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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Environment >> Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1489364083 Message started by The_Barnacle on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:14am

Title: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:14am

The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority today (10 March 2017) confirmed mass coral bleaching is occurring on the Great Barrier Reef for the second consecutive year.

Mass coral bleaching is moderate to severe bleaching over a large spatial scale — the bleaching is part of an ongoing global event affecting the world’s coral reefs since 2014.

On 9 March 2017 experts from the Marine Park Authority spent six hours flying over the Reef between Townsville and Cairns, alongside researchers from the Australian Institute of Marine Science. The first aerial survey of the Reef for 2017 found severe bleaching in offshore reefs from north of Ingham to the northern extent of the survey near Cairns. This year more bleaching is being observed in this central part of the Reef, which last year escaped widespread severe bleaching.

http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/media-room/coral-bleaching

That's a big worry that we've now had 2 years in a row. Coral can generally regenerate after a single bleaching event, but if thy kep happening the coral will die.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:46am

BoM don't seem to be showing anything abnormal for this time of year for sea temperatures. I wonder what caused it?
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/#tabs=Sea-sub%E2%80%93surface

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/#tabs=Sea-surface

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:58am

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:46am:

BoM don't seem to be showing anything abnormal for this time of year for sea temperatures. I wonder what caused it?

BoM is showing that there is a temperature anomoly of +1 degree although the pale pink in the map is hard to see because of the scale.

Try this much more high resolution map

http://www.bom.gov.au/environment/activities/reeftemp/reeftemp.shtml

HINT: try the 14day option as this contains far more data

ssta14dayleg-n-20170307.png (151 KB | 72 )

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 11:25am

This is from the satellites that don't do temperature well, isn't it?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 11:51am

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 11:25am:

This is from the satellites that don't do temperature well, isn't it?

The mass bleaching event confirms the data is accurate.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 1:49pm

Of course the corals should be the sub-surface temperatures, not SST.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Rider on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 2:09pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:14am:

No. Not a big worry at all. Fake news dressed up as alarmism from the heavily discredited BOM.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 3:18pm

Rider wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 2:09pm:

No. Not a big worry at all. Fake news dressed up as alarmism from the heavily discredited BOM.

wrong again Rider
The announcement came from the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority.

Do you have any evidence that it is fake news? Or is that your reflex reaction to any news that is ideologically inconvenient for you.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 3:54pm

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by rabbitoh08 on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 4:38pm

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 1:49pm:

Of course the corals should be the sub-surface temperatures, not SST.

No. The subsurface temperature is at 150m depth.

Not much coral grows at 150m

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 4:38pm:

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 1:49pm:

Of course the corals should be the sub-surface temperatures, not SST.

No. The subsurface temperature is at 150m depth.

Not much coral grows at 150m

You do know sub-surface merely means below the surface? The 150m that BoM refers to is simply the depth at which they measure, to ensure conformity.

Now if wiki is to be believed -

"Sea surface temperature (SST) is the water temperature close to the ocean's surface. The exact meaning of surface varies according to the measurement method used, but it is between 1 millimetre (0.04 in) and 20 metres (70 ft) below the sea surface."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_surface_temperature

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:23am

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 1:49pm:

Of course the corals should be the sub-surface temperatures, not SST.

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

"Sea surface temperature (SST) is the water temperature close to the ocean's surface. The exact meaning of surface varies according to the measurement method used, but it is between 1 millimetre (0.04 in) and 20 metres (70 ft) below the sea surface."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_surface_temperature

Considering that reef building corals grow at around 20 meters depth and above,
http://coral.org/coral-reefs-101/coral-reef-ecology/how-coral-reefs-grow/
lee has actually kicked an own goal.

This is all standard obfuscation by lee.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:32am

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:23am:

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 1:49pm:

Of course the corals should be the sub-surface temperatures, not SST.

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

Oh, dear. I omitted a piece from wiki-

"There are several difficulties with satellite-based absolute SST measurements. First, in infrared remote sensing methodology the radiation emanates from the top "skin" of the ocean, approximately the top 0.01 mm or less, which may not represent the bulk temperature of the upper meter of ocean due primarily to effects of solar surface heating during the daytime, reflected radiation, as well as sensible heat loss and surface evaporation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_surface_temperature

So you see it is a true measure of Sea SURFACE Temperature and shouldn't be used to justify bleaching.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:55am

lee wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:32am:

So you see it is a true measure of Sea SURFACE Temperature and shouldn't be used to justify bleaching.

This is just more evidence that you are a fraud lee.
Do you actually believe the crap that you post? I believe that you are in fact trolling

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 11:35am

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:55am:

lee wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:32am:

So you see it is a true measure of Sea SURFACE Temperature and shouldn't be used to justify bleaching.

This is just more evidence that you are a fraud lee.
Do you actually believe the crap that you post? I believe that you are in fact trolling

You doubt SST means Sea Surface Temperature? ::)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 10:10am

No cyclones on the horizon to relieve the Great Barrier Reef from coral bleaching

THE weather needed to cool down the Great Barrier Reef to prevent further coral bleaching appears to be staying well away from the Far North.

The Bureau of Meteorology says sea temperatures that have caused coral bleaching in several tourism hot spots between Cairns and Townsville are likely to rise in coming days, potentially worsening the natural phenomenon.

It is the second summer in a row the Reef has undergone a mass bleaching event, which could result in large-scale coral dieback.

http://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/no-cyclones-on-the-horizon-to-relieve-the-great-barrier-reef-from-coral-bleaching/news-story/796e3de5ef030d7d08cf8c28f8066d49

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:40am

So how are they determining sea temperatures?

likely, potential, could? They sure sound positive.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Rider on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 5:46pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 10:10am:

No cyclones......but the BOM has said we will have more and more ...... someones been telling fibs. Or fraud.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 9:56am

Rider wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

No cyclones......but the BOM has said we will have more and more ...... someones been telling fibs. Or fraud.

No Rider, once again you are confusing weather with climate.
Global warming will result in more cyclones on average, but that doesn't mean there is going to be one every day

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 11:09am

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

Global warming will result in more cyclones on average, but that doesn't mean there is going to be one every day

Have you got a reference for that?

"Less well understood is how climate change should influence the number of tropical cyclones that form each year. Computer models indicate that while the total number of cyclones should decline in a warming climate, more intense, highly destructive storms like Super Typhoon Nepartak are likely to become more common."

https://phys.org/news/2016-07-tropical-cyclones-track-intense-temperatures.html#jCp

And we know how useful climate models are. :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 11:50am

Rider wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

No cyclones......but the BOM has said we will have more and more ...... someones been telling fibs. Or fraud.

lee wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 11:09am:

Computer models indicate that while the total number of cyclones should decline in a warming climate

Yes Rider is wrong

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 12:30pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

Global warming will result in more cyclones on average,

You are wrong. You claimed more. An average can only increase with an increase in number.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:51am

lee wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:32am:

So you see it is a true measure of Sea SURFACE Temperature and shouldn't be used to justify bleaching.

You are such a hypocrite lee. You were quite happy to accept satellite measurements in post #2 when you thought that it suited you.

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:46am:

So you are happy to use satellite data when it supports your argument, but when it doesn't, it becomes "unreliable"
You are happy to use wikipedia in post #12 but if wiki is used to show you are wrong then it is "unreliable"
You are happy to use data from JoNova and whatsupwiththat but anything from Skeptical Science is "unreliable".

So it is one set of rules for you and a different set of rules for anyone else.
A particularly dishonest form of debating and I really don't know what you are trying to prove. It's not as if Ozpolitics is going to change the world.

I guess you can't debate honestly because if you did you know that you would lose.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:51am:

Enough about me talk about the science. Do you agree SST is sea Surface Temperature and should not be used for sub-sea organisms like corals and importantly the algae?

A simple yes will do. ;)

Also satellite data. It has error bars that you alarmists won't accept. It also has generally 5º gridding. I will let you work out the size of a 5x5 grid.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:47pm

Do you agree the globe is warming now? A simople ‘yes’ will do.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:58pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:47pm:

Do you agree the globe is warming now? A simople ‘yes’ will do.

My side currently is. On the other side it is night and currently cooling.

Has it warmed since 1997 when NOAA said the global temperature was 62.45ºF? Last year they said it was what? 58.69ºF. So according to NOAA it has cooled, despite them claiming hottest evah status.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 5:01pm

Is that a “yes” Lees?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 5:44pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 5:01pm:

Is that a “yes” Lees?

Cognitive dissonance again? According to NOAA 1997 and NOAA 2016 it would have to be a "no". That's what the data says.

Of course if you want to believe in fairy stories they can tell the earth's global temperature to 0.27ºF, even when they merge different datasets with wider error bars. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

The BuMet has reported the land and the seas around Australia have warmed by 1°C, land since 1910.

Scientific instruments can measure Angstroms, fractions of a degree are easy.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:20pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

The BuMet has reported the land and the seas around Australia have warmed by 1°C, land since 1910.

Scientific instruments can measure Angstroms, fractions of a degree are easy.

Accuracy or precision?

You can't just average a dataset and say that the trailing digits mean anything significant. You can't merge differing datasets and get a smaller error than the largest error in the datasets.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:30pm

Clutching at straws again.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:42pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:30pm:

Clutching at straws again.

Seems to be only the case when you don't know what you are talking about. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:46pm

Nope. You are clutching at whatever straw floats by.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am

lee wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:51am:

Enough about me talk about the science.

So you don't dispute that you are a particularly dishonest debater.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am

lee wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

Do you agree SST is sea Surface Temperature and should not be used for sub-sea organisms like corals and importantly the algae?

A simple yes will do. ;)

Also satellite data. It has error bars that you alarmists won't accept. It also has generally 5º gridding. I will let you work out the size of a 5x5 grid.

Once again you are wrong lee

The BOM has specifically developed the ReefTemp Next Generation system to measure the water temperature of the GBR. It has a grid size of 0.02 x 0.02 degrees, uses a "night" system which avoids observations that are affected by daily surface warming caused by solar heating and solar glare effects. It also removes cloud affected data.
http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/bulletins/apob101.pdf

So yes i am confident that the satellite data is providing accurate data and is relevant for coral that is meters below the surface.

The onus is on you lee
I have provided evidence of another mass coral bleaching event. Coral bleaching events are primarily caused by increased sea temperatures. I have provided evidence that the sea temperatures are warmer than normal.

If you don't believe the bleaching event is caused by overheating then the onus is on you to explain what is causing the coral bleaching.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am:

lee wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:51am:

Enough about me talk about the science.

So you don't dispute that you are a particularly dishonest debater.

yes.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

It has a grid size of 0.02 x 0.02 degrees,

Yeah. From "stitching together" multiple passes.

"For each satellite pass, a SST is calculated (this is known as the Level 2 product) which adheres to the Group for High Resolution Sea Surface Temperature (GHRSST) data
processing specifications v2.0 [Paltouglou et al., 2010; Casey et al., 2011]. Then a new level 3 collated (L3C) product
is created from a combination of multiple swaths from a single
sensor. Finally, a super-collated, multi-sensor, multi-swath gridded product (L3S) at 0.02°x 0.02° spatial resolution is produced to give “Night” and “Day” compositions , also called IMOS SST."

Torture the data long enough it will confess. The error bars must be huge.

"RTNG uses the “Night” IMOS SST which is calibrated to the ocean skin temperature, providing an estimate of the ocean temperature to a depth of 10-20μm. "

So it measures the SST to a maximum depth of about 1/50th of a millimeter. And yet you are confident that is a realistic estimation of depths to 20 Metres. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

If you don't believe the bleaching event is caused by overheating then the onus is on you to explain what is causing the coral bleaching.

As explained before coral bleaching can occur due to sudden changes in temperature both up and down. It does not need to be high temperatures.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am

So why were you happy to use the BOM data in post #2 when you thought it suited you? bit of a hypocrite there aren't you lee.

lee wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm:

So it measures the SST to a maximum depth of about 1/50th of a millimeter. And yet you are confident that is a realistic estimation of depths to 20 Metres.

You do realise that the cloud affected data and data affected by solar heating was removed.
You do realise that it is the temperature anomaly which is important.

lee wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

If you don't believe the bleaching event is caused by overheating then the onus is on you to explain what is causing the coral bleaching.

As explained before coral bleaching can occur due to sudden changes in temperature both up and down. It does not need to be high temperatures.

"can occur" "does not need to be" What an absolute cop out.
If you are so sure that high sea temperatures aren't the reason for this mass bleaching event then please tell us what has caused it.
And please, none of your usual vague wishy washy answers. Try and actually make a point for a change ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 4:24pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

So why were you happy to use the BOM data in post #2 when you thought it suited you? bit of a hypocrite there aren't you lee.

So tell me does the SST measure the ocean skin to about 1/50 mm? Does it correlate to water at depths of 20M? You are the one proclaiming the data.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

You do realise that it is the temperature anomaly which is important.

What is the baseline of the anomaly?

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

"can occur" "does not need to be" What an absolute cop out.

That's what the science says. If you have a problem with that author your own paper.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

If you are so sure that high sea temperatures aren't the reason for this mass bleaching event then please tell us what has caused it.

I was going on the data I had at the time. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. :)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

Not just the GBR either;

Quote:

When researchers dove into the South China Sea to find out what one of the strongest El Niño effect on record was doing to the sea’s reefs, they found that nearly two-fifths of the coral had died in just six weeks.

The culprit is believed to be the extreme overheating of the water. At the Dongsha Atoll, roughly halfway between Hong Kong and the Philippines and the site where the coral damage was observed, researchers recorded temperatures 6 degrees Celsius warmer than average for that time of year.

Their findings were published Thursday in Nature’s Scientific Reports journal.

Reefs such as those at Dongsha Atoll constitute one of the most vulnerable ecosystems in the world, according to Thomas DeCarlo, one of the study’s researchers at Massachusetts-based Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

When coral is subjected to unusual temperatures, it expels the algae that live on it, and which give the reefs their vivid colors. This usually turns the coral completely white — a sign it is dying or dead, and a phenomenon often referred to as “coral bleaching.” Even when conditions revert to normal, it takes decades for the coral to recover. “If there are repeated thermal stress events before the time needed for recovery, the coral could continue to decline,” DeCarlo told Sixth Tone.

Researchers found that the mean temperature in the South China Sea was 2 degrees higher during the summer of 2015, when their study was carried out. But at Dongsha, the huge crescent-shaped coral reef experienced an anomalous high-pressure system that created weak winds and smaller waves, conditions that contributed to raising water temperatures by up to an additional 4 degrees.

http://www.sixthtone.com/news/mass-coral-bleaching-due-overly-hot-south-china-sea-waters

And AGW just powers along even tho we get less radiation from the Sun since 1970s.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:13pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

And AGW just powers along even tho we get less radiation from the Sun since 1970s.

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

But at Dongsha, the huge crescent-shaped coral reef experienced an anomalous high-pressure system that created weak winds and smaller waves, conditions that contributed to raising water temperatures by up to an additional 4 degrees.

So now the El Nino and high pressure systems are a symptom of AGW, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:17pm

No, high water temperatures are.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:29pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:17pm:

No, high water temperatures are.

Created by the El Nino and a high pressure system. What a maroon.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:36pm

No, just El Nino.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:24pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:36pm:

No, just El Nino.

Geez. You don't even read your own posts. A complete maroon.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:27pm

No. But it was El Nino raised the ocean temp.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:32pm

lee wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:24pm:

Geez. You don't even read your own posts.

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:27pm:

No.

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:27pm:

But it was El Nino raised the ocean temp.

So not AGW then. Thank you.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 11:09pm

El Nino raises temperatures.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 10:41am

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 11:09pm:

El Nino raises temperatures.

On that we agree.

I assume we also agree El Nino is natural?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 2:44pm

lee wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:29pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:17pm:

No, high water temperatures are.

Created by the El Nino and a high pressure system. What a maroon.

What is a maroon?

But it is interesting that you have once again flipped flopped from your original position that ocean warming didn't cause the coral bleaching. You can't even remain consistent in the one thread.

lee wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 10:32am:

So you see it is a true measure of Sea SURFACE Temperature and shouldn't be used to justify bleaching.

You can't be taken seriously when you are always changing your position to suit yourself. It confirms that you are just a troll wasting our time.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 3:34pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

What is a maroon?

See Bugs Bunny. ;)

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

But it is interesting that you have once again flipped flopped from your original position that ocean warming didn't cause the coral bleaching.

No. What I said was that here was no evidence of ocean warming for the latest coral bleaching. Remember I said coral bleaching can be caused by sudden temperature changes up and down.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 8:32am:
So you see it is a true measure of Sea SURFACE Temperature and shouldn't be used to justify bleaching.

Yes Sea Surface Temperatures, those areas to about 1/50th of a mm. How many corals live at the surface?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 4:54pm

That is correct, Lees.

It can be 40°C on the surface and 10°C a couple of metres below that

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 5:38pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 4:54pm:

That is correct, Lees.

It can be 40°C on the surface and 10°C a couple of metres below that

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D

i can see you have been to the beach and walked in and then hit a cold spot. However where did the ocean the ocean get to 40ºC? ;)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

Never hit no “cold spot” 30°C cooler, loser!

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 6:35pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

Never hit no “cold spot” 30°C cooler, loser!

You haven't hit a spot at 40ºC either.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 6:50pm

Still did not hit a spot 30°C cooler than the surface temp either.

You have no argument, you have no facts. Why bother keeping on posting gibberish?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:01pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 6:50pm:

Still did not hit a spot 30°C cooler than the surface temp either.

You have no argument, you have no facts. Why bother keeping on posting gibberish?

Well if it did not hit 40ºC then the 10ºC you claim to hit would be less than 30ºC.

You are the only one quoting figures. What is the significance of the 10ºC, anyway?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:10pm

Before you started blithering and raving I think the thread was about heat bleaching coral.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:22pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Before you started blithering and raving I think the thread was about heat bleaching coral.

So what is the significance of the 10ºC?

According to the figures temperatures vary between a about a maximum of 30-31.5ºC and a minimum of 23.0 - 23.7ºC for January - March.

https://www.great-barrier-reef.com/great-barrier-reef-weather.html

So only a variation of about 8.5ºC.

You are a blithering 1D10T

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:26pm

You blithered about cold spots. I pointed out they are not that cold.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:41pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:26pm:

You blithered about cold spots. I pointed out they are not that cold.

So you blithered about 30ºC drops. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:47pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 4:54pm:

That is correct, Lees.

It can be 40°C on the surface and 10°C a couple of metres below that

lee wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 5:38pm:

i can see you have been to the beach and walked in and then hit a cold spot. However where did the ocean the ocean get to 40ºC?

It should be clear, even to you, that you were the one introduced temperature drops into the conversation, if you follow the timeline.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:50pm

Nah, trying to get away from heat bleaching corals you came up with weird irrelevant crap.'

Don’t you ever get embarrassed by the crap you post?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 8:22pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 7:50pm:

Nah, trying to get away from heat bleaching corals you came up with weird irrelevant crap.'

So your irrelevant crap doesn't matter? 40ºC down to 10ºC. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 8:24pm

Blah blah blah

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 8:26pm

We know high temperatures bleach coral and can kill it.

How did the temperatures get so high? El Nino on top of AGW.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 8:27pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 8:24pm:

Blah blah blah

Yep that's what you do. I'll leave you to your own little fantasy world.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Mar 27^th, 2017 at 8:31pm

No, you won’t.

Anytime a discussion gets interesting you derail it.

Ajax might get involved but he just posts his little lucky charms aka denier videos/charts and can be ignored.

You get in there and derail discussion.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 12:15pm

A new perspective on GBR coral bleaching.

"It is puzzling why the recent 2017 publication in Nature, Global Warming And Recurrent Mass Bleaching Of Corals by Hughes et al. ignored the most critical factor affecting the 2016 severe bleaching along the northern Great Barrier Reef – the regional fall in sea level amplified by El Niño. Instead Hughes 2017 suggested the extensive bleaching was due to increased water temperatures induced by CO2 warming.

In contrast in Coral Mortality Induced by the 2015–2016 El-Niño in Indonesia: The Effect Of Rapid Sea Level Fall by Ampou 2017, Indonesian biologists had reported that a drop in sea level had bleached the upper 15 cm of the reefs before temperatures had reached NOAA’ Coral Reef Watch’s bleaching thresholds. As discussed by Ampou 2017, the drop in sea level had likely been experienced throughout much of the Coral Triangle including the northern Great Barrier Reef (GBR), and then accelerated during the El Niño. They speculated sea level fall also contributed to the bleaching during the 1998 El Niño. Consistent with the effects of sea level fall, other researchers reported bleaching in the GBR was greatest near the surface then declined rapidly with depth. Indeed if falling sea level was the main diver in 2016’s reef mortalities, and this can be tested, then most catastrophic assertions made by Hughes 2017 would be invalid."

"Although Hughes 2017 suggests the pattern of recurring bleaching is simply a function of temperature and global warming, as illustrated in Hughes’ Figure “e” below, recurring bleaching is not a global phenomenon. (Black dots represent reefs that bleached during all 3 surveys: 1998, 2002, 2016; light gray represents reefs that bleached only once, and dark gray reefs bleached twice.) ."

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/04/05/falling-sea-level-the-critical-factor-in-2016-great-barrier-reef-bleaching/

"Guest essay by Jim Steele

Director emeritus Sierra Nevada Field Campus, San Francisco State University and author of Landscapes & Cycles: An Environmentalist’s Journey to Climate Skepticism"

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 12:41pm

More denier rubbish from denier Lees.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 2:36pm

So you don't agree shallower water is warmer than deeper water? ::)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 2:58pm

“Environmentalist’s Journey to Climate Skepticism”

Like all your crap—denier rubbish.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 3:12pm

lee wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 12:15pm:

The Effect Of Rapid Sea Level Fall by Ampou 2017

So did you find the paper, or did you just decide they were climate shills, because they disagree with the meme? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 4:05pm

It was pretty obviously a propaganda paper.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 4:13pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 4:05pm:

It was pretty obviously a propaganda paper.

You mean like John Cook's 97%? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Published in European Geosciences Union magazine Biogeosciences. Must be a hard core denier site. ;)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 4:27pm

So? Just a crap paper like most you post “all peer reviewed” ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 4:31pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 4:27pm:

So? Just a crap paper like most you post “all peer reviewed” ;D ;D ;D

yes. "Peer reviewed" not "Pal reviewed".

And not from the Garudian either. ;)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 5:27pm

Right, that was “peer reviewed” meaning Monckton had a quick shufti at it???

:D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:07pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

Right, that was “peer reviewed” meaning Monckton had a quick shufti at it???

Apparently not. Doesn't seem like his writing style. Check it out yourself.

http://www.biogeosciences.net/14/817/2017/

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:11pm

Never said Monckton wrote the crap!

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:27pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:11pm:

Never said Monckton wrote the crap!

Neither did I. I was going on the reviewers' notes. ;)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:38pm

Were you? My notes would have said “What a load of cobblers!”

There was a pun buried in all that!

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:54pm

I think anal bleaching is more of a worry than periodic bleaching of the corals.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 9:17pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 8:38pm:

Were you? My notes would have said “What a load of cobblers!”

There was a pun buried in all that!

Yes.We know you only believe the science when it supports the meme. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 9:24pm

No.

Peer review.

Geddit now?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 11:34am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 6^th, 2017 at 9:24pm:

No.

Peer review.

Geddit now?

Yes. you only agree with peer review when it's on the warmists side. ;)

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 11:39am

Oh gawd.

Monckton. Peer. Peer Review. Geddit now?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 12:18pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 11:39am:

Oh gawd.

Monckton. Peer. Peer Review. Geddit now?

Oh, you mean as Monckton is a Peer of the Realm in Britain. Funny. But hardly germane.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 7^th, 2017 at 2:24pm

I just said there was a pun in there.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:34pm

Giant fans to cool water and reduce heat stress on the Great Barrier Reef will be trialled from early next year and partially funded by a $2.2 million Turnbull government investment.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/giant-2-2m-fans-to-cool-great-barrier-reef-20171207-p4yxi5.html

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Grendel on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:44pm

DO YOU THINK THE GREAT BARRIER REEF HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AS IT IS BARNACLE?

:D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:47pm

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:44pm:

DO YOU THING THE GREAT BARRIER REEF HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AS IT IS BARNACLE?

:D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

That's a pretty stupid statement
:D :D :D

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Jovial Monk on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:04pm

Gotta give roach credit for the large font tho, Barnacle!

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:16pm

Quote:

Unless the sender or recipient is vision impaired and requires the larger font size for obvious reasons, anything larger than the standard default font size can be perceived as adding emphasis. ... And if the font is much larger, yes, they may take it that you mean to yell or scream.

Are you vision impaired Grendel?

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Grendel on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:46am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:44pm:

DO YOU THING THE GREAT BARRIER REEF HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AS IT IS BARNACLE?

:D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

That's a pretty stupid statement
:D :D :D

I was trying it in my best Spaniss...

since you seem to have difficulties with English.

So wassup... too hard for you to answer.
Monk do your Chester and Spike act with Barny elsewhere. eh.

Barny and Monk....

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by Grendel on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:50am

So Barny...

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:44pm:

DO YOU THINK THE GREAT BARRIER REEF HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AS IT IS BARNACLE?

:D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

The problem with Greenies is they don't accept the continuous change aspect of nature. The Earth is a dynamic planet it aint frozen in aspic.

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 12:39pm

Grendel wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 6:50am:

So Barny...

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:44pm:

DO YOU THINK THE GREAT BARRIER REEF HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AS IT IS BARNACLE?

:D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

The problem with Greenies is they don't accept the continuous change aspect of nature. The Earth is a dynamic planet it aint frozen in aspic.

No one has ever claimed that the Earth isn't always changing. That is a foolish strawman argument.

If human activities are causing the damage then we also have the power to stop causing the damage. It isn't rocket science. The problem with people like you, lee and the mechanic is that you don't want to take responsibility for your own actions

Title: Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Post by lee on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 1:14pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 12:39pm:

If human activities are causing the damage then we also have the power to stop causing the damage.

Oh IF? ;)