Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting?

Are these guys integrated into Australian life?

"In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.”

Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.”

Among those at the meeting were many young children.


..
At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration.

Now the group could be banned in Australia.

When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.”

Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.”

The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting.

"The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed.

“And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well."

Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam.

They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik.

Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech.

"These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar.

Among those at the meeting were many young children.

There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University.

A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech.

Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned.

The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned.

"They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege.

Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions


https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/

Is anyone who is disgusted,  concerned or even afraid of this group an Islamophobe?

Gordon wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:50am:

Is anyone who is disgusted,  concerned or even afraid of this group an Islamophobe?

thats why this Cult is moving into Western Society...

our leaders are placing in laws that prevent us to voice concerns against this barbaric cult...

or you get the leftwits who use words like "Islamaphobe" to try and knock us down from expressing our freedom of speech...

Gordon wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:38am:

Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting? Are these guys integrated into Australian life? "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” Among those at the meeting were many young children. .. At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration. Now the group could be banned in Australia. When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting. "The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed. “And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well." Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam. They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik. Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech. "These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar. Among those at the meeting were many young children. There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University. A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech. Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned. The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned. "They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege. Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/

Absolutely disgusting sentiments.

Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this!

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:57am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:38am: Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting? Are these guys integrated into Australian life? "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” Among those at the meeting were many young children. .. At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration. Now the group could be banned in Australia. When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting. "The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed. “And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well." Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam. They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik. Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech. "These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar. Among those at the meeting were many young children. There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University. A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech. Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned. The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned. "They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege. Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/ Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this!

How do you know?

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:58am:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:57am: Gordon wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:38am: Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting? Are these guys integrated into Australian life? "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” Among those at the meeting were many young children. .. At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration. Now the group could be banned in Australia. When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting. "The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed. “And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well." Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam. They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik. Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech. "These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar. Among those at the meeting were many young children. There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University. A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech. Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned. The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned. "They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege. Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/ Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this! How do you know?

Did you see this line, Hammer?

"In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.”

I don't support capital punishment, under any circumstances.

Do you?

Do you have something in common with the Hizb ut-Tahrir leader?

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:57am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:38am: Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting? Are these guys integrated into Australian life? "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” Among those at the meeting were many young children. .. At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration. Now the group could be banned in Australia. When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting. "The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed. “And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well." Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam. They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik. Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech. "These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar. Among those at the meeting were many young children. There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University. A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech. Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned. The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned. "They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege. Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/ Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this!

But it's part of their religion so if they don't think like that does it mean they're not following their religion properly?

All of those forum members in favour of capital punishment have something in common with Hizb ut-Tahrir.

That's nice.

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:57am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:38am: Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting? Are these guys integrated into Australian life? "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” Among those at the meeting were many young children. .. At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration. Now the group could be banned in Australia. When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting. "The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed. “And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well." Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam. They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik. Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech. "These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar. Among those at the meeting were many young children. There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University. A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech. Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned. The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned. "They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege. Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/ Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this!

Would you like to take a guess at how many do?


Quote:

All of those forum members in favour of capital punishment have something in common with Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Oh look, Greg completely missed the point again.

BTW I don't want HuT banned.
I wanted them very closely monitored.

Any members who are not citizens should have their status reviewed

Part of their religion?

Perhaps you can cite the verse in the Qu'ran that specifically calls for thee death sentence for apostates?

I found this:

That image gets thrown around a lot, but it doesn’t actually give the full story. Firstly the image has grey text at the bottom which clearly says that those numbers only apply to “muslims that support sharia as the law of the land.” The Washington Post articles does not provide that information though. When all of the information is accounted for the actual percentage of muslims worldwide that support the death penalty for apostasy is about 4.21%, I go into the information more here: Death Pental for Apostacy by Jeremy Spencer on ask-a-muslim

That is still, in my opinion to high, but we also need to consider what has been happening in those countries for years. They both have not had religion separated from state, so becoming non-muslims could almost be considered becoming a traitor to the state. Not to mention near dictator regimes, rights infringements the peoples uprising, it's no surprise that they are not in the best shape.

What does Islam say:

The Qur'an says:

106 Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;

107 That is because they preferred the worldly life over the Hereafter and that Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.

108 Those are the ones over whose hearts and hearing and vision Allah has sealed, and it is those who are the heedless.

109 Assuredly, it is they, in the Hereafter, who will be the losers.
Qur'an 16:106-109

So no Earthly punishment is prescribed, but rather we are told that Allah will deal with them in the afterlife.

Now "Sharia" courts often quote 4:89 in for Apostasy, however if we look in context at this, we can see they have no footing there either:

88 What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

90 Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Qur'an 4:88-90

So as you can see verse 88 establishes what we are talking about, the 'hypocrites' or those who have 'fallen back into disbelief' which would mean apostates.

Verse 89, as I said is most quoted as the reason to kill apostates, however verse 90 lays out clear rules. Kill them, EXCEPT if they are seeking refuge from you (living in your city), if they are living between your city, and a city you have a treaty with, if they come to your city, and if they do not want to fight. Then it goes a step further to even imply that we should be good to them, because if Allah had willed, they could have overtaken us, so we should be perfectly happy that they do not want to fight or cause problems and simply accept them. The last part of the verse says it all

So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

So if they become and apostate, but do not fight you, then offer them peace, Allah does not want you to fight against them.



https://www.quora.com/Do-a-large-number-of-Muslims-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-Islam

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:57am: Gordon wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:38am: Firstly, why the bugger is this group allowed to use a public facility like a library for their meeting? Are these guys integrated into Australian life? "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” Among those at the meeting were many young children. .. At Bankstown Public library on Saturday a leader of the fundamentalist, Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir made the confronting declaration. Now the group could be banned in Australia. When asked, "Do you want to kill ex-Muslims?”, it is alleged that Uthman Badar, Hizb ut-Tahrir leader replied: "In Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that.” Hizb ut-Tahrir has a draft constitution it wants adopted in Australia. Article 7.3 reads: “Those who are guilty of apostasy from (or leaving) Islam are to be executed.” The admission terrified a former Muslim who was at the meeting. "The main reason that I left my own country was that I was worried about my own safety,” said ex-Muslim, Shakil Ahmed. “And now that I've come over here I know that they're the same people, they're already over here and they want me dead as well." Also at the meeting was his friend, who fled Bangladesh after he was put on a death list for criticising Islam. They are banned in Germany, they are banned in Turkey, they are banned in China, all those countries, so why not in Australia? Because they are dangerous,” said death list target Shubhajit Bhowmik. Another former Muslim left Pakistan to escape this kind of hate speech. "These people are making a willing choice to leave a religion that they don't agree in, I made that choice three years ago, and for that you're going to kill me,” said ex-Muslim Sabeena Mozaffar. Among those at the meeting were many young children. There's no excuse in democracies to be even suggesting this as a hypothetical possibility,” said Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University. A spokesperson for Justice Minister Michael Keenan told 7 News that the Government condemns language that incites or condones violence, saying that is not free speech. Mr. Keenan has referred the matter to the AFP and this group could now be banned. The woman who asked the question, freelance journalist Alison Bevege, believes they should be banned. "They want to destroy democracy, replace it with Sharia, they want to kill ex-Muslims, I think they've crossed the line,” said Ms. Bevege. Hizb ut-Tahrir did not respond to 7 News’ questions https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/ Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this! Would you like to take a guess at how many do? Quote: All of those forum members in favour of capital punishment have something in common with Hizb ut-Tahrir. Oh look, Greg completely missed the point again.

Not at all.

I don't support capital punishment, under any circumstances.

Those who do, however, have something in common with Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Interesting.

Capitol punishment for mass child murder isn't the same as capitol punishment for leaving a club with a fake skydaddy as leader.

Gordon wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Capitol punishment for mass child murder isn't the same as capitol punishment for leaving a club with a fake skydaddy as leader.

In both cases, a person ends up dead.

How is that different, apologist?

Gordon wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Capitol punishment for mass child murder isn't the same as capitol punishment for leaving a club with a fake skydaddy as leader.

Yet i clearly demonstrated that there is no compulsion for capital punishment of apostates in the Qu'ran. There is, instead, this:

So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them


Yet what do we have from the Bible?:

Deuteronomy 13New King James Version (NKJV)

Punishment of Apostates
13 “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you.

12 “If you hear someone in one of your cities, which the Lord your God gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 ‘Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods”’—which you have not known— 14 then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock—with the edge of the sword. 16 And you shall gather all its plunder into the middle of the street, and completely burn with fire the city and all its plunder, for the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again. 17 So none of the accursed things shall remain in your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of His anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and multiply you, just as He swore to your fathers, 18 because you have listened to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep all His commandments which I command you today, to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord your God.



https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13&version=NKJV

Gordon wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 12:11pm:

BTW I don't want HuT banned. I wanted them very closely monitored. Any members who are not citizens should have their status reviewed

Why not?  They are banned in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Libya, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, Uzbekistan, Turkey – and in most of the rest of the Middle East, except for the UAE, Lebanon and Yemen. It is also banned in Russia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and China  ...   just for starters.

Yet our government allows them into Australia to spruik their hate speech.

I want them banned here and we should demand it be so.

And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!":


Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’
6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'”

and:

“Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished."

(Matthew 5:17-18)”

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 12:57pm:

And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)”

But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs?

So Gordy, to ask you your own question, with a twist, how can Christians not execute apostates? If it is part of their religion?

Here is an article from the Guardian asking whether we should blame Islam for Terrorism. It is as relevant to this thread as any other on the subject of the Muzlim Problem. The writer starts out declaring his objectivity, and then list all the usual stuff. I will not go point by point, but it can be summed up with his attitude to the so-called "recent Jihad." He claims to prove his point by saying, "If Muzlims are resposible for terrorism, why was the religion so peaceful for so long."

This is not proof of anything other than the isolation of Muzlim populations in previous eras. Once the more educated of those tribal societies began to adopt secular ways, the writing was on the wall. Then came cheap air travel and Muzlim immigration. Take those factors out of the equation and you are almost back to what the writer takes for Peaceful Islam.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/27/should-blame-islam-terrorism

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 12:59pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs?

Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible.

Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty?

I highlighted it and everything.

Time to use some Islamophobic "logic".

- Hizb ut-Tahrir supports capital punishment.

- Rightards support capital punishment.

- Thus, Rightards support Hizb ut-Tahrir.

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything.

Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx


Quote:

Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith.

Quote:

Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same :

death to apostates.  ::)

Gnads wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 7:17pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same :

death to apostates.  ::)



[/quote]

Alas Gnads, the problem with using thereligionofpeace for a source is you only get told what raving loonies with an agenda want to tell you.

Now, what follows Qu'ran: (4:89)@

Why that would be Qu'ran (4:90) Kill them, except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.


I've already mentioned that on this thread.

Did anyone else see the elephant in the room.

This nutjob is a "respected" leader of this CULT.

Many others think the same, that is why we have problems with students being radicalized in their schools.

How many times do we hear from these LEADERS things that are abhorrent.
Children marrying old men
Calls for beheading of any one who they fell offends then (just about everyone)
Calling women cats meat if they do not dress in the ridiculious garb adopted by this CULT
"Moderate" muslims and children calling for blood during protests.

We hear from pecca and his mates that not all muzzos are radicals.
But when you see them calling for blood, praising terrorists and demanding sharia law, one must question the peacefulness of this CULT.

If the leadership is insane, as it appears.
That insanity is contagious as is the case in many CULTS
You end up with a totally insane CULT

And itvappears that this is the case.

Gnads wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 7:17pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same :

death to apostates.  ::)



[/quote]Mothra is owned!!! ;D ;D ;D

blob:https://au.news.yahoo.com/abc62daa-1f7a-48a8-8fbc-83653a8eb6ea

They should be banned ..... just as one ex Muslim said.

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 7:55pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::)

Mothra is owned!!! ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]


Read my reply to him, you imbecile.

Gnads got owned.

Furthermore i had already addressed that verse in an earlier post AND the verse that follows it.

Gnads should have done his homework better.

Gnads got owned.

Gweggy, you are slipping again.

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 7:59pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:55pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::) Mothra is owned!!! ;D ;D ;D

Read my reply to him, you imbecile.

Gnads got owned.

Furthermore i had already addressed that verse in an earlier post AND the verse that follows it.

Gnads should have done his homework better.[/quote]I;m confused you silly old fart. You said thre's  no reference to killing apostates in the koran . But it says this- until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them..


You were owned!!!

Valkie wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Gnads got owned. Gweggy, you are slipping again.

Yes i am Greg. Only one person thinks you a hate-mongering idiot.  ::)

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 8:01pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:59pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:55pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::) Mothra is owned!!! ;D ;D ;D Read my reply to him, you imbecile. Gnads got owned. Furthermore i had already addressed that verse in an earlier post AND the verse that follows it. Gnads should have done his homework better.

I;m confused you silly old fart. You said thre's  no reference to killing apostates in the koran . But it says this- until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them..


You were owned!!!
[/quote]


Read my reply .. you absolute muppet.

Verse 89, as I said is most quoted as the reason to kill apostates, however verse 90 lays out clear rules. Kill them, EXCEPT if they are seeking refuge from you (living in your city), if they are living between your city, and a city you have a treaty with, if they come to your city, and if they do not want to fight. Then it goes a step further to even imply that we should be good to them, because if Allah had willed, they could have overtaken us, so we should be perfectly happy that they do not want to fight or cause problems and simply accept them. The last part of the verse says it all

So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

So if they become and apostate, but do not fight you, then offer them peace, Allah does not want you to fight against them.



https://www.quora.com/Do-a-large-number-of-Muslims-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-Islam

2 different Qurans are there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o49ZoUsFP3g

---

stupid tart-


Quran
Quran (4:89) - "They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. 
Quran (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith that establish the death sentence for apostates are Quran verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, 9:66.



Hadith and Sira
The most reliable Hadith collection contain numerous accounts of Muhammad and his companions putting people to death for leaving Islam. According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Those who obey the Messenger obey Allah."

Sahih Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Sahih Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Sahih Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Sahih Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Sahih Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'" This verse from the Hadith is worse than it appears because it isn't speaking solely of apostates, but those who say they believe but don't put their religion into practice.

Sahih Bukhari (11:626) - "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses'."

Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe, who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" - upon finding out that grammatical changes could be made. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15) -  "The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).


Islamic Law:

There is also a consensus by all four schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (i.e., Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi, and Shafii), as well as classical Shiite jurists, that apostates from Islam must be put to death. The process of declaring a person to be an apostate is known as takfir and the disbeliever is called a murtad.

Averroes (d. 1198), the renowned philosopher and scholar of the natural sciences, who was also an important Maliki jurist, provided this typical Muslim legal opinion on the punishment for apostasy: "An apostate...is to be executed by agreement in the case of a man, because of the words of the Prophet, 'Slay those who change their din [religion]'...Asking the apostate to repent was stipulated as a condition...prior to his execution."

The contemporary (i.e., 1991) Al-Azhar (Cairo) Islamic Research Academy endorsed manual of Islamic Law, Umdat al-Salik (pp. 595-96) states:  "Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst...

Hizb ut Tahirs version of ignoring apostates

---

Gnads wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 8:11pm:

2 different Qurans are there? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o49ZoUsFP3g

Of course. Muslims are the only people to twist the words of their holy book ...  ::)

Gnads wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Hizb ut Tahirs version of ignoring apostates

Yes. They are very bad people. We've established that. We are all in agreement.

Your point?

The liberal democratic Muslims who favour a Islamic reform always stress the need to remove the killing of apostates from Islam.

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 7:59pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:55pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::) Mothra is owned!!! ;D ;D ;D

Read my reply to him, you imbecile.

Gnads got owned.

Furthermore i had already addressed that verse in an earlier post AND the verse that follows it.

Gnads should have done his homework better.[/quote]

In your ferking dreams sweetheart  ::)  ;D

Gnads wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 8:15pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:59pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:55pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::) Mothra is owned!!! ;D ;D ;D Read my reply to him, you imbecile. Gnads got owned. Furthermore i had already addressed that verse in an earlier post AND the verse that follows it. Gnads should have done his homework better.

In your ferking dreams sweetheart  ::)  ;D
[/quote]


Did you not notice?

Pity, you might have learned something.

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 8:02pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 8:00pm: Gnads got owned. Gweggy, you are slipping again. Yes i am Greg. Only one person thinks you a hate-mongering idiot.  ::)

Now, now, is that nice?

You will have to go to the back of gweggys brain if you dont play nice.

;)

And Hammer, if you are going to quote from threligionofpeace, don't be too shy to admit it.

Granted, it's a hate site for raving loonies (as wee have established) but you should always cite your sources.

https://youtu.be/d8n-eo5fDYU

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 7:43pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::)

Alas Gnads, the problem with using thereligionofpeace for a source is you only get told what raving loonies with an agenda want to tell you.

Now, what follows Qu'ran: (4:89)@

Why that would be Qu'ran (4:90) Kill them, except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.


I've already mentioned that on this thread.
[/quote]


He he     ;D

Gnads gets owned again.

Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times?

This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page.

But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon.

Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace.

Indeed.

More proof that Islamophobia rots the brain.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 9:29am:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:43pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:17pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:59pm: mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:57pm: And for anyone about to say "Oh but that's just the Old Testament!": Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'” and: “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)” But Christians around the world aren't taken their written word seriously enough to kill people hey Mothballs? Some are. But that is beside the point. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it call for death to apostates. Yet it does so clearly in the Bible. Did you miss the part where i quoted that only about 4.21% of Muslims want the death penalty for aposty? I highlighted it and everything. Got any links to support that ... piece of apologist BS? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/apostasy.aspx Quote: Quran: (4:89)-"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."  Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. [quote]Quran: (9:11-12) -"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." And there are many Hadith & Sira calling for the same : death to apostates.  ::) Alas Gnads, the problem with using thereligionofpeace for a source is you only get told what raving loonies with an agenda want to tell you. Now, what follows Qu'ran: (4:89)@ Why that would be Qu'ran (4:90) Kill them, except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them. I've already mentioned that on this thread.

He he     ;D

Gnads gets owned again.

[/quote]


In you pairs tiny egocentric minds  ::)

Now tell me are there 2 Qurans?

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace.

And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::)

Hypocrites much.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much.

Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda.

How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily?

the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research.

That is how you got owned.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 12:14pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned.

And boy, did he get owned!      ;D

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 12:22pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. And boy, did he get owned!      ;D

Yeah right, I got owned. That's coming from a muppet who equates capital punishment with murdering apostates???? ;D ;D

most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state.

when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness".

to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing.

it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek. 

they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within.

as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up.

The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution.

aquascoot wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 1:31pm:

most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution.

Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on.

Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate.

By doing so, we are, make some people very angry.

It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts.

Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 1:46pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills.

And you won't come to terms with reality. You believe it's all balloons and fairy floss. We want to speak about the unspeakable. You and your kind want to sweep it all under the carpet and call anybody brave enough to confront "the dirt" a bigot.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 12:14pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned.

You're so full of yourself you'll explode.

You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to

And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it

seems a moot point

bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy.

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 1:58pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:46pm: aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills. And you won't come to terms with reality. You believe it's all balloons and fairy floss. We want to speak about the unspeakable. You and your kind want to sweep it all under the carpet and call anybody brave enough to confront "the dirt" a bigot.

How very wrong you are.

You see, as i have explained on here many, many times, you lot aren't rational. You say you want open dialogue but you utterly prohibit it by starting from a position of falsehood and prejudice. An open dialogue simply cannot proceed from the point you are starting from. We need to re-educate you to get you back to ground zero.

You can't solve anything with prejudice.

You need to know what the facts are. Know your enemy, not imagine who you think your enemy is and what they are all about. That's not going to get you anywhere. All Muslims are not the problem. Our greatest allies in the fight against extremism are, in fact, Muslims.

Does it make good sense to isolate, pillorise, misinterpret, alienate or subject them to ill-informed prejudice? Of course it doesn't.

In this thread, falsehoods have been exposed. Falsehoods that serve no other purpose than to generate and foster hatred and fear.

See, i'm against hatred and baseless fear.

In fact, i have considerably more in common with a moderate Muslim than i do a believer in thereligionofpeace.

You say you want to fight extremism but you are extremists. You spread lies and half-truths to try to coerce and intimidate people into believing you and being similarly frighted and hateful.

Just like Jihadis do.

You're opposite sides of the same coin.

How can a reasonable person discuss ideas to counter hatred-fueled violence with you? You're so damn full of hate.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 12:22pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. And boy, did he get owned!      ;D

Not as owned as you & your Dhimmi mate Mothballs.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. You're so full of yourself you'll explode. You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it seems a moot point bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy.

No Gnads. Wrong on all counts.

There is no proclamation in the Quran for death to apostates. This has been proven. You were wrong. You believed a hate site and didn't do your own research. You got busted. Best you move on to the next point. Holding onto your mistakes is not serving you in any productive way.

And of course there aare always going to be links to counter other links. The trick is to analyse what you read, read the counter argument and discern the truth from that.

The other trick is to go to reputable sources.

I went straight to the Quran.

You went to thereligionofpeace.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 1:46pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills.

Piffle .... it's your bent perception.

It's not hate ... it's being a realist & seeing what's happening globally on the subject.

All you & Peccarhead are trying to do is to shut down debate by calling people racists, islamaphobes etc. etc

and claiming your sources are impeccable & actual fact.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 2:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:22pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. And boy, did he get owned!      ;D Not as owned as you & your Dhimmi mate Mothballs.

I'm sincerely sorry for you that you have refused this opportunity to be further educated.

Is holding onto hatred really so important to you?

tell me Gnads, what do you think that will achieve?

There is much in Islam to criticise. For example, why do some scholars and leaders continue to follow a highly questionable verse in the Hadith that allegedly calls for apostasy, despite the arguments of a great many scholars and Islam clerics who claim that it is to be overlooked?

What marks this difference?

How do we engage with those who are opposed and help them to be heard?

Do you think your way is going to do that? The way of falsehood and hatred?

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 2:19pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:46pm: aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills. Piffle .... it's your bent perception. It's not hate ... it's being a realist & seeing what's happening globally on the subject. All you & Peccarhead are trying to do is to shut down debate by calling people racists, islamaphobes etc. etc and claiming your sources are impeccable & actual fact.

But you're not seeing what is happening globally.

Globally most Islamic countries do not execute people for apostasy.

Globally only 4% of Muslims favour death for apostasy.

You are superimposing the practices of particularly nasty countries with varied human rights abuses onto the main body of Islam.

It is unfair, unwise and serves only to generate hatred and fear.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:13pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. You're so full of yourself you'll explode. You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it seems a moot point bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy. No Gnads. Wrong on all counts. There is no proclamation in the Quran for death to apostates. This has been proven. You were wrong. You believed a hate site and didn't do your own research. You got busted. Best you move on to the next point. Holding onto your mistakes is not serving you in any productive way. And of course there aare always going to be links to counter other links. The trick is to analyse what you read, read the counter argument and discern the truth from that. The other trick is to go to reputable sources. I went straight to the Quran. You went to thereligionofpeace.

Not by you.

https://www.clearquran.com/downloads/quran-english-translation-clearquran-edition-allah.pdf

Quote:

Chapter 47. Muhammad - 3. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehoods, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Allah thus cites for the people their examples. 4. When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had Allah willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of Allah, He will not let their deeds go to waste.

Quote:

Chapter 9. Repentance:- 5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. 14. Fight them. Allah will punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you against them, and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Quote:

29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide by the religion of truth—from among those who received the Scripture—until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

There is plenty of reference throughout the book that "non-believers" ... and apostates are non believers ..

are to be killed.

You've owned no one & nothing.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 3:00pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:18pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:13pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. You're so full of yourself you'll explode. You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it seems a moot point bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy. No Gnads. Wrong on all counts. There is no proclamation in the Quran for death to apostates. This has been proven. You were wrong. You believed a hate site and didn't do your own research. You got busted. Best you move on to the next point. Holding onto your mistakes is not serving you in any productive way. And of course there aare always going to be links to counter other links. The trick is to analyse what you read, read the counter argument and discern the truth from that. The other trick is to go to reputable sources. I went straight to the Quran. You went to thereligionofpeace. Not by you. https://www.clearquran.com/downloads/quran-english-translation-clearquran-edition-allah.pdf Quote: Chapter 47. Muhammad - 3. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehoods, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Allah thus cites for the people their examples. 4. When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had Allah willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of Allah, He will not let their deeds go to waste. [quote]Chapter 9. Repentance:- 5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. 14. Fight them. Allah will punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you against them, and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Quote:

29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide by the religion of truth—from among those who received the Scripture—until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

There is plenty of reference throughout the book that "non-believers" ... and apostates are non believers ..

are to be killed.

You've owned no one & nothing.[/quote]


Yes, i have proven you quite wrong. Those verses do not apply to apostates. You're stretching. They apply to war.

There is no recommendation that apostates be executed in the Quran.

And once again you have cherry picked verses out of context to try to justify your hatred. Why do you do this?

Read the verses before and after:

9.4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

9.6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.


9.13 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.


And try to understand the verses you quote in context:

47.4  So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 3:43pm:

And once again you have cherry picked verses out of context to try to justify your hatred. Why do you do this? Read the verses before and after: 9.4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. 9.6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. 9.13 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers. And try to understand the verses you quote in context: 47.4  So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

Sounds delightful Mothra. Thanks. So Allah orders Muslims to slaughter non-Muslims as a test of the Muslims?

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 4:23pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 3:43pm: And once again you have cherry picked verses out of context to try to justify your hatred. Why do you do this? Read the verses before and after: 9.4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. 9.6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. 9.13 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers. And try to understand the verses you quote in context: 47.4  So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds. Sounds delightful Mothra. Thanks. So Allah orders Muslims to slaughter non-Muslims as a test of the Muslims?

Surely an esteemed scholar of the Quran such as yourself understands the context of this verse?

It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.

It simply means take up arms, lest be taken over. And for them to trust in Allah to aid them.

Would you like to discuss all of the calls to violence in the Bible FD? Or is it just Islam that has piqued your fancy?

Quote:

It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.

Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.

mothra wrote on Mar 28^th, 2017 at 11:57am:

Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this!

Well, they are apostates then, because islam is very clear about death for those who leave Islam. Not accepting clear-cut Islamic teaching is thereby leaving Islam.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 5:32pm:

Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.

Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times.

At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions.

The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs.

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 5:41pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:57am: Absolutely disgusting sentiments. Thank goodness most Muslims don't think like this! Well, they are apostates then, because islam is vry clear about death for those who leave Islam. Not accepting clear-cut Islamic teaching is thereby leaving Islam.

Read the thread, Frank,

You've got some catching up to do.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 2:28pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:19pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:46pm: aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills. Piffle .... it's your bent perception. It's not hate ... it's being a realist & seeing what's happening globally on the subject. All you & Peccarhead are trying to do is to shut down debate by calling people racists, islamaphobes etc. etc and claiming your sources are impeccable & actual fact. But you're not seeing what is happening globally. Globally most Islamic countries do not execute people for apostasy. Globally only 4% of Muslims favour death for apostasy. You are superimposing the practices of particularly nasty countries with varied human rights abuses onto the main body of Islam. It is unfair, unwise and serves only to generate hatred and fear.

You have no idea in reality about Islam  & it's doctrine of dominance over others.

Yet if only 4% prescribe death to apostates & unbelievers.........

the other 96% are allowing them to rule the roost

and in Western countries that other 96% where they have more freedoms to stop that radical 4% ...

are doing SFA!!!!!!!!!!

Who the hell in our PC political spectrum is allowing the people who belong to this so called only 4% into our country .... & every other western country that has done the so called humanitarian thing.......

let people of this mindset in?

Don't talk shyte about the majority of Muslims when they are doing absolutely jackshit to prevent these people following them around the globe when they have supposedly fled because of Islamic extremism.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 3:42pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 3:00pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:18pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:13pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. You're so full of yourself you'll explode. You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it seems a moot point bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy. No Gnads. Wrong on all counts. There is no proclamation in the Quran for death to apostates. This has been proven. You were wrong. You believed a hate site and didn't do your own research. You got busted. Best you move on to the next point. Holding onto your mistakes is not serving you in any productive way. And of course there aare always going to be links to counter other links. The trick is to analyse what you read, read the counter argument and discern the truth from that. The other trick is to go to reputable sources. I went straight to the Quran. You went to thereligionofpeace. Not by you. https://www.clearquran.com/downloads/quran-english-translation-clearquran-edition-allah.pdf Quote: Chapter 47. Muhammad - 3. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehoods, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Allah thus cites for the people their examples. 4. When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had Allah willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of Allah, He will not let their deeds go to waste. [quote]Chapter 9. Repentance:- 5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. 14. Fight them. Allah will punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you against them, and heal the hearts of a believing people. [quote]29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide by the religion of truth—from among those who received the Scripture—until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

There is plenty of reference throughout the book that "non-believers" ... and apostates are non believers ..

are to be killed.

You've owned no one & nothing.[/quote]


Yes, i have proven you quite wrong. Those verses do not apply to apostates. You're stretching. They apply to war.

There is no recommendation that apostates be executed in the Quran.

[/quote]

No they apply to everyone who is a non believer.

The repetition that there is no recommendation regarding apostates is just pedantic.

Something that you & peccarhead excel at.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 5:32pm:

Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.

Exactly right..... Muhammad & his mates wrote the Koran ... not Allah.

If only rose coloured glasses would give her a headache

it would be a head well deserved of one.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 5:51pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs.

The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans.

The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society.

Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 5:51pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs.

So what you're saying here is the word of Muhammad not Allah.

Because after Muhammad held dominance he slaughtered those in Medina who had taken him in.

You defend the indefensible.

Low down back stabbing SOB.

Terrorists are insane
People who protect, support or otherwise aid ( through deliberate act or deliberate inaction) are also insane.

Apologists, sympathisers, and sycophants are the worst kind of insane, because they know what these mentally ill CULTs do, but still support, aid and promote them.

Its easy to tell them.
Often they have several persona, sometimes male, sometimes female.
Forums see them suporting each other, often loosing track of who they are and using similar syntax and similar wording.

But they are all the same person, attempting to attack an individual using these aliases  which appear to be supporting each other.

This is what insanity is.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:06pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs. The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans. The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society. Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans.

It was until Muhammad made up his false doctrine for domination over all others.

It was that very thing that brought about the crusades.

But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 5:59pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 3:42pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 3:00pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:18pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:13pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am: Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times? This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page. But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon. Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace. And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. ::) Hypocrites much. Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda. How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily? the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research. That is how you got owned. You're so full of yourself you'll explode. You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it seems a moot point bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy. No Gnads. Wrong on all counts. There is no proclamation in the Quran for death to apostates. This has been proven. You were wrong. You believed a hate site and didn't do your own research. You got busted. Best you move on to the next point. Holding onto your mistakes is not serving you in any productive way. And of course there aare always going to be links to counter other links. The trick is to analyse what you read, read the counter argument and discern the truth from that. The other trick is to go to reputable sources. I went straight to the Quran. You went to thereligionofpeace. Not by you. https://www.clearquran.com/downloads/quran-english-translation-clearquran-edition-allah.pdf Quote: Chapter 47. Muhammad - 3. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehoods, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Allah thus cites for the people their examples. 4. When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had Allah willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of Allah, He will not let their deeds go to waste. [quote]Chapter 9. Repentance:- 5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. 14. Fight them. Allah will punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you against them, and heal the hearts of a believing people. [quote]29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide by the religion of truth—from among those who received the Scripture—until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly. There is plenty of reference throughout the book that "non-believers" ... and apostates are non believers .. are to be killed. You've owned no one & nothing.

Yes, i have proven you quite wrong. Those verses do not apply to apostates. You're stretching. They apply to war.

There is no recommendation that apostates be executed in the Quran.

[/quote]

No they apply to everyone who is a non believer.

The repetition that there is no recommendation regarding apostates is just pedantic.

Something that you & peccarhead excel at.
[/quote]



Gnads, think carefully now, the verses you have quoted apply to war. To enemies. Not apostates.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Exactly right..... Muhammad & his mates wrote the Koran ... not Allah. If only rose coloured glasses would give her a headache it would be a head well deserved of one.

You think i am arguing that Allah wrote the Quran?

Have you completely lost your mind?

I'm an atheist.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:11pm:

But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.

Would you like to have a guess at the percentage of Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy?

Insanity, thy name is ISLAM

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:11pm:

But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.

There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it.

In this case words are empty & results non existent.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:11pm:

But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.

Excuse the pun .... B ut they're here & operating in this country when they've been banned in many countries including Muslim countries.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:06pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs. The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans. The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society. Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans.

Alas, you probably believe all of that.

An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites.

History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities.
Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them.

How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you?

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:16pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm: But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority. Would you like to have a guess at the percentage of Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy?

Already stated. Read back.

Valkie wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:17pm:

Insanity, thy name is ISLAM

Hush now. The grown-ups are talking.

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:19pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm: But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority. There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it. In this case words are empty & results non existent.

Of course there's such a thing! Don't be silly!

You think 1.6 billion people are waging Jihad?

[highlight][/highlight]
mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:16pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:02pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Exactly right..... Muhammad & his mates wrote the Koran ... not Allah. If only rose coloured glasses would give her a headache it would be a head well deserved of one. You think i am arguing that Allah wrote the Quran? Have you completely lost your mind? I'm an atheist.

No ... you have by all accounts.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:27pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:17pm: Insanity, thy name is ISLAM Hush now. The grown-ups are talking.

Your persona is slipping again.
Who are you now?

Is you mind getting confused?

Try to keep to the same persona for a while.

Valkie wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:33pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:27pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:17pm: Insanity, thy name is ISLAM Hush now. The grown-ups are talking. Your persona is slipping again. Who are you now? Is you mind getting confused? Try to keep to the same persona for a while.

Yrs of course Valkie. You just keep right on pretending only one person thinks you're a loon.

Whatever gets you through the night. With all that hate in you, sleep must be difficult enough.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:19pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm: But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority. There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it. In this case words are empty & results non existent. Of course there's such a thing! Don't be silly! You think 1.6 billion people are waging Jihad?

Who's stretching now?

Did I say that?

though 160 million plus definitely are.

All the so called moderate Islamic countries have had elections installing more hardliners ... i.e. Turkey, Egypt.

Syria is in conflict

Jordan is classed as "partly free" in the Freedom of the World 2017 report.

Seems your moderate Muslims are definitely without voice or actions.

You're full of it.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:37pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:33pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:27pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:17pm: Insanity, thy name is ISLAM Hush now. The grown-ups are talking. Your persona is slipping again. Who are you now? Is you mind getting confused? Try to keep to the same persona for a while. Yrs of course Valkie. You just keep right on pretending only one person thinks you're a loon. Whatever gets you through the night. With all that hate in you, sleep must be difficult enough.

Actually I sleep quite well.
Im not trying to get all the voices to shut up in my head like you.
There is only me...

Besides, I know the truth and speak it.
You know the truth and hide it,
Apologist, sycophantic, sympathiser

Gnads wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:43pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:30pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:19pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm: But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority. There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it. In this case words are empty & results non existent. Of course there's such a thing! Don't be silly! You think 1.6 billion people are waging Jihad? Who's stretching now? Did I say that? though 160 million plus definitely are. All the so called moderate Islamic countries have had elections installing more hardliners ... i.e. Turkey, Egypt. Syria is in conflict Jordan is classed as "partly free" in the Freedom of the World 2017 report. Seems your moderate Muslims are definitely without voice or actions. You're full of it.

160 million are?

Link.

And it better not be thereligionofpeace.

And to be clear, i mean jihad of the sword.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:46pm:

And to be clear, i mean jihad of the sword.

So bombs, cars and trucks are ok then?

Valkie wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:46pm: And to be clear, i mean jihad of the sword. So bombs, cars and trucks are ok then?

Are you for real?

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:43pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:30pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:19pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm: But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority. There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it. In this case words are empty & results non existent. Of course there's such a thing! Don't be silly! You think 1.6 billion people are waging Jihad? Who's stretching now? Did I say that? though 160 million plus definitely are. All the so called moderate Islamic countries have had elections installing more hardliners ... i.e. Turkey, Egypt. Syria is in conflict Jordan is classed as "partly free" in the Freedom of the World 2017 report. Seems your moderate Muslims are definitely without voice or actions. You're full of it. 10 million are? Link. And it better not be thereligionofpeace.

Why don't you chase it up?

There are multiple sites by various commentators regarding the percentage of those that support radical fundamental Islam being imposed globally.

It varies from 10 to 25 %.

I didn't mention 10 million.

And if it were 10 million .... that's still a lot of people aiming for the destruction of democracy & the west.

None the less all those moderate men who have scarpered to Europe & everywhere else leaving their women & children behind are even more proof that moderates are doing SFA.

Syrian women believe it's against Islam ...

and if I remember rightly .... Allah commanded all men not to turn their backs on their enemies .... but to turn & face them & fight.

You're still so full of shyte it will burst you before your ego.

 

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:43pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:30pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:19pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm: But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates. As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them? What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all? Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists? Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace? Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority. There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it. In this case words are empty & results non existent. Of course there's such a thing! Don't be silly! You think 1.6 billion people are waging Jihad? Who's stretching now? Did I say that? though 160 million plus definitely are. All the so called moderate Islamic countries have had elections installing more hardliners ... i.e. Turkey, Egypt. Syria is in conflict Jordan is classed as "partly free" in the Freedom of the World 2017 report. Seems your moderate Muslims are definitely without voice or actions. You're full of it. 160 million are? Link. And it better not be thereligionofpeace.

You edited that  >:(

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:49pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:48pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:46pm: And to be clear, i mean jihad of the sword. So bombs, cars and trucks are ok then? Are you for real?

You dont like it back at you do you?

One liners that simplt state obtuse things.

Perhaps you will be more sensible and actually see both sides forva change.

A good debater looks at both sides of an argument and looks for the strength in thier own argument.
Not by insulting and stating superfluous random facts that add nothing to the debate.

Try looking at the real reasons people distrust muslims, reason it out and see this CULT the way normal people do.

Isolationist, secretive, brutal, primitive and argumentitive in the extreme.

10 million was a typo. See edit.

So, couldn't find anything that wasn't from a hate site, hey? No surprises.

There are no more men in the refugee mix than women in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon. It's an even split, according to the UN. Slightly more women, if you must know. You've been listening to propaganda again.


As for Europe, 62% are men, 22% are children and 16% women. It is well reported that these men are largely escaping conscription.

As for your interesting statement "Allah commanded all men not to turn their backs on their enemies .... but to turn & face them & fight." ... does that not just invalidate your argument entirely?

Clearly most Muslims do not take the Quran literally.

Valkie wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:55pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:49pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:48pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:46pm: And to be clear, i mean jihad of the sword. So bombs, cars and trucks are ok then? Are you for real? You dont like it back at you do you? One liners that simplt state obtuse things. Perhaps you will be more sensible and actually see both sides forva change. A good debater looks at both sides of an argument and looks for the strength in thier own argument. Not by insulting and stating superfluous random facts that add nothing to the debate. Try looking at the real reasons people distrust muslims, reason it out and see this CULT the way normal people do. Isolationist, secretive, brutal, primitive and argumentitive in the extreme.

You're seriously suggesting someone else looks at the other side of an argument?

Oh Valkie, you're priceless!

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 7:07pm:

Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:55pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:49pm: Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:48pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:46pm: And to be clear, i mean jihad of the sword. So bombs, cars and trucks are ok then? Are you for real? You dont like it back at you do you? One liners that simplt state obtuse things. Perhaps you will be more sensible and actually see both sides forva change. A good debater looks at both sides of an argument and looks for the strength in thier own argument. Not by insulting and stating superfluous random facts that add nothing to the debate. Try looking at the real reasons people distrust muslims, reason it out and see this CULT the way normal people do. Isolationist, secretive, brutal, primitive and argumentitive in the extreme. You're seriously suggesting someone else looks at the other side of an argument? Oh Valkie, you're priceless!

As a matter of fact, that is not quite true.

Some businesses pay $120.00 an hour for me to consult but I have been able to get up to $175.00 an hour at others.
So, technically, I can be bought, or at least my skills and experience that is.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:25pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs. The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans. The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society. Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans. Alas, you probably believe all of that. An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites. History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities. Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them. How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you?

So, they spent ten years robbing Meccan caravans in an attempt to stop the Meccans from retaliating over the constant caravan raiding?

Or was it a grand scheme by the Muslims so they could later attack Mecca?

Muhammad did not preach against plundering. He lead the plundering.

Again, you prove to be wrong on every single count Mothra.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:58pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:46pm: aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills. And you won't come to terms with reality. You believe it's all balloons and fairy floss. We want to speak about the unspeakable. You and your kind want to sweep it all under the carpet and call anybody brave enough to confront "the dirt" a bigot. How very wrong you are. You see, as i have explained on here many, many times, you lot aren't rational. You say you want open dialogue but you utterly prohibit it by starting from a position of falsehood and prejudice. An open dialogue simply cannot proceed from the point you are starting from. We need to re-educate you to get you back to ground zero. You can't solve anything with prejudice. You need to know what the facts are. Know your enemy, not imagine who you think your enemy is and what they are all about. That's not going to get you anywhere. All Muslims are not the problem. Our greatest allies in the fight against extremism are, in fact, Muslims. Does it make good sense to isolate, pillorise, misinterpret, alienate or subject them to ill-informed prejudice? Of course it doesn't. In this thread, falsehoods have been exposed. Falsehoods that serve no other purpose than to generate and foster hatred and fear. See, i'm against hatred and baseless fear. In fact, i have considerably more in common with a moderate Muslim than i do a believer in thereligionofpeace. You say you want to fight extremism but you are extremists. You spread lies and half-truths to try to coerce and intimidate people into believing you and being similarly frighted and hateful. Just like Jihadis do. You're opposite sides of the same coin. How can a reasonable person discuss ideas to counter hatred-fueled violence with you? You're so damn full of hate.

In fact, i have considerably more in common with a moderate Muslim than i do a believer in thereligionofpeace.......


At least they believe in something. What you are is a victim mothballs. History is full of your type. You are a reed blowing in the wind. Whoever blows the wind pulls your strings and you wobble back and forth. The militant strand of Islam blow the moderates back and forth. Wake up and smell the roses. We are the fighters, you are the victims.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 6:25pm:

Alas, you probably believe all of that. An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites. History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities. Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them. How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you?

So do you accept Mohammed as your personal, moral and practical guide to how to conduct raids on caravans?

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 7:55pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:25pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs. The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans. The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society. Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans. Alas, you probably believe all of that. An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites. History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities. Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them. How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you? So, they spent ten years robbing Meccan caravans in an attempt to stop the Meccans from retaliating over the constant caravan raiding? Or was it a grand scheme by the Muslims so they could later attack Mecca? Muhammad did not preach against plundering. He lead the plundering. Again, you prove to be wrong on every single count Mothra.

Where on earth did you pull 10 years from? The Muslims went to Medina in 622. The first raid on Medina was in 623, and there were other skirmishes.

The Battle of Badr itself was in was in early 624.

10 years? Not even close.

The raids were to interrupt the  war-making capabilities and to interrupt Quraish trade routes that were passing too close to Medina.

But listen FD, if they were plundering, would it not be justified? As the Meccans had seized all of their property an wealth and sold off everything they seized for financial benefit?

But anyway, i digress. There are several Hadiths that refer specifically to plundering:

The thief is not a believer while he is stealing. The plunderer is not a believer while he is plundering and the people are watching him.
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī2343

Whoever plunders the wealth of others is not one of us.
Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 1123

Whoever is notorious for plunder is not one of us.
Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4391

Verily, plunder is unlawful.
Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 3938

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 8:05pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:13pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:58pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:46pm: aquascoot wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:31pm: most of these threads involve mothra and gwegs addiction to a certain emotional state. when you are mediocre and you dont have a lot going on in your life, you tend to be in a state of permanent "pissed off edness". to keep feeding this state (because emotional states are addictive and the addict needs his hit), gweg and mothra need to keep the hate flowing. it would be best if those of the noble right ceased feeding the addicts the drug they seek.  they both need to be weaned off this cycle of "unfocused discontent" and "drawing state from the environment" and then they can look deep inside themselves and try to draw peace and contentment from within. as long as there is an environment and they keep getting fed the insults which they are sooooo addicted to, there is no hope for them to move up. The noble rightard needs to stop interacting with them, in a spirit of contribution. Horse-boy, once again demonstrating he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Greg and (and others) are speaking up against hate. By doing so, we are, make some people very angry. It is the that don't want to let go of their hate ... and they similarly hate having their hatred challenged with cool, even-handed facts. Let go of your prejudice against the left Horse-boy. It's severely clouding your observational skills. And you won't come to terms with reality. You believe it's all balloons and fairy floss. We want to speak about the unspeakable. You and your kind want to sweep it all under the carpet and call anybody brave enough to confront "the dirt" a bigot. How very wrong you are. You see, as i have explained on here many, many times, you lot aren't rational. You say you want open dialogue but you utterly prohibit it by starting from a position of falsehood and prejudice. An open dialogue simply cannot proceed from the point you are starting from. We need to re-educate you to get you back to ground zero. You can't solve anything with prejudice. You need to know what the facts are. Know your enemy, not imagine who you think your enemy is and what they are all about. That's not going to get you anywhere. All Muslims are not the problem. Our greatest allies in the fight against extremism are, in fact, Muslims. Does it make good sense to isolate, pillorise, misinterpret, alienate or subject them to ill-informed prejudice? Of course it doesn't. In this thread, falsehoods have been exposed. Falsehoods that serve no other purpose than to generate and foster hatred and fear. See, i'm against hatred and baseless fear. In fact, i have considerably more in common with a moderate Muslim than i do a believer in thereligionofpeace. You say you want to fight extremism but you are extremists. You spread lies and half-truths to try to coerce and intimidate people into believing you and being similarly frighted and hateful. Just like Jihadis do. You're opposite sides of the same coin. How can a reasonable person discuss ideas to counter hatred-fueled violence with you? You're so damn full of hate. In fact, i have considerably more in common with a moderate Muslim than i do a believer in thereligionofpeace....... At least they believe in something. What you are is a victim mothballs. History is full of your type. You are a reed blowing in the wind. Whoever blows the wind pulls your strings and you wobble back and forth. The militant strand of Islam blow the moderates back and forth. Wake up and smell the roses. We are the fighters, you are the victims.

LOL! You're not a fighter, You're a sad little Islamophobe and purveyor of intolerance, lies and hatred who just utterly missed every single point made to him.

mothra wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 9:13pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 7:55pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:25pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs. The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans. The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society. Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans. Alas, you probably believe all of that. An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites. History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities. Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them. How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you? So, they spent ten years robbing Meccan caravans in an attempt to stop the Meccans from retaliating over the constant caravan raiding? Or was it a grand scheme by the Muslims so they could later attack Mecca? Muhammad did not preach against plundering. He lead the plundering. Again, you prove to be wrong on every single count Mothra. Where on earth did you pull 10 years from? The Muslims went to Medina in 622. The first raid on Medina was in 623, and there were other skirmishes. The Battle of Badr itself was in was in early 624. 10 years? Not even close. The raids were to interrupt the  war-making capabilities and to interrupt Quraish trade routes that were passing too close to Medina. But listen FD, if they were plundering, would it not be justified? As the Meccans had seized all of their property an wealth and sold off everything they seized for financial benefit? But anyway, i digress. There are several Hadiths that refer specifically to plundering: The thief is not a believer while he is stealing. The plunderer is not a believer while he is plundering and the people are watching him. Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī2343 Whoever plunders the wealth of others is not one of us. Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 1123 Whoever is notorious for plunder is not one of us. Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4391 Verily, plunder is unlawful. Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 3938

If a muslim steals from another muslim they chop his hand off.

Why does allah need 20% of all war booty mothballs?

What sort of god demands 20% of all war booty?

quran.com/8/41

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 29^th, 2017 at 9:34pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:13pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 7:55pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:25pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm: freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Quote: It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority. Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength. Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times. At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions. The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs. The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans. The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society. Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans. Alas, you probably believe all of that. An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites. History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities. Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them. How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you? So, they spent ten years robbing Meccan caravans in an attempt to stop the Meccans from retaliating over the constant caravan raiding? Or was it a grand scheme by the Muslims so they could later attack Mecca? Muhammad did not preach against plundering. He lead the plundering. Again, you prove to be wrong on every single count Mothra. Where on earth did you pull 10 years from? The Muslims went to Medina in 622. The first raid on Medina was in 623, and there were other skirmishes. The Battle of Badr itself was in was in early 624. 10 years? Not even close. The raids were to interrupt the  war-making capabilities and to interrupt Quraish trade routes that were passing too close to Medina. But listen FD, if they were plundering, would it not be justified? As the Meccans had seized all of their property an wealth and sold off everything they seized for financial benefit? But anyway, i digress. There are several Hadiths that refer specifically to plundering: The thief is not a believer while he is stealing. The plunderer is not a believer while he is plundering and the people are watching him. Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī2343 Whoever plunders the wealth of others is not one of us. Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 1123 Whoever is notorious for plunder is not one of us. Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4391 Verily, plunder is unlawful. Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 3938 If a muslim steals from another muslim they chop his hand off. Why does allah need 20% of all war booty mothballs? What sort of god demands 20% of all war booty? quran.com/8/41

8:41 And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the [stranded] traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.


I don't understand your confusion. Is it the word "and" that is tripping you up?

and
ənd,(ə)n,and/Submit
conjunction

1. used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly.
"bread and butter"
synonyms:      together with, along with, with, as well as, in addition to, including, also, too; More

2. used to introduce an additional comment or interjection.
"if it came to a choice—and this was the worst thing—she would turn her back on her parents"