Quote:

WIKILEAKS: ‘DESTABILIZATION CAMPAIGN’ RESPONSIBLE FOR FLYNN RESIGNATION Online publishing organization points finger at intelligence community, Democrats and media A “destabilization campaign” by opponents of President Donald Trump is responsible for National Security Adviser Michael T. Flynn’s resignation, WikiLeaks alleged Tuesday. The online publishing organization specifically blamed the intelligence community, the Democratic Party and the media in a tweet surrounding the incident. “Trump’s National Security Advisor Michael Flynn resigns after destabilization campaign by US spies, Democrats, press,” WikiLeaks stated. Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, called the back-and-forth between the Trump White House and U.S. intelligence Wednesday a “battle for dominance.” “Amazing battle for dominance is playing out between the elected US govt & the IC who consider themselves to be the permanent government,” he said. Flynn announced his resignation Monday after reports indicated he misled Vice President Mike Pence and other administration officials on the details of a December phone call with Sergey Kislyak, Russia’s ambassador to the United States. Flynn had originally denied discussing sanctions, imposed by the Obama administration over allegations of election-related hacking, but a spokesman for Flynn later stated that he “couldn’t be certain that the topic never came up.” “Unfortunately, because of the fast pace of events, I inadvertently briefed the Vice President Elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the Russian ambassador,” Flynn wrote in his resignation letter. “I have sincerely apologized to the President and the Vice President, and they have accepted my apology.” Information on the phone call became available to journalists at the New York Times and the Washington Post due to leaks from former and current U.S. government officials. The leaks included a description by intelligence officials of the conversation thanks to an FBI wiretap of Kislyak’s phone. Other leaks revealed F.B.I. agents interviewed Flynn about the call just days into Trump’s presidency and believed he was “not entirely forthcoming.” In an interview with the Daily Caller released Tuesday, Flynn admitted to discussing the 35 expelled Russian diplomats during the call but denied more specific mention was made of sanctions. “It was basically, ‘Look, I know this happened. We’ll review everything.,’” Flynn stated. “I never said anything such as, ‘We’re going to review sanctions,’ or anything like that.” Flynn also expressed concern over the leaks themselves, labeling the actions a “criminal act.” “You call them leaks. It’s a criminal act. This is a crime. It’s not just a wink and a nod,” Flynn said. Trump similarly condemned the leaks Tuesday, asking why so many “illegal leaks” were emanating from Washington D.C.

well... we all knew that this was going to happen...

just who is Running the US???

or who THINK they are running the US and its foreign policy??

this just goes to show how corrupt the system is in the US... the Kennedy's new how corrupt it was and was going to take it down... and look what happened to him...

im also hearing whispers from ex Secret Services Members who say insiders are saying that they are going to go Full Nuclear on the Trump administration and that Trump will spend the rest of his life behind bars...

this is an absolute disgrace...  >:(

with also whispers that Crooked Hillary Clinton is priming herself for another run at the top job...

fair dinkum...  >:(

and have a look at what this fatsackofshit is saying on his "Facebook"


Quote:

In a deranged Facebook rant, far-left film maker Michael Moore has called for Hillary Clinton to be installed as president and failing that, the presidential election to be held all over again.

these nut cases just never give up.. don't they have jobs?

It's amazing the lengths people are going to to absolve Trump and his administration of any and all responsibility while giving them credit for anything positive they can manufacture or take credit from others actions, or anything positive they can spin from their very obvious and very public mistakes.

I used to have far more respect for wikileaks.  They used to be about the truth and getting the facts out from behind the black walls of sanitised information, but now they've picked a side and delved into politics.

They have every right to operate however ever they want, but they should at least be honest about their intentions.

But I get it, at least until they regain their composure and return to their roots, they've only got gains to make by supporting Trump, especially over Hillary for Assange's own personal well being, but we've seen how quickly Trump will cast aside those close to him, or even those who've helped him once he sees no further use for them.

It's a shame that most Americans won't realise they fit into that last category of people Trump will just exploit until it's too late. 

Actually, what am I saying, it already is too late...

What's your source, Mechanic? And why are Assange's thoughts some form of "evidence"?

Of course the spies are leaking against Trump. Their agencies have uncovered evidence that Trump's campaign team actively worked with Russia, who hacked the Democrats. Nothing like this has ever been uncovered before - a candidate for US president consorting with US enemies in return for favours once elected - a staffer (Flynn) telling the Russians sanctions would be "reviewed" if Trump got in - evidence of the Russians blackmailing said candidate to influence US policy.

Can you imagine? "The Establishment" are indeed fighting back, and yes, leaking this sort of intelligence is illegal.

But I'd say it needs to be in the public sphere, wouldn't you? It's called "draining the swamp".

Quote:

Evidence of the Russians blackmailing said candidate to influence US policy.

The problem is, that this is a figment of your imagination. 

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 7:57am:

It's amazing the lengths people are going to to absolve Trump and his administration of any and all responsibility while giving them credit for anything positive they can manufacture or take credit from others actions, or anything positive they can spin from their very obvious and very public mistakes. I used to have far more respect for wikileaks.  They used to be about the truth and getting the facts out from behind the black walls of sanitised information, but now they've picked a side and delved into politics. They have every right to operate however ever they want, but they should at least be honest about their intentions.

Assange is pretty honest about his intentions, Sad. He was never a fan of the Obama administration. Not only did Hillary say she wanted his head on a spike, Obama advanced US spying and covert action. The powers of agencies like the NSA grew out of control under Obama, and Obama was instrumental in this.

And now, here we have the NSA bugging the Trump campaign's calls with foreign agents. This is how powerful the NSA has become.

Not only does Assange have personal reasons, but he has good ethical reasons to expose the work of Obama.

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 9:57am:

Quote: Evidence of the Russians blackmailing said candidate to influence US policy. The problem is, that this is a figment of your imagination.

True, Honky, I imagined it after reading a spook's report.

Wow! Trump is orchestrating a destabilization campaign against himself?

I was wrong! I perceived that Trump couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

... wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 9:57am: Quote: Evidence of the Russians blackmailing said candidate to influence US policy. The problem is, that this is a figment of your imagination.  True, Honky, I imagined it after reading a spook's report.

No you didnt.

The allegation was that he "may potentially be vulnerable" to blackmail, but by sheer force of will, youve changed that to "has been blackmailed".

Do you understand the difference between things that potentially may happen in future, and things that have happened?

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 10:23am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:08am: ... wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 9:57am: Quote: Evidence of the Russians blackmailing said candidate to influence US policy. The problem is, that this is a figment of your imagination.  True, Honky, I imagined it after reading a spook's report. No you didnt. The allegation was that he "may potentially be vulnerable" to blackmail, but by sheer force of will, youve changed that to "has been blackmailed". Do you understand the difference between things that potentially may happen in future, and things that have happened?

That's true, Honky. He "may potentially be vulnerable to blackmail" after the Ruskies filmed him having a bit of fun in one of their hotel rooms.

I lied. Cunning, no?

Indeed you did lie, but that is not cunning because it is precisely what is expected of you.

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Wow! Trump is orchestrating a destabilization campaign against himself? I was wrong! I perceived that Trump couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.

Good to know, Forgiven. Your perceptions were obviously wrong. Every action Trump has taken in the White House to date has been overwhelmingly successful. Everything has gone according to plan.

Mr Trump has certainly shaken things up, no?

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 10:33am:

Indeed you did lie, but that is not cunning because it is precisely what is expected of you.

And if it wasn't for sleuths like you, I would have gotten away with it.

Foiled again.

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 7:28am:

... Trump will spend the rest of his life behind bars...

The best possible outcome for everyone involved.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 10:39am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 7:28am: ... Trump will spend the rest of his life behind bars... The best possible outcome for everyone involved.

MISS QUOTE AGAIN BROKEN NOSE

well... we all knew that this was going to happen...

just who is Running the US???

or who THINK they are running the US and its foreign policy??

this just goes to show how corrupt the system is in the US... the Kennedy's new how corrupt it was and was going to take it down... and look what happened to him...

im also hearing whispers from ex Secret Services Members who say insiders are saying that they are going to go Full Nuclear on the Trump administration and that Trump will spend the rest of his life behind bars...

this is an absolute disgrace...  Angry

with also whispers that Crooked Hillary Clinton is priming herself for another run at the top job...

fair dinkum...  Angry
Back to top      

bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 10:58am:

fair dinkum...  Angry

Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves.

He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life.

There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has.

It's no wonder he has such an inflated opinion of himself, but that still doesn't explain his almost to the point of being translucently thin skin.

Perhaps that's the key, be a whiny little man baby and keep telling lies about the situations painting them as occurring how you'd wished as if some sort of positive affirmation in the mirror until people start listening.

If I had to sum up his behaviour that'd be it.

Perhaps now that he's not just some cheating business man wanting everyone to think he's a playboy and on the same level as those genuine self made Billionaires who do actually give back and instead (or, as well as) now the President with the worlds eyes on him and (hopefully) the demands, expectations and accountability that comes with that, we might see him get what he deserves for once in his life.

Given what he's been able to get away with so far however, I doubt it.

fair dinkum...  Angry indeed.

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 11:39am:

bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has.

Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation.

Everybody's talking about it.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 12:03pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 11:39am: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has. Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation. Everybody's talking about it.

What you should have said'  ALL THE LEFT WING SUCFUX ARECRYING OVER IT    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 12:03pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 11:39am: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has. Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation. Everybody's talking about it.

Everybody talking about it = the blind leading thd blind.

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 12:19pm:

Everybody talking about it = the blind leading thd blind.

Or it was a jab at using one of Trump's own favourite phrases against him, you know, "everybody's talking about it" like that legitimises what ever lie or misinformation he's trying to push...

I wonder why it doesn't apply in this case, but does in all the times Trump uses it?

Seems like I struck a nerve given your childish Trump like temper tantrum along with bwood's. 

Attack all those who think different to you rather than their message.

Just shows how weak you really are.

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 1:33pm:

... wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:19pm: Everybody talking about it = the blind leading thd blind. Or it was a jab at using one of Trump's own favourite phrases against him, you know, "everybody's talking about it" like that legitimises what ever lie or misinformation he's trying to push...

Ah.

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 1:33pm:

... wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:19pm: Everybody talking about it = the blind leading thd blind. Or it was a jab at using one of Trump's own favourite phrases against him, you know, "everybody's talking about it" like that legitimises what ever lie or misinformation he's trying to push... I wonder why it doesn't apply in this case, but does in all the times Trump uses it? Seems like I struck a nerve given your childish Trump like temper tantrum along with bwood's.  Attack all those who think different to you rather than their message. Just shows how weak you really are.

It wasnt your lie i called out - why the temper tantrum? 

Do you think lies are ok so long as they are against Trump?

Sadly, the answer is very likely yes.

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 1:45pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 1:33pm: ... wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:19pm: Everybody talking about it = the blind leading thd blind. Or it was a jab at using one of Trump's own favourite phrases against him, you know, "everybody's talking about it" like that legitimises what ever lie or misinformation he's trying to push... I wonder why it doesn't apply in this case, but does in all the times Trump uses it? Seems like I struck a nerve given your childish Trump like temper tantrum along with bwood's.  Attack all those who think different to you rather than their message. Just shows how weak you really are. It wasnt your lie i called out - why the temper tantrum?  Do you think lies are ok so long as they are against Trump? Sadly, the answer is very likely yes.

No, Honky, they're only okay if you're getting back the leftards.

"Progressives".

bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:03pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 11:39am: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has. Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation. Everybody's talking about it. What you should have said'  ALL THE LEFT WING SUCFUX ARECRYING OVER IT    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You don't even know what a lefty is!

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 2:42pm:

bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:09pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:03pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 11:39am: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has. Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation. Everybody's talking about it. What you should have said'  ALL THE LEFT WING SUCFUX ARECRYING OVER IT    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You don't even know what a lefty is!

Exactly. Maybe Mistie could fill him in.

"Progressives".

---

The only thing to come out of this, is that Assange continues to demonstrate his compulsive attention seeking. Scoop, or no scoop.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 2:50pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 2:42pm: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:09pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:03pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 11:39am: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has. Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation. Everybody's talking about it. What you should have said'  ALL THE LEFT WING SUCFUX ARECRYING OVER IT    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You don't even know what a lefty is! Exactly. Maybe Mistie could fill him in. "Progressives".

What about Soren? He studies or something  ;D

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 3:26pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 2:50pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 2:42pm: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:09pm: Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 12:03pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 11:39am: bwood1946 wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 10:58am: fair dinkum...  Angry Under normal circumstances, Trump is the kind of person, and politician, who you just feed more rope and let them hang themselves. He however, seems impervious to his own actions.  It's quite amazing.  To me, that is his real skill, he's managed to dodge almost all accountability his entire life. There is literally nobody else who could act like he does, both in business and in politics and come out as he has. Exactly. People are saying Mr Trump's done a deal with the Devil. It's the only explanation. Everybody's talking about it. What you should have said'  ALL THE LEFT WING SUCFUX ARECRYING OVER IT    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You don't even know what a lefty is! Exactly. Maybe Mistie could fill him in. "Progressives". What about Soren? He studies or something  ;D

Well yes, University of Balogney.

Or something.

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 1:45pm:

It wasnt your lie i called out - why the temper tantrum?  Do you think lies are ok so long as they are against Trump? Sadly, the answer is very likely yes.

I find it interesting each time you post as I learn more and more of your style and what you're attempting to do.

You're one of those posters, much like Trump himself, where it's tough to tell if you genuinely believe the things you say or if you're simply trolling.

And part of that is on me.  I'm used to seeing those who attack other posters so they can ignore their message, use the ever growing collection of "cuckservative" attacks and generally do a poor job at trying to be clever in using their words against them, I'm used to them eventually revealing far too much of their hand and answering the question even by accident if they're just another misinformed angry person or if they've being wilfully ignorant to the facts because they're far too eager and happy to accept what ever information suits their own bias, no questions asked and discount everything else as fake, or they're simply in it for the lulz.

It can be easy to fall for the bias trap, but with the access to so much information, it's not hard to fact check claims.  All you need to do is check the sources that are provided (if there are any) and then make sure the conclusion being drawn from said sources are even remotely accurate.

You've not demonstrated that, not once.  You seem happy to demand it from others but seem unwilling, or unable to do so in return.

This is why it's hard to tell where you reside in the misinformed/wilfully ignorant/Troll trinity.

I'd be willing to forgive those misinformed, even those wilfully ignorant in the hopes that they would take the time to educate and enlighten themselves to their likely unconscious bias and disconnection from reality, but as much as I try, I cannot afford such sympathy to Trolls.

This is what makes you so interesting.  You seem so quick to anger, so quick to defend the likes of Trump no matter what and so eager to attack posters who don't fall into line with your message.  I'll reserve judgement for now, but boy if it quacks like a duck...

Back on topic, even if everything Wikileaks is claiming is true, didn't we just come out of 8 years of the Republicans trying their hardest to undermine and weaken the Obama administration and more recently experience the Russian attempts to destablise the entire election process?

Why is it that these types of actions now only seem to be an issue if it's happening to Trump? 

He's doing a far greater job than anyone else at undermining or destabilising his own house, he doesn't need any help, real or otherwise.

That poor diddums.  Who would have thought the Oval Office would need a safe space.  I guess those before Trump were just greater men then he.

Quote:

Back on topic, even if everything Wikileaks is claiming is true, didn't we just come out of 8 years of the Republicans trying their hardest to undermine and weaken the Obama administration and more recently experience the Russian attempts to destablise the entire election process?

No, they didnt and this is why so many disgruntled voters turned out for Trump.  The republucans, supposedly the opposition, gave obama pretty much everything he wanted, much to thr dismay of many of their voters.  The factions of the republican party that were undermining trump.in the primaries were only nominally different from democrats, leaving a massive portion of the electorate feeling unrepresented and disgruntled.  These were the forgotten ones who turned out for Trump.

But the old guard are not happy with them having found a voice - they liked it better when the two party charade was fully functional, so theyre now colluding across party lines, to screw the peasants back down and get the old monopoly back.

I remember hearing the exact same complainrs here, from people on both left and thd right, about how no matter which party wins, the people lose, so its with great bemusement that i now watch those same people becoming the staunchest defenders of the old system and praying for that situation to return.  Its a little hard to respect people who have wished for an opportunity  for so long, only to be too afraid to take it when it is offered.

This podcast is with Mike Baker, who is a former CIA operative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUfe_p-cHqk

He addresses the Russian hacking angle, basically he says "attempting to influence" elections has always been a feature in every election and is barely even noteworthy, but "hacking" the election is complete rubbish.

The media is attempting to conflate the two, to delegitimise Trumps presidency.  As far as I'm concerned, the forgotten voters deserve to be heard, and the corporate powers who have screwed them down for decades deserve to be out in the cold, at least until they learn to play nice.  They don't seem willing to play nice yet - don't make the mistake of thinking they are your friends. They're not your friends, they are your masters, and they're telling you to get back on the plantation.

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 4:48pm:

Quote: Back on topic, even if everything Wikileaks is claiming is true, didn't we just come out of 8 years of the Republicans trying their hardest to undermine and weaken the Obama administration and more recently experience the Russian attempts to destablise the entire election process? No, they didnt and this is why so many disgruntled voters turned out for Trump.  The republucans, supposedly the opposition, gave obama pretty much everything he wanted, much to thr dismay of many of their voters.  The factions of the republican party that were undermining trump.in the primaries were only nominally different from democrats, leaving a massive portion of the electorate feeling unrepresented and disgruntled.  These were the forgotten ones who turned out for Trump. But the old guard are not happy with them having found a voice - they liked it better when the two party charade was fully functional, so theyre now colluding across party lines, to screw the peasants back down and get the old monopoly back. I remember hearing the exact same complainrs here, from people on both left and thd right, about how no matter which party wins, the people lose, so its with great bemusement that i now watch those same people becoming the staunchest defenders of the old system and praying for that situation to return.  Its a little hard to respect people who have wished for an opportunity  for so long, only to be too afraid to take it when it is offered.

how can you say that with a straight face?  They blocked virtually everything including the SCOTUS nomination which was empty for over a year.

you are like trump. You just MAKE IT UP AS YOU Go and hope people wont notice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY7EZdPAfM4


Quote:

"The President, I think, has become convinced that the economy is not likely to be much better a year from now, so he has started to campaign 13 months early, and he's trying to convince the American people that it's anybody else's fault but his that we're where we are." McConnell said. It must be the fault of those Republicans in Congress. It must be the fault of those rich people. It must be the fault of those people on Wall Street. I don't think the American people are going to fall for it. He's been president now for three years -- for three years. We've run the national debt up 35 percent as he's tried to prime the pump and borrow and spend our way into prosperity. I think complaints about Congress fall on deaf ears. He owned the Congress for the first two years. They did everything he wanted. Everything. The only thing they forgot to do -- I don't know why they overlooked this -- they forgot to raise taxes. But they did everything else. They borrowed, they spent, they over-regulated. And all of those policies are in place and you can see how much it's done for the economy: 1.5 million jobs lost since the first stimulus. Now he's coming back and asking us to do it again. You all have heard this before, but it's one of my favorite sayings: At home we say, "there's no education the second kick of a mule." We've already done this. We tried it. It failed. So I know he's desperately interested in trying to blame anybody else. But he's the President of the United States. He set the agenda. He got everything he wanted. And it didn't work. And so I think next year the American people will have to decide whether they want more of the same, or whether they want to go in a different direction."

Honky telling fibs?

Never. Like the old boy, Honky has intelligence and integrity.

Honky would never lie about the bi-partisan support the Republican Party so selflessly granted to Obama, it's just s fact.

You know, an alternative fact. We're all entitled to an opinion, you know.

I'm pretty sure you were one of these that I was talking about here karnal:


longweekend58 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

I remember hearing the exact same complaints here, from people on both left and the right, about how no matter which party wins, the people lose

Yet here you are, apparently denying that in a two party system, each party is just another side of the same coin.  It applies to the situation in Australia just as much as in America.

If I'm mistaken, please say so.

You're mistaken, Honky. In Amerika, people from both major parties hate Trump, and of course they would.

For the conservatives, Trump stands against conservative and family values, against both free trade and fiscal restraint, and against many parts of the constitution he's sworn in to defend. For the liberals, well - you know.

Trump's not on many people's dance cards, Honky. How can such a reviled and unpopular leader be expected to govern?

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 7:28pm:

You're mistaken, Honky. In Amerika, people from both major parties hate Trump, and of course they would. For the conservatives, Trump stands against conservative and family values, against both free trade and fiscal restraint, and against many parts of the constitution he's sworn in to defend. For the liberals, well - you know. Trump's not on many people's dance cards, Honky. How can such a reviled and unpopular leader be expected to govern?

Ahh but the key detail that you are omitting is that most PARTY PEOPLE are against him.  You know, the rusted-on voters - the morons who get sold out time after time after time, only to line up and say "thank you sir, may I have another?" while everyone else realises the only way not to lose a rigged game is not to play, so they check out?

Well, those people are checking back in, they want Trump and they number enough to get him.  The idiocracy took a major blow but the old powers needed idiots, and while there are quite a few lining up to do their bidding, people power won the day.   The war is still on though - which side are you on?

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 7:35pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 16th, 2017 at 7:28pm: You're mistaken, Honky. In Amerika, people from both major parties hate Trump, and of course they would. For the conservatives, Trump stands against conservative and family values, against both free trade and fiscal restraint, and against many parts of the constitution he's sworn in to defend. For the liberals, well - you know. Trump's not on many people's dance cards, Honky. How can such a reviled and unpopular leader be expected to govern? Ahh but the key detail that you are omitting is that most PARTY PEOPLE are against him.  You know, the rusted-on voters - the nice people who get sold out time after time after time, only to line up and say "thank you sir, may I have another?" while everyone else realises the only way not to lose a rigged game is not to play, so they check out? Well, those people are checking back in, they want Trump and they number enough to get him.  The idiocracy took a major blow but the old powers needed idiots, and while there are quite a few lining up to do their bidding, people power won the day.   The war is still on though - which side are you on?

The people's, Homo. You?

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 7:57am:

It's amazing the lengths people are going to to absolve Trump and his administration of any and all responsibility while giving them credit for anything positive they can manufacture or take credit from others actions, or anything positive they can spin from their very obvious and very public mistakes. I used to have far more respect for wikileaks.  They used to be about the truth and getting the facts out from behind the black walls of sanitised information, but now they've picked a side and delved into politics. They have every right to operate however ever they want, but they should at least be honest about their intentions. But I get it, at least until they regain their composure and return to their roots, they've only got gains to make by supporting Trump, especially over Hillary for Assange's own personal well being, but we've seen how quickly Trump will cast aside those close to him, or even those who've helped him once he sees no further use for them. It's a shame that most Americans won't realise they fit into that last category of people Trump will just exploit until it's too late.  Actually, what am I saying, it already is too late...

I used to have far more respect for wikileaks.


How long has be been locked up in that embassy ? He wants to con his mate Trump into saving him.

Quote:

A “destabilization campaign” by opponents of President Donald Trump is responsible for National Security Adviser Michael T. Flynn’s resignation

See that half the Trump team were having meetings with the Russians through the election campaign, no the Russians had no involvement and the Trump team knew nothing about it.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

Quote: A “destabilization campaign” by opponents of President Donald Trump is responsible for National Security Adviser Michael T. Flynn’s resignation See that half the Trump team were having meetings with the Russians through the election campaign, no the Russians had no involvement and the Trump team knew nothing about it.

What are you talking about?

... wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 7:35pm:

Ahh but the key detail that you are omitting is that most PARTY PEOPLE are against him.  You know, the rusted-on voters - the nice people who get sold out time after time after time, only to line up and say "thank you sir, may I have another?" while everyone else realises the only way not to lose a rigged game is not to play, so they check out? Well, those people are checking back in, they want Trump and they number enough to get him.  The idiocracy took a major blow but the old powers needed idiots, and while there are quite a few lining up to do their bidding, people power won the day.   The war is still on though - which side are you on?

I really wonder why people will tie themselves in knots trying to defend Trump, especially Australians.

Like really, what is it that you have to gain for supporting him so?  He is one of the least deserving people of such blind devotion on the planet, literally.  He's only ever had his own interests at heart and has left a trail of destroyed business, local economies, environmental damage and broken lives in his wake.

It doesn't matter the situation, I've been reading some of the older threads and you're right there, pitchfork in hand, making wild claims, dismissing facts and evidence and drawing nonsensical conclusions from the small bits of truth you don't simply dismiss, all to defend Trump and attack those who are not only critical of him, but simply ask questions or fail to support him.

It's scary, and I don't understand why...

He lied so very much throughout the campaign and continues to do so now as President. 

As for the campaign, a few choice selections are that the murder rate isn't the highest in 45 years, Obama didn't want to take in 250000 from Syria and their GDP was below zero...  What the!?

Lies like that should have been enough to disqualify him from the race.  That's not even mentioning his total bewilderment and lack of understanding of the Nuclear Triad and his answer, instead of being quiet or admitting he didn't know, he said,

"I think – I think, for me, nuclear is just the power, the devastation is very important to me."

A lesser fail by Rick Perry was enough to end him...

Since being elected Trump has exaggerated the size of his inauguration crowd, he lied about the mass voter fraud without any proof and he even lied about the weather during his inauguration.  These are but a handful of the lesser lies but still lies nonetheless.

I don't understand why it is that you and those like you continue to defend him.  I know he's become the poster boy for Trolls all over the world and White Supremacists, even those he and his team aren't re-tweeting or failing to disavow love him and think what he means by MAGA is to get rid of the black guy in the oval office, prevent a woman from being there and deport all the immigrants and stop anymore from entering.

But from someone who appears to live in Australia, how does any of that matter?  How can that be an acceptable reason to turn a blind eye to everything else he's doing?

Hell it's not even turning a blind eye, you're defending it!

I just don't get it, why in your opinion is he worth the trouble?  Objectively he hasn't earned it in anyway, other than the aforementioned "reasons".

Care to shed any light as to why you're so devoted to him?

I'm sure that I'm not alone in wanting to understand this phenomenon.

Thanks

the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 10:04am:

the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now.

LOL,


Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar.
So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation.

the left are trumps best friends.

i think people like gweg are on his pay roll

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 10:16am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll

Yep. They haven't realised how counter-productive they are.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 10:16am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll

True, Aquascoot. Trump's worst friends are those Republicans in congress and the senate - people like John McCain, who has a career's experience in defence, foreign policy and national security.

These Republicans want to see Trump come to his senses, but if he doesn't, will act in the interests of the US. If Trump is found to be acting in his own interests alone, he won't be supported by his party. If he's found to be acting on behalf of Putin, or the white supremacists, or his own business, they'll fight Trump hard. Many are already circling their wagons.

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 7:57am:

I'm sure that I'm not alone in wanting to understand this phenomenon. Thanks

I'd like to believe you're interested in understanding, but past experience tells me thats not the case, so I'm not going to waste much breath.  Put it this way:


Quote:

"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." The term redpill refers to a human that is aware of the true nature of the Matrix.

Blue pill = mainstream/matrix
Red pill = Trump

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAQSAAAAJDJmMjgwNjU1LWFmYzMtNDM5Ny1hZjUwLWQ5NjBlNWUzYzc4Nw.jpg

And this is why it's a waste of breath:


Quote:

'You have to understand. Most people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured and so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.'

I wish you bliss in your virtual reality world.

Big Donger wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 10:58am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:16am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll True, Aquascoot. Trump's worst friends are those Republicans in congress and the senate - people like John McCain, who has a career's experience in defence, foreign policy and national security. These Republicans want to see Trump come to his senses, but if he doesn't, will act in the interests of the US. If Trump is found to be acting in his own interests alone, he won't be supported by his party. If he's found to be acting on behalf of Putin, or the white supremacists, or his own business, they'll fight Trump hard. Many are already circling their wagons.

those republicans, of whom you speak, are still part of the mainstream narrative, the socially conditioning forces for groupthink.
everyone acts out of self interest.
they have their little pension plans and their mistresses and their yachts just like trump.

And they dont want anyone messing with the "status quo".

Now Trump has gone to a paradigm of personal development that is above these scrubby citizens.

he hwas overdosed on mistresses and yachts and the good life and realised it didnt fulfil him and now he has gone into "contribution".

he wants to "make america great" he says , and i actually believe him.

if he just wants to be a fat pedo as the left paint him, he would stay in the shadows.

so its not that...it cant be.

i would back his motives as more ethical then some career republican who is cosy in the current status quo.

only the superior man embraces chaos, embraces change, tears up the rule book .

all entrepreneurs know that you have to bend or break the rules to create something different (something better).
if you dont, there can be no progress.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 11:14am:

he wants to "make america great" he says , and i actually believe him.

GOod idea, but how is he going to do it?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 11:14am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:58am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:16am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll True, Aquascoot. Trump's worst friends are those Republicans in congress and the senate - people like John McCain, who has a career's experience in defence, foreign policy and national security. These Republicans want to see Trump come to his senses, but if he doesn't, will act in the interests of the US. If Trump is found to be acting in his own interests alone, he won't be supported by his party. If he's found to be acting on behalf of Putin, or the white supremacists, or his own business, they'll fight Trump hard. Many are already circling their wagons. those republicans, of whom you speak, are still part of the mainstream narrative, the socially conditioning forces for groupthink. everyone acts out of self interest. they have their little pension plans and their mistresses and their yachts just like trump. And they dont want anyone messing with the "status quo". Now Trump has gone to a paradigm of personal development that is above these scrubby citizens. he hwas overdosed on mistresses and yachts and the good life and realised it didnt fulfil him and now he has gone into "contribution". he wants to "make america great" he says , and i actually believe him. if he just wants to be a fat pedo as the left paint him, he would stay in the shadows. so its not that...it cant be. i would back his motives as more ethical then some career republican who is cosy in the current status quo. only the superior man embraces chaos, embraces change, tears up the rule book . all entrepreneurs know that you have to bend or break the rules to create something different (something better). if you dont, there can be no progress.

Alas, dear, those Republicans are well out of the mainstream narrative, which focuses on silly ideological point-scoring between left and right. The mainstream narrative - the one that sells newspapers and TV and radio and generates readers online - is drama: political intrigue, security threats, terrorism, but most importantly, conflict. Conflict, after all, is the essence of drama.

And this is why Trump has done so well. He understands drama. He was, remember, the star of a reality TV show.

The Establishment does not work this way. It usually shuns the limelight. The Establishment is motivated by continuity, stability, and order. This is not a left/right thing, which Trump understands all too well. He has donated and campaigned for both Democrats and Republicans as this is how you do business. Trump, you see, is the Establishment. His real estate business requires stability and order, but this conflicts with his celebrity business - Trump's "branding" - which requires controversy and drama to compete for airtime. An interesting irony.

As head of state, the US presidency is the very embodiment of the Establishment. It's not a role for wreckers. There are clear limits on its powers, as Trump's disastrous attempt to ban Muslims has shown. This is not about left and right, but the separation of powers - the constitution, which Trump is sworn to uphold.

The Republican Establishment will go along with Trump only for as long as this is in their interests to do. They can't possibly support a president who fights the Establishment. They understand Trump's rhetoric to be merely populist, calculated to capture a certain segment of the electorate. In other words, they think he's all bluff.

But If Trump goes against their interests, they'll turn. They will have to - they won't get funded and re-elected if they don't.

Trump understands this. He's good at reading people's motives. For the most part, his fighting words are indeed all bluff - this is, at least, what his kids have indicated. And as Trump himself has shown, he believes he merely needs to give the appearance of following through on his ridiculous election promises. You know, an attempt to ban people from a handful of Muslim countries, build a Mexican fence, fake a Mexican payment plan, and on and on.

But Trump is now finding that even symbolic gestures are impossible to achieve within the complex difusion of power in the US. Remember this, Aquascoot, it's important. We warned of this prior to Trump's election, and the reality of the presidency - a job Trump's always said he'll leave for others - has dawned upon him.

The role of president is not a job for a fighter, it's a job for those who bring people together.

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 11:01am:

I wish you bliss in your virtual reality world.

I appreciate the response.

So, the short version is, you think Trump is the answer to all our (well, the US) problems, or is it that only the truth can come from him?

I am actually genuinely interested in understanding what you cryptic movie quote reponse to such an important question actually means.

I really would like to know why Trump keeps getting such special treatment. 

Clearly there must be a reason why any and all ways that his opponents are bad don't apply to him.  He must be bringing something to the table in the mind of his supporters to justify the hypocrisy, I just want to know what that is.

It has to be more than him simply being "anti-establishment" in their minds. 

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 10:16am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll

Trump is a self-confessed sexual predator. Fact.

Trump doesn't pay his taxes. Fact.

Trump doesn't pay his contractors. Fact.

Trump didn't earn his first millions. Fact.

Trump owes billions to hundreds of creditors. Fact.

Trump is an alleged child rapist. Fact.

aquascoot continues to defend a self-confessed sexual predator,  who doesn't pay taxes, doesn't pay contractors, isn't a self-made millionaire, is in debt up to his orange eye balls, and is an alleged child rapist. Fact.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 11:14am:

only the superior man embraces chaos, embraces change, tears up the rule book .

The problem with that way of thinking is that firstly he alone can't do that under the Republican Control we see today, and secondly, you want an ethical man of good principles to be tearing up the rule book and writing a new one.  Even that isn't enough, but it shouldn't even be considered unless they meet that criteria.

And Trump doesn't not by a mile.

He'll do what he's always done and make the rules to suit himself, only this time rather than being a bully willing to silence critics through lawsuits, twitter attacks and continually lying by painting a false narrative until he gets his way, he is actually in a position of power to make the changes.

Sure he's still lying, tweeting and painting a false narratives, but that doesn't change the big shift in the power dynamic.  If he was capable of such change are we being told he is, surely he'd change his ways now that he holds all the cards?

And given that his actions in his transition to politics haven't shown in any way that he's changed his spots nor moving into team "contribution", we can only take his word for it. 

And for years, only strengthened by his campaign and few weeks in office, his word alone means nothing.

Absolutely nothing. 

His motive and what's in it for him is the only sign of how likely he is to follow through with any given claim and even then the end goal is all that matters.  He may claim he'll follow all environmental guidelines in building say a Golf Course.  At the end of the day, he brings in his own environmental advisors and follows their guidelines, builds the course and that's that.  End result sure, but how he got there was nothing like his claims. 

He just tells people what he thinks they want to here and for all his "Crooked Hillary" he can't help by lie when he does it, then double down when confronted with the proof of it.  It's still happening today.

All of that said, I do want him to succeed.  I would like him to "MAGA", but to that I'd also like to know what he means by that. 

It's a great slogan but without goal posts it means nothing, just like his word.

Yes it would be nice for the forgotten people to have a voice and that going a step further and being more than talk and have some real action in improving the outcomes of all Americans, but again, the question is "how"?

But before you can get to "how" we need to know what his vision is, where he sees the goal posts.  I understand from a businessman point of view you'd want to hold some things close to your chest lest they be stolen the cheap knock offs beating you to market, but from the point of view of running the country, it just comes off as there being no plan and the man and his team have no direction and are hopelessly out of their depth.

These are why some of these questions that they've unable to answer are so important.

Haters will always find a way to hate, but he and his supporters need to be able to identify and separate the attempts to undermine him from those at wanting to know what is happening so they can even form an opinion of him.

And they should help people with that.  The objective opinion anyone can form of him is that he is a thin skinned man baby who only cares about himself and will exploit the people like he has always done throughout his life to achieve his end.  The problem is, his end was to become President, not do anything as president.

He may be better than some of the existing politicians, especially if you take his character assessment of them vs his inflated self image, but that simply isn't enough.  He needs to prove himself, not simply claim to be better than everyone else, just as they would have had to do the same if they occupied the Oval Office.

So far, he's played things far too close to his chest and revealing such little detail it comes of as utter incompetence and at best, faking it until he makes it.

That's not good enough from the highest office in the free world.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 1:03pm:

Fact.

Much of that is documented fact, but the child rapist thing, until there is any evidence is a step to far for me.

That said, this is why I strive to understand why people support him and what it is he is doing, or claiming he will do, that allows them to push all the things aside like those you've listed (plus many more things) when even lesser things are enough to attack his opponents, critics or even those who simply don't support him.

I just want to understand what that is because I can't see it for myself.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 11:14am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:58am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:16am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll True, Aquascoot. Trump's worst friends are those Republicans in congress and the senate - people like John McCain, who has a career's experience in defence, foreign policy and national security. These Republicans want to see Trump come to his senses, but if he doesn't, will act in the interests of the US. If Trump is found to be acting in his own interests alone, he won't be supported by his party. If he's found to be acting on behalf of Putin, or the white supremacists, or his own business, they'll fight Trump hard. Many are already circling their wagons. those republicans, of whom you speak, are still part of the mainstream narrative, the socially conditioning forces for groupthink. everyone acts out of self interest. they have their little pension plans and their mistresses and their yachts just like trump. And they dont want anyone messing with the "status quo". Now Trump has gone to a paradigm of personal development that is above these scrubby citizens. he hwas overdosed on mistresses and yachts and the good life and realised it didnt fulfil him and now he has gone into "contribution". he wants to "make america great" he says , and i actually believe him. if he just wants to be a fat pedo as the left paint him, he would stay in the shadows. so its not that...it cant be. i would back his motives as more ethical then some career republican who is cosy in the current status quo. only the superior man embraces chaos, embraces change, tears up the rule book . all entrepreneurs know that you have to bend or break the rules to create something different (something better). if you dont, there can be no progress.

I think his motives are more ethical then almost all other politicians and he is capable of getting things done.

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 1:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 1:03pm: Fact. Much of that is documented fact, but the child rapist thing, until there is any evidence is a step to far for me. That said, this is why I strive to understand why people support him and what it is he is doing, or claiming he will do, that allows them to push all the things aside like those you've listed (plus many more things) when even lesser things are enough to attack his opponents, critics or even those who simply don't support him. I just want to understand what that is because I can't see it for myself.

The Mexican border is the hot issue: the Americans are scared isis will come through there and the logical chain of thought can't dismiss the possibility!

The election campaign wrote itself: someone just had to be crazy enough to say it!

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 1:17pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 11:14am: only the superior man embraces chaos, embraces change, tears up the rule book . The problem with that way of thinking is that firstly he alone can't do that under the Republican Control we see today, and secondly, you want an ethical man of good principles to be tearing up the rule book and writing a new one.  Even that isn't enough, but it shouldn't even be considered unless they meet that criteria. And Trump doesn't not by a mile. He'll do what he's always done and make the rules to suit himself, only this time rather than being a bully willing to silence critics through lawsuits, twitter attacks and continually lying by painting a false narrative until he gets his way, he is actually in a position of power to make the changes. Sure he's still lying, tweeting and painting a false narratives, but that doesn't change the big shift in the power dynamic.  If he was capable of such change are we being told he is, surely he'd change his ways now that he holds all the cards? And given that his actions in his transition to politics haven't shown in any way that he's changed his spots nor moving into team "contribution", we can only take his word for it.  And for years, only strengthened by his campaign and few weeks in office, his word alone means nothing. Absolutely nothing.  His motive and what's in it for him is the only sign of how likely he is to follow through with any given claim and even then the end goal is all that matters.  He may claim he'll follow all environmental guidelines in building say a Golf Course.  At the end of the day, he brings in his own environmental advisors and follows their guidelines, builds the course and that's that.  End result sure, but how he got there was nothing like his claims.  He just tells people what he thinks they want to here and for all his "Crooked Hillary" he can't help by lie when he does it, then double down when confronted with the proof of it.  It's still happening today. All of that said, I do want him to succeed.  I would like him to "MAGA", but to that I'd also like to know what he means by that.  It's a great slogan but without goal posts it means nothing, just like his word. Yes it would be nice for the forgotten people to have a voice and that going a step further and being more than talk and have some real action in improving the outcomes of all Americans, but again, the question is "how"? But before you can get to "how" we need to know what his vision is, where he sees the goal posts.  I understand from a businessman point of view you'd want to hold some things close to your chest lest they be stolen the cheap knock offs beating you to market, but from the point of view of running the country, it just comes off as there being no plan and the man and his team have no direction and are hopelessly out of their depth. These are why some of these questions that they've unable to answer are so important. Haters will always find a way to hate, but he and his supporters need to be able to identify and separate the attempts to undermine him from those at wanting to know what is happening so they can even form an opinion of him. And they should help people with that.  The objective opinion anyone can form of him is that he is a thin skinned man baby who only cares about himself and will exploit the people like he has always done throughout his life to achieve his end.  The problem is, his end was to become President, not do anything as president. He may be better than some of the existing politicians, especially if you take his character assessment of them vs his inflated self image, but that simply isn't enough.  He needs to prove himself, not simply claim to be better than everyone else, just as they would have had to do the same if they occupied the Oval Office. So far, he's played things far too close to his chest and revealing such little detail it comes of as utter incompetence and at best, faking it until he makes it. That's not good enough from the highest office in the free world.

Very true, Sad. Of course it's early days, but to date, Trump has only stuffed things up in office. This only highlights his lack of planning and advice.

Imagine, Trump's Labor Secretary has just been outed as having had an illegal immigrant employed as a servant. How's that for an administration that appeals to the "average American". This is Trump's choice as secretary for LABOR.

We will make Amerika great again, no?

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 12:56pm:

So, the short version is, you think Trump is the answer to all our (well, the US) problems, or is it that only the truth can come from him?

"The chosen one" business is a bit too movie cliche for me, he's simply the first major politician to address the bigger issue that disenfranchises regular people from politics.

Maybe nothing will come from it, but if you don't give support, or actively undermine him while he is facing immensely powerful enemies, failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 



SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 12:56pm:

I really would like to know why Trump keeps getting such special treatment.

Special treatment from whom?  The propaganda assault against him has certainly been the greatest I've ever seen, but you're not asking why.  Until you learn that the corporate media are not your
friends, that they only tell you want they want you to know, in the way they want you to know it, you're going to stay confused.   

One expects the propaganda arm of your enemy to attack the leader of a movement against it - that's exactly what they're supposed to do. 

It's when they don't attack that you worry, and they haven't let up for a minute.

Not once do you touch on an issue as to why he won. You skirt around.


Big Donger wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 12:50pm:

Alas, dear, those Republicans are well out of the mainstream narrative, which focuses on silly ideological point-scoring between left and right. The mainstream narrative - the one that sells newspapers and TV and radio and generates readers online - is drama: political intrigue, security threats, terrorism, but most importantly, conflict. Conflict, after all, is the essence of drama. And this is why Trump has done so well. He understands drama. He was, remember, the star of a reality TV show.

Yawn. It's all about drama.


Quote:

The Establishment does not work this way. It usually shuns the limelight. The Establishment is motivated by continuity, stability, and order. This is not a left/right thing, which Trump understands all too well. He has donated and campaigned for both Democrats and Republicans as this is how you do business. Trump, you see, is the Establishment. His real estate business requires stability and order, but this conflicts with his celebrity business - Trump's "branding" - which requires controversy and drama to compete for airtime. An interesting irony.

Yawn. It's all about his real estate business.


Quote:

As head of state, the US presidency is the very embodiment of the Establishment. It's not a role for wreckers. There are clear limits on its powers, as Trump's disastrous attempt to ban Muslims has shown. This is not about left and right, but the separation of powers - the constitution, which Trump is sworn to uphold.

Muddled thinking (and irrelevant). It's about the Establishment. No, wait, it's about the powers of the Establishment. No, wait, it's about the separation of powers. Yawn.


Quote:

The Republican Establishment will go along with Trump only for as long as this is in their interests to do. They can't possibly support a president who fights the Establishment. They understand Trump's rhetoric to be merely populist, calculated to capture a certain segment of the electorate. In other words, they think he's all bluff.

It's about the Establishment. No, wait, it's about populism. No, wait, he's bluffing. Yawn.



Quote:

Trump understands this. He's good at reading people's motives. For the most part, his fighting words are indeed all bluff - this is, at least, what his kids have indicated. And as Trump himself has shown, he believes he merely needs to give the appearance of following through on his ridiculous election promises. You know, an attempt to ban people from a handful of Muslim countries, build a Mexican fence, fake a Mexican payment plan, and on and on.

It's all about appearances. Hang on, so why is he going through with his election promises? Yawn.


Quote:

But Trump is now finding that even symbolic gestures are impossible to achieve within the complex difusion of power in the US. Remember this, Aquascoot, it's important. We warned of this prior to Trump's election, and the reality of the presidency - a job Trump's always said he'll leave for others - has dawned upon him.

It's all about symbolic gestures. Yawn.


Quote:

The role of president is not a job for a fighter, it's a job for those who bring people together.

Like when identity politics went full retard under Obama and every other leftist 'leader'? And why Obama supported rebels and bombings in foreign countries, destablising the entire region. Yawn.

Lefties are done for because they simply won't reflect on why they lost. It might take a decade or more, but the left are finished. They are like a stupid animal that is being attacked but has no idea why they are being attacked, let alone how to push back against the attack. The only way for Trump and non-leftists to lose the culture war now is to massively stuff up.

Lefties. Identity politics. Culture war.

Yawn. Yawn. Yawn.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 1:47pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 11:14am: Big Donger wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:58am: aquascoot wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:16am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:04am: the destabilisation campaign started when trump announced he was running as a candidate. it didn't work back then and it won't work now. LOL, Anyone reading the comments of , say, pecca , would know that he is a confirmed and self - admitted liar. So if a liar says bad things about Trump, that makes Trmp go up in a sane persons estimation. the left are trumps best friends. i think people like gweg are on his pay roll True, Aquascoot. Trump's worst friends are those Republicans in congress and the senate - people like John McCain, who has a career's experience in defence, foreign policy and national security. These Republicans want to see Trump come to his senses, but if he doesn't, will act in the interests of the US. If Trump is found to be acting in his own interests alone, he won't be supported by his party. If he's found to be acting on behalf of Putin, or the white supremacists, or his own business, they'll fight Trump hard. Many are already circling their wagons. those republicans, of whom you speak, are still part of the mainstream narrative, the socially conditioning forces for groupthink. everyone acts out of self interest. they have their little pension plans and their mistresses and their yachts just like trump. And they dont want anyone messing with the "status quo". Now Trump has gone to a paradigm of personal development that is above these scrubby citizens. he hwas overdosed on mistresses and yachts and the good life and realised it didnt fulfil him and now he has gone into "contribution". he wants to "make america great" he says , and i actually believe him. if he just wants to be a fat pedo as the left paint him, he would stay in the shadows. so its not that...it cant be. i would back his motives as more ethical then some career republican who is cosy in the current status quo. only the superior man embraces chaos, embraces change, tears up the rule book . all entrepreneurs know that you have to bend or break the rules to create something different (something better). if you dont, there can be no progress. I think his motives are more ethical then almost all other politicians and he is capable of getting things done.

Ethical hyperbole, eh? Alternative ethics.

He is capable of getting things done.

Ban them.

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2017 at 2:26pm:

"The chosen one" business is a bit too movie cliche for me, he's simply the first major politician to address the bigger issue that disenfranchises regular people from politics. Maybe nothing will come from it, but if you don't give support, or actively undermine him while he is facing immensely powerful enemies, failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.  Special treatment from whom?  The propaganda assault against him has certainly been the greatest I've ever seen, but you're not asking why.  Until you learn that the corporate media are not your friends, that they only tell you want they want you to know, in the way they want you to know it, you're going to stay confused.    One expects the propaganda arm of your enemy to attack the leader of a movement against it - that's exactly what they're supposed to do.  It's when they don't attack that you worry, and they haven't let up for a minute.

Too movie cliche for you?  You just Blue Pill / Red Pilled me!?

(haha :D)

So, you're giving him a change (aka, complete and unfettered support to the point of personally attacking his critics no matter how legitimate their questions/claims) because he's claiming that he'll do what no other politician has about the bigger issues that "the establishment" haven't solved?

It's a nice idea, but he isn't the first politician to claim he'll do so and he won't be the last, but that doesn't put him above criticism or above the law.

He is however when his past is taken into account one of the least likely people to be genuine in those claims, and it's truly frightening that people think he is.  He constantly exploits the people claiming to stand up for and has stacked his cabinet with people who care even less for then, then on top of that he's picked a political side and handed them the majority who care even less than that!

I know I'm full of questions, but would you by any chance be able to articulate what these issues are?

Like any leader, he needs to be held to account for his claims and promises before he took office.  For us to do that we need some context as to what the issues are and how he's proposed to fix them that has apparently gained your respect, so much so that you're turning a blind eye to so much of his conduct.

And as for special treatment, he has attacked and pissed off practically everyone over the years.  Every single President before him has been attacked by their enemies, be they political or otherwise and relentlessly so.  Trump was even one of those enemies to Obama and he did the same thing to Obama, lying about his birth cert etc for years.

It may seem worse for Trump but that's only because he's gone out of his way to make an enemy out of anyone who is of no use to him, and now that's coming back to hurt him.

Those chickens coming home to roost isn't any kind of defense for him either, it's yet more self inflicted and well deserved problems.

But the special treatment comes from him getting away with regular and repeated conduct that he said was unacceptable from his opponents, only he's dialed it up past 11 and surpassed even his doomsday fantasy predictions about them to make himself look good in comparison.

He has said and done things that would disqualify literally every single other eligible person for the oval office on the planet from the Presidency, yet his supporters wear said indiscretions as a badge of honour.  It's unprecedented and the epitome of special treatment.

Thanks to things like the Celebrity Apprentice and his apparent pandering if not close links to white supremacists, it's helped him gain this broad support of people who don't care what he does, they'll support him either because of his celebrity status, they think he'll make them "rich" like him, or the areas in which he'll "do what nobody has done before", which given many of it overlaps with what these white supremacists routinely meet about, again, for him to still be on the scene takes an enormous amount of special treatment and a different set of rules for him than everyone else.

I want him to be able to achieve his very broad and undefined goal of MAGA, but I am tentatively worried because nobody actually knows that that means.  It means different things to different people.

And that's a recipe for disaster.  It's almost like he's trying to start conflict on the world stage in order to sure up his support at home.

SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 7:46am:

... wrote on Feb 17th, 2017 at 2:26pm: "The chosen one" business is a bit too movie cliche for me, he's simply the first major politician to address the bigger issue that disenfranchises regular people from politics. Maybe nothing will come from it, but if you don't give support, or actively undermine him while he is facing immensely powerful enemies, failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.  Special treatment from whom?  The propaganda assault against him has certainly been the greatest I've ever seen, but you're not asking why.  Until you learn that the corporate media are not your friends, that they only tell you want they want you to know, in the way they want you to know it, you're going to stay confused.    One expects the propaganda arm of your enemy to attack the leader of a movement against it - that's exactly what they're supposed to do.  It's when they don't attack that you worry, and they haven't let up for a minute. Too movie cliche for you?  You just Blue Pill / Red Pilled me!? (haha :D) So, you're giving him a change (aka, complete and unfettered support to the point of personally attacking his critics no matter how legitimate their questions/claims) because he's claiming that he'll do what no other politician has about the bigger issues that "the establishment" haven't solved? It's a nice idea, but he isn't the first politician to claim he'll do so and he won't be the last, but that doesn't put him above criticism or above the law. He is however when his past is taken into account one of the least likely people to be genuine in those claims, and it's truly frightening that people think he is.  He constantly exploits the people claiming to stand up for and has stacked his cabinet with people who care even less for then, then on top of that he's picked a political side and handed them the majority who care even less than that! I know I'm full of questions, but would you by any chance be able to articulate what these issues are? Like any leader, he needs to be held to account for his claims and promises before he took office.  For us to do that we need some context as to what the issues are and how he's proposed to fix them that has apparently gained your respect, so much so that you're turning a blind eye to so much of his conduct. And as for special treatment, he has attacked and pissed off practically everyone over the years.  Every single President before him has been attacked by their enemies, be they political or otherwise and relentlessly so.  Trump was even one of those enemies to Obama and he did the same thing to Obama, lying about his birth cert etc for years. It may seem worse for Trump but that's only because he's gone out of his way to make an enemy out of anyone who is of no use to him, and now that's coming back to hurt him. Those chickens coming home to roost isn't any kind of defense for him either, it's yet more self inflicted and well deserved problems. But the special treatment comes from him getting away with regular and repeated conduct that he said was unacceptable from his opponents, only he's dialed it up past 11 and surpassed even his doomsday fantasy predictions about them to make himself look good in comparison. He has said and done things that would disqualify literally every single other eligible person for the oval office on the planet from the Presidency, yet his supporters wear said indiscretions as a badge of honour.  It's unprecedented and the epitome of special treatment. Thanks to things like the Celebrity Apprentice and his apparent pandering if not close links to white supremacists, it's helped him gain this broad support of people who don't care what he does, they'll support him either because of his celebrity status, they think he'll make them "rich" like him, or the areas in which he'll "do what nobody has done before", which given many of it overlaps with what these white supremacists routinely meet about, again, for him to still be on the scene takes an enormous amount of special treatment and a different set of rules for him than everyone else. I want him to be able to achieve his very broad and undefined goal of MAGA, but I am tentatively worried because nobody actually knows that that means.  It means different things to different people. And that's a recipe for disaster.  It's almost like he's trying to start conflict on the world stage in order to sure up his support at home.

Trust me.

Take the blue pill!

Richdude wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 2:10am:

Trust me. Take the blue pill!

I don't think that's an option anymore, not now that we've all had the orange pill forced on us.