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Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Blame the West
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Message started by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 11:11am

Title: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 11:11am

Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2017 at 10:27pm:

Frank wrote on May 12th, 2017 at 10:19pm:

Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2017 at 10:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 12th, 2017 at 10:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12th, 2017 at 8:56pm:
People fear Muslims because they refuse to understand Muslims, Soren.  Just like you do.  Tsk, tsk.    ::)


What IS the 'true' meaning of the daily Islamic murder of innocents, you disgusting, stupid f Vcking  bastard? Where IS the misunderstanding?

What do YOU understand by the daily jihadi murders, you yawning, stupid, hideous worm.


Is there a War going on?  One on 'Terror,' waged by the West?

Is there a War going on? Yeah, it's called jihad.


Should the West not respond to it?  Is that what you are saying Arse?? Let there be Islamic jihad against the West and the West must not respond?

Are you really that Brian/Karnal??


Yes, you are.


The West started this chit.  Don't whinge if 'terror' fights back.



Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:58am:

Quote:
When did the west start it Aussie?


You could argue, 1948.  More recently, Kuwait.


Aussie, what exactly are we blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 11:19am
1948=the State of Israel.  Would you like me to explain Kuwait?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Frank on May 13th, 2017 at 12:03pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 11:19am:
1948=the State of Israel.  Would you like me to explain Kuwait?



So there is Islamic jihad against civilians in the West because the UN recognised Israel in 1948?

And you really, really think that the sunnis and the shia are murdering each other in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria because of Israel? That jihadis like Boko Haram, the Taliban, ISIS, the jihadis of Thailand, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Africa and elsewhere are murdering civilians because of Israel?  That Hib ul Tahrir and the Muslim Bruvvahood want an Islamic caliphate across the globe because of Israel? That Muslim apostates are killed by other Muslims because of Israel?

You cannot possibly believe this nonsense. Nobody is that stupid.


Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Gordon on May 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm
History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

The Muslim Brotherhood is an Islamic organization that was founded in Ismailia, Egypt by Hassan al-Banna in March 1928 as an Islamist religious, political, and social movement.[1][2] The group spread to other Muslim countries but has its largest, or one of its largest, organizations in Egypt, where for many years it has been the largest, best-organized, and most disciplined political opposition force,[3][4][5] despite a succession of government crackdowns in 1948, 1954, 1965 after plots, or alleged plots, of assassination and overthrow were uncovered.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Yadda on May 13th, 2017 at 12:07pm


Hmmmm!

I think that some people do underestimate human stupidity!

;D



Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 12:08pm
Aussie, what exactly are we blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 12:12pm

Frank wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:03pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 11:19am:
1948=the State of Israel.  Would you like me to explain Kuwait?



So there is Islamic jihad against civilians in the West because the UN recognised Israel in 1948?

And you really, really think that the sunnis and the shia are murdering each other in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria because of Israel? That jihadis like Boko Haram, the Taliban, ISIS, the jihadis of Thailand, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Africa and elsewhere are murdering civilians because of Israel?  That Hib ul Tahrir and the Muslim Bruvvahood want an Islamic caliphate across the globe because of Israel? That Muslim apostates are killed by other Muslims because of Israel?

You cannot possibly believe this nonsense. Nobody is that stupid.


The 'Arabs' have been at each others throats for centuries.  We need to keep our nose out of that, and I suppose we did originally start meddling with the first Crusade.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:03pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 11:19am:
1948=the State of Israel.  Would you like me to explain Kuwait?



So there is Islamic jihad against civilians in the West because the UN recognised Israel in 1948?

And you really, really think that the sunnis and the shia are murdering each other in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria because of Israel? That jihadis like Boko Haram, the Taliban, ISIS, the jihadis of Thailand, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Africa and elsewhere are murdering civilians because of Israel?  That Hib ul Tahrir and the Muslim Bruvvahood want an Islamic caliphate across the globe because of Israel? That Muslim apostates are killed by other Muslims because of Israel?

You cannot possibly believe this nonsense. Nobody is that stupid.


The 'Arabs' have been at each others throats for centuries.  We need to keep our nose out of that, and I suppose we did originally start meddling with the first Crusade.

Oh dear....  more of Aussie's swiss cheese history...
never hear of the Muslim Conquests of the Holy Lands eh bwian.  oh I'm sorry it sounded like you for a minute bwian...  I meant Aussie. :D
The First Crusade (1095–1099) started as a widespread pilgrimage of western Christendom and ended as a military expedition by Roman Catholic Europe to regain the Holy Land taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant (632–661), ultimately resulting in the capture of Jerusalem in 1099.

Oh and the Crusades have been over for centuries only dopes and muslims keep bringing them up as an excuse.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Karnal on May 13th, 2017 at 1:01pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Good point, FD. GW Bush had nothing better to do too, eh?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 2:29pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Cute.  Focusing.

Grendel, since when were the 'Holy Lands' property of the West?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 3:09pm
Do some homework aussie.

1. WWI - do you think that had anything to do with the current situation.....

Next question once you answer this. Understanding history is a step by step analysis.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 3:17pm

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
Do some homework aussie.

1. WWI - do you think that had anything to do with the current situation.....

Next question once you answer this. Understanding history is a step by step analysis.


I know it did.  That European War among western nations had terrible consequences there.

Proves my point.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 3:20pm
Proves you don't know what you are talking about.

They chose to side with Germany. They lost. Empire over. The victors set the new rules and new governance structure and begin dividing up the empire. Who's fault is that..... then.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Proves you don't know what you are talking about.

They chose to side with Germany. They lost. Empire over. The victors set the new rules and new governance structure and begin dividing up the empire. Who's fault is that..... then.


What was Germany doing there in the ME in the first place?  Is it not part of the 'West?'  Do you mean that the Turks sided with Germany?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm
2. What was the impact of WWII? (and who do you blame)

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Proves you don't know what you are talking about.

They chose to side with Germany. They lost. Empire over. The victors set the new rules and new governance structure and begin dividing up the empire. Who's fault is that..... then.


What was Germany doing there in the ME in the first place?  Is it not part of the 'West?'


You are seeking to attribute blame. Get your story right before you play your deflecting games.

They chose sides and lost in a western conflict. Who is to blame for them taking sides at all. Stick to the point aussie.


Quote:
Do you mean that the Turks sided with Germany?


Not just the Turks... the Ottoman empire as it was

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 3:41pm

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Proves you don't know what you are talking about.

They chose to side with Germany. They lost. Empire over. The victors set the new rules and new governance structure and begin dividing up the empire. Who's fault is that..... then.


What was Germany doing there in the ME in the first place?  Is it not part of the 'West?'


You are seeking to attribute blame. Get your story right before you play your deflecting games.

They chose sides and lost in a western conflict. Who is to blame for them taking sides at all. Stick to the point aussie.


Quote:
Do you mean that the Turks sided with Germany?


Not just the Turks... the Ottoman empire as it was


Was not the Ottoman Empire predominantly Turkish?

What is your point anyway?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 3:44pm

Quote:
You are seeking to attribute blame.


I did not start this Thread,  Effendi (as is his want) dragged an exchange from another Thread to here, which pretty much put it out of context.

In that other Thread, the discussion was about the modern contemporary 'War on Terror.'  My comment was that the West caused that 'chit.'  It went from there.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:11pm
Sob sob. You chose to post in this thread and now you blame FD. Blaming someone else for you own posts is a laugh aussie.

The capital of the Ottoman empire was Istanbul which is in Turkey.

The Ottoman Empire joined the Central Powers to form the Triple Alliance with the signing of the August 1914 Turco-German Alliance.

Shall we look for blame in WWII now.....

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 4:14pm

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
Sob sob. You chose to post in this thread and now you blame FD. Blaming someone else for you own posts is a laugh aussie.

The capital of the Ottoman empire was Istanbul which is in Turkey.

The Ottoman Empire joined the Central Powers to form the Triple Alliance with the signing of the August 1914 Turco-German Alliance.

Shall we look for blame in WWII now.....


No 'sob sob,' and the day I sob to anyone especially you will never come.  If you read the OP, you'll see Effendi dragged me in.

What is your point?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:18pm
Again you prove that you cannot engage in a debate on a point you were trying to make.

Again you prove yourself unworthy of a debate because you cannot engage in one.

Google is your friend aussie... go do some research rather than rely on your ill informed memory and world views.

My point is just this... you are wrong... "The west is not to blame and didn't cause this chit". If you look more closely at what has actually happened and why.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:22pm
Oh and sobbing is OK at the end of you screen where no-one can see you aussie... Pretending to be strong is OK too. Sob away.....

Oh I need to blame FD for starting a thread and when I posted in it someone disagreed with me... oh the pain. Sob sob... I may need to admit I am wrong.... sob sob.... they will discover I am a fraud ... sob sob...




Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 4:24pm
I'll ask for the third time:

What is your point Super Nova? 

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:26pm
And on another point aussie. When are you going to come clean on which PA member who lives overseas you have been collecting personal information and stalking?

When will you come clean or clear yourself of this allegation.

I have a right to know as I am a member of the set referred to in this allegation.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 4:30pm

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
And on another point aussie. When are you going to come clean on which PA member who lives overseas you have been collecting personal information and stalking?

When will you come clean or clear yourself of this allegation.

I have a right to know as I am a member of the set referred to in this allegation.


I have no idea what you are talking about and I will be reporting your Post.  You have made serious allegations of criminal conduct.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Gordon on May 13th, 2017 at 4:32pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:30pm:

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
And on another point aussie. When are you going to come clean on which PA member who lives overseas you have been collecting personal information and stalking?

When will you come clean or clear yourself of this allegation.

I have a right to know as I am a member of the set referred to in this allegation.


I have no idea what you are talking about and I will be reporting your Post.  You have made serious allegations of criminal conduct.


Troll.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:42pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:30pm:

Super Nova wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
And on another point aussie. When are you going to come clean on which PA member who lives overseas you have been collecting personal information and stalking?

When will you come clean or clear yourself of this allegation.

I have a right to know as I am a member of the set referred to in this allegation.


I have no idea what you are talking about and I will be reporting your Post.  You have made serious allegations of criminal conduct.


You idiot. Try your best to deflect. I am referign to the aligation not making the aligation.


Quote:
Re: Pub Quiz #7
Reply #125 - May 10th, 2017 at 3:16am

Aussie is so jealous he was not invited back..that he would like to see Monk unhappy as well...hope you are happy . Monk does not trust you, ask him how..

And it might be the time Aussie for you to admit about your stalking obession with the PA member who lives overseas.. ready for that are you? Speaking of faults lets number a few of Aussies no one knows about...


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1493705531/120#120

And pretending you have no idea what I am talking about is just BS.

Well aussie, is this allegation true?. I see no denial which is unusual for you. Address the allegation because I smell truth in it. And Mr Lawyer... there is no defamation when it is truth and I did not make this allegation. I am requesting your response to this allegation.

I await your considered response. Crying to the mods just makes you look like you have something to hide.


Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 4:46pm
I have reported your Post.  I have no idea what you are referring to, and if you want answers, I suggest you ask whatever fool put one over you.

(You will see a denial from me in that Thread you linked.)

/End from me.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:48pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
I have reported your Post.  I have no idea what you are referring to, and if you want answers, I suggest you ask whatever fool put one over you.


I provided the link aussie. Click on it. You posted in quotes 2 posts later the allegation. So you do know what I am talking about. I am talking about the allegation. Your word play is not working aussie.

What say ye to the allegation aussie... wot?

Grow some balls man....

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:52pm
Oh a denial from you (I don't know what you're talking about) is to be accepted when someone from your ex inner circles says otherwise. That is not an explicit denial. it is your usual attempt to play with words to imply something but not be explicit.

The plot thickens aussie.

Then who is lying aussie... be careful now.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 4:54pm
/end from me too.

We know the truth aussie. Hide all you want but you have been found out again. You should be ashamed.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 3:44pm:

Quote:
You are seeking to attribute blame.


I did not start this Thread,  Effendi (as is his want) dragged an exchange from another Thread to here, which pretty much put it out of context.

In that other Thread, the discussion was about the modern contemporary 'War on Terror.'  My comment was that the West caused that 'chit.'  It went from there.


Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?

I did not take it out of context. i quoted you saying those things in the opening post.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 5:08pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


One could argue it started many times, all at the behest of the West.  I have already answered you in that other Thread.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm

Quote:
One could argue it started many times


What started many times Aussie? What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Mr Hammer on May 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


One could argue it started many times, all at the behest of the West.  I have already answered you in that other Thread.
What about the sectarian aspect to violence in the middle east?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 13th, 2017 at 5:12pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 2:29pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Cute.  Focusing.

Grendel, since when were the 'Holy Lands' property of the West?

HUH.... YOU brought up the Crusades dumbass not me....  I suggest you stop denying history and start learning it instead. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 5:16pm
Were it not for European interference, and later American interference, the Muslims would have conquered Europe also. As it is, they captured almost all of western civilisation and turned the most advanced societies on earth into some of the most backwards. Rather than liberal democracies, Europe would be covered in slave trading poo holes that are little different from North Africa. Were it not for that interference, Muslims would still be sending regular raiding parties along the European coastline and deep into eastern Europe to capture slaves. Were it not for that interference, Muslims would still be trading millions of European and African slaves.

Perhaps this is what Aussie means when he says the west started "it". We should stay out of "their business" which is predominantly slaughtering the infidel, capturing sex slaves, and imposing Islam on us.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 5:18pm

Grendel wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:12pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 2:29pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Cute.  Focusing.

Grendel, since when were the 'Holy Lands' property of the West?

HUH.... YOU brought up the Crusades dumbass not me....  I suggest you stop denying history and start learning it instead. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Indeed I did.  When did the Holy Lands become 'property of the West?'

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 5:20pm

Mr Hammer wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


One could argue it started many times, all at the behest of the West.  I have already answered you in that other Thread.
What about the sectarian aspect to violence in the middle east?


None of our business and has been going on for many, many centuries.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Mr Hammer on May 13th, 2017 at 5:27pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:20pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


One could argue it started many times, all at the behest of the West.  I have already answered you in that other Thread.
What about the sectarian aspect to violence in the middle east?


None of our business and has been going on for many, many centuries.
And our countries should be none of their business hey??

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 5:41pm

Mr Hammer wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:20pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


One could argue it started many times, all at the behest of the West.  I have already answered you in that other Thread.
What about the sectarian aspect to violence in the middle east?


None of our business and has been going on for many, many centuries.
And our countries should be none of their business hey??


Should be........but they are not because Bush et al declared 'our countries' to be at War.  There are always at least two sides to one of those.  The other side does not have its hands tied and is allowed to return fire.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Mr Hammer on May 13th, 2017 at 5:43pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:41pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:20pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Aussie you still haven't answered the first question.

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


One could argue it started many times, all at the behest of the West.  I have already answered you in that other Thread.
What about the sectarian aspect to violence in the middle east?


None of our business and has been going on for many, many centuries.
And our countries should be none of their business hey??


Should be........but they are not because Bush et al declared 'our countries' to be at War.  There are always at least two sides to one of those.  The other side does not have its hands tied and is allowed to return fire.
If I had my way we wouldn't be there and they wouldn't be here. Most righties would agree with that.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 13th, 2017 at 5:45pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:18pm:

Grendel wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:12pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 2:29pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Cute.  Focusing.

Grendel, since when were the 'Holy Lands' property of the West?

HUH.... YOU brought up the Crusades dumbass not me....  I suggest you stop denying history and start learning it instead. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Indeed I did.  When did the Holy Lands become 'property of the West?'

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Keep repeating it Aussie...  you only shine a bigger and brighter floodlight on your ignorance every time you do.

YOU think you know something, but as others have told you...  YOU ARE WRONG.

Just how many times must we all tell you before you decide to go learn something....  I even posted facts and dates for you....  yet here we are still reading your ignorant rubbish.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 5:50pm
Yeas Dear but you posted nothing about this:

When did the Holy Lands become 'property of the West?'

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 5:52pm
Who do you think owns them Aussie?

What exactly are you blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?

Do you disagree with any of this...?

The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.

Were it not for European interference, and later American interference, the Muslims would have conquered Europe also. As it is, they captured almost all of western civilisation and turned the most advanced societies on earth into some of the most backwards. Rather than liberal democracies, Europe would be covered in slave trading poo holes that are little different from North Africa. Were it not for that interference, Muslims would still be sending regular raiding parties along the European coastline and deep into eastern Europe to capture slaves. Were it not for that interference, Muslims would still be trading millions of European and African slaves.

Perhaps this is what Aussie means when he says the west started "it". We should stay out of "their business" which is predominantly slaughtering the infidel, capturing sex slaves, and imposing Islam on us.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 13th, 2017 at 5:58pm
You do remember the Hebrews and Jerusalem, Christ and the Romans right Aussie...  You do remember people like Alexander The Great right?
Man has been at war; man against man, tribe against tribe, nation against nation forever and a day right?

Why do you think The Holy Lands are called the Holy lands in the West?

Roman (63 B.C. — 324 A.D.)

c.30-33 Death and resurrection of Jesus

66 Jewish rebellion ignites war with Rome; Christians flee city

70 Roman army led by Titus destroys Jerusalem and Jewish Temple

132—135 Bar Kokhba leads second Jewish revolt

135Emperor Hadrian conquers Jerusalem and renames it "Aelia Capitolina"; Jews are expelled from city; pagan temple built over site of Jesus ' tomb

313Edict of Milan ends persecution of Christians
The Byzantine Period (324-638)

324 Constantine becomes sole ruler of Roman Empire and decides to shift capital from Rome to Byzantium (Constantinople)

325 Eusebius publishes Church History; Macanus, bishop of Jerusalem, attends Council of Nicaea

326 Constantine orders construction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre; excavation uncovers tomb of Christ and supposedly pieces of the Cross

c. 326-328 Queen Helena visits Palestine and builds churches 333 "Bordeaux Pilgrim" visits Palestine and keeps a travel diary

335Church of the Holy Sepulcher is dedicated for worship

337 Constantine dies; Eusebius publishes Life of Constantine

339 Dedication of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem

c.348 —387 Cyril is bishop of Jerusalem

362—365 Emperor Julian "the Apostate" tries to reestablish pagan worship and promises to rebuild Jewish Temple

373 Melania the Elder and Rufinus found monastic communities on the Mount of Olives

384—386 Jerome and Paula establish monastery in Bethlehem

384—387 Egeria travels in the East and keeps a detailed account of her trip

391 Emperor Theodosius the Great outlaws paganism, making Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire

c. 400 Rabbis in Tiberias compile Jerusalem Talmud

405 Euthymius, a monk from Armenia, settles in the Judean desert

410 Visigoths sack Rome

443 Empress Eudocia is banished and settles in Jerusalem, improving the city and its walls

451 Council of Chalcedon defines two natures of Christ; Jerusalem becomes the fifth patriarchate (with Constantinople, Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch)

516 Sabas and monks of Palestine gather to support Chalcedon

527—565 Byzantine Palestine reaches its height during the reign of Emperor Justinian

555—558 Cyril of Scythopolis writes biographies of the monks of Palestine

614 Persians sack Jerusalem

630 Emperor Heraclius invades Persia & recovers the True Cross, returning it to Jerusalem
Early Arab (638-1099)

639 Jerusalem surrenders to Muslim Caliph Umar 

Oh dear quite a history right.... seems Rome Conquered the Holy Lands and made it part of Rome.  Which became the centre of Christianity in Europe...  you know the POPE and all that.

When along came the Muslims and conquered Jerusalem a major Roman city and heart of Christianity.

A few hundred years later a POPE thought it was time to take it back. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 6:03pm
And.....when did the Holy Lands become property of the West?

You keep forgetting to answer that, but I'll bet you reply that I am too dumb (given what a gargantuan intellect you are)  to see that you have, when in fact what I (and all the mere simpletons here) have seen is you do everything except answer that simple question.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 13th, 2017 at 6:23pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
And.....when did the Holy Lands become property of the West?

You keep forgetting to answer that, but I'll bet you reply that I am too dumb (given what a gargantuan intellect you are)  to see that you have, when in fact what I (and all the mere simpletons here) have seen is you do everything except answer that simple question.

Sorry was that too complicated for you....
BTW it does answer your stupid question though as well as once more show you you were completely wrong from the start.

You could of course already learned that if you  understood what I wrote or took SN's advice and used google, believe me it aint rocket science. :D :D :D

Keep your flaming and trolling to yourself... I'm not interested in it. ::) ::) ::)

Better still...  REPORT YOURSELF to a mod. ;D ;D ;D ::)

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 6:28pm
Grendel, it is a simple question.  How about an equally simple and direct answer:

When did the Holy Lands become "property of the West?"

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Super Nova on May 13th, 2017 at 6:43pm

Quote:
Cat got your tongue, Super Nova?  You going to 'man up?'

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1494408657/18#18

I don't post in your swamp aussie if I don't have too. If you have something to say, say it here or there but I am not getting sucked in.

Don't try and deflect and have control.

Man up aussie or forever be stained with the accusation I didn't make.

It was made against YOU. It is not for me to pursue even though I could be the one at risk. You sort it big boy. I look forward to the resolution and truth appearing.

PS: The person making this allegation is, in my personal experience, someone of integrity.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 7:17pm
Four pages in and we still don't even know what Aussie blames the west for.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 7:19pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 7:17pm:
Four pages in and we still don't even know what Aussie blames the west for.


The 'chit.'  I posted that in the other Thread.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 7:21pm
What exactly is this "chit" you are blaming the west for?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 7:32pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 7:21pm:
What exactly is this "chit" you are blaming the west for?


The 'chit' which is the direct consequence of Bush's War on Terror, and more generally Western interference in the ME.  How many times must I give you the same answer, Effendi?  The answer will not change no matter how many times you ask the same dumb question.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 7:44pm

Quote:
The 'chit' which is the direct consequence of Bush's War on Terror, and more generally Western interference in the ME.


And this started in 1948?


Quote:
How many times must I give you the same answer, Effendi?


Twice would be a good start.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 8:01pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 7:44pm:

Quote:
The 'chit' which is the direct consequence of Bush's War on Terror, and more generally Western interference in the ME.


And this started in 1948?

[quote]How many times must I give you the same answer, Effendi?


Twice would be a good start.[/quote]

As I said....that could be argued.  I also referred to Kuwait.  Did the West stick its nose in there, Effendi....and then.....when Saddam was booted out of Kuwait, did we stop at the border, or did we totally destroy a Sovereign State?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by issuevoter on May 13th, 2017 at 8:38pm
The claim that the West is responsible for the Middle East is getting easier to make. Especially since George W Bush convinced Blair, Howard and several European leaders to back his invasion of Iraq. It was an intentional smoke screen. Bush was faced with a problem. See him biting his lip in the school room when the Muzlims crashed the planes into the WTC - 911? He did not plan it, and there were at least two people in the US, that day, who knew exactly who was responsible: Those two were George W and me.

But George had to think fast, not something he was good at.  Sure, Osama bin Laden sanctioned it, but the Wahabs sanctioned bin Laden, and the Saudi Royal family protect the Wahhabs, and the Bush family are in business with the Saudi family.

So Bush had to find some way to get the heat of the Sauds and by connection, his own family, and conveniently, the stooge Saddam was there like a sitting duck.

In that much, the mess is of Bush and Western making, but that does not clear Wahhabs or the Iranian Islamic Republic from their desire to spread Islam and murder those who do not believe their superstition. And that is really what this is all about. Muzlim fundamentalism, a system of belief which is ready to kill everyone in the name of Allah, and that includes themselves.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 8:46pm

issuevoter wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 8:38pm:
The claim that the West is responsible for the Middle East is getting easier to make. Especially since George W Bush convinced Blair, Howard and several European leaders to back his invasion of Iraq. It was an intentional smoke screen. Bush was faced with a problem. See him biting his lip in the school room when the Muzlims crashed the planes into the WTC - 911? He did not plan it, and there were at least two people in the US, that day, who knew exactly who was responsible: Those two were George W and me.

But George had to think fast, not something he was good at.  Sure, Osama bin Laden sanctioned it, but the Wahabs sanctioned bin Laden, and the Saudi Royal family protect the Wahhabs, and the Bush family are in business with the Saudi family.

So Bush had to find some way to get the heat of the Sauds and by connection, his own family, and conveniently, the stooge Saddam was there like a sitting duck.

In that much, the mess is of Bush and Western making, but that does not clear Wahhabs or the Iranian Islamic Republic from their desire to spread Islam and murder those who do not believe their superstition. And that is really what this is all about. Muzlim fundamentalism, a system of belief which is ready to kill everyone in the name of Allah, and that includes themselves.


Yeas.....but instead of going after the Saudis (who were the pricks who were behind 9/11) the West chose an easier patsy to beat the chit out of......Afghanistan.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 8:51pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 8:01pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 7:44pm:

Quote:
The 'chit' which is the direct consequence of Bush's War on Terror, and more generally Western interference in the ME.


And this started in 1948?

[quote]How many times must I give you the same answer, Effendi?


Twice would be a good start.


As I said....that could be argued.  I also referred to Kuwait.  Did the West stick its nose in there, Effendi....and then.....when Saddam was booted out of Kuwait, did we stop at the border, or did we totally destroy a Sovereign State?
[/quote]

It could be argued that the direct consequences of Bush's war on terror started in 1948?

What exactly are you blaming the west for?


Quote:
Yeas.....but instead of going after the Saudis (who were the pricks who were behind 9/11) the West chose an easier patsy to beat the chit out of......Afghanistan.


The Taliban had declared war on the US Aussie.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 8:58pm

Quote:
It could be argued that the direct consequences of Bush's war on terror started in 1948?


Is that what I said or is that you verballing as you do often with many Members?


Quote:
What exactly are you blaming the west for?


The 'chit.'


Quote:
The Taliban had declared war on the US Aussie.


Really?  Show me where?

Was is it not Saudis who were behind 9/11 Effendi?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 9:52pm
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/08/twenty-years-war/496736/

Exactly two decades ago, on August 23, 1996, Osama bin Laden declared war on the United States.

What exactly are you blaming the west for?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by gandalf on May 13th, 2017 at 9:55pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 11:11am:
Aussie, what exactly are we blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


I would point to things like the overthrow of a functioning parliamentary democracy in Iran... but then I remember you spinelessly apologising for it by arguing the Iranians deserved it for not offering enough of their oil to Britain.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 10:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 9:55pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 11:11am:
Aussie, what exactly are we blaming the west for? And why do you think it "started" in 1948?


I would point to things like the overthrow of a functioning parliamentary democracy in Iran... but then I remember you spinelessly apologising for it by arguing the Iranians deserved it for not offering enough of their oil to Britain.


I've already pointed that out but Effendi ignores it and instead posts some drivel:


Quote:
I also referred to Kuwait.  Did the West stick its nose in there, Effendi....and then.....when Saddam was booted out of Kuwait, did we stop at the border, or did we totally destroy a Sovereign State?


He did not answer.

:(

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by gandalf on May 13th, 2017 at 10:13pm
I don't think 1948 is a very good starting date. I would go back earlier in the century - especially during WWI when the western powers plotted the post-Ottoman future of the middle east. That was after they funded and armed the previously insignificant wahabists (who now rule Saudi Arabia) in their war against the Ottomans.

FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier. I'm still trying to work out how that fits in with justifying the west dividing up the middle east between themselves after WWI, and ruthlessly suppressing independence movements - like in Iraq in the 20s where Churchill advocated the use of poison gas.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 13th, 2017 at 10:33pm

Quote:
FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier.


Can you quote me saying anything like that?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Agatha on May 13th, 2017 at 10:38pm
Ahmadi Imam Hacked to Death

Other Recent "Misunderstandings of Islam"
2017.05.12 (Pakistan) A massive suicide bomb blast snares over two dozen souls.
2017.05.11 (Afghanistan) Two women and three children are among a family of seven exterminated by Taliban bombers.
2017.05.10 (Egypt) Islamic extremists machine-gun thirteen tribesmen point-blank.
2017.05.10 (India) Hizbul Mujahideen kidnap a 22-year-old man from a wedding and brutally execute him.
2017.05.09 (Thailand) Children are among the casualties of two Muslim bomb blasts at a shopping center.
2017.05.09 (Afghanistan) At least eight children and a teacher are sent straight to Allah by a bomb planted in their seminary classroom.

1 dead
24 dead
5 dead
13 dead
1 dead
61 injured
9 dead

53 dead, 61 injured. In 4 days.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Baronvonrort on May 13th, 2017 at 10:52pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:13pm:
I don't think 1948 is a very good starting date. I would go back earlier in the century - especially during WWI when the western powers plotted the post-Ottoman future of the middle east. That was after they funded and armed the previously insignificant wahabists (who now rule Saudi Arabia) in their war against the Ottomans.

FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier.


Are the West to blame for the Saudi-Ottoman war 1811-1818, did the West fund that war?
Muslims have been fighting each other for 1400 years.

Pakistan was created in similar circumstances around the same time as Israel, did muslims ever thank the West for carving up Hindustan for muslims, more Pakistanis have died from Islamic terror since 9/11 than coalition soldiers in the war on terror.

If muslims only fight in self defence then explain the Battle Of Lepanto, was that the first defeat for the Ottoman empire?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by gandalf on May 13th, 2017 at 10:54pm

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:33pm:

Quote:
FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier.


Can you quote me saying anything like that?


Awww here's FD trying to be cute.

We had an inane discussion about the overthrow of the Iranian democracy, and we examined the justification of the overthrow, which was Britain not being able to negotiate a favourable oil deal. You spent the entire discussion arguing how unreasonable the Iranians were. I guess making a concession that overthrowing a democracy and replacing it with a dictatorship over  "unreasonable" trade negotiations was kinda excessive and wrong - not to mention destabilising - must have slipped your mind right?

But you could always clear the record and concede that now if you like.


Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 13th, 2017 at 10:56pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:13pm:
I don't think 1948 is a very good starting date. I would go back earlier in the century - especially during WWI when the western powers plotted the post-Ottoman future of the middle east. That was after they funded and armed the previously insignificant wahabists (who now rule Saudi Arabia) in their war against the Ottomans.

FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier.


Are the West to blame for the Saudi-Ottoman war 1811-1818, did the West fund that war?
Muslims have been fighting each other for 1400 years.

Pakistan was created in similar circumstances around the same time as Israel, did muslims ever thank the West for carving up Hindustan for muslims, more Pakistanis have died from Islamic terror since 9/11 than coalition soldiers in the war on terror.

If muslims only fight in self defence then explain the Battle Of Lepanto, was that the first defeat for the Ottoman empire?


I do not care how much the 'Arabs' bash themselves.  It is none of our business.

They did not involve themselves in Wars when the West were beating the crap out of each other.

The West involved them.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Yadda on May 13th, 2017 at 10:57pm

Bertie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:38pm:

Ahmadi Imam Hacked to Death



Ahmadi moslems are a minority group of moslems [who are claimed to be heretics by Sunnis and Shia].


QUESTION;
If Ahmadis were a predominant, and a rampant, and a numerous group of moslems, how would Ahmadi moslems be treating Sunni moslems and Shia moslems ?

i.e.
Is the reason that Ahmadi moslems, themselves, are not persecuting other moslem groups, purely down to the fact that Ahmadis are too weak [and fearful] to do so ?

Do Ahmadis revere a different Mohammed, or read a different Koran, or worship a different Allah ?



Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Baronvonrort on May 13th, 2017 at 11:04pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:56pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:13pm:
I don't think 1948 is a very good starting date. I would go back earlier in the century - especially during WWI when the western powers plotted the post-Ottoman future of the middle east. That was after they funded and armed the previously insignificant wahabists (who now rule Saudi Arabia) in their war against the Ottomans.

FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier.


Are the West to blame for the Saudi-Ottoman war 1811-1818, did the West fund that war?
Muslims have been fighting each other for 1400 years.

Pakistan was created in similar circumstances around the same time as Israel, did muslims ever thank the West for carving up Hindustan for muslims, more Pakistanis have died from Islamic terror since 9/11 than coalition soldiers in the war on terror.

If muslims only fight in self defence then explain the Battle Of Lepanto, was that the first defeat for the Ottoman empire?


I do not care how much the 'Arabs' bash themselves.  It is none of our business.

They did not involve themselves in Wars when the West were beating the crap out of each other.

The West involved them.


You should check out the Battle Of Lepanto, of course muslims will claim they only fight in self defence.  ;D

Are the West to blame for Boko Haram in Nigeria or is that problem caused by Arab imperialism?


Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 14th, 2017 at 8:09am
Can anyone else hazard a guess at what this "chit" is that Aussie insists we blame the west for?


polite_gandalf wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:54pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:33pm:

Quote:
FD seems to hinge his entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier.


Can you quote me saying anything like that?


Awww here's FD trying to be cute.

We had an inane discussion about the overthrow of the Iranian democracy, and we examined the justification of the overthrow, which was Britain not being able to negotiate a favourable oil deal. You spent the entire discussion arguing how unreasonable the Iranians were. I guess making a concession that overthrowing a democracy and replacing it with a dictatorship over  "unreasonable" trade negotiations was kinda excessive and wrong - not to mention destabilising - must have slipped your mind right?

But you could always clear the record and concede that now if you like.


Nice effort at deflection Gandalf. Can you show where I "hinge my entire apology of western intervention on the expansion of the Ottoman empire into Europe some 2-3 hundred years earlier"? Or did you just make the whole thing up?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by moses on May 14th, 2017 at 3:19pm
Iran under Moṣaddeq planned to nationalize the oil industry, they were about to renege on contracts they had in place with British oil companies who had borrowed from the world bank, this would have caused global financial crisis. As the oil companies would not have been able to pay their debts. This was clearly unacceptable something had to be done;

Encyclopædia Iranica tells us in part


Quote:
The concession agreements, which were the legal basis on which the oil industry was run in most oil producing countries until early 1970s, can best be summed up as an arrangement whereby a government grants exclusive rights to a company or an individual to carry out petroleum operations in a defined area for a finite period. The concessionaire bears the burden of the financial and commercial risks but acquires the right to excavate the oil and dispose of it freely in exchange for the payment of certain specified sums to the government as the owner of resources

Furthermore Dr. Moṣaddeq’s trusted and close oil advisers had convinced him that given its size and importance, the Iranian crude oil and petroleum products were irreplaceable in the international markets. Consequently, the loss of such a volume of oil would bring the Western economies to their knees, forcing them to accept the Iranian terms, and bring about the success of the nationalization. They were clearly not sufficiently informed about the development of large-scale crude oil production capacities in the neighboring countries during the postwar years, and also about the emergence of considerable excess refining capacities in Western Europe (Yeganeh, p. 62).

The oil companies also strove to increase production in the United States and in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq. As it turned out, the momentum of the great post-war oil development supported the British embargo against Iran, and the feared shortage never materialized. By 1952, Iranian production had plummeted to just 20,000 barrels per day, compared to 664,000 in 1950, while total world production had risen from 10.9 million barrels per day in 1950 to 13.0 million in 1952, an increase more than three times greater than Iran’s total output in 1950 (Yergin, p. 464).

During his tenure of office Dr. Moṣaddeq was presented with the following proposals for the settlement of the oil dispute:

The Jackson Mission. On 19 June 1951, The Stokes mission. On 11 August 1951, The International Bank’s Proposal,The Churchill-Truman proposals.

The management and control of the oil industry in Iran would be in the hands of the Iranians. For the first time Moṣaddeq was to be offered a settlement that did not entail foreign management and control of oil operations in Iran.

On 7 March 1953 a communiqué was issued in Washington, stating that the US government regarded the proposals of 20 February 1953 as fair and reasonable and in keeping with the principle of oil nationalization, but on the 20 March, Moṣaddeq made a broadcast speech rejecting the proposals of 20 February.

The failure of Dr. Moṣaddeq to settle the oil dispute coincided with severe deterioration of economic conditions and worsening of the internal political situation in Iran.

At that point Moṣaddeq made the great mistake of failing to realize that he had extracted all the concessions he could get. Having driven the USA and Britain to their limits, he asked for still more and precipitated his downfall, opening the way for new negotiations with Zahedi’s Government.”Given the nature of his power base, Moṣaddeq, having risen on the rallying cry of oil nationalization , was left with very little room for maneuver, unable to accept any form of compromise with AIOC and Britain, let alone to take any positive initiative to reach a settlement, without being charged with betrayal by his own supporters.

Dr. Moṣaddeq was dismissed by the Shah, but upon his resistance against the dismissal the Shah left the country. This was followed by an uprising in Tehran in favor of the Shah which led to the overthrow of Dr. Moṣaddeq’s government in August 1953, the installation of General Faẓl-Allāh Zāhedi’s government, and the return of the Shah to the country (See EIr, vol. VI, pp. 354-56). Thus the stage was set for the settlement of the Iranian oil crisis, and the conclusion of a new agreement for revival of the Iranian oil industry (Yeganeh, pp. 61-64).


So the agreements were legal and binding, the world economy was part and parcel of the oil agreement (world bank debt)

Moṣaddeq thought he could break his countries' oil treaties, the west would be powerless to stop him as he mistakenly overrated the importance of Irans oil.

The west imposed sanctions on Iran, their oil production became an insignificant drop in the ocean of oil production.

The west tried to help the Iranians, Moṣaddeq rejected all their proposals, painted himself into a corner, no terms agreed could ever be good enough for him.

Moṣaddeq was dismissed. (the rest as they say is history)

muzzies playing the victim game, never accepting their own guilt, always blaming some one else.


Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Karnal on May 15th, 2017 at 12:17am
And Moses apologizes for the Iranian coup, as only Moses can.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Yadda on May 15th, 2017 at 1:20pm

Yadda wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

Bertie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 10:38pm:

Ahmadi Imam Hacked to Death



Ahmadi moslems are a minority group of moslems [who are claimed to be heretics by Sunnis and Shia].


QUESTION;
If Ahmadis were a predominant, and a rampant, and a numerous group of moslems, how would Ahmadi moslems be treating Sunni moslems and Shia moslems ?

i.e.
Is the reason that Ahmadi moslems, themselves, are not persecuting other moslem groups, purely down to the fact that Ahmadis are too weak [and fearful] to do so ?

Do Ahmadis revere a different Mohammed, or read a different Koran, or worship a different Allah ?









Ahmadi moslem      Qasim Rashid, is just another moslem, who would be persecuting the enemies of Allah, if he was given the 'opportunity' to do so
Koran 48.29

Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victims'.

They are simply another group of moslems, who are engaged in conflict with those who do not believe as they believe.





Quote:

By Christine Williams on May 13, 2017 06:08 am

Muslim spokesman blames Christianity for Islamic blasphemy laws


>>>>>
It is characteristic of Islamic supremacists to blame
the Christian,
the Jew,
colonialism,
imperialism and/or
the West
for any Muslim failure, misdeed and misfortune.

<<<<<


Qasim Rashid, in his column below, claims that his tiny Ahmadi sect supports the freedom of speech,          but he blames Christianity for Islamic blasphemy laws,         while exonerating Islam from any responsibility for them.

Rashid falsely claims that blasphemy laws are “not Islamic at all,” even though they are very Islamic.

Sharia law is considered divine law and it encompasses both the hadith and the Quran.

The hadith is explicit on blasphemy laws, but Rashid, like many others, relies on Western ignorance about Islam.

In fact, his reputation precedes him as a professional liar.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/muslim-spokesman-blames-christianity-for-islamic-blasphemy-laws





Ahmadi moslems,       Sunni moslems,        Shia moslems.

Every one of those 'religious' groups are      WANNA-BE      persecutors of those who do not believe as they believe....


Yadda wrote on May 3rd, 2017 at 10:16pm:

ISLAM is ISLAM.

.....

And every moslem, is a moslem.




.




Quote:

By Robert Spencer on May 13, 2017 05:29 pm

Pakistan: Muslims threaten to kill Christian lawyer for defending people against blasphemy charges

“A Christian lawyer who has been defending people charged with blasphemy and
helping victims of forced conversion        and marriage
has received a threatening letter wherein she has been warned that she will be killed if she did not stop her work.”

No worries.

The Vast Majority of Peaceful Muslims will swiftly rise up, rebuke those who issued the threats, and provide free round-the-clock protection to Jacqueline Sultan.

Won’t they?

Google


n.b.
Moslems in Pakistan routinely abduct Christian girls and young women, and then they are forced to marry one of their [moslem] abductors.

The Pakistani police are actual cohorts with many of the kidnappers, and they routinely refuse to help the families of the abducted girls.      ['RULE OF LAW' people ? ]




Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Frank on May 15th, 2017 at 7:49pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 2:29pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Cute.  Focusing.

Grendel, since when were the 'Holy Lands' property of the West?



Er... since they became Holy.

You have heard about Christianity, haven't you?




Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by John Smith on May 15th, 2017 at 7:50pm

Frank wrote on May 15th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
Er... since they became Holy.


so before that they were arab lands?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Frank on May 15th, 2017 at 10:10pm

John Smith wrote on May 15th, 2017 at 7:50pm:

Frank wrote on May 15th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
Er... since they became Holy.


so before that they were arab lands?



No... Jewish. And Greek.

The Arabs left Arabia only in the 8th century when they conquered the Roman Empire, including the Levant, North Africa, Persia, etc. None of these were Arab before the Arab Muslims overran them. And they remained a minority for centuries.




Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 15th, 2017 at 10:18pm

Frank wrote on May 15th, 2017 at 7:49pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 2:29pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
The Arab Muslims have been conquering and destroying western civilisation for 1400 years. They have only focused on each other since the west stopped them focusing on Europe and Africa, in particular raiding them for slaves. They do not choose to fight each other and only attack us if we attack them. They choose to attack us and only attack each other when they have nothing better to do.


Cute.  Focusing.

Grendel, since when were the 'Holy Lands' property of the West?



Er... since they became Holy.

You have heard about Christianity, haven't you?


What made them the property of the West?  The birth of Jesus Christ?

Are you serious or a far kwit?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by John Smith on May 15th, 2017 at 10:27pm

Frank wrote on May 15th, 2017 at 10:10pm:
No... Jewish. And Greek.


You understand you are trying to use religion to describe a race of people right?  :D :D :D

The jews and the arabs were the same people before religion took a foot hold.



Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 16th, 2017 at 3:38pm
Oh dear
the ignorance abounds doesn't it when it comes to Trolls...

Even after the point was made.

maybe some research and listing of tribes may help...  nah...  just wasting everyone's time is enough to make a Troll happy. :D

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by sir prince duke alevine on May 16th, 2017 at 11:42pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 12:03pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 11:19am:
1948=the State of Israel.  Would you like me to explain Kuwait?



So there is Islamic jihad against civilians in the West because the UN recognised Israel in 1948?

And you really, really think that the sunnis and the shia are murdering each other in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria because of Israel? That jihadis like Boko Haram, the Taliban, ISIS, the jihadis of Thailand, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Africa and elsewhere are murdering civilians because of Israel?  That Hib ul Tahrir and the Muslim Bruvvahood want an Islamic caliphate across the globe because of Israel? That Muslim apostates are killed by other Muslims because of Israel?

You cannot possibly believe this nonsense. Nobody is that stupid.


The 'Arabs' have been at each others throats for centuries.  We need to keep our nose out of that, and I suppose we did originally start meddling with the first Crusade.

...wait...so it wasn't the West then? Or was it the West? Looks like you're a little confused.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Karnal on May 17th, 2017 at 12:08am
And the old boy pretends Arabia's not really Arabian, as only the old boy can.

You couldn't make it up.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 17th, 2017 at 9:29am
So apparently Arabia has always existed.... :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Karnal on May 17th, 2017 at 9:33am

Grendel wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 9:29am:
So apparently Arabia has always existed.... :D :D :D :D :D


Just like "Britain", eh?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 17th, 2017 at 9:38am
Eh buddy you made the spurious claim not me.
Shot yourself in the foot whilst it was in your mouth eh...  not a good idea.
Now you create strawmen to hide your obvious embarrassment at your ignorance.  Tsk, tsk tsk...

Now where did I mention Britain?

Oh right....  nowhere... :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 18th, 2017 at 7:24pm

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Quote:
It could be argued that the direct consequences of Bush's war on terror started in 1948?


Is that what I said or is that you verballing as you do often with many Members?

[quote]What exactly are you blaming the west for?


The 'chit.'


Quote:
The Taliban had declared war on the US Aussie.


Really?  Show me where?

Was is it not Saudis who were behind 9/11 Effendi?[/quote]

Aussie, would it be fair to say that when you insist we blame the west, you don't actually know what we should blame the west for?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 18th, 2017 at 8:07pm
No.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 18th, 2017 at 8:16pm
So why are you so afraid to say what we should blame the west for?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 18th, 2017 at 8:24pm

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2017 at 8:16pm:
So why are you so afraid to say what we should blame the west for?

I'm not.


Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 18th, 2017 at 8:26pm
So not only will you not say what we should blame the west for, you won't say why you won't say?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 18th, 2017 at 8:32pm

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2017 at 8:26pm:
So not only will you not say what we should blame the west for, you won't say why you won't say?


No.  Happy to say, and I have a zillion times.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Frank on May 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2017 at 7:24pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Quote:
It could be argued that the direct consequences of Bush's war on terror started in 1948?


Is that what I said or is that you verballing as you do often with many Members?

[quote]What exactly are you blaming the west for?


The 'chit.'

[quote]The Taliban had declared war on the US Aussie.


Really?  Show me where?

Was is it not Saudis who were behind 9/11 Effendi?[/quote]

Aussie, would it be fair to say that when you insist we blame the west, you don't actually know what we should blame the west for?[/quote]
Blame the West for everything.

That way he doesn't have to think. Happy.




Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Karnal on May 18th, 2017 at 9:00pm

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2017 at 7:24pm:

Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Quote:
It could be argued that the direct consequences of Bush's war on terror started in 1948?


Is that what I said or is that you verballing as you do often with many Members?

[quote]What exactly are you blaming the west for?


The 'chit.'

[quote]The Taliban had declared war on the US Aussie.


Really?  Show me where?

Was is it not Saudis who were behind 9/11 Effendi?


Aussie, would it be fair to say that when you insist we blame the west, you don't actually know what we should blame the west for?[/quote]
Blame the West for everything.

That way he doesn't have to think. Happy.



[/quote]

Forgive me, old boy, but you don't sound too happy.

You came here to spread misery, no?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 19th, 2017 at 10:04am
::) :D ::) :D ::)

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 19th, 2017 at 7:33pm
Perhaps Aussie actually thinks that "the chit" is all the explanation one could need for what he blames the west for. Nothing would surprise me.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 19th, 2017 at 7:37pm

freediver wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 7:33pm:
Perhaps Aussie actually thinks that "the chit" is all the explanation one could need for what he blames the west for. Nothing would surprise me.


Why do you want me to keep repeating myself, Effendi?  I have particularised the 'chit' a zillion times.

You might enjoy repeating the same question.....but.....I have no need to repeat the answers and they will not change no matter how many times you ask the.....same question.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 19th, 2017 at 7:53pm

Quote:
I have particularised the 'chit' a zillion times.


You did say it started in 1948, but that was right before you said it was a direct result of GWB's intervention in the middle east.

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Aussie on May 19th, 2017 at 8:26pm

freediver wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 7:53pm:

Quote:
I have particularised the 'chit' a zillion times.


You did say it started in 1948, but that was right before you said it was a direct result of GWB's intervention in the middle east.



I've said that Effendi, but that is not what the chit is.  To summarize....the chit is the consequence of Western interference in the ME.

You know.....like hundreds of thousands leaving their Homes after we destroyed them....and they somehow found their way to Europe as a result.

Have you not seen me post that 'chit' before?

There's more I have also posted about the 'chit.'

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by freediver on May 20th, 2017 at 8:50am
You have offered a variety of versions Aussie. It's hard to tell which ones you really mean.

When you hear Islamic terrorism, is this what you think of? The west is to blame for Muslims moving to Europe?

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 20th, 2017 at 10:39am
Don't ask Aussie...  his head is full of "chit" nothing reasoned or logical or real escapes.
He's been told and still truth escapes him.
In fact over the years he's been told a great many things and all he keeps saying is provide a link... very worrisome.

Islam is on the victimhood express...  everything bad is everyone else's fault. That could mean those of a different Islamic Sect or The West....  or the USA....  It seems Muslims have a habit of blaming others. :D :D :D

Title: Re: Blame the West
Post by Grendel on May 20th, 2017 at 11:03am
Would you care to rewrite history then karnal....  I'd be happy to read your Dr Seuss version. :D :D :D

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