this is the left


Quote:

CFA board sacked by Victorian Government in bitter dispute over pay and conditions The Victorian Government has made good on its promise to sack the board of the Country Fire Authority (CFA) after it failed to accept its latest offer over pay and conditions, despite the Supreme Court granting an urgent injunction to stop the board from voting on it. The Government gave an ultimatum it would begin proceedings to remove the board by 5:00pm if the amended deal put forward by Cabinet was not agreed to. But shortly after, volunteer firefighters were granted an urgent injunction by the court to stop the CFA from voting on it until June 22. Despite this, Deputy Premier James Merlino, who was appointed as Emergency Services Minister following the resignation of Jane Garrett on Friday morning, said the Government had moved to sack the board. "I do not have confidence in the ability of the board to end a dispute that has gone on for far too long and to deliver the reform that the Country Fire Authority needs to keep our community safe," Mr Merlino said in a statement. Volunteer Fire Brigades Victoria argued in court that the CFA board breached its legal duty by failing to consult volunteers on the EBA, and the CFA did not oppose the move. The CFA's leadership team earlier said it had received advice from the Government's senior crown counsel that reaffirmed parts of the agreement were unlawful. It was concerned about a clause in the proposed EBA requiring them to have at least seven paid firefighters on the scene of every incident, and a push to prevent volunteers issuing orders. 'Enormous divide' between management and firefighters Mr Merlino said additional safeguards had been made to the agreement to address the issues raised by the CFA, but their refusal was not the sole reason for the decision to sack the board. He said the recent inquiry into Fiskville and a recent review of the fire services found "significant cultural and governance failures", morale was low and there was "an enormous divide between senior management and firefighters". "Volunteer and career firefighters have told us they're sick of being used as a political football - they want this fixed so they can focus on fighting fires and keeping their communities safe," he said. Opposition Leader Matthew Guy said the Government was "smashing up the CFA" for a political payback. "Daniel Andrews has bullied his minister out of a job, he's about to sack the CFA board, he's going to sack the CFA CEO, who he proudly appointed not even 12 months ago," Mr Guy said. Firefighters' dispute explained "No one agrees with him. It's his way or the highway. "The CFA is in his way because it's standing in the way between him paying back a small but militant union that got him the job." Premier Daniel Andrews said clauses would be inserted into the agreement to protect volunteer firefighters. "I was not prepared ... to continue to have this dispute drag on dangerously in a bitter and spiteful distraction from the important work of fighting fire and keeping our communities safe," he said. "I am more determined than ever, having got this deal done, to focus on the reform that must be made to deal with culture and to deal with performance in the Country Fire Authority."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-10/cfa-board-sacked-by-victorian-government/7500518

-Would love true facts being presented rather than all these myths people put out. 

- Did you know the firefighters had not have a new EBA for about 8 years?  That's no increase in wages for 6 years - if one assume CPI is about 2%, then that's about 12% wage drop by now (using the formula 0.98^6).  That's quite a conservative estimate since CPI has been more than 2%.

- The so called 7 fighters on scene has been misinterpreted.  What I heard is that as long as total of 7 dispatched (on the way) and not on arrival, is when the career firefighters take active action. CFA can continue to do what they need to do regardless.

Any other misconceptions/lies/ignorance people still have?

stunspore wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:15pm:

-Would love true facts being presented rather than all these myths people put out.  - Did you know the firefighters had not have a new EBA for about 8 years?  That's no increase in wages for 6 years - if one assume CPI is about 2%, then that's about 12% wage drop by now (using the formula 0.98^6).  That's quite a conservative estimate since CPI has been more than 2%. - The so called 7 fighters on scene has been misinterpreted.  What I heard is that as long as total of 7 dispatched (on the way) and not on arrival, is when the career firefighters take active action. CFA can continue to do what they need to do regardless. Any other misconceptions/lies/ignorance people still have?

Got it in one, Stun, but we can't have the facts get in the way of a good rant, can we???

How exactly are the CFA volunteers being sold out?

The fair work people did approve this agreement - the independent people.

another sticking point is where there is conflict between CFA and UFU -> that there needs to be consultation over disputes between the two parties.  nothing wrong in putting to paper how to resolve conflicts.

A short summary:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2016/06/06/why-is-the-cfa-fighting-the-ufu-crikey/

It doesn't seem to have lib spin (or lab either) so my guess is it might not make sense to the lib supporters. 

'He has rightly cited the Fair Work Commission's non-binding recommendations that say volunteers will not be worse off, but the CFA's legal advice - written by the government's own counsel - says the agreement is unlawful because it breaches equality and diversity laws.'

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cfa-crisis-andrews-didnt-start-the-fire-but-he-sure-made-it-worse-20160610-gpg57l.html#ixzz4BB1Kwaab

At least the minister sheila quit..... resignation accepted....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

At least the minister sheila quit..... resignation accepted....

Yeah, because she accepted the legal position.. How bizarre that you don't want the rule of law.

lee wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:24pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 9:58pm: At least the minister sheila quit..... resignation accepted.... Yeah, because she accepted the legal position.. How bizarre that you don't want the rule of law.

Apparently the problem was that she was playing the men and not the game... making out she was a good ol' girl and on the side of the poor beleaguered CFA... when the CFA stood to lose nothing in the agreement and the whole thing was a beat-up by the media.

That's how it looks from here..... she was given the facts and figures and realities, and given the choice of being a loyal Party member and accepting things as written - or offer her resignation.  She offered - the government accepted.

Your idea of the 'legal position' is?  What? 

I love it when the 'righties' extend their virulent hatred of Unions to the service Unions that preserve and protect their property.....

Next let's get the Nurse's Unions since they currently hold so much power, with 12% of the Australian economy dependent on health provision... let's neuter the Police Association and prevent them screeching about 'softcock' judges etc..... let's cop the Ambos and make an example of their Union since they are just a bunch of layabouts anyway...

One day you low-class peasants in reality will understand that the ONLY reason you get the education and opportunities and protections in work you do is because men brave and true stood up for a fair shake in the profits of industry and a fair go for all and not just the 'born to prosper' lot .... those men were called 'Unions'.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:44pm:

I love it when the 'righties' extend their virulent hatred of Unions to the service Unions that preserve and protect their property..... Next let's get the Nurse's Unions since they currently hold so much power, with 12% of the Australian economy dependent on health provision... let's neuter the Police Association and prevent them screeching about 'softcock' judges etc..... let's cop the Ambos and make an example of their Union since they are just a bunch of layabouts anyway... One day you low-class peasants in reality will understand that the ONLY reason you get the education and opportunities and protections in work you do is because men brave and true stood up for a fair shake in the profits of industry and a fair go for all and not just the 'born to prosper' lot .... those men were called 'Unions'.

Not sure about that Grap. I don't see any righty ever dumping on the police union and trying to break them. They are the ones that protect them, not the firefighters.

lee wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:55pm:

'He has rightly cited the Fair Work Commission's non-binding recommendations that say volunteers will not be worse off, but the CFA's legal advice - written by the government's own counsel - says the agreement is unlawful because it breaches equality and diversity laws.' http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cfa-crisis-andrews-didnt-start-the-fire-but-he-sure-made-it-worse-20160610-gpg57l.html#ixzz4BB1Kwaab

fair work approved something that breaches?  perhaps a simple rewording?

Setanta wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:44pm: I love it when the 'righties' extend their virulent hatred of Unions to the service Unions that preserve and protect their property..... Next let's get the Nurse's Unions since they currently hold so much power, with 12% of the Australian economy dependent on health provision... let's neuter the Police Association and prevent them screeching about 'softcock' judges etc..... let's cop the Ambos and make an example of their Union since they are just a bunch of layabouts anyway... One day you low-class peasants in reality will understand that the ONLY reason you get the education and opportunities and protections in work you do is because men brave and true stood up for a fair shake in the profits of industry and a fair go for all and not just the 'born to prosper' lot .... those men were called 'Unions'. Not sure about that Grap. I don't see any righty ever dumping on the police union and trying to break them. They are the ones that protect them, not the firefighters.

I'm just saying that once they start on ONE essential service Union - what is to hold them back from the rest?

Why not revert everyone, including essential services, to absolute servitude and touching the forelock to the lords...

"'Ere now, Plod!  Nah don't bet gettin' above yer station!  When the Laird says you kick them drunken shearers inta loine - that's what ye do!"

My uncle, a police officer for fifty years.... never once subscribed to the idea that in the country towns where he worked, he should be beholden or in any way controlled by the 'squatocracy' and their mates.

What we are seeing here is the 'born to rule' idea that rapes the mind of every person elected or promoted to office in this country... suddenly by holding a 'position' they somehow become imbued with the Divine Right to do as Kings and Queens and Other Sovereigns..... and 'inherit' the Divine Right to dictate to those of 'lesser' stature and 'position'.

We've seen this with Labor women and their demand that either companies have 50% women in the top slots or they suffer legislation that will enforce that.... we've seen the shenanigans of Joey and Tony and their like for years....

NONE of these twerps thinks that their elected office is anything LESS than some absolute 'mandate' to dictate to the peasantry - who will take it and love it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B76s0SF47xw

stunspore wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:47pm:

lee wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 9:55pm: 'He has rightly cited the Fair Work Commission's non-binding recommendations that say volunteers will not be worse off, but the CFA's legal advice - written by the government's own counsel - says the agreement is unlawful because it breaches equality and diversity laws.' http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cfa-crisis-andrews-didnt-start-the-fire-but-he-sure-made-it-worse-20160610-gpg57l.html#ixzz4BB1Kwaab fair work approved something that breaches?  perhaps a simple rewording?

HOW does it breach anything.. apart from those rather generalised 'equality' clauses that are so malleable and are subject to the whim of every politician or croney who comes along, and which only apply as long as it fits the party line?

Hermann Goering, when confronted by a NAZI over his house butler, who was Jewish, said:- "I will determine who is and who is NOT a Jew here!"

You can look at this from many directions - but the point here is that a Rule cannot be malleable and at the whim of a politician or party.....

My Jewish ancestors left Hamburg in the 1850's to come here and establish a business worth millions today... so don't point fingers at me over Semitism or its opposite .... I merely point out the mechanism of these things and post, academically, the functionings of them.  I do not make moral judgements (until and unless it suits me)....

I don't know the details either.

But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods.

What possible impact could the reality that has persisted for so long, that there are paid firefighters who are professional and do it for a living, and that there are volunteers - be changed by some pay deal for those paid?

HOW does that impact on the work of the unpaid volunteers?  HOW does this equate in any way to Union control of operational matters?  How does a pay deal and a conditions deal and an OH & S deal adversely affect volunteers, when it gives them more solid guarantees of safety etc?

Because they might have to accept orders from qualified and trained professionals?

What a hard life.......

So the Army Reserve, committed to a major conflict, should NOT accept control by trained and experienced professionals?  Jesus God... think of the casualty rate..... anyone remember Kokoda and the two Militia battalions committed to its first defence?

stunspore wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 1:36am:

I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods.

The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:44pm:

I love it when the 'righties' extend their virulent hatred of Unions to the service Unions that preserve and protect their property..... Next let's get the Nurse's Unions since they currently hold so much power, with 12% of the Australian economy dependent on health provision... let's neuter the Police Association and prevent them screeching about 'softcock' judges etc..... let's cop the Ambos and make an example of their Union since they are just a bunch of layabouts anyway... One day you low-class peasants in reality will understand that the ONLY reason you get the education and opportunities and protections in work you do is because men brave and true stood up for a fair shake in the profits of industry and a fair go for all and not just the 'born to prosper' lot .... those men were called 'Unions'.

Hear, hear......

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:29am:

stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now.

WRONG!!
It's clowns like you.....

Lobo wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 8:10am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. WRONG!! It's clowns like you.....

Why is Andrews so intent on having VOLUNTEERS join a Union?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:29am:

stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now.

Actually when politicians take sides publicly then it becomes political.  You can't deny the libs have taken a side to this.  The firefighters' union haven't gone political because they certainly are not a political party.  They might (like all entities, even businesses) have a side they prefer but their primary focus isn't political.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 8:24am:

Lobo wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:10am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. WRONG!! It's clowns like you..... Why is Andrews so intent on having VOLUNTEERS join a Union?

Evidence?  Wish the non-Victorians will get their facts right...I mean I don't comment on Sydney stuff if I don't have the facts for it. 

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 8:24am:

Lobo wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:10am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. WRONG!! It's clowns like you..... Why is Andrews so intent on having VOLUNTEERS join a Union?

This thread is hurting... Look at the Labor/union shyte  like the pretend soldier deleting threads to cover this up

50000  VOLUNTEERS  ARE PISSED OFF    >:( >:( >:( >:(

Labor sees the volunteer work force as cannon fodder for the unions and a source of funds.
Otherwise it hates volunteers. They are counter-revolutionaries.
Once they start this it will be the death of volunteering.

So in other words, these non-Vic libs have no clue (or perhaps no clue?) about the actual CFA-UFU dispute?  I mean, I placed a link before - do read before making a wrong comment, vs the current ignorant comments being made?

stunspore wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:41pm:

The fair work people did approve this agreement - the independent people.

is that the same people that approved the coles agreement ? :D :D :D

I am a Volunteer Fire Fighter, just not in Victoria. I am just wary of any flow on effects of the "agreement".

There appears to be a UFU led attack to take control of volunteers. Glad  for  all those that think that it is a win/win.

stunspore wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 9:02am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. Actually when politicians take sides publicly then it becomes political.  You can't deny the libs have taken a side to this.  The firefighters' union haven't gone political because they certainly are not a political party.  They might (like all entities, even businesses) have a side they prefer but their primary focus isn't political.

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/448/4489038/2866426-0647010074-d6c47.jpg

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 10:17am:

stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 9:02am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. Actually when politicians take sides publicly then it becomes political.  You can't deny the libs have taken a side to this.  The firefighters' union haven't gone political because they certainly are not a political party.  They might (like all entities, even businesses) have a side they prefer but their primary focus isn't political. http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/448/4489038/2866426-0647010074-d6c47.jpg

makes you wonder what he thinks the Premier of the State is if not a politician..?? ::) ::)

oh well Crikey know more than anyone else.... it seems!

cods wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 10:29am:

makes you wonder what he thinks the Premier of the State is if not a politician..?? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

what has the premier got to do with the firefighters union? :D :D

The biggest difficulty facing equalities and the continuing upward mobility of economic and social power shared equally across society, is not the addiction of Labor to Unions - but the addiction of Unions to a Labor that has effectively betrayed them.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 8:24am:

Lobo wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:10am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. WRONG!! It's clowns like you..... Why is Andrews so intent on having VOLUNTEERS join a Union?

I don't believe he is, but perhaps you can enlighten me with a direct quote, or two.....

Lobo wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 1:55pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:24am: Lobo wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:10am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:29am: stunspore wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:36am: I don't know the details either. But what's certain is that people are turning this into a political game over people's livelihoods. The only ones doing that are the Fire Fighter's Union and Labor. The CFA was going just fine until now. WRONG!! It's clowns like you..... Why is Andrews so intent on having VOLUNTEERS join a Union? I don't believe he is, but perhaps you can enlighten me with a direct quote, or two.....

check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   >:( >:(

teddybear wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 5:00pm:

check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry

I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ... in fact it says the opposite

"Volunteers will not be affected by this agreement," he said.

"There are specific clauses in the agreement that protect the vital role of our volunteers. That will not change.

have you got anything else to support the claim that they are forcing volunteers to join a union?

John Smith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

teddybear wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:00pm: check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ...

Correct.

It says nothing about volunteers being asked to join a union either.

Once again, the rightards are lying.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:21pm: teddybear wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:00pm: check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ... Correct. It says nothing about volunteers being asked to join a union either. Once again, the rightards are lying.

so why does the UNION wish to take over the volunteers???...

this system has been going since time began.. so why all of a sudden has this reared up ??


if there is nothing in it for the Unions why would they bother..

I have always been led to believe that any one who does not join the union should not be allowed to benefit from the rewards the union works for..

so whats the point of this????...

I am asking greg because I would like to know???....

not because of what Andrews has done....even though it appears heavy handed...

we are talking about the great unpaid aussie heros arent we?.... the volunteers..

John Smith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

teddybear wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:00pm: check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ... in fact it says the opposite "Volunteers will not be affected by this agreement," he said. "There are specific clauses in the agreement that protect the vital role of our volunteers. That will not change. have you got anything else to support the claim that they are forcing volunteers to join a union?

Why do the lib supporters insist on lying over facts?  it's indefensible.  I can understand people can have and support different opinions but to consistently lie is something i just don't get.

So in what way do you object the UFU "take control" over CFA?  What element of "control" do you oppose? the fact that they want to have a dispute officer? what exactly?  Because it isn't a "take control" in the conventional sense of "take over company" i believe.

cods wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:02pm:

I have always been led to believe that any one who does not join the union should not be allowed to benefit from the rewards the union works for..

Unfortunately, a worker doesn't have to be a Union member in order to be covered by a Union-negotiated Agreement.

stunspore wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:21pm: teddybear wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:00pm: check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ... in fact it says the opposite "Volunteers will not be affected by this agreement," he said. "There are specific clauses in the agreement that protect the vital role of our volunteers. That will not change. have you got anything else to support the claim that they are forcing volunteers to join a union? Why do the lib supporters insist on lying over facts?  it's indefensible.  I can understand people can have and support different opinions but to consistently lie is something i just don't get.

fair enough but I have asked greg so I will ask you..

since when does a UNION fight for those who are not members??...



to me its the outcome eventually???...

unless you can tell me why it wont happen.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:10pm:

cods wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 6:02pm: I have always been led to believe that any one who does not join the union should not be allowed to benefit from the rewards the union works for.. Unfortunately, a worker doesn't have to be a Union member in order to be covered by a Union-negotiated Agreement.

what do you mean UNFORTUNATELY?...

and thats not answering my question .. you are suggesting  they will not be forced to join the union..

I am asking how do you know that???...

and when did a union work for nothing.

cods wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:11pm:

stunspore wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 6:05pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:21pm: teddybear wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:00pm: check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ... in fact it says the opposite "Volunteers will not be affected by this agreement," he said. "There are specific clauses in the agreement that protect the vital role of our volunteers. That will not change. have you got anything else to support the claim that they are forcing volunteers to join a union? Why do the lib supporters insist on lying over facts?  it's indefensible.  I can understand people can have and support different opinions but to consistently lie is something i just don't get. fair enough but I have asked greg so I will ask you.. since when does a UNION fight for those who are not members??...

They do it all the time.

Every worker benefits from the work of Unions.

As I said in my post above: you don't have to be a Union member to be covered by a Union Agreement.

cods wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:13pm:

.. you are suggesting  they will not be forced to join the union.. I am asking how do you know that???...

It's illegal to force someone to join a Union.

Moreover, the OP says nothing about that happening.


cods wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:13pm:

and when did a union work for nothing.

Unions receive their income from their members.

This Union has members, thus it derives an income.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:10pm:

cods wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 6:02pm: I have always been led to believe that any one who does not join the union should not be allowed to benefit from the rewards the union works for.. Unfortunately, a worker doesn't have to be a Union member in order to be covered by a Union-negotiated Agreement.

Indeed it works both ways.  Non-union workers don't have to pay dues or strike (and lose pay) and yet gain the benefits of improved EBA after union negotiations.

Rather than some stupid opinions/rants that the union opposers/lib supporters/ignorants are just posting, how about you post either: facts; or questions you have about this whole CFA and let people who bothered to read up, enlighten them?

stunspore wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 6:10pm: cods wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 6:02pm: I have always been led to believe that any one who does not join the union should not be allowed to benefit from the rewards the union works for.. Unfortunately, a worker doesn't have to be a Union member in order to be covered by a Union-negotiated Agreement. Indeed it works both ways.  Non-union workers don't have to pay dues or strike (and lose pay) and yet gain the benefits of improved EBA after union negotiations.

Yep.

They can bitch and moan all they want about Unions, and never pay a cent in Union fees their entire life, and yet they still get all the pay rises and benefits contained in an EBA.

Plus, they still get all the benefits won by Unions in the past: paid sick leave, meal & rest breaks, etc. etc.

stunspore wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 6:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:21pm: teddybear wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:00pm: check  your fknn ABC Volunteers leaving  CFA  You c$^#t  ANDREWS   Angry Angry I read that article .. it says nothing about volunteers being made to join a union ... in fact it says the opposite "Volunteers will not be affected by this agreement," he said. "There are specific clauses in the agreement that protect the vital role of our volunteers. That will not change. have you got anything else to support the claim that they are forcing volunteers to join a union? Why do the lib supporters insist on lying over facts?  it's indefensible.  I can understand people can have and support different opinions but to consistently lie is something i just don't get.

because honesty will see them laughed at ....

HI ALL

As i understand it The CFA cannot turn out to any fire? Until seven paid firefighters attend. Anywhere in the state,  best way to solve the problem all firefighters are paid professionals no volunteers at all.

8-)

This Andrews Government gone Cuckoo :D :D

Hoss wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 3:05pm:

HI ALL As i understand it The CFA cannot turn out to any fire? Until seven paid firefighters attend. Anywhere in the state,  best way to solve the problem all firefighters are paid professionals no volunteers at all. 8-) This Andrews Government gone Cuckoo :D :D

Not correct. From the CFA-

'Claim: The UFU clause does not mean 7 paid firefighters will need to be on-scene before volunteers can start firefighting.

Fact: While volunteers will be able to begin firefighting immediately, paid firefighters will not be able to join them in fighting the fire until there are 7 staff present at the incident'

https://cfaonline.cfa.vic.gov.au/mycfa/Show?pageId=publicDisplayDoc&docId=026285

Volunteers firefighters are not staff.

My Nephew is a Firefighter in the Victorian CFA.   When the whole story comes out, there are are few righties on here that are gunna have a lot of egg on their collective faces.   Best not to comment unless the full story is out - so far it isn't.

Is Hoss clear about his misconception?  Or is he going to remain ignorant?

Please, oh please, can the lib supporters/union haters please read the facts before posting opinions which are based on lies?

stunspore wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Please, oh please, can the lib supporters/union haters please read the facts before posting opinions which are based on lies?

Is it a lie that CFA legal opinion, taken from the Vic Governments Solicitor, that the EBA approved by WorkChoices, is illegal?

lee wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 3:17pm:

Hoss wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 3:05pm: HI ALL As i understand it The CFA cannot turn out to any fire? Until seven paid firefighters attend. Anywhere in the state,  best way to solve the problem all firefighters are paid professionals no volunteers at all. 8-) This Andrews Government gone Cuckoo :D :D Not correct. From the CFA- 'Claim: The UFU clause does not mean 7 paid firefighters will need to be on-scene before volunteers can start firefighting. Fact: While volunteers will be able to begin firefighting immediately, paid firefighters will not be able to join them in fighting the fire until there are 7 staff present at the incident' https://cfaonline.cfa.vic.gov.au/mycfa/Show?pageId=publicDisplayDoc&docId=026285 Volunteers firefighters are not staff.

sheeees I hope its not my house that will be buring in that case...

they will be all going through the rosters to see whos on penalty rates.. ::) ::) ::)

lee wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 4:33pm:

stunspore wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 3:40pm: Please, oh please, can the lib supporters/union haters please read the facts before posting opinions which are based on lies? Is it a lie that CFA legal opinion, taken from the Vic Governments Solicitor, that the EBA approved by WorkChoices, is illegal?

is it a lie.. Andrews sacked the CFA.

The CFA's leadership team earlier said it had received advice from the Government's senior crown counsel that reaffirmed parts of the agreement were unlawful.

It was concerned about a clause in the proposed EBA requiring them to have at least seven paid firefighters on the scene of eve[quote][/quote]ry incident, and a push to prevent volunteers issuing orders.


why is this a sackable offence..?..

volunteers have been fighting fires since whitey got here suddenly they are not good enough to give an order??.....

whos pulling rank now?

cods wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 5:11pm:

lee wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 3:17pm: Hoss wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 3:05pm: HI ALL As i understand it The CFA cannot turn out to any fire? Until seven paid firefighters attend. Anywhere in the state,  best way to solve the problem all firefighters are paid professionals no volunteers at all. 8-) This Andrews Government gone Cuckoo :D :D Not correct. From the CFA- 'Claim: The UFU clause does not mean 7 paid firefighters will need to be on-scene before volunteers can start firefighting. Fact: While volunteers will be able to begin firefighting immediately, paid firefighters will not be able to join them in fighting the fire until there are 7 staff present at the incident' https://cfaonline.cfa.vic.gov.au/mycfa/Show?pageId=publicDisplayDoc&docId=026285 Volunteers firefighters are not staff. sheeees I hope its not my house that will be buring in that case... they will be all going through the rosters to see whos on penalty rates.. ::) ::) ::)

seeing as you live in Canberra and this is about Victoria, that probably won't happen   ::)

cods wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 5:16pm:

lee wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 4:33pm: stunspore wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 3:40pm: Please, oh please, can the lib supporters/union haters please read the facts before posting opinions which are based on lies? Is it a lie that CFA legal opinion, taken from the Vic Governments Solicitor, that the EBA approved by WorkChoices, is illegal? is it a lie.. Andrews sacked the CFA. The CFA's leadership team earlier said it had received advice from the Government's senior crown counsel that reaffirmed parts of the agreement were unlawful. It was concerned about a clause in the proposed EBA requiring them to have at least seven paid firefighters on the scene of eve Quote:ry incident, and a push to prevent volunteers issuing orders. why is this a sackable offence..?.. volunteers have been fighting fires since whitey got here suddenly they are not good enough to give an order??..... whos pulling rank now?

No, Andrews did not sack the CFA!    How could he do that?  He sacked the CFA BOARD!.  I thought fire doors were thick - but some posters on here are beyond it.  Wait till the FULL story comes out - least you all end up with yet more egg on your faces

Vic wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 5:25pm:

Wait till the FULL story comes out - least you all end up with yet more egg on your faces

What chance of the FULL story coming out?