It's the best I can deal with currently. What's going on down there? :o

Officially it has been the warmest and windiest Antarctic Winter on record (re: human habitation of the Continent).

Jasin wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 8:48pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 12:46pm: Jasin wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 9:58pm: Well I've seen so many different graphs showing different things. It's hard to believe which is right or wrong. Luckily, I have a mate down in the Antarctic atm - so I've been getting my stuff from their 'point of view'. It's the best I can deal with currently. What's going on down there? :o Officially it has been the warmest and windiest Antarctic Winter on record (re: human habitation of the Continent).

Interesting!

Jasin wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Officially it has been the warmest and windiest Antarctic Winter on record (re: human habitation of the Continent).

Is that the winter of 1898 or when Australian records were started in 1854?

The statistics for Mawson don't seem to back up warmest.

http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=36&p_display_type=dataFile&p_stn_num=300001

lee wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 9:35pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:48pm: Officially it has been the warmest and windiest Antarctic Winter on record (re: human habitation of the Continent). Is that the winter of 1898 or when Australian records were started in 1854? The statistics for Mawson don't seem to back up warmest. http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=36&p_display_type=dataFile&p_stn_num=300001

I need to get back to you on that one. Good point.
I gotta find out if it was for 'all of Antarctica' or just the Station in particular and it's area.
I was under the belief it was for 'all of the continent' - but its better to be sure.

Seeing as the continent is largely uninhabited how would they determine the average for the continent?

Edit: Antarctica - approx 14,000,000 sq km. According to wiki 86 permanent stations. average coverage, assuming equal spread - about 162,700sq km.

Edit: another oops - only about 43 active permanent stations. Average blows out to over 325,000 sq km.

lee wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 9:35pm:

Is that the winter of 1898 or when Australian records were started in 1854?

Big Oops. Australian records started 1954.

Yes well, we won't get pedantic on every square inch to km that is uninhabited.
Unless they have well measured out recording beacons in every square km?
Then I guess we just go by with what we got.
Not happy - go fund a better version.  :D

It won't be till tomorrow night before I get my answer.

Jasin wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 10:51pm:

Yes well, we won't get pedantic on every square inch to km that is uninhabited. Unless they have well measured out recording beacons in every square km? Then I guess we just go by with what we got. Not happy - go fund a better version.  :D It won't be till tomorrow night before I get my answer.

You do realise the error bars in homogenisation of that size? ;)

Bad is better than evil  ;)

Jasin wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 11:48am:

Bad is better than evil  ;)

Bad is worse than good.. ;)

Question.
If we just had the highest CO2 levels in 800,000 years doesn't that mean we've had higher before then? ;D

Grendel wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 3:31pm:

Question. If we just had the highest CO2 levels in 800,000 years doesn't that mean we've had higher before then? ;D

It's about rates of change!

Should we have another ten billion page circle jerk about rates of change because I know you want to?

:D

We should be getting more concerned about N20 and CH4.   N20 is up to 300 times more effective at trapping heat in the atmosphere.


Quote:

Carbon dioxide is the currency of climate change and, in those terms, one tonne of methane emitted to the atmosphere (for example from livestock) is equivalent to 34 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions. One tonne of nitrous oxide is equivalent to 298 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 3:50pm:

We should be getting more concerned about N20 and CH4.   N20 is up to 300 times more effective at trapping heat in the atmosphere. Quote: Carbon dioxide is the currency of climate change and, in those terms, one tonne of methane emitted to the atmosphere (for example from livestock) is equivalent to 34 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions. One tonne of nitrous oxide is equivalent to 298 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

They talk about CO2_e for a reason and they always have....

;)

Sorry - didn't get my answer from the Antarctic.
Was 'busy' watching Ragnarok.  :D
Maybe tomorrow night.

But I will add that yes - Methane is the biggest worry and with all the Permafrost areas of Canada/Siberia releasing 'accelerating' amounts and amounts also up from the oceans...

Grendel wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 3:31pm:

Question. If we just had the highest CO2 levels in 800,000 years doesn't that mean we've had higher before then? ;D

Yes we have. But since homo sapiens have only been around for 200,000 years it's completely irrelevant

Jasin wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 10:45pm:

Methane is the biggest worry and with all the Permafrost areas of Canada/Siberia releasing 'accelerating' amounts and amounts also up from the oceans...

And yet -

"The last ice age transition to a warmer climate some 11,500 years ago did not include massive methane flux from marine sediments or the tundra, new research suggests. Instead, the likely source of rising levels of atmospheric methane was from tropical wetlands, authors of the new study say. "

"Atmospheric methane has increased from 750 parts per billion in the year 1750 to more than 1,800 parts per billion today -- mostly from anthropogenic sources, especially leakage from fossil fuel production, the creation of rice paddies, and cattle ranching, the researchers say."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170823131234.htm

From the same article

While this certainly is good news, the study also points at a larger role of humans in the recent methane rise, noted Edward Brook, an Oregon State University paleoclimatologist and co-author on the study

"Our findings show that natural geologic emissions of methane -- for example, leakage from oil seeps or gas deposits in the ground -- are much smaller than previously thought," Brook said. "That means that a greater percentage of the methane in the atmosphere today is due to human activities, including oil drilling, and the extraction and transport of natural gas."

The study suggests that human emissions of geologic methane may be as much as 25 percent higher than previous estimates. Although not as abundant as carbon dioxide, methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas and therefore the rising levels are an important contributor to global warming.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170823131234.htm

So lee, do you agree with this part of the study too? Or do you just cherry pick the parts of the study that suit you?

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 5^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

So lee, do you agree with this part of the study too? Or do you just cherry pick the parts of the study that suit you?

Of course I agree it is part of the study.


The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 5^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

"Our findings show that natural geologic emissions of methane -- for example, leakage from oil seeps or gas deposits in the ground -- are much smaller than previously thought," Brook said. "That means that a greater percentage of the methane in the atmosphere today is due to human activities, including oil drilling, and the extraction and transport of natural gas."

Now all they have to do is prove they have identified all the methane seeps in the ocean. ;)

So you disagree with the inconvenient parts

Good to see that you are consistently inconsistent  ::)

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 5^th, 2017 at 11:50am:

So you disagree with the inconvenient parts Good to see that you are consistently inconsistent  ::)

So you agree wholeheartedly with anything that may have one tiny part that you think true?

"The moon is a sphere. The moon is made of blue-vein cheese.";D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

"Scientists have shown that ocean clams and worms are releasing a significant amount of potentially harmful greenhouse gas into the atmosphere.

The team, from Cardiff University and Stockholm University, have shown that the ocean critters are producing large amounts of the strongest greenhouse gases - methane and nitrous oxides - from the bacteria in their guts.

Methane gas is making its way into the water and then finally out into the atmosphere, contributing to global warming - methane has 28 times greater warming potential than carbon dioxide.

A detailed analysis showed that around 10 per cent of total methane emissions from the Baltic Sea may be due to clams and worms."

"Co-author of the study Dr Ernest Chi Fru, from Cardiff University's School of Earth and Ocean Sciences, said: "What is puzzling is that the Baltic Sea makes up only about 0.1% of Earth's oceans, implying that globally, apparently harmless bivalve animals at the bottom of the world's oceans may in fact be contributing ridiculous amounts of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere that is unaccounted for."

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-baltic-clams-worms-greenhouse-gas.html#jCpCo-author of the study Dr Ernest Chi Fru, from Cardiff University's School of Earth and Ocean Sciences, said: "What is puzzling is that the Baltic Sea makes up only about 0.1% of Earth's oceans, implying that globally, apparently harmless bivalve animals at the bottom of the world's oceans may in fact be contributing ridiculous amounts of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere that is unaccounted for." "

https://phys.org/news/2017-10-baltic-clams-worms-greenhouse-gas.html#jCp

And that's just from the clams and worms. The other 90%?

Jasin wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 10:45pm:

Sorry - didn't get my answer from the Antarctic. Was 'busy' watching Ragnarok.  :D Maybe tomorrow night. But I will add that yes - Methane is the biggest worry and with all the Permafrost areas of Canada/Siberia releasing 'accelerating' amounts and amounts also up from the oceans...

Nah, co2 emissions will always remain the biggest worry because they are what will cause methane emissions!

Cut the co2 e,is signs and you win the war: the marketplace knows this and the market place is intervened by government alone!


;)

High CO2 yet it's so cold.


Heard on the TV yesterday - this has been the coldest start in November in 20 years in Melbourne.
Last night it was only 7 degrees.

More of the latest news:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRbvSFtsN_8


Massive Snow Accumulation Records U.S & Canada & Greenland All Time Ice Gain (479)
Published on Nov 4, 2017.


Record snows blanket western USA and Canada, its not only the depth of the snowfall, but the record early start for such depths. Additionally record early melt season end in the Arctic, rebounding sea ice growth and record Greenland ice growth especially on the western edge which used to be the IPCC favorite area to prove global warming. Its her, time is up, welcome to the grand solar minimum intensification.