At the Farmer's Market at Hornsby today a psychopath went crazy with a knife at the Shopping Centre. *** Correction it was a Female Officer and a Male Officer who were first on scene and footage on Channel 9 News showed the incident when the shooting occurred.

The man ran at a Police Woman and the Officer fired at point blank range about four metres from her, she fired twice and totally missed the knife weilder but she did manage to shoot three shoppers in the background.

As a former Police Officer and in the Air Force a Weapons Training Instructor in the Airfield Defence mustering, I found it unbelievable that the Officer- number one did not take into account the extreme risk in firing in a crowded area and secondly that when she did fire that she missed from point blank range.

I am aware that Police usually only have to go to the firing range once a year to retain accreditation in using as firearm.

Thus demonstrates how pathetic the ongoing firearms training is in the Police Force.

It is my opinion that officers should attend continuation training at least once every three months. Once  a year doesn't cut it.

Today's terrible outcome demonstrates how inadequate the process is.

it certainly wasn't a good day for those cops. .... bloody stupid to be shooting with innocent people standing behind him, even if they could shoot and actually managed to hit him, it's to easy for the bullets to go straight through at that range. Where were their tasers and pepper sprays?

Cue the Benny Hill music.........

I just wish they would get some new training videos.
The Keystone Cop videos are getting old.

Yeas, Mr Baron.   How she missed is amazing.   They  have my sympathy but.....really?

  It seems strange that the police officers decided to use firearms instead of tasers.   Possibly the situation got out of hand quickly and she instinctively reached for her firearm as the offender moved very rapidly towards her, not thinking about the backstop for her rounds.  However I won't try to second guess her actions.

She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:41pm:

She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on.

I'll bet she did.  A 9mm does not penetrate much, and certainly does not travel on in any lethal way the sort of distance as happened in this case.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:41pm:

She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace.

First up ... nice assumption.

Secondly, get bent.

red baron wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:15pm:

At the Farmer's Market at Hornsby today a psychopath went crazy with a knife at the Shopping Centre. Two Police Women were first on the scene and footage on Channel 9 News showed the incident when the shooting occurred. The man ran at one of the Police Women and the Officer fired at point blank range about four metres from her, she fired twice and totally missed the knife weilder but she did manage to shoot three shoppers in the background. As a former Police Officer and in the Air Force a Weapons Training Instructor in the Airfield Defence mustering, I found it unbelievable that the Officer- number one did not take into account the extreme risk in firing in a crowded area and secondly that when she did fire that she missed from point blank range. I am aware that Police usually only have to go to the firing range once a year to retain accreditation in using as firearm. Thus demonstrates how pathetic the ongoing firearms training is in the Police Force. It is my opinion that officers should attend continuation training at least once every three months. Once  a year doesn't cut it. Today's terrible outcome demonstrates how inadequate the process is.

I think they should go once a month

she missed(twice) at what's considered point blank range

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:44pm:

ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. I'll bet she did.  A 9mm does not penetrate much, and certainly does not travel on in any lethal way the sort of distance as happened in this case.

Irrelevant, coppers are trained to shoot at centre mass, at that sort of distance shooting someone in the legs only means one thing, they didnt aim at centre mass. She lost her nerve and put everyones life at risk.

It appears to have been an attempted islamic terrorist attack.


Quote:

FOUR people have been injured in a shooting outside a shopping centre in Sydney’s northwest after police opened fire on a 23-year-old man carrying a knife. ... Seven News journalist Robert Ovadia said the knifeman shouted “Allahu Akhbar” before police shot him, and that he had a history of mental health issues.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/police-shoot-and-kill-knifeman-at-westfield-hornsby/news-story/09e98074a9f0534020686a76ebee783c

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:17pm:

it certainly wasn't a good day for those cops. .... bloody stupid to be shooting with innocent people standing behind him, even if they could shoot and actually managed to hit him, it's to easy for the bullets to go straight through at that range. Where were their tasers and pepper sprays?

In a life or death situation (as it is if someone is lunging towards you with a knife) a gun is more appropriate to protect yourself, regardless of what is behind the target.

A taser is a one shot weapon and useless against a moving target as was the case here. 

The police done a good job in stopping the threat.

mothra wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:46pm:

ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace. First up ... nice assumption. Secondly, get bent.

Stay out of things you dont understand. Go and do your ironing or something.

Webtoad wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:53pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:17pm: it certainly wasn't a good day for those cops. .... bloody stupid to be shooting with innocent people standing behind him, even if they could shoot and actually managed to hit him, it's to easy for the bullets to go straight through at that range. Where were their tasers and pepper sprays? In a life or death situation (as it is if someone is lunging towards you with a knife) a gun is more appropriate to protect yourself, regardless of what is behind the target. A taser is a one shot weapon and useless against a moving target as was the case here.

Pretty much on the money


Quote:

The police done a good job in stopping the threat.

Not at all, they did a lousy job. 3 bystanders injured due to negligence, lucky no one was killed. This officer will be charged i suspect.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:53pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:46pm: ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace. First up ... nice assumption. Secondly, get bent. Stay out of things you dont understand. Go and do your ironing or something.

Get bent. Again.

You are making assumptions and going poo about women. Im perfectly well equipped to deal with you.

Never really known a woman, ha e you Ian ? Not like a friend.

https://twitter.com/campricenews/status/740744980323401728 isn't a normal response... it will be very interesting over the next few days as everyone tries not to blame islam for the attack.

She missed with nine mil. What chance of a hit with a taser? Although she may have then fired at the centre of the seen mass.

Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why.

Webtoad wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:50pm:

It appears to have been an attempted islamic terrorist attack.

No, it doesn't actually.

No amount of wishful thinking from you can change the facts.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:04pm:

Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why.

If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun.

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun.

slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg

red baron wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:15pm:

At the Farmer's Market at Hornsby today a psychopath went crazy with a knife at the Shopping Centre. Two Police Women were first on the scene and footage on Channel 9 News showed the incident when the shooting occurred.

"Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident."

This is a link, red

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:23pm:

red baron wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:15pm: At the Farmer's Market at Hornsby today a psychopath went crazy with a knife at the Shopping Centre. Two Police Women were first on the scene and footage on Channel 9 News showed the incident when the shooting occurred. "Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." This is a link, red

sshhhh ... don't tell Ian, he'll be shattered to know a guy missed too!

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg

Okay.  Another reason they should not have a gun.  It's not as though they are not prepared/trained for this sort of event, and that training is self evidently pathetic and superficial. 

What happened to flight?

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:23pm: red baron wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:15pm: At the Farmer's Market at Hornsby today a psychopath went crazy with a knife at the Shopping Centre. Two Police Women were first on the scene and footage on Channel 9 News showed the incident when the shooting occurred. "Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." This is a link, red sshhhh ... don't tell Ian, he'll be shattered to know a guy missed too!

Indeed, he will.

Seems he spoke too soon.

How come Dirty Harry never misses?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqgGihIfq5U

Bobby. wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

How come Dirty Harry never misses? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqgGihIfq5U

They keep re-doing the scene until he hits, Bobby.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:41pm:

She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace.

"Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." Link

Thoughts, ian?

Where are the heroes these days.
A couple of whacks in the head with a hefty cafe chair would have done the trick.

"We should have shotguns for this kind of deal."




http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/0/0a/Pulp-star1.jpg/600px-Pulp-star1.jpg

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:36pm:

ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace. "Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." Link Thoughts, ian?

The perp copped one shot in the abdomen apparently, that would have been the shot from the male officer. Probably only fired one shot expecting the female officer who the perp was lunging at would do her job. More than likely a younger officer who still beleives all that equal stuff from the academy, he wont make that mistake again, females are not be relied on in these circumstances.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:49pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:36pm: ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace. "Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." Link Thoughts, ian? The perp copped one shot in the abdomen apparently, that would have been the shot from the male officer.

Based on what, exactly?

You didn't even know a male was involved ten minutes ago.

You seem to be making it up as you go, ian.

The perp was obviously mentally ill. He had a rather large carving knife heading for a group of civvies. The cops popped off 2 shots at him and hit a bystander. He then came back towards the cops and they shot him in the stomach. It was an absolute circus. A better result should have been accomplished . The cops obviously s hit their pants.

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

The perp was obviously mentally ill. He had a rather large carving knife heading for a group of civvies. The cops popped off 2 shots at him and hit a bystander. He then came back towards the cops and they shot him in the stomach. It was an absolute circus. A better result should have been accomplished . The cops obviously s hit their pants.

What happened with the 4th shot?

Belay that.

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

The perp was obviously mentally ill.

You don't miss a thing.

Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him."

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:58pm: The perp was obviously mentally ill. He had a rather large carving knife heading for a group of civvies. The cops popped off 2 shots at him and hit a bystander. He then came back towards the cops and they shot him in the stomach. It was an absolute circus. A better result should have been accomplished . The cops obviously s hit their pants. What happened with the 4th shot?

I didn't hear a forth shot from the footage. When he came back towards the cops the shots became hard to pick up.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:58pm: The perp was obviously mentally ill. You don't miss a thing. Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him."

Mentally ill and being Islamic aren't mutually exclusive, evidence suggests there is a high correlation.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:58pm: The perp was obviously mentally ill. You don't miss a thing. Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him."

He was walking around with no shoes on in a shopping mall. It's sad to see a person like that.

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:06pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:03pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:58pm: The perp was obviously mentally ill. You don't miss a thing. Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him." He was walking around with no shoes on in a shopping mall. It's sad to see a person like that.

Could have been just after prayer time. Were they washed?

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:06pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:03pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:58pm: The perp was obviously mentally ill. You don't miss a thing. Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him." He was walking around with no shoes on in a shopping mall. It's sad to see a person like that.

Indeed, it is.

This is Australia's mental health program at work.

Aussie, wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:07pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:06pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:03pm: Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:58pm: The perp was obviously mentally ill. You don't miss a thing. Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him." He was walking around with no shoes on in a shopping mall. It's sad to see a person like that. Could have been just after prayer time. Were they washed?

No. He was out there tripping through the milky way. I've known enough nutty people to work that poor bugger out.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:[i]"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him."

Missing for 2 weeks but only reported yesterday.  Someone was remiss.

Black Orchid wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:03pm: Assistant Commissioner Clifford said:[i]"I understand he was reported missing from a psychiatric centre near here yesterday and police were making efforts to try and locate him." Missing for 2 weeks but only reported yesterday.  Someone was remiss.

Yeas.  The Hospital lost one.....and that he was missing was only reported to the Cops yesterday.....presumably by the Hospital.

red baron wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:15pm:

The man ran at one of the Police Women and the Officer fired at point blank range about four metres from her, she fired twice and totally missed the knife weilder but she did manage to shoot three shoppers in the background.

http://badbooksgoodtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/fight-club-jacks-complete-lack-of-surprise.gif

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:51pm:

ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:36pm: ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace. "Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." Link Thoughts, ian? The perp copped one shot in the abdomen apparently, that would have been the shot from the male officer. Based on what, exactly? You didn't even know a male was involved ten minutes ago. You seem to be making it up as you go, ian.

read the initial report. She will be charged, he wont.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:31pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:51pm: ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:49pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:36pm: ian wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:41pm: She didnt miss, its clear that she didnt fire at centre mass as trained to do. Lost her nerve and shot him in the legs and hit bystanders. This is why females should not be in these sorts of roles, they can not be relied on. This could have been really ugly if someone elses life depended on her doing her job properly. She needs to resign or get a loss of confidence letter. Disgrace. "Assistant Commissioner Clifford said he understood two officers, a male and a female, fired their weapons during the incident." Link Thoughts, ian? The perp copped one shot in the abdomen apparently, that would have been the shot from the male officer. Based on what, exactly? You didn't even know a male was involved ten minutes ago. You seem to be making it up as you go, ian. read the initial report.

Sure.

Link?

Quote:

read the initial report. She will be charged, he wont.

What with?

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

Quote: read the initial report. She will be charged, he wont. What with?

Slow down, Aussie.

He's still working on his story.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:34pm: Quote: read the initial report. She will be charged, he wont. What with? Slow down, Aussie. He's still working on his story.

http://content.presentermedia.com/files/animsp/00003000/3222/business_race__PA_md_wm.gif

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg

Ever gone pig shooting on foot in scrub? No not the blue ones! ::)

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg Ever gone pig shooting on foot in scrub? No not the blue ones! ::)

No....but I've seen pigs move much much faster that this turtle paced victim.  And they are a tad smaller than your average human being and much lower to the ground.

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg Ever gone pig shooting on foot in scrub? No not the blue ones! ::) No....but I've seen pigs move much much faster that this turtle paced victim.

Yes, what I'm saying is there is not much excuse for missing no matter their adrenaline pumping. In fact it should have helped them focus.

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:04pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:03pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg Ever gone pig shooting on foot in scrub? No not the blue ones! ::) No....but I've seen pigs move much much faster that this turtle paced victim. Yes, what I'm saying is there is not much excuse for missing no matter their adrenaline pumping. In fact it should have helped them focus.

Oh!

When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up.

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

Quote: read the initial report. She will be charged, he wont. What with?

In due course we will find out, there is undoubtedly negligence here.

ian wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 8:34pm: Quote: read the initial report. She will be charged, he wont. What with? In due course we will find out, there is undoubtedly negligence here.

Just negligence?

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:28pm:

When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up.

I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. Fight or flight.

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg Ever gone pig shooting on foot in scrub? No not the blue ones! ::)

nah ... never gone hunting.

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:41pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms.

That is my response too.  Time slows down, and makes it much easier to respond.  (Not that I've ever been confronted with a zombie going at turtle pace maybe armed with a knife when I shot at him.)

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg

Typo, Leb?

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.

Do tell, what situation were you in where your 'response' was the same?

GordyL wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg Typo, Leb?

;D ;D ;D
OK .....  I'll give you that one

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Time slows down, and makes it much easier to respond.  (Not that I've ever been confronted with a zombie going at turtle pace maybe armed with a knife when I shot at him.)

Time slows down? Neat little manipulation of space time. Perhaps you ate so much vindaloo your arse exploded with such force you traveled fast enough to actually time travel.   Yuk.

GordyL wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:45pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Time slows down, and makes it much easier to respond.  (Not that I've ever been confronted with a zombie going at turtle pace maybe armed with a knife when I shot at him.) Time slows down? Neat little manipulation of space time. Perhaps you ate so much vindaloo your arse exploded with such force you traveled fast enough to actually time travel.   Yuk.

;D ;D ;D Keep this up and you will owe me a new keyboard.

GordyL wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:22pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. slow moving? they'd have that much adrenaline pumping they'd be lucky to hit a barn door, let alone a leg Typo, Leb?

Incorrigible and recalcitrant.  ;D

HI ALL

HI ALL

Handguns are high training with a lot of practice most police do not get that.

8-)

GordyL wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:51pm:

Time slows down? Neat little manipulation of space time. Perhaps you ate so much vindaloo your arse exploded with such force you traveled fast enough to actually time travel.   Yuk.

;D

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:17pm:

it certainly wasn't a good day for those cops. .... bloody stupid to be shooting with innocent people standing behind him, even if they could shoot and actually managed to hit him, it's to easy for the bullets to go straight through at that range. Where were their tasers and pepper sprays?

Bullets would not go through someone and hit anyone behind them at high velocity. You need a high powered handgun to do any real damage, and the police aren't armed with that kind of weaponry for their duties.

I agree, the taser should have been used. But it sounds like the police reacted suddenly, and did not have time to take aim properly.

So many armchair experts..... and almost every one without a clue.  ::)

GordyL wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:45pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Time slows down, and makes it much easier to respond.  (Not that I've ever been confronted with a zombie going at turtle pace maybe armed with a knife when I shot at him.) Time slows down? Neat little manipulation of space time. Perhaps you ate so much vindaloo your arse exploded with such force you traveled fast enough to actually time travel.   Yuk.

Pedant, should I have said time seems to slow down. Anyway
Quote:

http://www.livescience.com/2117-time-slow-emergencies.html

I don't think I'm the only one.

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:38pm:

I don't think I'm the only one.

more fans of 'the matrix'  :D :D

John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:39pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:38pm: I don't think I'm the only one. more fans of 'the matrix'  :D :D

;D

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:39pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:38pm: I don't think I'm the only one. more fans of 'the matrix'  :D :D ;D

i clicked on your link until AFTER I made that comment :D :D

Aussie, wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 9:48pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:45pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Do tell, what situation were you in where your 'response' was the same?

Bump for Aussie.

Did you see the poo emerging slowly onto your cab seat and reached for the Chux super wipe yelling "nooooooooo"

Aussie, wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:57pm:

Aussie, wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:48pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:45pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Do tell, what situation were you in where your 'response' was the same? Bump for Aussie. Did you see the poo emerging slowly onto your cab seat and reached for the Chux super wipe yelling "nooooooooo"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

Setanta wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:59pm:

Aussie, wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:57pm: Aussie, wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:48pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:45pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Do tell, what situation were you in where your 'response' was the same? Bump for Aussie. Did you see the poo emerging slowly onto your cab seat and reached for the Chux super wipe yelling "nooooooooo" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

;D ;D ;D

Aussie, wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 11:04pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:59pm: Aussie, wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:57pm: Aussie, wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:48pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:45pm: Setanta wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:41pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 9:28pm: When I am spearing and some big fish turn up, the hardest thing to do is avoid the adrenaline rush, or at least delay it until after I have taken the shot. Once it kicks in it is very hard to shoot straight. Target practice can't fix that. I think they need something like a tennis ball machine, except it lobs basketballs at your head, so you need to get three shots into it first to soften it up. I tend to get tunnel vision on the threat when adrenaline kicks in. Time can slow, only one focus. I suppose that people can also panic and lose it but then they shouldn't be carrying firearms. That is my response too.  Do tell, what situation were you in where your 'response' was the same? Bump for Aussie. Did you see the poo emerging slowly onto your cab seat and reached for the Chux super wipe yelling "nooooooooo" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4 ;D ;D ;D

If his missus was a nurse there'd be no probs. I have two in the house and they are trained to nonchalantly clean shyte up, dunno how they do it withought a thought. I bet if the passenger was a nurse she would have cleaned her own shyte up.

Is the policewoman being charged with GBH?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:18am:

Is the policewoman being charged with GBH?

Why the policewoman and not the policeman, Booby?

Webtoad wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:53pm:

In a life or death situation (as it is if someone is lunging towards you with a knife) a gun is more appropriate to protect yourself, regardless of what is behind the target. A taser is a one shot weapon and useless against a moving target as was the case here.  The police did a good job in stopping the threat.

Of course they did.

And that is why they are being supported by their superiors.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:20am:

Webtoad wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 6:53pm: In a life or death situation (as it is if someone is lunging towards you with a knife) a gun is more appropriate to protect yourself, regardless of what is behind the target. A taser is a one shot weapon and useless against a moving target as was the case here.  The police did a good job in stopping the threat. Of course they did.

Three elderly ladies in hospital.

Good job?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:18am:

Is the policewoman being charged with GBH?

Doubt it.  Pussy pass + blue privilege = no charge.  Hell she'll probably get promoted for this - into a nice desk job where she can't hurt anybody.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? Doubt it.  Pussy pass + blue privilege = no charge.  Hell she'll probably get promoted for this - into a nice desk job where she can't hurt anybody.

And the policeman?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:45am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:37am: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? Doubt it.  Pussy pass + blue privilege = no charge.  Hell she'll probably get promoted for this - into a nice desk job where she can't hurt anybody. And the policeman?

Reprimanded, for not handling the situation before his partner could bugger it up.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:45am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:37am: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? Doubt it.  Pussy pass + blue privilege = no charge.  Hell she'll probably get promoted for this - into a nice desk job where she can't hurt anybody. And the policeman? Reprimanded, for not handling the situation before his partner could bugger it up.

So, they've confirmed that it's her who buggered it up?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:48am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:47am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:45am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:37am: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? Doubt it.  Pussy pass + blue privilege = no charge.  Hell she'll probably get promoted for this - into a nice desk job where she can't hurt anybody. And the policeman? Reprimanded, for not handling the situation before his partner could bugger it up. So, they've confirmed that it's her who buggered it up?

Yeah, you can even watch it on video.  She closed her eyes and shied away as she opened fire, and missed him from a coupla meters away.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/hornsby-westfield-shooting-the-moment-innocent-bystander-is-shot/news-story/8e69c204f244ec98c0b042e5ed431550


She knows she buggered up:


Quote:

In the footage, blood can be seen coming out the woman’s leg as the female officer rushes over. “Oh sh*t, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry,” she can be heard saying.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:48am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:47am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:45am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:37am: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? Doubt it.  Pussy pass + blue privilege = no charge.  Hell she'll probably get promoted for this - into a nice desk job where she can't hurt anybody. And the policeman? Reprimanded, for not handling the situation before his partner could bugger it up. So, they've confirmed that it's her who buggered it up?

Seems like it. It's a broader issue of crap police training. A mate of mine was a NSW Police weapons trainer and he always said the average GD cop is clueless and gets about 10% of the training required.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:56am:

She closed her eyes and shied away as she opened fire, and missed him from a coupla meters away.

I must be watching a different video.

At no point can I see her eyes, let alone distinguish if they are open or not.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:56am:

She closed her eyes and shied away as she opened fire, and missed him from a coupla meters away.

She appears to have been wearing sunglasses the whole time.

Not sure how you've determined that her eyes were closed.

Picture of Police Woman

Certainly a botched effort by all involved, though.

Amazing how calm most of the shoppers seemed to be.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:27am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:56am: She closed her eyes and shied away as she opened fire, and missed him from a coupla meters away. I must be watching a different video. At no point can I see her eyes, let alone distinguish if they are open or not.

But you can clearly see her shy away, in the reflexive movement which includes tightly closing ones eyes.  It's an identifiable, involuntary response that  You'll see it in novice fighters sparring for the first time, when people get startled by something out the corner of their eyes, and apparently when muslims come running at people with knives.

It's a losing battle trying to troll this one.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:33am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:56am: She closed her eyes and shied away as she opened fire, and missed him from a coupla meters away. She appears to have been wearing sunglasses the whole time. Not sure how you've determined that her eyes were closed. Picture of Police Woman Certainly a botched effort by all involved, though. Amazing how calm most of the shoppers seemed to be.

Not calm.  Unaware.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:39am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 9:27am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:56am: She closed her eyes and shied away as she opened fire, and missed him from a coupla meters away. I must be watching a different video. At no point can I see her eyes, let alone distinguish if they are open or not. But you can clearly see her shy away, in the reflexive movement which includes tightly closing ones eyes.  It's an identifiable, involuntary response that  You'll see it in novice fighters sparring for the first time, when people get startled by something out the corner of their eyes, and apparently when muslims come running at people with knives. It's a losing battle trying to troll this one.

I'm not trolling it.

I'm just trying to get the facts.

So far:

- no claim of terrorism from the police or the media

- no footage or pictures of the woman closing her eyes

- no confirmation that she's responsible for all of the injuries

- police appear to have over-reacted.

I've given you the facts.

You're welcome.

It'd be comical if it wasn't so stupid

That idiot cop la femm apologizing to innocent bystanders bloodied on the ground after she indiscriminately fired bullets all over the place in a crowded market. Any chance Mam that you could have called an Ambulance instead of apologizing ?

Take the gun away from her and never let her have one again

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:01am:

I've given you the facts.

No, you made an assumption.

There is no evidence to show that the woman closed her eyes.

Not a single piece.

In fact, her eyes are covered with dark glasses.

Bias_2012 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:35am:

It'd be comical if it wasn't so stupid That idiot cop la femm apologizing to innocent bystanders bloodied on the ground after she indiscriminately fired bullets all over the place in a crowded market. Any chance Mam that you could have called an Ambulance instead of apologizing ? Take the gun away from her and never let her have one again

Has it been established that the policewoman caused all of the injuries?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:01am: I've given you the facts. No, you made an assumption. There is no evidence to show that the woman closed her eyes. Not a single piece. In fact, her eyes are covered with dark glasses.

Fact.  It's called the "flinch reflex" and it's not unusual, or difficult to identify. 

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:46am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:38am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:01am: I've given you the facts. No, you made an assumption. There is no evidence to show that the woman closed her eyes. Not a single piece. In fact, her eyes are covered with dark glasses. Fact.  It's called the "flinch reflex" and it's not unusual, or difficult to identify.

Impossible to identify in the video.

Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:48am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:46am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:38am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:01am: I've given you the facts. No, you made an assumption. There is no evidence to show that the woman closed her eyes. Not a single piece. In fact, her eyes are covered with dark glasses. Fact.  It's called the "flinch reflex" and it's not unusual, or difficult to identify.  Impossible to identify in the video. Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

Impossible if you dont know what youre looking for, easy if you do.

Trust me, I know what Im doing.

http://www.wpgallery.com/download/images/sledge_hammer_v1.jpg

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:52am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:48am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:46am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:38am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:01am: I've given you the facts. No, you made an assumption. There is no evidence to show that the woman closed her eyes. Not a single piece. In fact, her eyes are covered with dark glasses. Fact.  It's called the "flinch reflex" and it's not unusual, or difficult to identify.  Impossible to identify in the video. Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet? Impossible if you dont know what youre looking for, easy if you do.

I'm looking for her eyes.

And, as I've already established: her eyes are never seen.

Although, blinking IS technically closing one's eyes so your assumption is most likely correct.

Her sphincter probably tightened too, but the video doesn't show that either.

Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

You dont need to see her eyes.

Just listen to the expert.  They have training and knowledge that you dont.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:03am:

You dont need to see her eyes. Just listen to the expert.  They have training and knowledge that you dont.

And x-ray vision.

Who would have thought a martial arts instructor would be such a superhero.

Anyway, I'm gonna keep asking:

Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

She established it herself by all her apologizing

Quote:

Anyway, I'm gonna keep asking: Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

Why keep asking when you know the answer?

Video shows it, her response shows it - what extra confirmation do you need? 

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:11am:

Quote: Anyway, I'm gonna keep asking: Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet? Why keep asking when you know the answer? Video shows it, her response shows it - what extra confirmation do you need?

I don't know the answer at all.

Do you?

If so, please share.

Why all this secret squirrel nonsense?

Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet?

Yes you do.

She buggered up and shot 2 people - neither of them the knife wielding nutter.

Its all there on freely available video, which you claim to  have watched.  Are you one of those guys who goes to the movies and asks "whats happening"  every few minutes?

Bias_2012 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:05am: Have they established that the woman caused all of the injuries yet? She established it herself by all her apologizing

No.

Three people were shot.

Has it been established that the policewoman shot all three women?

I've seen no reports confirming that she is responsible for all injuries.

If you have, all I'm asking for is a link.

I'm not doubting you, I just can't find the link that establishes that fact.

Why is it so hard to get a little help in this forum? Seriously   :-/

So who thinks men and women have different situational awareness and stress responses?
If different is it nature or nurture?

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:23am:

Its all there on freely available video

No, it's not.

Nowhere in that video does it show her injuring three women.

I've watched the video at least a half a dozen times.

If you believe I'm wrong, just tell me at what point in the video she hits each woman, and where they are located on the screen.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:27am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:23am: Its all there on freely available video No, it's not. Nowhere in that video does it show her injuring three women. I've watched the video at least a half a dozen times. If you believe I'm wrong, just tell me at what point in the video she hits each woman, and where they are located on the screen.

Youre right.  That video only clearly establishes that she shot twoinnocent bystanders.  2 might be an acceptable price for equality, but 3 is too much.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:30am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:27am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:23am: Its all there on freely available video No, it's not. Nowhere in that video does it show her injuring three women. I've watched the video at least a half a dozen times. If you believe I'm wrong, just tell me at what point in the video she hits each woman, and where they are located on the screen. Youre right.  That video only clearly establishes that she shot twoinnocent bystanders.  2 might be an acceptable price for equality, but 3 is too much.

So, it has not been established that she caused all of the injuries.

We're getting somewhere, at last.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:31am:

... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:30am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:27am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:23am: Its all there on freely available video No, it's not. Nowhere in that video does it show her injuring three women. I've watched the video at least a half a dozen times. If you believe I'm wrong, just tell me at what point in the video she hits each woman, and where they are located on the screen. Youre right.  That video only clearly establishes that she shot twoinnocent bystanders.  2 might be an acceptable price for equality, but 3 is too much. So, it has not been established that she caused all of the injuries. We're getting somewhere, at last.

No of course she didnt - just the injuries to the innocent bystanders.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:34am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:31am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:30am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:27am: ... wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:23am: Its all there on freely available video No, it's not. Nowhere in that video does it show her injuring three women. I've watched the video at least a half a dozen times. If you believe I'm wrong, just tell me at what point in the video she hits each woman, and where they are located on the screen. Youre right.  That video only clearly establishes that she shot twoinnocent bystanders.  2 might be an acceptable price for equality, but 3 is too much. So, it has not been established that she caused all of the injuries. We're getting somewhere, at last. No of course she didnt - just the injuries to the innocent bystanders.

Are you suggesting that one of the women wasn't innocent?

Conspiracy theory now - really?

It was a false flag.  Shes just a plant by evil patriarchal white males, to discredit the idea of having shielas playing cops and robbers.

... wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:38am:

It was a false flag.  Shes just a plant by evil patriarchal white males, to discredit the idea of having shielas playing cops and robbers.

Gotchya!

Plant or not, she still did it.

But as we know, its never a womans fault - I blame the evil patriarchy.

Pizz poor judgement to use their firearms in a shopping centre. The injured women were caught by the shrapnel from the rounds fired by the woman police officer some of which missed the guy with the knife. The male police officer fired one round which contacted the nutter with the knife in the gut.

Fuzzball wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 1:10pm:

Pizz poor judgement to use their firearms in a shopping centre. The injured women were caught by the shrapnel from the rounds fired by the woman police officer some of which missed the guy with the knife. The male police officer fired one round which contacted the nutter with the knife in the gut.

when we have never even been close to being in a situation like this... we can sure be judgmental...

this man was well known to the police....he had threatened suicide in the past so who knows what was going through his mind...either way...this person should not have been on the streets and the police should have been warned....being warned is forearmed I reckon..I prefer not to judge this as we have no idea what this young man was capable of doing....he was I should say is pretty sick.....once upon a time really mentally sick people were locked up... mainly for their own safety....now we find its cheaper to allow them certain freedom.........thats right we have the police to protect us dont we????....

and the moment they do they are dead.. they will never get it right..........


.we all know how we would deal with a situation like this dont we?????? >:(

cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer.

Aussie wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun.

;D like using a cap gun ... smack all recoil ...

9 mm a tad different you'll find

just like previous Police issue 38 Smith & Wesson

Maybe a .22 cal would have been more effective and accurate.

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 5:58pm:

cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer.

oh I agree whole heartedly.....but you will have to admit that will take a lot longer and they are talking mental illness... I mean even those who do mental illness struggle...

yet we expect the police to suddenly deal with every and any situation...

its a big ask aussie...every situation is different..

you can only train to a certain point....and even cops feel fear.

lets not forget that no training should ever disappear that..... it is part of our survival psyche

why they didnt use the laser  is an issue.. but then who knows it could have sent him into a fit or something... we dont know but lets face it the police know more about this person than we do..and maybe what he was capable of doing..

Gnads wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 6:13pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:20pm: freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:04pm: Whenever the police shoot and kill someone, people demand to know why they didn't aim for the legs instead. This is why. If they can't hit what they are aiming at....at that range they ought have their Glocks taken off them.  I can group pretty well at my age (21) using a very aged range .22 Smith & Wesson revolver at 25 yards.  If they (aged 80) can't hit a shoulder, or a leg of a slow moving person at about at most 5 metres, they should not have a gun. ;D like using a cap gun ... smack all recoil ... 9 mm a tad different you'll find just like previous Police issue 38 Smith & Wesson Maybe a .22 cal would have been more effective and accurate.

Dunno about 'effective.'  I agree there is little recoil with a .22 but I'm not shabby either with a larger calibre.  I simply prefer the .22.  It's less noisy as well.

Anyway ... even in my workplace when a safety critical situation occurs

the first rule of thumb is before you act

you assess the situation ... a risk assessment in your head

she blew it .... big time

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 5:51pm:

when we have never even been close to being in a situation like this... we can sure be judgmental...

After being in situations exactly like that, I'd have to say you can sure be judgemental when you know absolutely nothing about me or a confrontation like that. Engage your brain before opening your mouth.

Using your firearm in a shopping centre unless people are actually being stabbed is wrong, and when a firearm is required unless there is no other alternative (Taser, Pepper Spray, police dog), marksmen would be on the scene, not your average plod who hasn't been trained for that situation.

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 6:23pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm: cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer. oh I agree whole heartedly.....but you will have to admit that will take a lot longer and they are talking mental illness... I mean even those who do mental illness struggle... yet we expect the police to suddenly deal with every and any situation... its a big ask aussie...every situation is different.. you can only train to a certain point....and even cops feel fear. lets not forget that no training should ever disappear that..... it is part of our survival psyche why they didnt use the laser

Because the miss rates with lasers is even worse than these police.  Haven't you seen a Star Wars movie?  The light saber would have done the job.

In my experience women are not so good in high stress situations.  Some are but they seem the exception .

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:18am:

Is the policewoman being charged with GBH?

No proper answer from anyone.

Is she being charged or not?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? No proper answer from anyone. Is she being charged or not?

I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening.  I doubt she'll be charged with GBH.  She will be disciplined internally.

Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail.

Fuzzball wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

cods wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:51pm: when we have never even been close to being in a situation like this... we can sure be judgmental... After being in situations exactly like that, I'd have to say you can sure be judgemental when you know absolutely nothing about me or a confrontation like that. Engage your brain before opening your mouth. Using your firearm in a shopping centre unless people are actually being stabbed is wrong, and when a firearm is required unless there is no other alternative (Taser, Pepper Spray, police dog), marksmen would be on the scene, not your average plod who hasn't been trained for that situation.

well I didnt mistake the rude part.... and I was referring to just about everyone on this thread..

when you say you have been in a life and death situation.. we only have your word for it.. it wasnt captured on video for the world to comment on was it???>..

you average plod has been trained for most situration   ones that happen almost every day.. I know I had two coppers in my family..

however this situation is not AN EVERY DAY OCCURRENCE>>>


and like I said these coppers  or plods as you call them... do have the fear like most of us...except you of course.

I fell for this copper I really do.. I do not believe anyone could be trained to deal with that situation and receive  everyones  blessing.... she will be judged and labeled  for the rest of her life...

all because some mental case... was on day release?????????????  :D :D


where did he get the knife??... oh maybe they gave him that in case he wanted to eat out.. >:( >:( >:( >:(

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:40pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? No proper answer from anyone. Is she being charged or not? I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening.  I doubt she'll be charged with GBH.  She will be disciplined internally. Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail.

there is sadly every possibility she could get stood down without pay for the duration of the inquiry

its been done before...

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:40pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? No proper answer from anyone. Is she being charged or not? I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening.  I doubt she'll be charged with GBH.  She will be disciplined internally. Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail.

She should be in jail -

it was reckless conduct endangering life & grievous bodily harm.

Any citizen who did what she did would be remanded in custody right now.


She could have shot at nearly point blank range - less than 1 meter & not missed & still would have been safe.

When I was in the Police Force and the Air Force there was only one way that you were taught to use a firearm. If you draw and fire, you fire at the centre of the seen mass. No feedback I have had since then indicates that current officers are taught any different.

You see if you have cause to draw and use your firearm then you have cause to believe that your life or someone elses' is in imminent danger.

So when you fire you are firing to kill. Make no bones about it.

The Officer in question fired point blank from four metres and missed with both shots. I can only surmise that she panicked and 'pulled' her shots, you 'have to' squeeze the trigger not ram it back or your muzzle will be dragged off the target.

She is human and it happens, luckily for her the assailant changed direction, immediately after the shots or she would have been dead meat.

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

where did he get the knife??... oh maybe they gave him that in case he wanted to eat out.. >:( >:( >:( >:(

Well he wasn't a Mohammedan then, they are forbidden to eat pork!  ;D

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 5:58pm:

cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer.

They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here.

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm: cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer. They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here.

Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 9:42pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm: cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer. They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here. Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

Either that or she wasn't mentally up to the task.

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 9:42pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm: cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer. They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here. Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

If only the curry cowboy was there to save the day.

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 9:42pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm: cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns.  That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer. They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here. Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

I think its self evident this individual failed to deploy her training.

And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:52pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:40pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? No proper answer from anyone. Is she being charged or not? I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening.  I doubt she'll be charged with GBH.  She will be disciplined internally. Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail. She should be in jail - it was reckless conduct endangering life & grievous bodily harm. Any citizen who did what she did would be remanded in custody right now. She could have shot at nearly point blank range - less than 1 meter & not missed & still would have been safe.

bull shite bobby.. she is legally allowed to carry a gun on the streets   you and I are not simple really...

and no one is allowed to carry a knife around either...

have you ever been in a life and death situation bobs... someone here reckons he has yet has no evidence..

this was all filmed ....do you seriously think that copper wanted to shoot???????>..

the mentally disabled man was well known to the police yet he was allowed out on day release... by the look of things on his own reconnaissance..

he is known for attempted suicides....so it sounds like it was a good idea...

its all pretty sad and I feel for the ladies that were injured... but for gawds sake....try blaming the people who thought is was a good idea for him to be on the streets in the first place..

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence.

they last coppers who did that to a person wielding a knife on the beach the coppers were crucified.... ::) ::)

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:10pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:03pm: And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence. they last coppers who did that to a person wielding a knife on the beach the coppers were crucified.... ::) ::)

Why? How many cops with how many arm breaking batons?

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:59pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:52pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:40pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 7:18am: Is the policewoman being charged with GBH? No proper answer from anyone. Is she being charged or not? I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening.  I doubt she'll be charged with GBH.  She will be disciplined internally. Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail. She should be in jail - it was reckless conduct endangering life & grievous bodily harm. Any citizen who did what she did would be remanded in custody right now. She could have shot at nearly point blank range - less than 1 meter & not missed & still would have been safe. bull shite bobby.. she is legally allowed to carry a gun on the streets   you and I are not simple really... and no one is allowed to carry a knife around either... have you ever been in a life and death situation bobs... someone here reckons he has yet has no evidence.. this was all filmed ....do you seriously think that copper wanted to shoot???????>.. the mentally disabled man was well known to the police yet he was allowed out on day release... by the look of things on his own reconnaissance.. he is known for attempted suicides....so it sounds like it was a good idea... its all pretty sad and I feel for the ladies that were injured... but for gawds sake....try blaming the people who thought is was a good idea for him to be on the streets in the first place..

Cods is forgiven for shooting the messenger.

namaste

red baron wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

When I was in the Police Force and the Air Force there was only one way that you were taught to use a firearm. If you draw and fire, you fire at the centre of the seen mass. No feedback I have had since then indicates that current officers are taught any different. You see if you have cause to draw and use your firearm then you have cause to believe that your life or someone elses' is in imminent danger. So when you fire you are firing to kill. Make no bones about it. The Officer in question fired point blank from four metres and missed with both shots. I can only surmise that she panicked and 'pulled' her shots, you 'have to' squeeze the trigger not ram it back or your muzzle will be dragged off the target. She is human and it happens, luckily for her the assailant changed direction, immediately after the shots or she would have been dead meat.

One of the only posts here that makes sense.  We hear at great length from the armchair experts what they would have done, but none have ever been in that situation.  Its easy to say that the officer should have hit her target from that range, and in theory she should have.  But range practice and the real world are different things.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

How come Dirty Harry never misses? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqgGihIfq5U

this is what happens when government paid positions have a "quota" put on them that 50% of the jobs have to have someone with a vagina to fill those positions ...

and then they act surprised when things stuff up...  ::)

Belgarion wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:13am:

red baron wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 8:03pm: When I was in the Police Force and the Air Force there was only one way that you were taught to use a firearm. If you draw and fire, you fire at the centre of the seen mass. No feedback I have had since then indicates that current officers are taught any different. You see if you have cause to draw and use your firearm then you have cause to believe that your life or someone elses' is in imminent danger. So when you fire you are firing to kill. Make no bones about it. The Officer in question fired point blank from four metres and missed with both shots. I can only surmise that she panicked and 'pulled' her shots, you 'have to' squeeze the trigger not ram it back or your muzzle will be dragged off the target. She is human and it happens, luckily for her the assailant changed direction, immediately after the shots or she would have been dead meat. One of the only posts here that makes sense.  We hear at great length from the armchair experts what they would have done, but none have ever been in that situation.  Its easy to say that the officer should have hit her target from that range, and in theory she should have.  But range practice and the real world are different things.

But if she's such a bad shot then why didn't she shoot him from 1 meter away? -
then she couldn't miss.

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:15am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 7:27pm: How come Dirty Harry never misses? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqgGihIfq5U this is what happens when government paid positions have a "quota" put on them that 50% of the jobs have to have someone with a vagina to fill those positions ... and then they act surprised when things stuff up...  ::)

We don't need a police force when one man like Dirty Harry
can take on all the crooks & win:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSAyz5c3JmM

Bobby. wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:16am:

But if she's such a bad shot then why didn't she shoot him from 1 meter away? - then she couldn't miss.

I was taught that if someone with a knife gets within two metres of you then they can stab you even if you have pistol drawn.  It's not about being a bad shot, but the stress of the situation at the time. In theory the officer should have aimed a the centre of mass and put the offender down, but it is not so simple.

I have never been faced with such a situation, but in training to attempt to simulate the effect stress has on you , we were made to run to the point of exhaustion then had to fire a round at a man size target from five metres. I don't know where my bullet went but it was not in the target,  yet I had scored very well on the formal range qualification.

Belgarion wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

So many armchair experts..... and almost every one without a clue.  ::)

As someone who has not had as much firearms experience as you, I can only say that I have handled a few hand guns, rifles, and an automatic weapon on rare occasions. However, I have seen how damaging they can be on targets, and can imagine how they would damage someone. And I am speaking as someone who has been shot before.

I would love to hear more details about what circumstances the police had to react, in order to not use tasers over pistols.

It's actually quite easy to miss a target from 5 metres using a hand gun. I know it is easier to hit a target when you are steady and ready. But these officers would have had little time to react to a moving target.

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:10pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:03pm: And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence. they last coppers who did that to a person wielding a knife on the beach the coppers were crucified.... ::) ::)

Yes. crucified by idiots in the media  who didnt know what they were talking about.  Im seeing a lot of armchair experts in this thread doing the same.
However, they did exactly what they were supposed to do in  the face of a life threatening attack.

red baron wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 6:15pm:

At the Farmer's Market at Hornsby today a psychopath went crazy with a knife at the Shopping Centre. *** Correction it was a Female Officer and a Male Officer who were first on scene and footage on Channel 9 News showed the incident when the shooting occurred. The man ran at a Police Woman and the Officer fired at point blank range about four metres from her, she fired twice and totally missed the knife weilder but she did manage to shoot three shoppers in the background. As a former Police Officer and in the Air Force a Weapons Training Instructor in the Airfield Defence mustering, I found it unbelievable that the Officer- number one did not take into account the extreme risk in firing in a crowded area and secondly that when she did fire that she missed from point blank range. I am aware that Police usually only have to go to the firing range once a year to retain accreditation in using as firearm. Thus demonstrates how pathetic the ongoing firearms training is in the Police Force. It is my opinion that officers should attend continuation training at least once every three months. Once  a year doesn't cut it. Today's terrible outcome demonstrates how inadequate the process is.

Reading this post Im not convinced you were ever a copper on the street. MP perhaps?

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 4:43am:

It's actually quite easy to miss a target from 5 metres using a hand gun. I know it is easier to hit a target when you are steady and ready. But these officers would have had little time to react to a moving target.

If she keeps her job - should she be allowed to carry a handgun?

ian wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 7:40am:

cods wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 11:10pm: ian wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:03pm: And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence. they last coppers who did that to a person wielding a knife on the beach the coppers were crucified.... ::) ::) Yes. crucified by idiots in the media  who didnt know what they were talking about.  Im seeing a lot of armchair experts in this thread doing the same. However, they did exactly what they were supposed to do in  the face of a life threatening attack.

she may have wanted to hit the knife out of his hand... as we have been told this person was WELL KNOWN to the police...

we are talking slit second judgement.......we of course are all talking in hindsight.. ::) ::)

cods wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 8:34am:

... she may have wanted to hit the knife out of his hand...

If so, she should be fired for negligence and idiocy.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

cods wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:34am: ... she may have wanted to hit the knife out of his hand... If so, she should be fired for negligence and idiocy.

well I wont go into whos the idiot...

I did mention he was well known to the police.....he wasnt someone she may not have had any knowledge of.. thats what I am saying...I dont think she wanted to KILL him...

Know what Ian? I don't give a continental stuff what you believe about me.

I'm happy in my own skin and if bushi..ters can't handle it, that's the raw prawn for you sunshine. ;D ;D ;D

red baron wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:06pm:

Know what Ian? I don't give a continental stuff what you believe about me. I'm happy in my own skin and if bushi..ters can't handle it, that's the raw prawn for you sunshine. ;D ;D ;D

the thing is Rb this isnt the wild west yet... and please god it never gets like that...

so far the bad guys are only shooting each other....

and thats not such a bad thing...

however to think we need to train our cops to be ready to draw their guns more and more is a worry...

I dont see how they can be writing a speeding ticket one day... and being in a shoot out the next.

That's all part and parcel of being a Cops Cods. You can be writing speeding tickets, delivering death notices, attending domestic arguments, breaking up fights, investigating motor vehice accidents, executing warrants, attending break and enters and more .....AND  drawing a gun and firing it in extreme situations. All part of being a Police Officer.

Every Officer has to know and be ready for the day whether it is a number of times or once in a career, to draw and fire their weapon. But when that moment comes you had better be ready for it or you get what we had at Hornsby.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

cods wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:34am: ... she may have wanted to hit the knife out of his hand... If so, she should be fired for negligence and idiocy.

cods has watched too many John Wayne or James Bond movies!

Sorry cods just joking!!!    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

red baron wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:18pm:

That's all part and parcel of being a Cops Cods. You can be writing speeding tickets, delivering death notices, attending domestic arguments, breaking up fights, investigating motor vehice accidents, executing warrants, attending break and enters and more .....AND  drawing a gun and firing it in extreme situations. All part of being a Police Officer. Every Officer has to know and be ready for the day whether it is a number of times or once in a career, to draw and fire their weapon. But when that moment comes you had better be ready for it or you get what we had at Hornsby.

Isn't that what they call (in Qld) "general duties?"

Aussie wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:24pm:

red baron wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 6:18pm: That's all part and parcel of being a Cops Cods. You can be writing speeding tickets, delivering death notices, attending domestic arguments, breaking up fights, investigating motor vehice accidents, executing warrants, attending break and enters and more .....AND  drawing a gun and firing it in extreme situations. All part of being a Police Officer. Every Officer has to know and be ready for the day whether it is a number of times or once in a career, to draw and fire their weapon. But when that moment comes you had better be ready for it or you get what we had at Hornsby. Isn't that what they call (in Qld) "general duties?"

Yes. Queensland also includes blinding old black Aboriginal women with Tasers.

red baron wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:18pm:

That's all part and parcel of being a Cops Cods. You can be writing speeding tickets, delivering death notices, attending domestic arguments, breaking up fights, investigating motor vehice accidents, executing warrants, attending break and enters and more .....AND  drawing a gun and firing it in extreme situations. All part of being a Police Officer. Every Officer has to know and be ready for the day whether it is a number of times or once in a career, to draw and fire their weapon. But when that moment comes you had better be ready for it or you get what we had at Hornsby.

what I am saying is.....should it be like that for a copper..

I have said for a long time. speeding cars should not be for todays copper....what with cameras and instant fines....a big fat car full of big fat coppers to catch a speeding motorist seems out of whack in 2016...

if we are heading for the WIld West.. let someone else deal with poor motorists...the cops have better things to do..obviously!

Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 6:22pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 11:19am: cods wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 8:34am: ... she may have wanted to hit the knife out of his hand... If so, she should be fired for negligence and idiocy. cods has watched too many John Wayne or James Bond movies! Sorry cods just joking!!!    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

very funny red   ho ho ho...


she may have realised this guy was trying to get her to kill him...... as most have pointed out she was close enough to do so....

why didnt she?...

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 4:31am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 9th, 2016 at 10:35pm: So many armchair experts..... and almost every one without a clue.  ::) As someone who has not had as much firearms experience as you, I can only say that I have handled a few hand guns, rifles, and an automatic weapon on rare occasions. However, I have seen how damaging they can be on targets, and can imagine how they would damage someone. And I am speaking as someone who has been shot before. I would love to hear more details about what circumstances the police had to react, in order to not use tasers over pistols.

Tasers are not the optimal choice on a moving target.

In most situations you see them used the target is standing still ...in a stand off fashion.

they only work if you embed both contacts