These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights

TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation.

Meanwhile, in Burundi, a group of 26 imams — in an organization called Alliance of Imams of the North Corridor for Humanitarian Development (AICNDH) — is striving to defend the rights of women and girls in a country now consumed with civil strife. In various mosques across the northern part of the country, these imams recently delivered 12 khutbahs, or speeches, on women’s rights in Islam. AICNDH, in partnership with Muslims for Progressive Values, will be hosting a series of conferences at universities and schools in Burundi over the coming months, also on Muslim women’s rights.

Together, these imams are the brave #ImamsForShe: religious and lay leaders, Islamic scholars, men and women. They debunk the misogynistic interpretation of Islam. They fight against the violation of the rights of women and girls in the Muslim world and beyond. These are the imams we need to empower and mobilize.

For many years in our Muslim communities, we have heard from too many hate-mongering imams, whose Wahhabi theology is radical, racist and supremacist. Their interpretation of Islam is based on what “Sharia law” dictates. But Sharia law is a man-made construct. Sharia law is a mash-up of medieval, misogynistic political leaders’ extrapolation of the Quran, pre-Islamic norms, cultural norms of the day and hadiths (secondary texts of what Prophet Muhammad supposedly said and did, compiled by men more than 100 years after his death).

Instead of challenging these false “truths,” the American mainstream media popularizes them, like when the Islamist imam Anjem Choudary was featured on CBS in a “60 Minutes” episode; he is also a favorite of Fox News. The ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s propagation of Islamist theology makes her complicit as well, and she is popular on media outlets from the right to left, including NPR.

Less visible in the public discourse is another set of imams who have an inclusive worldview. Far too often, they are shut out by Muslim communities, slandered for challenging the misogynistic interpretations of the faith and, in some instances, killed by radicals.

Muslims for Progressive Values is a grassroots, faith-based human rights organization. For years we have been in search of these inclusive imams. We have been elated to partner with them, but we’ve also discovered that they recoil in fear at the thought of going public with their views.

Borrowing from the United Nations Women’s #HeForShe campaign, promoted by actress Emma Watson, we designed a new campaign called #ImamsForShe. We need to counter the domination of Islamist imams in our societies with #ImamsForShe and to actually improve the lives of all human beings, particularly women.

In March of last year in New York, at the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women session, we launched the campaign to a packed room of diplomats and non-governmental organizations hungry for #ImamsForShe to positively affect real lives on the ground. We reached 125,000 people on social media, were featured on Voices of New York, written up in a Danish newspaper, praised and promoted by the minister for education, culture and science in The Netherlands and, most importantly, endorsed and championed by imams and human rights defenders of Muslim heritage.

On March 23, we will take this initiative to the next level with a workshop that will pair up imams from various Muslim backgrounds with secular women’s rights defenders at the U.N.’s 60th session of the Commission on the Status of Women in New York.

The #ImamsForShe campaign is meant to empower women to educate themselves about their rights in Islam so that no mullah or husband can deprive them or their daughters of their right to decide whom they choose to marry. These imams put forward an uplifting, inclusive and compassionate expression of Islam. They challenge female genital mutilation, child marriages, male “guardianship” and the death sentence of daughters who supposedly dishonor the family name.

Imams in the Muslim world are, for the most part, highly regarded. It is a hierarchical system that is not going to disappear. But with that status of authority comes great responsibility. That is why working within that system is necessary if we are to positively affect people’s lives. We need #ImamsForShe to counter radicalism with the same conviction as the hate-mongering imams.

A Pew Forum report last year on world religions states that by the year 2050, the world Muslim population will bump up against the Christian world population. What sort of adherents to Islam should we hope for? The Islamist ones who have destroyed historical sites, churches, mosques and have enslaved girls and pushed gays off tall buildings? Or Muslims with an inclusive worldview?

The choice is clear.

High Commissioner Zeid Ra’ad Al-Hussein put it perfectly: “We must persevere together until we bend the course of humanity’s future to a destination more hopeful and enlightened, in which human decency is the only currency of human interaction.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ani-zonneveld/islam-womens-rights-imams-for-she_b_9411194.html

You are a bloody joke!

"Islam........Women's Rights"

Have you been on the plonk with Cods?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:26pm:

You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Didn't read the article i take it.

No surprises.

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:26pm:

You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

If muslims want it - why not?

These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it.

While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved.

What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century.

As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam.

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:26pm:

You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No. no you can see women's rights in action in some of the great muslim countries around the world like saudi arabia, and north africa.


Their behaviour is only slightly more civil than fkking chimps.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 1:05pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm: You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No. no you can see women's rights in action in some of the great muslim countries around the world like saudi arabia, and north africa. Their behaviour is only slightly more civil than fkking chimps.

Another one who didn't read the article, just had a little reaction.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:53pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm: You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If muslims want it - why not? These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it. While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved. What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century. As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam.

No adult cares what any backward religion has to say about anything, all fairy tales are based on lies and delusions.

The only way religious cretins will evolve, is when the accept they have been deluded and everything they believe is wrong.


Until then they are be treat an intellectually deficient.

75% of all Muslims are Moderate & Peaceful.......Most Muslims are therefore not trying to hurt or overthrow Western Civilizations & Governments.

Sounds all sorts of warm & rosy........Right?

Well, lets look at the big picture.......

1. How many Muslims are there in the World?

2. How many Muslims are left in the 'other' 25%??

3. Who makes up that other 25% of Muslims???

Let's hear it from someone that actually knows first hand:

[media width=625]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUZ8QIrjRo[/media]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUZ8QIrjRo


1. 1,200,000,000  to  1,600,000,000   +/- 1.6 billion

2.    180,000,000  to  400,000,000      +/- 400 Million

3. Radical Islam, Muslims that are dedicated to the destruction & annihilation of Western Civilization & it's people.


Now, still feel all sorts of warm & rosy???

Panther wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 1:40pm:

75% of all Muslims are Moderate & Peaceful.......Most Muslims are therefore not trying to hurt or overthrow Western Civilizations & Governments. Sounds all sorts of warm & rosy........Right? Well, lets look at the big picture....... How many Muslims are there in the World? Who makes up that other 25% of Muslims??? Let's hear it from someone that actually knows first hand: [media width=625]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUZ8QIrjRo[/media] Now, still feel all sorts of warm & rosy???

Brigitte Gabriel (Arabic: بريجيت غابرييل; born Hanan Qahwaji,[3] 21 October 1964) is an American conservative journalist, author, political lecturer, anti-Islam activist, and founder of two non-profit political organizations, the American Congress For Truth and ACT! for America. ACT! for America has been widely described as anti-Muslim.

ACT! for America
Her organization, ACT! for America, has been described by the New York Times as drawing "on three rather religious and partisan streams in American politics: evangelical Christian conservatives, hard-line defenders of Israel (both Jews and Christians) and Tea Party Republicans."[2] According to the Washington Post, the organization "touted as its “first accomplishment” its 2008 campaign to shut down a Minnesota Islamic school."[20] The Southern Poverty Law Center has the described Act for America as "the largest grassroots anti-Muslim group in the country,"[21][22] and the Council on American-Islamic Relations has described it as "one of the main sources of growing anti-Muslim bigotry in our nation".[23] According to the Guardian, the organization has been "widely identified as anti-Muslim".[23]
According to Peter Beinart of the Atlantic, "the organization has condemned cities with large Muslim populations for serving halal food in public schools. In 2013, its Houston chapter urged members to “protest” food companies that certify their meat as compliant with Islamic dietary law. ACT tries to dissuade Jews and Christians from conducting interfaith dialogue with Muslims. And in state after state, it has lobbied state legislatures and school boards to purge textbooks of references that create “an inaccurate comparison between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.”"[24]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel


Thanks for the "impartial" link, Panther.

You'll understand if i don't bother watching it, won't you?

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 1:44pm:

Panther wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 1:40pm: 75% of all Muslims are Moderate & Peaceful.......Most Muslims are therefore not trying to hurt or overthrow Western Civilizations & Governments. Sounds all sorts of warm & rosy........Right? Well, lets look at the big picture....... 1. How many Muslims are there in the World? 2. How many Muslims are left in the 'other' 25%?? 3. Who makes up that other 25% of Muslims??? Let's hear it from someone that actually knows first hand: [media width=625]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUZ8QIrjRo[/media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUZ8QIrjRo 1. 1,200,000,000  to  1,600,000,000   +/- 1.6 billion 2.    180,000,000  to  400,000,000      +/- 400 Million 3. Radical Islam, Muslims that are dedicated to the destruction & annihilation of Western Civilization & it's people. Now, still feel all sorts of warm & rosy??? Brigitte Gabriel (Arabic: بريجيت غابرييل; born Hanan Qahwaji,[3] 21 October 1964) is an American conservative journalist, author, political lecturer, anti-Islam activist, and founder of two non-profit political organizations, the American Congress For Truth and ACT! for America. ACT! for America has been widely described as anti-Muslim. ACT! for America Her organization, ACT! for America, has been described by the New York Times as drawing "on three rather religious and partisan streams in American politics: evangelical Christian conservatives, hard-line defenders of Israel (both Jews and Christians) and Tea Party Republicans."[2] According to the Washington Post, the organization "touted as its “first accomplishment” its 2008 campaign to shut down a Minnesota Islamic school."[20] The Southern Poverty Law Center has the described Act for America as "the largest grassroots anti-Muslim group in the country,"[21][22] and the Council on American-Islamic Relations has described it as "one of the main sources of growing anti-Muslim bigotry in our nation".[23] According to the Guardian, the organization has been "widely identified as anti-Muslim".[23] According to Peter Beinart of the Atlantic, "the organization has condemned cities with large Muslim populations for serving halal food in public schools. In 2013, its Houston chapter urged members to “protest” food companies that certify their meat as compliant with Islamic dietary law. ACT tries to dissuade Jews and Christians from conducting interfaith dialogue with Muslims. And in state after state, it has lobbied state legislatures and school boards to purge textbooks of references that create “an inaccurate comparison between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.”"[24] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel Thanks for the "impartial" link, Panther. You'll understand if i don't bother watching it, won't you?

To deniers & enablers ...... FACTS are always dangerous ......so I understand....

I just hope that there are others who wish to know the FACTS.....Facts from the Mouth of a woman born in the Middle East, a woman who lived in the Middle East...the home of her family...... So, I just hope that there are others who wish to know the FACTS ......who do not wish to remain ignorant of the FACTS.......you don't mind if they watch, do you...it's only fitting that they have a free choice....no?


[media width=625]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACpy7fLjFo[/media]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACpy7fLjFo

It's not free choice. It's propaganda.

Dd you read the article, Panther?

I read it.  Did you? 


Quote:

Together, these imams are the brave #ImamsForShe: religious and lay leaders, Islamic scholars, men and women. They debunk the misogynistic interpretation of Islam.

Why are they described as brave Mothra?  Why would they need to be brave? And they don't "debunk" the misogynistic interpretation of Islam, this article confirms its reality.


Quote:

For many years in our Muslim communities, we have heard from too many hate-mongering imams, whose Wahhabi theology is radical, racist and supremacist.

Say it ain't so Mothra!  ;D ;D


Quote:

... Far too often, they are shut out by Muslim communities, slandered for challenging the misogynistic interpretations of the faith and, in some instances, killed by radicals.

Well durrrrr.  Religion of peace innit.


Quote:

For years we have been in search of these inclusive imams. We have been elated to partner with them, but we’ve also discovered that they recoil in fear at the thought of going public with their views.

I imagine it was a long search, and of course they recoil in fear, have these clowns only just recently discovered that dissent is death?

PS Mothra, I have noted in that article there are mentions of Muslims without prefacing it with "some".  You should take them to task for that.  It's not much but it is the only point you have ever had.  :)

PPS Thanks for posting an article that confirms the misogyny of Islam.  Apologists clowns usually deny it and I suspect you do as well, for you this article was an own goal.  8-)

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:53pm:

What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights.

Why O why do you always leave yourself so wide open to needing to be corrected - again and again?

Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with the liberal freedoms we enjoy today, let alone women's liberation.

On the contrary, the churches have been in the vanguard of those who have opposed every freedom we enjoy today, from gay rights to women's lib, from divorce to legal abortions, from sports on Sunday to shops opening on Sundays, from contraceptives and the 'Rhythm Method' ... and a whole stack of laws that were only overturned and junked through the work of secular activists and their sympathisers.

Christianity has for centuries been a yolk upon the back of the public - not a parachute of enlightened thinking.

Just precisely what, Secret, do you think you are illuminating me about?

Duplicate deleted by Panther

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

Just precisely what, Secret, do you think you are illuminating me about?

I doubt you can ever be illuminated.

But focus your mind, why do you think that people who oppose misogyny in Islam need to be brave? 

If "Islam Is Compatible With Women's Rights" why are some Muslims who advocate for women's rights hard to find and afraid of being killed?

Again thanks for your article.  Note I prefaced Muslims with "some".   ;D ;D ;D

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm: Just precisely what, Secret, do you think you are illuminating me about? I doubt you can ever be illuminated. But focus your mind, why do you think that people who oppose misogyny in Islam need to be brave?  If "Islam Is Compatible With Women's Rights" why are some Muslims who advocate for women's rights hard to find and afraid of being killed? Again thanks for your article.  Note I prefaced Muslims with "some".   ;D ;D ;D

Focus now Secret, how does the article contradict anything i've ever said?

How is it "an own goal"?

(this should be good).

Hurry up now, i knock off in an hour.

And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:21pm:

And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

hehehe, you are the one trying to build the case that Islam is compatible with women's rights, I am just pointing out that you should have read your article because all it does is confirm Islam is mysogynistic, moreover it confirms that finding anyone to advocate for women's rights is hard because some Muslims will kill them for doing so.

Religion of peace and women's rights innit.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm: What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Why O why do you always leave yourself so wide open to needing to be corrected - again and again? Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with the liberal freedoms we enjoy today, let alone women's liberation. On the contrary, the churches have been in the vanguard of those who have opposed every freedom we enjoy today, from gay rights to women's lib, from divorce to legal abortions, from sports on Sunday to shops opening on Sundays, from contraceptives and the 'Rhythm Method' ... and a whole stack of laws that were only overturned and junked through the work of secular activists and their sympathisers. Christianity has for centuries been a yolk upon the back of the public - not a parachute of enlightened thinking.

Herb, you are quite correct. Christianity is not liberal. Christians have been forced to accept the liberalisation of society. But fundamentally, its still the same dumb stuff they have been preaching for centuries. There is only one God, Jesus is God and his son at the same time. When on earth, he had supernatural powers. His mother was touched by an angel to fall pregnant. He rose from the grave. For Christians, any moral values are secondary to Jesus being part of the divine threesome, so there goes monotheism. Its just paganism in convoluted form.

However, I would like to point out that it was Christian missionaries who were responsible for the end of cannibalism in Melanesia and Polynesia, not Western liberalism or law. And if anyone wants to push the line that cannibalism in those islands was only a matter of ritual, they need to read the personal accounts of educated men who witnessed the native's relish for human flesh.

Understandably, the subject is a kind of No-No these days, because we do not want to make their descendants feel bad. But if you can think of a way to embarrass Europeans, feel free, its open season in multicultural circles.

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm: And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights? hehehe, you are the one trying to build the case that Islam is compatible with women's rights, I am just pointing out that you should have read your article because all it does is confirm Islam is mysogynistic, moreover it confirms that finding anyone to advocate for women's rights is hard because some Muslims will kill them for doing so. Religion of peace and women's rights innit.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I most certainly read the article, Secret, and what is more, it wasn't news to me. I've long been familiar with the thoughts and works of Muslim feminists who effortlessly reconcile their faith with their ideology.

Would you deny their existence?

Or the existence of these imams who seamlessly incorporate women's rights into their religious framework?

The many Muslims women's rights advocacy groups? Denying their existence too, are you?

So, it logically follows (you are trying to be logical aren't you?) that Islam is compatible with women's rights.

Your problem is the same as it has always been, you judge the entire religion by the worst behaved within it. It's not all your fault. Malleable minds are prone to indoctrination and Islam is poorly represented through the world's media.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:42pm:

The many Muslims women's rights advocacy groups? Denying their existence too, are you? So, it logically follows (you are trying to be logical aren't you?) that Islam is compatible with women's rights.

In your mind, the presence of advocacy groups leads to the logical conclusion that Islam is compatible with women's rights. 

And to prove that Islam is logically compatible with women's rights you post an article that says advocates are hard to find because they are afraid of being killed for advocating.   

Mothra logic.    :D :D :D :D

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:51pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:42pm: The many Muslims women's rights advocacy groups? Denying their existence too, are you? So, it logically follows (you are trying to be logical aren't you?) that Islam is compatible with women's rights. In your mind, the presence of advocacy groups leads to the logical conclusion that Islam is compatible with women's rights.  And to prove that Islam is logically compatible with women's rights you post an article that says advocates are hard to find because they are afraid of being killed for advocating.    Mothra logic.    :D :D :D :D

Indeed. Islam is demonstrably compatible with women's rights.

And not hard to find. A simple google will set you right. Give it a go.

;D ;D ;D
mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:54pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:51pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:42pm: The many Muslims women's rights advocacy groups? Denying their existence too, are you? So, it logically follows (you are trying to be logical aren't you?) that Islam is compatible with women's rights. In your mind, the presence of advocacy groups leads to the logical conclusion that Islam is compatible with women's rights.  And to prove that Islam is logically compatible with women's rights you post an article that says advocates are hard to find because they are afraid of being killed for advocating.    Mothra logic.    :D :D :D :D Indeed. Islam is demonstrably compatible with women's rights. And not hard to find. A simple google will set you right. Give it a go.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

Just precisely what, Secret, do you think you are illuminating me about?

Ya know mothball, if you overuse a particular word, it just shows your LACK of grammatical ability.........BINGO!

Actually you should google again because the article you posted to support Islam being compatible with women's rights says nothing of the sort.

It says that advocacy for women's rights is hard to find, espoused only by a minority and deadly for its advocates. Religion of peace kills them.

It takes a special sort of dope to conclude from that that Islam is compatible with women's rights. 

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

Actually you should google again because the article you posted to support Islam being compatible with women's rights says nothing of the sort. It says that advocacy for women's rights is hard to find, espoused only by a minority and deadly for its advocates. Religion of peace kills them. It takes a special sort of dope to conclude from that that Islam is compatible with women's rights.

Which is why I asked mothra if she was intellectually impaired or suffering some sort of retardation, a question she either does not understand or is too embarrassed to answer.  :) :)

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:54pm:

Indeed. Islam is demonstrably compatible with women's rights. And not hard to find. A simple google will set you right. Give it a go.

Well this is what I found, after doing what you suggested.

---

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

Actually you should google again because the article you posted to support Islam being compatible with women's rights says nothing of the sort. It says that advocacy for women's rights is hard to find, espoused only by a minority and deadly for its advocates. Religion of peace kills them. It takes a special sort of dope to conclude from that that Islam is compatible with women's rights.

Nope Secret. There are plenty of Muslim feminists. Plenty of Muslims who advocate for women's rights.

Plenty of Muslims who seamlessly entwine their religion with their ideology.

Does that mean some aren't threatened? Or even murdered? Nope. I never claimed it didn't. Had you thought beyond the cursory, you would have formed the conclusion that there would be no need for advocacy were it not for the fact that in many countries, women desperately require it.

None of that means that Islam is incompatible with women'w rights though. The converse is demonstrably true.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:21pm:

And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights? You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?

It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross.

Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... ;D ;D ;D ;D

issuevoter wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 2:40pm:

However, I would like to point out that it was Christian missionaries who were responsible for the end of cannibalism in Melanesia and Polynesia, not Western liberalism or law. And if anyone wants to push the line that cannibalism in those islands was only a matter of ritual, they need to read the personal accounts of educated men who witnessed the native's relish for human flesh. Understandably, the subject is a kind of No-No these days, because we do not want to make their descendants feel bad. But if you can think of a way to embarrass Europeans, feel free, its open season in multicultural circles.

Cannibalism was abandoned by the Pacific Islanders only when meat pies and snags were introduced by immigrant Aussie shopkeepers living on the islands.

I mean, fair dinkum ... part of the Catholic ritual is to give the parishioners a thin wafer and some wine while darkly intoning the words ... " ... the body of Christ ... the blood of Christ .... "

(As the disciples sat together, Jesus said, " Take it and eat it, for this is my body' " (Matthew 26:26). He then gave thanks and offered them the cup and said, " ‘Each of you drink from it, for this is my blood, .... ")

Dear O dear O dear ....

Abos tend to take things literally, and so the arrival of Priests on the islands didn't exactly contribute to a vegetarian diet with no more long pig included.

 

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm: And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights? You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright? It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross. Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... ;D ;D ;D ;D

You didn't understand the question, did you.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:19pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm: And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights? You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright? It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross. Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... ;D ;D ;D ;D You didn't understand the question, did you.

I understand that you can only mimic your little mentor haemorrhoid......you haven't an original thought in your vacant mind.........

Look at Mothballs sticking up for Islams poor treatment of women. WTF!!!

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:21pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:19pm: Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm: And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights? You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright? It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross. Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... ;D ;D ;D ;D You didn't understand the question, did you. I understand that you can only mimic your little mentor haemorrhoid......you haven't an original thought in your vacant mind.........

I'll take that as a 'no' then.

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:21pm:

Look at Mothballs sticking up for Islams poor treatment of women. WTF!!!

Nope. I' trying to explain that Islam is compatible with women's rights.

What have you failed to understand?

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:22pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:19pm: Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm: And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights? You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright? It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross. Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... ;D ;D ;D ;D You didn't understand the question, did you. I understand that you can only mimic your little mentor haemorrhoid......you haven't an original thought in your vacant mind......... I'll take that as a 'no' then.

You can take this as my middle finger..... 'I'....... ;D ;D ;D

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 3:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm: Look at Mothballs sticking up for Islams poor treatment of women. WTF!!! Indeed i am. What have you failed to understand?

Does it feel uncomfortable to have haemorrhoid's hand up your stench-trench, or are you used to it now?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:53pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm: You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If muslims want it - why not? These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it. While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved. What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century. As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam.

Bollocks.

The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims because they know that if Christianity has diminished because of modernisation, Islam will disappear in a puff if anything even remotely similar is attempted with the Koran. At least Christianity has love at its core and you can't gainsay that. The texts of Islam have seething rancour and subjugation as their core, covered up by empty and silly incantations of a merciful go who is, in the next breath, declared unfathomable, unknowable, supra-rational, inaccessible.

The whole 'Allah's eternal, unalterable word' hooey has to be thrown overboard. And if that happens and the Koran is subject to intelligent review, it will all be chucked as well as it doesn't stand up to even cursory criticism.

That's why the bearded hordes in pajamas riot and kill at the slightest suggestion of review.  This is where Mohamemd painted you numpties into a corner you cannot escape except by apostasy. The old pryapic monsters has rogered all you Muslims, good and proper,  across the centuries.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Meanwhile, in Burundi, a group of 26 imams — in an organization called Alliance of Imams of the North Corridor for Humanitarian Development (AICNDH) — is striving to defend the rights of women and girls in a country now consumed with civil strife. In various mosques across the northern part of the country, these imams recently delivered 12 khutbahs, or speeches, on women’s rights in Islam. AICNDH, in partnership with Muslims for Progressive Values, will be hosting a series of conferences at universities and schools in Burundi over the coming months, also on Muslim women’s rights. Together, these imams are the brave #ImamsForShe: religious and lay leaders, Islamic scholars, men and women. They debunk the misogynistic interpretation of Islam. They fight against the violation of the rights of women and girls in the Muslim world and beyond. These are the imams we need to empower and mobilize. For many years in our Muslim communities, we have heard from too many hate-mongering imams, whose Wahhabi theology is radical, racist and supremacist. Their interpretation of Islam is based on what “Sharia law” dictates. But Sharia law is a man-made construct. Sharia law is a mash-up of medieval, misogynistic political leaders’ extrapolation of the Quran, pre-Islamic norms, cultural norms of the day and hadiths (secondary texts of what Prophet Muhammad supposedly said and did, compiled by men more than 100 years after his death). Instead of challenging these false “truths,” the American mainstream media popularizes them, like when the Islamist imam Anjem Choudary was featured on CBS in a “60 Minutes” episode; he is also a favorite of Fox News. The ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s propagation of Islamist theology makes her complicit as well, and she is popular on media outlets from the right to left, including NPR. Less visible in the public discourse is another set of imams who have an inclusive worldview. Far too often, they are shut out by Muslim communities, slandered for challenging the misogynistic interpretations of the faith and, in some instances, killed by radicals. Muslims for Progressive Values is a grassroots, faith-based human rights organization. For years we have been in search of these inclusive imams. We have been elated to partner with them, but we’ve also discovered that they recoil in fear at the thought of going public with their views. Borrowing from the United Nations Women’s #HeForShe campaign, promoted by actress Emma Watson, we designed a new campaign called #ImamsForShe. We need to counter the domination of Islamist imams in our societies with #ImamsForShe and to actually improve the lives of all human beings, particularly women. In March of last year in New York, at the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women session, we launched the campaign to a packed room of diplomats and non-governmental organizations hungry for #ImamsForShe to positively affect real lives on the ground. We reached 125,000 people on social media, were featured on Voices of New York, written up in a Danish newspaper, praised and promoted by the minister for education, culture and science in The Netherlands and, most importantly, endorsed and championed by imams and human rights defenders of Muslim heritage. On March 23, we will take this initiative to the next level with a workshop that will pair up imams from various Muslim backgrounds with secular women’s rights defenders at the U.N.’s 60th session of the Commission on the Status of Women in New York. The #ImamsForShe campaign is meant to empower women to educate themselves about their rights in Islam so that no mullah or husband can deprive them or their daughters of their right to decide whom they choose to marry. These imams put forward an uplifting, inclusive and compassionate expression of Islam. They challenge female genital mutilation, child marriages, male “guardianship” and the death sentence of daughters who supposedly dishonor the family name. Imams in the Muslim world are, for the most part, highly regarded. It is a hierarchical system that is not going to disappear. But with that status of authority comes great responsibility. That is why working within that system is necessary if we are to positively affect people’s lives. We need #ImamsForShe to counter radicalism with the same conviction as the hate-mongering imams. A Pew Forum report last year on world religions states that by the year 2050, the world Muslim population will bump up against the Christian world population. What sort of adherents to Islam should we hope for? The Islamist ones who have destroyed historical sites, churches, mosques and have enslaved girls and pushed gays off tall buildings? Or Muslims with an inclusive worldview? The choice is clear. High Commissioner Zeid Ra’ad Al-Hussein put it perfectly: “We must persevere together until we bend the course of humanity’s future to a destination more hopeful and enlightened, in which human decency is the only currency of human interaction.”

;D ;D ;D

Frank wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm: Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm: You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If muslims want it - why not? These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it. While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved. What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century. As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam. Bollocks. The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims because they know that if Christianity has diminished because of modernisation, Islam will disappear in a puff if anything even remotely similar is attempted with the Koran. At least Christianity has love at its core and you can't gainsay that. The texts of Islam have seething rancour and subjugation as their core, covered up by empty and silly incantations of a merciful go who is, in the next breath, declared unfathomable, unknowable, supra-rational, inaccessible. The whole 'Allah's eternal, unalterable word' hooey has to be thrown overboard. And if that happens and the Koran is subject to intelligent review, it will all be chucked as well as it doesn't stand up to even cursory criticism. That's why the bearded hordes in pajamas riot and kill at the slightest suggestion of review.  This is where Mohamemd painted you numpties into a corner you cannot escape except by apostasy. The old pryapic monsters has rogered all you Muslims, good and proper,  across the centuries.

Then how, pray tell, do the Imams and Muslims described in the article reconcile women's right's with their faith?

How are there Muslim women who identify as feminists?

You lot talk of women's rights only to use them as a vehicle to demonise Islam as a whole.

Yet you won't even accept the existence of women who are Muslim who happen to be feminists and advocate for women's rights.

You should be applauding these women. Desiring to know more about them and encouraging them in their struggle ... lest you be considered a bunch of hypocrites.

A collection of evidences [with the latest at the top] attesting to the contrary;

https://www.jihadwatch.org/category/womens-rights-in-islam



.



a few examples......

Sweden: Muslim school segregates boys and girls, makes girls enter bus at the back

Malaysia: Muslim MP and former Sharia court judge says 9-year-olds can marry and rapists can marry victims

Italy: Muslim mom shaves head of daughter for not wearing hijab

India: Muslim leader says “women are impure during menstruation and should not enter a place of worship during this period”

Iran: Alarming rise in acid attacks against women who are not properly veiled

Pakistani girls given extra credit at school for wearing hijab, classes must begin with Hadith

UK: Muslims barrage Muslima in hijab with death threats for twerking

US-based Muslims divorce their wives in India using WhatsApp
[n.b. very onerous conditions are placed upon moslem women who want to divorce their husbands]

UK: Sharia courts operating beyond reach of British law and oppressing women

Frank wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims

Its a fair point. And I thank you for pointing out that the Bible and Quran are not equivalent.

Its true that muslims consider the Quran inerrant and unalterable - but it doesn't mean it can't be rationalised and adapted to suit the times. This is possible because most of the language is very general to the point of being ambiguous. Intentionally so, IMO. And this is why I always point out the strong Islamic tradition of rationalism and using your intellect - firstly in interpreting the Quran, but also as a general guiding principle in life. And thats what drove the intellectual golden age. It is even commanded by the Quran itself. Not that you see that in today's muslim community of course - since the triumph of the so called 'traditionalists' (as in the traditions of Muhammad - and treating it as at least as sacred as the Quran). For with the traditionalist dogma, free thought and rationality is not needed - since every instruction they ever need can be spoonfed to them from some hadith or other.

As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

QUOTES
“If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.”
—Malala Yousafzai

Synopsis

Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

miketrees wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 7:22pm:

As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. QUOTES “If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.” —Malala Yousafzai Synopsis Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

Thank you Mike. A wonderful example of a Muslim feminist.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation.

Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam?

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 9:33pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam?

Can't you google? Try typing "Tunisia progressive" into the search engine and seeing what you come up with.

Here, to get you started:

"The new constitution sets out to make the North African country of 11 million people a democracy, with a civil state whose laws are not based on Islamic law, unlike many other Arab constitutions. An entire chapter of the document, some 28 articles, is dedicated to protecting citizens' rights, including protection from torture, the right to due process, and freedom of worship. It guarantees equality between men and women before the law and the state commits itself to protecting women's rights."

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/27/tunisia-passes-progressiveconstitution.html

And i think you seriously need to update your understanding of slavery and how it exists in this day and age.

Is this constitution hundreds of years old?

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 9:48pm:

Is this constitution hundreds of years old?

So, you can't google?

Or click on a link even, by the looks of things.

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 9:33pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam?

Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'?

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 9:55pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'?

Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades.

How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD?

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 9:07pm:

miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 7:22pm: As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. QUOTES “If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.” —Malala Yousafzai Synopsis Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Thank you Mike. A wonderful example of a Muslim feminist.

More like an excellent example of islamist retribution.


You wouldn't see an atheist doing this sh1t,



You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:08pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:07pm: miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 7:22pm: As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. QUOTES “If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.” —Malala Yousafzai Synopsis Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Thank you Mike. A wonderful example of a Muslim feminist. More like an excellent example of islamist retribution. You wouldn't see an atheist doing this sh1t, You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more

Why would you try to diminish the great work and wonderful representation Malala is now doing by reducing her to victim status?

That's the absolute opposite of feminism.

She is a proud and spectacular example of Muslim feminism. All of your ignorance and bigotry cannot take that away from her.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD?

I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra.

Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"?

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:15pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"?

So this is you confirming that you can't google then.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:11pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:08pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:07pm: miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 7:22pm: As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. QUOTES “If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.” —Malala Yousafzai Synopsis Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Thank you Mike. A wonderful example of a Muslim feminist. More like an excellent example of islamist retribution. You wouldn't see an atheist doing this sh1t, You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more Why would you try to diminish the great work and wonderful representation Malala is now doing by reducing her to victim status? That's the absolute opposite of feminism. She is a proud and spectacular example of Muslim feminism. All of your ignorance and bigotry cannot take that away fro her.

Is english not your first fkken language?

I know you refuse to confirm whether you are mentally retarded or not, but your replies tend to indicate a serious level of retardation.


For those who are not a total fkken retard they would have read and understood the comment was directed at the muslim scumbags NOT at Malala

But because you are a retarded crnt. you deliberately misrepresented what I said.

Well done fkkhead, no wonder you are treated like a syphilitic leper by the members of this board.  :) :)

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:17pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then.

I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"?

Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model?

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:19pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:11pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:08pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:07pm: miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 7:22pm: As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. QUOTES “If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.” —Malala Yousafzai Synopsis Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Thank you Mike. A wonderful example of a Muslim feminist. More like an excellent example of islamist retribution. You wouldn't see an atheist doing this sh1t, You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more Why would you try to diminish the great work and wonderful representation Malala is now doing by reducing her to victim status? That's the absolute opposite of feminism. She is a proud and spectacular example of Muslim feminism. All of your ignorance and bigotry cannot take that away fro her. Is english not your first fkken language? I know you refuse to confirm whether you are mentally retarded or not, but your replies tend to indicate a serious level of retardation. For those who are not a total fkken retard they would have read and understood the comment was directed at the muslim scumbags NOT at Malala But because you are a retarded crnt. you deliberately misrepresented what I said. Well done fkkhead, no wonder you are treated like a syphilitic leper by the members of this board.  :) :)

Once again, BigOl resorts to abuse when he has been bested. You really need to find a new tack. This one just humiliates you, even more than your chronic lack of analytical skills do.

You said .. and i quote:

"You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more", thus reducing her to victim status.

I countered by saying Malala is indeed much more than what happened to her when she "stepped out of line". She has contnued on to excellence.

This really shouldn't need to be explained o you but fortunately for you, ii am the mother of a young child and understand how to transmit information in a way that is easy to understand ... although you really should have remembered what you just typed, Could have saved all this bandwidth.

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:21pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model?

I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic.

I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia?

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:26pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:19pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:11pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:08pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:07pm: miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 7:22pm: As a young girl, Malala Yousafzai defied the Taliban in Pakistan and demanded that girls be allowed to receive an education. She was shot in the head by a Taliban gunman in 2012, but survived and went on to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. QUOTES “If I win Nobel Peace Prize, it would be a great opportunity for me, but if I don't get it, it's not important because my goal is not to get Nobel Peace Prize, my goal is to get peace and my goal is to see the education of every child.” —Malala Yousafzai Synopsis Malala Yousafzai was born on July 12, 1997, in Mingora, Pakistan. As a child, she became an advocate for girls' education, which resulted in the Taliban issuing a death threat against her. On October 9, 2012, a gunman shot Malala when she was traveling home from school. She survived, and has continued to speak out on the importance of education. She was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2013. In  2014,  she was nominated again and won, becoming the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Thank you Mike. A wonderful example of a Muslim feminist. More like an excellent example of islamist retribution. You wouldn't see an atheist doing this sh1t, You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more Why would you try to diminish the great work and wonderful representation Malala is now doing by reducing her to victim status? That's the absolute opposite of feminism. She is a proud and spectacular example of Muslim feminism. All of your ignorance and bigotry cannot take that away fro her. Is english not your first fkken language? I know you refuse to confirm whether you are mentally retarded or not, but your replies tend to indicate a serious level of retardation. For those who are not a total fkken retard they would have read and understood the comment was directed at the muslim scumbags NOT at Malala But because you are a retarded crnt. you deliberately misrepresented what I said. Well done fkkhead, no wonder you are treated like a syphilitic leper by the members of this board.  :) :) Once again, BigOl resorts to abuse when he has been bested. You really need to find a new tack. This one just humiliates you, even more than your chronic lack of analytical skills do. You said .. and i quote: "You have only shown what happens when women 'step out of line' nothing more", thus reducing her to victim status. I countered by saying Malala is indeed much more than what happened to her when she "stepped out of line". She has contnued on to excellence. This really shouldn't need to be explained o you but fortunately for you, ii am the mother of a young child and understand how to transmit information in a way that is easy to understand ... although you really should have remembered what you just typed, Could have saved all this bandwidth.

You are the apologist for muslim extremists, why the fkk are you try to back tracking now?


As a filthy scumbag liar your should be used to being held to account of misrepresenting other peoples statements.



Check the fkken highlight for the point of my statements, you fkking liar.



No wonder your support greg  you piece of poo sub human.  :) :) :)

The only one "backtracking" BigOl, is you.

And you backtracked yourself right into a corner.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:38pm:

The only one "backtracking" BigOl, is you. And you backtracked yourself right into a corner.

Yeah, good one fkkhead

Fkken apologist

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:29pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia?

We do. Big Hole is a perfect example of that tawdry character, the disobedient slave.

She needs to be punished, Mother. A good insertion should do it. Don't let her off your hook, dear.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 11:05pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:38pm: The only one "backtracking" BigOl, is you. And you backtracked yourself right into a corner. Yeah, good one fkkhead Fkken apologist

Such language.

Big Hole 64. The wound that never heals.

The TRUTH about Islamic Woman's Rights, from someone that actually knows....It's only 5 Minutes...

https://i.imgsafe.org/d70f030cd9.pngBrigitte Gabriel on True Women's Rights Click the Image to Play the Video in a New Tab

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTkG6PKnNFw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTkG6PKnNFw

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 10:29pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia?

Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day.

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 5:01pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:53pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm: Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm: You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If muslims want it - why not? These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it. While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved. What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century. As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam. Bollocks. The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims because they know that if Christianity has diminished because of modernisation, Islam will disappear in a puff if anything even remotely similar is attempted with the Koran. At least Christianity has love at its core and you can't gainsay that. The texts of Islam have seething rancour and subjugation as their core, covered up by empty and silly incantations of a merciful go who is, in the next breath, declared unfathomable, unknowable, supra-rational, inaccessible. The whole 'Allah's eternal, unalterable word' hooey has to be thrown overboard. And if that happens and the Koran is subject to intelligent review, it will all be chucked as well as it doesn't stand up to even cursory criticism. That's why the bearded hordes in pajamas riot and kill at the slightest suggestion of review.  This is where Mohamemd painted you numpties into a corner you cannot escape except by apostasy. The old pryapic monsters has rogered all you Muslims, good and proper,  across the centuries. Then how, pray tell, do the Imams and Muslims described in the article reconcile women's right's with their faith? How are there Muslim women who identify as feminists?

They are lying and/or are deluded, just like you.

You cannot simultaneously accept Islam (women are worth half of men) and be a feminist (women have equal dignity).

Abu invented entirely new concepts of respect and women's rights in order to convince people how nice Islam really is. Gandalf on the other hand thinks sex slavery is a form of protective custody and a path to liberation.

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2017 at 6:33pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:29pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia? Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day.

Still deflecting on irrelevancies is i see.

But you avoided the question. Do we still have slavery in Australia?

And at what point do you consider Australia became "progressive"?

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2017 at 9:33pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 5:01pm: Frank wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:53pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm: Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm: You are a bloody joke! "Islam........Women's Rights" Have you been on the plonk with Cods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If muslims want it - why not? These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it. While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved. What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century. As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam. Bollocks. The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims because they know that if Christianity has diminished because of modernisation, Islam will disappear in a puff if anything even remotely similar is attempted with the Koran. At least Christianity has love at its core and you can't gainsay that. The texts of Islam have seething rancour and subjugation as their core, covered up by empty and silly incantations of a merciful go who is, in the next breath, declared unfathomable, unknowable, supra-rational, inaccessible. The whole 'Allah's eternal, unalterable word' hooey has to be thrown overboard. And if that happens and the Koran is subject to intelligent review, it will all be chucked as well as it doesn't stand up to even cursory criticism. That's why the bearded hordes in pajamas riot and kill at the slightest suggestion of review.  This is where Mohamemd painted you numpties into a corner you cannot escape except by apostasy. The old pryapic monsters has rogered all you Muslims, good and proper,  across the centuries. Then how, pray tell, do the Imams and Muslims described in the article reconcile women's right's with their faith? How are there Muslim women who identify as feminists? They are lying and/or are deluded, just like you. You cannot simultaneously accept Islam (women are worth half of men) and be a feminist (women have equal dignity).

I know it's hard for you to understand Frank but the reality of the situation is that people re capable of interpreting things differently to you.

Staggering, no?

Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:06pm:

Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw

Yes. Barbaric.

Your point?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 6:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:29pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia? Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day. Still deflecting on irrelevancies is i see. But you avoided the question. Do we still have slavery in Australia? And at what point do you consider Australia became "progressive"?

No we do not have slavery. Do you think lying about the enslavement of women in Tunisia's recent past helps the cause of women's rights?

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 11:59am: freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 6:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:29pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia? Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day. Still deflecting on irrelevancies is i see. But you avoided the question. Do we still have slavery in Australia? And at what point do you consider Australia became "progressive"? No we do not have slavery. Do you think lying about the enslavement of women in Tunisia's recent past helps the cause of women's rights?

Oh but we most certainly do, FD. Sex slavery; slavery within marriages; immigrant workers etc.

Do you think lying about it's existence helps the cause of these poor people?

When do you consider Australia became progressive?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:08pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm: Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw Yes. Barbaric. Your point?

Obvious. Thats womens rights in Islam, the right to get beaten. And there we have women arguing for the right to get beaten, if you support "womens rights" within Islam thats what you support no matter what your intent is.

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:46pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:08pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm: Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw Yes. Barbaric. Your point? Obvious. Thats womens rights in Islam, the right to get beaten. And there we have women arguing for the right to get beaten, if you support "womens rights" within Islam thats what you support no matter what your intent is.

What a preposterous argument.

You are giving n example of bad behaviour. I have at no point denied that there i bad behviour within Islam. Had you read your article, you will see that the Muslims discussed were labelled "radical".

Do you not think that word an important distinction?

I am arguing that Islam and women's rights are compatible. This is demonstrably the case for we have scholars, Imams, Muslim and men and Muslim women saying that they are advocates for women's rights. Furthermore, many of them re women's rights activists.

Why would you deny the existence of these people? Because it challenges your prejudice?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:46pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:08pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm: Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw Yes. Barbaric. Your point? Obvious. Thats womens rights in Islam, the right to get beaten. And there we have women arguing for the right to get beaten, if you support "womens rights" within Islam thats what you support no matter what your intent is. What a preposterous argument. You are giving n example of bad behaviour. I have at no point denied that there i bad behviour within Islam. Had you read your article, you will see that the Muslims discussed were labelled "radical". Do you not think that word an important distinction? I am arguing that Islam and women's rights are compatible. This is demonstrably the case for we have scholars, Imams, Muslim and men and Muslim women saying that they are advocates for women's rights. Furthermore, many of them re women's rights activists. Why would you deny the existence of these people? Because it challenges your prejudice?

Sure, except when they are at the mosque. Or with other Muslims, then its time to fall into line with the beating your wife rules. Otherwise, death threats, beatings etc, all allowed and condoned within Islam. This type of alleged reform within Islam is a sham, for show. And you fall for it. "Useful fool", I think they call people like yourself.
Get back to us when Mosques stop forcibly separating females from males, then you can talk about "reform".   

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

You are giving n example of bad behaviour.

No, I didnt. I gave an example of what is being taught at every single Mosque and Muslim gathering within this country. [/quote]

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:46pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:08pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm: Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw Yes. Barbaric. Your point? Obvious. Thats womens rights in Islam, the right to get beaten. And there we have women arguing for the right to get beaten, if you support "womens rights" within Islam thats what you support no matter what your intent is. What a preposterous argument. You are giving n example of bad behaviour. I have at no point denied that there i bad behviour within Islam. Had you read your article, you will see that the Muslims discussed were labelled "radical". Do you not think that word an important distinction? I am arguing that Islam and women's rights are compatible. This is demonstrably the case for we have scholars, Imams, Muslim and men and Muslim women saying that they are advocates for women's rights. Furthermore, many of them re women's rights activists. Why would you deny the existence of these people? Because it challenges your prejudice? Sure, except when they are at the mosque. Or with other Muslims, then its time to fall into line with the beating your wife rules. Otherwise, death threats, beatings etc, all allowed and condoned within Islam. This type of alleged reform within Islam is a sham, for show. And you fall for it. "Useful fool", I think they call people like yourself. Get back to us when Mosques stop forcibly separating females from males, then you can talk about "reform".

Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino?

Why are you so reluctant to admit that there are modern progressive Muslims, Rhino? After all, isn't that what you want?

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:06pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm: You are giving n example of bad behaviour. No, I didnt. I gave an example of what is being taught at every single Mosque and Muslim gathering within this country.

[/quote]

What absolute nonsense.

Why do you always just make stuff up?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:10pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:04pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:46pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:08pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm: Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw Yes. Barbaric. Your point? Obvious. Thats womens rights in Islam, the right to get beaten. And there we have women arguing for the right to get beaten, if you support "womens rights" within Islam thats what you support no matter what your intent is. What a preposterous argument. You are giving n example of bad behaviour. I have at no point denied that there i bad behviour within Islam. Had you read your article, you will see that the Muslims discussed were labelled "radical". Do you not think that word an important distinction? I am arguing that Islam and women's rights are compatible. This is demonstrably the case for we have scholars, Imams, Muslim and men and Muslim women saying that they are advocates for women's rights. Furthermore, many of them re women's rights activists. Why would you deny the existence of these people? Because it challenges your prejudice? Sure, except when they are at the mosque. Or with other Muslims, then its time to fall into line with the beating your wife rules. Otherwise, death threats, beatings etc, all allowed and condoned within Islam. This type of alleged reform within Islam is a sham, for show. And you fall for it. "Useful fool", I think they call people like yourself. Get back to us when Mosques stop forcibly separating females from males, then you can talk about "reform".    Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino? Why are you so reluctant to admit that there are modern progressive Muslims, Rhino? After all, isn't that what you want?

Not accepted by mainstream Islam, thats the point. and, very important point, what women Imams there are are only allowed to lead females in prayer, so no progression there. Keep trying though, I like watching you flounder.

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:19pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:10pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:04pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:46pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:08pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:06pm: Sick moment Muslim teacher demonstrates how a man should BEAT women with a stick - as Islamic group says a husband's violence towards his wife is a 'beautiful blessing' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e9NGYSiw Yes. Barbaric. Your point? Obvious. Thats womens rights in Islam, the right to get beaten. And there we have women arguing for the right to get beaten, if you support "womens rights" within Islam thats what you support no matter what your intent is. What a preposterous argument. You are giving n example of bad behaviour. I have at no point denied that there i bad behviour within Islam. Had you read your article, you will see that the Muslims discussed were labelled "radical". Do you not think that word an important distinction? I am arguing that Islam and women's rights are compatible. This is demonstrably the case for we have scholars, Imams, Muslim and men and Muslim women saying that they are advocates for women's rights. Furthermore, many of them re women's rights activists. Why would you deny the existence of these people? Because it challenges your prejudice? Sure, except when they are at the mosque. Or with other Muslims, then its time to fall into line with the beating your wife rules. Otherwise, death threats, beatings etc, all allowed and condoned within Islam. This type of alleged reform within Islam is a sham, for show. And you fall for it. "Useful fool", I think they call people like yourself. Get back to us when Mosques stop forcibly separating females from males, then you can talk about "reform".    Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino? Why are you so reluctant to admit that there are modern progressive Muslims, Rhino? After all, isn't that what you want? Not Accepted by mainstream Islam, thats the point.

No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam.

I'm beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible".

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

[ No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam.[/quote[ ad yet i have just demonstrated they are not. [quote]'m beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible".

perhaps you need to learn the meaning of the word yourself. Islam does not accept womens rights except as a subservience to males. Thats the basis of the religion.

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:21pm: [ No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam.[/quote[ ad yet i have just demonstrated they are not. [quote]'m beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible". perhaps you need to learn the meaning of the word yourself. Islam does not accept womens rights except as a subservience to males. Thats the basis of the religion.

Yet i have have clearly demonstrated the presence of Muslim women's rights advocates. From Imams and scholars all the way down to grass roots activists and ordinary, everyday Muslims.

Compatible, innit?

Did you know that there have been women run Mosques in China for hundreds of years?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:33pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:24pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:21pm: [ No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam.[/quote[ ad yet i have just demonstrated they are not. [quote]'m beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible". perhaps you need to learn the meaning of the word yourself. Islam does not accept womens rights except as a subservience to males. Thats the basis of the religion. Yet i have have clearly demonstrated the presence of Muslim women's rights advocates. From Imams and scholars all the way down to grass roots activists and ordinary, everyday Muslims. Compatible, innit? Did you know that there have been women run Mosques in China for hundreds of years?

You just destroyed your own argument. Exactly what has been achieved by having women Imams in China who are only allowed to lead other women in prayer? Continued segregation. Like I said, get back to us when Mosques stop the forced segregation, until then any argument you make is lacking substance.

rhino wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:52pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:33pm: rhino wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:24pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:21pm: [ No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam.[/quote[ ad yet i have just demonstrated they are not. [quote]'m beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible". perhaps you need to learn the meaning of the word yourself. Islam does not accept womens rights except as a subservience to males. Thats the basis of the religion. Yet i have have clearly demonstrated the presence of Muslim women's rights advocates. From Imams and scholars all the way down to grass roots activists and ordinary, everyday Muslims. Compatible, innit? Did you know that there have been women run Mosques in China for hundreds of years? You just destroyed your own argument. Exactly what has been achieved by having women Imams in China who are only allowed to lead other women in prayer? Continued segregation. Like I said, get back to us when Mosques stop the forced segregation, until then any argument you make is lacking substance.

I most certainly did not destroy my argument. That's some creative thinking  there. And who said they are only "allowed" to lead other women in prayer? In the article i read, men were invited to join in prayer. More conjecture from the closed-minded.

There are female Imams all over the place. There are even gay Imams.

It's time you updated your understanding of Islam, Rhino, and not only recognise the existence of progressive ideology within Islam when you find it but to embrace and encourage it.

I repeat isn't that, after all, what you want?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:59pm:

There are female Imams all over the place. There are even gay Imams.

errr I wouldn't say "all over the place" - thats taking it a bit far I think.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 2:02pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:59pm: There are female Imams all over the place. There are even gay Imams. errr I wouldn't say "all over the place" - thats taking it a bit far I think.

By ll over the place i mean there are more than a few in several parts of the world.

And their numbers are growing.

Based on the rants of mothra and gandy, the more islamic the country the greater the women 's rights. Surely they cannot base their entire argument on a few exception here and there but on what islam actually shows to the world about how they actually treat women.

Good to know.

---

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 2:24pm:

Based on the rants of mothra and gandy, the more islamic the country the greater the women 's rights. Surely they cannot base their entire argument on a few exception here and there but on what islam actually shows to the world about how they actually treat women. Good to know.

And again, BigOl has utterly missed the point and gone and got it all wrong.

What a surprise.

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:24pm: Based on the rants of mothra and gandy, the more islamic the country the greater the women 's rights. Surely they cannot base their entire argument on a few exception here and there but on what islam actually shows to the world about how they actually treat women. Good to know. And again, BigOl has utterly missed the point and gone and got it all wrong. What a surprise.

So are you arguing that islam is compatible with women's right based on its application in strict islamic countries like saudi arbia or are you arguing that the few exceptions to the rule in far flung, essentially non-islamic countries like china are the norm?

Arguing the exception is the norm, just makes you a liar, I know greggy has gone, but we don't need that spot filled.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 2:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:25pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:24pm: Based on the rants of mothra and gandy, the more islamic the country the greater the women 's rights. Surely they cannot base their entire argument on a few exception here and there but on what islam actually shows to the world about how they actually treat women. Good to know. And again, BigOl has utterly missed the point and gone and got it all wrong. What a surprise. So are you arguing that islam is compatible with women's right based on its application in strict islamic countries like saudi arbia or are you arguing that the few exceptions to the rule in far flung, essentially non-islamic countries like china are the norm? Arguing the exception is the norm, just makes you a liar, I know greggy has gone, but we don't need that spot filled.

I'm not arguing either. Where did you pull that bollocks from?

And i most certainly have not claimed that women's right's are the "norm".

When you do not understand what a person is saying, you shouldn't just make things up.

I am saying, for the dozenth time, that Islam is demonstrably compatible with women's rights.

You do know what compatible means, don't you?

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:31pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:25pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:24pm: Based on the rants of mothra and gandy, the more islamic the country the greater the women 's rights. Surely they cannot base their entire argument on a few exception here and there but on what islam actually shows to the world about how they actually treat women. Good to know. And again, BigOl has utterly missed the point and gone and got it all wrong. What a surprise. So are you arguing that islam is compatible with women's right based on its application in strict islamic countries like saudi arbia or are you arguing that the few exceptions to the rule in far flung, essentially non-islamic countries like china are the norm? Arguing the exception is the norm, just makes you a liar, I know greggy has gone, but we don't need that spot filled. I'm not arguing either. Where did you pull that bollocks from? And i most certainly have not claimed that women's right's are the "norm". When you do not understand what a person is saying, you shouldn't just make things up. I am saying, for the dozenth time, that Islam is demonstrably compatible with women's rights. You do know what compatible means, don't you?

Through the demonstration of what?


Islam, as you said, is not normally demonstrative of women's rights, so you can point any countries that are predominantly islamic and don't treat women like filth. Otherwise you are trying to argue that the exception is somehow the norm.


I know what you are saying, but doesn't seem to be based on any evidence.


I can easily show you more than one islamic country where women's right are pood on regularly by the muslms in charge, actual a great many more than a few. There is no evidence where this fantasy is anything more than a one off here and there and should be treated as an aberration of the application of islam.

During the debate, Ms Allouche says wives who disobey Muslim teachings could face a beating from their husband, but only because 'he loves his wife, he fears for his wife'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406670/Muslim-women-demonstrate-husbands-beat-them.html#ixzz4e6Ujs1zZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


that looks like the good old This hurts me more than you excuse.. ::) ::)

funny how they always talk about husbands beating wives never wives beating husband... ::) ::)

at least we know in our society there is no discrimination when it comes to the LAW.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 3:19pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:38pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:31pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:25pm: BigOl64 wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 2:24pm: Based on the rants of mothra and gandy, the more islamic the country the greater the women 's rights. Surely they cannot base their entire argument on a few exception here and there but on what islam actually shows to the world about how they actually treat women. Good to know. And again, BigOl has utterly missed the point and gone and got it all wrong. What a surprise. So are you arguing that islam is compatible with women's right based on its application in strict islamic countries like saudi arbia or are you arguing that the few exceptions to the rule in far flung, essentially non-islamic countries like china are the norm? Arguing the exception is the norm, just makes you a liar, I know greggy has gone, but we don't need that spot filled. I'm not arguing either. Where did you pull that bollocks from? And i most certainly have not claimed that women's right's are the "norm". When you do not understand what a person is saying, you shouldn't just make things up. I am saying, for the dozenth time, that Islam is demonstrably compatible with women's rights. You do know what compatible means, don't you? Through the demonstration of what? Islam, as you said, is not normally demonstrative of women's rights, so you can point any countries that are predominantly islamic and don't treat women like filth. Otherwise you are trying to argue that the exception is somehow the norm. I know what you are saying, but doesn't seem to be based on any evidence. I can easily show you more than one islamic country where women's right are pood on regularly by the muslms in charge, actual a great many more than a few. There is no evidence where this fantasy is anything more than a one off here and there and should be treated as an aberration of the application of islam.

Through the demonstration of the Imams, scholars, grass-roots activists and Muslim men and women who seamlessly reconcile women's rights with their Islamic faith.

This is not just a "one-off here or there" ... there is a real push for it and the very  real presence of gender equality among many Muslims.

This is my point. Islam is compatible with women's rights.

I have at no point denied that women are subjugated and oppressed in much of the Muslim world. Yet even in those places, there are agents for change. Denying their existence doesn't help them.

Google women's rights advocacy in Morocco and see what women's right advocates and activists were able to get through. They still have a long way to go and gender inequality certainly still exists but the ground is set.

ahhhhhhh Morocco



The 2011 constitution guarantees equality for women, “while respecting the provisions of the constitution, and the laws and permanent characteristics of the Kingdom.”

The 2004 Family Code, which improved women’s rights in divorce and child custody, discriminates against women with regard to inheritance and procedures to obtain divorce. The code raised the age of marriage from 15 to 18, but judges routinely allowed girls to marry below this age. There is no law that specifically criminalizes domestic violence or that establishes protections for domestic violence victims.
Domestic Workers

Despite laws prohibiting the employment of children under the age of 15, thousands of children under that age—predominantly girls—are believed to work as domestic workers. According to the UN, nongovernmental organizations, and government sources, the number of child domestic workers has declined in recent years.

Morocco’s labor law excludes domestic workers from its protections, which include a minimum wage, limits to work hours, and a weekly rest day. In 2006, authorities presented a draft law to regulate domestic work and reinforce existing prohibitions on domestic workers under 15 years old. The draft had been modified but not adopted at time of writing.




they are writing changes to the laws..

but I understand its awfully slow at coming into being...

I guess if a women is divorced she is penniless.

its still very much a mans world..

the ground was set in 2011... and they are demonstrating how to cover up domestic violence with make up.. :(

cods wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 4:08pm:

ahhhhhhh Morocco The 2011 constitution guarantees equality for women, “while respecting the provisions of the constitution, and the laws and permanent characteristics of the Kingdom.” The 2004 Family Code, which improved women’s rights in divorce and child custody, discriminates against women with regard to inheritance and procedures to obtain divorce. The code raised the age of marriage from 15 to 18, but judges routinely allowed girls to marry below this age. There is no law that specifically criminalizes domestic violence or that establishes protections for domestic violence victims. Domestic Workers Despite laws prohibiting the employment of children under the age of 15, thousands of children under that age—predominantly girls—are believed to work as domestic workers. According to the UN, nongovernmental organizations, and government sources, the number of child domestic workers has declined in recent years. Morocco’s labor law excludes domestic workers from its protections, which include a minimum wage, limits to work hours, and a weekly rest day. In 2006, authorities presented a draft law to regulate domestic work and reinforce existing prohibitions on domestic workers under 15 years old. The draft had been modified but not adopted at time of writing. they are writing changes to the laws.. but I understand its awfully slow at coming into being... I guess if a women is divorced she is penniless. its still very much a mans world.. the ground was set in 2011... and they are demonstrating how to cover up domestic violence with make up.. :(

Yes. As i said, gender inequality still exists, sadly.

Yet a women's rights movement pushed through laws that allowed women to divorce and protect them from the law of repudiation.

17% of the countries parliamentarians are now women, up from 1% in 2003.

School enrollments for girls have risen dramatically in recent years, as has women's representation in the work-place.

There is much work left to do, but women's right advocates and activists indeed have a voice there.

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 4:18pm:

cods wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 4:08pm: ahhhhhhh Morocco The 2011 constitution guarantees equality for women, “while respecting the provisions of the constitution, and the laws and permanent characteristics of the Kingdom.” The 2004 Family Code, which improved women’s rights in divorce and child custody, discriminates against women with regard to inheritance and procedures to obtain divorce. The code raised the age of marriage from 15 to 18, but judges routinely allowed girls to marry below this age. There is no law that specifically criminalizes domestic violence or that establishes protections for domestic violence victims. Domestic Workers Despite laws prohibiting the employment of children under the age of 15, thousands of children under that age—predominantly girls—are believed to work as domestic workers. According to the UN, nongovernmental organizations, and government sources, the number of child domestic workers has declined in recent years. Morocco’s labor law excludes domestic workers from its protections, which include a minimum wage, limits to work hours, and a weekly rest day. In 2006, authorities presented a draft law to regulate domestic work and reinforce existing prohibitions on domestic workers under 15 years old. The draft had been modified but not adopted at time of writing. they are writing changes to the laws.. but I understand its awfully slow at coming into being... I guess if a women is divorced she is penniless. its still very much a mans world.. the ground was set in 2011... and they are demonstrating how to cover up domestic violence with make up.. :( Yes. As i said, gender inequality still exists, sadly. Yet a women's rights movement pushed through laws that allowed women to divorce and protect them from the law of repudiation. 17% of the countries parliamentarians are now women, up from 1% in 2003. School enrollments for girls have risen dramatically in recent years, as has women's representation in the work-place. There is much work left to do, but women's right advocates and activists indeed have a voice there.

they do thats for sure.. but it doesnt mean its changing mothra..


thats what I am pointing out...and what does change is very very slow...maybe its time to beat the drum... and kick them up the bum  to move it along..

what good is it for a women to be able to divorce when she gets nothing....these are women that have been under the thumb for centuries...things are changing. and thats all well and good.. but I for one do not think its enough....in this day and age...the female is a chattel a possession men can have more than one wife...can she have more than one husband????..

personally I would like to see more Muslim women in this country liberated  no more covering up  be free...speak to a man other than your husband....far out...

I would like to see them do more for their sisters in other countries...make more noise if you like...there is still much control for the man no matter what they claim..

Womens rights in Islam-
quran.com/4/34

Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy.
youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam

I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::)

Muslim women explain how to beat a wife and how Islam 'manages' violence better.


‘It’s OK for men to hit wives’


How pathetic!!

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 5:50pm:

Womens rights in Islam- quran.com/4/34 Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy. youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::)

I dont think mothra is defending Islam as such.. she is claiming its changing and of course well it might..

it is of course waiting for MEN to change...lol..

I think its high time women stood up and said..
bugger this I have had enough I will talk to whom I want to.. I will drive a bloody car.. I will wear short sleeves and no head scarf... i will i will i will..

when they come to a country like ours look at the opportunity they have to break free from something that is entirely man made...Sharia Law..

it really is bizarre but I cant see much changing in the near future..I admire mothras belief that it is though..

nothing wrong with that...

cods wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 5:59pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:50pm: Womens rights in Islam- quran.com/4/34 Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy. youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::) I dont think mothra is defending Islam as such.. she is claiming its changing and of course well it might.. it is of course waiting for MEN to change...lol.. I think its high time women stood up and said.. bugger this I have had enough I will talk to whom I want to.. I will drive a bloody car.. I will wear short sleeves and no head scarf... i will i will i will.. when they come to a country like ours look at the opportunity they have to break free from something that is entirely man made...Sharia Law.. it really is bizarre but I cant see much changing in the near future..I admire mothras belief that it is though.. nothing wrong with that...

Cods, Mothra is dreamin.

Saudi Arabia is going on a spending spree spreading the most puritanical and toxic form of Islam throughout the Islamic world.

It's getting worse, not better.

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam. I'm beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible".

How is the Koranic OK to beat your wife and for women to be worth half a man in law and in inheritance compatible, in your mind, with women's rights?

Women's rights to be lesser beings in law, in religion, in society  is now 'compatible' with your understanding of equal dignity for women??


To what lengths are you prepared to go to deny that you are eating, in public, a massive turd sandwich, Mothra??


 

cods wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 5:59pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:50pm: Womens rights in Islam- quran.com/4/34 Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy. youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::) I dont think mothra is defending Islam as such.. she is claiming its changing and of course well it might.. it is of course waiting for MEN to change...lol.. I think its high time women stood up and said.. bugger this I have had enough I will talk to whom I want to.. I will drive a bloody car.. I will wear short sleeves and no head scarf... i will i will i will.. when they come to a country like ours look at the opportunity they have to break free from something that is entirely man made...Sharia Law.. it really is bizarre but I cant see much changing in the near future..I admire mothras belief that it is though.. nothing wrong with that...

Only if Islam is barred from any influence from policy, law, ethics in Islamic countries.

But it is not going to happen unless Islam is completely discredited and discarded because the Koran and Mohammed are also completely discredited. Until then it's Allah's' unalterable and final word. And anyone who believes that is stuck.

Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights  =  Taqiyya



https://i.imgsafe.org/f349dbfcab.pngTaqiyya of Islam, LYING for ISLAM,  explained by Brigitte Gabriel Click the Image to Play the Video in a New Tab

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-RmkTAHccg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-RmkTAHccg

cods wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 5:59pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:50pm: Womens rights in Islam- quran.com/4/34 Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy. youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::) I dont think mothra is defending Islam as such.. she is claiming its changing and of course well it might.. it is of course waiting for MEN to change...lol.. I think its high time women stood up and said.. bugger this I have had enough I will talk to whom I want to.. I will drive a bloody car.. I will wear short sleeves and no head scarf... i will i will i will.. when they come to a country like ours look at the opportunity they have to break free from something that is entirely man made...Sharia Law.. it really is bizarre but I cant see much changing in the near future..I admire mothras belief that it is though.. nothing wrong with that...

Mothra is always defending Islam and muslims.

Don't tell muslims sharia law is man made they believe sharia law is gods laws.

The prophet of Islam says women have deficient minds.
Sunnah.com/bukhari/52/22

Oh look!! another blow for Muslims women's rights!!!! Another non-targeting of writers!!!!


With her book The Veiled Threat dealing with the plight of Muslim women in Europe, former radical feminist Zana Ramadani has kicked the Islamist hornets’ nest in Germany. Being born a Muslim herself, Ramadani is fearful of her life after receiving countless death threats from radical Muslims in Germany. German authorities have not granted her police protection yet.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/04/german-muslim-author-faces-death-threats-after-publishing-book-critical-of-islam/



In Germany. Frikken Muslim monsters, taken in by Germany, are threatening her with death because she no longer likes Islam.

And she is talking about Mothra, too:
“I have problem with certain kind of Feminists,” Ramadani says. “Those who talk about women’s solidarity, but don’t practice it in reality. They only regard White Western male as source of all evil and that he needs to be criticise without any inhibitions, but when it comes to criticising those belonging to other cultures…one automatically gets labelled as racist.”


Mothra, get those Hizbi bints to explain why this is a good thing for Muslim women.

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:31pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 11:59am: freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 6:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:29pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia? Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day. Still deflecting on irrelevancies is i see. But you avoided the question. Do we still have slavery in Australia? And at what point do you consider Australia became "progressive"? No we do not have slavery. Do you think lying about the enslavement of women in Tunisia's recent past helps the cause of women's rights? Oh but we most certainly do, FD. Sex slavery; slavery within marriages; immigrant workers etc. Do you think lying about it's existence helps the cause of these poor people? When do you consider Australia became progressive?

Is that the sort of slavery you think they had in Tunisia until recently? Or do you think it might have been the type where you could wander down to the market place on a Wednesday afternoon, purchase yourself a young girl, then bring her back the next week to sell on if she didn't perform well enough?

http://cdn.frank151.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/09015741/12.jpeg

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 1:10pm:

Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino?

Er... there are in the Anglican, Lutheran, Uniting Churches.

Since when is Catholicism the counterpart of Islam?

Frank wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 7:06pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:10pm: Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino? Er... there are in the Anglican, Lutheran, Uniting Churches. Since when is Catholicism the counterpart of Islam?

Since he discovered a vague moral equivalence between the most progressive Islamic institutions and the most regressive Christian ones.

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:59pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:50pm: Womens rights in Islam- quran.com/4/34 Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy. youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::) I dont think mothra is defending Islam as such.. she is claiming its changing and of course well it might.. it is of course waiting for MEN to change...lol.. I think its high time women stood up and said.. bugger this I have had enough I will talk to whom I want to.. I will drive a bloody car.. I will wear short sleeves and no head scarf... i will i will i will.. when they come to a country like ours look at the opportunity they have to break free from something that is entirely man made...Sharia Law.. it really is bizarre but I cant see much changing in the near future..I admire mothras belief that it is though.. nothing wrong with that... Mothra is always defending Islam and muslims. Don't tell muslims sharia law is man made they believe sharia law is gods laws. The prophet of Islam says women have deficient minds. Sunnah.com/bukhari/52/22

well I am only talking in this instance....mothra can see change...or changes....in Morocco they have written new laws  or adjustments to law.. but nothing has actually been enacted.. .. thats the difference between me and her.. I like progress to happen NOW not in maybe 50 years time...

do you believe Mohammed wrote all those rules???all those years ago... ::) ::)

its like God sitting on the mount chiseling out the bible...any right minded person knows it just didnt happen..

Here's one for all those who consider opponents of Islam to be suffering from a kind of phobia, especially you Muzlim sympathizing women. Oh yeah, its just a phobia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39597062

Don't fret. Its from the BBC, so your safe to read it.

issuevoter wrote on Apr 14^th, 2017 at 1:36pm:

Here's one for all those who consider opponents of Islam to be suffering from a kind of phobia, especially you Muzlim sympathizing women. Oh yeah, its just a phobia. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39597062 Don't fret. Its from the BBC, so your safe to read it.

I do hope they charge the parents of these girls as well..

its the only way... Jail all round.

Islam is being reeled in around the west, this stuff cant go on for to much longer or the only answer would be to kill them.

Johnnie wrote on Apr 14^th, 2017 at 4:32pm:

Islam is being reeled in around the west, this stuff cant go on for to much longer or the only answer would be to kill them.

isnt that what the radicals say about us...jeez.

cods wrote on Apr 14^th, 2017 at 5:21pm:

Johnnie wrote on Apr 14th, 2017 at 4:32pm: Islam is being reeled in around the west, this stuff cant go on for to much longer or the only answer would be to kill them. isnt that what the radicals say about us...jeez.

Dog eat dog, kill or be killed, I am going to sharpen up my sabre just in case.

womens' rights today 2017 in the real islamic world:

qur'an 4.34: Men are the maintainers of women because allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely allah is high, great.

The woman leading the conversation, who is identified as Sydney teacher Reem Allouche, says a man is permitted to hit a woman as an act of discipline, and fellow panellist Atika Latifi, agrees.
https://youtu.be/iLFfcvok1DU

Egyptian cleric the rules for wifebeating.
https://youtu.be/Wp3Eam5FX58

islam wife beating is honourable
https://youtu.be/HWCkEZlu3mM

islam men have authority over women may beat them
https://youtu.be/WVd9RC6nT9M

What a weird religion, blow em up.

Johnnie wrote on Apr 14^th, 2017 at 5:41pm:

cods wrote on Apr 14th, 2017 at 5:21pm: Johnnie wrote on Apr 14th, 2017 at 4:32pm: Islam is being reeled in around the west, this stuff cant go on for to much longer or the only answer would be to kill them. isnt that what the radicals say about us...jeez. Dog eat dog, kill or be killed, I am going to sharpen up my sabre just in case.

will you strike first.... just in case?

Frank wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:21pm: No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam. I'm beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible". How is the Koranic OK to beat your wife and for women to be worth half a man in law and in inheritance compatible, in your mind, with women's rights? Women's rights to be lesser beings in law, in religion, in society  is now 'compatible' with your understanding of equal dignity for women?? To what lengths are you prepared to go to deny that you are eating, in public, a massive turd sandwich, Mothra??

I've already answered this question,yet it shouldn't really need answering. You should be able to come up with an explanation all by yourself.

Perhaps people interpret things differently to you, Frank?

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:59pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 5:50pm: Womens rights in Islam- quran.com/4/34 Wife beating in Islam explained by muslims, it's allowed by Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy. youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam I have no idea why women defend this religion.  ::) I dont think mothra is defending Islam as such.. she is claiming its changing and of course well it might.. it is of course waiting for MEN to change...lol.. I think its high time women stood up and said.. bugger this I have had enough I will talk to whom I want to.. I will drive a bloody car.. I will wear short sleeves and no head scarf... i will i will i will.. when they come to a country like ours look at the opportunity they have to break free from something that is entirely man made...Sharia Law.. it really is bizarre but I cant see much changing in the near future..I admire mothras belief that it is though.. nothing wrong with that... Mothra is always defending Islam and muslims. Don't tell muslims sharia law is man made they believe sharia law is gods laws. The prophet of Islam says women have deficient minds. Sunnah.com/bukhari/52/22

Didn't read the article in the OP, did you.

Give it a read and then we can go from there.

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 6:46pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:38pm: freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:31pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 11:59am: freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 6:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:29pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia? Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day. Still deflecting on irrelevancies is i see. But you avoided the question. Do we still have slavery in Australia? And at what point do you consider Australia became "progressive"? No we do not have slavery. Do you think lying about the enslavement of women in Tunisia's recent past helps the cause of women's rights? Oh but we most certainly do, FD. Sex slavery; slavery within marriages; immigrant workers etc. Do you think lying about it's existence helps the cause of these poor people? When do you consider Australia became progressive? Is that the sort of slavery you think they had in Tunisia until recently? Or do you think it might have been the type where you could wander down to the market place on a Wednesday afternoon, purchase yourself a young girl, then bring her back the next week to sell on if she didn't perform well enough?

How would you know? You only just found out that Australia still has slavery at all.

What are you pinning this on, FD? That we have a more sophisticated form of slavery than Tunisia had?

Whilst your educating yourself on slavery in Australia, see if you can find some details of the very legal form of slavery we had up until the 1970s.

But you never answered, when do you consider Australia became progressive?

Frank wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 7:06pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:10pm: Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino? Er... there are in the Anglican, Lutheran, Uniting Churches. Since when is Catholicism the counterpart of Islam?

And there are female Imams.

What is your point?

'Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights'
- mothra





Quote:

Sharia Councils and Sexual Abuse in Britain by Khadija Khan April 14, 2017     As bad as this is, there is an even darker side to the story: Under sharia law, the second husband is under no obligation to give his wife a quick divorce – allowing him to keep her as his virtual sex slave for as long as he wishes.     If one asks how all of this jibes with British law, the answer is that it does not.     The UK-based NGO, Muslim Women's Network, penned an open letter -- with 100 signatories -- to the British government and Home Affairs Select Committee demanding that the Sharia Council be investigated to determine whether its practices adhere to British law. In response, the Sharia Council declared the letter to be "Islamophobic" and accused the Muslim Women's Network of being an anti-Muslim organization.     It is British law, not sharia, law that protects Muslim individuals and couples, as it does any other citizen. Contrary to what apologists for this travesty say, the plight of Muslim women should be treated as an issue of human rights. The most recent scandal surrounding the sexual exploitation of Muslim women by Islamic religious leaders in the UK is yet further proof of the way in which Britain is turning a blind eye to horrific practices going on right under its nose. A BBC investigation into "halala" -- a ritual enabling a divorced Muslim woman to remarry her husband by first wedding someone else, consummating the union, and then being divorced by him -- revealed that imams in Britain are not only encouraging this, but profiting financially from it. This depravity has led to many such women being held hostage, literally and figuratively, to men paid to become their second husbands.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10191/sharia-councils-sexual-abuse

mothra wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 12:01pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 9:33pm: They are lying and/or are deluded, just like you. You cannot simultaneously accept Islam (women are worth half of men) and be a feminist (women have equal dignity). I know it's hard for you to understand Frank but the reality of the situation is that people re capable of interpreting things differently to you. Staggering, no?

No, dishonest.

How do you 'interpret differently' the Islamic rulings on woman's worthlessness in comparison to men?

mothra wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 10:37am:

Frank wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 7:06pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:10pm: Such ignorance. You know not all Mosques segregate the sexes, yeah? There are even female Imams. Rare, but they exist. Are there female priests within the Catholic church, Rhino? Er... there are in the Anglican, Lutheran, Uniting Churches. Since when is Catholicism the counterpart of Islam? And there are female Imams. What is your point?

can females lead men in prayer mothra?...

at least we know there is no segregation within our churches.....just wondering that all..   I have never seen a female imam in Australia..

mothra wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 10:30am:

Frank wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:21pm: No Rhino. The point is that women's rights are compatible with Islam. I'm beginning to wonder if you lot  understand the meaning of the word "compatible". How is the Koranic OK to beat your wife and for women to be worth half a man in law and in inheritance compatible, in your mind, with women's rights? Women's rights to be lesser beings in law, in religion, in society  is now 'compatible' with your understanding of equal dignity for women?? To what lengths are you prepared to go to deny that you are eating, in public, a massive turd sandwich, Mothra??   I've already answered this question,yet it shouldn't really need answering. You should be able to come up with an explanation all by yourself. Perhaps people interpret things differently to you, Frank?

This should be interesting. How do you interpret the verse from the Koran that says to beat disobedient wives Mothra?

mothra wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 10:36am:

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:46pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:38pm: freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 12:31pm: mothra wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 11:59am: freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 6:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:29pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:21pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:17pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:15pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 10:00pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:55pm: freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm: mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm: These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation. Can you give some examples of how Tunisia has been a model progressive country for hundreds of years? Slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Is it only progressive when compared to other Muslim countries, many of which still practice slavery under the approval of Islam? Did you read this before posting Mothra? Did you hear a little voice inside you saying 'bullshit'? Not at all FD. Tunisia is every bit as progressive towards women as Australia. Women have been specifically represented by laws for decades. How long have women been specifically represented by law in Australia, FD? I didn't realise we had separate laws for women Mothra. Can you explain how Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? So this is you confirming that you can't google then. I did google it. The first thing I found was that slavery persisted there until the beginning of the 20th century, despite the best efforts of the French. Can you explain how you go from there, to Tunisia has "for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation"? Do you consider slavery to be a progressive model? I'm not particularly interested in indulging you and your obvious design to railroad this thread and divert it from it's intended purpose, PD. It is noted, however, that you have been unable or unwilling to post on-topic. I'll leave you with this though. Do we currently have slavery in Australia? Your opening post, in the opening paragraph, contains a statement that is clearly false. It is so false it is absurd. It demonstrates the moral flexibility required to become a staunch apologist for Islam. When you speak up in defense of Islam, it becomes another opposite day. Still deflecting on irrelevancies is i see. But you avoided the question. Do we still have slavery in Australia? And at what point do you consider Australia became "progressive"? No we do not have slavery. Do you think lying about the enslavement of women in Tunisia's recent past helps the cause of women's rights? Oh but we most certainly do, FD. Sex slavery; slavery within marriages; immigrant workers etc. Do you think lying about it's existence helps the cause of these poor people? When do you consider Australia became progressive? Is that the sort of slavery you think they had in Tunisia until recently? Or do you think it might have been the type where you could wander down to the market place on a Wednesday afternoon, purchase yourself a young girl, then bring her back the next week to sell on if she didn't perform well enough? How would you know? You only just found out that Australia still has slavery at all. What are you pinning this on, FD? That we have a more sophisticated form of slavery than Tunisia had? Whilst your educating yourself on slavery in Australia, see if you can find some details of the very legal form of slavery we had up until the 1970s. But you never answered, when do you consider Australia became progressive?

Slavery is illegal in Australia Mothra. And the authorities actively enforce the law.

Why do you describe a country in which slavery, particularly sex slavery of women captured in Europe and Africa, was practiced quite openly until last century, and which only stopped slavery because of a concerted effort from the interfering French, as being a model progressive nation for the last few centuries?

Homosexuality is still illegal in Tunisia, and they only just stopped doing forced anal tests on suspected homosexuals. Why would you describe that as being a model progressive nations for the last few centuries?

For most of the time since Freedom House began issuing its Freedom in the World ratings, Tunisia ranked near the bottom of the ratings; it consistently garnered "Not Free" rankings in all but a few years. Why would you describe that as being a model progressive nation for the last few centuries?

Really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSbxPs3cPR4

mothra wrote on Apr 11^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights

Showing?? How are they 'showing'??  By 'claiming'? Here's the reality
Either you are a Muslim, or you are a feminist — but you can’t be both
STEPHEN CHAVURAThe Australian12:00AM May 16, 2017
It is puzzling why more women aren’t speaking out against the latest slur on feminism: the concept of feminist Islam (“Waleed Aly’s wife Susan Carland defends Islam’s feminist credentials,” The Australian, May 11).
Indeed, if it is the case that feminism and Islam are perfectly consistent, then feminism isn’t exactly the emancipators’ movement that millions have thought it to be for a couple of hundred years now. Or perhaps Islam isn’t the repressive religion we have all thought it was.
Either you are a Muslim or you are a feminist. You cannot be both. Seriously, how can a woman call herself a feminist and believe there are occasions when a husband is perfectly justified in striking his wife from whom he fears disobedience (Koran, Sura 4:34)?
Even the utterly unconvincing attempt of the two Muslim women in a viral video some weeks ago to suggest the Koran was really talking about a symbolic beating is totally out of step with any kind of feminism as we know it today.
Seriously? A husband symbolically beating his disobedient wife with a pencil or piece of cloth as consistent with female empowerment and equality?
Maybe, but only if you are comparing it to the literal meaning of the verse, which clearly ­licenses a physical beating.
Then there are the myriad social practices around the world in Islamic countries that horribly subordinate women to men or demonise women as mere tempters of men, and who deserve what they get if they tempt a man too far. Certainly many of these practices are generated by cultural conditions other than mere religion, but these cultural conditions evolve in a dialogue with religious tenets and principles.
The stoning of women, female genital mutilation, the insufficiency of a single woman’s testimony in some sharia courts and women being punished as adulterers in cases of rape may not be explicitly commanded in the Islamic scriptures but they have arisen in a cultural context heavily inspired by Islamic teaching regarding the inferiority of women, especially morally.
If we look at the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Report 2016 we see that in the overwhelming majority of the lowest (worst) ranking 44 states in terms of women’s rights and equality, Islam is the dominant ­religion. As the list of 144 climbs up from worst to best the Islamic states become fewer and far between. The World Economic Forum’s report suggests the increased status of Islam in a country correlates inversely with the extent to which women will enjoy equal rights.
It must be admitted that these countries are also very poor, which would hardly be conducive to a wide variety of choice for women in their life pursuits. Nonetheless, countries such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt are relatively developed and they are among the worst.
Also, not all of the atrocious practices against women in these countries can be explained simply by way of poverty. Poverty is not responsible for the idea that a woman is a prostitute if she cannot produce credible witnesses to her rape. Something else is going on there.
Of course, correlation is not causation but so-called feminist Muslims should not be too surprised if most people — especially their fellow women in the world’s most Muslim countries — are incredulous at their insistence that the concept of Islamic feminism makes any sense.
After all, if, as Yassmin Abdel-Magied insists, Islam is the most feminist religion, then the most Islamic countries also would be showcase nations of women’s rights. Indeed, the World Economic Forum’s list would look very different, and women from around the world would be fleeing for haven to countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, where adulteresses can be sentenced to death by stoning. But they do not.
Does this mean that Islam and feminism can never be reconciled? To be honest, only history can tell, and probably stranger things have happened: witness the emergence of religious toleration movements out of Christendom in the 16th and 17th centuries.
But to say that Islam is a feminist religion makes about as much sense as saying that communism is an individualistic ideology.
Perhaps Islam will be corrupted by the West over time, and global expressions of Islam will shift towards more equal modes of gender relations during the next 50 to 100 years.
...
One thing is certain: the notion that Islam and contemporary feminism are mutually compatible and supporting is a greater insult to feminism than any slur the patriarchy could have conjured up. If feminists fail to respond then that in itself will be a sign that feminism has lost a lot of faith in its own cause. Maybe rightly so.

Frank, tell me why its so offensive to you and Mr Chavura that a woman - and not you or Mr Chavura - gets to decide what her own faith means to her personally?

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 6:18pm:

This should be interesting. How do you interpret the verse from the Koran that says to beat disobedient wives

The answer is: you don't interpret it. You ignore it.

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 7:01pm:

Either you are a Muslim, or you are a feminist — but you can’t be both

A person can claim to be anything they wish.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 7:29pm:

Frank, tell me why its so offensive to you and Mr Chavura that a woman - and not you or Mr Chavura - gets to decide what her own faith means to her personally?

They are making claims about Islam, not just their personal lives. They are trying to speak for Muslim women, all women.

But just because someone is a woman doesn't give her a licence to talk nonsense thaty flies in the face of every evidence. Facts and evidence must bear out even a Muslim women's assertions. Asserting while Muslima doesn't make thing as she decides them to be. Not in her gift.

Auggie wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Frank wrote on May 16th, 2017 at 7:01pm: Either you are a Muslim, or you are a feminist — but you can’t be both A person can claim to be anything they wish.

Well, we know you like to claim all sorts of impossible things.

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2017 at 7:29pm: Frank, tell me why its so offensive to you and Mr Chavura that a woman - and not you or Mr Chavura - gets to decide what her own faith means to her personally? They are making claims about Islam, not just their personal lives. They are trying to speak for Muslim women, all women. But just because someone is a woman doesn't give her a licence to talk nonsense thaty flies in the face of every evidence. Facts and evidence must bear out even a Muslim women's assertions. Asserting while Muslima doesn't make thing as she decides them to be. Not in her gift.

Frank, you see, doesn't speak as a secret Danish male, but on behalf of civilisation as we know it.

He got his licence when his Australian passport finally came through.