Authored by Jacob Hornberger via The Future of Freedom Foundation,

Just consider the accusations that have been leveled at the president:
1.He has betrayed the Constitution, which he swore to uphold.
2.He has committed treason by befriending Russia and other enemies of America.
3.He has subjugated America’s interests to Moscow.
4.He has been caught in fantastic lies to the American people, including personal ones, like his previous marriage and divorce.

President Donald Trump?

No, President John F. Kennedy.

What lots of Americans don’t realize, because it was kept secret from them for so long, is that what Trump has been enduring from the national-security establishment, the mainstream press, and the American right-wing for his outreach to, or “collusion with,” Russia pales in comparison to what Kennedy had to endure for committing the heinous “crime” of reaching out to Russia and the rest of the Soviet Union in a spirit of peace and
friendship.

They hated him for it. They abused him. They insulted him. They belittled him. They called him naïve. They said he was a traitor.

All of the nasties listed above, plus more, were contained in an advertisement and a flier that appeared in Dallas on the morning of November 22, 1963, the day that Kennedy was assassinated.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/05/14/20170518_JFK1.jpg

Ever since then, some people have tried to make it seem like the advertisement and flier expressed only the feelings of extreme right-wingers in Dallas. That’s nonsense. They expressed the deeply held convictions of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, the conservative movement, and many people within the mainstream media and Washington establishment.

In June 1963, Kennedy threw down the gauntlet in a speech he delivered at American University, now entitled the “Peace Speech.” It was one of the most remarkable speeches ever delivered by an American president. It was broadcast all across the communist Soviet Union, the first time that had ever been done.

In the speech, Kennedy announced that he was bringing an end to the Cold War and the mindset of hostility toward Russia and the rest of the Soviet Union that the U.S. national-security establishment had inculcated in the minds of the American people ever since the end of World War II.

It was a radical notion and, as Kennedy well understood, a very dangerous one insofar as he was concerned. The Cold War against America’s World War II partner and ally had been used to convert the United States from a limited-government republic to a national-security state, one consisting of a vast, permanent military establishment, the CIA, and the NSA, along with their broad array of totalitarian-like powers, such as assassination, regime change, coups, invasions, torture, surveillance, and the like. Everyone was convinced that the Cold War — and the so-called threat from the international communist conspiracy that was supposedly based in Russia — would last forever, which would naturally mean permanent and ever-increasing largess for what Kennedy’s predecessor, President Dwight Eisenhower, had  called the “military-industrial complex.”

Suddenly, Kennedy was upending the Cold War apple cart by threatening to establish a relationship of friendship and peaceful coexistence with Russia, the rest of the Soviet Union, and Cuba.

Kennedy knew full well that his actions were considered by some to be a grave threat to “national security.” After all, don’t forget that it was Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that got him ousted from power by the CIA and presumably targeted for assassination as part of that regime-change operation. It was Cuban leader Fidel Castro’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that made him the target of Pentagon and CIA regime-change operations, including through invasion, assassination, and sanctions. It was Congo leader’s Patrice Lamumba’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that got him targeted for assassination by the CIA. It would be Chilean President Salvador Allende’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that got him targeted in a CIA-instigated coup in Chile that resulted in Allende’s death.

Kennedy wasn’t dumb. He knew what he was up against. He had heard Eisenhower warn the American people in his Farewell Address about the dangers to their freedom and democratic way of life posed by the military establishment. After Kennedy had read the novel Seven Days in May, which posited the danger of a military coup in America, he asked friends in Hollywood to make it into a movie to serve as a warning to the American people. In the midst of the Cuban Missile Crisis, when the Pentagon and the CIA were exerting extreme pressure on Kennedy to bomb and invade Cuba, his brother Bobby told a Soviet official with whom he was negotiating that the president was under a severe threat of being ousted in a coup. And, of course, Kennedy was fully mindful of what had happened to Arbenz, Lamumba, and Castro for doing what Kennedy was now doing — reaching out to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship.

In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.”

Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground.

Kennedy mobilized public opinion to overcome fierce opposition in the military, CIA, Congress, and the Washington establishment to secure passage of his Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

He then ordered a partial withdrawal of troops from Vietnam, and told close aides that he would order a complete pull-out after winning the 1964 election. In the eyes of the U.S. national-security establishment, leaving Vietnam subject to a communist takeover would pose a grave threat to national security here in the United States.

Worst of all, from the standpoint of the national-security establishment, Kennedy began secret personal negotiations with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Cuban leader Fidel Castro to bring an end to America’s Cold War against them. That was considered to be a grave threat to “national security” as well as a grave threat to all the military and intelligence largess that depended on the Cold War.

By this time, Kennedy’s war with the national-security establishment was in full swing. He had already vowed to tear the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds after its perfidious conduct in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. By this time, he had also lost all confidence in the military after it proposed an all-out surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union, much as Japan had done at Pearl Harbor, after the infamous plan known as Operation Northwoods, which proposed terrorist attacks and plane hijackings carried out by U.S. agents posing as Cuban communists, so as to provide a pretext for invading Cuba, and after the Cuban Missile Crisis, when the military establishment accused him of appeasement and treason for agreeing not to ever invade Cuba again.

What Kennedy didn’t know was that his “secret” negotiations with the Soviet and Cuban communists weren’t so secret after all. As it turns out, it was a virtual certainty that the CIA (or NSA) was listening in on telephone conversations of Cuban officials at the UN in New York City, much as the CIA and NSA still do today, during which they would have learned what the president was secretly doing behind their backs.

Kennedy’s feelings toward the people who were calling him a traitor for befriending Moscow and other “enemies” of America? In response to the things that were said in that advertisement and flier about him being a traitor for befriending Russia, he told his wife Jackie on the morning he was assassinated: “We are heading into nut country today.” Of course, as he well knew, the nuts weren’t located only in Dallas. They were also situated throughout the U.S. national-security establishment.

Quote:

............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground ..............

very much like today.

One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.'

This more than anything else warmed me to Trump.

did Kennedy and his staff have secret meeting and then deny them?  :D :D

Why doesn't everybody who would like to see the Deep State assassinate Trump put their name down here.
Believe me, they will if he puts his foot across one of their red lines.

It's easy. For example: I would, LW Nutjob.
That's a better option than a poll because then you can't hide, we can see exactly who you are and what you want.

PS President Eisenhower first warned us about the Deep State, which he called the military/industrial complex, just before he left office.

bogarde73 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Why doesn't everybody who would like to see the Deep State assassinate Trump put their name down here. Believe me, they will if he puts his foot across one of their red lines. It's easy. For example: I would, LW Nutjob. That's a better option than a poll because then you can't hide, we can see exactly who you are and what you want. PS President Eisenhower first warned us about the Deep State, which he called the military/industrial complex, just before he left office.

'deep state' is a tinfoil hat fantasy.

idiot.

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 4:35pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 3:03pm: Why doesn't everybody who would like to see the Deep State assassinate Trump put their name down here. Believe me, they will if he puts his foot across one of their red lines. It's easy. For example: I would, LW Nutjob. That's a better option than a poll because then you can't hide, we can see exactly who you are and what you want. PS President Eisenhower first warned us about the Deep State, which he called the military/industrial complex, just before he left office. 'deep state' is a tinfoil hat fantasy. idiot.

Depends what you mean by it. I haven't got a straight answer yet.

Do you want to have a stab, Bogie?

You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite".

I see, despite all the screaming, nobody's willing to put their name down yet in support of Trump's assassination.
That's an encouraging sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YafZkjiMpjU

bogarde73 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 5:47pm:

You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite".

Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking.

What do you mean by it?

bogarde73 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 5:47pm:

You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite".

so no answer then....


idiot

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:04pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". so no answer then.... idiot

That's not curious, Longy, that's just dumb. Bogey is free to reply as he sees fit.

Year 9 maths, innit.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 2:26pm:

Quote: ............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground .............. very much like today. One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.' This more than anything else warmed me to Trump.

more fool you. Who in their right mind calls Putin - a mass murderer - 'a good guy'?  You can seek good relations with Russia - as all presidents have sought - but you cannot call Putin a good guy without looking like a fool... or worse.

Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:03pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it?

he doesnt know. He repeats tinfoil hat terms without understanding them. After all, ignorance is a key qualification for being a trumpoid.

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:08pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 2:26pm: Quote: ............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground .............. very much like today. One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.' This more than anything else warmed me to Trump. more fool you. Who in their right mind calls Putin - a mass murderer - 'a good guy'?  You can seek good relations with Russia - as all presidents have sought - but you cannot call Putin a good guy without looking like a fool... or worse.

It's Sprint, Longy.

Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:08pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 2:26pm: Quote: ............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground .............. very much like today. One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.' This more than anything else warmed me to Trump. more fool you. Who in their right mind calls Putin - a mass murderer - 'a good guy'?  You can seek good relations with Russia - as all presidents have sought - but you cannot call Putin a good guy without looking like a fool... or worse. It's Sprint, Longy.

'Sprint' is now a byword for intolerance, ignorance, self-interest and a healthy does of racism.  Look what politics does to some people!

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:08pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 2:26pm: Quote: ............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground .............. very much like today. One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.' This more than anything else warmed me to Trump. more fool you. Who in their right mind calls Putin - a mass murderer - 'a good guy'?  You can seek good relations with Russia - as all presidents have sought - but you cannot call Putin a good guy without looking like a fool... or worse.

Well Putin does have a 87% approval rating in Russia - they think he is a "good guy".

He has returned Russia from a communist country to a Christian/Judaeo culture. I thought you who claim to be Christian would think that would make him a "good guy".

Since he came to power Russia has seen an average 7% growth rate an envy of the West - despite the illegally introduced sanctions.

Putin knows the next war will be fought with missiles. His missiles are 2 generations more advanced than the US's and has developed directed EM pulse weapons. Such a weapon left the Donald Cook Aegis class destroyer a barge in the Black Sea.

He has banned the import of Monsanto products as well as the growing of GM food while encouraging growing organic food. Looking after Russian peoples health - makes him a "good guy".

No Putin is a very good leader and he has a plan to escape the hegemony of the Wests financial system which is rotten to the core.

I don't know about him being a mass murderer - that is the term the West uses to discredit any leader the West does not like.

Gee, people outside Russia actually believe Putin's propaganda. Uncanny.

Finish him off with an idiot post, Longy. This time, it's earned.

Karnal wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:29am:

Gee, people outside Russia actually believe Putin's propaganda. Uncanny. Finish him off with an idiot post, Longy. This time, it's earned.

Why not discuss my assertions instead of insults?
You and weak end don't have much credibility.

IMO there is a lot of people in Australia you would love to have Putin as President. He has goals and is working toward them. What goals has your Prime Minister got apart from keeping the rackets going? None!

Richdude wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 4:40am:

Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:29am: Gee, people outside Russia actually believe Putin's propaganda. Uncanny. Finish him off with an idiot post, Longy. This time, it's earned. Why not discuss my assertions instead of insults? You and weak end don't have much credibility. IMO there is a lot of people in Australia you would love to have Putin as President. He has goals and is working toward them. What goals has your Prime Minister got apart from keeping the rackets going? None!

No. We don't want Putin as president, thanks all the same.

In inimical Australian fashion, we've turned a despotic murderer into a national joke.

We laugh at Trump harder though. Must be because of all the American telly we watch. We feel a kinship.

... and tremendously sorry for you all over there. And more than a little frightened that he's going to get us all killed.

mothra wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:03am:

Richdude wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 4:40am: Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:29am: Gee, people outside Russia actually believe Putin's propaganda. Uncanny. Finish him off with an idiot post, Longy. This time, it's earned. Why not discuss my assertions instead of insults? You and weak end don't have much credibility. IMO there is a lot of people in Australia you would love to have Putin as President. He has goals and is working toward them. What goals has your Prime Minister got apart from keeping the rackets going? None! No. We don't want Putin as president, thanks all the same. In inimical Australian fashion, we've turned a despotic murderer into a national joke. We laugh at Trump harder though. Must be because of all the American telly we watch. We feel a kinship. ... and tremendously sorry for you all over there. And more than a little frightened that he's going to get us all killed.

You don't need to!

Thats your media at work.

Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 6:03pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it?

I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal.
What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests.
They don't answer to anybody but themselves.

Richdude wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:25am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:08pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 2:26pm: Quote: ............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground .............. very much like today. One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.' This more than anything else warmed me to Trump. more fool you. Who in their right mind calls Putin - a mass murderer - 'a good guy'?  You can seek good relations with Russia - as all presidents have sought - but you cannot call Putin a good guy without looking like a fool... or worse. Well Putin does have a 87% approval rating in Russia - they think he is a "good guy". He has returned Russia from a communist country to a Christian/Judaeo culture. I thought you who claim to be Christian would think that would make him a "good guy". Since he came to power Russia has seen an average 7% growth rate an envy of the West - despite the illegally introduced sanctions. Putin knows the next war will be fought with missiles. His missiles are 2 generations more advanced than the US's and has developed directed EM pulse weapons. Such a weapon left the Donald Cook Aegis class destroyer a barge in the Black Sea. He has banned the import of Monsanto products as well as the growing of GM food while encouraging growing organic food. Looking after Russian peoples health - makes him a "good guy". No Putin is a very good leader and he has a plan to escape the hegemony of the Wests financial system which is rotten to the core. I don't know about him being a mass murderer - that is the term the West uses to discredit any leader the West does not like.

yeah that polll is really credible in a country where the opposition gets murdered, where anti-putin activists get jailed beaten and... murdered.

complete idiot.

bogarde73 wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 11:08am:

Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves.

it's what YOU Call 'deep state'. everyone else realises your claim is simply tin-foil-hat rubbish.

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2017 at 7:43pm:

Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:11pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:08pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 2:26pm: Quote: ............. In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.” Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground .............. very much like today. One of Donalds greatest ideas is 'to be friends with Russia' and 'Putin is a good guy.' This more than anything else warmed me to Trump. more fool you. Who in their right mind calls Putin - a mass murderer - 'a good guy'?  You can seek good relations with Russia - as all presidents have sought - but you cannot call Putin a good guy without looking like a fool... or worse. It's Sprint, Longy. 'Sprint' is now a byword for intolerance, ignorance, self-interest and a healthy does of racism.  Look what politics does to some people!

Yes, we can see what its done to you.

bogarde73 wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 11:08am:

Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves.

Another name for corporate Amerika, you think?

Karnal wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 12:50pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 11:08am: Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves. Another name for corporate Amerika, you think?

No! As Bogarde says its Government and corporations working together.

That is as Mussolini said - Fascism!

Better get your dictionary out for that word Karnal.

Richdude wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 1:20pm:

Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:50pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 11:08am: Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves. Another name for corporate Amerika, you think? No! As Bogarde says its Government and corporations working together. That is as Mussolini said - Fascism! Better get your dictionary out for that word Karnal.

and you claim political expertise... LOL

idiot.

Richdude wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 1:20pm:

Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:50pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 11:08am: Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves. Another name for corporate Amerika, you think? No! As Bogarde says its Government and corporations working together. That is as Mussolini said - Fascism! Better get your dictionary out for that word Karnal.

To.an extent, I agree, but what's your take on the deep state, Rich?

Bogie says it's the Military Industrial Complex, and I can't disagree there.

For Bannon and his crowd, it's a Democratic Party-led public service and the Washington Beltway set. You know, not much more than Tamany Hall on the national stage.

Bannon has added Republicans to his thesis, and by this he means Republicans who opposed Trump's candidacy. Bannon calls them all "the elites".

So if the "deep state" is led by politicians and their friendly donors and lobbyists, how exactly is it outside the democratic process?

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 1:25pm:

Richdude wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 1:20pm: Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:50pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 11:08am: Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves. Another name for corporate Amerika, you think? No! As Bogarde says its Government and corporations working together. That is as Mussolini said - Fascism! Better get your dictionary out for that word Karnal. and you claim political expertise... LOL idiot.

Weak end calling anyone on ozpolitic an idiot is not an insult.

When he doesn't - thats an insult!  ;D

Richdude wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 4:40am:

Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:29am: Gee, people outside Russia actually believe Putin's propaganda. Uncanny. Finish him off with an idiot post, Longy. This time, it's earned. Why not discuss my assertions instead of insults? You and weak end don't have much credibility. IMO there is a lot of people in Australia you would love to have Putin as President. He has goals and is working toward them. What goals has your Prime Minister got apart from keeping the rackets going? None!

that just shows how deluded, how insane and how off-the-planet you are.  other than comrade lee rhiannon, NO ONE outside of russia wants a murderous dictator like Putin in charge who btw has nearly destroyed his economy.

freaking idiot.

Richdude wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 2:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 1:25pm: Richdude wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 1:20pm: Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:50pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 11:08am: Karnal wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 6:03pm: bogarde73 wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 5:47pm: You can start by reading Eisenhower's "military/industrial complex" speech and there have been various good books like "The Power Elite". Those texts don't mention the deep state, Bogie, hence why I'm asking. What do you mean by it? I said that Eisenhower called it the "military/industrial complex", but by that he meant what we now refer to as the Deep State. I wish you'd pay attention Karnal. What it refers to is the set of power relationships that exist behind and above the government of the US, involving people from corporations, the military, both parties, the national security networks principally, perhaps some media, who work behind the scenes to ensure the elected governments don't step out of line with what the elite see as their core mutual interests. They don't answer to anybody but themselves. Another name for corporate Amerika, you think? No! As Bogarde says its Government and corporations working together. That is as Mussolini said - Fascism! Better get your dictionary out for that word Karnal. and you claim political expertise... LOL idiot. Weak end calling anyone on ozpolitic an idiot is not an insult. When he doesn't - thats an insult!  ;D

you are right that it isnt an insult to call you an idiot. It is merely a generous description of your mental health and capacity.

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2017 at 5:25pm:

Richdude wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 4:40am: Karnal wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:29am: Gee, people outside Russia actually believe Putin's propaganda. Uncanny. Finish him off with an idiot post, Longy. This time, it's earned. Why not discuss my assertions instead of insults? You and weak end don't have much credibility. IMO there is a lot of people in Australia you would love to have Putin as President. He has goals and is working toward them. What goals has your Prime Minister got apart from keeping the rackets going? None! that just shows how deluded, how insane and how off-the-planet you are.  other than comrade lee rhiannon, NO ONE outside of russia wants a murderous dictator like Putin in charge who btw has nearly destroyed his economy. freaking idiot.

You read to much fake media. It is reported that Putin has jailed 100 political opponents. The media hates Russia so how do we know what is true?

You are a fool weak end and just a loathsome propaganda merchant dealing in lies and deceit.

Disgusting!