The perpetrators of the My Lai massacre went virtually unpunished. The symbol of the maassacre, Lt. Willima Calley was pardoned by Richard Nixon and didn not serve one day in jail for atrocious crimes.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/21/my-lai-massacre-49-years-later/


Quote:

It is these two words, “National Shame,” that continues to hide the truth of what really happened in Southeast Asia. ... This is what the U.S. Military did on that day on March 16, 1968. I use the word “We,” because our taxes paid for the massacre, and our ignorance about the war wrote the check. Among the dead were a hundred and eighty-two women, seventeen of them pregnant. A hundred and seventy-three children were executed, including fifty-six infants. Sixty older men were also murdered. The museum at My Lai, includes the accounting of another important fact: there was another village located about a mile away from My Lai 4, called My Khe 4, that U.S. soldiers from Bravo Company on the same day, also committed atrocities. So, 407 were murdered at My Lai 4, and 97 were murdered at My Khe 4, for a total of 504 Vietnamese civilians. It also must be noted, that there were twenty rapes committed, not to include attempted rapes. I have chosen not to go into detail about how those executions were committed, or the torture and extreme suffering that was committed by American soldiers under Pentagon command. This butcher shop mentality would be extremely difficult to read and comprehend by most people. I will say this, and it is a quote from Larry Colburn, who was a door gunner on Hugh Thompson’s helicopter that landed on the ground during the massacre, and attempted to stop the killing. These are Larry Colburn’s words: ” The only thing the U.S. soldiers did not do was cook them and eat them.” In order to understand WHY these two massacres were committed on March 16, 1968, a synopsis and history of what happened in Quang Ngai Province during the war would be helpful for the reader. I came across an article written on October 2, 1994, by award winning author, and Vietnam veteran, Tim O’Brien. The title of the article is: “The Vietnam in Me.”  These are his words: ” In the years preceding the murders at My Lai, more than 70 percent of the villages in Quang Ngai Province had been destroyed by air strikes, artillery fire, Zippo lighters, napalm, white phosphorus, bulldozers, gunships and other such means. Roughly 40 percent of the population had lived in refugee camps, while civilian casualties in the area were approaching 50,000 a year. These numbers, reported by the journalist Jonathan Schell in 1967, were later confirmed as substantially correct by Government investigators. Not that I needed confirmation. Back in 1969, the wreckage was all around us, so common it seemed part of the geography, as natural as any mountain or river. Wreckage was the rule. Brutality was S.O.P. Scalded children, pistol-whipped women, burning hootches, free-fire zones, body counts, indiscriminate bombing and harassment fire, villages in ash, M-60 machine guns hosing down dark green tree lines and human life behind them. ... I have personally known many Vietnam veterans who were destroyed by their experiences in Vietnam. At least four of my friends died from Agent Orange exposure, to include my brother-in-law. One died from a head on car collision, one died homeless on the streets, and two hung themselves. It does not surprise me that more Vietnam veterans have committed suicide than were killed in Vietnam. According to the Veterans Administration, one veteran commits suicide every hour in this country.

You're a nasty bit of work.

...and Effendi cares about are some people Mo allegedly got pissed off at a squillion millennia ago.

Let's pretend this actual 'genocide' of actual real women, children and old men never happened......at the hands of 'Onward Christian Soldiers.'

Everyone hold hands now and sing along:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGyu7l3KcU

Gnads wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 7:24pm:

You're a nasty bit of work.

I'm trying to work out what Unforgiven is trying to say here that hasn't been publicised a million times since these events happened.

What he and his ilk should acknowledge but never do, is that Western nations are totally unique in the world for having a free press that exposes these barbarities without fear of a secret police agency hauling them off in the dark, never to be seen or heard from again.

That's the subtext to this story. It's a celebration of the system we live under that such revelations can be widely published without people going missing.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 7:38pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:24pm: You're a nasty bit of work. I'm trying to work out what Unforgiven is trying to say here that hasn't been publicised a million times since these events happened. What he and his ilk should acknowledge but never do, is that Western nations are totally unique in the world for having a free press that exposes these barbarities without fear of a secret police agency hauling them off in the dark, never to be seen or heard from again. That's the subtext to this story. It's a celebration of the system we live under that such revelations can be widely published without people going missing.

Bullshit Herbert.  Not one of those murderous arsehole 'Onward Chritian Soldiers' went punished....not one.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 7:38pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:24pm: You're a nasty bit of work. I'm trying to work out what Unforgiven is trying to say here that hasn't been publicised a million times since these events happened. What he and his ilk should acknowledge but never do, is that Western nations are totally unique in the world for having a free press that exposes these barbarities without fear of a secret police agency hauling them off in the dark, never to be seen or heard from again. That's the subtext to this story. It's a celebration of the system we live under that such revelations can be widely published without people going missing.

Are you kidding? We want a system where the race-traitors are rounded up in the middle of the night and rewarded with a bullet in the back of the neck.

Don't worry, Herbie. They'll be dealt with in the fullness of time.

Big Donger wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 7:48pm:

Are you kidding? We want a system where the race-traitors are rounded up in the middle of the night and rewarded with a bullet in the back of the neck.

Do you include muslims in that diatribe, or are you attempting to be more selective?

Sort of, all whites are scum and lets killem?

Non whites are good, all whites are bad?

Could go on but it would be lost on you...........

Careful tho 18c is up for a revamp, and racist bigots like you WILL be challenged more often in the future, about time too!

Tim O'Brien operated in that area with the 196th Light Infantry - he said that while he could understand the Me Lie (that's how we pronounce it around here) massacre, based on his own experiences in Pinkville - he could not condone it.

Therein lies the nub of this matter.  Condemn all you want - but don't adhere the same standard to all Veterans.

The one that concerns me most is the company commander who escaped any criticism or charge despite giving out information that lead the troops to believe they were walking into a hardcore VC ville....

Women, children and old men?  Not likely.... but remember the NVA massacred thousands of men, women and children at Hue and dumped them in shallow trenches.... for simply wishing to follow the Middle Way of no adherence to any side....

US troops learned the trade of evil at the hands of the NVA and some VC (there is a huge difference), going all the way back to 1965, when captured Americans were tortured and had obscene things done to them.  101st Airborne troopers had to listen to the screams of five of their friends as they were tortured with knives and such all night.... next day NVA prisoners all arrived at Rakkasan HQ dead with a bullet to the back of the head.

Leave it.. and go your way in peace.

Aussie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 7:45pm:

Bullshit Herbert.  Not one of those murderous arsehole 'Onward Chritian Soldiers' went punished....not one.

WHERE did I say I'm excusing them?

They should have been given 25 years with no parole.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 8:16pm:

Tim O'Brien operated in that area with the 196th Light Infantry - he said that while he could understand the Me Lie (that's how we pronounce it around here) massacre, based on his own experiences in Pinkville - he could not condone it. Therein lies the nub of this matter.  Condemn all you want - but don't adhere the same standard to all Veterans. The one that concerns me most is the company commander who escaped any criticism or charge despite giving out information that lead the troops to believe they were walking into a hardcore VC ville.... Women, children and old men?  Not likely.... but remember the NVA massacred thousands of men, women and children at Hue and dumped them in shallow trenches.... for simply wishing to follow the Middle Way of no adherence to any side.... US troops learned the trade of evil at the hands of the NVA and some VC (there is a huge difference), going all the way back to 1965, when captured Americans were tortured and had obscene things done to them.  101st Airborne troopers had to listen to the screams of five of their friends as they were tortured with knives and such all night.... next day NVA prisoners all arrived at Rakkasan HQ dead with a bullet to the back of the head. Leave it.. and go your way in peace.

well said grap....we should be looking  a Aleppo..

just a hint on whats happening RIGHT NOW..

In the last week, Foua and Kefraya have been targeted by Islamist rockets and Madaya has been hit by Hezbollah shelling in a bloody tit-for-tat in which civilians continue to suffer.

Approximately one million people in Syria live under siege conditions, Siege Watch says. A proportion of that number are trapped in the northern city of Deir ez Zour by Isis, a handful by other rebels, and the majority live under regime blockades.


the past is the past....

as you  can see......

we have learnt not a thing.. :( :( :( :(

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm: Bullshit Herbert.  Not one of those murderous arsehole 'Onward Chritian Soldiers' went punished....not one. WHERE did I say I'm excusing them? They should have been given 25 years with no parole.

What, for keeping a village of rice-eating hoardes from invading our shores?

They should have been given a medal.

Oh, they were.

Quote:

Women, children and old men?  Not likely.... but remember the NVA massacred thousands of men, women and children at Hue and dumped them in shallow trenches.... for simply wishing to follow the Middle Way of no adherence to any side.... US troops learned the trade of evil at the hands of the NVA and some VC (there is a huge difference), going all the way back to 1965, when captured Americans were tortured and had obscene things done to them.  101st Airborne troopers had to listen to the screams of five of their friends as they were tortured with knives and such all night.... next day NVA prisoners all arrived at Rakkasan HQ dead with a bullet to the back of the head. Leave it.. and go your way in peace.

No.

We had no place there, it was their schit fight, we stuck our nose in, and we limped off leaving the place farked.  Just like we are doing and always have done in the Land of Arabs.

In my life time, the only attack directly on the West by the non West was by the Japs at Pearl Harbour and they deserved their arse handed to them.....even though I am sure they did not attack without some cause/reason they thought was just.

Get some

https://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI

HCM was an effing cart who was killing hundreds of thousands of people in pursuit of his communist utopia.

Props to him (and Giap) for resisting the Japs (who's invasion caused about 2million deaths) then booting out the frogs but after that he turned on anyone who didn't support communism and killed them.

Supporting the people who didn't want to be communist was justifiable but not well executed.

Gordon wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 9:26pm:

Get some https://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI

https://youtu.be/tkxWudy8SfE


I Love The Smell Of Napalm In The Morning

Hollywood Kids - gotta love 'em....

Welcome to the jungle..... hope you never have to go there....

In the Middle East, the women and kids and old men are more at risk from 'Islamic fighters' than from US bombs and drones etc.  SS-DD - the NVA at Hue acted on 'you're either with us or you are against us' - and killed thousands who had no interest in the war, and who, in the Buddhist way, suggested a Middle Road.  You need to realise that Viet Nam was composed of different ethnic groups and religious groups - the Buddhists who copped it from both 'north' and 'south', the South which was primarily Catholic, and the North who wanted One Nation by any means.

It is ALWAYS the civilians who take the most hits - for one reason - they have no defence.

The difference in THIS society is - we don't kill those who are 'not with us' - we simply sideline them into poverty and lack of opportunity to get ahead and thus destroy them nonetheless.

Nothing new under the sun......

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:35pm:

I Love The Smell Of Napalm In The Morning

That's the smell of SprintCyclist's brain decaying from the death porn he reads.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 11:19pm:

Hollywood Kids - gotta love 'em.... Welcome to the jungle..... hope you never have to go there.... ..

Bloody oath.

Gordon wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 9:47pm:

HCM was an effing cart who was killing hundreds of thousands of people in pursuit of his communist utopia. Props to him (and Giap) for resisting the Japs (who's invasion caused about 2million deaths) then booting out the frogs but after that he turned on anyone who didn't support communism and killed them. Supporting the people who didn't want to be communist was justifiable but not well executed.

Such simplistic analyses of the Indochina War(s).  Ho Chi Min was a very smart man, he used his influence to gain popularity amongst the Vietnamese.  To them, he was George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill, all rolled into one.  When he declared Vietnam's independence from the French in 1945, he cleverly used words and sentences from the US Declaration of Independence and the wrote to FDR asking for his help in stopping the French coming back.

FDR was of course dead by then, Truman was more interested in shoring up France than a tin-pot Communist in Indochina.  The French cleverly tried to use Ho Chi Min to defeat the various, other independence groups in Vietnam.  He was quite willing to work with them, as long it suited him.   When the French turned on him and shelled Haiphong, he'd eliminated about 80% of his opposition.   The Vietnamese were quite willing to support him when they once more suffered at the hands of the French.   With Giap, he made several mistakes along the way but the French ended up defeated.   The US and China tried to step in and do the dirty on HGM and Giap but were nearly outmanoeuvred at Geneva.

Vietnam ended up divided.  The Chinese were quite happy with that outcome (they hated the Vietnamese).  The Americans tried to foment revolution in the North but were defeated.  About half as many Communists moved North as Catholics and Right-Wingers moved South.  They were to form the nucleus of the National Liberation Front (NLF otherwise known by the Americans as the "Viet Cong" or "VC"). 

By 1963, Diem was dead, the South was in chaos, and the Americans were now the backers of the Southern regime.  The NLF was moving back South, restarting their Cadres and committing Terrorist acts in Saigon and other cities and villages.   Australia allowed itself to become dragged into the morass and so did the US.  We sent a "Task Force" (as the traditional Brigade had become named) in 1965, after a disastrous tour with the US 173rd Airborne Brigade.

The Americans wanted to fight the "war of the big battalions" and tried to kill more NLF and PAVN (Peoples' Army of Vietnam - "North Vietnamese Army"  - "NVA") soldiers than could come down the Ho Chi Min trail from North Vietnam.  They left the local population to the South's regime and their military forces.  This allowed the political cadres to be active, to "convert" the population to supporting the NLF.   The NLF fought against the Americans when they felt they could win.  Thousands of Americans were wounded or killed.  Billions of dollars of military equipment and munitions were expended.  Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese died.

The Australian Task Force, basing it's experience on what it had learnt in the Pacific War, in Korea and in Malay and Borneo, fought a counter-revolutionary war.  We basically won our war.   We invariably defeated the NLF and PAVN in most small-scale engagements.  We defeated them in all large scale engagements.  Our primary objective was to prevent the NLF from living off the locals and from "converting" them to their cause.   We defended them and their villages.

1968 and the Tet Offensive was the turning point for the Americans (and Australians).  The Americans believed they'd lost the battle, the NLF had penetrated to the US Embassy in Saigon.  In reality the NLF and PAVN had lost the Offensive.  By coming out of the shadows to take and hold ground, they exposed themselves to the massive American firepower available.   They were massacred.   So, when Nixon announced troop reductions, the NLF was shattered, the Southern arm of the PAVN was shattered.   It took them years to rebuild and in reality, they were never as good as they had been.

"Vietnamisation" had begun, the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) was built up, it was given new weapons, training and support and then put into the field to replace the American Army.  As long as it had US support, it was adequate.  As long as the NLF and PAVN were rebuilding, it was adequate.   When the US finally pulled the pin and signed a peace treaty with the North and pulled out, the writing was on the wall.   Australia had already pulled out before the election of Gough Whitlam in December 1972.  All we had left was the remainders of AATTV (Australian Army Training Team Vietnam).   Gough pulled them out as well, leaving the ARVN and the RF/PF (Regional Force/Popular Force) militias to their own ends.

1972 saw a massive, conventional offensive from the North, over the DMZ (De-Militarised Zone) into the South which was only defeated by the application of USAF firepower.  1975 saw the final offensive.

Vietnam was a mess, from start to finish.  The French stuffed it up.  The Americans stuffed it up.  Even the Australians, while more successful made their own string of mistakes (dare I mention the Barrier Minefield?).   Even the North stuffed it up upon occasion.  The South we won't even mention - they were just interested in how much money they could milk from the Americans.

My Lai was an aberration.  What was remarkable was that the US Army weren't all "murderous criminals", considering the strain they were under.   My Lai was the consequence of creating a unit "in country" using the gutter-sweepings for the most part of other units, "in country".  The "Americal" Division was made up of good units and bad units and Lt. Calley's platoon had some of the worst amongst it's number.   It had been subjected to months of endless boobytraps and what are now known as "IEDs" attacks.   That day, they just "snapped".  Calley failed to control his troops and he participated in numerous atrocities.   I've read the US Army's Courts Martial proceedings and they make chilling reading.  He deserved a long, long, prison term, if not execution, as did many of his soldiers.   Nixon commuted his sentence to home detention and then let him off completely with a pardon.   Another crime that Nixon is guilty of IMO.   ::) ::)

And not one murmur from Effendi on this 'genocide' we know did happen.   If Callay and his men were Muslim, we'd never hear the end of it.

USA killed millions in Asia and left behind a legacy of death and environmental damage in agent orange and unexploded munitions.

Brian....

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/freedomforvietnam.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/ho-chi-minh-the-man-who-deceived-the-world/amp/

Gordon wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2017 at 9:00pm:

Brian.... https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/freedomforvietnam.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/ho-chi-minh-the-man-who-deceived-the-world/amp/

So?  Another pro-South Vietnamese/anti-North Vietnamese website.   I studied under Carl Thayer, one of the foremost Historians on the Vietnam War, Gordon.  Everybody has their own slant on what happened.   No one was right, no one was wrong.  Ho's side won.  The South lost. It happened in 1975.  A long time ago.  Time to move on.  ::)

Unforgiven wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2017 at 8:30pm:

USA killed millions in Asia and left behind a legacy of death and environmental damage in agent orange and unexploded munitions.

Nobody's perfect.

War is war.......they did their job.

"He who is without sin ..... "

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 7:59am:

"He who is without sin ..... "

Funny, how you don't apply that wisdom to migrants, Herbie, particularly, Muslim migrants.

Typical of you though.  Tsk, tsk.     ::) ::)