Seems the latest thing among bored middleclass idiots is to not have their kids vaccinated.

The obvious thing happened: measles outbreaks are now common. Phooey, childhood diseases antivaxxers cry. Yeah, childhood diseases that can scar, blind and kill children!

But I dread other, more dangerous diseases that may make a return.

One case buried somewhere in the Ice Age thread is the case of a deer in Siberia that died and was frozen. With global warming that deer thawed out—and anthrax got spread from the carcass! What other diseases might be stored in the thawing tundras and ice?

I can see smallpox making a return, polio maybe and anthrax as already stated.

Vaccinate your kids! Read up and talk to your doctor—you may need a booster!

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:32pm:

One case buried somewhere in the Ice Age thread is the case of a deer in Siberia that died and was frozen. With global warming that deer thawed out—and anthrax got spread from the carcass! What other diseases might be stored in the thawing tundras and ice?

Yep. And it was apparently a deer that died 70 years ago, in the last anthrax epidemic up there. It got covered and then uncovered. And the Russkies stopped the vaccinations.

The tundra was obviously not that deep 70 years ago. Kinda puts any current warming in perspective.

Yawn.

But do we need to add anthrax and smallpox to present vaccinations?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:47pm:

But do we need to add anthrax and smallpox to present vaccinations?

It makes sense to reintroduce them t affected areas. Not worldwide. ;)

With airtravel common that may not be enough.

Spanish flu, that in 1919 killed more people than WWI could also come back.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:18pm:

With airtravel common that may not be enough. Spanish flu, that in 1919 killed more people than WWI could also come back.

The majority of deaths were due to secondary bacterial infections and pneumonia, which can be treated today.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:18pm:

With airtravel common that may not be enough.

What about if there was vaccination, say seven days, before exiting affected areas?

Right, and nobody would be missed?

No, if vaccinations are needed they should be done globally.

The other aspect of the antivaxxers is “herd immunity.”

With more and more kids not vaccinated against all advice herd immunity suffers.


Quote:

Community Immunity ("Herd Immunity") Vaccines can prevent outbreaks of disease and save lives. When a critical portion of a community is immunized against a contagious disease, most members of the community are protected against that disease because there is little opportunity for an outbreak. Even those who are not eligible for certain vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals—get some protection because the spread of contagious disease is contained. This is known as "community immunity." The principle of community immunity applies to control of a variety of contagious diseases, including influenza, measles, mumps, rotavirus, and pneumococcal disease.

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/protection/index.html

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:42pm:

Right, and nobody would be missed? No, if vaccinations are needed they should be done globally.

If you required a travel document to travel externally, you would need a vaccination.

Gordon wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:30pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:18pm: With airtravel common that may not be enough. Spanish flu, that in 1919 killed more people than WWI could also come back. The majority of deaths were due to secondary bacterial infections and pneumonia, which can be treated today.

Ah, sorry, didn’t see your post before. Do you have a link for me to read up?

But today, following decades of overprescription of antibiotics we have superbugs, antibiotic–resistant bacteria. There is a search for a totally different kind of antibiotic, not sure how close to success that is.

Then again, the old bugs brought back as the tundra thaws are not going to be superbugs I guess.

lee wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 5:56pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 4:47pm: But do we need to add anthrax and smallpox to present vaccinations? It makes sense to reintroduce them t affected areas. Not worldwide. ;)

Where are the affected areas for smallpox?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:32pm:

I can see smallpox making a return, polio maybe and anthrax as already stated.

Just out of interest, how will smallpox make a return?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:02am:

Gordon wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:30pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:18pm: With airtravel common that may not be enough. Spanish flu, that in 1919 killed more people than WWI could also come back. The majority of deaths were due to secondary bacterial infections and pneumonia, which can be treated today. Ah, sorry, didn’t see your post before. Do you have a link for me to read up? But today, following decades of overprescription of antibiotics we have superbugs, antibiotic–resistant bacteria. There is a search for a totally different kind of antibiotic, not sure how close to success that is. Then again, the old bugs brought back as the tundra thaws are not going to be superbugs I guess.

Just Google why was Spanish flu so deadly or something like that.

At present the bacteria that get into your lungs aren't antibiotic resistant and with modern  respiratory support many more would survive.

I'm not saying that a flu pandemic won't have a huge death toll but it's not an extinction event :)

It seems there are patches of tundra containing some of these old diseases. When they thaw the disease organisms could be blown about including to human settlements.

There was the case of the anthrax–riddled deer, died and the carcass frozen in the 40s, melted out recently and the anthrax spores got spread.

Don’t want to be “alarmist”  ::) about it but maybe we need vaccinations for some of these nasties? Smallpox is one said to be one such disease that could return and we have no vaccinations at all about it.

Gordon wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:02am: Gordon wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:30pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:18pm: With airtravel common that may not be enough. Spanish flu, that in 1919 killed more people than WWI could also come back. The majority of deaths were due to secondary bacterial infections and pneumonia, which can be treated today. Ah, sorry, didn’t see your post before. Do you have a link for me to read up? But today, following decades of overprescription of antibiotics we have superbugs, antibiotic–resistant bacteria. There is a search for a totally different kind of antibiotic, not sure how close to success that is. Then again, the old bugs brought back as the tundra thaws are not going to be superbugs I guess. Just Google why was Spanish flu so deadly or something like that. At present the bacteria that get into your lungs aren't antibiotic resistant and with modern  respiratory support many more would survive. I'm not saying that a flu pandemic won't have a huge death toll but it's not an extinction event :)

Wasn’t talking about extinction events  :)

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

It seems there are patches of tundra containing some of these old diseases. When they thaw the disease organisms could be blown about including to human settlements. There was the case of the anthrax–riddled deer, died and the carcass frozen in the 40s, melted out recently and the anthrax spores got spread. Don’t want to be “alarmist”  ::) about it but maybe we need vaccinations for some of these nasties? Smallpox is one said to be one such disease that could return and we have no vaccinations at all about it.

Again, I wonder how smallpox could return since its completely different from anthrax. I can buy anthrax coming back, but not smallpox unless in one event.

Sounds like I need to do some research  :) But I did see smallpox mentioned as an old disease that could come back.

But will check and report back.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

Sounds like I need to do some research  :) But I did see smallpox mentioned as an old disease that could come back. But will check and report back.

Its difficult since essentially smallpox is a virus that only infects humans. There no zoonotic transmission.
There are two stocks of smallpox in the US and RUssia and both countries have resisted attempts to destroy the stocks.

However there has been some evidence to suggest that you could GE a smallpox virus

Found this article:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170504-there-are-diseases-hidden-in-ice-and-they-are-waking-up

People in Siberia who died from small pox late 1800s buried beneath the top layer of permafrost on the bank of a river—river flooded recently. . .

Smallpox is one said to be one such disease that could return and we have no vaccinations at all about it.


I was vaccinated for small pox

But you are an old fart like me (I presume?)

miketrees wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:29am:

Smallpox is one said to be one such disease that could return and we have no vaccinations at all about it. I was vaccinated for small pox

Oops missed that. Yes we have a vaccination for smallpox. Thats how it was declared eradicated.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:29am:

Found this article: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170504-there-are-diseases-hidden-in-ice-and-they-are-waking-up People in Siberia who died from small pox late 1800s buried beneath the top layer of permafrost on the bank of a river—river flooded recently. . .

But did the virus survive?

Seems only parts of the RNA were found. We may be lucky with this.

I cant remember when the smallpox vaccine was abandoned, probably the 80,s

From the article I linked above:


Quote:

Two years later, scientists managed to revive an 8-million-year-old bacterium that had been lying dormant in ice, beneath the surface of a glacier in the Beacon and Mullins valleys of Antarctica. In the same study, bacteria were also revived from ice that was over 100,000 years old. However, not all bacteria can come back to life after being frozen in permafrost. Anthrax bacteria can do so because they form spores, which are extremely hardy and can survive frozen for longer than a century. Other bacteria that can form spores, and so could survive in permafrost, include tetanus and Clostridium botulinum, the pathogen responsible for botulism: a rare illness that can cause paralysis and even prove fatal. Some fungi can also survive in permafrost for a long time. Some viruses can also survive for lengthy periods. In a 2014 study, a team led by Claverie revived two viruses that had been trapped in Siberian permafrost for 30,000 years. Known as Pithovirus sibericum and Mollivirus sibericum, they are both "giant viruses", because unlike most viruses they are so big they can be seen under a regular microscope. They were discovered 100ft underground in coastal tundra. Once they were revived, the viruses quickly became infectious. Fortunately for us, these particular viruses only infect single-celled amoebas. Still, the study suggests that other viruses, which really could infect humans, might be revived in the same way.

So botulism could cause problems.

miketrees wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:39am:

I cant remember when the smallpox vaccine was abandoned, probably the 80,s

In Australia, AFAICR it was never used becuase we relied on quarantine and screening. But yes it was abandoned elsewhere in the 80s generally. I believe some healthcare officials at the CDC still get vaccinated.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:25am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:21am: Sounds like I need to do some research  :) But I did see smallpox mentioned as an old disease that could come back. But will check and report back. Its difficult since essentially smallpox is a virus that only infects humans. There no zoonotic transmission. There are two stocks of smallpox in the US and RUssia and both countries have resisted attempts to destroy the stocks. However there has been some evidence to suggest that you could GE a smallpox virus

The smallpox vaccination is actually cow pox. Should be that hard to find and resurrect, but I doubt they got rid of the vaccination.

I got my childhood vaccinations in Holland, no idea if smallpox was included.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:49am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:25am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:21am: Sounds like I need to do some research  :) But I did see smallpox mentioned as an old disease that could come back. But will check and report back. Its difficult since essentially smallpox is a virus that only infects humans. There no zoonotic transmission. There are two stocks of smallpox in the US and RUssia and both countries have resisted attempts to destroy the stocks. However there has been some evidence to suggest that you could GE a smallpox virus The smallpox vaccination is actually cow pox. Should be that hard to find and resurrect, but I doubt they got rid of the vaccination.

Umm it used to be cow pox, later they used vaccinia virus, similar to cow pox and small pox.

.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:50am:

I got my childhood vaccinations in Holland, no idea if smallpox was included.

If it was before the 80s, probably.do you have a scar on your upper arm? Round in shape?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 10:51am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:49am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:25am: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 10:21am: Sounds like I need to do some research  :) But I did see smallpox mentioned as an old disease that could come back. But will check and report back. Its difficult since essentially smallpox is a virus that only infects humans. There no zoonotic transmission. There are two stocks of smallpox in the US and RUssia and both countries have resisted attempts to destroy the stocks. However there has been some evidence to suggest that you could GE a smallpox virus The smallpox vaccination is actually cow pox. Should be that hard to find and resurrect, but I doubt they got rid of the vaccination. Umm it used to be cow pox, later they used vaccinia virus, similar to cow pox and small pox.

Alls I know I got it 4 bloody time before the age of 18