It seems Female Genital Cutting is now thee prefered term over Feale Genital Mutilation.

There are two very good reasons for this.

The first is that FGM doesn't explain the widev ariety of cutting procedures performed on woen and girls.

For edification:


I am pleased to see my colleagues from WHO enter into this fruitful and lively series of discussion on TierneyLab. As they note, there is no shortage of research on the health effects of various forms of female genital cutting. Their commentary, however, illustrates three problems that will not be resolved by any amount of further research on the medical consequences of female genital cutting because they are interpretive rather than empirical issues. These are:

1. Conclusions about the “medical sequelae of FGM” are applied to the monolithic, undifferentiated practice, and do not seriously differentiate the risks posed by widely various forms of FGC that are performed under a diverse set of circumstances.

Yes, researchers who review the enormous literature on health risks posed by female genital cutting try to differentiate the magnitude of risk by type of cutting. The conclusions, however, are all too often applied to the entire range of practices that are classified as “FGM” without differentiating the obvious difference in risk posed by varied forms of the practice. Yes, there are blindingly obvious risks associated with infibulations. But it is also obvious that nicking, a practice that involves no removal of tissue or permanent alteration of the female genitalia, is not more risky than forms of male circumcision or body piercing that are widely (though obviously not uniformly) condoned in Western society.


https://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/cultural-imperialism-at-the-who/

The second reason is expressed most touchingly by a woman who has undergone the procedure.

I implore you ll to consider her words:


Why we should stop using the phrase 'female genital mutilation'

A victim of female circumcision has spoken out against the western description of the traditional procedure, saying the use of the phrase 'female genital mutilation' is culturally insensitive. A young, respected member of the African community in Australia, Khadija Gbla told Waleed Aly that the use of harsh language only serves to alienate survivors of the procedure.



Last week I travelled to Parliament House to help facilitate the National Summit on Female Genital Mutilation.

It was a bipartisan, multi-government event: there were representatives from the government and the opposition as well as state government representatives. The idea was to create a forum for the full range of people, from community organisations to health service providers, to discuss the practice of female genital mutilation, its existence in Australia, and how we can go about eliminating it.

This is not an entirely new debate to people in Australia, but how often do you hear the voices of those who are victims of this process? I would say almost never.

Khadija Gbla is one such victim. She spoke powerfully at the summit, and took a moment to talk to us on RN Drive.

She began by explaining why she has a problem with the term ‘female genital mutilation’.

‘I think it’s quite harsh and it’s very western-centric,’ Ms Gbla told me. ‘In Africa mostly we call it “female circumcision”, which I think goes to show more respect to the victims, while “female genital mutilation” just conjures up horrible pictures in people’s minds... It doesn’t go to support or help our mental health.’ In brief, she objects to being described repeatedly as someone who is mutilated.

Ms Gbla is a former Young South Australian of the Year and has also been named the Young African Australian of the Year. Her story begins in a refugee camp in Gambia, where she and her mother fled to escape war in Sierra Leone. One day when she was nine years old her mother told her they were going to visit a family member in a nearby town.

‘[A]nd before I knew it I was being held down by my mum, and this old lady with some blunt knife that looked rusted was coming towards me,’ she said. ‘[T]his lady started cutting inch-by-inch-by-inch something very precious, which at the time I took for granted because I didn’t know what was happening.’

Although the experience was painful, in Gambia what had happened to her was considered normal and positive—a ‘natural process of life’ that was a rite of passage into womanhood.

‘It was celebrated. And we were told something beautiful had happened to us. We had come of age, you know? A woman shouldn’t have a clitoris; it’s stinky, it is smelly, it gets in the way of things, it’s going to make you want to jump every man you see, you’re not going to be able to stay as a virgin until you get married.’

Then she migrated to Australia and that soon changed. The pages of Dolly and Girlfriend magazines became her tormentors with the numerous articles she read that focused positively on the clitoris. Western culture made her feel like she wasn’t a real woman, that she was ‘incomplete’.

‘I felt like the western culture was treating me like some complete freak of nature and almost putting the blame on women like us for what had happened, when I had no choice in the matter—no consent was given for what happened to me,’ she said.

Suddenly the trauma of her FGM had become much sharper, and her anger began to affect her interaction with her family and her community. Although she doesn’t blame her mother, the incident has troubled their relationship.

‘I said to her, on the one hand I forgive her because she was ignorant of what she was doing; on the other hand, this stops at my generation,’ Ms Gbla said. ‘Whether she likes it or not, I am not going to continue the practice and have become very outspoken about the issue since I was 13.’

Now, Ms Gbla is trying to build solidarity and belonging amongst young women who have suffered FGM by running a local women’s group. She faces some community opposition, including occasionally from her mother, but her cause is too important to her to let that stop her.

‘[W]hat we the girls do is talk about being circumcised, talk about a world with no clitoris, and talk about how if we had a white man, he really won’t have to struggle to look for a clitoris, because there isn’t one,’ she joked.  It’s amazing that she can laugh at this, but there’s no mistaking how seriously she takes the issue.

The aim of last week’s summit—which I was lucky enough to be able to observe and help facilitate a session—was to try to figure out a way that this practice can be eradicated from Australia, and then beyond that, the world. In the Australian context, we don’t know how widespread FGM is. It might be fairly small, but we know it exists. However, one of Ms Gbla’s most powerful points is that denouncing the communities where this is practice is unlikely to help; in fact, it will probably cause FGM to go even further underground.

‘We have to remember we shouldn’t come from a moral high ground, thinking that we’re better than them or we don’t have our own skeletons in our closet of things that we do in our culture, in the western setting, that some cultures would consider barbaric, just like we th

‘We have to remember we shouldn’t come from a moral high ground, thinking that we’re better than them or we don’t have our own skeletons in our closet of things that we do in our culture, in the western setting, that some cultures would consider barbaric, just like we think female circumcision is barbaric,’ Ms Gbla said.

She says the important thing is to give ownership of the issue to the communities where FGM is still prevalent, and to convince people to take a stand and move their cultures forward.

‘We [the FGM community] thought we were doing it out of love, but now we need to love them [women] enough not to harm them in this way,’ she says. ‘We need to love them enough not to have them have stomach pains for the rest of their life, not be able to have babies, have infections constantly. We need to love them enough not to want to hurt them.’

There is a long road ahead though, and while reform figures like Ms Gbla are optimistic about change, there’s also the risk that the wrong approach could see a stubborn underground continue to practise FGM for some time. If the perpetrators of FGM are constantly described as barbaric and are condemned, they are likely to close ranks.

‘I don’t think that you solve any problem by being judgemental,’ Ms Gbla says. ‘What you do is come from a place of understanding and humbleness... It’s about them, and we need to empower them to change.’

‘This is not about us telling them how they should change or how we’re better than them. It has to be a respectful conversation and that’s the only way we can save girls from having this horrific experience that I had.’


http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/drive/female-circumcision-debate/4630478

To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION.

Gordon wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:05am:

To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION.

Why would you leect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively?

Clearly you missed the part where siple cutting, ie: not mutilation, is excluded from the term FGM yet still is profoundly unsafe?

Why would you exclude these women?

Where is the moral outrage?

Warning: internal conflict disabling critical judgement function!

This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue.

Here's my solution for western countries.

All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years.

Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole.

Gordon wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:43am:

This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole.

Nope. Regressive right.

Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology.

You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest,

You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas.

Never mind what you call "the twisted agendas".

If freedom lovers didn't raise these issues people like you would hide them away in the closet and hang a sign on it "Safety Warning: do not look at contents"

bogarde73 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:02pm:

Never mind what you call "the twisted agendas". If freedom lovers didn't raise these issues people like you would hide them away in the closet and hang a sign on it "Safety Warning: do not look at contents"

Yet not only have i been an active campaigner against FGC for over 2 decades, i have started 2 threads on it on here.

You're ridiculous.


You use these girls and women to push your hatred. You're disgusting.

mothra wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:49am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:43am: This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole. Nope. Regressive right. Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology. You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest, You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas.

Mothra, why do you place the cultural sensitivities of those involved above ending the practice?

Additional to the above, parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country.

That would provide a disincentive to the practice.

Gordon wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:12pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:49am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:43am: This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole. Nope. Regressive right. Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology. You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest, You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas. Mothra, why do you place the cultural sensitivities of those involved above ending the practice? Additional to the above, parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country. That would provide a disincentive to the practice.

A:  Where the hell did you pull that from? Just because you are not on the side of the girls and women, don;t assume i am not. What a load of bullshit.

B: Why should they be precluded from coming to Australia? Don't you want them to learn best practices and avail their daughters of the best medical care?

mothra wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:12pm: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:49am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:43am: This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole. Nope. Regressive right. Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology. You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest, You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas. Mothra, why do you place the cultural sensitivities of those involved above ending the practice? Additional to the above, parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country. That would provide a disincentive to the practice. B: Why should they be precluded from coming to Australia? Don't you want them to learn best practices and avail their daughters of the best medical care?

It would become common knowledge that if you cut your children there is no chance of a visa to a western country.

Carrot and stick

Gordon wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:15pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:12pm: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:49am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:43am: This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole. Nope. Regressive right. Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology. You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest, You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas. Mothra, why do you place the cultural sensitivities of those involved above ending the practice? Additional to the above, parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country. That would provide a disincentive to the practice. B: Why should they be precluded from coming to Australia? Don't you want them to learn best practices and avail their daughters of the best medical care? It would become common knowledge that if you cut your children there is no chance of a visa to a western country. Carrot and stick

God you think simply.

mothra wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:32pm:

Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:18pm: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:15pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:12pm: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:49am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:43am: This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole. Nope. Regressive right. Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology. You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest, You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas. Mothra, why do you place the cultural sensitivities of those involved above ending the practice? Additional to the above, parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country. That would provide a disincentive to the practice. B: Why should they be precluded from coming to Australia? Don't you want them to learn best practices and avail their daughters of the best medical care? It would become common knowledge that if you cut your children there is no chance of a visa to a western country. Carrot and stick God you think simply.

You'd prioritise immigration for families with girls who've had FGM thus providing a perverse incentive for it 

Typical morally confused regressive left

Gordon wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:32pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:18pm: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:15pm: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:12pm: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:49am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:43am: This is just typical of the regressive left. Expend all the effort dancing around the language of something while failing to address the actual issue. Here's my solution for western countries. All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years. Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole. Nope. Regressive right. Won;t even call it FGC when it's abundantly clear that is the more sensitive, incorperative and applicable terminology. You don;t care about the women and the girls at all. Not in the slightest, You just use this appalling act to push your own twisted agendas. Mothra, why do you place the cultural sensitivities of those involved above ending the practice? Additional to the above, parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country. That would provide a disincentive to the practice. B: Why should they be precluded from coming to Australia? Don't you want them to learn best practices and avail their daughters of the best medical care? It would become common knowledge that if you cut your children there is no chance of a visa to a western country. Carrot and stick God you think simply. You'd prioritise immigration for families with girls who've had FGM thus providing a perverse incentive for it  Typical morally confused regressive left

Where exactly did i say i would prioritise them?

Are you that desperate for arguments that you need to make them up? Or are you really this thick?

Why do we use the term female genital cutting and not female genital mutilation?

We are often asked why we use the term female genital cutting and not female genital mutilation. This blog, posted by our partner Tostan in February 2015, explains why:
FGC? FGM? Female circumcision? Why language matters in helping communities abandon harmful practices

This Friday, February 6, marks the United Nations (UN) International Day for the Abandonment of Female Genital Cutting (FGC). It’s a day to celebrate communities around the world that have decided to abandon this harmful practice, educate people about the work that still needs to be done, and engage partners globally to see millions of women and girls free from FGC.

Tostan has been deeply committed to enabling communities across West Africa to make positive social changes like abandoning FGC. We are frequently asked why we choose to use the term, “female genital cutting” instead of the more widely used, “female genital mutilation.” As we look forward to many conversations this Friday about FGC, we wanted to clarify our use of this language up front so that it doesn’t distract from the bigger picture: working together to end a harmful practice that damages millions of girls and women worldwide.

The terminology around this issue can be challenging. Three separate terms have been widely used to describe the practice: female circumcision, female genital mutilation, and female genital cutting. We avoid the term “circumcision,” as we believe it incorrectly implies a parallel between FGC and male circumcision.  But the fact is, all of these terms have their limitations and fall short of accurately describing this practice—which has four major (and infinite minor) variations in practice around the world. No one term is truly “accurate.”

But we must use words, and so among these options, Tostan has for over 13 years chosen the term female genital cutting based on what communities that are giving up the practice have told us: the term “cutting” allows them to accomplish more than the others because it is less judgmental and value-laden. As a result, the term is more effective for engaging groups in dialog around this practice, and eventually bringing about its end.

We want to be very, very clear about one thing: we do not use this term in an attempt to excuse or diminish the impact of the practice. Anyone who has taken the time to learn about Tostan and watched the testimonies given by Tostan’s local partners—Marietou Diarra, for example— knows that we are in no way hiding or excusing the real, significant consequences of this practice. Yet despite its serious health consequences, we have found that FGC itself is not done with vicious intent to “mutilate” a girl. Rather, parents who have their daughters cut want the best for them, and the practice is seen as a necessary step to enable her to be a fully accepted member of the community.

It seems counter-intuitive, but in our experience, if there is a dominant emotion involved in FGC, it is love—because not cutting your daughter risks her entire future. As explained by a former cutter-turned-Tostan advocate, Oureye Sall, in communities where FGC is practiced, an uncut girl is ostracized. Community members will not eat food cooked by a woman who is not cut, will not accept water from her, will not even sit with her. She will have difficulty getting married. An uncut woman is viewed as unclean and therefore unable to participate fully in the community.

With these social pressures, if a family chooses not to cut their daughter, they have risked severely damaging her social status. To imply that parents are actually “mutilating” their daughters through a decision made with love and concern for her well-being is unfair to them and risks alienating and offending them rather than convincing them to abandon the practice.

In addition, we have found that many communities do not fully understand the consequences of the practice—the effects of which are not always immediate or obvious, especially in cases of infections, tetanus, etc. Without an understanding of concepts such as germ theory, recognizing the true long-term health implications of FGC is difficult. When communities do get access to this information, presented in a manner that is trustworthy and non-combative, they come to understand the harm the practice causes and will decide on their own to stop—but if the person bringing these messages begins with judgmental terms, the chance of reaching this breakthrough disappears.

We should remember that all of us, no matter where we are from, tend to greet judgmental outsiders in similar ways. When our beliefs and actions are challenged or condemned by a stranger, we are likely to become defensive; rather than taking their concerns to heart, we view their accusation as an unwarranted and uninformed attack on our character. We certainly won’t feel inclined to change in order to satisfy this judgmental critic; we may even respond by holding on more tightly to the belief or action being questioned. Our experience has shown us that it is dialog and discussion that leads to change, and dialog requires a relationship of trust and respect. But calling the practice “mutilation” prevents this relationship from developing and invites defensiveness rather than productive discourse. And, if we take the example of Oureye Sall—who transformed her experience as a former cutter into a source of leadership against FGC—it becomes clear that we must avoid demonizing those who perform the practice. Oureye is not a “mutilator” and villain; she is a hero driven by her new knowledge. When she had cut girls, she did so because the experience and knowledge available to her told her it was right to do so. When she decided to stop and to become a champion of the movement to abandon FGC, it was because new experiences and new knowledge showed her that the practice was harmful and that change was necessary.

Tostan’s experience has shown this to be the case for almost all cutters; they are not evil, they do not seek to “mutilate” girls or bring them harm, but rather they are acting based on what they believe is right.

Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose.

Some prefer to call themselves mutilated, others simply “cut,” many others say less, or nothing, as they are not yet comfortable being public about this very private matter.

We believe women should be free to choose the term that best defines them, and that the term “mutilated” should not be forced upon them.

In short, our use of the term “FGC” is not apology, nor is it political correctness. It is simple practicality: this way of speaking opens doors to dialog that have led to thousands of communities standing up to abandon this practice, doors that more accusatory language would keep shut.

We choose to use language that has proven to be effective, that community leaders and evaluation data alike are telling us brings real, concrete change. In keeping with the above approach, we are not posting this in any effort to pick a fight with others who choose to use different language. We respect the many differences of opinion on this truly complex subject and the language that accompanies it.

We do encourage others to study our experiences, both in relation to FGC and the many, many other areas on which our program works. We hope to continue supporting community-led work in the field to ensure all girls—cut and uncut—have human dignity. These actions are our main focus, and we believe they speak much louder than words. -

See more at: https://orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-female-genital-mutilation/#sthash.EQQle3C4.dpuf


https://orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-female-genital-mutilation/

FGC, not FGM

i.e.
Please DO use the term; Female Genital 'Cutting',

....rather than the term; Female Genital Mutilation.



Moslems, posing as leftist 'progressives', now seek to introduce mainstream media terms which would tend to disguise the full extent of the barbarity of ISLAMIC inspired moslem violence.


e.g.
Beheading infidels.

"Pre-whole-body-transplant procedure."



Another one;

Murdering an intimate member of your family, who challenges the authority of ISLAM over their life ?

"Honour killing."



Another one;

Randonly stabbing police officers in public places.

"Educating pigs to respect moslems."





.




ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





Google;
islam, unbelief is worse than killing





THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." - DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Abu liked to push this nonsense also. Apparently Islam promotes the "good" version of female genital mutilation, which he was very keen to distance from the "bad" version that pagans practice. I am yet to encounter an anti FGM feminist who thinks the distinction matters. I guess it is a bit like the difference between getting your hand cut off at the elbow or wrist.

No surprise that mothra has swallowed this spin hook line and sinker. I'm surprised he is not standing up for the poor oppressed neonazis.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:09am:

Abu liked to push this nonsense also. Apparently Islam promotes the "good" version of female genital mutilation, which he was very keen to distance from the "bad" version that pagans practice. I am yet to encounter an anti FGM feminist who thinks the distinction matters. I guess it is a bit like the difference between getting your hand cut off at the elbow or wrist. No surprise that mothra has swallowed this spin hook line and sinker. I'm surprised he is not standing up for the poor oppressed neonazis.

Ridiculous.


"Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose."

Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims.

mothra wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 10:58am:

It seems Female Genital Cutting is now thee prefered term over Feale Genital Mutilation.

Muslims and their apologists like to use political correctness to downplay female genital mutilation, their moral bankruptcy has to be seen to be believed.

Why don't you call it a ritual nick or has that already been tried, at least Pru Goward toldthem to bugger off when they tried that nonsense.
abc.net.au/news/2010-05-28/doctors-consider-less-severe-female-circumcision/844726

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:15am:

Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims.

That's not even remotely relative.

Would you like to try again?

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:18am:

mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 10:58am: It seems Female Genital Cutting is now thee prefered term over Feale Genital Mutilation. Muslims and their apologists like to use political correctness to downplay female genital mutilation, their moral bankruptcy has to be seen to be believed. Why don't you call it a ritual nick or has that already been tried, at least Pru Goward toldthem to bugger off when they tried that nonsense. abc.net.au/news/2010-05-28/doctors-consider-less-severe-female-circumcision/844726

No you muppet. FGC incorporates the women who are simply cut (which can have life long problems) with the women who are ore horrendously disfigured.

It is, after all, about the women and not your outrage.

"The conclusions, however, are all too often applied to the entire range of practices that are classified as “FGM” without differentiating the obvious difference in risk posed by varied forms of the practice. Yes, there are blindingly obvious risks associated with infibulations. But it is also obvious that nicking, a practice that involves no removal of tissue or permanent alteration of the female genitalia, is not more risky than forms of male circumcision or body piercing that are widely (though obviously not uniformly) condoned in Western society."

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:19am:

freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:15am: Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims. That's not even remotely relative. Would you like to try again?

Did I say rape? Sorry. I meant mutilating the genitals of little girls, which is completely different. We should stop trying to prevent Muslims doing this, in case the women who are already victims feel stigmatised. We must stamp out cultural imperialism so that Muslims can continue mutilating girls for another 1400 years.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:29am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:19am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:15am: Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims. That's not even remotely relative. Would you like to try again? Did I say rape? Sorry. I meant mutilating the genitals of little girls, which is completely different. We should stop trying to prevent Muslims doing this, in case the women who are already victims feel stigmatised. We must stamp out cultural imperialism so that Muslims can continue mutilating girls for another 1400 years.

No FD. The people that are fighting this and gaining successes n the ground use the term FGC. They are getting cutters to abandon their tools. THy find the term "mutilating" has an adverse effect on getting people to change their minds.

Can you think why? Do try.

Dd you actually read the articles i posted? I think not. The answers are in there.

And why the need to single out Muslims? Did you know Christians and Aniists perform FGC also? Or are you not worried about them.

Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices.

You are evidencing that strongly.

"She began by explaining why she has a problem with the term ‘female genital mutilation’.

‘I think it’s quite harsh and it’s very western-centric,’ Ms Gbla told me. ‘In Africa mostly we call it “female circumcision”, which I think goes to show more respect to the victims, while “female genital mutilation” just conjures up horrible pictures in people’s minds... It doesn’t go to support or help our mental health.’ In brief, she objects to being described repeatedly as someone who is mutilated."

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:22am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:18am: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 10:58am: It seems Female Genital Cutting is now thee prefered term over Feale Genital Mutilation. Muslims and their apologists like to use political correctness to downplay female genital mutilation, their moral bankruptcy has to be seen to be believed. Why don't you call it a ritual nick or has that already been tried, at least Pru Goward toldthem to bugger off when they tried that nonsense. abc.net.au/news/2010-05-28/doctors-consider-less-severe-female-circumcision/844726 No you muppet. FGC incorporates the women who are simply cut (which can have life long problems) with the women who are ore horrendously disfigured. It is, after all, about the women and not your outrage.

This is what you're defending,there is no cure for your stupidity.


Quote:

Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits. The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid.I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision. Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused,which is annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse. Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain. Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a knid of inflammation. Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire. ( a muslim man can have 4 wives) For us in the muslim world,female circumcision is,above all else obedience to Islam. And Allah knows best. islamqa.info/en/45528

An Islamic source tells you why female genital mutilation is done and morally bankrupt retards defend this religion.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:29am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:19am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:15am: Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims. That's not even remotely relative. Would you like to try again? Did I say rape? Sorry. I meant mutilating the genitals of little girls, which is completely different. We should stop trying to prevent Muslims doing this, in case the women who are already victims feel stigmatised. We must stamp out cultural imperialism so that Muslims can continue mutilating girls for another 1400 years.

Here's a solution I proposed yeserday which Mothra thinks it too culturally insensitive.

[list bull-blackball]

All children deemed at risk of being subjected to FGM to have yearly examinations by a paediatrician. Failure by parents to comply would result in both parents being jailed for 10 years.

[list bull-blackball]

Any child found to have undergone FGM in Australia or overseas, both parents jailed for life no prospect of parole.


[list bull-blackball]

Parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:35am:

Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices.

FD? Noooo. You can't be serious.  :o :o :o :o

His only concern is for the women  ::) ::) ::)

Wher have i defended it Baron? I a simply listening to the women and to the people who are gaining successes.

I evidently a strong opponent of the practice.

Stop making a fool of yourself and read the articles i've posted.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:29am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:19am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:15am: Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims. That's not even remotely relative. Would you like to try again? Did I say rape? Sorry. I meant mutilating the genitals of little girls, which is completely different. We should stop trying to prevent Muslims doing this, in case the women who are already victims feel stigmatised. We must stamp out cultural imperialism so that Muslims can continue mutilating girls for another 1400 years. No FD. The people that are fighting this and gaining successes n the ground use the term FGC. They are getting cutters to abandon their tools. THy find the term "mutilating" has an adverse effect on getting people to change their minds. Can you think why? Do try. Dd you actually read the articles i posted? I think not. The answers are in there. And why the need to single out Muslims? Did you know Christians and Aniists perform FGC also? Or are you not worried about them. Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices. You are evidencing that strongly.

I think you will believe anything Mothra.

mothra wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:09am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:05am: To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively?

You didn't answer this question, Gordy.

Care to give it a stab?

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:49am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:35am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:29am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:19am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:15am: Good point mothra. We should also stop trying to prevent Muslims raping people in case we stigmatise rape victims. That's not even remotely relative. Would you like to try again? Did I say rape? Sorry. I meant mutilating the genitals of little girls, which is completely different. We should stop trying to prevent Muslims doing this, in case the women who are already victims feel stigmatised. We must stamp out cultural imperialism so that Muslims can continue mutilating girls for another 1400 years. No FD. The people that are fighting this and gaining successes n the ground use the term FGC. They are getting cutters to abandon their tools. THy find the term "mutilating" has an adverse effect on getting people to change their minds. Can you think why? Do try. Dd you actually read the articles i posted? I think not. The answers are in there. And why the need to single out Muslims? Did you know Christians and Aniists perform FGC also? Or are you not worried about them. Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices. You are evidencing that strongly. I think you will believe anything Mothra.

Scintillating comeback.

Best you've got?

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:46am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:22am: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:18am: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 10:58am: It seems Female Genital Cutting is now thee prefered term over Feale Genital Mutilation. Muslims and their apologists like to use political correctness to downplay female genital mutilation, their moral bankruptcy has to be seen to be believed. Why don't you call it a ritual nick or has that already been tried, at least Pru Goward toldthem to bugger off when they tried that nonsense. abc.net.au/news/2010-05-28/doctors-consider-less-severe-female-circumcision/844726 No you muppet. FGC incorporates the women who are simply cut (which can have life long problems) with the women who are ore horrendously disfigured. It is, after all, about the women and not your outrage. This is what you're defending,there is no cure for your stupidity. Quote: Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits. The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid.I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision. Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused,which is annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse. Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain. Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a knid of inflammation. Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire. ( a muslim man can have 4 wives) For us in the muslim world,female circumcision is,above all else obedience to Islam. And Allah knows best. islamqa.info/en/45528 An Islamic source tells you why female genital mutilation is done and morally bankrupt retards defend this religion.

Call it what it is, it's female genital mutilation don't support the bearded nutjobs who preach Islam by downplaying it.

Do you think we would have more luck fighting rape and sex slavery if we came up with a less offensive sounding word? I'm sure you can find evidence for this on the internet.

John Smith wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:48am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:35am: Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices. FD? Noooo. You can't be serious.  :o :o :o :o His only concern is for the women  ::) ::) ::)

It's disgusting how men like FD, Baron and Gordy continue to abuse these women to eed their Islamophobia.

No attr how any ties i've stipulated that FGC isn't a Muslim only practice it's still "Muslim this" and "Muslim that".


It's beneath contempt.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:52am:

Do you think we would have more luck fighting rape and sex slavery if we came up with a less offensive sounding word? I'm sure you can find evidence for this on the internet.

Those words don't stigmatize the survivors.

THe survivors are not asking you not to use those words.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:49am:

mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:09am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:05am: To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? You didn't answer this question, Gordy. Care to give it a stab?

Actually, I'd let them use whatever terminology makes them comfortable when on a one to one basis, but the global description would remain FGM.

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:55am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:49am: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:09am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:05am: To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? You didn't answer this question, Gordy. Care to give it a stab? Actually, I'd let them use whatever terminology makes them comfortable when on a one to one basis, but the global description would remain FGM.

Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively?

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:52am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:48am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:35am: Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices. FD? Noooo. You can't be serious.  :o :o :o :o His only concern is for the women  ::) ::) ::) It's disgusting how men like FD, Baron and Gordy continue to abuse these women to eed their Islamophobia. No attr how any ties i've stipulated that FGC isn't a Muslim only practice it's still "Muslim this" and "Muslim that". It's beneath contempt.

Show me one single post where I've linked FGM exclusively to Islam or apologise.

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:58am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:52am: John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:48am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:35am: Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices. FD? Noooo. You can't be serious.  :o :o :o :o His only concern is for the women  ::) ::) ::) It's disgusting how men like FD, Baron and Gordy continue to abuse these women to eed their Islamophobia. No attr how any ties i've stipulated that FGC isn't a Muslim only practice it's still "Muslim this" and "Muslim that". It's beneath contempt. Show me one single post where I've linked FGM exclusively to Islam or apologise.

I'm not trawling through hundreds of threads in which you have evidenced your Islamophobia to feed your ego.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:55am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:49am: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:09am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:05am: To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? You didn't answer this question, Gordy. Care to give it a stab? Actually, I'd let them use whatever terminology makes them comfortable when on a one to one basis, but the global description would remain FGM. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively?

Because I'm a kind sensitive guy.

Why don't you agree that girls deemed high risk of FGM shoudn't have yearly check ups? Why do you want to put them at risk?

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:00am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:56am: Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:55am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:49am: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:09am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:05am: To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? You didn't answer this question, Gordy. Care to give it a stab? Actually, I'd let them use whatever terminology makes them comfortable when on a one to one basis, but the global description would remain FGM. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? Because I'm a kind sensitive guy. Why don't you agree that girls deemed high risk of FGM shoudn't have yearly check ups? Why do you want to put them at risk?

The why not be sensitive on a global scale?

People at the coal face find the term FGM offensive.

Why not apply your sensitivity to them?

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:59am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:58am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:52am: John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:48am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:35am: Seems to me you are a classic example of a man who doesn't really care about the women and the girls, just wants to use the issue to proote your own prejudices. FD? Noooo. You can't be serious.  :o :o :o :o His only concern is for the women  ::) ::) ::) It's disgusting how men like FD, Baron and Gordy continue to abuse these women to eed their Islamophobia. No attr how any ties i've stipulated that FGC isn't a Muslim only practice it's still "Muslim this" and "Muslim that". It's beneath contempt. Show me one single post where I've linked FGM exclusively to Islam or apologise. I'm not trawling through hundreds of threads in which you have evidenced your Islamophobia to feed your ego.

So you just made it up. Cool.

Why we should stop using the phrase 'female genital mutilation'

A victim of female circumcision has spoken out against the western description of the traditional procedure, saying the use of the phrase 'female genital mutilation' is culturally insensitive. A young, respected member of the African community in Australia, Khadija Gbla told Waleed Aly that the use of harsh language only serves to alienate survivors of the procedure.


the word VICTIM tells me what it is... >:(


cutting   of the human body without their consent.. is MUTILATION...


in some cultures cutting great scars all over ones body is all part of their culture..

would we accept that in AUstralia because they happen to be of a different colour????????>..

some how I dont think so....

what about the women who have the rings placed around their necks..they start at age 2. ::) ::)

its mutilation in our world....


what people do in their own country is up to them


when they come to this country then they have to accept our culture and our rules...

to bad if they are offended..

I am offended by the very nature of this barbaric process..now they are searching for health reasons.. ::) ::)

yeah right?...

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:02am:

Why we should stop using the phrase 'female genital mutilation' A victim of female circumcision has spoken out against the western description of the traditional procedure, saying the use of the phrase 'female genital mutilation' is culturally insensitive. A young, respected member of the African community in Australia, Khadija Gbla told Waleed Aly that the use of harsh language only serves to alienate survivors of the procedure. the word VICTIM tells me what it is... >:( cutting   of the human body without their consent.. is MUTILATION... in some cultures cutting great scars all over ones body is all part of their culture.. would we accept that in AUstralia because they happen to be of a different colour????????>.. some how I dont think so.... what about the women who have the rings placed around their necks..they start at age 2. ::) ::) its mutilation in our world.... what people do in their own country is up to them when they come to this country then they have to accept our culture and our rules... to bad if they are offended.. I am offended by the very nature of this barbaric process..now they are searching for health reasons.. ::) ::) yeah right?...

If someone cut their daughters nose off, would they be prosecuted?

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:02am:

Why we should stop using the phrase 'female genital mutilation' A victim of female circumcision has spoken out against the western description of the traditional procedure, saying the use of the phrase 'female genital mutilation' is culturally insensitive. A young, respected member of the African community in Australia, Khadija Gbla told Waleed Aly that the use of harsh language only serves to alienate survivors of the procedure. the word VICTIM tells me what it is... >:( cutting   of the human body without their consent.. is MUTILATION... in some cultures cutting great scars all over ones body is all part of their culture.. would we accept that in AUstralia because they happen to be of a different colour????????>.. some how I dont think so.... what about the women who have the rings placed around their necks..they start at age 2. ::) ::) its mutilation in our world.... what people do in their own country is up to them when they come to this country then they have to accept our culture and our rules... to bad if they are offended.. I am offended by the very nature of this barbaric process..now they are searching for health reasons.. ::) ::) yeah right?...

Cods:

"Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose."

gordon and mothra between you you ruin so many threads.. never fails..

agree to disagree...because this nonsense takes over every thread the two of you get into!!!

now good old islamphobia has raised its ugly head...AGAIN



grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:04am:

If someone but their daughters nose off, would they be prosecuted?

who suggested that they not be prosecuted? ::) ::)

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:02am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:00am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:56am: Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:55am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:49am: mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:09am: Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:05am: To be sensitive to women who've undergone the procedure, I'd be happy to refer to them as having undergone cutting, but the legal term for the procedure  and the people who perform or encourage it should remain as  FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? You didn't answer this question, Gordy. Care to give it a stab? Actually, I'd let them use whatever terminology makes them comfortable when on a one to one basis, but the global description would remain FGM. Why would you elect to be "sensitive" to the women individually but not collectively? Because I'm a kind sensitive guy. Why don't you agree that girls deemed high risk of FGM shoudn't have yearly check ups? Why do you want to put them at risk? The why not be sensitive on a global scale? People at the coal face find the term FGM offensive. Why not apply your sensitivity to them?

Gordy?

Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:05am:

gordon and mothra between you you ruin so many threads.. never fails.. agree to disagree...because this nonsense takes over every thread the two of you get into!!! now good old islamphobia has raised its ugly head...AGAIN grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Well Cods, I've actually never linked FGM exclusively to Islam as I understand it's a regional and cultural issue.

Scanning the list of countries that practice FGM the majority would be Muslims, and I've also linked where Imams have endorsed FGM, Indonesian I believe but I don't use FGM as a Muslim bashing tool, that's all in Mothra's deluded mind and she owes me an apology for lying about it.

John Smith wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:05am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:04am: If someone but their daughters nose off, would they be prosecuted? who suggested that they not be prosecuted? ::) ::)

The prosecution rate in western countries is evidence it's not vigorously perused legally.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:04am:

cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:02am: Why we should stop using the phrase 'female genital mutilation' A victim of female circumcision has spoken out against the western description of the traditional procedure, saying the use of the phrase 'female genital mutilation' is culturally insensitive. A young, respected member of the African community in Australia, Khadija Gbla told Waleed Aly that the use of harsh language only serves to alienate survivors of the procedure. the word VICTIM tells me what it is... >:( cutting   of the human body without their consent.. is MUTILATION... in some cultures cutting great scars all over ones body is all part of their culture.. would we accept that in AUstralia because they happen to be of a different colour????????>.. some how I dont think so.... what about the women who have the rings placed around their necks..they start at age 2. ::) ::) its mutilation in our world.... what people do in their own country is up to them when they come to this country then they have to accept our culture and our rules... to bad if they are offended.. I am offended by the very nature of this barbaric process..now they are searching for health reasons.. ::) ::) yeah right?... Cods: "Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose."

mothra can you point out where anyone has done that??????

can you also explain.. what the tell tale marks are that tells us they have been circumcised???... ::) ::)

I am extremely aware that I have never once looked at an african women and suspected that... >:( >:( >:( >:(


maybe I am living on a different planet....

but it bothers me that anyone can make an issue out of a 'word'... like cutting or  mutilation.....

it is what it is... an invasion of someones body without their consent....

now you are claiming we demonise these women...bnecause of something that happened in their childhood..


I am sorry mothra.....I cant believe you are even serious about this.....


why do I get the impression you go out of your way to demonise this country and the people that live here..

why should we PRETEND

you admit its awful practice...

do you think calling it a different name will make these women feel better about what was done to them???


do you really think that???..

stimatise...

when have we ever done that????????..

its the people that do it..to others that are responsible not the victim....

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:13am:

Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."

No.

And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice.

See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?

This is just bloody sick.

Female genital cutting common in Indonesia, offered as part of child delivery by birth clinics

Performed on babies

The 2001-2002 study showed that 85.2% of FGMs was performed before girls reach the age of nine. The 2013 survey showed the age to be going down: 96.7% of FGMs were performed before the age of five years. Of that, 82.8% were performed on babies between the ages 0 and 11 months.

Indonesia tried to ban the practice in 2006. But religious clerics reacted by releasing an edict declaring that it was part of a religious practice. In 2010, the Indonesian Health Ministry released a regulation that allowed medical personnel to perform female genital cutting on young girls.

https://theconversation.com/female-genital-cutting-common-in-indonesia-offered-as-part-of-child-delivery-by-birth-clinics-54379

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:14am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:04am: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:02am: Why we should stop using the phrase 'female genital mutilation' A victim of female circumcision has spoken out against the western description of the traditional procedure, saying the use of the phrase 'female genital mutilation' is culturally insensitive. A young, respected member of the African community in Australia, Khadija Gbla told Waleed Aly that the use of harsh language only serves to alienate survivors of the procedure. the word VICTIM tells me what it is... >:( cutting   of the human body without their consent.. is MUTILATION... in some cultures cutting great scars all over ones body is all part of their culture.. would we accept that in AUstralia because they happen to be of a different colour????????>.. some how I dont think so.... what about the women who have the rings placed around their necks..they start at age 2. ::) ::) its mutilation in our world.... what people do in their own country is up to them when they come to this country then they have to accept our culture and our rules... to bad if they are offended.. I am offended by the very nature of this barbaric process..now they are searching for health reasons.. ::) ::) yeah right?... Cods: "Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose." mothra can you point out where anyone has done that?????? can you also explain.. what the tell tale marks are that tells us they have been circumcised???... ::) ::) I am extremely aware that I have never once looked at an african women and suspected that... >:( >:( >:( >:( maybe I am living on a different planet.... but it bothers me that anyone can make an issue out of a 'word'... like cutting or  mutilation..... it is what it is... an invasion of someones body without their consent.... now you are claiming we demonise these women...bnecause of something that happened in their childhood.. I am sorry mothra.....I cant believe you are even serious about this..... why do I get the impression you go out of your way to demonise this country and the people that live here.. why should we PRETEND you admit its awful practice... do you think calling it a different name will make these women feel better about what was done to them??? do you really think that???.. stimatise... when have we ever done that????????.. its the people that do it..to others that are responsible not the victim....

I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated.

Don't you think they've been disempowered enough?

I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience.

I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results.

I'm about results, Cods

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?

"And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."

What a load of appeasing BS Mothra

it is what it is

This PC name changing to appease sensibilities from being offending is a plague/epidemic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzHVv_U6L-k

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:18am:

This is just bloody sick. Female genital cutting common in Indonesia, offered as part of child delivery by birth clinics Performed on babies The 2001-2002 study showed that 85.2% of FGMs was performed before girls reach the age of nine. The 2013 survey showed the age to be going down: 96.7% of FGMs were performed before the age of five years. Of that, 82.8% were performed on babies between the ages 0 and 11 months. Indonesia tried to ban the practice in 2006. But religious clerics reacted by releasing an edict declaring that it was part of a religious practice. In 2010, the Indonesian Health Ministry released a regulation that allowed medical personnel to perform female genital cutting on young girls. https://theconversation.com/female-genital-cutting-common-in-indonesia-offered-as-part-of-child-delivery-by-birth-clinics-54379

That is just appalling. Poor little ones.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:20am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."

So that's a 'no' then?

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

Any chance you could answer any of mine?

you have more chance of winning lotto than FD honestly answering something.

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:13am:

cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:05am: gordon and mothra between you you ruin so many threads.. never fails.. agree to disagree...because this nonsense takes over every thread the two of you get into!!! now good old islamphobia has raised its ugly head...AGAIN grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Well Cods, I've actually never linked FGM exclusively to Islam as I understand it's a regional and cultural issue. Scanning the list of countries that practice FGM the majority would be Muslims, and I've also linked where Imams have endorsed FGM, Indonesian I believe but I don't use FGM as a Muslim bashing tool, that's all in Mothra's deluded mind and she owes me an apology for lying about it.

its the endless arguing between you that gets me....

doesnt matter what the topic.. thats where it ends up in the trashbin....sorry gordy but does every post require and answer??>. some times its better to ignore..

I am thinking mothra has lost her way here...

now we stigmatise these poor victims of this practice....

how where  I have never seen this either...

'we'... she uses meaning all of us....how come I have never seen any of it in that case.?..

as far as I know its against the LAW of Australia thats all I am interested in....

dont give a fig about what its called..

ITS BREAKING OUR LAWS....

for males as far as I know it isnt against the LAW..


but females...yes it is...and those caught out doing it need a good dose of jail time..

dont like our LAWS dont come here... simple really..

it is mostly a religious thing gordy... no denying that...
if it was a Catholic practice I would feel the same way   nauseated.. >:(

to some extent... maybe that needs to be asked when they apply to come here??????.....like are you married. ::) ::) ::) just a thought

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:20am:

What a load of appeasing BS Mothra it is what it is This PC name changing to appease sensibilities from being offending is a plague/epidemic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzHVv_U6L-k

It's got absolutely nothing to do with being PC.

It is about incorporating the women who have been nicked and not disfigured.

It is because that is what the women themselves actually want.

It iss because FGC is the preferred terminology to achieve positive outcomes.

John Smith wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:22am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: Any chance you could answer any of mine? you have more chance of winning lotto than FD honestly answering something.

So it would seem.

Bit of  one trick pony, isn't he?

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:19am:

I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated. Don't you think they've been disempowered enough? I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience. I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results. I'm about results, Cods

you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>..

where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????..

I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:24am:

So it would seem.

I don't recall ever seeing FD answer a straight question with a straight answer.

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:27am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:19am: I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated. Don't you think they've been disempowered enough? I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience. I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results. I'm about results, Cods you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>.. where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????.. I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know

The women have spoken openly.

I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter.

Christians and Animists also perform FGC.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:24am:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: What a load of appeasing BS Mothra it is what it is This PC name changing to appease sensibilities from being offending is a plague/epidemic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzHVv_U6L-k It's got absolutely nothing to do with being PC. It is about incorporating the women who have been nicked and not disfigured. It is because that is what the women themselves actually want. It iss because FGC is the preferred terminology to achieve positive outcomes.

No the women want to weaken the stance against FGM.

Tell me why they(the women) even need to be nicked?

It certainly isn't because of a medical need or cosmetic repair.

Change the name .... then FGM disappears.

Softc0ck appeasement.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:30am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:24am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: What a load of appeasing BS Mothra it is what it is This PC name changing to appease sensibilities from being offending is a plague/epidemic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzHVv_U6L-k It's got absolutely nothing to do with being PC. It is about incorporating the women who have been nicked and not disfigured. It is because that is what the women themselves actually want. It iss because FGC is the preferred terminology to achieve positive outcomes. No the women want to weaken the stance against FGM. Tell me why they(the women) even need to be nicked? It certainly isn't because of a medical need or cosmetic repair. Change the name .... then FGM disappears. Softc0ck appeasement.

You're quite wrong, as i have already proven in this thread.

I tire of repeating myself because people won't read back but the people at the coal face, those that are getting cutters to put down their tools and families not to expose their daughters to this brutal practice use the term FGC.

They find it works better.

I've already explained why.

See if you can come up with some reasons on your own.

No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation".

And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them.

Tell it how it is ....

anything else is appeasement

it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity

in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery.

throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening

and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done

is what needs to happen.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:45am:

No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen.

So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..

Just so we're clear.

And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called? 

Gotcha.

Just so long as it's all about you.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:48am:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..

Yet you don't agree with yearly check-ups of children deemed at high risk.

Clearly cultural sensitivity is a higher priority for you than prevention. Shame on you.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:29am:

cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:27am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:19am: I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated. Don't you think they've been disempowered enough? I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience. I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results. I'm about results, Cods you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>.. where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????.. I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know The women have spoken openly. I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter. Christians and Animists also perform FGC.

I still dont understand you mothra


which Christians and Animists

sorry but thats a new one for me....I am not into religion...but tell me which groups...at least of Christians...thank you..

you are talking to Australians mothra about something we have no control over in other countries./

we can only do something about it in Australia..

and for me at a ny rate to get all heated about words like cutting instead of mutilation..

is total rubbish! and I am sorry the Project hasnt got more important things to talk about..like getting rid of the  barbarism of the 'cutting' worldwide..

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:48am:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you.

George Carlin described you to a tee

It has nothing to do with being all about "me".

What poppyc0ck.

It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM.

Since when do you speak for "all" these women?

Who are all these women?

Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous.

Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed

shouldn't be up for classification and name changing.

The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary.

No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation

not "nicking".

You don't bleed to death from a nick.

Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ...

so we want a name change.  ::)

 

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:10am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Yet you don't agree with yearly check-ups of children deemed at high risk. Clearly cultural sensitivity is a higher priority for you than prevention. Shame on you.

Where did i say that Gordy? You always ake things up when you're losing the argument.

Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  ::)

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:28am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:29am: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:27am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:19am: I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated. Don't you think they've been disempowered enough? I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience. I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results. I'm about results, Cods you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>.. where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????.. I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know The women have spoken openly. I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter. Christians and Animists also perform FGC. I still dont understand you mothra which Christians and Animists sorry but thats a new one for me....I am not into religion...but tell me which groups...at least of Christians...thank you.. you are talking to Australians mothra about something we have no control over in other countries./ we can only do something about it in Australia.. and for me at a ny rate to get all heated about words like cutting instead of mutilation.. is total rubbish! and I am sorry the Project hasnt got more important things to talk about..like getting rid of the  barbarism of the 'cutting' worldwide..

Christian and Animist groups in Africa, Cods.

And who's getting heated up? Not me.

I'm just telling you how the women want to be identified, the most effective terminology to combat the appalling practice and the most descriptive terminology for the practices used.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:32am:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)

Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet?

It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC.

And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you?

But you don't know much, as you are proving.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:50am:

Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  ::)

Yes i have. I've effectively countered every point raised and made most of you look like fools.

I' with thee experts and thee women and girls themselves.

You are with your outrage and prejudice.

Why do we use the term female genital cutting and not female genital mutilation?

We are often asked why we use the term female genital cutting and not female genital mutilation. This blog, posted by our partner Tostan in February 2015, explains why:
FGC? FGM? Female circumcision? Why language matters in helping communities abandon harmful practices

This Friday, February 6, marks the United Nations (UN) International Day for the Abandonment of Female Genital Cutting (FGC). It’s a day to celebrate communities around the world that have decided to abandon this harmful practice, educate people about the work that still needs to be done, and engage partners globally to see millions of women and girls free from FGC.

Tostan has been deeply committed to enabling communities across West Africa to make positive social changes like abandoning FGC. We are frequently asked why we choose to use the term, “female genital cutting” instead of the more widely used, “female genital mutilation.” As we look forward to many conversations this Friday about FGC, we wanted to clarify our use of this language up front so that it doesn’t distract from the bigger picture: working together to end a harmful practice that damages millions of girls and women worldwide.

The terminology around this issue can be challenging. Three separate terms have been widely used to describe the practice: female circumcision, female genital mutilation, and female genital cutting. We avoid the term “circumcision,” as we believe it incorrectly implies a parallel between FGC and male circumcision.  But the fact is, all of these terms have their limitations and fall short of accurately describing this practice—which has four major (and infinite minor) variations in practice around the world. No one term is truly “accurate.”

But we must use words, and so among these options, Tostan has for over 13 years chosen the term female genital cutting based on what communities that are giving up the practice have told us: the term “cutting” allows them to accomplish more than the others because it is less judgmental and value-laden. As a result, the term is more effective for engaging groups in dialog around this practice, and eventually bringing about its end.

We want to be very, very clear about one thing: we do not use this term in an attempt to excuse or diminish the impact of the practice. Anyone who has taken the time to learn about Tostan and watched the testimonies given by Tostan’s local partners—Marietou Diarra, for example— knows that we are in no way hiding or excusing the real, significant consequences of this practice. Yet despite its serious health consequences, we have found that FGC itself is not done with vicious intent to “mutilate” a girl. Rather, parents who have their daughters cut want the best for them, and the practice is seen as a necessary step to enable her to be a fully accepted member of the community.

It seems counter-intuitive, but in our experience, if there is a dominant emotion involved in FGC, it is love—because not cutting your daughter risks her entire future. As explained by a former cutter-turned-Tostan advocate, Oureye Sall, in communities where FGC is practiced, an uncut girl is ostracized. Community members will not eat food cooked by a woman who is not cut, will not accept water from her, will not even sit with her. She will have difficulty getting married. An uncut woman is viewed as unclean and therefore unable to participate fully in the community.

With these social pressures, if a family chooses not to cut their daughter, they have risked severely damaging her social status. To imply that parents are actually “mutilating” their daughters through a decision made with love and concern for her well-being is unfair to them and risks alienating and offending them rather than convincing them to abandon the practice.

In addition, we have found that many communities do not fully understand the consequences of the practice—the effects of which are not always immediate or obvious, especially in cases of infections, tetanus, etc. Without an understanding of concepts such as germ theory, recognizing the true long-term health implications of FGC is difficult. When communities do get access to this information, presented in a manner that is trustworthy and non-combative, they come to understand the harm the practice causes and will decide on their own to stop—but if the person bringing these messages begins with judgmental terms, the chance of reaching this breakthrough disappears.

Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #17 - Yesterday at 1:07pm Quote Modify  We should remember that all of us, no matter where we are from, tend to greet judgmental outsiders in similar ways. When our beliefs and actions are challenged or condemned by a stranger, we are likely to become defensive; rather than taking their concerns to heart, we view their accusation as an unwarranted and uninformed attack on our character. We certainly won’t feel inclined to change in order to satisfy this judgmental critic; we may even respond by holding on more tightly to the belief or action being questioned. Our experience has shown us that it is dialog and discussion that leads to change, and dialog requires a relationship of trust and respect. But calling the practice “mutilation” prevents this relationship from developing and invites defensiveness rather than productive discourse. And, if we take the example of Oureye Sall—who transformed her experience as a former cutter into a source of leadership against FGC—it becomes clear that we must avoid demonizing those who perform the practice. Oureye is not a “mutilator” and villain; she is a hero driven by her new knowledge. When she had cut girls, she did so because the experience and knowledge available to her told her it was right to do so. When she decided to stop and to become a champion of the movement to abandon FGC, it was because new experiences and new knowledge showed her that the practice was harmful and that change was necessary.

Tostan’s experience has shown this to be the case for almost all cutters; they are not evil, they do not seek to “mutilate” girls or bring them harm, but rather they are acting based on what they believe is right.

Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose.

Some prefer to call themselves mutilated, others simply “cut,” many others say less, or nothing, as they are not yet comfortable being public about this very private matter.

We believe women should be free to choose the term that best defines them, and that the term “mutilated” should not be forced upon them.

In short, our use of the term “FGC” is not apology, nor is it political correctness. It is simple practicality: this way of speaking opens doors to dialog that have led to thousands of communities standing up to abandon this practice, doors that more accusatory language would keep shut.

We choose to use language that has proven to be effective, that community leaders and evaluation data alike are telling us brings real, concrete change. In keeping with the above approach, we are not posting this in any effort to pick a fight with others who choose to use different language. We respect the many differences of opinion on this truly complex subject and the language that accompanies it.

We do encourage others to study our experiences, both in relation to FGC and the many, many other areas on which our program works. We hope to continue supporting community-led work in the field to ensure all girls—cut and uncut—have human dignity. These actions are our main focus, and we believe they speak much louder than words. -

See more at: https://orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-
female-genital-mutilation/#sthash.EQQle3C4.dpuf


https://orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-...

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:50am:

cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:28am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:29am: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:27am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:19am: I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated. Don't you think they've been disempowered enough? I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience. I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results. I'm about results, Cods you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>.. where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????.. I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know The women have spoken openly. I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter. Christians and Animists also perform FGC. I still dont understand you mothra which Christians and Animists sorry but thats a new one for me....I am not into religion...but tell me which groups...at least of Christians...thank you.. you are talking to Australians mothra about something we have no control over in other countries./ we can only do something about it in Australia.. and for me at a ny rate to get all heated about words like cutting instead of mutilation.. is total rubbish! and I am sorry the Project hasnt got more important things to talk about..like getting rid of the  barbarism of the 'cutting' worldwide.. Christian and Animist groups in Africa, Cods. And who's getting heated up? Not me. I'm just telling you how the women want to be identified, the most effective terminology to combat the appalling practice and the most descriptive terminology for the practices used.

sorry mothra I do not believe you have met with all these groups in Africa... you are listening to someones version of what they believe happens..

what I am saying is.. the word cutting or mutilation

has not a thing to do with the VICTIM...

and if you took a good look at your argument...you would have to tell all these women you talk with... thats that is the POINT..

stop feeling sorry for them...too little too late..

they need to scream it from the roof tops out as loud as they can

please tell them we dont care what its called.. it changes not a thing..

barbarism.... I believe is a better word...

how about you mothra???

Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something.

It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC


weird.... yet most of us have never heard of it...FGC

so if they are having success.. why this????

why are we talking about a WORD

well alright I will be politically correct.. :-?

two words.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:53am:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)   Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet? It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC. And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you? But you don't know much, as you are proving.

Yes I did ... you wouldn't know.

And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause.

What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play.

Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex.

We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  ::)

By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:54am:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am: Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  ::) Yes i have. I've effectively countered every point raised and made most of you look like fools. I' with thee experts and thee women and girls themselves. You are with your outrage and prejudice.

Such self aggrandizement - you keep believing that petal.

Of course you have, you've been everywhere, done everything & know everyone.  ::)

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:01pm:

Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something.

god you are patronising mothra..

I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised..



and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting..

its makes sense to you

it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned...

these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies..

you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. :( :( :(

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:06pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:54am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am: Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  ::) Yes i have. I've effectively countered every point raised and made most of you look like fools. I' with thee experts and thee women and girls themselves. You are with your outrage and prejudice. Such self aggrandizement - you keep believing that petal. Of course you have, you've been everywhere, done everything & know everyone.  ::)

oh well that explains it then!

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)   Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet? It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC. And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you? But you don't know much, as you are proving. Yes I did ... you wouldn't know. And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause. What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play. Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex. We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  ::) By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall.

Then why did you say nicks weren't used?

not "nicking"

And yes, there has been much success with getting cutters to put down their tools and take up advocacy work; convincing families to boycott the process and empowering women and girls by referring to as FGC over FGM..

BUt i've already evidenced that.

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:06pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm: Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something. god you are patronising mothra.. I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised.. and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting.. its makes sense to you it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned... these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies.. you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. :( :( :(

Why oh why won't you just red the article?

I'm sick to death of repeating myself.

Scared your prejudices will be challenged?

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:06pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:54am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am: Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  ::) Yes i have. I've effectively countered every point raised and made most of you look like fools. I' with thee experts and thee women and girls themselves. You are with your outrage and prejudice. Such self aggrandizement - you keep believing that petal. Of course you have, you've been everywhere, done everything & know everyone.  ::)

Nope.

I just listen to the experts and the survivors.

You, on the other hand, care more about your outrage.

Quote:

I'm just telling you how the women want to be identified,

Go tell it on the mountain.

It's too late for those women ... they've been done.

Changing it to FGC for just them doesn't help those yet to be done.

These women sound more concerned about themselves than the continuation of the various forms of FGM.

So what would you call a rape victim?

An unwilling sperm recipient?

Just to help hide the reality of what really happened.

Or would you prefer adding a longer title and end with "victim"? 

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)   Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet? It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC. And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you? But you don't know much, as you are proving. Yes I did ... you wouldn't know. And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause. What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play. Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex. We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  ::) By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall. Then why did you say nicks weren't used? not "nicking" And yes, there has been much success with getting cutters to put down their tools and take up advocacy work; convincing families to boycott the process and empowering women and girls by referring to as FGC over FGM.. BUt i've already evidenced that.

Where did I say that?

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:14pm:

Quote: I'm just telling you how the women want to be identified, Go tell it on the mountain. It's too late for those women ... they've been done. Changing it to FGC for just them doesn't help those yet to be done. These women sound more concerned about themselves than the continuation of the various forms of FGM. So what would you call a rape victim? An unwilling sperm recipient? Just to help hide the reality of what really happened. Or would you prefer adding a longer title and end with "victim"?

Of course it's not too late for them and their feelings matter. What a revolting thing to say!

Furthermore, i have repeatedly evidenced why using the terminology FGC over FGM has more impact on thee perpetrators and participants, leading to decreased incidents, cutters to down their tools and families to seek out better options.

Why do you continue to overlook this?

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:16pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:08pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)   Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet? It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC. And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you? But you don't know much, as you are proving. Yes I did ... you wouldn't know. And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause. What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play. Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex. We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  ::) By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall. Then why did you say nicks weren't used? not "nicking" And yes, there has been much success with getting cutters to put down their tools and take up advocacy work; convincing families to boycott the process and empowering women and girls by referring to as FGC over FGM.. BUt i've already evidenced that. Where did I say that?

No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation

not "nicking".

You don't bleed to death from a nick.

I am pleased to see my colleagues from WHO enter into this fruitful and lively series of discussion on TierneyLab. As they note, there is no shortage of research on the health effects of various forms of female genital cutting. Their commentary, however, illustrates three problems that will not be resolved by any amount of further research on the medical consequences of female genital cutting because they are interpretive rather than empirical issues. These are:

1. Conclusions about the “medical sequelae of FGM” are applied to the monolithic, undifferentiated practice, and do not seriously differentiate the risks posed by widely various forms of FGC that are performed under a diverse set of circumstances.

Yes, researchers who review the enormous literature on health risks posed by female genital cutting try to differentiate the magnitude of risk by type of cutting. The conclusions, however, are all too often applied to the entire range of practices that are classified as “FGM” without differentiating the obvious difference in risk posed by varied forms of the practice. Yes, there are blindingly obvious risks associated with infibulations. But it is also obvious that nicking, a practice that involves no removal of tissue or permanent alteration of the female genitalia, is not more risky than forms of male circumcision or body piercing that are widely (though obviously not uniformly) condoned in Western society.


https://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/cultural-imperialism-at-the-who/

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm: Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something. god you are patronising mothra.. I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised.. and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting.. its makes sense to you it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned... these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies.. you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. :( :( :( Why oh why won't you just red the article? I'm sick to death of repeating myself. Scared your prejudices will be challenged?

Read the article ... referenced by the WHO.

They're having a wonderful affect stopping immigrant families in a country where the practice is illegal still leaving the country to get it done to their daughters.

No matter what degree of seriousness of FGM/FGC they undergo.

And as far as I'm concerned you can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face or fingers.

I'm not wearing your mega trendy PC propaganda of deflection/appeasement.

The women already done don't need to be referred to as anything other than their names.

That they have suffered this abhorrent practice is enough.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:23pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:09pm: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm: Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something. god you are patronising mothra.. I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised.. and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting.. its makes sense to you it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned... these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies.. you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. :( :( :( Why oh why won't you just red the article? I'm sick to death of repeating myself. Scared your prejudices will be challenged? Read the article ... referenced by the WHO. They're having a wonderful affect stopping immigrant families in a country where the practice is illegal still leaving the country to get it done to their daughters. No matter what degree of seriousness of FGM/FGC they undergo. And as far as I'm concerned you can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face or fingers. I'm not wearing your mega trendy PC propaganda of deflection/appeasement. The women already done don't need to be referred to as anything other than their names. That they have suffered this abhorrent practice is enough.

Yet they are referred to as mutilated very, very often,

They are saying they would prefer not to be referred to like that.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:16pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:08pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)   Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet? It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC. And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you? But you don't know much, as you are proving. Yes I did ... you wouldn't know. And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause. What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play. Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex. We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  ::) By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall. Then why did you say nicks weren't used? not "nicking" And yes, there has been much success with getting cutters to put down their tools and take up advocacy work; convincing families to boycott the process and empowering women and girls by referring to as FGC over FGM.. BUt i've already evidenced that. Where did I say that? No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick.

Clever girl ..... NOT.

Removing a clitoral hood is not a nick ... you can bleed to death.

That the idiots that perform it call it a "Nick"is irrelevant and not what I was referring to.

The whole idea of any of these processes in the main is to curtail sexual promiscuity.

Removal of a clitoral hood ... therefore exposing it more would have the opposite affect ..... that is if you know what a clitoris is? .......... ;D ;D ;D

So IMHO the so called "nick" would be more extensive than you seem to portray.

BTW .... if you're so sick of repeating yourself why don't you put some new batteries in Mr. Buzzy & go and have a good lie down? ;D ;D

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:23pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:09pm: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm: Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something. god you are patronising mothra.. I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised.. and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting.. its makes sense to you it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned... these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies.. you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. :( :( :( Why oh why won't you just red the article? I'm sick to death of repeating myself. Scared your prejudices will be challenged? Read the article ... referenced by the WHO. They're having a wonderful affect stopping immigrant families in a country where the practice is illegal still leaving the country to get it done to their daughters. No matter what degree of seriousness of FGM/FGC they undergo. And as far as I'm concerned you can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face or fingers. I'm not wearing your mega trendy PC propaganda of deflection/appeasement. The women already done don't need to be referred to as anything other than their names. That they have suffered this abhorrent practice is enough. Yet they are referred to as mutilated very, very often, They are saying they would prefer not to be referred to like that.

That's because in most cases they are  ::)

Hiding the truth does nothing for the whole process.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:30pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:20pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:16pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:08pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:04pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am: No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation". And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them. Tell it how it is .... anything else is appeasement it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery. throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done is what needs to happen. So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results.. Just so we're clear. And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called?  Gotcha. Just so long as it's all about you. George Carlin described you to a tee It has nothing to do with being all about "me". What poppyc0ck. It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM. Since when do you speak for "all" these women? Who are all these women? Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous. Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed shouldn't be up for classification and name changing. The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary. No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ... so we want a name change.  ::)   Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet? It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC. And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you? But you don't know much, as you are proving. Yes I did ... you wouldn't know. And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause. What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play. Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex. We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  ::) By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall. Then why did you say nicks weren't used? not "nicking" And yes, there has been much success with getting cutters to put down their tools and take up advocacy work; convincing families to boycott the process and empowering women and girls by referring to as FGC over FGM.. BUt i've already evidenced that. Where did I say that? No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation not "nicking". You don't bleed to death from a nick. Clever girl ..... NOT. Removing a clitoral hood is not a nick ... you can bleed to death. That the idiots that perform it call it a "Nick"is irrelevant and not what I was referring to. The whole idea of any of these processes in the main is to curtail sexual promiscuity. Removal of a clitoral hood ... therefore exposing it more would have the opposite affect ..... that is if you know what a clitoris is? .......... ;D ;D ;D So IMHO the so called "nick" would be more extensive than you seem to portray. BTW .... if you're so sick of repeating yourself why don't you put some new batteries in Mr. Buzzy & go and have a good lie down? ;D ;D

God you're tedious.

I'm not referring to the removal of the clitoral hood, i' talking about NICKING the clitoral hood.


You only just said you knew it happened. Lying were you?

And i wouldn't need to repeat myself if you idiots didn't keep repeating the same already effectively countered questions.

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:32pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:25pm: Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:23pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:09pm: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:06pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm: Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something. god you are patronising mothra.. I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised.. and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting.. its makes sense to you it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned... these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies.. you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. :( :( :( Why oh why won't you just red the article? I'm sick to death of repeating myself. Scared your prejudices will be challenged? Read the article ... referenced by the WHO. They're having a wonderful affect stopping immigrant families in a country where the practice is illegal still leaving the country to get it done to their daughters. No matter what degree of seriousness of FGM/FGC they undergo. And as far as I'm concerned you can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face or fingers. I'm not wearing your mega trendy PC propaganda of deflection/appeasement. The women already done don't need to be referred to as anything other than their names. That they have suffered this abhorrent practice is enough. Yet they are referred to as mutilated very, very often, They are saying they would prefer not to be referred to like that. That's because in most cases they are  ::) Hiding the truth does nothing for the whole process.

They are also cut.

Would you like to be referred to as mutilated? Against your wishes?

Why, Gnads, is it more important for you to right than to be sensitive to the women who are asking you to be considerate of their feelings when referring to them?

She began by explaining why she has a problem with the term ‘female genital mutilation’.

‘I think it’s quite harsh and it’s very western-centric,’ Ms Gbla told me. ‘In Africa mostly we call it “female circumcision”, which I think goes to show more respect to the victims, while “female genital mutilation” just conjures up horrible pictures in people’s minds... It doesn’t go to support or help our mental health.’ In brief, she objects to being described repeatedly as someone who is mutilated.

I was circumcised when I was 13, as is the custom in my culture. I am a Maasai woman, and where I am from, in the Loita Hills of south-west Kenya, nearly all girls are circumcised when they begin menstruating.

My procedure involved the removal of my clitoris, my labia minora and the partial removal of my labia majora. I knew it was going to be painful, and I knew I would have to undergo it whether I liked it or not, but nothing prepared me for the pain. I bled so much that day, and it only lessened with the use of a traditional healing ointment. But the pain got worse and worse. The pain on the third day was unbearable, and I developed an infection.

Fifteen years have passed since then, and I have just had my third healthy child, despite the fact that delivering babies after circumcision is hard. Two of my three children are girls – I do not want my daughters to endure what I went through.

I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated. In my Maasai community, a girl who is not "cut" is unable to take up her traditional role as a mother and wife. I know my parents thought they were doing what was right for me when they arranged for my circumcision. I do not blame my parents – the cultural roots of female genital cutting are so embedded in my community that parents believe it is the best thing for their daughters. Girls often want to be circumcised so that they will be fully accepted by their culture.

The challenge of eliminating the practice in a culture that sees it as a rite of passage is huge, but the stakes couldn't be higher. Female circumcision has serious health consequences: it can cause death and increases the risk of sepsis, fistulas and vaginal prolapse. Scarring renders sex painful.

Until very recently, 98% of girls in the Loita Hills were circumcised. As project manager for a charity, Safe Kenya, dedicated to tackling female genital cutting, my job is to end the practice in my community while also respecting my culture.

There are 18 of us who perform traditional Maasai songs, updated with messages about ending female genital cutting to educate our community. After these performances, we talk to men, women and children from across the region to deliver further education and promote change. We started this work in 2008 and, since then, have learned a lot about how to end this violence.

Cutting girls is illegal in Kenya, but it is a community decision, so we engage with everyone at all levels in the community – from circumcisers, to young boys, to parents and girls. We know that if we can change everybody's mind then we will end this practice. Our message is that we are encouraging people to change one part of Maasai culture, but not give up all of what makes us proud to be Maasai. As one woman we educated told us: "You come to us in a proper way, in our own language. You are one of us and you would not trick us." Our position means we can talk to people about change and that they listen.

Circumcision in Maasai culture marks the transition from girlhood to womanhood, so in order to encourage people to move away from female genital cutting we have developed an alternative rite of passage, in which the girl experiences all the elements of the ceremony but is not cut. She has her head shaved and is given the bracelet that signifies her graduation, but instead of being cut she has milk poured on her thighs. When she reappears, she wears the traditional headdress which symbolises that a girl is now recognised as a woman.

This symbolic ceremony is popular because we developed it in partnership with members of the community. It is not perceived as a threat to our culture. Fathers are now requesting the circumcisers who we have trained in this alternative rite because they are considered "better". Because we are giving our community something to replace female genital cutting, this change can be permanent.

I am one of the first women in my community to hold a leadership position. I know that what we are doing is helping to challenge the idea of women as able only to be wives and mothers. Together with the men who support us, we are going to end this practice here, in a way that every Maasai man and woman can accept. And we are making steady progress.

I speak to lots of mothers and circumcisers and we now think that 20% of girls are receiving the alternative rite. As part of the project, some of the men who used to be warriors teach the new warriors about the dangers of female genital cutting for girls, and encourage them to say publicly that they would marry uncut girls. This is important because one of the main reasons parents have their girls circumcised is to make sure they can find a husband.

If we can carry on performing and educating, we can get our community to declare the abandonment of female genital cutting within three years. If we can end it here in my community, we will have the means to end it everywhere.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/06/alternative-to-circumcision-prevents-girls-suffering-kenya

So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/

My procedure involved the removal of my clitoris, my labia minora and the partial removal of my labia majora. I knew it was going to be painful, and I knew I would have to undergo it whether I liked it or not, but nothing prepared me for the pain. I bled so much that day, and it only lessened with the use of a traditional healing ointment. But the pain got worse and worse. The pain on the third day was unbearable, and I developed an infection.



BARBARIC.....and no it is more than circumcision..

fewer and fewer males are being done.....yet females it mandatory although by the sound of this its life threatening... >:( >:(




I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated.


then dont think about it....you almost seem proud of the fact yet you dont want your own daughters to go through it..

how about under anesthetic?????... would she accept that?

sorry mothra I think I am out of this topic now....

got nothing more to add.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:53pm:

So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/

well almost gone



who in there right minds sits and has a conversation about this.......

they have studied it for years....and all they have come up with is call it cutting and not mutllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

I give up.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us." So that's a 'no' then?

"We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 2:08pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm: So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/ well almost gone who in there right minds sits and has a conversation about this....... they have studied it for years....and all they have come up with is call it cutting and not mutllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll I give up.

Ban immigration to any western country anyone who's children have been mutilated.

Gordon wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:12pm:

parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country. That would provide a disincentive to the practice.

Good idea, Gordon. This would require every girl entering Australia to have their clits checked.

But I'm curious - should we do the same for boys?

You should be okay. You're intact.

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 2:08pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm: So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/ well almost gone who in there right minds sits and has a conversation about this....... they have studied it for years....and all they have come up with is call it cutting and not mutllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll I give up.

No Cods. There hs been success on the ground. utters have put down there tools nd taken up advoccy positions. Parents have elected not to inflict the procedure on their daughters .. in some cases tribal leaders have changed their recommendations.

And the success has come through non-confrontational dialogue and education.

As i have repeatedly outlined, and as you would have learned for yourself had you read the article, judgmental terminology just gets people's backs up.

If anything, it pushes the practice more underground, resulting in more cuttings.

I want this practice stopped.

I am listening to the experts on the best practices for doing precisely that.

Western "outrage" isn't helping.

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

fewer and fewer males are being done.....yet females it mandatory although by the sound of this its life threatening... >:( >:( [/b] I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated. then dont think about it....you almost seem proud of the fact yet you dont want your own daughters to go through it.. how about under anesthetic?????... would she accept that? sorry mothra I think I am out of this topic now.... got nothing more to add.

You're seriously telling a survivor simply not to think about it rather than adjust your terminology to something that is not only sensitive but is proven to be working?

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 2:36pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us." So that's a 'no' then? "We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."

Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous.

How about stretching your mind and answering my questions?

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 3:31pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us." So that's a 'no' then? "We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us." Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous. How about stretching your mind and answering my questions?

Not until you use more respectful words in your questions.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 3:38pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us." So that's a 'no' then? "We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us." Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous. How about stretching your mind and answering my questions? Not until you use more respectful words in your questions.

I get the strong impression that everything raised by this topic has gon sailing right over the top of your head.

Alas, some people have their prejudices too ingrained to be challenged.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 3:43pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:38pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us." So that's a 'no' then? "We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us." Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous. How about stretching your mind and answering my questions? Not until you use more respectful words in your questions. I get the strong impression that everything raised by this topic has gon sailing right over the top of your head. Alas, some people have their prejudices too ingrained to be challenged.

Do you think I should be more open minded about female genital mutilation, like you are?

How does this actually help stamp out the practice when your BS spin is identical to that coming from people like Abu who promote it?

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 3:45pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:43pm: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:38pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am: mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am: freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am: Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...." No. And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice. See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine? "And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us." So that's a 'no' then? "We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us." Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous. How about stretching your mind and answering my questions? Not until you use more respectful words in your questions. I get the strong impression that everything raised by this topic has gon sailing right over the top of your head. Alas, some people have their prejudices too ingrained to be challenged. Do you think I should be more open minded about female genital mutilation, like you are?

Yep. Right over the top of your head.

mothra wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 3:29pm:

cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm: fewer and fewer males are being done.....yet females it mandatory although by the sound of this its life threatening... >:( >:( [/b] I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated. then dont think about it....you almost seem proud of the fact yet you dont want your own daughters to go through it.. how about under anesthetic?????... would she accept that? sorry mothra I think I am out of this topic now.... got nothing more to add. You're seriously telling a survivor simply not to think about it rather than adjust your terminology to something that is not only sensitive but is proven to be working?

when have I ever discussed this topic with anyone???..


ye gods and little fishes...you are kidding me are you not???>.

I am seriously telling someone who claims it is part of their culture...

please  stop trying to change us...

its the wording we want changed.. :'(

because by your reckoning.. its all about the word MUTILATION thats bothers this person....

and of course thats the Wests fault.. of course it is..

now the word CUTTING is making any female who goes through what this person claims she went through..

OK because its not called MUTILATION anymore.


if you udnerstand that rubbish then good luck with that..

I have never heard of a word being responsible for terrible barbaric operations on female children being acceptable.......it isnt and wont be acceptabel ever in Australia no matter what name you put opn it mothra..

and if you think a silly little forum like this will change anything in Africa.. you have ev en more problems than first thought..

tell this to the Project or the ABC I am sure they will be thrilled to give you half an hour to tell Australia what they have been doing wrong all these years.

its cutting not mutilation... everyone should know that. >:( >:(

crazy.!

I dont care what its called..

I just want it GONE  for ever...

its barbaric.... and no amount of word changing will change that fact

you are crazy if you think that makes these women feel better.

cods wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 8:42pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:29pm: cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm: fewer and fewer males are being done.....yet females it mandatory although by the sound of this its life threatening... >:( >:( [/b] I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated. then dont think about it....you almost seem proud of the fact yet you dont want your own daughters to go through it.. how about under anesthetic?????... would she accept that? sorry mothra I think I am out of this topic now.... got nothing more to add. You're seriously telling a survivor simply not to think about it rather than adjust your terminology to something that is not only sensitive but is proven to be working? when have I ever discussed this topic with anyone???.. ye gods and little fishes...you are kidding me are you not???>. I am seriously telling someone who claims it is part of their culture... please  stop trying to change us... its the wording we want changed.. :'( because by your reckoning.. its all about the word MUTILATION thats bothers this person.... and of course thats the Wests fault.. of course it is.. now the word CUTTING is making any female who goes through what this person claims she went through.. OK because its not called MUTILATION anymore. if you udnerstand that rubbish then good luck with that.. I have never heard of a word being responsible for terrible barbaric operations on female children being acceptable.......it isnt and wont be acceptabel ever in Australia no matter what name you put opn it mothra.. and if you think a silly little forum like this will change anything in Africa.. you have ev en more problems than first thought.. tell this to the Project or the ABC I am sure they will be thrilled to give you half an hour to tell Australia what they have been doing wrong all these years. its cutting not mutilation... everyone should know that. >:( >:( crazy.!

How, despite how many times i have explained it, failed so spectacularly to miss every point i've made?