Quote:

Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway introduces the world to 'alternative facts' Aaron Blake If there was one Sunday-morning talk show exchange that describes the new reality for the political media - and for the truth - during the Donald Trump era, this was it. It was a discussion about White House press secretary Sean Spicer, on his first full day in that job, having taken to the podium and made easily disproved claims about the size of Trump's inauguration crowd. "Why put him out there for the very first time, in front of that podium, to utter a provable falsehood?" Meet the Press host Chuck Todd asked Kellyanne Conway, counsellor to the President. "It's a small thing, but the first time he confronts the public, it's a falsehood?" After some tense back and forth, Conway offered this: "Don't be so overly dramatic about it, Chuck. You're saying it's a falsehood, and they're giving - our press secretary, Sean Spicer, gave alternative facts to that. But the point really is ... " At this point, a visibly exasperated Todd cut in. "Wait a minute. Alternative facts? Alternative facts? Four of the five facts he uttered ... were just not true. Alternative facts are not facts; they're falsehoods." "Fake news" is so yesterday. "Alternative facts" is where it's at now. This, of course, isn't the first time the Trump team and its supporters have responded to journalists calling out their falsehoods by claiming the truth isn't so black and white or that it's not a big deal. Former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski offered this after the election, comparing Trump with a guy at the bar and saying, "You're going to say things, and sometimes you don't have all the facts to back it up." That week, pro-Trump CNN pundit Scottie Nell Hughes offered this on Diane Rehm's radio show: "One thing that's been interesting this campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts - they're not really facts. Everybody has a way - it's kind of like looking at ratings or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true. There's no such thing, unfortunately any more, of facts." Hughes is not an official spokesman for the Trump team, but that last comment is basically what Conway was arguing on Sunday - that there are so many shades of grey that clear facts just don't really exist. This, of course, is a hugely cynical world view. But it's about the only way the Trump team can fight back, given how questionable the new President's purported facts have been throughout his time as a politician. Whether you like Trump or not, it's demonstrably true that he says things that are easily proved false, over and over again. The question the media has regularly confronted is not whether Trump's facts are correct but whether to say he's deliberately lying or not. Trump himself has been using his own brand of the truth, which is often false, for months. And there was really no way that his administration wasn't going to have to deal with that same tendency during his presidency. On Saturday in Spicer's statement and on Sunday in Conway's interview, the two are attempting to set a precedent that says they don't recognise the concept of facts as the media has come to define them; they have their own "alternative facts" and they'll rely on those. And as brazen as it is, it's likely to appeal to Trump's base. Polls have regularly shown a large portion of Republicans are more apt to believe Trump's claims even if they are pretty patently false, as Washington Post columnist Catherine Rampell wrote last month. It's a symptom of media distrust. After Spicer's statement, The New York Times' Glenn Thrush tweeted: "Prediction: There will be a poll, out next week, that will show 70-80% of Trump supporters believing that Mall photos were fake news." Both "fake news" and the concept of "alternative facts" are now cudgels in the effort to obfuscate when reporters point out that Trump and his team have their facts wrong. Welcome to our new political reality - or rather, realities. The Washington Post

http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trump-introduces-world-to-alice-in-wonderland-era-of-alternative-reality-20170122-gtwktg.html

The clash of civilizations is on. It's no longer about Islam versus the West or left versus right, or protected markets versus free trade or any of that.

Today, the clash lies between propaganda and truth; porkies versus facts.

The internet has given us the power to fact-check information, but it's also given us the ability to blind ourselves to the truth - to form virtual communities based on propaganda.

There is no such thing as a "post-truth" world. The role of the media is still to report facts. The importance of this has never been so clear: in times of almost universal deceit, the truth is a revolutionary act.

Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2017 at 11:37am:

oday, the clash lies between propaganda and truth; porkies versus facts.

Oh I think that clash has always been there K. And don't think that the propaganda is one way traffic only.

Team Trump was always going to lash out against those humiliating photos. For me though the point about it was not Team Trump's bumbling response, it was that the media actually bothered to publish those photos and make such a song and dance about it in the first place. Of course Trump asked for it, boasting how big it was, when it clearly wasn't - but this didn't feel like a responsible media merely correcting the facts - it felt malicious and vengeful.

Here's my problem K: this current clash we see between 'truth' and 'porkies' is quickly and inevitably shaping up as a clash between the 'Trump rebels' and the old establishment - that bad old establishment that looks out for the 1 percenters, screws the rest and profits from war and occupation. Remember the bitter conflict within the democrats during the Primaries - between Mrs establishment and the backlash against the establishment? You can forget about that now - the Sanders movement will now join forces with the establishment against the common enemy. The latest polls show that Trump supporters are reduced to a tiny rump of uneducated angry rural white folk - and it is shrinking by the day. There is so much anger and fear over Trump that people will fall in line with the slick, well rehearsed propaganda of the establishment - even at a time when distrust in those very institutions is at an all time low. I'm totally not ruling out Hillary making a comeback next Presidential election cycle. I liken this situation to the way in which Stalinist Russia was allowed to rampage through Eastern Europe - while the west was preoccupied with something even worse.

Make no mistake - the establishment is poised for a comeback, and they will use Trump - or rather use the extreme hatred of Trump - to achieve it. And yes, I absolutely think that the paranoia of the Trump supporters is not entirely unjustified.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifOh it's crying time again Trump has won the election http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifI can see the tears in all the leftards eyes http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifthe lefties told us they were pure and perfection http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifbut the whole world has woke up to their lies http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifcause it's crying time again for the leftards http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifoh the worm is slowly turning round http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifcause it's crying time again for the leftards http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gifin their lies and deception they will drown http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o113/ringerding/music1.gif

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2017 at 2:28pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 23rd, 2017 at 11:37am: oday, the clash lies between propaganda and truth; porkies versus facts. Oh I think that clash has always been there K. And don't think that the propaganda is one way traffic only. Team Trump was always going to lash out against those humiliating photos. For me though the point about it was not Team Trump's bumbling response, it was that the media actually bothered to publish those photos and make such a song and dance about it in the first place. Of course Trump asked for it, boasting how big it was, when it clearly wasn't - but this didn't feel like a responsible media merely correcting the facts - it felt malicious and vengeful. Here's my problem K: this current clash we see between 'truth' and 'porkies' is quickly and inevitably shaping up as a clash between the 'Trump rebels' and the old establishment - that bad old establishment that looks out for the 1 percenters, screws the rest and profits from war and occupation. Remember the bitter conflict within the democrats during the Primaries - between Mrs establishment and the backlash against the establishment? You can forget about that now - the Sanders movement will now join forces with the establishment against the common enemy. The latest polls show that Trump supporters are reduced to a tiny rump of uneducated angry rural white folk - and it is shrinking by the day. There is so much anger and fear over Trump that people will fall in line with the slick, well rehearsed propaganda of the establishment - even at a time when distrust in those very institutions is at an all time low. I'm totally not ruling out Hillary making a comeback next Presidential election cycle. I liken this situation to the way in which Stalinist Russia was allowed to rampage through Eastern Europe - while the west was preoccupied with something even worse. Make no mistake - the establishment is poised for a comeback, and they will use Trump - or rather use the extreme hatred of Trump - to achieve it. And yes, I absolutely think that the paranoia of the Trump supporters is not entirely unjustified.

Trump is the Establishment, G. He's just an outsider. He's an old Queens boy daring to stick his face in Manhattan, and this sense of rejection drives Trump nearly as much as his narcissism.

My point is not merely about Trump. Brexit was also based on a lie. The belief that Syrian refugees could just walk into Britain and blow everyone up was false. The UK was never part of the border-free Schengen Agreement to begin with. Britain voted out of the EU on a completely false premise: that they are being invaded by tinted races from Europe when, in reality, getting out of the EU will make no difference to immigration from the Middle East or Central Asia.

The new world order as many here are calling it is based on lies. People say they don't have time to fact check everything, but this is because they spend most of their time ogling celebrities and/or celebrity politicians.

The framework for the "post-truth" world has been laid by News Ltd, the UK Daily Mail and current affairs television. It's driven by news-as-entertainment - news that seeks to anger or terrify its audience rather than giving it to them straight. Of course the world would get celebrity charlatans running for leadership - this was inevitable. Of course lies rate higher than truth. Truth is complicated. It doesn't always fit a universal narrative. There are rarely good guys and bad guys and victims and perpetrators. No one is innocent.

Truth is doubtful. People want to be assured one way or another, but in uncovering the truth, you always traverse different sides and perspectives.

Facts, however, are facts. Porkies come into it when the truth is too hard to uncover - much easier to make up your own facts, and there - instant truth. I'm right, you're wrong, always absolutely never ever.

In such a post-truth world, facts have never been more important. In a world where blogs are presented as news, or advertising takes precedence over journalistic fact-checking, or lies are published because they're seen as more interesting, the truth has never been more crucial.

Can't disagree on anything there K - good analysis.

I guess my point is that while Trump was basically a pawn of the right wing interests that carried his campaign (who described him as a "human molotov cocktail" - deliberately thrown in to cause mayhem) - I think its inevitable he will become a pawn of the wounded establishment. Not by manipulating him, but by manipulating and subtly sabotaging the backlash against him.

What I'm trying to say is that while is right and proper to attack Trump and the "post truth" world that he is leading, it would be naive to assume that the opposition against him won't have a sinister agenda of their own. This realisation struck me especially when I saw the  media attack on his inauguration - which seemed to be even more spiteful than normal. It seems clear to me that the establishment is positioning themselves to manipulate and lead the "good fight" against Trump - cynically exploiting legitimate fears and concerns against the Trump agenda and everything he stands for. The hapless Trump lackeys won't stand a chance, and by the time its all over, too late will we all realise who the real threat was.

You're describing the rise of Adolf, G. The Establishment thought they could tame "the little corporal". This was a pivotal mistake.

Trump's erection wasn't about people-power, or even any genius on Trump's part. It was a simple race for the bottom, and the bottom won.

Trump can't possibly unite Amerika, not when over 50% of voters stand against him, along with a sizeable crowd who declined to vote. Trump is not even trying to reach out. His only option is to go to war, to find enemies within and without, and this will inevitably require porkies - just as the invasion of Iraq required uncontested porkies, and everybody knew.

as Longy once said about Australia, what Trump needs now is a major terrorist attack on Amerikan soil, and if history is any precedent, there's a good chance. If porkies are the new truth, we should expect a massive porkie.

Putin came to power on the back of Moscow bombings - attacks that were almost certainly conducted by Putin's old KGB employees. Look now who guides Trump from afar, who's staff have had meetings with Trump, who hacked and leaked against Trump's rival for the presidency - the biggest foreign intervention into a US erection. Ever.

The US has nearly hit rock bottom. The question now is how to get back up.

Quote:

"Wait a minute. Alternative facts? Alternative facts? Four of the five facts he uttered ... were just not true. Alternative facts are not facts; they're falsehoods."

Alternate facts, its better than non core promises.

More seriously it is disgusting. Telling lies and when caught calling them alternate facts.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm:

Quote: "Wait a minute. Alternative facts? Alternative facts? Four of the five facts he uttered ... were just not true. Alternative facts are not facts; they're falsehoods." Alternate facts, its better than non core promises. More seriously it is disgusting. Telling lies and when caught calling them alternate facts.

A sizeable portion of this board are happy to tell porkies if they sum up what they call a greater truth. The board's owner, FD, refuses to disclude the use of porkies in his campaign against the Muselman, and as we've all seen, he's happy to propagate them against other members here on an almost daily basis.

The question now is who's in - truth or lies? The question for ourselves is how honest we're prepared to be - our own experiment with truth, as Gandhi titled his autobiography.

For Gandhi, truth is far deeper than simply avoiding lies. Truth is about the struggle for unity - the truth within us all.

And yes, Gandhi struggled with the Muselman too - and lost.

He did, however, win his struggle against porkies.

Lefties talking about truth.

Well spit three times and call me allah.

Ten will get you one they've all seen a leprechaun on a unicorn.

Truth and the lefties, oil and water, muslims and modernity.

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2017 at 3:07pm:

Lefties talking about truth. Well spit three times and call me allah. Ten will get you one they've all seen a leprechaun on a unicorn. Truth and the lefties, oil and water, muslims and modernity.

Don't make that bet with greggery.

He's a welcher,        ....he won't pay up.

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2017 at 3:07pm:

Lefties talking about truth. Well spit three times and call me allah. Ten will get you one they've all seen a leprechaun on a unicorn. Truth and the lefties, oil and water, muslims and modernity.

You should write Haikus, Moses. With you as poet/mystic and Yadda as philosopher/manifesto-writer, you could have a successful new cult on your hands.

It doesn't mean what it says, no?

Apparently it doesn't mean what it says, you know the well worn taqiyya: the verses which say to rape torture and kill, actually mean camel piss and flies wings, to be followed by prayers in the toilet to expel the jinns.

All perfectly harmless stuff.

Ah if only the true blue mussos would wake up to this fact, instead they piously take the qur'an at its' word, they jollify their prayer filled lives with the most inhumane of atrocities. (all as a sacrifice to their moon god allah).

Oh well never mind, it appears the worm is turning.

moses wrote on Jan 25^th, 2017 at 2:19pm:

Apparently it doesn't mean what it says, you know the well worn taqiyya: the verses which say to rape torture and kill, actually mean camel piss and flies wings, to be followed by prayers in the toilet to expel the jinns. All perfectly harmless stuff. Ah if only the true blue mussos would wake up to this fact, instead they piously take the qur'an at its' word, they jollify their prayer filled lives with the most inhumane of atrocities. (all as a sacrifice to their moon god allah). Oh well never mind, it appears the worm is turning.

I most certainly do know taqiyya, Moses. Your own posts are soaking in it.

In particular, I loved the one where your prophet Yeheshua told us to hate the Muselman. Now that was taqiyya of theological proportions.

It doesn't mean what it says. You could base a cunning death cult on that porkie alone.

http://blog.bakerdavid.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LoveYourEnemies.jpg

moses wrote on Jan 24^th, 2017 at 3:07pm:

Lefties talking about truth. Well spit three times and call me allah. Ten will get you one they've all seen a leprechaun on a unicorn. Truth and the lefties, oil and water, muslims and modernity.

Yet factually Trump lies and you support it.

Yadda wrote on Jan 24^th, 2017 at 3:17pm:

moses wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 3:07pm: Lefties talking about truth. Well spit three times and call me allah. Ten will get you one they've all seen a leprechaun on a unicorn. Truth and the lefties, oil and water, muslims and modernity. Don't make that bet with greggery. He's a welcher,        ....he won't pay up.

In this case he would be collecting and I doubt he would get paid.

moses wrote on Jan 25^th, 2017 at 2:19pm:

Apparently it doesn't mean what it says, you know the well worn taqiyya: the verses which say to rape torture and kill, actually mean camel piss and flies wings, to be followed by prayers in the toilet to expel the jinns. All perfectly harmless stuff. Ah if only the true blue mussos would wake up to this fact, instead they piously take the qur'an at its' word, they jollify their prayer filled lives with the most inhumane of atrocities. (all as a sacrifice to their moon god allah). Oh well never mind, it appears the worm is turning.

Seldom is "the worm" a more appropriate term.

Facts are, people got sick and tired of the muslims / leftard assault on our way of life, with their lies, political correctness, hatred of the Jews & Christians, hatred of the west in general with a particular emphasis on America etc. etc..

Well it's come back to bite them, Trump, the rising anti islam parties in Europe, our own balance of power with Pauline playing a key role, it's all happening, around the globe.

The leftards and the muslims can cry me a river.

However they just went one step too far, so the inevitable has happened.

moses wrote on Jan 26^th, 2017 at 1:34pm:

Facts are, people got sick and tired of the muslims / leftard assault on our way of life, with their lies, political correctness, hatred of the Jews & Christians, hatred of the west in general with a particular emphasis on America etc. etc.. Well it's come back to bite them, Trump, the rising anti islam parties in Europe, our own balance of power with Pauline playing a key role, it's all happening, around the globe. The leftards and the muslims can cry me a river. However they just went one step too far, so the inevitable has happened.

He's even telling fibs in a thread about porkies. Talk about shameless.

In the "post-truth" world, the time for linguistic navel-gazing and deconstruction is over. We need to return to a form of universally-based ethics. Everyone has basic human rights, including the right to survive and not be defamed or lied about. Truth is absolute. It's not just a collection of heterogenous narratives and multiple subjectivities.

The question of Being, so important to philosophers like Heidegger, has been lost through a post-structuralist focus on language. The purpose of philosophy and ethics is unity. Post-structuralism has taken us to a place of nihilism: we only have language. Language divides sign and signified. There is no noumena or "thing in itself". All that's left of knowledge is the ontological ability point this out - to show how creatures of language are necessarily living a lie. Truth does not exist  - can't exist. We live in Plato's Cave, captured by our illusion. The way of language is to divide, separate, abstract. Hence, a form of warfare becomes normalised. There is no absolute truth, so porkies become institutionalised, and all we can do to resist them is to create our own porkies in response.

In essence, this was Nietzsche's view of history, but it ignores the bonds inherent in nature. It ignores love, fraternity, family. Maternal love, for example, is too strong to be a mere social construct. It transcends humanity, it's in all of nature. The bond between all beings is important, it transcends language. It triumphs over fear and hate. Being is, essentially, all consciousness - not the atomised, abstracted version we have as beings.

Unity is the very purpose of society. We come together to protect each other. We don't require an internal or external enemy. We don't need to rely on lies to protect ourselves - this is how we get into problems in the first place. Nearly all wars and pogroms start with lies. Deliberate, calculated mass porkies. The biggest lie we face today is that we're under a constant threat of attack, when the real threat is our response to this porkie - the invasions, the crackdowns, the attacks on our own privacy and our own security, along with countless, ever-changing "others".

The real truth is that we are all the same. You can always spot a porkie when it goes against this fundamental truth of life. We all want love, fraternity and security. Most of us want to live and learn. And those who don't are fatally poisoned by their porkies.

The first thing we can do is to shut up. Stop the porkies. Start listening.

It's possible to learn to stop hating and fearing, but it takes some effort.

Shalom. Salaam Aleikum. Om. Amen. One.

The only language that resonates is truth.

Quote:

There will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, and truth will again triumph. Joseph Goebbels

Unforgiven wrote on Jan 26^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

Quote: There will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, and truth will again triumph. Joseph Goebbels

Very droll.

Universally based ethics, that's a winner with the old moon god for sure, all religin must be for allah.

The bond between muslims and non believers, another winner with muhammads' version of the pagan moon god allah, don't know exactly how that will work as it's well documented that allah hates non muslims.

Unity between muslims and non believers, ah yes muslims as the masters, the rest of us in dhimmitude, paying huge taxes to the islamic masters, that should be a real fun time.

The cracks are showing.

muslim / leftard self righteous wailing about truth and honesty, the joke of the century.

Time will tell it all, the lies of the leftwing and muslims have started to catch up with them. 

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2017 at 5:38pm:

moses wrote on Jan 26th, 2017 at 1:34pm: Facts are, people got sick and tired of the muslims / leftard assault on our way of life, with their lies, political correctness, hatred of the Jews & Christians, hatred of the west in general with a particular emphasis on America etc. etc.. Well it's come back to bite them, Trump, the rising anti islam parties in Europe, our own balance of power with Pauline playing a key role, it's all happening, around the globe. The leftards and the muslims can cry me a river. However they just went one step too far, so the inevitable has happened. He's even telling fibs in a thread about porkies. Talk about shameless. In the "post-truth" world, the time for linguistic navel-gazing and deconstruction is over. We need to return to a form of universally-based ethics. Everyone has basic human rights, including the right to survive and not be defamed or lied about. Truth is absolute. It's not just a collection of heterogenous narratives and multiple subjectivities. The question of Being, so important to philosophers like Heidegger, has been lost through a post-structuralist focus on language. The purpose of philosophy and ethics is unity. Post-structuralism has taken us to a place of nihilism: we only have language. Language divides sign and signified. There is no noumena or "thing in itself". All that's left of knowledge is the ontological ability point this out - to show how creatures of language are necessarily living a lie. Truth does not exist  - can't exist. We live in Plato's Cave, captured by our illusion. The way of language is to divide, separate, abstract. Hence, a form of warfare becomes normalised. There is no absolute truth, so porkies become institutionalised, and all we can do to resist them is to create our own porkies in response. In essence, this was Nietzsche's view of history, but it ignores the bonds inherent in nature. It ignores love, fraternity, family. Maternal love, for example, is too strong to be a mere social construct. It transcends humanity, it's in all of nature. The bond between all beings is important, it transcends language. It triumphs over fear and hate. Being is, essentially, all consciousness - not the atomised, abstracted version we have as beings. Unity is the very purpose of society. We come together to protect each other. We don't require an internal or external enemy. We don't need to rely on lies to protect ourselves - this is how we get into problems in the first place. Nearly all wars and pogroms start with lies. Deliberate, calculated mass porkies. The biggest lie we face today is that we're under a constant threat of attack, when the real threat is our response to this porkie - the invasions, the crackdowns, the attacks on our own privacy and our own security, along with countless, ever-changing "others". The real truth is that we are all the same. You can always spot a porkie when it goes against this fundamental truth of life. We all want love, fraternity and security. Most of us want to live and learn. And those who don't are fatally poisoned by their porkies. The first thing we can do is to shut up. Stop the porkies. Start listening. It's possible to learn to stop hating and fearing, but it takes some effort. Shalom. Salaam Aleikum. Om. Amen. One. The only language that resonates is truth.

Look who's done an about face.
I've been outlining the problems inherent in post-structuralism on here, and elsewhere, for years. There will be no reform unless there's wide spread de-funding of Universities and public institutions that peddle such nonsense. All this crap in the media is filtered down from the Universities.

Good point Misty - we must ruthlessly target and defund those horrible universities that peddle "nonsense" and make porkies the exclusive domain of right wing populists like Trump... provided they use them to purge the progressives of course.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 7:44am:

Good point Misty - we must ruthlessly target and defund those horrible universities that peddle "nonsense" and make porkies the exclusive domain of right wing populists like Trump... provided they use them to purge the progressives of course.

Who are the ones that perpetuate identity politics to the umpteenth degree? Both sides of politics do it, but one does it far more than the other, and then expects there to be harmony after it pits everyone against each other. You can blame Trump all you like, but he's is at least attempting to bring everyone together under the banner of American values - some form of civic nationalism. The 'progressives' want to divide everyone up into race, nation, religion, gender and class, with a peculiar hatred toward straight, white males, then expect there to be harmony. These differences can be exacerbated or minimised. It is devious and downright despicable that the 'progressives' think their way leads to a harmonious life.

So where did all this start? The old right used to be the purveyors of identity politics - usually a simple distinction between races and the sexes, but by the 1960s the 'progressives' took on identity politics and broke it down further into a 1,000 or more groups, each fighting against each other, in particular against whitey. If you want this paradigm of thought to end then you attack it and remove it at its source: academics.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 10:31am:

So where did all this start? The old right used to be the purveyors of identity politics - usually a simple distinction between races and the sexes, but by the 1960s the 'progressives' took on identity politics and broke it down further into a 1,000 or more groups, each fighting against each other, in particular against whitey. If you want this paradigm of thought to end then you attack it and remove it at its source: academics.

What are you drivelling about misty? Academics like the majority of anthropologists who dismiss the existence of "races"? Its the Trump fan-boys and their ilk who divide the world up into mostly fictional categories - for the sole purposes of slotting humans into a perverse hierarchy - white, hetero, male, christian at the top, gays, n******, women, foreigners etc below them - in no particular order. To claim that the likes of Trump doesn't cynically feed off and actively promote such categorising (and therefore accentuates the division this creates) is just plain bonkers.

Yes identity politics is important for 'progressives', but you are way way off the mark to associate this with creating division. It is in fact the exact opposite. Your side of politics insists that if people you find so offensive (gays, women, foreigners etc) are to be tolerated at all (and thats a mighty big if for you people), then it must be in a totally submissive way - shut up, keep your head down, and of course never open up about what makes you "you". I think this is where you are coming from. Identity is of course totally fine for the 'in-group' - the butchering and oppression and racism of their colonial ancestors must not only be celebrated but also shoved in the faces of the descendants of the victims, and anyone else who finds it a tad incensitive (c.f. the right rushing to shut down any debate about changing the Australia Day date).

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 11:09am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 10:31am: So where did all this start? The old right used to be the purveyors of identity politics - usually a simple distinction between races and the sexes, but by the 1960s the 'progressives' took on identity politics and broke it down further into a 1,000 or more groups, each fighting against each other, in particular against whitey. If you want this paradigm of thought to end then you attack it and remove it at its source: academics. What are you drivelling about misty? Academics like the majority of anthropologists who dismiss the existence of "races"? Its the Trump fan-boys and their ilk who divide the world up into mostly fictional categories - for the sole purposes of slotting humans into a perverse hierarchy - white, hetero, male, christian at the top, gays, n******, women, foreigners etc below them - in no particular order. To claim that the likes of Trump doesn't cynically feed off and actively promote such categorising (and therefore accentuates the division this creates) is just plain bonkers. Yes identity politics is important for 'progressives', but you are way way off the mark to associate this with creating division. It is in fact the exact opposite. Your side of politics insists that if people you find so offensive (gays, women, foreigners etc) are to be tolerated at all (and thats a mighty big if for you people), then it must be in a totally submissive way - shut up, keep your head down, and of course never open up about what makes you "you". I think this is where you are coming from. Identity is of course totally fine for the 'in-group' - the butchering and oppression and racism of their colonial ancestors must not only be celebrated but also shoved in the faces of the descendants of the victims, and anyone else who finds it a tad incensitive (c.f. the right rushing to shut down any debate about changing the Australia Day date).

You're, like many on the 'progressive' side, so full of contradictions. You blame the other side for inventing categories then use those categories yourself. At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Shared values equals the more likely chance of harmony. 'Progressives', as you have indicated, put the 'you' first and to hell with everyone else (although, it's really just to say 'stuff you, white heterosexual male').

There will always be 'in-out' groups. The attempt to avoid this is either dishonesty or ignorance. Civic nationalism is at least an attempt to minimise this. The other attempts are usually done through religion - at one with God, Nirvana, etc.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 27^th, 2017 at 4:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26th, 2017 at 5:38pm: moses wrote on Jan 26th, 2017 at 1:34pm: Facts are, people got sick and tired of the muslims / leftard assault on our way of life, with their lies, political correctness, hatred of the Jews & Christians, hatred of the west in general with a particular emphasis on America etc. etc.. Well it's come back to bite them, Trump, the rising anti islam parties in Europe, our own balance of power with Pauline playing a key role, it's all happening, around the globe. The leftards and the muslims can cry me a river. However they just went one step too far, so the inevitable has happened. He's even telling fibs in a thread about porkies. Talk about shameless. In the "post-truth" world, the time for linguistic navel-gazing and deconstruction is over. We need to return to a form of universally-based ethics. Everyone has basic human rights, including the right to survive and not be defamed or lied about. Truth is absolute. It's not just a collection of heterogenous narratives and multiple subjectivities. The question of Being, so important to philosophers like Heidegger, has been lost through a post-structuralist focus on language. The purpose of philosophy and ethics is unity. Post-structuralism has taken us to a place of nihilism: we only have language. Language divides sign and signified. There is no noumena or "thing in itself". All that's left of knowledge is the ontological ability point this out - to show how creatures of language are necessarily living a lie. Truth does not exist  - can't exist. We live in Plato's Cave, captured by our illusion. The way of language is to divide, separate, abstract. Hence, a form of warfare becomes normalised. There is no absolute truth, so porkies become institutionalised, and all we can do to resist them is to create our own porkies in response. In essence, this was Nietzsche's view of history, but it ignores the bonds inherent in nature. It ignores love, fraternity, family. Maternal love, for example, is too strong to be a mere social construct. It transcends humanity, it's in all of nature. The bond between all beings is important, it transcends language. It triumphs over fear and hate. Being is, essentially, all consciousness - not the atomised, abstracted version we have as beings. Unity is the very purpose of society. We come together to protect each other. We don't require an internal or external enemy. We don't need to rely on lies to protect ourselves - this is how we get into problems in the first place. Nearly all wars and pogroms start with lies. Deliberate, calculated mass porkies. The biggest lie we face today is that we're under a constant threat of attack, when the real threat is our response to this porkie - the invasions, the crackdowns, the attacks on our own privacy and our own security, along with countless, ever-changing "others". The real truth is that we are all the same. You can always spot a porkie when it goes against this fundamental truth of life. We all want love, fraternity and security. Most of us want to live and learn. And those who don't are fatally poisoned by their porkies. The first thing we can do is to shut up. Stop the porkies. Start listening. It's possible to learn to stop hating and fearing, but it takes some effort. Shalom. Salaam Aleikum. Om. Amen. One. The only language that resonates is truth. Look who's done an about face. I've been outlining the problems inherent in post-structuralism on here, and elsewhere, for years. There will be no reform unless there's wide spread de-funding of Universities and public institutions that peddle such nonsense. All this crap in the media is filtered down from the Universities.

Mistie, you don't understand the problems inherent in post-structuralism.

And if you think fake news sites and old boy porkies are filtered down from the Universities, you're poisoned too.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 10:31am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 7:44am: Good point Misty - we must ruthlessly target and defund those horrible universities that peddle "nonsense" and make porkies the exclusive domain of right wing populists like Trump... provided they use them to purge the progressives of course. Who are the ones that perpetuate identity politics to the umpteenth degree? Both sides of politics do it, but one does it far more than the other, and then expects there to be harmony after it pits everyone against each other. You can blame Trump all you like, but he's is at least attempting to bring everyone together under the banner of American values

Oh, I know. Kulture wars, innit.

Truth versus porkies: it's come down to this.

I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people.

Ah.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 12:40pm:

At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values).

Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had.

The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation.

The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step.

How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ?

Or is it just another off topic diversion ?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step.

Judging by the way you want to tie it to university education and use it as an excuse to de fund education I suspect not.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 12:40pm: At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had. The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation. The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh?

Stopped reading there. For goodness sake, put some effort into your arguments.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:23am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ?

The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now?

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:25am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. Judging by the way you want to tie it to university education and use it as an excuse to de fund education I suspect not.

That's where it began and where it gets filtered down from into the mainstream. Here's novel idea, why not teach methodologies that lead to truth? 

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:56am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:23am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ? The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now?

So it's just am irelivant diversion.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 11:01am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:56am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:23am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ? The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now? So it's just am irelivant diversion.

Nope. Why is 'post-truth' only now an issue?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:53am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:15am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 12:40pm: At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had. The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation. The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh? Stopped reading there. For goodness sake, put some effort into your arguments.

No worries, I'm reposting it minus the offending part:

it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation.

The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 11:08am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:01am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:56am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:23am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ? The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now? So it's just am irelivant diversion. Nope. Why is 'post-truth' only now an issue?

So are you condemning Trump for his lies or are you making excuses for them ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 11:12am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:53am: polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:15am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 12:40pm: At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had. The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation. The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh? Stopped reading there. For goodness sake, put some effort into your arguments. No worries, I'm reposting it minus the offending part: it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation.

The reduction to white and Anglo doesn't tell us much. They aren't values in themselves. No one says "act white" or act "Anglo". On the other hand, the crude slogan "fit in or f**k off" is an attempt to bring everyone under a shared value system. Having shared values leads to a feeling of belonging and less likely chance of conflict. Having said that, I am all for creative individuals to stand above the herd and innovate. Sadly, 99% of people aren't able to do this; therefore, shared values is the only way to keep these people from killing or abusing each other.


Quote:

The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh?

Again, you're being hypocritical. Leftists are the masters of identity politics, with their (now) 88 genders, transgender bathrooms, self-determination for all races/ethnicities (except for Europeans and their descendants). I've never denied the right play identity politics (they were the masters of it in the 19th and early 20th Centuries), but the extent of it has waned. It's moved on from biological forms of identity to cultural forms of identity. That's where we are now.

The most disturbing thing, for me, is that leftists think that having multiple diverse groups with nothing in common and within the one area will bring peace. Nothing could be further from the truth. Take the ethnic conflict in Turkey, for example. The Turks and Kurds are at loggerheads and will not compromise. The Kurds want an independent state and the Turks won't give it to them, so what follows is Turkish policemen and soldiers getting killed everyday (we don't hear it happening here, but rarely a day goes by where 1-3 soldiers/policemen are killed).

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 11:29am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:08am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:01am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:56am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:23am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ? The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now? So it's just am irelivant diversion. Nope. Why is 'post-truth' only now an issue? So are you condemning Trump for his lies or are you making excuses for them ?

'Lies' or lies?
He may be rough around the edges, but Trump has shifted, and still is shifting, the Overton Window. This is what counts. 'Victim' politics needs to be eradicated (note: not victims but 'victims'). And, the guilt and nihilism industry which paints the West as nothing but 'racist', 'sexist', 'misogynist', 'xenophobic', etc. needs to be overturned. It's like Catholicism on steroids: guilt (sin) from birth.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 11:54am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:29am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:08am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:01am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:56am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:23am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ? The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now? So it's just am irelivant diversion. Nope. Why is 'post-truth' only now an issue? So are you condemning Trump for his lies or are you making excuses for them ? 'Lies' or lies? He may be rough around the edges, but Trump has shifted, and still is shifting, the Overton Window. This is what counts. 'Victim' politics needs to be eradicated (note: not victims but 'victims'). And, the guilt and nihilism industry which paints the West as nothing but 'racist', 'sexist', 'misogynist', 'xenophobic', etc. needs to be overturned. It's like Catholicism on steroids: guilt (sin) from birth.

Answers the question in the maximum number of words.

Making excuses.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 12:40pm: At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had. The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation. The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh?

Why can only Islam demand Submission?


Ironic, eh?

Frank wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 12:36pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:15am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 12:40pm: At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had. The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation. The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh? Why can only Islam demand Submission? Ironic, eh?

Not sure that the irony is what you intended.

gandalf wrote Reply #40 - Today at 11:12am


Quote:

You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own)

OH boy talk about tugging her forelock and calling me allah.

Did the pot just call the kettle black?

islam the mother of all harlots, who actively seeks out and persecutes all people who don't fit her and the old moon god allahs' narrow religious mould.

A psychopathic prophet who deliberately lied in order to produce a people who didn't fit this narrow religious mould of islam, in order that muslims have a free rein in slaughtering and subjugating them.

gandi, gandi, gandi.

Oh well new age muslim truth.   

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:53am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:15am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 12:40pm: At least the right will try to bring everyone under a shared system of values (usually an assimilation model of some description, whereby the individual is made subordinate to the shared values). Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had. The right today really just adopt a watered down version of the same idea, and it is a complete lie to say that individual identity doesn't matter in your so called "shared values" model. When you say 'the individual is subordinate to the shared values' - what you really mean is that everyone who isn't a member of the dominant white, anglo must be subordinate to the dominant white anglo culture. And needless to say its the members of this dominant culture that makes the demands for assimilation. The truth is, individual identity and creating divisions along those lines is everything to you and your "assimilation/shared values" BS. You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own), and its you who plays "identity politics" against anyone who doesn't comply. Ironic eh? Stopped reading there. For goodness sake, put some effort into your arguments.

Stopped reading. Now that takes effort - particularly when it's post all about you.

moses wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 1:37pm:

gandalf wrote Reply #40 - Today at 11:12am Quote: You actively seek out and target anyone who doesn't fit your narrow cultural mould and persecute them for it. It is in fact you who seeks out and finds differences in individuals that are completely unnecessary. It is you who identifies a particular culture that everyone must be subordinate to (your own) OH boy talk about tugging her forelock and calling me allah. Did the pot just call the kettle black? islam the mother of all harlots, who actively seeks out and persecutes all people who don't fit her and the old moon god allahs' narrow religious mould. A psychopathic prophet who deliberately lied in order to produce a people who didn't fit this narrow religious mould of islam, in order that muslims have a free rein in slaughtering and subjugating them. gandi, gandi, gandi. Oh well new age muslim truth.

Here you go, effendes. G is now Islam.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 11:54am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:29am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:08am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:01am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:56am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 10:23am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 28th, 2017 at 4:46pm: I understand the problems created by post-structuralism better than most people. I've outlined it many times. All you do is side step. How does it relate to a President packaging lies as alternate truths ? Or is it just another off topic diversion ? The 'post-truth' fiasco begins with the post-structuralists and deconstructionists of the 1960-70s (or Sophists of 2,000 years ago to be precise). Why is it an issue in the media now? So it's just am irelivant diversion. Nope. Why is 'post-truth' only now an issue? So are you condemning Trump for his lies or are you making excuses for them ? 'Lies' or lies? He may be rough around the edges, but Trump has shifted, and still is shifting, the Overton Window. This is what counts. 'Victim' politics needs to be eradicated (note: not victims but 'victims'). And, the guilt and nihilism industry which paints the West as nothing but 'racist', 'sexist', 'misogynist', 'xenophobic', etc. needs to be overturned. It's like Catholicism on steroids: guilt (sin) from birth.

So how do you feel about the US erecting a racist/sexist/misogynist as president, Mistie?

I'm curious. I'm keen to know what you think about this. Is Trump none of these things? How about his voters? What else might be motivating them?

Or is Trump all of these things and racism/sexism/misogyny doesn't really matter?

You know, empowering white supremacists, bigots and conspiracy-theorist nut-jobs is good for civilisation - it keeps us strong and United.

Which is it to be, Mistie?

do ever get sick of viewing the world through the lenses of race, gender etc?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 1^st, 2017 at 9:23pm:

do ever get sick of viewing the world through the lenses of race, gender etc?

Oh look, you evaded the question. FD would be proud.

FD? If you don't mind me saying, you've gone pretty quiet.

Cat got your tongue?

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 4:38am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 1st, 2017 at 9:23pm: do ever get sick of viewing the world through the lenses of race, gender etc? Oh look, you evaded the question. FD would be proud. FD? If you don't mind me saying, you've gone pretty quiet. Cat got your tongue?

the questions were virtue signalling.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

Sure, it worked a treat under Nazi Germany - except of course if you were jewish, gay, intellectually disabled etc, in that case it kinda mattered what individual "identity" you had.

It certainly helped in those times if you were a Muslim. Do you wish to revive the era, persecution of the jews etc. One of your persuasion help design the whole operation so Hitler could kill as many in the shortest possible time. You would know his name Gandalf he founded the Muslim Brotherhood. Are you a member? I believe the US are going to name it as a terrorist organization.

Perhaps it may for the better if you handed in your MB badge now and join Hizb ut-Tahrir ;D

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 9:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2017 at 4:38am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 1st, 2017 at 9:23pm: do ever get sick of viewing the world through the lenses of race, gender etc? Oh look, you evaded the question. FD would be proud. FD? If you don't mind me saying, you've gone pretty quiet. Cat got your tongue? the questions were virtue signalling.

Here's a new evasion technique, FD. Virtue signalling.

Mistie's too virtuous to answer a question.

Cunning, no?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 9:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2017 at 4:38am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 1st, 2017 at 9:23pm: do ever get sick of viewing the world through the lenses of race, gender etc? Oh look, you evaded the question. FD would be proud. FD? If you don't mind me saying, you've gone pretty quiet. Cat got your tongue? the questions were virtue signalling.

Here's a new evasion technique, FD. Virtue signalling.

Mistie's too virtuous to answer a question.

Cunning, no?

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 1:48pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 2nd, 2017 at 9:47am: Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2017 at 4:38am: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 1st, 2017 at 9:23pm: do ever get sick of viewing the world through the lenses of race, gender etc? Oh look, you evaded the question. FD would be proud. FD? If you don't mind me saying, you've gone pretty quiet. Cat got your tongue? the questions were virtue signalling. Here's a new evasion technique, FD. Virtue signalling. Mistie's too virtuous to answer a question. Cunning, no?

Double post, More than cunning, No? ;D

Sorry Brian Ross taught me that smilies meant something. As yet however have not been able to fully comprehend the meaning,. Should I buy an AK47 and attempt genocide, along with other muslims?

Peter Hartcher usually gets things spot-on. Here he is on truth and porkies:


Quote:

A former speechwriter for George W. Bush, David Frum, argued in The Atlantic that rather than extinguish the media altogether, "modern strongmen seek merely to discredit journalism as an institution, by denying that such a thing as independent judgment can exist. All reporting serves an agenda. There is no truth, only competing attempts to grab power." Russian-born journalist Masha Gessen says that Trump and Putin are alike: "Lying is the message." They lie blatantly, she said, "to assert power over truth itself".

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/donald-trump-has-given-two-great-gifts-to-china-20170206-gu6djn.html

fake news about fake news?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 14^th, 2017 at 4:45pm:

fake news about fake news?

You think?

No worries. We all know what you think about porkies, Mistie.

You told us, remember?