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Message started by whiteknight on May 7th, 2017 at 7:56am

Title: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by whiteknight on May 7th, 2017 at 7:56am
The very possible path to a 30-hour working week

Sydney Morning Herald
May 4 2017

This year, May Day fell after a run of three consecutive four-day working weeks. If you're lucky enough to live in Queensland, then the Labour Day public holiday was be the culmination of a month of shorter working weeks.

Easter symbolises renewal and hope, and the Easter public holidays and Anzac Day give us a sense of how changing the way we work could create a different future.

In this future, we all have more time for our intimate relationships, building communities and enjoying more leisure. A future in which every weekend, for everyone, is a three-day weekend is a future worth fighting for.

Legally, logistically and financially, it's entirely feasible to move incrementally to a 30-hour working week over eight to 10 years. This gradual reduction in the working week would ensure no worker suffers a drop in their real pay.

Each year, we could reduce full-time weekly working hours by between 30 minutes and an hour, while modestly increasing wages to cover increased living costs. The long phase-in time would also allow businesses to plan and adjust accordingly.

Moreover, from a legal point of view, all we really need is a simple amendment to the Fair Work Act to change the national employment standard for a full-time working week. It now sits at 38 hours a week before workers receive overtime. It could be replaced with a simple table that sets out the year and date, as well as the phased-in full-time weekly working hours until it hits 30.

Technically, the changes are simple. The effects of a shorter working week, however, would be profound.

How did you feel coming into Easter this year? Personally, I was tired and stressed. The few extra days of rest and reflection restored my energy levels and allowed me to reset my thought processes.

For those of us in (usually greater than) full-time work, shorter working hours offer the promise of healthier, more balanced and enriched lives.

For instance, a shorter full-time working week contributes to better mental-health outcomes for workers. Australian National University researchers analysed the data of 8000 workers who took part in the Australian Bureau of Statistics' household, income and labour dynamics survey. They found that working beyond 39 hours a week put employees at risk of developing mental-health problems.

Yet average Australian full-time working hours currently stand at 42.28 hours a week. That's right: the average working week places full-time workers' mental health at risk. This is insane.   :(

This imbalance of overwork is linked to the suffering and dislocation of underemployed and unemployed workers. The Australia Institute's survey of working hours in 2016 found full-time workers put in an average of more than five hours of unpaid overtime a week.   :(

Let's tease this out. There are about 8.2 million full-time workers. So spreading out this unpaid overtime for just these full-time workers could create 38-hour-a-week jobs for more than one million Australians.

Of course, we can't assume that removing every hour of unpaid overtime could translate into a new hour of work for underemployed and unemployed workers. Some unpaid overtime is unnecessary work that no one should do. Some relates to peak times in a project or campaign, which might not result in further and ongoing work.

Some of it, however, is work that could be done by other workers. Even if a minority of unpaid overtime was translated into new jobs, it would still change the lives of hundreds of thousands of our neighbours.

The stress of a full-time worker, therefore, is mirrored in the stress of a worker seeking more hours, like two subatomic particles stuck in a state of quantum entanglement – the workers may be separated by a large distance, say between Sydney and Melbourne, but their welfare cannot be described independently. We may experience our stress and anxiety individually but fundamentally it is connected.

Unemployment and underemployment itself cause great suffering and anguish. Moreover, underemployed and unemployed workers must a welfare system that assumes every worker should be able to find full-time permanent work.

This is just not the case anymore. We no longer offer enough opportunities for our workforce. There are about 20 job seekers for every job vacancy. Even when there is a vacancy, it's often contingent or part-time work. For instance, in March this year, the Australian workforce set a new record: part-time workers performed 17 per cent of all hours worked.   :(

As productivity improves and technology changes, we are shifting to a new world of work. Over the last three decades, average weekly hours worked by all Australians declined by more than three hours. With the continued growth of insecure work and automation, there is no reason why this trend should change.

Shorter working weeks will be part of our future. We face a choice, however, about how we get there. Either we continue on our path of increasing inequality and insecurity, where short-term benefits go to a handful of corporations and privileged actors, or we gradually reduce our working hours to enrich every community.

For the sake of a more balanced Australia, we must once again start trading our productivity gains for increased time to live our lives.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 8:04am
do you not think   a shorter working week   will mean needing more money to spend with all those extra leisure hours..

would we be happy with doctors ambos and firemen working 30 hours a week..and police of course...

could be tricky...

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by whiteknight on May 7th, 2017 at 8:10am
Yet average Australian full-time working hours currently stand at 42.28 hours a week.   :( 

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 8:15am

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:10am:
Yet average Australian full-time working hours currently stand at 42.28 hours a week.   :( 



really I dont know anyone that does that....my sil works in CITS  and he is working all hours....those he teaches think nothing of ringing him late on a Sunday night...... but which industries work those hours whitenight?... and how would we go from those hours to 30 hours   what effect would that have on the country as a whole?......

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 8:16am
I am not challenging it.. just interested in how it will work
for a prosperous country as without that we are nowheresville.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by whiteknight on May 7th, 2017 at 8:19am
This imbalance of overwork is linked to the suffering and dislocation of underemployed and unemployed workers. The Australia Institute's survey of working hours in 2016 found full-time workers put in an average of more than five hours of unpaid overtime a week.   :(

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 8:22am

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:19am:
This imbalance of overwork is linked to the suffering and dislocation of underemployed and unemployed workers. The Australia Institute's survey of working hours in 2016 found full-time workers put in an average of more than five hours of unpaid overtime a week.   :(


did they say which industries as I do believe thats important.....when I worked  I had a bundy card and got paid no matter what....

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by whiteknight on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 8:43am

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am:
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    



well I would have hoped thoe who did the survey would have said..

if you were not questioned in the survey   why would you know???..

so thats two of us who never did unpaid o.t..

good on us working in the right industries...

I do believe the hospitality industry needs looking at...

my grandson looking for after school work...did a stint as a kitchen hand in a club.. and found out the 10pm finish time wasnt that at all..... ::).. it isnt the right thing to do really..  its the only industry I know of that gets away with it.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Dnarever on May 7th, 2017 at 8:48am
Back in the 50's and 60's it was argued that the technology improvements over the next 50 years would mean a 30 hour week by the year 2000.

As well as shorter working hours driven by technology and productivity we would see big improvements to pretty much solve poverty across the whole planet. We were all going to be prosperous with a lot of leisure time.

What they failed to understand was the impact of greed. Instead of the boon being used to reshape the world it was allowed to end up in the hands of a small number of very wealthy very greedy and selfish people.

I think we can safely give the world governments of the last 50 years a fail mark, they have let us all down.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Dnarever on May 7th, 2017 at 8:51am

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am:
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    


I did about 4.5 extra hours this week that would be under my average. I recently done a week with about 20 additional hours but that is not typical.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by whiteknight on May 7th, 2017 at 9:07am
Unpaid overtime and dodgy internships: When employment becomes exploitation   :(

ABC News
Posted 11 Oct 2016.


You're hunched over your keyboard, shovelling last night's leftovers into your mouth, struggling to meet the next deadline.

It's a familiar scene in many workplaces: taking a lunch break no longer means leaving your desk.   

Or you're at home making dinner and your smart phone begins to vibrate. Your boss is apologetic, but she needs you to redraft the document you've been working on all week — by tomorrow morning.

For many of us, such scenarios represent the modern world of work, but that doesn't make them acceptable.

Economist Jim Stanford, the director of the Centre for Future Work at the Australia Institute, has calculated that as many as two-thirds of Australian workers are now regularly expected to put in some form of unpaid overtime.

And Dr Stanford said the situation is getting worse, not better.

"If you are a full-time worker, on average you are reporting about six hours a week of unpaid work for your employer," he said.

"That's a fair amount in a week, but add it up over a year and it's staggering — that's over 300 hours."

Calculated at the average Australian wage, that represents around $12,000 worth of labour per year per employee, Dr Stanford said.

"If most Australians thought who could they give a generous gift of $12,000 to, their employer wouldn't be at the top of the list," he said.
Part-time workers most vulnerable

Every year for the past eight years the Australia Institute has conducted a survey on work-life balance and unpaid overtime.

The 2016 report, due out in November, will show the issue crosses all professions and industries.

Australian Bureau of Statistics figures suggest that around 90 per cent of all new jobs created in Australia over the past 12 months were part-time or casual.

It is this group, according to Dr Stanford, who are most vulnerable.

"You have part-time workers who might only get 10 or 15 or 20 hours a week, and even they are being asked to stay longer and work for free," he said.

"Our survey showed that on average, even part-time workers are asked to do four hours of unpaid work a week.

"In their case, where their incomes are very low because they aren't getting enough hours, I think this unpaid work is especially exploitive.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Ye Grappler on May 7th, 2017 at 10:18am
You mean the government is going to mandate a minimum thirty hours for every worker?  That'll be the day...  8-)

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 10:28am

Dnarever wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:51am:

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am:
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    


I did about 4.5 extra hours this week that would be under my average. I recently done a week with about 20 additional hours but that is not typical.



dna   if that 20 hours  unpaid are you not doing someone out of a JOB..

well thats how I see it...

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Ye Grappler on May 7th, 2017 at 10:53am

cods wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 10:28am:

Dnarever wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:51am:

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am:
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    


I did about 4.5 extra hours this week that would be under my average. I recently done a week with about 20 additional hours but that is not typical.



dna   if that 20 hours  unpaid are you not doing someone out of a JOB..

well thats how I see it...


If two DNAs did that, they would be cutting someone out of a job, but part-time casuals on 20 hours don't count.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 11:04am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 10:53am:

cods wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 10:28am:

Dnarever wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:51am:

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am:
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    


I did about 4.5 extra hours this week that would be under my average. I recently done a week with about 20 additional hours but that is not typical.



dna   if that 20 hours  unpaid are you not doing someone out of a JOB..

well thats how I see it...


If two DNAs did that, they would be cutting someone out of a job, but part-time casuals on 20 hours don't count.



why not.?  and according to whitenight   a lot are working 42 hour weeks for 36 hour pay....how many jobs there....it all adds up.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Redmond Neck on May 7th, 2017 at 11:54am
I worked for a large stock market listed company some years ago for a few years and they didnt pay overtime, they regarded you as being on a total salary package that did at times require you putting in additional hours without extra pay.

I think it happens more than you realise cods

I also recall being on a holiday in Thailand with a senior public servant who spent a lot of time on his mobile phone with work. No overtime for those guys

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by cods on May 7th, 2017 at 11:59am

Redmond Neck wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 11:54am:
I worked for a large stock market listed company some years ago for a few years and they didnt pay overtime, they regarded you as being on a total salary package that did at times require you putting in additional hours without extra pay.

I think it happens more than you realise cods

I also recall being on a holiday in Thailand with a senior public servant who spent a lot of time on his mobile phone with work. No overtime for those guys



well packages usually come with cars and mobiles  and in the case of some public servants they get time off in lieu.... I am not saying it doesnt happen.. in fact I mentioned the hospitality industry which covers a huge amount of business....


Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by miketrees on May 7th, 2017 at 12:02pm


The company I work for now, expects you to work 50 hours per week as soon as you are a manager,, as mentioned before it becomes part of the package.

I was doing it for a while,,,, not any more.


I know if a thirty hour week was introduced businesses would try and use more sham contractors.
Or employ people under two businesses and split the hours between them.

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Gordon on May 7th, 2017 at 12:12pm

Redmond Neck wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 11:54am:
I worked for a large stock market listed company some years ago for a few years and they didnt pay overtime, they regarded you as being on a total salary package that did at times require you putting in additional hours without extra pay.

I think it happens more than you realise cods

I also recall being on a holiday in Thailand with a senior public servant who spent a lot of time on his mobile phone with work. No overtime for those guys


Years ago I used to do 24hr rotational shifts and everybody got moved to packages. It was good for a few years because although the company had a culture of not being the market leader in actual pay, they were very soft on the hours you worked and I'd often nick off very early.

When I moved to management is was brutal. You pick up the phone when it rings, you come in when there's an issue. In theory you could take time in lieu but try actually doing it.

Now at the same company the worker bees do their hours, no early marks and sometimes do unpaid OT but the lower managers get slammed.

Glad I'm out :)

Title: Re: The Possible Path To A 30 Hour Working Week
Post by Dnarever on May 7th, 2017 at 12:58pm

cods wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 10:28am:

Dnarever wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:51am:

whiteknight wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:30am:
I am not sure which industries.  I have never done unpaid overtime.   :(    


I did about 4.5 extra hours this week that would be under my average. I recently done a week with about 20 additional hours but that is not typical.



dna   if that 20 hours  unpaid are you not doing someone out of a JOB..

well thats how I see it...


I have never believed in unpaid time but the reality is if you are working on an employment contract in a specialised area there is an expectation that the work will be done, I have never had an issue with a little extra as long as it isn't being done to undermine the efforts of others that I have seen done. For me the reality is that I need to work and my next job is unlikely to be obtainable so I have to do what I have to do. In this case nobody else was going to be employed for a one off it would have just been another current employee less capable expected to complete the work. Some argue that it is included in the package but often it isn't really.

I am not complaining - I like to work.

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