The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support

The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing

Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese

It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

Trump will only make things much worse. A populist with no detailed policies, a neocon etc.

$US20Trn will look small compared to the debt Donald will leave.

It is practically impossible to make things "worse" The united States is terminal...almost

Seeing that former administrations over decades have only 'deep sixed' the American economy it is time to let someone with a totally different point of view have a crack at it

The one thing that separates Trump from all the others that he is a businessman and knows how it 'works'

America is no longer the world cop and America is in a real battle to remain pertinent in this rapidly changing world

There is a saying, "cometh the hour, cometh the man" that's America right now and Trump is that man

How's he going to turn things around, Red?

Let's use this thread to discuss his plans to date, shall we?

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

Yes, the US must be similar to Australia.

Only, we do not have a real Leader.
We only have a 'supervisor/manager.'

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 8:15am:

How's he going to turn things around, Red? Let's use this thread to discuss his plans to date, shall we?

The USA was devestated in 1933. People scrounging on rubbish tips. extreme poverty.

They turned it around off the back of their own grit, guts determination , hard work, and rugged individualism.

they didnt "turn america around" at the height of the depression by introducing "universal health care' or "affirmative action" or "sending money to fund the UN" or "having socialists luvvies on talk shows trash talking their nation".

America , more then any country, understands that the "marketplace is reality" and it understands that "a man who does not bring value to the marketplace is to be regarded as a piece of garbage" and is to be left as a "homeless person to rot in his own toxic negativity" until he "comes to his senses".

america understands that the american people , when they behave like marine drill sargents are capable of anything and when they behave like cowering frightened school girl socialists, they are capable of nothing.

get on board the "Trump Train".

we dont need "plans", we are men of "action".

feel the fear and dive right in.
Trump is the catalyst to wake the sleeping giant.

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:56am:

The one thing that separates Trump from all the others ...

"... the spate of allegations by nearly a dozen women who accused Trump of sexual harassment or assault at the end of his campaign pose a far more serious legal problem, as does the case of a woman who accused Trump of raping her when she was 13 years old."

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

red baron wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 7:56am: The one thing that separates Trump from all the others ... "... the spate of allegations by nearly a dozen women who accused Trump of sexual harassment or assault at the end of his campaign pose a far more serious legal problem, as does the case of a woman who accused Trump of raping her when she was 13 years old."

mothra states that 'what we see in others is actually the faults we see in ourselves '.

I'm begining to think she's onto something.

stop projecting your repressed desires towards 13 yo's onto Trump and seek help

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

Are you stupid? (rhetorical question)  Trumps tax policies would add $10T to the debt in just one term.

idiot

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 8:59am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 8:29am: red baron wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 7:56am: The one thing that separates Trump from all the others ... "... the spate of allegations by nearly a dozen women who accused Trump of sexual harassment or assault at the end of his campaign pose a far more serious legal problem, as does the case of a woman who accused Trump of raping her when she was 13 years old." mothra states that 'what we see in others is actually the faults we see in ourselves '. I'm begining to think she's onto something. stop projecting your repressed desires towards 13 yo's onto Trump and seek help

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/trumpvid-750x400.jpg

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars........

Quote:

US Economy. The U.S. debt to China is $1.05 trillion, as of November 2016. That's 27.8 percent of the $3.77 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.9 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself.

China's secret? It owes Americans nearly $1 trillion




Quote:

The Chinese government doesn’t like to talk about it and the U.S. government doesn’t want to raise it. But decades ago, Beijing defaulted on debt owed to Americans, as well as investors and governments around the world. In one case, it was paid. In the rest it was not. More than 20,000 American investors own this debt. The U.S. government may also own Chinese war debt, unpaid since World War II.

Quote:

China owes the United States $1.3 trillion, as of September 2014, which is the most debt out of all the countries that are its debtors. Japan was the primary debt holder until 2008, but now comes in second place, with $1.2 trillion. Other countries with outstanding U.S. debt include Russia, India and South Korea.

Leverage.....................It's a wonderful word.

duplicate post :o

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 8:26am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 8:15am: How's he going to turn things around, Red? Let's use this thread to discuss his plans to date, shall we? The USA was devestated in 1933. People scrounging on rubbish tips. extreme poverty. They turned it around off the back of their own grit, guts determination , hard work, and rugged individualism. they didnt "turn america around" at the height of the depression by introducing "universal health care' or "affirmative action" or "sending money to fund the UN" or "having socialists luvvies on talk shows trash talking their nation". America , more then any country, understands that the "marketplace is reality" and it understands that "a man who does not bring value to the marketplace is to be regarded as a piece of garbage" and is to be left as a "homeless person to rot in his own toxic negativity" until he "comes to his senses". america understands that the american people , when they behave like marine drill sargents are capable of anything and when they behave like cowering frightened school girl socialists, they are capable of nothing. get on board the "Trump Train". we dont need "plans", we are men of "action". feel the fear and dive right in. Trump is the catalyst to wake the sleeping giant.

Quote:

.................they didnt "turn america around" at the height of the depression by introducing "universal health care' or "affirmative action" or "sending money to fund the UN" or "having socialists luvvies on talk shows trash talking their nation". America , more then any country, understands that the "marketplace is reality" and it understands that "a man who does not bring value to the marketplace is to be regarded as a piece of garbage" and is to be left as a "homeless person to rot in his own toxic negativity" until he "comes to his senses".............

Bravo !!

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 2:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 8:26am: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 8:15am: How's he going to turn things around, Red? Let's use this thread to discuss his plans to date, shall we? The USA was devestated in 1933. People scrounging on rubbish tips. extreme poverty. They turned it around off the back of their own grit, guts determination , hard work, and rugged individualism. they didnt "turn america around" at the height of the depression by introducing "universal health care' or "affirmative action" or "sending money to fund the UN" or "having socialists luvvies on talk shows trash talking their nation". America , more then any country, understands that the "marketplace is reality" and it understands that "a man who does not bring value to the marketplace is to be regarded as a piece of garbage" and is to be left as a "homeless person to rot in his own toxic negativity" until he "comes to his senses". america understands that the american people , when they behave like marine drill sargents are capable of anything and when they behave like cowering frightened school girl socialists, they are capable of nothing. get on board the "Trump Train". we dont need "plans", we are men of "action". feel the fear and dive right in. Trump is the catalyst to wake the sleeping giant. Quote: .................they didnt "turn america around" at the height of the depression by introducing "universal health care' or "affirmative action" or "sending money to fund the UN" or "having socialists luvvies on talk shows trash talking their nation". America , more then any country, understands that the "marketplace is reality" and it understands that "a man who does not bring value to the marketplace is to be regarded as a piece of garbage" and is to be left as a "homeless person to rot in his own toxic negativity" until he "comes to his senses"............. Bravo !!

sometimes the ironic stupidity of your trumpoids is truly stellar. Obama inherited a country on the verge of a DEPRESSION and did exactly what you said he didnt. he turned it around to a booming economy with low unemployment.

idiot.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 8:26am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 8:15am: How's he going to turn things around, Red? Let's use this thread to discuss his plans to date, shall we? The USA was devestated in 1933. People scrounging on rubbish tips. extreme poverty. They turned it around off the back of their own grit, guts determination , hard work, and rugged individualism. they didnt "turn america around" at the height of the depression by introducing "universal health care' or "affirmative action" or "sending money to fund the UN" or "having socialists luvvies on talk shows trash talking their nation". America , more then any country, understands that the "marketplace is reality" and it understands that "a man who does not bring value to the marketplace is to be regarded as a piece of garbage" and is to be left as a "homeless person to rot in his own toxic negativity" until he "comes to his senses". america understands that the american people , when they behave like marine drill sargents are capable of anything and when they behave like cowering frightened school girl socialists, they are capable of nothing. get on board the "Trump Train". we dont need "plans", we are men of "action". feel the fear and dive right in. Trump is the catalyst to wake the sleeping giant.

Sorry? You don't want to discuss Mr Trump's plans?

Why ever not?

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:40am:

Trump will only make things much worse. A populist with no detailed policies, a neocon etc. $US20Trn will look small compared to the debt Donald will leave.

so what has POLICIES done for everyone monk??

you all rave on about POLCIES>.. just where have they all got us???

thats right WE ARE ALL OVER OUR HEADS IN DEBT..

every bloody country that runs on POLICIES>. >:( >:( >:(

Rack one up for poor Cods.

Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES.

How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

The first thing Trump is going to do is spend $20+ billion on the wall, many billions on capture and detention of illegal aliens, and finally, he will reduce taxes for his mates which will drive the budget deficit deeper into the red.

USA is Trumped.

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

Good post Red but lets get specific.
The debt is in US bonds that China holds because of the trade imbalance. That debt must be honored.

However the majority of that 20 trillion is to the BIS which could and should be written off. Iceland wrote off their debt and put the bankers in jail. Iceland has been doing very well since. Use the Icelandic template Donald.

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese

Russia borrows money from the Chinese?
http://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/donald-trump-cpac-russian-flag.jpg

You should get up off your knees you filthy hippie.

http://media.cleveland.com/darcy/photo/07darcy-trump1jpg-1c3020cbbc9582de.jpg

Everyone has forgotten about quantitative easing -

that's right - printing money - shiploads of money.

The Yanks printed shiploads of money & unlike every other country that has tried it
they didn't get hyper inflation.
Their dollar is still strong.
Therefore the Yanks can just getaway with printing money to pay their $20 trillion of debt.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:29am:

Therefore the Yanks can just getaway with printing money to pay their $20 trillion of debt.

Please do shut the f-k up, Blooby. You have zero clue as to how a GDP-based economy functions.

Marla wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:49am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 7:29am: Therefore the Yanks can just getaway with printing money to pay their $20 trillion of debt. Please do shut the f-k up, Bobby. You have zero clue as to how a GDP-based economy functions.

Marla the pot head,
Take your foul mouth elsewhere.
I got straight to the point.

Look at what happened to Zimbabwe when they printed money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Zimbabwe_%24100_trillion_2009_Obverse.jpg/1024px-Zimbabwe_%24100_trillion_2009_Obverse.jpg

Bobby, do you really think Marlon actually knows where Zimbabwe is?

Fuzzball wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 8:04am:

Bobby, do you really think Marlon actually knows where Zimbabwe is?

I forgot - Yanks are poor at geography.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Rack one up for poor Cods. Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES. How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?

The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash....

The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself.

Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......

  https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto!

Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides.

Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild. 

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 9:19am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 9:56pm: Rack one up for poor Cods. Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES. How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China? The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash.... The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself. Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......   https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto! Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides. Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens, Panther. It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia. China actually kept the US solvent through the GFC.

Mr Trump now plans to cut taxes by nearly half and has billions, if not trillions, in infrastructure plans. He also plans to cut Obmacare, which will raise the budgets of the states through Medicaid - a massive cost, and one that could bankrupt a number of states in projected health spending.

Now that Red's opened Mr Trump's economic plans up for debate, let's discuss them. This is very refreshing - every time I've raised this issue, posters run. Threads die.

Let's make sure that doesn't happen here. Let's flesh this one out.

Mr Trump plans to lower revenue and increase spending. How will this make Amerika great again?

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 11:02am:

Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 9:19am: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 9:56pm: Rack one up for poor Cods. Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES. How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China? The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash.... The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself. Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......   https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto! Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides. Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.  The US government is not borrowing from its citizens......  It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia.

:o     Really......


Can you substantiate that with facts/figures/amounts borrowed? I know you didn't just make that up. That would be embarrassing. http://www.s22.site88.net/smileys/chuckle002.gif

Where did you find that the US doesn't sell Bonds to it's Citizens anymore.....as it always used to do?

The Second World War was almost totally financed with U.S. War & Savings Bonds.

:o   When did the U.S. Government eliminate it's very best borrowing income stream instrument
to offset debt?.....  the U.S. Savings Bond (link)  ?  http://www.33sm.ml/smileys/imthinkin6.gif


Pssssst......if you need help let me know, I'll help you find the correct answers so you can stop embarrassing yourself, you just have to promise not to share the sources with the other assholes that can continue embarrassing themselves.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 11:02am:

Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 9:19am: Big Donger wrote on Feb 24th, 2017 at 9:56pm: Rack one up for poor Cods. Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES. How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China? The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash.... The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself. Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......   https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto! Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides. Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.  Mr Trump plans to lower revenue and increase spending. How will this make Amerika great again?

Well, it's been done before.

President Ronald Reagan did it back in the 80's.

By lowering taxes, it caused an up-turn in business & business started hiring more people. People were back to work, & had more money to spend, & more jobs were created through this cycle.

With millions of more people working, there became more people to pay taxes, & so in the end taxes actually brought in more government income at the lower reduced rates..... Whether Trump can pull that off I really don't know in all honesty, but the theory is tried & true.

It was part & parcel of  Supply-Side Economics    ;)

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

Can you substantiate that with facts/figures/amounts borrowed? I know you didn't just make that up. That would be embarrassing.

Oh, I know.


Quote:

The U.S. debt to China is $1.05 trillion, as of November 2016. That's 27.8 percent of the $3.77 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.9 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt? China holds less than the $1.11 trillion held by Japan. Both countries have reduced their holdings in the past year, but China has reduced it faster. China held $1.3 trillion in U.S. debt in November 2013. The reason China is reducing its holdings is to allow its currency, the yuan, to rise. To do that, China has to loosen its peg to the dollar. That makes the yuan more attractive to forex traders in global markets. Long-term, China wants the yuan to replace the U.S. dollar as the world's global currency. China is also responding to accusations of manipulation. For more, see Currency Wars. Before February 2014, China had been strengthening the yuan in response to U.S. pressure. But it reversed course when the dollar rose 25 percent in 2014 and 2015, dragging the yuan with it. China needed to lower the yuan to remain competitive with other emerging markets with free-floating currencies. For more, see Asset Bubble and Yuan to Dollar Conversion. China has consistently held more than $1 trillion in U.S. debt every year since 2010. That's when the Treasury Department changed how it measures the debt. Before July 2010, Treasury reports show China held $843 billion in debt. This makes it difficult to make long-term comparisons. (Source: "Major Holdings of U.S. Treasury Securities," Department of the U.S. Treasury, September 6, 2016.)

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:50pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 1:21pm: Can you substantiate that with facts/figures/amounts borrowed? I know you didn't just make that up. That would be embarrassing. Oh, I know. Quote: The U.S. debt to China is $1.05 trillion, as of November 2016. That's 27.8 percent of the $3.77 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.9 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt? China holds less than the $1.11 trillion held by Japan. Both countries have reduced their holdings in the past year, but China has reduced it faster. China held $1.3 trillion in U.S. debt in November 2013. The reason China is reducing its holdings is to allow its currency, the yuan, to rise. To do that, China has to loosen its peg to the dollar. That makes the yuan more attractive to forex traders in global markets. Long-term, China wants the yuan to replace the U.S. dollar as the world's global currency. China is also responding to accusations of manipulation. For more, see Currency Wars. Before February 2014, China had been strengthening the yuan in response to U.S. pressure. But it reversed course when the dollar rose 25 percent in 2014 and 2015, dragging the yuan with it. China needed to lower the yuan to remain competitive with other emerging markets with free-floating currencies. For more, see Asset Bubble and Yuan to Dollar Conversion. China has consistently held more than $1 trillion in U.S. debt every year since 2010. That's when the Treasury Department changed how it measures the debt. Before July 2010, Treasury reports show China held $843 billion in debt. This makes it difficult to make long-term comparisons. (Source: "Major Holdings of U.S. Treasury Securities," Department of the U.S. Treasury, September 6, 2016.) https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Now, if the USA has debts to other nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars, & they have a 19 trillion dollar debt, who holds the balance of the entire US Debt?

PS....this is not a trick question.....

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:16pm:

Well, it's been done before. President Ronald Reagan did it back in the 80's.

That's right.


Quote:

U.S. Debt by President: By Dollar and Percent Ronald Reagan: Added $1.86 trillion, a 186 percent increase from the $998 billion debt at the end of Carter's last budget, FY 1981. See Did Reaganomics Work?

Yes, let's.


Quote:

President Reagan delivered on each of his four major policy objectives, although not to the extent that he and his supporters had hoped. That's according to William A. Niskanen, a founder of Reaganomics. Niskanen belonged to Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers from 1981 to 1985. Inflation was tamed, but it was thanks to monetary policy, not fiscal policy. Reagan's tax cuts did end the recession. But government spending wasn't lowered, just shifted from domestic programs to defense. The result? The Federal debt almost tripled, from $997 billion in 1981 to $2.857 trillion in 1989. (Source: William A. Niskanen, "Reaganomics," Library of Economics and Liberty.)

https://www.thebalance.com/reaganomics-did-it-work-would-it-today-3305569

Quote:

By lowering taxes, it caused an up-turn in business & business started hiring more people. People were back to work, & had more money to spend, & more jobs were created through this cycle. With millions of more people working, there became more people to pay taxes, & so in the end taxes actually brought in more government income at the lower reduced rates..... Whether Trump can pull that off I really don't know in all honesty, but the theory is tried & true. It was part & parcel of  Supply-Side Economics

And Trump has been criticizing this since Reagan was in power.

Yes, Ronald Reagan's spending sure did increase the debt, but that was for another reason, he engaged the then Soviets in a weapons/military spending race.....he took everything he could, & dared the Soviets to keep pace.....well the rest is history, Reagan demanded Gorbachev to tear down the wall, & because of this spending race, it caused the Soviet to go belly up.....the Soviet soon broke, & were no more........the wall was taken down....by the people of a now free East Germany, not the Soviets......the ultimate defeat......

Now, the last question I posed to you, have you found the answer yet?




The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

Not China.....

Not other Countries, or Foreign Banks....

Who?

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars. They have a 19 trillion dollar debt. Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to? Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

I'm not sure, dear.

I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

[size=11][font=Georgia][i]Yes, Ronald Reagan's spending sure did increase the debt, but that was for another reason, he engaged the then Soviets in a weapons/military spending race.....he took everything he could, & dared the Soviets to keep pace.....well the rest is history,

Yes, and he also cut taxes for the rich - unsustainable tax cuts that even the rich argued should be restored, including a 1980s property developer/celebrity known as Donald J Trump.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 5:58pm: The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars. They have a 19 trillion dollar debt. Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to? Who did the US Government borrow all this money from?? I'm not sure, dear. I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

Anyone else?

It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss.

We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we?

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:34pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 6:02pm: Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 5:58pm: The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars. They have a 19 trillion dollar debt. Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to? Who did the US Government borrow all this money from?? I'm not sure, dear. I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time. Anyone else? It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss. We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we?

Here......read this:

Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 6:34pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 6:02pm: Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 5:58pm: The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars. They have a 19 trillion dollar debt. Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to? Who did the US Government borrow all this money from?? I'm not sure, dear. I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time. Anyone else? It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss. We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we? Here......read this: Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

I did, Panther. Do you want to tell us the answer?

Once you get that off your chest, you might like to help me discuss the solution.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 7:08pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 6:34pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 6:02pm: Panther wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 5:58pm: The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars. They have a 19 trillion dollar debt. Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to? Who did the US Government borrow all this money from?? I'm not sure, dear. I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time. Anyone else? It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss. We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we? Here......read this: Who Owns the U.S. National Debt? I did, Panther. Do you want to tell us the answer? Once you get that off your chest, you might like to help me discuss the solution.

No, why don't you tell us all, it's only fitting, since you said:


Quote:

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens......  It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia.

Now, that you've done some "real" research, what did you find.....who does the USA owe over 15 Trillion Dollars of it's 20 Trillion Dollars of debt to?

It's not the Chinese....it's not foreign banks.....it's not Saudi Arabia or Japan, or any other foreign country....

Who is it?  http://www.33sm.ml/smileys/hitqt9.gif

Is this you trying to discusss Trump's economic plan, Panther?

Is this how you expect the debate in congress to go?

Big Donger wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

Is this you trying to discusss Trump's economic plan, Panther? Is this how you expect the debate in congress to go?

I'm not debating any economic 'plan' yet, I have been......attempting.....to establish if you are aware of the fact that you were incorrect when you said:


Quote:

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens......  It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia.

When, in fact, the US Government borrows the overwhelming majority of it's needed capital from the American People on a regular ongoing basis.

The Fact is that the US Government owes over 15 Trillion, of its 19.9 Trillion Dollar debt to the American People, not to foreign Banks, or Foreign Countries.

True they do borrow from those sources, but close to 75% of it's borrowed capital comes directly from the American People in one form or another.....

➤ ➤ ➤ Once you agree to accept that fact, I'll be glad to further discuss the issues on how America could possibly put a dent into it's huge National Debt if you wish. I'd prefer that over an actual debate, because in debate there are always adversarial issues, which can detract from any beneficial & mutual enrichment. ;)

You don't really want to discuss Trump's plans at all, do you?

Your figures are mistaken, Panther. 45% of US government debt is foreign owned.

We will make Amerika great again, no?

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:40am:

Trump will only make things much worse. A populist with no detailed policies, a neocon etc. $US20Trn will look small compared to the debt Donald will leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtparSnQhFc

Big Donger wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

Your figures are mistaken, Panther. 45% of US government debt is foreign owned.

You have no substantive validation for that statement, so some would say you are no better than a black tongued liar.........I'm leaning in that direction, but I'll withhold my opinions on that......Your statement is just flat out ignorantly false.

Trump is a crook. He won't publicly release his tax returns like other presidential candidates do.

Trump may be broke and filling his pockets with taxpayer free money.

Panther wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:42pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 3:46pm: Your figures are mistaken, Panther. 45% of US government debt is foreign owned. You have no substantive validation for that statement, so some would say you are no better than a black tongued liar.........I'm leaning in that direction, but I'll withhold my opinions on that......Your statement is just flat out ignorantly false.

So Google it. Look at the first link.

Why do I have to telll you everything?

Grow some balls for once in your life, man.

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Trump is a crook. He won't publicly release his tax returns like other presidential candidates do. Trump may be broke and filling his pockets with taxpayer free money.

Do you really think he's there for any other reason?

Could you even imagine it?

where do they find these nutters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsrQ5fTOFY

more freaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbNOqpuMgQ

Another who wants to distract from any economic plans.

I'm curious. Is anyone else?

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Trump is a crook. He won't publicly release his tax returns like other presidential candidates do. Trump may be broke and filling his pockets with taxpayer free money.

The bloated orange douche-bag owes $1.8bn to more than 150 different institutions.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 11:01am:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:48pm: Trump is a crook. He won't publicly release his tax returns like other presidential candidates do. Trump may be broke and filling his pockets with taxpayer free money. The bloated orange douche-bag owes $1.8bn to more than 150 different institutions.

Good point, Greggery. Trump's business model - the one Americans hope will make Amerika great again - is borrowing huge amounts and, when the investment fails, writing it off as a corporate bankruptcy.

It's an elaborate pyramid scheme, and one that worked for Trump because of his other business strategy: branding. Here, Trump believes all publicity is good publicity. The important thing is to get his name out there - divorce settlements, fake PR (Trump used to call the tabloids to spread "fake news" under the name of John Barron), reality TV, all of it. The banks wrote off Trump's 1.8 billion dollar debt to keep the Trump name on Trump's failed casinos and hotels.

For Trump, this validated his personal brand. When Trump called up Forbes to argue his case to be on their rich list, he pretended the Trump name itself was worth billions. In this way, Trump overinflates his wealth.

When Forbes didn't buy it, Trump called them fake news.

This is exactly what Trump plans to do with the US economy. He has, on a number of occasions, argued that the US could print more money because of the "brand" value of the US dollar. His plans to slash taxes and spend big on infrastructure will require enormous government debt. Ultimately, Trump believes that the Trump name alone attached to the White House will restore confidence in the US economy. Presumably, this is what Trump means when he talks up the US economy after a month of being in office.

Trump plays the media in exactly the same way he did in business. He actively spreads fake news, getting staffers and even FBI agents to call reporters and give them "alternative facts" as background. Like Trump's John Barron character, Trump's staffers refuse to go on the record. Like Trump's hissy fits attacking the Forbes rich list, he blames the press for refusing to publish his fibs.

In a paradoxical display of transference, Trump calls them fake news outlets. He has even taken to locking media organizations out of White House press briefings. Their sin?

They published investigative reports on Trump.

Ultimately, Trump has no clear plan to make Amerika great again. His promises are a grab-bag of populist, protectionist and lasses-faire policies, and this is what makes Trump's own party - those who will need to vote for Trump's policies - panic. There is no consistency. Unlike Reagan, Clinton and Obama, there is no economic narrative. Trump, of course, has no plan to bring the congress and senate on side - a plan critical to all administrations. This is, after all, what makes a successful president: the ability to get his/her policies voted in. 

Trump has seen the futility of presidential executive orders. This was probably his biggest lesson in government to date. What Trump will need to survive is a coherent economic plan, along with a legislative plan to get it through government.

poor karnal, still in denial mode.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 11:45am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 27th, 2017 at 11:01am: Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:48pm: Trump is a crook. He won't publicly release his tax returns like other presidential candidates do. Trump may be broke and filling his pockets with taxpayer free money. The bloated orange douche-bag owes $1.8bn to more than 150 different institutions. Good point, Greggery. Trump's business model - the one Americans hope will make Amerika great again - is borrowing huge amounts and, when the investment fails, writing it off as a corporate bankruptcy. It's an elaborate pyramid scheme, and one that worked for Trump because of his other business strategy: branding. Here, Trump believes all publicity is good publicity. The important thing is to get his name out there - divorce settlements, fake PR (Trump used to call the tabloids to spread "fake news" under the name of John Barron), reality TV, all of it. The banks wrote off Trump's 1.8 billion dollar debt to keep the Trump name on Trump's failed casinos and hotels. For Trump, this validated his personal brand. When Trump called up Forbes to argue his case to be on their rich list, he pretended the Trump name itself was worth billions. In this way, Trump overinflates his wealth. When Forbes didn't buy it, Trump called them fake news. This is exactly what Trump plans to do with the US economy. He has, on a number of occasions, argued that the US could print more money because of the "brand" value of the US dollar. His plans to slash taxes and spend big on infrastructure will require enormous government debt. Ultimately, Trump believes that the Trump name alone attached to the White House will restore confidence in the US economy. Presumably, this is what Trump means when he talks up the US economy after a month of being in office. Trump plays the media in exactly the same way he did in business. He actively spreads fake news, getting staffers and even FBI agents to call reporters and give them "alternative facts" as background. Like Trump's John Barron character, Trump's staffers refuse to go on the record. Like Trump's hissy fits attacking the Forbes rich list, he blames the press for refusing to publish his fibs. In a paradoxical display of transference, Trump calls them fake news outlets. He has even taken to locking media organizations out of White House press briefings. Their sin? They published investigative reports on Trump. Ultimately, Trump has no clear plan to make Amerika great again. His promises are a grab-bag of populist, protectionist and lasses-faire policies, and this is what makes Trump's own party - those who will need to vote for Trump's policies - panic. There is no consistency. Unlike Reagan, Clinton and Obama, there is no economic narrative. Trump, of course, has no plan to bring the congress and senate on side - a plan critical to all administrations. This is, after all, what makes a successful president: the ability to get his/her policies voted in.  Trump has seen the futility of presidential executive orders. This was probably his biggest lesson in government to date. What Trump will need to survive is a coherent economic plan, along with a legislative plan to get it through government.

[smiley=beer.gif]

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 3:54pm:

poor karnal, still in denial mode.

Aha. Here's the thread to bring me around, Mistie.

No yawns this time, okay?