The extent of sea ice in the Arctic and Antarctic last month was the lowest on record for January, the UN World Meteorological Organization says, while concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere hit a January record.

"The missing ice in both poles has been quite extraordinary," David Carlson, director of the World Climate Research Programme, told a UN briefing in Geneva on Friday.

"It is a quite strange situation. It's extraordinarily warm in the north, and the sea ice, which is one indicator of planetary warmth, is at a minimum at this point in both hemispheres."

This January, Arctic sea ice averaged 13.38 million square km. The previous record low was just a year ago, in January 2016, when there was 260,000 square km more ice - bigger than the area of the United Kingdom.

Arctic ice was 8.6 per cent below the average for January, while ice in the Antarctic sea, where it is summer, was 22.8 per cent below the average, the WMO said, citing data from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/arctic-and-antarctic-sea-ice-at-record-low/news-story/c003870f0fdeca0dc57eb2f03b54bae8

I wonder how Bolt The Dolt of 2GB/4BC/Murdoch fame will spin this!

Ignore it or get that discredited Dr Howard Bradey on there spinning his theories unchallenged!

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses


Oct. 31, 2015
NASA Study:

Mass Gains of Antarctic Ice Sheet Greater than Losses

Antarctic Peninsula
A new NASA study says that Antarctica is overall accumulating ice. Still, areas of the continent, like the Antarctic Peninsula photographed above, have increased their mass loss in the last decades.
Credits: NASA's Operation IceBridge


A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.

The research challenges the conclusions of other studies, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) 2013 report, which says that Antarctica is overall losing land ice.

According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed   to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.


Zwally’s team calculated that the mass gain from the thickening of East Antarctica remained steady from 1992 to 2008 at 200 billion tons per year, while the ice losses from the coastal regions of West Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula increased by 65 billion tons per year.

“The good news is that Antarctica is not currently contributing to sea level rise, but is taking 0.23 millimeters per year away,” Zwally said

Quote:

Oct. 31, 2015 NASA Study:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:39pm:

The extent of sea ice in the Arctic and Antarctic last month was the lowest on record for January,

What is the period of record? Does it cover the alarm in the early 20th century?

lee wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:05pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 18th, 2017 at 4:39pm: The extent of sea ice in the Arctic and Antarctic last month was the lowest on record for January, What is the period of record? Does it cover the alarm in the early 20th century?

LEE HATES HIS FAMILY: merry christmas to all the big "L"iberal voters out there btw- especially the young and willing to do anything for the spare rental  ::)

Bobby. wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:55pm:

Zwally’s team calculated that the mass gain from the thickening of East Antarctica remained steady from 1992 to 2008 at 200 billion tons per year, while the ice losses from the coastal regions of West Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula increased by 65 billion tons per year.

Bobby you are confusing sea ice with land ice
you also forgot to cut and paste this bit


Quote:

If the losses of the Antarctic Peninsula and parts of West Antarctica continue to increase at the same rate they’ve been increasing for the last two decades, the losses will catch up with the long-term gain in East Antarctica in 20 or 30 years -- I don’t think there will be enough snowfall increase to offset these losses

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/1524732_697444900289041_1786161337_n.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4CYiqY6Ao


watch at 47:50 onwards.

The climate can change drastically in 1 to 3 years.

Bobby, don't start spamming my thread with your ice age rubbish. Keep that crap in your own thread.


Quote:

Definition of irony: Global warming scientists travel to Antarctica to study the melting ice, and get stuck in the ice.

It's only ironic to the ignorant and ill informed

The Antarctic plateau is one of the coldest places on earth and averages about -55 degrees C. Clearly no amount of AGW is going to melt this ice. AGW does however allow the air to hold more moisture, hence ironicly, global warming is actually responsible for more ice on the Antarctic plateau.

The coastal areas of Antarctica are much warmer and are the areas most affected by global warming.

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum

http://i65.tinypic.com/amqzj5.jpg

September 1957 - arctic decreases by 40%
http://i41.tinypic.com/2w6yrlg.jpg

May 1947 - arctic melting
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22429983?searchTerm=climate%20change&searchLimits=

November 1922 - arctic melting
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 11:17am:

The coastal areas of Antarctica are much warmer and are the areas most affected by global warming.

Please show the data.

Like Mawson?

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/image_thumb39.png

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2013/11/08/antarctic-temperature-trends/

All temperature from GISS

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Thanks Ajax for supporting the evidence in my thread.
I noticed your link talked about Antarctic sea ice from back in 2014 where as my link refers to January 2017.
I've cut and pasted this from your link


While the Antarctic sea ice yearly wintertime maximum extent hit record highs from 2012 to 2014 before returning to average levels in 2015, both the Arctic wintertime maximum and its summer minimum extent have been in a sharp decline for the past decades. Studies show that globally, the decreases in Arctic sea ice far exceed the increases in Antarctic sea ice.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.area.antarctic.png

Yep. That sure looks scary. ;)

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 11:17am:

Bobby, don't start spamming my thread with your ice age rubbish. Keep that crap in your own thread. Quote: Definition of irony: Global warming scientists travel to Antarctica to study the melting ice, and get stuck in the ice. It's only ironic to the ignorant and ill informed The Antarctic plateau is one of the coldest places on earth and averages about -55 degrees C. Clearly no amount of AGW is going to melt this ice. AGW does however allow the air to hold more moisture, hence ironicly, global warming is actually responsible for more ice on the Antarctic plateau. The coastal areas of Antarctica are much warmer and are the areas most affected by global warming.

OK -  I understand -

so when we have global warming there's more ice?

Not more sea ice and the Antarctic Plateau is not affected by AGW.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 4:47pm:

Not more sea ice and the Antarctic Plateau is not affected by AGW.

You mean it is not warming globally? Oh horrors. What will they think of next? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 4:55pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:47pm: Not more sea ice and the Antarctic Plateau is not affected by AGW. You mean it is not warming globally? Oh horrors. What will they think of next? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks Lee - Jovial deserves a hard time.

Why is that, Blooby? Because you cannot answer my questions?

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 12:39pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 11:17am: Bobby, don't start spamming my thread with your ice age rubbish. Keep that crap in your own thread. Quote: Definition of irony: Global warming scientists travel to Antarctica to study the melting ice, and get stuck in the ice. It's only ironic to the ignorant and ill informed The Antarctic plateau is one of the coldest places on earth and averages about -55 degrees C. Clearly no amount of AGW is going to melt this ice. AGW does however allow the air to hold more moisture, hence ironicly, global warming is actually responsible for more ice on the Antarctic plateau. The coastal areas of Antarctica are much warmer and are the areas most affected by global warming. OK -  I understand - so when we have global warming there's more ice?

ices aint ices  :o

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

lee wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:55pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:47pm: Not more sea ice and the Antarctic Plateau is not affected by AGW. You mean it is not warming globally? Oh horrors. What will they think of next? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Thanks Lee - Jovial deserves a hard time.

lee knows less than you  ;D

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 5:56pm: lee wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:55pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:47pm: Not more sea ice and the Antarctic Plateau is not affected by AGW. You mean it is not warming globally? Oh horrors. What will they think of next? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Thanks Lee - Jovial deserves a hard time. lee knows less than you  ;D

..atleast he pretends he does because it pays well  :o

Go mining and banking- bugger the kids and the people who actually died for democracy  ::)

Hey, go Turnbull et al.... go business acumen at the same time  :-[

Snow in Vic (and NSW to smaller extent) in summer? Little Ice Age cry dupes.

Real story is a bit more complicated, to do with extremes as the climate warms and there is more energy and moisture in the atmosphere—I do keep mentioning that, don’t I?


Quote:

“Climatologists who deal with the day-to-day data see a change, that this variation will become stronger. There’s more energy in the atmosphere. [My emphasis] “It’s like a pendulum, when you put more energy in, it has a larger effect and variation. This is with a pendulum and the same goes with the climate. If we put more energy in so the variation will get larger.” Ms Ewenz, who has a PhD in meteorology, said we are seeing significant changes in temperatures one week to the next because of rapid shifts in high and low pressure systems around the country. “What makes the difference at the moment is we get all these cold fronts from the southern ocean coming through, which brings the cold air and then the next thing – in the same week and cycle – we get the high pressure cells moving a little bit closer and we get the hot weather from the north,” she said. Victoria and NSW cop snow, heatwave subsides New South Wales residents recovering from more than 100 bushfires across the state last week have been treated to an unseasonable dusting of snow. In the early hours of Monday morning, Victoria’s Mt Hotham and NSW’s alpine regions including Thredbo and Perisher copped “quite substantial” February snow fall with 5-10cm. Australia's wild weather “It’s pretty unusual,” BoM forecaster Dean Stewart told The New Daily. “Sometimes we get it in the summer months but most of the time it occurs in December, sometimes January, but it’s rarer to get it in February. “It’s not unprecedented, but it is fairly rare this time of the year and for it to actually settle on the ground.” NSW forecaster Andrew Haigh explained the reason we see big contrasts in temperature from one state to the next at the end of summer is due of sweeping cold fronts that close out the season. “Sometimes towards the end of summer we tend to get some swings of temperature when we have cold fronts come through,” he told The New Daily. “Basically a cool air mass replaces the warm air mass and that leads to quite big contrasts in temperature between one area and the other even between one day and the next.”

http://thenewdaily.com.au/weather/2017/02/20/australias-wild-weather/

I saw the cold front and southerly winds on the BuMet map. Anybody can.

I have created an Anthropogenic Global Warming thread in General. I will post there articles based on science as and when I see something worthwhile. Two articles have been posted there so far with some of my comments on each article.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 8:40am:

I have created an Anthropogenic Global Warming thread in General. I will post there articles based on science

Where is the science attached to your "kelp" piece?

Sea ice around Antarctica has shrunk about 2 million square kilometres in just three years, swinging from a record large maximum area covered to a record low, in a shift that could have implications for the global climate.

While a late burst in ice cover this spring cannot be ruled out, it appears the sea ice around Antarctica has peaked for the sea at about 18.013 million square kilometres, the smallest maximum extent in the 30-plus years of satellite readings.

For Antarctica, the lowest maximum extent, recorded on September 12, follows a record low minimum sea ice coverage recorded on March 1 after the summer thaw. As with the Arctic, the warming oceans are undercutting sea ice from below, while the warming atmosphere is melting ice from above.

Antarctica's variability, though, makes it a more complex problem to understand than its polar opposite. For instance, the freshwater from melting land-based glaciers more readily freezes than salty sea water, increasing sea ice in some regions of the continent.

While the climate change signal is much clearer in the northern latitudes - where longer-term records show a relatively steady retreat of Arctic sea ice - evidence of global warming's impact around Antarctica is also showing up in the observations.

Scientists are less sure of the trends in sea ice volume in the southern hemisphere than in the north, given the difficultly satellites have in distinguishing sea ice from the snow that has accumulated on it, for instance.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/attacked-from-two-sides-antarctic-sea-ice-hits-another-record-low-20170926-gyouuc.html

Those that were trumpeting the record sea ice of 2014 have gone strangely quiet. But then denialists always have been known for cherry picking data

https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/global-sea-ice

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/easyjet-electric-planes-wright-electric-flights

""This combination of factors, all these things coming together in a single year, was basically the 'perfect storm,' for Antarctic sea ice," said corresponding author Malte Stuecker, a UW postdoctoral researcher in atmospheric sciences. "While we expect a slow decline in the future from global warming, we don't expect such a rapid decline in a single year to happen very often."

The area of sea ice around Antarctica at its peak in late 2016 was 2 million square kilometers (about 800,000 square miles) less than the average from the satellite record. Statistically, this is three standard deviations away from the average—an event that would be expected to occur randomly just once every 300 years.

The record low was not predicted by climate scientists, so UW researchers looked at the bigger picture in ocean and atmospheric data to explain why it happened.

The previous year, 2015-16, had a very strong El Niño in the tropical Pacific Ocean. Nicknamed the "Godzilla El Nino," the event was similar to other monster El Niños in 1982-83 and 1997-98. Unlike the 1997-98 event, however, it was only followed by a relatively weak La Niña in 2016.

Far away from the tropics, the tropical El Niño pattern creates a series of high- and low-pressure zones that cause unusually warm ocean temperatures in Antarctica's eastern Ross, Amundsen and Bellingshausen seas. But in 2016, when no strong La Niña materialized, researchers found that these unusually warm surface pools lingered longer than usual and affected freeze-up of seawater the following season.

"The study was published Aug. 24 in Geophysical Research Letters."

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-record-low-antarctic-sea-ice-due.html#jCp


So how much was due to climate change? What to believe a peer-reviewed paper or an opinion piece?

Oh FGS Monk is back....  just when things were getting more sensible.

So the scientists don't understand weather or climate change...  goodo.

Told you Monk. :D :D :D :D :D

lee wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 9:53pm:

So how much was due to climate change? What to believe a peer-reviewed paper or an opinion piece?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You do realise that your peer reviewed paper is talking about 2016 not 2017 don't you.

But it still has some interesting things to say


Quote:

While winter sea ice in the Arctic is declining so dramatically that ships can now navigate those waters without any icebreaker escort, the scene in the Southern Hemisphere is very different. Sea ice area around Antarctica has actually increased slightly in winter—that is, until last year. Scientists predict Antarctica's ocean will be one of the last places on Earth to experience global warming. Eventually the Southern Ocean's surface will begin to warm, however, and then sea ice there will begin its more long-term decline.

Your peer reviewed article would seem to support global warming. Or are you just going to cherry pick bits out that support your agenda

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

You do realise that your peer reviewed paper is talking about 2016 not 2017 don't you.

yes. Did you think that the "melt" happened during winter 2017? ;)


The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

Your peer reviewed article would seem to support global warming.

Of course. Now all you have to do is link it to ANTHROPOGENIC Global Warming.

You do know El Nino's are natural? NOT AGW.

Edit: BTW - Did you see the paper was published Aug 2017?

lee wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:41pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:05pm: You do realise that your peer reviewed paper is talking about 2016 not 2017 don't you. yes. Did you think that the "melt" happened during winter 2017? ;)

Nice red herring lee. Using your old tactic of obfuscation. You know very well that the article is talking about spring 2016. A full year ago. It has no relation to spring 2017.


lee wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:41pm:

Of course. Now all you have to do is link it to ANTHROPOGENIC Global Warming. You do know El Nino's are natural? NOT AGW.

Anyone would think we had never had an el nino before. It finished over a year and a half ago lee. It's time to move on.

It's interesting though that you admit the globe is warming, yet you still accuse scientists of faking the temperature data and in other threads you claim it's not warming. That's why you are such a fraud lee, you are always flip flopping and changing your mind to suit your agenda.

Tell me this lee, if the earth is warming like you admit. Why would the scientists at Nasa, BOM and the Met office put their careers in jeopardy by faking temperature data? They wouldn't need to.

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:41pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:05pm: You do realise that your peer reviewed paper is talking about 2016 not 2017 don't you. yes. Did you think that the "melt" happened during winter 2017? ;) Nice red herring lee. Using your old tactic of obfuscation. You know very well that the article is talking about spring 2016. A full year ago. It has no relation to spring 2017. lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:41pm: Of course. Now all you have to do is link it to ANTHROPOGENIC Global Warming. You do know El Nino's are natural? NOT AGW. Anyone would think we had never had an el nino before. It finished over a year and a half ago lee. It's time to move on. It's interesting though that you admit the globe is warming, yet you still accuse scientists of faking the temperature data and in other threads you claim it's not warming. That's why you are such a fraud lee, you are always flip flopping and changing your mind to suit your agenda. Tell me this lee, if the earth is warming like you admit. Why would the scientists at Nasa, BOM and the Met office put their careers in jeopardy by faking temperature data? They wouldn't need to.

accuse scientists of faking the temperature data


this is a proven fact.

The scientists are paid to find evidence of global warming not
to be unbiased and impartial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ItmaEvX77Y


In this video Mr. Casey exposes the global warming fraud and brings your attention to an ice age threat which is threatening our planet and the peak point is about 2030 - 2031. This video has been uploaded with Mr. John Casey's written permission and is copyright of Mr. John Casey. Mr. John L. Casey is the former White House space program adviser, consultant to NASA Headquarters, and space shuttle engineer. He is the President of Space and Science Research Center http://www.spaceandscience.net He is one of America's most successful climate change researchers and climate prediction experts. Mr. Casey is the leading advocate in the US for a national and international plan to prepare for the next climate change to one of a dangerous cold climate era. This new cold era is caused by a historic decline in the Sun's energy output, what he calls a "solar hibernation." He is the author of the internationally acclaimed climate science book, "Cold Sun" which describes the rationale for understanding why global warming has ended and the effects of the new cold climate era.

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

Nice red herring lee. Using your old tactic of obfuscation. You know very well that the article is talking about spring 2016. A full year ago. It has no relation to spring 2017.

Published Aug 2017. So out of date. ;)


The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

Anyone would think we had never had an el nino before. It finished over a year and a half ago lee.

Strange they were complaining about the coral bleaching in April.

You do understand El Nino, ocean water temperature?


The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

It's interesting though that you admit the globe is warming, yet you still accuse scientists of faking the temperature data and in other threads you claim it's not warming.

So which "data" are you talking about. Warming? or CO2 induce warming? ;)


The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

Tell me this lee, if the earth is warming like you admit. Why would the scientists at Nasa, BOM and the Met office put their careers in jeopardy by faking temperature data? They wouldn't need to.

Never heard of "rate of change". People keep saing the late 20th century warming is faster than anywhere else.

So tell me about BoM and homogenisation. You know the homogenisation that can't be replicated, therefore isn't science. It was world's best practice in 2015. It wasn't science then and it isn't science now.

Homogenisation on places up to 250km away. I know from experience two streets away can be different. Different microclimate, different elevation. Think suburban park and shopping centre car park as extremes. ;)

https://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_stddev_timeseries.png

Antarctic sea ice. Started about the bottom of two standard deviation, currently about 2 std dev.


The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 27^th, 2017 at 9:14pm:

Sea ice around Antarctica has shrunk about 2 million square kilometres in just three years,

I thought hey were only talking about 2017?

Did you truly think that Arctic ice or Antarctic ice should remain static? That it should only ever increase?

I just replied to Jovial on his forum but I might as well post it here too:



Jovial,
in all sincerity -
you don't understand much about climate change.

You didn't understand the idea of an under-damped closed loop control system
which appears to be the way our climate works.
At least my background in engineering gives me more of an understanding.

How can I put it simply?

When you disturb an under-damped system it will oscillate before resting at it's final value.
The problem is that the climate is being constantly disturbed by:
the Sun
volcanoes
CO2
galactic cosmic rays
and maybe many other variables we know nothing about.

These oscillations hide the underlying data.

An even easier example for you is the Gulf stream -
where you try to warm part of the planet & it fights back
by stopping the gulf stream & causing an ice age in Europe.
That's an example of negative feedback.

A positive feedback would be warming the tundra in Siberia & releasing methane -
a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2.

The 31 page paper I posted the link for goes into a lot more detail and until
you can grasp that you're not in the starting line.

The climate has always been changing & it has led to extremes like the maunder minimum -
quite recent in global history.
Another Maunder minimum would be a climate catastrophe
with billions of people dying.

cheers
sir Bobby.

https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/global-sea-ice

FraudulentAFL wrote on Sep 28^th, 2017 at 5:09pm:

https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/global-sea-ice

Ooh 1978. Colour me unimpressed. ;)

Never mind Unforgiven. Nice try.

lee wrote on Sep 28^th, 2017 at 6:03pm:

FraudulentAFL wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 5:09pm: https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/global-sea-ice Ooh 1978. Colour me unimpressed. ;) Never mind Unforgiven. Nice try.

You're a joke buddy!

:D