link

What's the lesson to be learnt here?

Here in Australia we've just had two experienced young female 'equestrians' killed while riding horses.

What exactly is the problem that's making these unfortunate incidences happen to young riders who have been around horses all their lives?

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

link What's the lesson to be learnt here? Here in Australia we've just had two experienced young female 'equestrians' killed while riding horses. What exactly is the problem that's making these unfortunate incidences happen to young riders who have been around horses all their lives?

Sir, sir, I know the answer!

The horses were Alpha males.

The riders were Beta females.

=====> CLASH  :P

Sh!tt happens?

Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua...

Do we really need to encourage Horse Boy?

Isn't it obvious what he's going to say?

Setanta wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 10:42pm:

Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua...

You only wonder? And only sometimes?

mothra wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 10:47pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:42pm: Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua... You only wonder? And only sometimes?

What are you saying Mothra? It may have happened to me too? ;D

Setanta wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 11:35pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:47pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:42pm: Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua... You only wonder? And only sometimes? What are you saying Mothra? It may have happened to me too? ;D

Well, did you ever let a horse know you weren't an alpha male?

mothra wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 11:50pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 11:35pm: mothra wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:47pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:42pm: Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua... You only wonder? And only sometimes? What are you saying Mothra? It may have happened to me too? ;D Well, did you ever let a horse know you weren't an alpha male?

I've never fallen off a horse and never been thrown. I guess they just knew.

Or I have never been on one!

I have though.

Setanta wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:01am:

mothra wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 11:50pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 11:35pm: mothra wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:47pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:42pm: Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua... You only wonder? And only sometimes? What are you saying Mothra? It may have happened to me too? ;D Well, did you ever let a horse know you weren't an alpha male? I've never fallen off a horse and never been thrown. I guess they just knew. Or I have never been on one! I have though.

Im an experienced rider and I've both fallen off and been thrown.

It's a hazard of the activity.

I once cleared a jump at a 3 day event that my horse didn't.

Also I've broken more than a few horses in. You've got to expect to come off every now and then.

It's all in how you fall.

Got trapped under a horse once and dragged for 10 metres on asphalt . Unshod horse hit a slippery spot at full gallop. I still bear the scars.

It's a risky endeavour if you're riding hard.

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:19am:

Setanta wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:01am: mothra wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 11:50pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 11:35pm: mothra wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:47pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 10:42pm: Sometimes I wonder if that has happened to Aqua... You only wonder? And only sometimes? What are you saying Mothra? It may have happened to me too? ;D Well, did you ever let a horse know you weren't an alpha male? I've never fallen off a horse and never been thrown. I guess they just knew. Or I have never been on one! I have though. Im an experienced rider and I've both fallen off and been thrown. It's a hazard of the activity. I once cleared a jump at a 3 day event that my horse didn't. Also I've broken more than a few horses in. You've got to expect to come off every now and then. It's all in how you fall. Got trapped under a horse once and dragged for 10 metres on asphalt . Unshod horse hit a slippery spot at full gallop. I still bear the scars. It's a risky endeavour if you're riding hard.

I like that! ;D

I have been over the handle bars of push bikes and motor bikes trying to do stupid stuff.

I should hastily qualify that I wasn't galloping on asphalt, I was galloping on an uncovered road that met asphalt.

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:27am:

I should hastily qualify that I wasn't galloping on asphalt, I was galloping on an uncovered road that met asphalt.

Shouldn't gallop a horse on asphalt so it's a good thing you came off when you did. ;D

Setanta wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:33am:

mothra wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:27am: I should hastily qualify that I wasn't galloping on asphalt, I was galloping on an uncovered road that met asphalt. Shouldn't gallop a horse on asphalt so it's a good thing you came off when you did. ;D

Yeah the horse was slow to respond. It was used to a hackamore and i was riding him with a bit. I think my trying to pull him up, hard, contributed to the fall.  Wasn't the most responsive of mounts.

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:40am:

Setanta wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:33am: mothra wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:27am: I should hastily qualify that I wasn't galloping on asphalt, I was galloping on an uncovered road that met asphalt. Shouldn't gallop a horse on asphalt so it's a good thing you came off when you did. ;D Yeah the horse was slow to respond. It was used to a hackamore and i was riding him with a bit. I think my trying to pull him up, hard, contributed to the fall.  Wasn't the most responsive of mounts.

I used to have a girlfriend that signed all her letters with HFE. Still have them somewhere. Horses for ever. You are not ... are you? ;D

Setanta wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:43am:

mothra wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:40am: Setanta wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:33am: mothra wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:27am: I should hastily qualify that I wasn't galloping on asphalt, I was galloping on an uncovered road that met asphalt. Shouldn't gallop a horse on asphalt so it's a good thing you came off when you did. ;D Yeah the horse was slow to respond. It was used to a hackamore and i was riding him with a bit. I think my trying to pull him up, hard, contributed to the fall.  Wasn't the most responsive of mounts. I used to have a girlfriend that signed all her letters with HFE. Still have them somewhere. Horses for ever. You are not ... are you? ;D

Awesome bless. No not me. Although I do stand accused of signing certain Christmas cards with my and my horses name.

I was pre-boyfriend age when I did that though.

I wonder how Horse Boy signs his Christmas cards?

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:50am:

Setanta wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:43am: mothra wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:40am: Setanta wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:33am: mothra wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:27am: I should hastily qualify that I wasn't galloping on asphalt, I was galloping on an uncovered road that met asphalt. Shouldn't gallop a horse on asphalt so it's a good thing you came off when you did. ;D Yeah the horse was slow to respond. It was used to a hackamore and i was riding him with a bit. I think my trying to pull him up, hard, contributed to the fall.  Wasn't the most responsive of mounts. I used to have a girlfriend that signed all her letters with HFE. Still have them somewhere. Horses for ever. You are not ... are you? ;D Awesome bless. No not me. Although I do stand accused of signing certain Christmas cards with my and my horses name. I was pre-boyfriend age when I did that though. I wonder how Horse Boy signs his Christmas cards?

Maaaarey Christmas.

There can be only one!

I wonder if Horse Boy has ever dealt with unbroken whalers. With brumbies. With horses so abused they shy from feeding.

Horses broken in with bailing twine holding rusty bits to overtight girth belts and tied to posts.

I know how to "break in" an already broken horse.

I've  ever met a horse that hasn't been traumatised.

A reality I don't share with Horse Boy ... who occupies the sanitised end of horse dealing

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

link What's the lesson to be learnt here? Here in Australia we've just had two experienced young female 'equestrians' killed while riding horses. What exactly is the problem that's making these unfortunate incidences happen to young riders who have been around horses all their life?

eventing  and especially cross country are extremely dangerous activities herb.
jumping solid logs, big concrete pipes and walls of tractor tyres at full pace.
both girls were top class riders and both were killed when the horse stumbled and landed on top of them. 500 kg on top of you at full speed is devestating.
It is a sport i would never have the guts to do, so i take my hat off to them.
their deaths were certainly nothing to do with a lack of understanding of the alpha and beta dynamics of a herd.

But you do have to understand how when dealing with a prey animal , many things are counter - intuitive.
And this is where both men and women go wrong.

A horse is nearly always in flight mode, this is how they survived on the plains without being eaten, the first sign of danger and they run.
The peck order is really about grazing rights, breeding rights and who do we follow when the wolf comes.

So they rely on good solid confident leadership.

If you give food to a horse (as many people do to try to bond with it), you are lowering your status and it is less likely to feel confident about the decisions you make under saddle.
If you are riding a horse and it starts to get anxious (say it sees a roo jump out) , if you go "there, there good boy its all alright" you are rewarding anxiety and will increase the horses flight response.
If you get angry with it and get emotional , it will become fearful and you will increase its flight response.


Mothra wrote that she came off when riding in a hackamore and felt she may have been safer with a bit.
There are 2 ways of looking at this.
a hackamore is like having just a rope around his nose, a bit is having metal on his sensitive teeth.
Now a horse will respond more to a metal bit ,but the idea is to be as gentle on the bit as possible.
Everytime you pull on a bit , you are causing a bit of pain which makes the horse "move away from the pain".
So inducing pain in a flight animal is not a good idea and bad riders who use the reins and bit to balance themselves will really freak a horse out.
I teach all my horses to neck rein which means that you give them a touch on the neck with the rein before you use the bit and , because they are smart, they will learn, "oh he's about to use the bit if i dont turn right" and they move off the rein and you never have to use the bit.

But horses are very big powerful and dangerous animals.
they are particularly unforgiving to those who are new to the sport and it gets safer the more you deal with them.
You cannot ride one in a durrrrr state, its why i like them, you can ride a bike or drive a car in a durrrr state but horse riding like skiing down a steep hill requires absolute mindfulness and induces a flow state

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 1:20am:

I wonder if Horse Boy has ever dealt with unbroken whalers. With brumbies. With horses so abused they shy from feeding. Horses broken in with bailing twine holding rusty bits to overtight girth belts and tied to posts. I know how to "break in" an already broken horse. I've  ever met a horse that hasn't been traumatised. A reality I don't share with Horse Boy ... who occupies the sanitised end of horse dealing

haha  most of the horse that i deal with are rescues from doggers or off the track thoroughbreds, so i know all about trauma.

a traumatised horse, like a traumatised woman is looking for an assertive confident mindful consistent leader where they can seek comfort and feel relaxed.

they most certainly dont come good by being fed carrots, having little girls put pink ribbins in their hair and plait their mane.

they like to hang out with a good leader who approaches them with a spirit of contribution and consistent expectations and a well thought out training schedule, delivered in a non judegmental and unemotional way.

horses, like people on welfare, benefit from the superior , no nonsense, grounded rightard.

I bet Hansen Young had a pony and i bet it was a neurotic emotional wreck  ;) ;) ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 6:04am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 9:03pm: link What's the lesson to be learnt here? Here in Australia we've just had two experienced young female 'equestrians' killed while riding horses. What exactly is the problem that's making these unfortunate incidences happen to young riders who have been around horses all their life? eventing  and especially cross country are extremely dangerous activities herb. jumping solid logs, big concrete pipes and walls of tractor tyres at full pace. both girls were top class riders and both were killed when the horse stumbled and landed on top of them. 500 kg on top of you at full speed is devestating. It is a sport i would never have the guts to do, so i take my hat off to them. their deaths were certainly nothing to do with a lack of understanding of the alpha and beta dynamics of a herd. But you do have to understand how when dealing with a prey animal , many things are counter - intuitive. And this is where both men and women go wrong. A horse is nearly always in flight mode, this is how they survived on the plains without being eaten, the first sign of danger and they run. The peck order is really about grazing rights, breeding rights and who do we follow when the wolf comes. So they rely on good solid confident leadership. If you give food to a horse (as many people do to try to bond with it), you are lowering your status and it is less likely to feel confident about the decisions you make under saddle. If you are riding a horse and it starts to get anxious (say it sees a roo jump out) , if you go "there, there good boy its all alright" you are rewarding anxiety and will increase the horses flight response. If you get angry with it and get emotional , it will become fearful and you will increase its flight response. Mothra wrote that she came off when riding in a hackamore and felt she may have been safer with a bit. There are 2 ways of looking at this. a hackamore is like having just a rope around his nose, a bit is having metal on his sensitive teeth. Now a horse will respond more to a metal bit ,but the idea is to be as gentle on the bit as possible. Everytime you pull on a bit , you are causing a bit of pain which makes the horse "move away from the pain". So inducing pain in a flight animal is not a good idea and bad riders who use the reins and bit to balance themselves will really freak a horse out. I teach all my horses to neck rein which means that you give them a touch on the neck with the rein before you use the bit and , because they are smart, they will learn, "oh he's about to use the bit if i dont turn right" and they move off the rein and you never have to use the bit. But horses are very big powerful and dangerous animals. they are particularly unforgiving to those who are new to the sport and it gets safer the more you deal with them. You cannot ride one in a durrrrr state, its why i like them, you can ride a bike or drive a car in a durrrr state but horse riding like skiing down a steep hill requires absolute mindfulness and induces a flow state

OMG....you really ARE into this.

Ever thought of changing your nic to : The Horse Whisperer?

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 8:15am:

OMG....you really ARE into this.

there's our Lisa  :D :D :D...

sharp as a tack this one, nothing gets past her    ;D ;D ;D

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 8:15am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 6:04am: Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 9:03pm: link What's the lesson to be learnt here? Here in Australia we've just had two experienced young female 'equestrians' killed while riding horses. What exactly is the problem that's making these unfortunate incidences happen to young riders who have been around horses all their life? eventing  and especially cross country are extremely dangerous activities herb. jumping solid logs, big concrete pipes and walls of tractor tyres at full pace. both girls were top class riders and both were killed when the horse stumbled and landed on top of them. 500 kg on top of you at full speed is devestating. It is a sport i would never have the guts to do, so i take my hat off to them. their deaths were certainly nothing to do with a lack of understanding of the alpha and beta dynamics of a herd. But you do have to understand how when dealing with a prey animal , many things are counter - intuitive. And this is where both men and women go wrong. A horse is nearly always in flight mode, this is how they survived on the plains without being eaten, the first sign of danger and they run. The peck order is really about grazing rights, breeding rights and who do we follow when the wolf comes. So they rely on good solid confident leadership. If you give food to a horse (as many people do to try to bond with it), you are lowering your status and it is less likely to feel confident about the decisions you make under saddle. If you are riding a horse and it starts to get anxious (say it sees a roo jump out) , if you go "there, there good boy its all alright" you are rewarding anxiety and will increase the horses flight response. If you get angry with it and get emotional , it will become fearful and you will increase its flight response. Mothra wrote that she came off when riding in a hackamore and felt she may have been safer with a bit. There are 2 ways of looking at this. a hackamore is like having just a rope around his nose, a bit is having metal on his sensitive teeth. Now a horse will respond more to a metal bit ,but the idea is to be as gentle on the bit as possible. Everytime you pull on a bit , you are causing a bit of pain which makes the horse "move away from the pain". So inducing pain in a flight animal is not a good idea and bad riders who use the reins and bit to balance themselves will really freak a horse out. I teach all my horses to neck rein which means that you give them a touch on the neck with the rein before you use the bit and , because they are smart, they will learn, "oh he's about to use the bit if i dont turn right" and they move off the rein and you never have to use the bit. But horses are very big powerful and dangerous animals. they are particularly unforgiving to those who are new to the sport and it gets safer the more you deal with them. You cannot ride one in a durrrrr state, its why i like them, you can ride a bike or drive a car in a durrrr state but horse riding like skiing down a steep hill requires absolute mindfulness and induces a flow state OMG....you really ARE into this. Ever thought of changing your nic to : The Horse Whisperer?

PS. I think it's great that you rescue these animals  :)

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:19am:

Im an experienced rider and I've both fallen off and been thrown. It's a hazard of the activity. I once cleared a jump at a 3 day event that my horse didn't. Also I've broken more than a few horses in. You've got to expect to come off every now and then. It's all in how you fall. Got trapped under a horse once and dragged for 10 metres on asphalt . Unshod horse hit a slippery spot at full gallop. I still bear the scars. It's a risky endeavour if you're riding hard.

Wow, I'm impressed.

I'll make sure to sit you next to Aquascoot if I ever get around to standing the Ozpolitic membership to a dinner at one of the more posh hotels here in Sydney ...

mothra wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:50am:

Awesome bless. No not me. Although I do stand accused of signing certain Christmas cards with my and my horses name. I was pre-boyfriend age when I did that though. I wonder how Horse Boy signs his Christmas cards?

;D ;D ;D

That's enough of that. Aquascoot's good value on this board.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 6:09am:

I bet Hansen Young had a pony and i bet it was a neurotic emotional wreck  ;) ;) ;)

;D ;D ;D

***

Apart from the laughs, it's obvious you know your horses and women, Aqua.

It might be time you came out with a book ... "Horses and Women for Dummies" - with a Foreword by Mothra.

John Smith wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 8:15am: OMG....you really ARE into this. there's our Lisa  :D :D :D... sharp as a tack this one, nothing gets past her    ;D ;D ;D

;D ;D ;D

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 10:03am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 6:09am: I bet Hansen Young had a pony and i bet it was a neurotic emotional wreck  ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D *** Apart from the laughs, it's obvious you know your horses and women, Aqua. It might be time you came out with a book ... "Horses and Women for Dummies" - with a Foreword by Mothra.

I get very frustrated by women dealing with horses for the following reason.
Horses are very aggressive with lower horses, i mean, they are quite brutal to a new horse and will gang up on it and bully it.
And if you are supplicating to a horse as many women are, if you dont use assertiveness, then it will simply not respect you or your kids and it will (often out of fear at having a weak leader)  bite you and your kids, kick you and your kids and buck off you and your kids.

And what happens then?

Oh that horse is dangerous , that horse is mean, call the vet, give him the green needle.

Women (because 80 % of horses in OZ are owned by women) who think that loving on the animal helps it and it ends up being euthenased.

Same with how we need to deal with dumbies in the community.
Be assertive and good leaders.
People like cry baby do-gooders loving on the dumbies,results in the dumbies becoming mean and dangerous.
We owe it to the dumbies to be assertive and train them properly

You're a Beacon on the Hill, Aqua, and I hope one day you will be Required Reading for all young women contemplating marriage for the first time.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:29am:

You're a Beacon on the Hill, Aqua, and I hope one day you will be Required Reading for all young women contemplating marriage for the first time.

marriage is really plugging into group think.
it hands over power to the church and to the government.
you'd have to be a brain dead beta male to get involved.

i can commit to my kelpies and my quarterhorses that we are going to have a partnership for life , so why not a woman.  WTF does it have to do with canberra or Rome or Mecca . ;) ;)

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 10:17am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 10:03am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 6:09am: I bet Hansen Young had a pony and i bet it was a neurotic emotional wreck  ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D *** Apart from the laughs, it's obvious you know your horses and women, Aqua. It might be time you came out with a book ... "Horses and Women for Dummies" - with a Foreword by Mothra. I get very frustrated by women dealing with horses for the following reason. Horses are very aggressive with lower horses, i mean, they are quite brutal to a new horse and will gang up on it and bully it. And if you are supplicating to a horse as many women are, if you dont use assertiveness, then it will simply not respect you or your kids and it will (often out of fear at having a weak leader)  bite you and your kids, kick you and your kids and buck off you and your kids. And what happens then? Oh that horse is dangerous , that horse is mean, call the vet, give him the green needle. Women (because 80 % of horses in OZ are owned by women) who think that loving on the animal helps it and it ends up being euthenased. Same with how we need to deal with dumbies in the community. Be assertive and good leaders. People like cry baby do-gooders loving on the dumbies,results in the dumbies becoming mean and dangerous. We owe it to the dumbies to be assertive and train them properly

My ex had horses and as far as I could tell they knew their place.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:44am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:29am: You're a Beacon on the Hill, Aqua, and I hope one day you will be Required Reading for all young women contemplating marriage for the first time. marriage is really plugging into group think. it hands over power to the church and to the government. you'd have to be a brain dead beta male to get involved. i can commit to my kelpies and my quarterhorses that we are going to have a partnership for life , so why not a woman.  WTF does it have to do with canberra or Rome or Mecca . ;) ;)

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 11:29am:

You're a Beacon on the Hill, Aqua, and I hope one day you will be Required Reading for all young women contemplating marriage for the first time.

Too late - my daughter took the jump on 28th May.....

aquascoot wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 10:17am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 10:03am: aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 6:09am: I bet Hansen Young had a pony and i bet it was a neurotic emotional wreck  ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D *** Apart from the laughs, it's obvious you know your horses and women, Aqua. It might be time you came out with a book ... "Horses and Women for Dummies" - with a Foreword by Mothra. I get very frustrated by women dealing with horses for the following reason. Horses are very aggressive with lower horses, i mean, they are quite brutal to a new horse and will gang up on it and bully it. And if you are supplicating to a horse as many women are, if you dont use assertiveness, then it will simply not respect you or your kids and it will (often out of fear at having a weak leader)  bite you and your kids, kick you and your kids and buck off you and your kids. And what happens then? Oh that horse is dangerous , that horse is mean, call the vet, give him the green needle. Women (because 80 % of horses in OZ are owned by women) who think that loving on the animal helps it and it ends up being euthenased. Same with how we need to deal with dumbies in the community. Be assertive and good leaders. People like cry baby do-gooders loving on the dumbies,results in the dumbies becoming mean and dangerous. We owe it to the dumbies to be assertive and train them properly

10/10