EnergyAustralia expands hardship program as retailers prepare price hikes

Sydney Morning Herald
June 8 2017

Energy retailers are expanding their hardship programs, acutely aware their soon-to-be-announced price hikes – speculated to be as much as 30 per cent – could tip more households over the edge.   :(

EnergyAustralia has committed to a one-off $10 million injection into its hardship program, which usually runs at $1.5 million each year, saying that prices won't be easing and it needed to be prepared to help customers through the "difficult times" ahead.

While she couldn't talk specifics about the upcoming price hikes, managing director Catherine Tanna said it had to pass on the ballooning wholesale electricity costs.

"It's very complex, but wholesale prices have roughly doubled in the past year and they make up 25 per cent of the customers' energy bill, and it's one big reason, but there are many," she said.

She said the energy system, "with lights going out and prices going up", was not working as intended and that strengthening its hardship program was the first step in helping the most vulnerable.

"Our most vulnerable customers will need particular support, so it's about working with experts to put them in a more sustainable position, as we don't know with any certainty how long they will need help," she said.

Retailers in NSW and South Australia are rumoured to be preparing price hikes of up to 30 per cent, the Australian Financial Review reported, following the ACT Independent Competition and Regulatory Commission's announcement on Wednesday that average retail electricity prices in its market would rise by almost 20 per cent in July.   :o

ActewAGL chief Michael Costello described the hikes as "unprecedented" and blamed them on "10 years of uncertainty in national energy policy".

Electricity bills are going through the roof across the country, reflecting higher wholesale costs, the closure of large coal-fired power stations, including Hazelwood in Victoria, and growing demand for gas by LNG projects in Queensland, as well as reliability issues with some big generators.

Based on the average annual electricity bill of $2200 for a household on the Ausgrid network, NSW families could end up paying up to $660 more next financial year.   

St Vincent de Paul's Gavin Dufty warned families should "hold onto their seats and get ready for a bumpy ride" because, based on wholesale futures, "there doesn't seem to be much relief for at least 1.5 to 2 years".

"EnergyAustralia's announcement indicates to me that it's forecasting poorer cash flow, meaning people will be paying later because they're struggling, and forecasting a greater number of people being in severe energy distress and needing intense support," he said.

"Ultimately, this means there will be more disconnections and people will be going without this essential service."

He urged state government to adjust its concession frameworks and add "shock absorbers" to match the significant price increases.

"It's time for NSW to move to percentage-based concessions so that they automatically adjust, like we have in Victoria," he said.

NSW Energy Minister Don Harwin said he was concerned by households and businesses facing bill rises mid-year and reminded consumers of the rebate schemes and the recently expanded Energy Accounts Payment Assistance scheme available.

"We added a further 30 community welfare organisations that offer $50 EAPA vouchers to help struggling customers pay their gas or electricity bills," he said.

Mr Harwin said he was working with state and federal counterparts to achieve energy market reform through the Finkel Review, to be released on Friday.

"We are also currently finalising the largest energy efficiency package in the country, which could save consumers $17 billion by 2050, and put downward pressure on prices," he said.

"Our Draft Plan to Save NSW Energy and Money includes new measures to provide more efficient appliances, and other retrofits for homes and businesses."

There were 24,921 electricity customers on hardship programs in NSW between January and March this year, up 36 per cent on the June 2014 quarter figure, according to the Australian Energy Regulator.

bring back the carbon tax.

Oh dear rtards

Its time wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 8:25am:

Oh dear rtards

shall we notch that up as another libtard failure?

Turnbull is lucky the Trump circus and UK terrorism has distracted people's attention.

When oil prices rise again, electricity prices will rise further.

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

Its time wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 8:25am: Oh dear rtards shall we notch that up as another libtard failure?

We sure can John

Anyone get their 550 bucks yet ?

Follow Abbo's and Trumps's advice and GET RID of the useless White Elephant Greenie Windymills which double the cost of electricity.

Now wait for the Greenies' and Lefties' outbursts of indignation and...

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

Follow Abbo's and Trumps's advice and GET RID of the useless White Elephant Greenie Windymills which double the cost of electricity. Now wait for the Greenies' and Lefties' outbursts of indignation and...

did you say something?

Aren't us NSW people lucky because our liberal government promised us when they sold off our power assets that electricity would be cheaper in 2 years time. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

macman wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 10:40am:

Aren't us NSW people lucky because our liberal government promised us when they sold off our power assets that electricity would be cheaper in 2 years time. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Privitisation is about competition and cheaper prices  :-? Oh wait

This will lead to a rise in off-mains Solar+battery, and home power generation, whereby the cost of generating your own electricity is cheaper than mains electricity.

This could signify the death of the power grid.

More imported stuff from China is coming.

And Mr Smith quickly takes the bait and ILLEGALLY misquotes another poster.

The amusing thing is the Lefties don't have a clue what they are talking about. But that's why they adore Bull Shorten because he doesn't either.

Unforgiven,

until you or someone else has ACTUALLY tried to live long term disconnected from the mains then you are talking thru your hat.

What do you do when there is a week of overcast rainy climate and your Tesla batteries are flatter than a frog on a freeway ?

Get out the bicycle generator ? The Honda generator ?

You realize of course, being highly technically aware, that running your fridge or washing machine with low voltage can and will burn out the electric motor ? A brownout.

But these things don't bother the inner city Greenies connected to the mains and NBN internet feeding on the waffle on the Greenie Propaganda Web Sites.

Now wait for the Lefties to rush in and take the bait like hungry trout.

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 11:17am:

And Mr Smith quickly takes the bait and ILLEGALLY misquotes another poster. The amusing thing is the Lefties don't have a clue what they are talking about. But that's why they adore Bull Shorten because he doesn't either.

http://www.rickcalcutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Listening-Skills-Job-Search.jpg

Tesla putting charging points in shopping center carparks as orders rocket up , home solar installations rocketing up , liberal ideology losing appeal second by second , life is good  :)

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 11:24am:

Unforgiven, until you or someone else has ACTUALLY tried to live long term disconnected from the mains then you are talking thru your hat. What do you do when there is a week of overcast rainy climate and your Tesla batteries are flatter than a frog on a freeway ? Get out the bicycle generator ? The Honda generator ? You realize of course, being highly technically aware, that running your fridge or washing machine with low voltage can and will burn out the electric motor ? A brownout. But these things don't bother the inner city Greenies connected to the mains and NBN internet feeding on the waffle on the Greenie Propaganda Web Sites. Now wait for the Lefties to rush in and take the bait like hungry trout.

Modern electronic control systems don't allow the power supply system to operate at low voltage.

Juliar has very little understanding of power systems.

Furthermore, fuel cell technology is improving and microturbines as small as 3 kW are becoming commercially available.

When waste heat is used, the thermal efficiency of these systems starts to approach 80%.

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 11:17am:

And Mr Smith quickly takes the bait and ILLEGALLY misquotes another poster. The amusing thing is the Lefties don't have a clue what they are talking about. But that's why they adore Bull Shorten because he doesn't either.

huh?  can't hear you. Can you repeat that?

The paw soal Lefties are utterly beaten and are doing what all Lefties do then, become deaf or attack the poster who SPEAKS THE TRUTH.

The Imaginary nonsense being pushed to get the gullible to part with their money is amazing but their selling techniques certainly work as the uncomprehending Lefties here attest.

How a domestic civilized house will survive a week of overcast rainy climate in winter is no problem for the Lefties who have never tried to live thru this sort of thing.

But there is always the mains switch to bring back the essential backup power supply or there is always the Honda generator or at last resort there is always living like a caveman Greenie with a wood fire and kerosene lanterns and freezing your toes off.

And imagine the excitement when the out of warranty Tesla lithium battery on the wall of your house catches fire!!!! Your insurance policy will probably disallow your claim.

Thank the Lord Above the Lefties are not in control. And these are the types who adore Bull Shorten and vote for him.

In SA the Lefties' patience is being stretched as the useless white elephant Greenie windymills double the price of their electricity. When will SA have another blackout ? Must be one due soon.


Now wait for the Lefties' hysterical response!!!

More hyperbole from the resident nutter  :D

That's what happens when you have a dopey sheila at the helm....

"Oh, darling... now that you're home.. I forgot how to pay the electricity bill and manage our household accounts.. too much of a bother really and no woman should be reduced to such menial tasks these days as an unpaid house servant ..... good thing we've got gas, eh.. oh.. wait a minute..... did YOU pay the gas bill?  You're late!  WHAT?  The train carriages didn't fit the stations and you had to walk five miles?"

SavSuk gecko,

If the Greenie rubbish makes the power cost go thru the roof will the rain come in ?


LW,

my Goodness that is a big word - hyperbowl - whatever does it mean ? Is it Lefty cryptic speak and means WELFARE ?

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

SavSuk gecko, If the Greenie rubbish makes the power cost go thru the roof will the rain come in ?

Sounds like a myth to me.

Shall we ask Kari Byron?

SavSuk gecko,

what has happened to you ? You are almost civil ?

I like you better when you are spewing HATE and ILLEGALLY misquoting other posters.

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 1:35pm:

SavSuk gecko, what has happened to you ? You are almost civil ? I like you better when you are spewing HATE and ILLEGALLY misquoting other posters.

http://i.imgur.com/kcTjfLQ.gif

Unforgiven wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 11:37am:

juliar wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:24am: Unforgiven, until you or someone else has ACTUALLY tried to live long term disconnected from the mains then you are talking thru your hat. What do you do when there is a week of overcast rainy climate and your Tesla batteries are flatter than a frog on a freeway ? Get out the bicycle generator ? The Honda generator ? You realize of course, being highly technically aware, that running your fridge or washing machine with low voltage can and will burn out the electric motor ? A brownout. But these things don't bother the inner city Greenies connected to the mains and NBN internet feeding on the waffle on the Greenie Propaganda Web Sites. Now wait for the Lefties to rush in and take the bait like hungry trout. Modern electronic control systems don't allow the power supply system to operate at low voltage. Juliar has very little understanding of power systems. Furthermore, fuel cell technology is improving and microturbines as small as 3 kW are becoming commercially available. When waste heat is used, the thermal efficiency of these systems starts to approach 80%.

Once High Voltage DC distribution is set up over a wide geographic area Wind and Solar will be attractive. Not quite there cost wise for a big country but costs are coming down all the time.

660 bucks MORE per year , let's feel your wrath rtards , you were very vocal over 550  :D

Oh Gee now the rain is coming in thru the whole in the roof!!!!!

One nose croc means well but the very hi cost of HV DC would NEVER be justified for the tiny mouse power output of solar and windymills.

Can U just imagine the absolute absurdity of a very expensive HV DC system being connected to a tiny mouse power solar system at nite ?

Sounds like the fantasy stuff you see on the Greenie Propaganda Web sites.

Progressive countries all around the world are rushing into totally reliable Clean Coal Power Stations which provide endless cheap power for industry.

How many inner city Greenies have solar panels ?

Why is the silence deafening about a price rise ? Well apart from the resident nutter , what do the other rtards have to say ?

Privitisation works  :o

Carbon tax ... Bad
550 savings per year , awesome
Not delivered , still awesome
650 buck increase , ..... Silence

Bum sore rtards  ;)

If 550 bucks is bad , but you will get it back , what is 650 bucks , you won't get back ?

Unforgiven wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 11:37am:

juliar wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:24am: Unforgiven, until you or someone else has ACTUALLY tried to live long term disconnected from the mains then you are talking thru your hat. What do you do when there is a week of overcast rainy climate and your Tesla batteries are flatter than a frog on a freeway ? Get out the bicycle generator ? The Honda generator ? You realize of course, being highly technically aware, that running your fridge or washing machine with low voltage can and will burn out the electric motor ? A brownout. But these things don't bother the inner city Greenies connected to the mains and NBN internet feeding on the waffle on the Greenie Propaganda Web Sites. Now wait for the Lefties to rush in and take the bait like hungry trout. Modern electronic control systems don't allow the power supply system to operate at low voltage. Juliar has very little zero understanding of power systems. Fixed Furthermore, fuel cell technology is improving and microturbines as small as 3 kW are becoming commercially available. When waste heat is used, the thermal efficiency of these systems starts to approach 80%.

Domestic power prices are not even a blip on my radar.

It must be horrid to be a scummy leftwing person.

miketrees wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 7:27pm:

Domestic power prices are not even a blip on my radar. It must be horrid to be a scummy leftwing person.

That is one rtard that backed carbon pricing

Who's next ?

Enjoying your solar power Mike , I sure am  ;)

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 5:25pm:

Oh Gee now the rain is coming in thru the whole in the roof!!!!! One nose croc means well but the very hi cost of HV DC would NEVER be justified for the tiny mouse power output of solar and windymills. Doesn't everybody have just one nose. Can U just imagine the absolute absurdity of a very expensive HV DC system being connected to a tiny mouse power solar system at nite ? Sounds like the fantasy stuff you see on the Greenie Propaganda Web sites. Progressive countries all around the world are rushing into totally reliable Clean Coal Power Stations which provide endless cheap power for industry. How many inner city Greenies have solar panels ?

Give it up Jules. Your profound lack of knowledge in this area may be transparent to some but to experts like me it is obvious.

There are already a considerable number of very large HVDC installation around the globe including our own back yard. The 6400 MW system is around three times the capacity of the largest plant's production in this country.

The Basslink system linking Lou Yang to Tassie is over 400 kms carrying 500 MW. Hardly tiny. The world list is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects

Even the sheep shaggers over the ditch are outdoing us with the Benmore link running 600 kms carrying 735 MW.

As for cost, why run three cables when you can run two. Absolute immunity to reactive loads.

The good ol' sun lands 1100 W per m^2. A square km 1100 MW. Hardly mouse power. Distribution and wide area are the keys. It might be raining in Kickatinalong but not somewhere else.

JuLiar , if 550 bucks is a burden on families , what is 660 bucks ?

JuLiar , you were protesting a 15% rise in power prices in WA but are silent on a 30% rise for the rest of Australia , why is that  :) ?

JuLiar ? It isn't a hard question  :D

croc old chap all luverly propaganda stuff but you still don't seem to grasp that these HV DC systems are jolly expensive and are only used for high capacity power transfer.

A solar system or windymills are unreliable very low power and would NEVER justify the expense of a HV DC system.

There would not be a single windymill anywhere if the govt was not subsidizing them as they are a dead loss financially and most Wind Companies make a loss.

See it depends on whether you want a heavy duty power system that can support heavy industry like aluminium smelters or do you want a light weight system that can barely support simple residential with the risk of brownouts and blackouts that can damage home appliances.

You probably have not grasped that the Greenies want to close down ALL heavy industry in Australia because they know that their solar and windymills can NEVER support any sort of heavy industry.

Fortunately our responsible govt realizes Greenie rubbish is just a waste of time and are going for real power in the clean coal power stations the same as many other countries are doing.

And solar and wind are most definitely NOT free as it costs heaps to capture them together with a high maintenance cost and a short equipment life and very poor unreliable output to boot.

In the years to come there will be heaps of abandoned out of warranty dust covered solar panels and broken down windymills left to rust and rot as they are not worth repairing. This is already happening overseas.

Sorry to destroy your rosy Greenie fantasy with nasty FACTS. And SA has already proven all this as they teeter from blackout to blackout.

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 8:22pm:

croc old chap all luverly propaganda stuff but you still don't seem to grasp that these HV DC systems are jolly expensive and are only used for high capacity power transfer. A solar system or windymills are unreliable very low power and would NEVER justify the expense of a HV DC system. There would not be a single windymill anywhere if the govt was not subsidizing them as they are a dead loss financially and most Wind Companies make a loss. See it depends on whether you want a heavy duty power system that can support heavy industry like aluminium smelters or do you want a light weight system that can barely support simple residential with the risk of brownouts and blackouts that can damage home appliances. You probably have not grasped that the Greenies want to close down ALL heavy industry in Australia because they know that their solar and windymills can NEVER support any sort of heavy industry. Fortunately our responsible govt realizes Greenie rubbish is just a waste of time and are going for real power in the clean coal power stations the same as many other countries are doing. And solar and wind are most definitely NOT free as it costs heaps to capture them together with a high maintenance cost and a short equipment life and very poor unreliable output to boot. In the years to come there will be heaps of abandoned out of warranty dust covered solar panels and broken down windymills left to rust and rot as they are not worth repairing. This is already happening overseas. Sorry to destroy your rosy Greenie fantasy with nasty FACTS. And SA has already proven all this as they teeter from blackout to blackout.

You do know the aluminium smelters were shut down in NSW because coal couldn't keep up ? Of course you do , in an alternate reality  :D

If 550 bucks is a burden , what is 660 bucks juLiar ?

juliar wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 8:22pm:

croc old chap all luverly propaganda stuff but you still don't seem to grasp that these HV DC systems are jolly expensive and are only used for high capacity power transfer. Like I've already said, your ignorance and lack of knowledge is boundless. It is only the distribution network that is cost effective for high power transfers. The actual nodes can be located anywhere within reason along the network. It's DC, so there are no synchronisation issues. The actual network is not so expensive anyway. Two cables for every three as opposed to AC and thinner without the reactive losses. The expense is in the conversion from DC to AC out and AC to DC in. These can be located anywhere on the network at any size. You are truly laughable. A solar system or windymills are unreliable very low power and would NEVER justify the expense of a HV DC system. Only in the singular. Start thinking in terms of square kms at 1100 J per m^2 There would not be a single windymill anywhere if the govt was not subsidizing them as they are a dead loss financially and most Wind Companies make a loss. This is true. But only at the present. Sufficient investment and like every other technological achievement that has come before, it will improve. See it depends on whether you want a heavy duty power system that can support heavy industry like aluminium smelters or do you want a light weight system that can barely support simple residential with the risk of brownouts and blackouts that can damage home appliances. You probably have not grasped that the Greenies want to close down ALL heavy industry in Australia because they know that their solar and windymills can NEVER support any sort of heavy industry. I don't give a fukk about the greenies Fortunately our responsible govt realizes Greenie rubbish is just a waste of time and are going for real power in the clean coal power stations the same as many other countries are doing. And solar and wind are most definitely NOT free as it costs heaps to capture them together with a high maintenance cost and a short equipment life and very poor unreliable output to boot. Economies of scale is a concept you seem to struggle with. In the years to come there will be heaps of abandoned out of warranty dust covered solar panels and broken down windymills left to rust and rot as they are not worth repairing. This is already happening overseas. Nothing lasts forever. Even traditional power stations close when they reach end of life. Sorry to destroy your rosy Greenie fantasy with nasty FACTS. And SA has already proven all this as they teeter from blackout to blackout. Nothing fantastic or green at all. Just a simple belief in man's adaption and betterment of technology over time. You should try it some time or stay in the covered wagon days.

LW and the venerable croc who effortless plucks graphs from the ether seem non-plussed.

Don't worry I am sure that a bit more rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Lefty and Greenie Propaganda Sites will turn up something.

Gee I hope Electricity Bill doesn't hurt his head when he goes thru the roof!!! 

With climate so wet recently a hole in the roof is the last thing one wood need - gosh it might damage the solar panels!!!

Now how about a bit of sanity and reality about this subsidized Greenie rubbish.



Green Energy Not Fit for Purpose
VIV FORBES Tue 4 Feb 2014 02:27:28 pm 424 COMMENTS

Germany’s wind and solar power generation came to a standstill late last year. More than 23,000 wind turbines ran out of wind and most of the one million photovoltaic systems ran out of sunlight. For a whole week, coal nuclear and gas-powered plants generated an estimated 95 percent of Germany’s electricity.

Britain has 3,500 wind turbines, but during a period of extreme cold they produced just 1.8% of UK’s electricity. But, gluttons for punishment, politicians intend building more.

When electricity demand peaked at the height of the recent heatwave in Southern Australia, the total power output from the fleet of wind farms across Victoria and South Australia was almost zero. Solar panels worked at their peak for a short time during the heat of the afternoon, but waned as the sun moved on and smokiness increased.

At dinner time on any still, cold winter night, when all suburban stoves, lights, TV’s and heaters need power, solar panels sit in the dark, powerless. And the idle wind turbines are probably drawing power from the grid for heating, lubrication, electro-magnets, hydraulics and start-up.

Despite the expenditure of trillions of dollars on conferences, green energy subsidies, research, carbon taxes, carbon trading, solar and wind subsidies, plant construction, additional transmission lines and back-up power, wind and solar only produce a derisory share of world energy (“zero” to the nearest whole number).

We keep hearing how “research” will solve the key green energy problems, but no amount of research can alter the fact that solar energy will always be variable, intermittent and dilute.

Even if solar panels collected 100% of the solar energy that fell on them, and no dust or snow ever covered the panels, the output is always variable and intermittent, with the rise and fall of the sun, the long night and the variable clouds, snow and dust.

Similarly the wind is variable, often too weak, sometimes too strong, and even when it is just right, there may be no demand for that surge of power. Germany has 23,000 wind turbines – they produce an average of about 17% of their installed capacity; on some days, they harvest nothing except subsidies (and they are good at that).

And crucially, both wind and solar energy are very dilute, so large areas of land are required to collect significant energy and to build the spider-web of roads and transmission lines required to connect to each other and to the grid.

Solar panels rob green plants underneath of their sunlight.

Wind turbines annoy neighbours with their noise, devalue their properties and slice up eagles, bats and migrating birds. These are very significant human and environmental costs never mentioned by green energy disciples and promoters.

No amount of research can change the key intermittent and dilute nature of green energy. We should stop wasting ever-increasing amounts of money on pointless research.

Even if we invented magic batteries (small with massive capacity, low cost, no energy losses and everlasting life), the green energy plants would still need to spend over 60% of the energy they generate to charge the batteries in order to produce 24/7 power.

There are places when green energy is appropriate and useful, and people should be free to use it at their own expense. But for grid power, it is not fit-for-purpose.

All of this explains why Green Germany is now using more coal than it did in 2009 and its power supply is more expensive and less reliable.

http://pickeringpost.com/story/green-energy-not-fit-for-purpose/2701


http://christianblanchard.businesscatalyst.com/images/cinemagraphy/01.gif

Still waiting for Mr Abbott's $550 a year better off.   :(

The answer is NOT blowin' in the wind.  Viv blows the Greenie farce out the door.

https://grammalynnfinnhazelgershenson.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/alice-in-wonderland-hd-photos-7.jpg
Being Powered 100% By Wind & Solar = 100% Total Greenie Fantasy



Blowing Our Dollars in the Wind
VIV FORBES Wed 16 Jul 2014 07:26:47 pm 284 COMMENTS

Wind energy produces costly, intermittent, unpredictable electricity. But Government subsidies and mandates have encouraged a massive gamble on wind investments in Australia - over $7 billion has already been spent and another $30 billion is proposed. This expenditure is justified by the claim that by using wind energy there will be less carbon dioxide emitted to the atmosphere which will help to prevent dangerous global warming.

Incredibly, this claim is not supported by any credible cost-benefit analysis - a searching enquiry is well overdue. Here is a summary of things that should be included in the analysis.

Firstly, no one knows how much global warming is related to carbon dioxide and how much is due to natural variability. However, the historical record shows that carbon dioxide it is not the most important factor, and no one knows whether climate feedbacks are positive or negative. Also, in many ways, the biosphere and humanity would benefit from more warmth, carbon dioxide and moisture in the atmosphere.

However, let’s assume that reducing man’s production of carbon dioxide is a sensible goal and consider whether wind power is likely to achieve it. To do this we need to look at the whole life cycle of a wind tower.

Wind turbines are not just big simple windmills – they are massive complex machines whose manufacture and construction consume much energy and many expensive materials.  These include steel for the tower, concrete for the footings, fibre glass for the nacelle, rare metals for the electro-magnets, steel and copper for the machinery, high quality lubricating oils for the gears, fibre glass or aluminium for the blades, titanium and other materials for weather-proof paints, copper, aluminium and steel for the transmission lines and support towers, and gravel for the access roads.

There is a long production chain for each of these materials. Mining and mineral extraction rely on diesel power for mobile equipment and electrical power for haulage, hoisting, crushing, grinding, milling, smelting, refining. These processes need 24/7 reliable electric power which, in Australia, is most likely to come from coal.

These raw materials then have to be transported to many specialised manufacturing plants, again using large quantities of energy, generating more carbon dioxide.

Then comes the construction phase, starting with building a network of access roads, clearance of transmission routes, and excavation of the massive footings for the towers. Almost all of this energy will come from diesel fuel, with increased production of carbon dioxide. Moreover, every bit of land cleared results in the production of carbon dioxide as the plant material dozed out of the way rots or is burnt, and the exposed soil loses its humus to oxidation.

Once the turbine starts operating, the many towers, transmission lines and access roads need more maintenance and repair than a traditional power plant that produces concentrated energy from one small plot of land using a small number of huge, well-tested, well protected machines. Turbines usually operate in windy, exposed, isolated locations. Blades need to be cleaned using large specialised cranes; towers and machinery need regular inspection and maintenance; and mobile equipment and manpower needs to be on standby for lightning strikes, fires or accidents. All of these activities require diesel powered equipment which produces more carbon dioxide.

Even when they do produce energy, wind towers often produce it at time when demand is low - at night for example. There is no benefit in this unwanted production, but it is usually counted as saving carbon fuels.

Every wind farm also needs backup power to cover the +65% of wind generating capacity that is lost because the wind is not blowing, or blowing such a gale that the turbines have to shut down.

In Australia, most backup is provided by coal or gas plants which are forced to operate intermittently to offset the erratic winds. Coal plants and many gas plants cannot switch on and off quickly but must maintain steam pressure and “spinning reserve” in order to swing in quickly when the fickle wind drops. This causes grid instability and increases the carbon dioxide produced per unit of electricity. This waste should be debited to the wind farm that caused it.

Wind turbines also consume energy from the grid when they are idle - for lubrication, heating, cooling, lights, metering, hydraulic brakes, energising the electro-magnets, even to keep the blades turning lazily (to prevent warping) and to maintain line voltage when there is no wind. A one-month study of the Wonthaggi wind farm in Australia found that the facility consumed more electricity than it produced for 16% of the period studied. A detailed study in USA showed that 8.3% of total wind energy produced was consumed by the towers themselves. This is not usually counted in the carbon equation.

The too good to miss rest continues overleaf

The too good to miss rest continues...

Wind turbines also consume energy from the grid when they are idle - for lubrication, heating, cooling, lights, metering, hydraulic brakes, energising the electro-magnets, even to keep the blades turning lazily (to prevent warping) and to maintain line voltage when there is no wind. A one-month study of the Wonthaggi wind farm in Australia found that the facility consumed more electricity than it produced for 16% of the period studied. A detailed study in USA showed that 8.3% of total wind energy produced was consumed by the towers themselves. This is not usually counted in the carbon equation.

The service life of wind towers is far shorter than traditional power plants. Already many European wind farms have reached the end of their life and contractors are now gearing up for a new boom in the wind farm demolition and scrap removal business. This phase is likely to pose dangers for the environment and require much diesel powered equipment producing yet more carbon dioxide.

Most estimates of carbon dioxide “saved” by using wind power look solely at the carbon dioxide that would be produced by a coal-fired station producing the rated capacity of the wind turbine. They generally ignore all the other ways in which wind power increases carbon energy usage, and they ignore the fact that wind farms seldom produce name-plate capacity.

When all the above factors are taken into account over the life of the wind turbine, only a very few turbines in good wind locations are likely to save any carbon dioxide. Most will be either break-even or carbon-negative - the massive investment in wind may achieve zero climate “benefits” at great cost.

Entrepreneurs or consumers who choose wind power should be free to do so but taxpayers and electricity consumers should not be forced to subsidise their choices for questionable reasons. People who claim climate sainthood for wind energy should be required to prove this by detailed life-of-project analysis before getting legislative support and subsidies.

Otherwise we are just blowing our dollars in the wind.


http://pickeringpost.com/story/blowing-our-dollars-in-the-wind/3538



https://mothersagainstwindturbines.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/d0196-_users_viv_appdata_local_temp_tmpf05_files_image002.jpg

When I went to school 660 was more than 550 , rtards with the exception of the resident loony why are you dead silent on the increase ? Didn't the conalition say the cost of living would be lower in their tenure ?

Rtards ?

LW,

is showing how to do Lefty numbers.  Reminds one of Swanny's surpluses!!!

With the exception of Oz politics resident loony , why are the rtards happy to pay 660 bucks but weren't happy to pay 550 ?

Over to you rtards

Why is it ok for our government ( both libs and labor )too sell coal and gas too asian countries.  Even build ports and railroads  for them but Australians aren't  allowed  to use our own countries  natural  wealth  for our  benefit?

I mean ...why can't  we buy our own gas and coal at the bargain  prices we sell it overseas?

When they burn our coal in asia does that affect  a different  environment  or what ?

Why can't  we produce  cheap electricity?

Why can we support  other countries  but not our own citizens?

The bribes/ donations to  both the libs and labs by Chinese  business  I  guess explains why :(

Francis

It is the fowl Greenies who have got Shorty in a death grip.

The local Greenies are funded and controlled by similar ragbag groups overseas and the local Greenies ' international role is to STOP ALL DEVELOPMENT HERE IN AUSTRALIA.

The local Greenies have weevilled their way into govt and govt support groups and have influenced the govt with their jaundiced views.

What you are complaining about is a result of this weevilling.

The delusion with the useless white elephant renewable rubbish is a direct result of the Greenies fowl influence and their hidden agenda is to sabotage Australia's power supply to close down all heavy industry in Australia.

The govt is in a bind because of the feral infested Senate which won't pass the required legislation.

The current Finkel Review is highly suspect as it appears to be just a tax on carbon.

Obviously Australia should proceed with upgrading our coal power stations to Clean Coal operating to get a secure cheap reliable supply of energy.

Because of our unlimited supply of thermal coal this is the very obvious energy supply to generate electricity.


Now wait for the howls of protests from my 2 TROLLS.

And talking of the feral infested Senate constipating Australia's progress.



Senate crossbench split over energy review
Published: 10:10 am, Tuesday, 13 June 2017

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7c/a8/91/7ca89146c7b5d434c9549a6934168612.gif
The Senate crossbench is split over a proposed clean energy target and other measures proposed in a review of Australia's electricity generation sector.

The review by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel outlined a technology neutral, incentive driven framework towards a lower emissions trajectory, with the specific target to be decided by parliament.

'Coal is still going to be there. We've still got a hell of a lot of it,' crossbench senator Derryn Hinch told reporters in Canberra on Tuesday.

Coal would continue to play a part of Australia's energy mix for at least the next 20 to 30 years and he's confident the government and opposition can find agreement on the future of renewables.

Liberal Democratic senator David Leyonhjelm is less optimistic about the future of coal.

'At least it's not openly anti-coal,' he said of the review.

'Although I think the underlying assumption is that coal is finished, which is false.'

Senator Leyonhjelm said a clean energy target still counted as a tax on coal and that the future of fossil fuels depended on the emissions intensity baseline being set high enough to allow 'clean coal' solutions.

'I don't know how they're going to keep coal in the race if they keep the baseline too low,' he said.

One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts claimed this party was the only party for cheap energy.

'What the Finkel report does not discuss is that we have been put in this position because of regulation, excessive regulation,' he said.

'This is nothing more than a carbon dioxide tax.'

Greens senator Nick McKim said while he was all for focusing on lower emissions as an end goal, clean coal and renewable energy were still mutually exclusive.

'The idea that coal in any way can be associated with clean energy is simply fantasy,' he said.

AAP

- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/federal/2017/06/13/senate-crossbench-split-over-energy-review.html#sthash.2Ms9IWzK.dpuf

Rhetoric , Cost of living will always be lower under conalition

https://youtu.be/r5X8qDDMC-o

Bills set to rise 660 bucks

Oh dear rtards

Viv buckets the gormless hypocrite fowl Greenies trying to sabotage Australia's power system.




Never-Ending Green Disasters
VIV FORBES Wed 25 Jun 2014 09:03:33 am 329 COMMENTS

http://pickeringpost.com/kyola/resources/articles/windmill-on-fire.jpg
More taxpayers' money goes up in smoke

Newton’s 3rd law of motion, if applied to bureaucracy, would state: “Whenever politicians attempt to force change on a market, the long-term results will be equal and opposite to those intended”.This law explains the never-ending Green energy policy disasters.

Greens have long pretended to be guardians of wild natural places, but their legislative promotion of ethanol biofuel has resulted in massive clearance of tropical forests for palm oil, sugar cane and soy beans. 

Their policies have also managed to covert cheap food into expensive motor fuel and degraded land devoted to bush, pastures or crops into mono-cultures of corn for bio-fuel. This has wasted water, increased world hunger and corrupted the political process for zero climate benefits.

Greens also pretend to be protectors of wildlife and habitat but their force-feeding of wind power has uglified wild places and disturbed peaceful neighbourhoods with noisy windmills and networks of access roads and transmission lines.

These whirling bird-choppers kill thousands of raptors and bats without attracting the penalties that would be applied heavily to any other energy producers - all this damage to produce trivial amounts of intermittent, expensive and blackout-prone electricity supplies.

Greens have long waged a vicious war on coal, but their parallel war on nuclear power and the predictably intermittent performance of wind/solar energy has forced power generators to turn to hydro-carbon gases to backup green power.

But Greens have also made war on shale-gas fracking – this has left countries like Germany with no option but to return to reliable economical coal, or increase their usage of Russian gas and French nuclear power.

Their war on coal has lifted world coal usage to a 44 year high.

Greens also say they support renewable energy, but they oppose any expansion of hydro-power, the best renewable energy option.

For example, they scuppered the Gordon-below-Franklin hydro-electric project, which would have given Tasmania everlasting cheap green electricity.

But they never mention their awkward secret - the Basslink under-sea cable goes to Loy Yang power station in Victoria and allows Tasmania to import coal-powered electricity from the mainland.

Robbie Burns warned us over 200 years ago:
"The best laid schemes of Mice and Men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!"

http://pickeringpost.com/story/never-ending-green-disasters/3435


http://www.thepressproject.gr/photos/uk-swedish-academics-study-wind-turbine-fire-incidents1414051673.jpg
Geez they really burn up

juliar wrote on Jun 14^th, 2017 at 8:46am:

Viv buckets the gormless hypocrite fowl Greenies trying to sabotage Australia's power system. Never-Ending Green Disasters VIV FORBES Wed 25 Jun 2014 09:03:33 am 329 COMMENTS More taxpayers' money goes up in smoke Newton’s 3rd law of motion, if applied to bureaucracy, would state: “Whenever politicians attempt to force change on a market, the long-term results will be equal and opposite to those intended”.This law explains the never-ending Green energy policy disasters. Greens have long pretended to be guardians of wild natural places, but their legislative promotion of ethanol biofuel has resulted in massive clearance of tropical forests for palm oil, sugar cane and soy beans.  Their policies have also managed to covert cheap food into expensive motor fuel and degraded land devoted to bush, pastures or crops into mono-cultures of corn for bio-fuel. This has wasted water, increased world hunger and corrupted the political process for zero climate benefits. Greens also pretend to be protectors of wildlife and habitat but their force-feeding of wind power has uglified wild places and disturbed peaceful neighbourhoods with noisy windmills and networks of access roads and transmission lines. These whirling bird-choppers kill thousands of raptors and bats without attracting the penalties that would be applied heavily to any other energy producers - all this damage to produce trivial amounts of intermittent, expensive and blackout-prone electricity supplies. Greens have long waged a vicious war on coal, but their parallel war on nuclear power and the predictably intermittent performance of wind/solar energy has forced power generators to turn to hydro-carbon gases to backup green power. But Greens have also made war on shale-gas fracking – this has left countries like Germany with no option but to return to reliable economical coal, or increase their usage of Russian gas and French nuclear power. Their war on coal has lifted world coal usage to a 44 year high. Greens also say they support renewable energy, but they oppose any expansion of hydro-power, the best renewable energy option. For example, they scuppered the Gordon-below-Franklin hydro-electric project, which would have given Tasmania everlasting cheap green electricity. But they never mention their awkward secret - the Basslink under-sea cable goes to Loy Yang power station in Victoria and allows Tasmania to import coal-powered electricity from the mainland. Robbie Burns warned us over 200 years ago: "The best laid schemes of Mice and Men Gang aft agley, An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain, For promis'd joy!" http://pikeringpost.com/story/never-ending-green-disasters/3435 Geez they really burn up

It's not looking very good for you is it rtards , pitiful growth , record high underemployment, zero wage growth and now higher cost of living

Deary deary me , the election is going to be a bloodbath  :)

EnergyAustralia has announced electricity price rises of close to 20 per cent for residential and business customers in both South Australia and New South Wales from July 1.

The combined electricity and gas bill of an average household in SA would increase by $470 a year in SA and $379 a year in NSW.

EnergyAustralia said electricity price hikes in Queensland would be contained to an average 7.3 per cent, due mainly to the Queensland Government's direction to the State Government-owned distribution network to keep prices low.

A third major east coast energy retailer, Origin Energy, is expected to follow suit in coming days.


Oh dear rtards

https://youtu.be/vR7j5VNpu3s

Are gas prices up or down talkbull?

Its time wrote on Jun 9^th, 2017 at 7:00pm:

Carbon tax ... Bad 550 savings per year , awesome Not delivered , still awesome 650 buck increase , ..... Silence

Our taxes subsidizing the fossil fuel industry - wonderful.

What do we want? 4 brand new coal-fired  power plants. When do we want it? Now.

Hopefully, the government can kick in a few billion.

Re: Electricity Bills Are Going Through The Roof - which is where the solar panels are.

The Finkel report is unsurprisingly unscientific with the cost analysis.

We should harness the rivers more and build high quality coal fired power stations. Burning coal is nothing but the releasing of the solar power those dead trees have captured. Coal IS solar.  Coal is nature's battery for solar power.

What is the Libs energy policy ? Does anybody know ?

Frank wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

Re: Electricity Bills Are Going Through The Roof - which is where the solar panels are. The Finkel report is unsurprisingly unscientific with the cost analysis. We should harness the rivers more and build high quality coal fired power stations. Burning coal is nothing but the releasing of the solar power those dead trees have captured. Coal IS solar.  Coal is nature's battery for solar power.

You heard it here first, leftards. Burning coal is as harmless as sunbathing.

Believe it or not, the old boy was once sunshine too.

Its time wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 6:32pm:

What is the Libs energy policy ? Does anybody know ?

Oh, nothing much. Sit around complaining about the sight of wind farms, then when prices finally go through the roof, slip the suppliers a few billion on the quiet.

We should have a few shiny new coal fired generators in about 20 years time. By then, manufacturing powerhouse, Germany, should be 100% renewable, up from 72% in 2014.

Inferior culture, innit.

Its time wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 7:27am:

EnergyAustralia has announced electricity price rises of close to 20 per cent for residential and business customers in both South Australia and New South Wales from July 1. The combined electricity and gas bill of an average household in SA would increase by $470 a year in SA and $379 a year in NSW. EnergyAustralia said electricity price hikes in Queensland would be contained to an average 7.3 per cent, due mainly to the Queensland Government's direction to the State Government-owned distribution network to keep prices low. A third major east coast energy retailer, Origin Energy, is expected to follow suit in coming days. Oh dear rtards

I bet the prices go up in Victoria too -
ever since they closed Hazelwood.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 7:06pm:

Its time wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 7:27am: EnergyAustralia has announced electricity price rises of close to 20 per cent for residential and business customers in both South Australia and New South Wales from July 1. The combined electricity and gas bill of an average household in SA would increase by $470 a year in SA and $379 a year in NSW. EnergyAustralia said electricity price hikes in Queensland would be contained to an average 7.3 per cent, due mainly to the Queensland Government's direction to the State Government-owned distribution network to keep prices low. A third major east coast energy retailer, Origin Energy, is expected to follow suit in coming days. Oh dear rtards I bet the prices go up in Victoria too - ever since they closed Hazelwood.

They will be going up nation wide , if you don't have rooftop solar I strongly suggest you investigate , wholesale power prices have doubled in libtards tenure and with absolutely no plan on what to do prices will rocket up even further

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 6:53pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 5:49pm: Re: Electricity Bills Are Going Through The Roof - which is where the solar panels are. The Finkel report is unsurprisingly unscientific with the cost analysis. We should harness the rivers more and build high quality coal fired power stations. Burning coal is nothing but the releasing of the solar power those dead trees have captured. Coal IS solar.  Coal is nature's battery for solar power. You heard it here first, leftards. Burning coal is as harmless as sunbathing. Believe it or not, the old boy was once sunshine too.

It is.
Coal is sun's energy captured and stored.

Not evil. It is natural energy.
Disprove it.

Its time wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 7:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 7:06pm: Its time wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 7:27am: EnergyAustralia has announced electricity price rises of close to 20 per cent for residential and business customers in both South Australia and New South Wales from July 1. The combined electricity and gas bill of an average household in SA would increase by $470 a year in SA and $379 a year in NSW. EnergyAustralia said electricity price hikes in Queensland would be contained to an average 7.3 per cent, due mainly to the Queensland Government's direction to the State Government-owned distribution network to keep prices low. A third major east coast energy retailer, Origin Energy, is expected to follow suit in coming days. Oh dear rtards I bet the prices go up in Victoria too - ever since they closed Hazelwood. They will be going up nation wide , if you don't have rooftop solar I strongly suggest you investigate , wholesale power prices have doubled in libtards tenure and with absolutely no plan on what to do prices will rocket up even further

The Govt.  sold Hazelwood to a French company that charged maximum prices while
running the place into the ground.
When they closed it -
it would have required $750 M to repair it.

This is the matrix that we live in -
essential services sold off for a quick profit
& we all end up paying more.

Frank wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 7:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 6:53pm: Frank wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 5:49pm: Re: Electricity Bills Are Going Through The Roof - which is where the solar panels are. The Finkel report is unsurprisingly unscientific with the cost analysis. We should harness the rivers more and build high quality coal fired power stations. Burning coal is nothing but the releasing of the solar power those dead trees have captured. Coal IS solar.  Coal is nature's battery for solar power. You heard it here first, leftards. Burning coal is as harmless as sunbathing. Believe it or not, the old boy was once sunshine too. It is. Coal is sun's energy captured and stored. Not evil. It is natural energy. Disprove it.

A lump of coal is a beautiful thing, old chap, but have you ever tried burning one?

One day, we'll ship your remains off to the kryogenic lab in Beijing. We'll give your fossilised brain a face mask for protection.

What is Liberals plan ?  :-/

Its time wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 3:34pm:

https://youtu.be/vR7j5VNpu3s Are gas prices up or down talkbull?

:-/

LW seems to have exhausted the cranium attic of ideas.

LW Sustagen is supposed to boost your vitality. Or maybe all you need is a good reboot to clear the cranium.

Karnal hasn't been to Deutschland lately.

What is libtards plan ? Just waiting to see what happens are they?

LW is grasping at straws blowin' in the wind.

Even LW probably suspects that Labor's 50% renewables is simply unsustainable rubbish that is being forced by the evil Greenies.

Mal is balancing reality with fantasy.

Mal knows simple solar and windymills by themselves are as useless as boots on a tiger snake.

Libs want to boost export industry here in Australia and this can ONLY be done with internationally competitive power prices.

The basic problem with renewable rubbish is that there MUST ALWAYS be a backup power supply for the many times that the sun and wind stop and so the cost of generating power DOUBLES which is VERY evident in basket case 4th world SA.

Hydro is an excellent power source but sites for dams are limited by terrain. Mal's idea of a water battery in the Snowy has merit as it has the size and capacity to make it worthwhile.

But to use renewables to feed it brings up the problem of the very small output from them and so a vast number of unreliable high maintenance short life renewables would be required spread out on a vast area of treeless land.

For Aust with its vast coal reserves coal is the very obvious source of energy and clean coal generators take out the sulfur and nitrous pollution. Harmless essential to life on Earth CO₂ can be safely released into the atmosphere to boost food crops and green the deserts.

Clean coal power stations are going up all around the world and Aust CANNOT afford to be left behind or we will import everything from China and overseas.

Did someone say clean coal?.   [smiley=bath.gif] 

Its the greatest  failure  of any Western  government  in recent  memory.

Australians  can no longer  afford  electricity. 

Where is x labor premier  Peter Beattie?  He said electricity  would be cheaper  once privatized?

God help anyone  in small  business  trying  to keep  the lights on and a fridge  running.

Goodbye Malcom.  Goodbye.

Still waiting for Tony Abbotts $550 a year better off.   :(

whiteknight wrote on Jun 19^th, 2017 at 7:31pm:

Still waiting for Tony Abbotts $550 a year better off.   :(

What a coincidence so is everyone am I  :-/