Hundreds of scientists urge Trump to withdraw from U.N. climate-change agency

MIT’s Richard Lindzen says policies cause economic harm with ‘no environmental benefits’

By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Thursday, February 23, 2017




More than 300 scientists have urged President Trump to withdraw from the U.N.’s climate change agency, warning that its push to curtail carbon dioxide threatens to exacerbate poverty without improving the environment.
In a Thursday letter to the president, MIT professor emeritus Richard Lindzen called on the United States and other nations to “change course on an outdated international agreement that targets minor greenhouse gases,” starting with carbon dioxide.

“Since 2009, the US and other governments have undertaken actions with respect to global climate that are not scientifically justified and that already have, and will continue to cause serious social and economic harm — with no environmental benefits,” said Mr. Lindzen, a prominent atmospheric physicist.


Signers of the attached petition include the U.S. and international atmospheric scientists, meteorologists, physicists, professors and others taking issue with the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change [UNFCCC], which was formed in 1992 to combat “dangerous” climate change.
The 2016 Paris climate accord, which sets nonbinding emissions goals for nations, was drawn up under the auspices of the UNFCCC.

“Observations since the UNFCCC was written 25 years ago show that warming from increased atmospheric CO2 will be benign — much less than initial model predictions,” says the petition

Mr. Trump said during the campaign he would “cancel” U.S. participation in the Paris Agreement, which was ratified in September by former President Barack Obama over the objections of Senate Republicans, who argued that the accord requires Senate ratification under the U.S. Constitution.
Myron Ebell, a Competitive Enterprise Institute scholar who led the Trump transition team on the Environmental Protection Agency, told reporters last month in London that the president would pull out of the Paris Agreement.

Advocates for climate change policies have called for Mr. Trump to honor the agreement, under which nations agree to enact policies to keep the increase in global temperatures this century under 2 degrees Celsius from pre-industrial levels.

Last week the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops reaffirmed its support for the Paris Agreement in a letter to Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson, saying the agreement is “urgently needed if we are to meet our common and differentiated responsibilities for the effects of climate change.”

More than 700 companies and investors have signed onto a statement urging Mr. Trump to abide by the Paris accord coordinated by nine environmental groups, including the American Sustainable Business Council, the Environmental Defense Fund and the World Wildlife Fund.

“Failure to build a low-carbon economy puts American prosperity at risk. But the right action now will create jobs and boost US competitiveness,” said the statement on LowCarbonUSA.org. “We pledge to do our part, in our own operations and beyond, to realize the Paris Agreement’s commitment of a global economy that limits global temperature rise to well below 2 degrees Celsius.”

Challenging the catastrophic climate change narrative, Mr. Lindzen describes carbon dioxide as “plant food, not poison.”

“Restricting access to fossil fuels has very negative effects upon the wellbeing of people around the world,” he says in his letter.

“It condemns over 4 billion people in still underdeveloped countries to continued poverty.”

Oh gawd, not the plant food nonsense again!

Bet all those “scientists” work for Exxon or the like.

An Emeritus Professor at MIT has to have some cred, no?

What is a he a professor of, bulldust?

This is all crap, Boges. Real scientists know greenhouse gases do act in the atmosphere like a greenhouse. Sorry.

Not only that, too much CO2 is not good for plants, nor are the higher night time temperatures too much CO2 etc in the atmosphere brings.

It is tripe, a political not a scientific thing, to give Trumpy the bare minimum credibility for what he wants to do anyway.

What a great idea...so much wasted on climate change

You want to see what determines everything about Climate Change? Look up in the sky - it's called the Sun

And it will determine everything there is about the Earth's future be it good or bad

bogarde73 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:16pm:

An Emeritus Professor at MIT has to have some cred, no?

Why ?

He isn't at MIT ?

It just means that they let him keep his title after being pensioned off.

Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact

And immediately 4 X as many scientists asked him to stay.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:24pm:

Real scientists know greenhouse gases do act in the atmosphere like a greenhouse

Describe the cooling effect of convection in a greenhouse. You know one of those things typically glass roof, glass walls, sealed.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:24pm:

too much CO2 is not good for plants

How much is too much? Greenhouses typically use up to 1500ppm, over three times current levels.

http://fifthseasongardening.com/regulating-carbon-dioxide

And how can a change to clean energy cause more poverty? Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal mining and burning coal causes death to miners every year and kills those in the area where coal is being mined and burned.

A nonsense—a political ploy to give (threadbare) scientific credibility to what Trump wants to do anyway.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:35pm:

And how can a change to clean energy cause more poverty? Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal mining and burning coal causes death to miners every year and kills those in the area where coal is being mined and burned. A nonsense—a political ploy to give (threadbare) scientific credibility to what Trump wants to do anyway.

There is a place known as 'reality'.....consider visiting once in a while, you really need to.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:35pm:

Solar is cheaper than coal.

In what universe?

BTW- the Climate council video is now online. Abso-bloody-lutely no data.

http://www.climatecouncil.org.au/renewables-clean-and-cheaper-than-coal

Although they say solar costs have dropped 58% in five years, they don't say what it was and what it is now.

More like a self-interest advocacy group than a scientific group.

Rider wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 4:35pm: And how can a change to clean energy cause more poverty? Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal mining and burning coal causes death to miners every year and kills those in the area where coal is being mined and burned. A nonsense—a political ploy to give (threadbare) scientific credibility to what Trump wants to do anyway. There is a place known as 'reality'.....consider visiting once in a while, you really need to.

People get respiratory diseases from coal dust and soot. Coal is dirty in many ways, not just the CO2 pollution.

And solar is cheaper than coal. Why do you think banks, investors are increasingly distancing themselves from coal projects? Because they will be stranded assets in not that much time.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:05pm:

And solar is cheaper than coal.

Perhaps you are talking about economic cost rather than cost?

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:05pm:

Rider wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 5:11pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 4:35pm: And how can a change to clean energy cause more poverty? Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal mining and burning coal causes death to miners every year and kills those in the area where coal is being mined and burned. A nonsense—a political ploy to give (threadbare) scientific credibility to what Trump wants to do anyway. There is a place known as 'reality'.....consider visiting once in a while, you really need to. People get respiratory diseases from coal dust and soot. Coal is dirty in many ways, not just the CO2 pollution. And solar is cheaper than coal. Why do you think banks, investors are increasingly distancing themselves from coal projects? Because they will be stranded assets in not that much time.

Garbage. What are you? The Minister of Misinformation?

Cheap coal fired power stations providing mass reliable electricity supply save impoverished cities from wood smoke, smog, dung fires, creating civilisation.

Corrupt levies and subsidies favouring so called renewables drive up the cost of electricity.  Your so called cheap solar etc is simple fraud. Doing nothing but imposing higher living expences on those least able to afford it, just another socialist ideology bankrupt of any social improvement despite bleating ceaselessly to the contrary.

Rabid socialist green activists targetting banks makes weak committees and boards succumb to the drivel created by the spineless media and pitiful mindless social media campaigns manipulated to equally vacuous useful idiots.

All who campaign for your special brand of stupidity should be charged with treason, or simply institutionalized for your own good.

Rider wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:04am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 6:05pm: Rider wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 5:11pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 4:35pm: And how can a change to clean energy cause more poverty? Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal mining and burning coal causes death to miners every year and kills those in the area where coal is being mined and burned. A nonsense—a political ploy to give (threadbare) scientific credibility to what Trump wants to do anyway. There is a place known as 'reality'.....consider visiting once in a while, you really need to. People get respiratory diseases from coal dust and soot. Coal is dirty in many ways, not just the CO2 pollution. And solar is cheaper than coal. Why do you think banks, investors are increasingly distancing themselves from coal projects? Because they will be stranded assets in not that much time. Garbage. What are you? The Minister of Misinformation? Cheap coal fired power stations providing mass reliable electricity supply save impoverished cities from wood smoke, smog, dung fires, creating civilisation. Corrupt levies and subsidies favouring so called renewables drive up the cost of electricity.  Your so called cheap solar etc is simple fraud. Doing nothing but imposing higher living expences on those least able to afford it, just another socialist ideology bankrupt of any social improvement despite bleating ceaselessly to the contrary. Rabid socialist green activists targetting banks makes weak committees and boards succumb to the drivel created by the spineless media and pitiful mindless social media campaigns manipulated to equally vacuous useful idiots. All who campaign for your special brand of stupidity should be charged with treason, or simply institutionalized for your own good.

It has been a few months since I had to light up the old dung fire in Sydney, guess your talking about Perth ?

Rider wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:04am:

Garbage. What are you? The Minister of Misinformation? Cheap coal fired power stations providing mass reliable electricity supply save impoverished cities from wood smoke, smog, dung fires, creating civilisation. Corrupt levies and subsidies favouring so called renewables drive up the cost of electricity.  Your so called cheap solar etc is simple fraud. Doing nothing but imposing higher living expences on those least able to afford it, just another socialist ideology bankrupt of any social improvement despite bleating ceaselessly to the contrary. Rabid socialist green activists targetting banks makes weak committees and boards succumb to the drivel created by the spineless media and pitiful mindless social media campaigns manipulated to equally vacuous useful idiots. All who campaign for your special brand of stupidity should be charged with treason, or simply institutionalized for your own good.

Absolutely love it:

[list bull-greensq]

Garbage.
[list bull-greensq]

Minister of Misinformation
[list bull-greensq]

Corrupt levies
[list bull-greensq]

save impoverished cities from wood smoke, smog, dung fires
[list bull-greensq]

simple fraud
[list bull-greensq]

socialist ideology bankrupt
[list bull-greensq]

bleating ceaselessly
[list bull-greensq]

Rabid socialist green activists
[list bull-greensq]

succumb to the drivel
[list bull-greensq]

spineless media
[list bull-greensq]

manipulated to equally vacuous useful idiots
[list bull-greensq]

campaign for your special brand of stupidity
[list bull-greensq]

charged with treason
[list bull-greensq]

or simply institutionalized for your own good

All that hysteria. Mummy Mummy don’t let them change ANYthing, I afraid of change, Waaaaaah!

Coal is dirty and dangerous to mine.

Burning coal dumps CO2 into the atmosphere causing global warming. It also causes repiratory diseases in some of those in the areas around the coal fired power station

Coal fired generators are becoming stranded assets through divestment of coal assets by investors and banks. Rooftop solar increasingly cuts demand in the most profitable part of the day for coal fired generators. Solar is cheaper than coal.

Coal has had its day.

..

Climate Change is REAL!

Don't listen to those that say it isn't.

Climate change has been happening for billions of years,

& will for billions more to come, with or without our help.

[media width=500]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSrjAXK5pGw[/media]


[media width=500]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDWEjSDYfxc[/media]


[media width=500]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwqIy8Ikv-c[/media]


..

..

Watch the Entire Documentary:

"The Great Global Warming Swindle"




[media width=625]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg[/media]

..

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:39am:

All that hysteria. Mummy Mummy don’t let them change ANYthing, I afraid of change, Waaaaaah! Coal is dirty and dangerous to mine. Burning coal dumps CO2 into the atmosphere causing global warming. It also causes repiratory diseases in some of those in the areas around the coal fired power station Coal fired generators are becoming stranded assets through divestment of coal assets by investors and banks. Rooftop solar increasingly cuts demand in the most profitable part of the day for coal fired generators. Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal has had its day.

Yes coal dust can cause health issues. So can burnt toast. The rest is utter dribbling bollocks.

The rest is you refusing to look at the evidence for AGW (spectrometry readings) because you are afraid of having to change your lifestyle a bit.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:24pm:

What is a he a professor of, bulldust? This is all crap, Boges. Real scientists know greenhouse gases do act in the atmosphere like a greenhouse. Sorry. Not only that, too much CO2 is not good for plants, nor are the higher night time temperatures too much CO2 etc in the atmosphere brings. It is tripe, a political not a scientific thing, to give Trumpy the bare minimum credibility for what he wants to do anyway.

He was a contributor to Chapter 4 of the IPCC Second Assessment (1995) and a Lead Author of Chapter 7, “Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks” of the IPCC Third Assessment Report ( 2001).

;)

How does that compare to your qualifications?

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:07pm:

The rest is you refusing to look at the evidence for AGW (spectrometry readings) because you are afraid of having to change your lifestyle a bit.

No, I honestly couldn't give a rats ass about any so called evidence........like when they say my monster truck causes too much CO₂   I fill it up, & run it hard any time I can......when they say to turn off the lights on that evening every year, I make sure that all mine are on full blast.......I just love those vapor trails crisscrossing my deep blue sky every day........I burn fossil fuels, & always will....I love the smell of burning wood from a fireplace or wood heater, or coal from a coal burning stove........I look forward to that every year.......Living in Rural Victoria gives me options city folk don't have or want........Lastly, I will never subscribe to any AGW Voodoo Science.  8-)

That said, I do believe in Climate Change....it exists....it can cause problems, but I believe that we are just experiencing a very small, insignificant part of, a 4 billion year old natural cycle, & man's contribution....good or bad....if any.....is miniscule.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:07pm:

The rest is you refusing to look at the evidence for AGW (spectrometry readings) because you are afraid of having to change your lifestyle a bit.

Why? It'll all be bunkum. Just like the fraud of rising temperatures and mythical sea level rises caused by a miniscule trace gas I'm currently exhaling with gusto.

Go back to your cave monk.

lee wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 2:24pm: What is a he a professor of, bulldust? This is all crap, Boges. Real scientists know greenhouse gases do act in the atmosphere like a greenhouse. Sorry. Not only that, too much CO2 is not good for plants, nor are the higher night time temperatures too much CO2 etc in the atmosphere brings. It is tripe, a political not a scientific thing, to give Trumpy the bare minimum credibility for what he wants to do anyway. He was a contributor to Chapter 4 of the IPCC Second Assessment (1995) and a Lead Author of Chapter 7, “Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks” of the IPCC Third Assessment Report ( 2001). ;) How does that compare to your qualifications?

You could also quote his mate Mockton ?

Most of this guys claims have been debunked, it is a load of rubbish. He was likely retired for a reason.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:03pm:

You could also quote his mate Mockton ?

Who?


Dnarever wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:03pm:

Most of this guys claims have been debunked, it is a load of rubbish. He was likely retired for a reason.

Perhaps you can supply a peer-reviewed paper? ;)

lee wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:30pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 2:24pm: too much CO2 is not good for plants How much is too much? Greenhouses typically use up to 1500ppm, over three times current levels. http://fifthseasongardening.com/regulating-carbon-dioxide

well I see that Joke Monk dodged that one.. like he did last week...

our current levels are 406ppm... sweet FA'

and all the mad gardeners are using CO2 enrichment in their Green houses..

lee wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 4:03pm: You could also quote his mate Mockton ? Who? Dnarever wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 4:03pm: Most of this guys claims have been debunked, it is a load of rubbish. He was likely retired for a reason. Perhaps you can supply a peer-reviewed paper? ;)

Beer review was my initial thought, but on the amount of $$$ millions these frauds steal from us tax slaves I'm sure they are tippling on much better stuff than a few crusty VB's.

President Trump will be leaving the Paris agreement to hang out to dry............whither on the vine.........without the USA it will self-strangle, with no chance of resuscitation in any form! http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/laughing024.gif

Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close.

Yes and new more economic ones will open. What on earth is your point? If you have one.

Won’t be new coal fired power stations.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close.

Only if renewables keep getting horrendous subsidies.

Either with or without carbon tax, the price of carbon based fuels are rising.  Noted, even though crude oil have more or less geopolitical implications, but the process of refining it, transporting and then selling it, are costing more and more.  This combined with the fact that electrical storage technology and non carbon based electric generation is getting cheaper, it would not be long before the market sort itself out.

Carbon based energy may be only costing less now, but the amount of environmental damage, the land and environmental impact needed to support both the infrastructure and extraction process will cost the taxpayer for many generations to come.  Companies comes and go, but they left gigantic holes behind that is practically unusable for anything else.   For example: Hazelwood mine fire 2014, Morwell, Victoria.  The fire burn for 45 days straight in an area that is supposingly undergoing rehabilitation.   The health cost to the local community is huge.   These are the costs that are not factored in when you sell coal at 30 to 40 dollars a ton.

And indeed, looking ahead for example 100 or may be just 50 years.  Fossil fuel and Coal are both finite resources.   In order for the human race to prosper into the future.  Carbon based energy production will have to be replaced by non carbon based.    It is the least available form of energy in the known universe.   We are at an early to mid stage of this transformation.  The key to prosperity of any country on Earth is whoever figure out how to do cost effective renewable energy first. 

Supplies of coal are huge, oil/gas are the more scarce resource.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:02pm:

Won’t be new coal fired power stations.

http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/bsflagSM40X75.gif

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:02pm:

Won’t be new coal fired power stations.

Really???!!  ...........  Think again! http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/taunt.gif



What happened to 151 proposed Coal Plants in America ?



Source:      CMD    
Quote:

Beginning around the year 2000, in response to increases in natural gas prices, utilities across the United States began a renewed push to build new coal-fired electricity generating plants and coal-fueld synthetic fuels plants. The National Energy Technology Laboratory, a division of the Department of Energy, issues periodic updates of "Tracking New Coal-Fired Power Plants," a database of such projects, but that report ceased providing project-specific information after May 2007. The May 2007 list, which showed 151 proposed coal plants, received widespread publicity and helped galvanize the movement for a coal moratorium.[1] As of December 2013, the status of the plants shown on the list was as follows:     Cancelled, abandoned, or on hold: 106     Early stages of development: 3      Advanced stages of development: 1      ★★ In operation or under construction: 41 In addition to the 151 proposed coal plants listed in the May 2007 NETL report, additional coal projects have been identified by the Sierra Club, which maintains the "Stopping the Coal Rush" database. As of October 2015, the list included 236 projects:     Active: 17      Cancelled: 189     ★★ Progressing: 30

Who is CMD?


Quote:

The Center for Media and Democracy is a national watchdog group that conducts in-depth investigations into corruption and the undue influence of corporations on media and democracy. The findings of CMD's investigative journalism are regularly cited by the leading national and state newspapers in the U.S., including the New York Times, the Guardian, and the Washington Post. CMD's reporting is credited by news shows on major broadcast stations including HBO, Showtime, PBS, NBC, CBS, and others, and has also been featured on in-depth news programs, such as Moyers & Company, Democracy Now, and the Thom Hartmann Show, as well as NPR and other public broadcasting agencies, such as the BBC and CBC.

Now the CMD.....an anti-coal group (linked to the famous greenie Sierra Club) in the USA publishes these figures.

They are admitting that not only are coal plants in America increasing, that since the Trump victory in November, applications are increasing at higher levels, & now because they have a friend in the White House, Coal will be making it's comeback in America!

America will be building new Clean-Coal Powered  Power Generating Plants ;)

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 1:18pm:

Supplies of coal are huge, oil/gas are the more scarce resource.

http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/laughing024.gif http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/laughing024.gif http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/laughing024.gif   Surely you jest!!

List of Countries by Proven Oil Reserves (link)

lee wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:37pm: Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close. Only if renewables keep getting horrendous subsidies.

Not only that but they are frauds......Solar.....they say they will buy excess electricity from you.....original contract they pay you 42 cents per kwh.....

Now, when the contract is over you pay them 38 cents per kwh for what you use, & they will pay you only 6 cents per kwh for the excess you generate.......

In effect, after the initial contract is over, you pay way more buying back the electricity you sold them......paying more for your own energy!!

Solar........what a scam!

Rider wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:39am: All that hysteria. Mummy Mummy don’t let them change ANYthing, I afraid of change, Waaaaaah! Coal is dirty and dangerous to mine. Burning coal dumps CO2 into the atmosphere causing global warming. It also causes repiratory diseases in some of those in the areas around the coal fired power station Coal fired generators are becoming stranded assets through divestment of coal assets by investors and banks. Rooftop solar increasingly cuts demand in the most profitable part of the day for coal fired generators. Solar is cheaper than coal. Coal has had its day. Yes coal dust can cause health issues. So can burnt toast. The rest is utter dribbling bollocks.

Lucky that nobody works in burnt toast mines ?

lee wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 4:03pm: You could also quote his mate Mockton ? Who? Dnarever wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 4:03pm: Most of this guys claims have been debunked, it is a load of rubbish. He was likely retired for a reason. Perhaps you can supply a peer-reviewed paper? ;)

He doesn't  produce anything that can be reviewed he is not an active scientist any more and the rubbish he sprouts has been thoroughly debunked by current science time after time.

As you know 4 times as many scientist have advised Trump to stay in the convention.

If Trumpy pulls out the Chinese assume leadership in another area. They do more drilling because of Trumpy then more natural gas wells will be developed further sounding the death knell for coal fired power.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:39pm:

He doesn't  produce anything that can be reviewed he is not an active scientist any more and the rubbish he sprouts has been thoroughly debunked by current science time after time.

Who Mockton? Lindzen?

Of course if they don't produce anything; how is it debunked? ;)

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:43pm:

If Trumpy pulls out the Chinese assume leadership in another area. They do more drilling because of Trumpy then more natural gas wells will be developed further sounding the death knell for coal fired power.

Oh, yay. More plant food. :D :D :D :D :D

Dnarever wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:39pm:

As you know 4 times as many scientist have advised Trump to stay in the convention.

It is amazing how people respond when threatened with being kicked of the public tit; isn't it?