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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> don't mention Islam http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1459759108 Message started by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:38pm

Title: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:38pm

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:00pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:10pm:

So we should respond to Islamic terrorism by not mentioning Islam?

We should respond to terrorists by blaming the individuals for the murders.

We should then apprehend those murderers and apply the full force of the law to them.

The apologists look for distractions, and excuses.

I'm happy to not be an apologist for killers.

Should we refrain from mentioning Islam in responding to Islamic terrorism?

What's up Greg? Cat got your tongue? Or is it slowly dawning on you how stupid your position is?

Greg?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:52pm

No.

I'm not about to limit free speech.

You mention whatever you like.

And, while you're focusing on beliefs (and words), I'll be concentrating on the murderers.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:01pm

If we were to follow your example and refrain from mentioning Islam, do you think that would make our response more or less effective at preventing terrorism? Do you think that pretending it is a series of unrelated incidents is going to help?

I'll give you a non-Muslim hypothetical example to make this easier for you. Suppose we started seeing a spate of murders committed by people who openly admit they did the murdering because John Laws asked them to. Should we ignore this common link and potential cause of more murders and focus instead on punishing the murderers we catch really hard?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Sir Bobby on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:07pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:12pm

Let's just call islam Fight Club.
What's the first rule ?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:17pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:01pm:

If we were to follow your example and refrain from mentioning Islam ...

I've just told you that you can say whatever you like. There is no way that I could have made that any clearer.

Mention Islam, Muslims, burqas, bananas, boats, bigots, bombs - whatever you like.

As I said: I'll concentrate on the murderers, while you concentrate on belief systems and words.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:01pm:

Do you think that pretending it is a series of unrelated incidents is going to help?

Who's pretending that it's a series of unrelated events?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:27pm

Quote:

I've just told you that you can say whatever you like. There is no way that I could have made that any clearer.

In the hypothetical example, we are all voluntarily taking your suggestion seriously. It's a hypothetical.

Quote:

Who's pretending that it's a series of unrelated events?

Is that not what you are doing, by refraining from mentioning Islam? Or do you see something else that relates them all?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:35pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

In the hypothetical example, we are all voluntarily taking your suggestion seriously.

The truth of the matter is, I haven't suggested that you refrain from mentioning Islam.

That is just a lie you've created in order to get out of the situation you find yourself in now.

You mention whatever you like (Islam and Muslims included). Again, I cannot make this any clearer.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Or do you see something else that relates them all?

They're quite often young men, aren't they?

And, as far as the suicide bombers go, I'd say insanity plays a bit part in all of their lives - wouldn't you?

Or, are you suggesting that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:41pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:35pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

In the hypothetical example, we are all voluntarily taking your suggestion seriously.

Or do you see something else that relates them all?

Makes it more palitable when you've been convinced by an idiology that paradise awaits. Wonder what that idiology could be?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:45pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:35pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

In the hypothetical example, we are all voluntarily taking your suggestion seriously.

Or do you see something else that relates them all?

Makes it more palitable when you've been convinced by an idiology that paradise awaits. Wonder what that idiology could be?

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:48pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:45pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:35pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

In the hypothetical example, we are all voluntarily taking your suggestion seriously.

Or do you see something else that relates them all?

Makes it more palitable when you've been convinced by an idiology that paradise awaits. Wonder what that idiology could be?

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Well of course I don't but some people believe so firmly in their cause and the afterlife they can can justify it

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:50pm

Quote:

The truth of the matter is, I haven't suggested that you refrain from mentioning Islam.

Do you not frequently criticise 'people' who mention Islam in response and mount a rather ludicrous argument against the mentioning of Islam?

Am I specifically excluded from that criticism?

Quote:

They're quite often young men, aren't they?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Sir Bobby on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:52pm

Don't mention Islam.

I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Are you a standard bearer?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:00pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

Quote:

The truth of the matter is, I haven't suggested that you refrain from mentioning Islam.

Good one. I was expecting you to point out that they have murdering in common. Other than the banal, do you think that refraining from mentioning Islam is the same as pretending they are unrelated? If people took this suggestion seriously, do you think it might undermine our ability to effectively address the problem?[/quote]

Slow down, FD.

I'm answering all your questions.

You can't conveniently avoid mine.

Question: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

A simple 'yes' or 'no' answer is all that's required.

You're not going to make me ask it a third time, are you?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:06pm

To expand further on suicide bombings, they're taught in their madrassas and mosques there is no such thing as collateral damage because when you set off a bomb the infidels go to hell and any muslims killed go to paradise.
Source, that horrible Islamophobe Maajid Nawaz.

If you insist that only an insane person would do such an act then I guess we'll just have to say Islam promotes insanity :o

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:07pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:06pm:

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:11pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:07pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:06pm:

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Not from my perspective but for people who've been convinced paradise awaits.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Fireball on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:12pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

No, you’re not a ‘stickler for detail’ at all, you just like to irritate with illogical statements. Basically you’re saying most experts are wrong and muslims are really the salt of the earth, and the Koran is all about love.

Were you under the sheets in bed between John and Yoko (enjoying yourself) in Amsterdam all those years ago?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:15pm

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

If you think my statement is incorrect, please let me know.

I'm more than happy to debate you on it, and prove my point in less than one minute.

"Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims."

Over to you.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:15pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

Quote:

The truth of the matter is, I haven't suggested that you refrain from mentioning Islam.

Slow down, FD.

I'm answering all your questions.

You can't conveniently avoid mine.

Question: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

A simple 'yes' or 'no' answer is all that's required.

You're not going to make me ask it a third time, are you?

[/quote]

FD asks the questions here, Greggery.

Have you lost your ability to cut and paste?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:16pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

The more you struggle the deeper you sink into a mire of your own making.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:17pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

Quote:

The truth of the matter is, I haven't suggested that you refrain from mentioning Islam.

FD,, asks the questions here, Greggery.

Have you lost your ability to cut and paste? [/quote]

I still have the ability to cut & paste my question:

Question for FD: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Fireball on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:17pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:15pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

One liners, that's how you debate.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:18pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

The more you struggle the deeper you sink into a mire of your own making.

Can you ask that in the form of a question?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:18pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

The more you struggle the deeper you sink into a mire of your own making.

If you think my statement is incorrect, please let me know.

I'm more than happy to debate you on it, and prove my point in less than a minute.

"Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims."

Over to you.

Do you want to be added to the list of people I've owned this evening?

The choice is yours.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:15pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

One liners, that's how you debate.

White flag accepted.

Hand it over to Herbie and FD now, and they can wave it together.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm

f arking apologists.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

My thoughts exactly, Homo!

FD, Fireball, and Herbie all seem to think that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a completely sane act.

Why do you think they're making excuses for these insane murderers?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

I don't see how you can think "the gang' think these acts are sane. You've twisted the argument around so much that you have duped yourself.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Fireball on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

That is exactly what you do, constantly make excuses up for these Jihadi terrorists.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:27pm

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

One liners, that's how you debate.

Correction - that's how he trolls.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:28pm

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

That is exactly what you do, constantly make excuses up for these Jihadi terrorists.

You're saying that these people are perfectly sane.

Why would you defend them like that?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:28pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

I believe Maajid Nawaz. Why don't you?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:30pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

One liners, that's how you debate.

Correction - that's how he trolls.

You didn't address my previous post, Herbie.

Why do you consider people who blow themselves up, along with dozens of other people, sane?

Why do you make allowances for insane murderers?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:31pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

I believe Maajid Nawaz. Why don't you?

Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

No answer!

I'm starting to think you're an apologist for insane murderers too.

Why are there so many of you in here?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Fireball on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:28pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

That is exactly what you do, constantly make excuses up for these Jihadi terrorists.

You're saying that these people are perfectly sane.

Why would you defend them like that?

Answer your own question, but your response as always is and always will be illogical.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:32pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

I don't see how you can think "the gang' think these acts are sane.

Not one of them has said that they aren't.

If they think it's insane, why don't they say so?

What do you think, Homo - a sane act or not?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:33pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

One liners, that's how you debate.

Correction - that's how he trolls.

You didn't address my previous post, Herbie.

Why do you consider people who blow themselves up, along with dozens of other people, sane?

Why do you make allowances for insane murderers?

Greggy, are you really trying to say people have never been convicted to give their life for a cause?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:40pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

I don't see how you can think "the gang' think these acts are sane.

Not one of them has said that they aren't.

If they think it's insane, why don't they say so?

What do you think, Homo - a sane act or not?

Insane in the membrane numptoid.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a verbatim quote but from Future of Tolerance

To expand further on suicide bombings, they're taught in their madrassas and mosques there is no such thing as collateral damage because when you set off a bomb the infidels go to hell and any muslims killed go to paradise.
Source, that horrible Islamophobe Maajid Nawaz

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:03pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Have you heard of Maajid Nawaz?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:04pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

I don't see how you can think "the gang' think these acts are sane.

Not one of them has said that they aren't.

If they think it's insane, why don't they say so?

What do you think, Homo - a sane act or not?

Insane in the membrane numptoid.

Is that a 'yes'?

You think they're insane?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:07pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Have you heard of Maajid Nawaz?

Never. Do you have a quote, or do you want to keep pretending?

Do you now see what I mean about porkies?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:04pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:20pm:

f arking apologists.

I don't see how you can think "the gang' think these acts are sane.

Not one of them has said that they aren't.

If they think it's insane, why don't they say so?

What do you think, Homo - a sane act or not?

Insane in the membrane numptoid.

Is that a 'yes'?

You think they're insane?

most of us think that blowing yourself and other people up because you don't believe we just carc it is insane.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:18pm

Quote:

Question: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Plenty of sane people have done it. But the term sane is for people, not acts.

Quote:

Slow down, FD.

I'm answering all your questions.

No you aren't. You are slowly backpedaling on everything you have posted on the matter.

Quote:

The truth of the matter is, I haven't suggested that you refrain from mentioning Islam.

They're quite often young men, aren't they?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:20pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

Quote:

Question: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Plenty of sane people have done it.

You believe that terrorists who blow themselves up, along with other people, are sane.

Ah.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:29pm

Was it you criticising others for mentioning Islam in response to Islamic terrorism?

Why am I specifically excluded from that criticism?

Was it you making that ludicrous argument for not mentioning Islam, or are you now pretending to be someone else?

How helpful do you think it is to refrain from mentioning Islam in response to Islamic terrorism?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

Was it you making that ludicrous argument for not mentioning Islam?

Not me.

I've told you on numerous occasions that you can mention anything you like.

If you believe otherwise, post a link.

That shouldn't be so hard.

I look forward to exposing you as a liar (for the third time tonight).

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

Quote:

Question: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Plenty of sane people have done it.

You believe that terrorists who blow themselves up, along with other people, are sane.

Ah.

Maajid Nawaz does. Do you always disbelieve Muslims?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:34pm

Answer FD’s question, Greggery.

Are you excluding him?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:35pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

Quote:

Question: Do you believe that blowing yourself up, along with dozens of other people, is a sane act?

Plenty of sane people have done it.

You believe that terrorists who blow themselves up, along with other people, are sane.

Ah.

Maajid Nawaz does. Do you always disbelieve Muslims?

Have you quoted him yet?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:37pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

Was it you making that ludicrous argument for not mentioning Islam?

Not me.

So who is this then? The idiot Greg? Sorry if I have you two confused. How do I tell you apart?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

The best way to do that, is to ignore it.

Don't mention their silly religion.

Don't give them the satisfaction.

Direct all of your outrage at the individuals who committed the murders, not a silly set of beliefs.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:40pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

Was it you making that ludicrous argument for not mentioning Islam?

Not me.

So who is this then? The idiot Greg? Sorry if I have you two confused. How do I tell you apart?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

That's just good advice, FD.

Do I need to explain the difference to you?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm

Yes Greg. Please explain why it is not an argument against mentioning Islam.

Or, let me rephrase the question. Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam? Do you always provide advice that you cannot back up with a sane argument?

Was it you criticising others for mentioning Islam in response to Islamic terrorism?

Why am I specifically excluded from that criticism?

How helpful do you think it is to refrain from mentioning Islam in response to Islamic terrorism?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam?

Was it you who stopped beating his wife?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:58pm

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:59pm

Would you agree that this is particularly stupid advice and that a sane person would disown it and find themselves suddenly incapable of making an argument in support?

Quote:

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:01pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

A simple yes or no will suffice.

FD doesn't like answering questions, does he?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:06pm

Hey Greggy, would you need to be insane to go over the top and rush the Turkish machine guns at The Neck ?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:12pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Would you agree that this is particularly stupid advice ?

Quote:

Nope.

Are you going to start answering some questions now, FD?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:24pm

Would you be prepared to make an argument in support of that advice Greg?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Yadda on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 11:14pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that

.......not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

And yet, all of the terrorist acts cited on this www site, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, are sanctioned by ISLAM and by ISLAM's doctrine of Jihad.

And oh yeah, those terrorist acts cited on this www site, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, were carried out by moslems.

----------- >

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Jihad = = fighting in Allah's cause, to promote the interests of Allah's perfect religion, ISLAM.....

.

"I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid [religious fighter] in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.046

In the Hadith verse above, Mohammed is reported as saying that for a moslem, religious fighting, is the same as a religious devotion.
i.e. Jihad [religious fighting], is as if a muslim 'fasts and prays continuously'.
And in Koran 9.111, Allah guarantees that a Mujahid [religious fighter] will enter Paradise, if he is killed, while seeking to kill Allah's enemies.

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

.

In the Koran, Allah even goes as far as to say that moslems who choose to not fight [in his cause] [i.e. the 'peaceful' moslems ?] hold no favour with HIM!!!

"Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-"
Koran 4.88, 89

"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
Koran 4.95

i.e. Religious fighting is an obligation for all moslems.
Allah views with disdain those who avoid this religious obligation, to fight in his cause.
see also, Koran 2.76-78, Koran 9.73-85

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 9:38am

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 11:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that

.......not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

And yet ...

There's no "and yet" about it.

Not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims. Indisputable fact.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Yadda on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:40am

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:06pm:

To expand further on suicide bombings, they're taught in their madrassas and mosques there is no such thing as collateral damage because when you set off a bomb the infidels go to hell and any muslims killed go to paradise.
Source, that horrible Islamophobe Maajid Nawaz.

If you insist that only an insane person would do such an act then I guess we'll just have to say Islam promotes insanity :o

suicide bombings .....by the moslem.

.......are tacitly encouraged, even within the Koran.

And the Koran is ISLAM's primary source for establishing correct religious doctrine/actions.

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111

i.e.
Koran 9.111 ....assures the moslem, that if you, the moslem, kill yourself, in the service of Allah's cause [Jihad], there is certainly a great reward awaiting you.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam?

Was it you who stopped beating his wife?

Muslims are allowed to beat their wives if they fear disobedience, anything to say about allah allowing wife beating for muslims little pecca?
quran.com/4/34

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:00am

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:07pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Have you heard of Maajid Nawaz?

Never. Do you have a quote, or do you want to keep pretending?

Do you now see what I mean about porkies?

The book of jihad by Ibn Nuhaas covers that.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:07am

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam?

Was it you who stopped beating his wife?

Muslims are allowed to beat their wives if they fear disobedience.

Christians are allowed to beat their children ... with a rod.

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."

Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."

Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."

Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."

Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

But we all know they do a lot more than that to kids.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Yadda on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:44am

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 9:38am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 11:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Greggery, why don’t you blame Islam?

Something to do with the fact that

.......not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Yeah, I know: I'm a stickler for details.

And yet ...

There's no "and yet" about it.

Not all terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

Indisputable fact.

greggery,

I won't argue with the logic which your statement presents.

But i am now going to extend the reach of that logical and 'indisputable fact'....

--------- >

Not all terrorist attacks are carried out by moslems.

But every moslem, is a latent wanna-be terrorist.

Those are indisputable facts.

Evidence for that logical conclusion ???

Easy!

QUESTION;

Who or what, is a moslem ???

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM. < -------- dictionary definition.

And what is ISLAM ???

ISLAM is a philosophy which exists to encourage political violence [terrorism] against disbelieving non-moslems.

ISLAM = = Jihad [aka religious fighting in Allah's cause]

Orthodox, mainstream ISLAM = = never-ending warfare, by moslems, upon all of disbelieving mankind, in order to establish the political superiority of ISLAM upon the whole of the earth.

ISLAM = = pursuing deception, lies, and political violence [against non-moslems], to establish the political superiority of ISLAM.

Jihad = = deception, lies, and political violence [against non-moslems], to establish the political superiority of ISLAM.

ISLAM = = moslem political violence and supremacism, pure and simple, masquerading as religious piety, behind a 'veil' of moslem deceit.

More proof ?

MOHAMMED'S URGING's TO MOSLEMS, TO ENGAGE IN TERRORISM [in order to pursue the objective of establishing the political superiority of ISLAM]......

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

AND.....

Allah's Messenger said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

Allah's Messenger said,
".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

QUESTION;

ARE THERE MOSLEMS TODAY, IN THIS AGE, 'OPENLY' ENCOURAGING TERRORISM ?

HOW ABOUT THE EXAMPLE OF AN 'AUSSIE' MOSLEM COMMUNITY LEADER ?

These words were spoken by an 'Aussie' moslem community leader, here, in Australia [only a few years ago].

Google if you wish;
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam."

"There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior)."

"Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."

"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad,"

"Kaffir ['unbelief'] is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

QUESTION;

Are there many moslems who are currently exhibiting a peaceful modus/modality, who are living within Western nations ?

Of course there are. !!!!!!!

But the 'peacefulness' of a moslem, says more about his present impotency to 'successfully' engage in political violence, ....rather than the 'peace loving' intent, of that moslem !

------- >

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:45am

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:07pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Have you heard of Maajid Nawaz?

Never. Do you have a quote, or do you want to keep pretending?

Do you now see what I mean about porkies?

You're being disingenuous, Karnal.

I told you it's not a direct quote. It's what he says throughout the book.

I told you my copy of the book is in Kindle format so not cut and paste-able.

I sent you a PM with a link to the audio conversation between Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz on which the conversation is based.

Here it is again. https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/islam-and-the-future-of-tolerance-a-dialogue

Here is a link where you can purchase the book for about $15 http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Future-Tolerance-A-Dialogue/dp/0674088700

Short of me coming over to your house and reading you a bed time story, that's about as much as I can help you.

If you couldn't be bothered exploring either of these options, then just leave it at that and stay in the dark.

Your call.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Yadda on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:58am

Yadda wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:44am:

Not all terrorist attacks are carried out by moslems.

But every moslem, is a latent wanna-be terrorist.

Those are indisputable facts.

Every moslem, is a latent wanna-be terrorist ???

Yes.

Every moslem worthy of that name/description, ....is an active supporter of what ISLAM promotes in the world of men.

Which is, seeking to establish the political superiority of ISLAM upon the whole of the earth, using every means available, including political violence [i.e. terrorism].

Which is a proposition which is established in the validity of these arguments.....

Quote:

QUESTION;

Who or what, is a moslem ???

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM. < -------- dictionary definition.

And what is ISLAM ???

ISLAM is a philosophy which exists to encourage political violence [terrorism] against disbelieving non-moslems.

ISLAM = = Jihad [aka religious fighting in Allah's cause]

Orthodox, mainstream ISLAM = = never-ending warfare, by moslems, upon all of disbelieving mankind, in order to establish the political superiority of ISLAM upon the whole of the earth.

.

CRIMINAL INTENT, IN THE MOSLEM HEART
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1252898491/0#0

Quote:

Every moslem in Australia [and indeed, every moslem on the planet], by self declaring as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.

ISLAM is a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against non-moslems ['disbelievers'].

.....Basically, fundamentally, all ISLAMIC doctrine translates as enmity, and encourages [criminal] violence, towards ALL non-moslems.

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"
- Yadda

QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:02pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:07am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam?

Was it you who stopped beating his wife?

Muslims are allowed to beat their wives if they fear disobedience.

Christians are allowed to beat their children ... with a rod.

How is that relevant to wife beating, why are you an apologist for muslims bashing their wives?
quran.com/4/34

Muslims are allowed to beat their kids when they turn 7 to make them pray.
sunnah.com/search/?q=children+beat+prayer

Muslims live under sharia law little pecca, bashing your wife and kids is acceptable under sharia law.

You're just a morally bankrupt Islamic apologist

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:03pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Would you agree that this is particularly stupid advice ?

Quote:

Nope.

Are you going to start answering some questions now, FD?

Would you be prepared to make an argument in support of that advice Greg?

Having trouble deciding whether to pedal forwards or backwards? Don't worry, if I had your opinions I would disown them too.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:05pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:07am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam?

Was it you who stopped beating his wife?

Muslims are allowed to beat their wives if they fear disobedience.

Christians are allowed to beat their children ... with a rod.

How is that relevant to wife beating?

A beating is a beating.

Why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:09pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:07am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Was it you providing that idiotic advice to not mention Islam?

Was it you who stopped beating his wife?

Muslims are allowed to beat their wives if they fear disobedience.

Christians are allowed to beat their children ... with a rod.

How is that relevant to wife beating?

A beating is a beating.

Why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

The Christians don't live under biblical law you dim wit, muslims live under sharia law which allows wife and child beating.

Why do you condone muslims bashing their wives and kids which is legal under sharia law?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:11pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:45am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:07pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Have you heard of Maajid Nawaz?

Never. Do you have a quote, or do you want to keep pretending?

Do you now see what I mean about porkies?

I can't open your link, Gordy, but that's not the issue. You said you've provided a quote. You didn't, and you still refuse to do this.

The point of a discussion board is peer review. If you're making a claim about someone's beliefs, you need to back it up with their words. If you don't, someone like moi is going to come along and point out you haven't. I'd expect you to do exactly the same to me. I want you to.

In a debate, you can't tell someone to go and buy a book to back up your claim. No one would take this seriously. If you've read the book, open it up and tell us what it says - then reference the book.

To me, this is the issue here. I don't care whether you blame Islam or not. But I do care about whether you tell porkies. If you can't provide a quote, don't make the claim in the first place. Problem solved.

If you can, no worries. Tell us the quote, back up your claim, and I'll believe you.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:11pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

The Christians don't ...

... ignore their Bible? No, they don't.

So, why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

Do you condone the actions of the Catholic kiddy fiddlers too?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

The Christians don't ...

... ignore their Bible? No, they don't.

So, why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

Do you condone the actions of the Catholic kiddy fiddlers too?

Selective quoting there little pecca, Christians don't live under biblical law, there are many countries where muslims live under sharia law.

Why are you an apologist for state sanctioned wife and kiddie bashing for muslims living under sharia law?

Why do you condone child brides which are legal under sharia law little pecca?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:24pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:45am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:07pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:41pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

Greggy,Karnel, what I posted about suicide bombings was a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Can you tell me why he should not be believed?

Sorry, Gordy, I’ve just reviewed this thread - I can’t find a quote from Maajid Nawaz. Did you post one somewhere else?

Not a quote? Can you expand on this, please?

Where did you get this?

Have you heard of Maajid Nawaz?

Never. Do you have a quote, or do you want to keep pretending?

Do you now see what I mean about porkies?

You can't open a podcast? :D

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

... mind beating and fiddling with kids.

Too true.

So, why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

Do you condone the actions of the Catholic kiddy fiddlers too?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam little pecca.

Why do you support sharia law which allows wife and kiddie beating little pecca?

Why do you support the child brides in the Islamic parts of the world which are 100% legal under sharia law little pecca?

Why do you support the 13 countries with Islam as the state religion that have the death penalty for atheists little pecca?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Actually, the topic is "Don't mention Islam".

So, why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

Do you condone the actions of the Catholic kiddy fiddlers too?

(Notice I didn't mention Islam)

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:46pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Cite where I said I condone it little pecca.

If we follow your idiocy the religion of these criminals is irrelevant or does this being irrelevant only apply if they are muslims can you clarify that for us

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:48pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Cite where I said I condone it.

Snap!

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Cite where I said I condone it.

Snap!

So why do you condone muslims bashing their child brides which is perfectly legal under sharia law?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:54pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Can you clarify if the religion of criminals is irrelevant or does that lunacy only apply if they are muslims?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by gandalf on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 1:17pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:00pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:10pm:

So we should respond to Islamic terrorism by not mentioning Islam?

Should we refrain from mentioning Islam in responding to Islamic terrorism?

What's up Greg? Cat got your tongue? Or is it slowly dawning on you how stupid your position is?

Greg?

FD should we refrain from mentioning those who want to systematically strip muslims of their freedoms when responding to attacks on freedom?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 1:21pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Cite where I said I condone it.

Snap!

So why do you condone muslims bashing their child brides which is perfectly legal under sharia law?

Why do condone the practice of Christians beating their children ... with a rod?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:13pm

Quote:

Actually, the topic is "Don't mention Islam".

Thanks for reminding us Greg.

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Would you agree that this is particularly stupid advice ?

Quote:

Nope.

Would you be prepared to make an argument in support of that advice Greg?

Having trouble deciding whether to pedal forwards or backwards? Don't worry, if I had your opinions I would disown them too.

Dio you often give advice that no sane person would accept?

Quote:

FD should we refrain from mentioning those who want to systematically strip muslims of their freedoms when responding to attacks on freedom?

No. Feel free to quote me in the other thread Gandalf. Does this meet my daily quota?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:56pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm:

Christians don't ...

The topic is Islam .

Is any of that based on Christian teachings?

Jihad, wife beating, the inferiority of women, infidels, apostates ARE Islamic doctrines. The jihadi wife beaters and infidel and apostate beheaders are doing Mohammed's work.

The kiddie fiddling Christians KNOW they are sinning against their own rules and so they are trying to cover it up.

No Muslim is trying to hide that he is a jihadi wife beater and head hacker, the scourge of infidels. He allahu akhbars on top of his lungs, rather than be furtive and arse covering about it.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:02pm

I think he has settled on pedaling backwards....

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:40pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

Was it you making that ludicrous argument for not mentioning Islam?

Not me.

So who is this then? The idiot Greg? Sorry if I have you two confused. How do I tell you apart?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

That's just good advice, FD.

Do I need to explain the difference to you?

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 6:49pm:

I've never advised people to refrain from mentioning Islam.

So, what direction would you like to take your butt-hurt now?

Another lie, perhaps?

It's your call.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:03pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:02pm:

I think he has settled on pedaling backwards....

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:40pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

Was it you making that ludicrous argument for not mentioning Islam?

Not me.

So who is this then? The idiot Greg? Sorry if I have you two confused. How do I tell you apart?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

That's just good advice, FD.

Do I need to explain the difference to you?

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 6:49pm:

I've never advised people to refrain from mentioning Islam.

So, what direction would you like to take your butt-hurt now?

Another lie, perhaps?

It's your call.

It's up to you.

You can take my advice, or you can ignore it.

What's your decision, FD?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm

What is your advice Greg?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:28pm

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

the catholics.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:30pm

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

The individual.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

The individual.

Pecca- What are Catholic priests preaching when they have their members firmly implanted in the orifice of a 5 year old boy?

Love & harmony?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:34pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

The individual.

Pecca- What are Catholic priests preaching when they have their members firmly implanted in the orifice of a 5 year old boy?

Love & harmony?

You're catching on, Homo.

I reckon in another day or so it'll suddenly hit you.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:36pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

The individual.

Pecca- What are Catholic priests preaching when they have their members firmly implanted in the orifice of a 5 year old boy?

Love & harmony?

You're catching on, Homo.

I reckon in another day or so it'll suddenly hit you.

One more time. Pecca- don't mention Islam but I'll mention the Catholic religion. ??????

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:45pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Who do YOU blame?

The individual.

Pecca- What are Catholic priests preaching when they have their members firmly implanted in the orifice of a 5 year old boy?

Love & harmony?

You're catching on, Homo.

I reckon in another day or so it'll suddenly hit you.

One more time. Pecca- don't mention Islam but I'll mention the Catholic religion. ??????

You're almost there, Homo.

Almost there.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:47pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Is that why you were going on about insane terrorists?

What is your advice regarding the mentioning of Islam? Is that shifting the blame?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:49pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Is that why you were going on about insane terrorists?

Exactly.

The terrorists are the ones to blame.

A Koran can't blow you up.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:50pm

Would you accept an insanity defense?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:53pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:50pm:

Would you accept an insanity defense?

Is that your plea?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:54pm

What is your advice regarding the mentioning of Islam? Is that shifting the blame?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:54pm:

What is your advice regarding the mentioning of Islam? Is that shifting the blame?

Are you going to continue answering questions with questions?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Secret Wars on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:49pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

What is your advice Greg?

My advice is don't try to shift the blame.

Is that why you were going on about insane terrorists?

Exactly.

The terrorists are the ones to blame.

A Koran can't blow you up.

Deserves an eye roll.

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Because that doesn't sound to me like an argument you would make, despite its vacuous relationship with your Korans don't kill being similarly deflective.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:03pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Good point, Homo.

You got me there.

What should I do now?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Just to clarify, Homo, has a Koran even gone off accidentally and killed someone?

Fallen from a bookshelf, perhaps?

What about Islam: has that ever gone off accidentally and killed someone?

You seem to be in the know on these things, so I thought I'd just ask.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

Ah.

So, the individual does the "things" - yes?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

So has the Bible.

But still. most people that reads these books don't go off and kill people.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Secret Wars on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone. But examination of Islams relationship or inspiration to an act is verboten in your world.

And I suspect it is the only instance where you believe motive and its enabling factors should not be examined.

Islam got nuffin to do wiv nuffin.

Catholic Church on the other hand..... ::)

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:13pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

So has the Bible.

But still. most people that reads these books don't go off and kill people.

I have both tomes on my bookshelf, not more than a metre away from me, and thus far I have not felt the urge to do anything silly that either book may suggest.

Why is that?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:14pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone.

How many Jim Beam & Cokes have you had, Homo?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:13pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

So has the Bible.

But still. most people that reads these books don't go off and kill people.

I have both tomes on my bookshelf, not more than a metre away from me, and thus far I have not felt the urge to do anything silly that either book may suggest.

Why is that?

Probably because you are not a religious fanatic. I won't say that the koran is a sole motivator. Socioeconomic factors etc etc etc can be motivators. But all these terrorists are taught a religion that comes out of the koran so it must be a major motivator. Motivators are dangerous pecca.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

See this is where you lot get it wrong.

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully, so to level your objections at Islam is mistaken.

You need to level your criticism at terrorists and oppressive regimes. You will find, when you do this, other motivating forces beyond the Quran.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:14pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone.

How many Jim Beam & Cokes have you had, Homo?

How many wine spritzers have you had Pecca? What are you saying?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:13pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

So has the Bible.

But still. most people that reads these books don't go off and kill people.

I have both tomes on my bookshelf, not more than a metre away from me, and thus far I have not felt the urge to do anything silly that either book may suggest.

Why is that?

Indeed.

Motivators don't detonate bombs, though.

People do.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:20pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:14pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone.

How many Jim Beam & Cokes have you had, Homo?

How many wine spritzers have you had Pecca? What are you saying?

I'm saying that Islam has never killed anyone.

It's impossible.

It's possible for a gun to kill someone, but it's absolutely impossible for a religion to take someone's life.

You honestly don't understand this?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:20pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:13pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

So has the Bible.

But still. most people that reads these books don't go off and kill people.

I have both tomes on my bookshelf, not more than a metre away from me, and thus far I have not felt the urge to do anything silly that either book may suggest.

Why is that?

Indeed.

Motivators don't detonate bombs, though.

People do.

True. But motivators get people to do it. Dangerous indeed.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:14pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone.

How many Jim Beam & Cokes have you had, Homo?

How many wine spritzers have you had Pecca? What are you saying?

Islam has gotten people to kill though. Just like getting a hitman to knock off you wife. Not the killer but implicated.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:13pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

No just polluted peoples minds and motivated them go off and do things.

So has the Bible.

But still. most people that reads these books don't go off and kill people.

I have both tomes on my bookshelf, not more than a metre away from me, and thus far I have not felt the urge to do anything silly that either book may suggest.

Why is that?

Indeed.

Motivators don't detonate bombs, though.

People do.

True.

Learn the lesson well, grasshopper.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

He might answer with another question. I've seen him do that a lot.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

FD, would you mind clarifying the difference between Islamophobes and racists?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

Like all the woman who live peacefully in Islamic bondage?? ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:14pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone.

How many Jim Beam & Cokes have you had, Homo?

How many wine spritzers have you had Pecca? What are you saying?

Islam has gotten people to kill though.

No, it hasn't.

Islam can't make anyone do anything.

It's impossible.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:24pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

He might answer with another question. I've seen him do that a lot.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:25pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

Like all the woman who live peacefully in Islamic bondage?? ;D ;D ;D

Are you aware of what the Quran has to say about women Hammer?

Forget about repressive regimes. They've got it all wrong.

Do you know what the Quran has to say about women?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:14pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:56pm:

I take it then that you agree, guns don't kill, people kill people?

Agreed.

oh god. ::)

She won't help you, Homo.

Guns go off accidently and kill people pecca. So they do kill people.

Islam has gone off and deliberately and killed someone.

How many Jim Beam & Cokes have you had, Homo?

How many wine spritzers have you had Pecca? What are you saying?

Islam has gotten people to kill though.

No, it hasn't.

Islam can't make anyone do anything.

It's impossible.

Words can make people kill. Songs can make people kill. People do it though. hate preachers can make people kill with words. Don't ever downplay motivators pecca.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Secret Wars on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

;D ;D ;D

Don't know what you mean by my level of criticism but I understand that Islam is not the only motivator, it may not even be the main motivator.

But I don't believe it should be taken off the table as a contributor and I don't believe its role in alah akbahing cultists killing in the name of Alan should be ignored.

That is my main objection, to apologists who think it should be ignored or that it is irrelevant and that Islam got nuffin to do wiv nuffin.

Rich tapestry and all that. I am not a binary thinker, I can handle complexity and multiple inputs.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:28pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

So this is how you know how they translate the Koran?

The OIC has been attempting to use the UN to re-criminalise blasphemy. Would you regard this as evidence that they "translate" the Koran peacefully? Does this reassure you?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:28pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

Like all the woman who live peacefully in Islamic bondage?? ;D ;D ;D

Are you aware of what the Quran has to say about women Hammer?

Forget about repressive regimes. They've got it all wrong.

Do you know what the Quran has to say about women?

You want some more quotes. There's loads of them.

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them.” Quran 4:34, “Women,” Dawood, p. 83

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:30pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Rich tapestry and all that. I am not a binary thinker, I can handle complexity and multiple inputs.

You support multiculturalism, then?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:30pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

;D ;D ;D

If you are not a "binary thinker", then you would represent that better by distinguishing between Islam and terrorists.

When you level your criticism (don;t know why you're confused about that but never mind) at Islam, you are misjudging over a billion people.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:32pm

Quote:

If you are not a "binary thinker", then you would represent that better by distinguishing between Islam and terrorists.

Mothra do you think that terrorism is the only problem that Islam has given the world?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:33pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:28pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

Like all the woman who live peacefully in Islamic bondage?? ;D ;D ;D

Are you aware of what the Quran has to say about women Hammer?

Forget about repressive regimes. They've got it all wrong.

Do you know what the Quran has to say about women?

"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." [Noble Quran 2:228]

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." [Noble Quran 4:19]

"O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence Allah, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for Allah ever watches over you." [Noble Quran 4:1]

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Gabriel Knight on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm

Not all Christians buttf#ck choirboys, but all those who buttf#ck choirboys are Christians.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm

Quote:

"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." [Noble Quran 2:228]

How are they similar mothra? Is this like Abu's favourite example that if a woman manages to convince the men in charge that her husband beats her 'excessively,' they might offer the resolution that she can beat him in return?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Mr Hammer on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:33pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:28pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:22pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

How many Muslims in the world FD? I'll answer for you. 1.6 billion.

Most of these people live peacefully, would you not agree?

You don't really expect him to give you an answer, do you?

Like all the woman who live peacefully in Islamic bondage?? ;D ;D ;D

Are you aware of what the Quran has to say about women Hammer?

Forget about repressive regimes. They've got it all wrong.

Do you know what the Quran has to say about women?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Apologist.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:37pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

Quote:

If you are not a "binary thinker", then you would represent that better by distinguishing between Islam and terrorists.

Mothra do you think that terrorism is the only problem that Islam has given the world?

I don't think Islam is the problem at all. Well at least not any more than any other organised religion. The simple fact that most of it's adherents live in peace should tell you that.

It is repressive men folk who are the problem. And wars. Invasions and wars. Disproportionate power allotment. Ego.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:37pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." [Noble Quran 2:228]

That's not in the Quran. That is a ruling by repressive men.

Seriously, did you need that explained to you?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:39pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Most followers, i mean the vast majority, read the Quran and translate it peacefully

Oh good. Another apologist who speaks on behalf of the world's Muslims. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "translating it peacefully"?

FD, would you mind clarifying the difference between Islamophobes and racists?

What's the matter, FD?

Cat got your tongue?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Secret Wars on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:39pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:30pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

;D ;D ;D

I am debating with people who do not think that islams relationship and input into intolerance, violence and murder should be examined.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:40pm

Gabriel Knight wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm:

Not all Christians buttf#ck choirboys, but all those who buttf#ck choirboys are Christians.

Miam miam.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:41pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:30pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

;D ;D ;D

I am debating with people who do not think that islams relationship and input into intolerance, violence and murder should be examined.

Did you feel it necessary to question the Catholic Church in relation to the IRA? Or did you simply accept that the problem went beyond religion?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:42pm

That's not in the Quran. That is a ruling by repressive men.

Muhammed was a 'repressive' man. Do you think that has anything to do with Islam?

Quote:

I don't think Islam is the problem at all. Well at least not any more than any other organised religion. The simple fact that most of it's adherents live in peace should tell you that.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:43pm

Gabriel Knight wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm:

Not all Christians buttf#ck choirboys, but all those who buttf#ck choirboys are Christians.

Except for the Muslim imam and mufties, that is.

Muslims are notorious arse bandits. Notorious. Second only to Greeks.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:45pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

That's not in the Quran. That is a ruling by repressive men.

Muhammed was a 'repressive' man. Do you think that has anything to do with Islam?

[quote]I don't think Islam is the problem at all. Well at least not any more than any other organised religion. The simple fact that most of it's adherents live in peace should tell you that.

Most of it's adherents live in shitholes Mothra. What does that tell you? It is not benign intent on their part that stops them exporting their backwardness to the world, through either peaceful means or violent ones.[/quote]

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

Mohammed brought in many rights for women. Women's lots improved markedly when he came to power.

The ME is a shithole because the West has made it a shithole. Are you familiar with what Afghanistan was like before the USSR and the US tore it to pieces and left the Taliban behind? How women were once treated?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:47pm

FD, when you talk of Muslims exporting their backwardness to the world, are you referring to their level of tintedness?

You haven't said.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Secret Wars on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:48pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:41pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:30pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

;D ;D ;D

I am debating with people who do not think that islams relationship and input into intolerance, violence and murder should be examined.

Did you feel it necessary to question the Catholic Church in relation to the IRA? Or did you simply accept that the problem went beyond religion?

Did I not make it obvious that I do not "simply" accept a binary view? That I recognise complexity and many causes that input into actions and motives?

Do you believe Islam has got nuffin to do wiv ala akbahing terrorists who cite its words as a motivator and reason for killing?

Do you think the reasons that they them selves cite as enablers and motivators for intolerance and violence should be ignored?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:53pm

Secret Wars wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:48pm:

[
Did I not make it obvious that I do not "simply" accept a binary view? That I recognise complexity and many causes that input into actions and motives?

Do you believe Islam has got nuffin to do wiv ala akbahing terrorists who cite its words as a motivator and reason for killing?

Do you think the reasons that they them selves cite as enablers and motivators for intolerance and violence should be ignored?

I'm afraid you haven't made that obvious at all but by all means, keep on trying.

I believe the problem to be something 'other' than Islam, yes. Islam per se, I have at no point said that it has nothing at all to do with it but i believe the primary motivators to be 'other'.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:54pm

Mohammed brought in many rights for women. Women's lots improved markedly when he came to power.

Muhammed got his rape and pillage career started by marrying a wealthy widower who was managing her own affairs. It all went downhill from there.

If you are so happy to compare Islam with 7th century Arabian tribal society, why are you so reluctant to do the same with modern society?

Quote:

The ME is a shithole because the West has made it a shithole. Are you familiar with what Afghanistan was like before the USSR and the US tore it to pieces and left the Taliban behind? How women were once treated?

Ah, so non-Muslims are to blame for the shithole that Muslims have created in every single country they dominate, but when it comes to them refraining from hacking each other's heads off on a daily basis, you can devine from this how they "translate" the Koran?

Tell me Mothra, if you wanted to actually find out how Muslims translate the Koran, would asking them be such an outrageous idea? Do you think that might be a bit more sensible than trying to read into their actions on a global scale, while blaming all the poo they carry on with on non-Muslims?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:56pm

I've spoken to many Muslims FD.

Have you ever spoken to one?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:57pm

Yes Mothra. And don't worry, I can understand your sudden desire to change the subject.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:58pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

Yes Mothra.

How do you know they were Muslims, FD?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

Yes Mothra. And don't worry, I can understand your sudden desire to change the subject.

How am i changing the subject?

Would you agree that the Muslims you have spoken to interpret the Quran peacefully?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Ah.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm

At the time of Muhammad's birth, women in 7th century Arabia had few if any rights. Even the right of life could be in question, since it was not uncommon for small girls to be buried alive during times of scarcity. In the Qur'an, it is said that on Judgment Day "buried girls" will rise out of their graves and ask for what crime they were killed. Part of Muhammad's legacy was to end infanticide and establish explicit rights for women.

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God. It grants women divinely sanctioned inheritance, property, social and marriage rights, including the right to reject the terms of a proposal and to initiate divorce. The American middle-class trend to include a prenuptial agreement in the marriage contract is completely acceptable in Islamic law. In Islam's early period, women were professionals and property owners, as many are today. Although in some countries today the right of women to initiate divorce is more difficult than intended, this is a function of patriarchal legislation and not an expression of Islamic values. Muhammad himself frequently counseled Muslim men to treat their wives and daughters well. "You have rights over your women," he is reported to have said, "and your women have rights over you."

Muhammad was orphaned at an early age. He once remarked that, "Heaven lies at the feet of mothers." As the father of four daughters in a society that prized sons, he told other fathers that, if their daughters spoke well of them on the Day of Judgment, they would enter paradise.

Beginning from the time of Muhammad's marriage to his first wife Khadijah, women played an important role in his religious career. According to Muslim sources, Khadijah was the first person Muhammad spoke to about his initial, terrifying experience of revelation. She consoled him and became the first convert to Islam. She remained a confidant and source of support throughout their entire marriage. Though men commonly took more than one wife in 7th Century Arabia, Muhammad remained in a monogamous marriage with Khadijah until her death, when Muhammad was in his fifties.

By then, Muhammad was working to establish a new community. In that context, over the next 10 years, he married several women. In some cases, these marriages occurred in order to cement political ties, according to the custom of the day. In some cases, the marriage provided physical and economic shelter to the widows of Muslims who had died or who had been killed in battle, and to the wife of a fallen foe. Of all his marriages, only one appears to have been controversial, and it was to the divorced wife of his adopted son.

Only one of his wives had not been previously married. Her name was Aisha, the daughter of one of his closest companions. Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad while still a girl, but she remained in her parents' home for several years until she reached puberty. Years later, when absent from Medina, Muhammad often recommended that, if religious questions arose, people should take them to his wife Aisha. After Muhammad's death, Aisha became a main source of information about Muhammad, and on medicine and poetry as well.

Aisha's assertion that Muhammad lived the Qur'an became the basis for Muslims ever since to emulate his example.

Muhammad's daughters also played an important and influential role, both in his life and in the establishment of Islam. Most notable was his daughter Fatima, who is still revered by all Muslims, particularly Shiite Muslims.

Following the Battle of Uhud (625), in which scores of male combatants died leaving unprotected widows and children, Muhammad and the Qur'an decreed that, in order to protect the orphans of such families, men might take up to four wives. The permission itself is surrounded with language that discourages the very thing it permits, saying that unless a man can treat several wives equally, he should never enter into multiple marriages. The usual supposition in the modern monogamous West-that Islam institutionally encourages lustful arrangements-is rejected by Muslims themselves as an ill-informed stereotype. At the same time, Muslim feminists point out that in various cultures at different economic strata the laws of polygamy have frequently operated to the clear detriment of women. Polygamy is an uncommon occurrence in the modern Muslim world.

Today, Islamic legal and social systems around the world approach and fall short of women's rights by varying degrees. Muslims themselves generally view Islam as progressive in these matters. Many Muslim feminists hold the view that the problems presently hindering Muslim women are those that hinder women of all backgrounds worldwide- oppressive cultural practices, poverty, illiteracy, political repression and patriarchy. There is a strong, healthy critique of gender oppression among Muslim feminist authors and activists worldwide.

It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:02pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Ah.

At least it was a response.

He still hasn't answered Karnal's question.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:03pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Ah.

At least it was a response.

He still hasn't answered Karnal's question.

Prediction: he'll answer Karnal's question with a question.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:03pm

Quote:

Would you agree that the Muslims you have spoken to interpret the Quran peacefully?

Not the ones I have discussed the Koran with. Gandalf would probably be the only one I would consider to have a 'peaceful' interpretation.

Quote:

How am i changing the subject?

Mohammed brought in many rights for women. Women's lots improved markedly when he came to power.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:04pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

Yes Mothra. And don't worry, I can understand your sudden desire to change the subject.

How am i changing the subject?

Would you agree that the Muslims you have spoken to interpret the Quran peacefully?

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Etc, etc, tedious command after tedious command to be violent.

Islam is a religion of violence, intimidation, bullying. How can you defend violence, bullying and intimidation?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Ah.

At least it was a response.

He still hasn't answered Karnal's question.

Prediction: he'll answer Karnal's question with a question.

Do you really think so, Greggery? Let's ask.

FD, will you answer my question?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:06pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

Quote:

Would you agree that the Muslims you have spoken to interpret the Quran peacefully?

Gandalf would probably be the only one I would consider to have a 'peaceful' interpretation.

Ah.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

Again FD, i have spoken with many Muslims. They translate the Quran peacefully.

I have spoken with and worked with many Muslim feminists. Quite eye opening.

Tell me FD, have you ever had an equal conversation with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she interprets the Quran? How her husband does?

I am not, despite your sensationalist claim, "speaking" for all of the world's Muslims. I am merely noting that most of them are not at war. Most Muslims are going about their lives perfectly peacefully.

Does that not tell you something?

In the areas where there are war, there is tremendous amounts of unpalatable behaviour. The same can be said for areas in which war has previously been.

But that is a hallmark of war. The West, despite your resistance, needs to stick it's hands up for a goodly portion of that.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml

And now Muhammed keeps women at that 7th century Arabian level.

You are a disgrace to women, Mother.

Absolute bloody disgrace.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:10pm

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:08pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

And now Muhammed keeps women at that 7th century Arabian level.

You are a disgrace to women, Mother.

Absolute bloody disgrace.

No. Mohammed does not. Repressive men do.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Quote:

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God.

Islam teaches that a woman should get half of a man's inheritance and that her testimony in court is worth half that of a man's. Islam permits sexual exploitation of young girls, wife beating, spousal rape, sex slavery and all the depravity we see in the middle east today. Islam teaches that a man can have up to four wives and as many sex slaves as he wants - Jewish, Christian or Muslims. A Muslim woman may only marry a Muslim man. The capture of female sex slaves in war, and the shortage of women created by Islamic polygamy, is a key strategy in traditional Islamic warfare and empire building, and is being recreated by Muslims today in the name of Islam. Islam rejects the concepts of equality on the most fundamental level. Women are equal before God, but sex objects before men.

Quote:

Following the Battle of Uhud (625), in which scores of male combatants died leaving unprotected widows and children, Muhammad and the Qur'an decreed that, in order to protect the orphans of such families, men might take up to four wives.

LOL. How generous of him. Muslims can always find a way to spin the most depraved acts by Muhammed into something positive.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

if you wanted to actually find out how Muslims translate the Koran, would asking them be such an outrageous idea?

Oh, yes. Much better to pretend they think something completely different by misquoting them, telling porkies, ignoring their questions and playing dumb.

What's the difference between Islamophobia and racism, FD?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:14pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God.

Again, you are speaking of repressive regimes.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:15pm

I'll ask you again FD.

Have you ever spoken with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she translates the Quran?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm

Quote:

Again FD, i have spoken with many Muslims. They translate the Quran peacefully.

Tell me FD, have you ever had an equal conversation with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she interprets the Quran?

I have never met one. I wonder why?

Quote:

I am not, despite your sensationalist claim, "speaking" for all of the world's Muslims.

That is exactly how you launched yourself into this thread, but I can understand your backpedaling. Mothra are you even aware that people have gone out and asked Muslims what they think and collated the results, so that this sort of debate does not have to fall back on the idiotic "I met a nice Muslim at the pub yesterday and he did not hack my head off, therefor I know what he thinks about wife beating"

Quote:

Does that not tell you something?

It tells me that war is not sustainable. Only an idiot would attempt to conclude anything about people's beliefs from this.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:23pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

Quote:

Again FD, i have spoken with many Muslims. They translate the Quran peacefully.

I see. Are you giving up on the "I can tell what they are thinking by the way they refrain from hacking each other's heads off on a daily basis" argument?

What aspects of Islam have you discussed with them?

[quote]Tell me FD, have you ever had an equal conversation with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she interprets the Quran?

I have never met one. I wonder why?

Quote:

I am not, despite your sensationalist claim, "speaking" for all of the world's Muslims.

Does that not tell you something?

It tells me that war is not sustainable. Only an idiot would attempt to conclude anything about people's beliefs from this.[/quote]

You do build a great many straw men around you FD. To what end, i wonder?

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

What do you think it means?

And i've met loads of feminist Muslims. I wonder why you haven't? Don't mix in those sort of circles?

As for your "collated data", did you find the outcomes you were looking for on "thereligionofpeace"?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:24pm

Mothra, when you speak on behalf of the world's Muslims and tell us all how they "translate" the Koran, are you doing so from a position of complete and utter ignorance of how the world's Muslims actually translate the Koran?

The OIC has been attempting to use the UN to re-criminalise blasphemy. Would you regard this as evidence that they "translate" the Koran peacefully? Does this reassure you?

Why are you able to tell what the world's Muslims are thinking by the way they refrain from daily violence, but find convenient excuses for the shitholes they turn every single one of their countries into?

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:14pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God.

Again, you are speaking of repressive regimes.

No, I am speaking of the example set by Muhammed for Muslims to follow for all eternity. Are you saying that Muhammed has nothing to do with Islam? Was his Islamic state just another 'repressive' regime that twisted Islam for political purposes?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

I have never met one. I wonder why?

You're an Islamophobe, and you avoid talking to Muslims at all costs?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm

I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD.

Was i not clear?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm

Here FD. Get yourself an education:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/prophet-muhammad-women/

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

I have never met one. I wonder why?

You're an Islamophobe, and you avoid talking to Muslims at all costs?

That, and possibly something else.

FD doesn't want to talk about it.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

Quote:

As for your "collated data", did you find the outcomes you were looking for on "thereligionofpeace"?

The Pew society. I have not seen anyone here seriously challenge the results. Gandalf does attempt to argue that they do not really mean what they say they mean, but has not disputed what they say they mean.

Quote:

I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD.
Was i not clear?

Well, I am glad we got to the bottom of that one.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:28pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

I have never met one. I wonder why?

You're an Islamophobe, and you avoid talking to Muslims at all costs?

That, and possibly something else.

FD doesn't want to talk about it.

Ah.

I'm sure he has many questions, though.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:30pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

Not at all. I have made it quite clear that i have spoken with many Muslims about what they think.

Did you miss me saying that in your rush to repeat the same post over and over again? Despite it being repeatedly answered?

Tell me, is that a habit of yours or are you doing it for my benefit?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:31pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:30pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

It's a habit.

Don't take it personally.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:30pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

It's a habit.

Don't take it personally.

I see.

It's very annoying. Do you think he knows that?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:37pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:30pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

It's a habit.

Don't take it personally.

I see.

It's very annoying. Do you think he knows that?

It's extremely annoying, and it makes me lose interest very quickly.

No, I don't think he knows.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 8:14am

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:30pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

And I asked you what you asked them about. No response. Do you want me to repeat that question as well? Or did you just miss it?

People have however asked Muslims from around the world what they think about many specific issues regarding Islam and politics. They are more than happy to tell you what they said. They even posted it on their website. If you are going to speak on behalf of the world's Muslims, don't you think that would be a far better place to start than your little fantasy about being able to tell what Muslims think by whether they chop their neighbour's head off on a daily basis, or pretending that the lesbian Muslim you met at the communist party AGM is representative?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by gandalf on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 11:58am

FD is this you saying we should refrain from mentioning Islam when mentioning Islamic terrorism?

Quote:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:32pm:

There is more than enough in human nature to make people violent. There is no need to recourse to religion and to do so usually oversimplifies the problem in way that make it worse.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 12:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 11:58am:

FD is this you saying we should refrain from mentioning Islam when mentioning Islamic terrorism?

Quote:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:32pm:

There is more than enough in human nature to make people violent. There is no need to recourse to religion and to do so usually oversimplifies the problem in way that make it worse.

I think you’ll find 2007 FD was saying something completely different, Gandalf.

Google: taqiyya.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 4:20pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm:

I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD.

Was i not clear?

Mothra, are you going to explain for us all how I am wrong about Muhammed?

Also, as you are so keen to speak on behalf of the world's Muslims, would you like to comment on the issues raised in this article about UK Muslims? Do you think this presents a far more sensible and realistic approach to assessing the opinions of Muslims than your "I know a feminist Muslim" approach?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1460355004

Do you see anything that could be regarded as peaceful, but still a problem for civilised societies?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 5:54pm

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 4:20pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm:

I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD.

Was i not clear?

Do you see yourself as racist?

Why or why not?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 9:43pm

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 4:20pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm:

I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD.

Was i not clear?

I said i have known many Muslims and spoken to many Muslim feminists, FD. It's a little more involved than an "I know a feminist Muslim" approach.

Is this why Karnal keeps accusing you of telling porkies? You just make it up to suit yourself?

As for where you are wrong on Mohammed, it has been pointed out to you many, many times but you seem reluctant to concede. I posted up a very esteemed documentary about Mohammed and Women for your edification. It appears you did not watch it?

As for your link to one of Herbie's threads, you can't honestly expect me to take that seriously, can you? You're going to need to do better than that FD.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 10:06pm

Ee-gad, Mother, you’re right! FD is now quoting Herbie posts as proof.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:33am

Quote:

I said i have known many Muslims and spoken to many Muslim feminists, FD.

You also claimed to be able to tell what the world's Muslims are thinking based on them refraining from hacking their neighbours' heads off on a daily basis. Or do I have you confused with someone else?

Quote:

It's a little more involved than an "I know a feminist Muslim" approach.

Have you asked them their opinion on anything? If so, what? Or did you discover their political views through some kind of osmotic process like the other apologists we have here?

Quote:

As for where you are wrong on Mohammed, it has been pointed out to you many, many times but you seem reluctant to concede. I posted up a very esteemed documentary about Mohammed and Women for your edification. It appears you did not watch it?

Correct. And yes I am reluctant to concede based on the feeble counter-arguments that have been produced so far. You are not exactly helping there.

Quote:

As for your link to one of Herbie's threads, you can't honestly expect me to take that seriously, can you? You're going to need to do better than that FD.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Valkie on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:19am

Quote:

Do you see yourself as racist?

Why or why not?

And herein lies the tenuous limb from which the whole argument hangs.

The Islamic religion/ Cult whatever is not a RACE, it is a Religion/Cult.
Therefore, you cannot be accused of being a racist by disagreeing or disliking a religion/cult.

Muslims come from many races, its like a cancer it spreads and infects every country.
It is not from any one race, any one colour, any one country.

If an Australian brain dead moron converts to Islam and I say I dislike Muslims, am I being racist against someone from my own country, of course not, that is impossible.
But in order to run a guilt trip and manipulate circumstances and the law to their advantage, Muzzos play the race card, what a crock.

The sooner we take them to task about this inventive little rort, the sooner we could approach this cancer for what it is and eliminate the biggest threat to human kind since Hitler.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by GordyL on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:26am

Valkie wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:19am:

Quote:

Do you see yourself as racist?

Why or why not?

And herein lies the tenuous limb from which the whole argument hangs.

The Islamic religion/ Cult whatever is not a RACE, it is a Religion/Cult.
Therefore, you cannot be accused of being a racist by disagreeing or disliking a religion/cult.

Muslims come from many races, its like a cancer it spreads and infects every country.
It is not from any one race, any one colour, any one country.

If an Australian brain dead nice person converts to Islam and I say I dislike Muslims, am I being racist against someone from my own country, of course not, that is impossible.
But in order to run a guilt trip and manipulate circumstances and the law to their advantage, Muzzos play the race card, what a crock.

The sooner we take them to task about this inventive little rort, the sooner we could approach this cancer for what it is and eliminate the biggest threat to human kind since Hitler.

I keep posting this and never get a satisfactory reply.
So here we go again.

I dated a girl originally from Turkey who was totally atheist and identified as Muslim Persian. I liked the ideas in her head. She was into public nudity and wine...very nice girl ;)

So just imagine if she had a twin sister who had a really bad case of the Allah virus, and I found the ideas inside her brain so repugnant I could not stand to be in the same room as her.

Would that make me Islamophobic, racist?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by gandalf on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 12:16pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:26am:

So just imagine if she had a twin sister who had a really bad case of the Allah virus, and I found the ideas inside her brain so repugnant I could not stand to be in the same room as her.

Would that make me Islamophobic, racist?

No.

Racists don't judge people after getting to know their ideas and behaviours - to do so would be rational. Racism by definition is irrational. A racist judges someone to be inferior/undesirable/'bad' by default because of their outward appearance alone. In fact I would go further and say that racists/Islamophobes go out of their way to avoid understanding the specific ideas and behaviour of 'the other'. They prefer to put words into their mouths for them - based on well-worn stereotypes.

Racism/Islamophobia is not just ignorance of the other - its very commonly willful ignorance.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:33am:

Quote:

I said i have known many Muslims and spoken to many Muslim feminists, FD.

Have you asked them their opinion on anything? If so, what? Or did you discover their political views through some kind of osmotic process like the other apologists we have here?

Quote:

Correct. And yes I am reluctant to concede based on the feeble counter-arguments that have been produced so far. You are not exactly helping there.

Quote:

As for your link to one of Herbie's threads, you can't honestly expect me to take that seriously, can you? You're going to need to do better than that FD.

Of course you won't take it seriously. People asked Muslims their opinion in a systematic manner and published the results. After all, you once met a lesbian Muslim at your local communist party meeting. You know what Muslims think, and asking them just confuses the issue. You cannot tell me what they think, or what you discussed with them, because that would confuse the issue also. The best you can do is mumble that they have a peaceful interpretation of Muhammed's head hacking.[/quote]

I suggest you spend less time putting sensationalist words into my mouth (is that the only way you feel you can win an argument?) and more time watching the documentary i posted for you.

You would look less churlish.

... and foolish.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm

No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together.

Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:25pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

Are you a racist, FD? You refuse to answer this.

Is there any reason why?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

The documentary is a series of interviews with highly esteemed scholars FD.

Are you ever not ridiculously and needlessly inflammatory when you communicate? It's exceedingly tiresome.

You are wrong on you estimation of Mohammed's treatment of women. I have provided evidence to this end which you have not addressed ... because it conflicts with your prejudice.

And prejudiced you are indeed.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:30pm

Belgian government official Yves Goldstein considers recent developments:

“Our cities are facing a huge problem, maybe the largest since World War II,” Mr. Goldstein said. “How is it that people who were born here in Brussels, in Paris, can call heroes the people who commit violence and terror? That is the real question we’re facing.”

Friends who teach the equivalent of high school seniors in the predominantly Muslim districts of Molenbeek and Schaerbeek told him that “90 percent of their students, 17, 18 years old, called them heroes,” he said.
But despite all of that:

The problem is not Islam, he insists …

It never is. Whatever the problem may be, Goldstein believes it can be cured – as Breitbart London notes – by greater exposure to Andy Warhol:

“These young people will never go to museums until 18 or 20 – they never saw Chagall, they never saw Dalí, they never saw Warhol, they don’t know what it is to dream,” Mr. Goldstein said.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

The good Belgian Mr Yves Goldstein is gandalf, Mothra, John Smith, Karnal, and all the other 'the problem is not Islam, it never is' crowd here and across the globe.

Yves Godstein - it's not a joke, unfortunately.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:32pm

What’s the matter, FD? Cat got your tongue?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:51pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

Muhammed once beat his favourite child bride Aisha for leaving the house without permission. This is the same one he had sex with when she was 9 years old. He was over 50 at the time.

On another occasion a woman came to Muhammed for help because her husband was beating her. She was bruised so badly her skin had turned green. Guess what Muhammed did to show the Muslims how to respect women?

Muhammed turned sex slavery into an empire building industry.

If your series of youtube videos were any help to you in countering these criticisms, you would be able to put your own thoughts into words rather than demanding I waste my time watching whatever dribble you recommend.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:58pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:51pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

Aisha reports: ”Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) did not hit Anything with his hands, besides the time when he made Jihaad in the Path of Allah. He did not hit a servant nor a woman (wife, girl etc.)”. [Shamaail‐e‐Tirmidhi (331) Hadith Number 6.]

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/12/23/refuting-the-allegation-that-muhammed-hit-his-wife-aisha-and-more/

Where do you get your "facts" from FD?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:01pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

It is dreadful to see women like you standing up not for women but for institutionalised, god and prophet sanctioned misogyny.

We've lived through a hundred years of female emancipation and liberation and now we have the mayors of towns in Germany and in Sweden and in other parts of Northern Europe telling women not to walk out after dark on their own. And in the wake of the Cologne sex attacks, we had the mayor of that city telling women they really ought to dress differently and behave differently in public. That Simon, is what is sad, and I find the sheer hypocrisy of those of you who said you were going to defend female rights when actually you think migrant rights are more important than female rights in our community. Frankly, shame on you.

Yes, shame on you Mothra. Shame.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

In Islamic societies there is no such thing as women's choice.
Shame on you for siding with the 'men are worth two women' Muslim crowd, Mother.

You'd rather throw the sisters under the Islamic bus than to 'seem' wacist.

Stupid and shameful. You need to start to think for yourself.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:21pm

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

Utter ignorance.

You are dismissing hundreds of thousands of strong, intelligent, powerful women. And you cry sexism whilst doing it.

Irony much.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:22pm

Quote:

Where do you get your "facts" from FD?

Let's start with your own link, shall we?

Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was ‘A’isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi’. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O ‘A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi’ (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127)

Your article insists that this translation is 'wrong'. It insists that instead of 'hit' it should be translated as 'pushed away'. For some reason it does not give the entire alternative translation. See if you can figure out why. This is what it would presumably look like:

He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He pushed away on my chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

Even Gandalf concedes this one, but instead insists that he beat her because he loves her and did not want her wandering the streets at night.

Trying pulling this one down at the local women's shelter and see how far you get.

Your article goes on to do the same trick in a case where another man beat Aisha:

Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, “You have detained the people because of your necklace.” But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah’s Apostle although that hit was very painful.

In this case, he attempts to argue it should be translated as "poked" her violently with his fist .... that "poke" was very painful.

Are you convinced by this Mothra?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:28pm

So Mohammed pushed her in the chest? Bit of a far cry from a beating isn't it FD?

And it was Abu Bakr that "came to towards me (her)and struck me(her) violently with his fist" . Why did you feel the need to highlight that? Didn't read it properly?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Valkie on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:29pm

Quote:

I keep posting this and never get a satisfactory reply.
So here we go again.

I dated a girl originally from Turkey who was totally atheist and identified as Muslim Persian. I liked the ideas in her head. She was into public nudity and wine...very nice girl Wink

So just imagine if she had a twin sister who had a really bad case of the Allah virus, and I found the ideas inside her brain so repugnant I could not stand to be in the same room as her.

Would that make me Islamophobic, racist?

It would make you neither.
You have a mind that allows you to decide what you like and what you dont like.

As long as you simply stay away from her, no problem, everyone is happy, she may find your ideas equally repugnant.

But Muslims dont stop there, they demand you follow their repugnant ideals or even kill you if you dont.
If this girl demands that you follow her religion, it is she who is intolerant.
If you attempt to force your will upon her then you are the one who is intolerant.

You will note I have not mentioned where she came from, her colour od anything else......because its irrelevant.
QED its not racism.

Does that answer your question?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:37pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:28pm:

In both cases, Aisha explains that it caused her pain. Arguing over whether it should be translated as poked, shoved etc instead kind of misses the point, which is presumably why your own article that claims to "debunk" it never actually provides the full alternative translation. It just would not make sense.

Have you always been an apologist for wife beaters? Or do you only provide this service for Islamically sanctioned wife beating? Why do you think that there is universal agreement among Muslim scholars that wife beating is permitted and they merely disagree on how hard you should hit them?

I provided the second example to show there was a pattern of the author pushing "alternative translation" to such absurd lengths that they are not actually willing to provide the alternative tranlations.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:26pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

It constitutes 'assault' in law.

Teachers are warned very early in their careers not to touch any of the children as this can be construed as 'assault' or even 'sexual assault' if the child's parent wishes to take it to court.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:40pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

That’s true, Herbie, we did learn that.

Do you think they told the eighth century prophets?

Duty of care, innit.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Baronvonrort on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:16pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

The documentary is a series of interviews with highly esteemed scholars FD.

You are wrong on you estimation of Mohammed's treatment of women. I have provided evidence to this end which you have not addressed ... because it conflicts with your prejudice.

With $Profit Mo i prefer to read Islamic texts, his first biography Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq is a free download so is The Sealed Nectar.

-Explain to us how Muhammad treated his wives after he was caught having sex with his Coptic christian slave girl Maria who gave him his only son

- Tell us how Muhammad met his wife Safiyya, did he marry her on the very same day he ordered her husband to be tortured and killed after attacking her tribe?

- Tell us how Muhammad met Juwariya, did he marry her after attacking her tribe and killing all the men including her husband, the Islamic texts say he captured her does that sound like he wined and dined her?

-Tell us what happened to Asma Bint Marwan, why did $Profit Mo want her killed?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:29pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:21pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

Utter ignorance.

You are dismissing hundreds of thousands of strong, intelligent, powerful women. And you cry sexism whilst doing it.

Irony much.

I am dismissing YOU.
Don't try to hide behind others.

I am saying shame on YOU.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:31pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Actually, pushing a woman in the chest constitutes 'Assault and Battery' in law - with a sexual element to it.

Quote:

Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by James on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:44pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Actually, pushing a woman in the chest constitutes 'Assault and Battery' in law - with a sexual element to it.

Quote:

For a pretend women's libber she sure is liberal on getting pushed around. I wonder if women's rights groups would share her fetish.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:57pm

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:21pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

Utter ignorance.

You are dismissing hundreds of thousands of strong, intelligent, powerful women. And you cry sexism whilst doing it.

Irony much.

I am dismissing YOU.
Don't try to hide behind others.

I am saying shame on YOU.

You should familiarise yourself with all of the strong, brilliant, self regulating Muslim women before you write them off James.

You do them a great disservice.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by mothra on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:58pm

Sir James wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:44pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Actually, pushing a woman in the chest constitutes 'Assault and Battery' in law - with a sexual element to it.

Quote:

For a pretend women's libber she sure is liberal on getting pushed around. I wonder if women's rights groups would share her fetish.

Did i say i was liberal on women getting pushed around?

No, i said that pushing someone in the chest does not make you a wife beater.

And it doesn't.

Aisha said that Mohammed never hit her. I'm inclined to believe her over you hysterical Islamophobes.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by James on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 10:00pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:29pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:21pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

Utter ignorance.

You are dismissing hundreds of thousands of strong, intelligent, powerful women. And you cry sexism whilst doing it.

Irony much.

I am dismissing YOU.
Don't try to hide behind others.

I am saying shame on YOU.

You should familiarise yourself with all of the strong, brilliant, self regulating Muslim women before you write them off James.

You do them a great disservice.

I think you mean Frank not James pet.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by James on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 10:03pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:44pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Actually, pushing a woman in the chest constitutes 'Assault and Battery' in law - with a sexual element to it.

Quote:

For a pretend women's libber she sure is liberal on getting pushed around. I wonder if women's rights groups would share her fetish.

Save your silly childish islamophobe rant , I am not scared of muslims. You are the one too scared to speak out against it for those poor women abused by it. You are pathetic.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:22am

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

You should familiarise yourself with all of the strong, brilliant, self regulating Muslim women before you write them off James.

You do them a great disservice.

Pig's arse.

Where do they sit when they attend the mosque? At back - out of sight and out-of-mind like the Negroes on buses before the Civil Rights movement gave them back their dignity?

Where do they sit in the hall when members of the local Muslim community have been summoned by the local council or local MP to discuss or inform them about something?

Do they cloak themselves in submissive chattel-clothing even though this self-effacing practice is not a requirement in Islam?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by freediver on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 8:28am

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Are Aisha's own words about Muhammed and Abu Bakr causing her pain "sensationalist drivel"? Are you always an apologist for wife beaters, or just the Muslim ones? Would you quibble with modern victims of domestic violence about whether they were pushed, punched or poked?

The only drivel here is that website you presented with translations of these passages that were so 'alternative' they were too embarrassed to actually present them. Were you convinced by these alternative translations, even though you did not actually see them?

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Karnal on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 9:25am

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 8:28am:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:44pm:

More sensationalist drivel. Do you get off on it?

Pushing someone in the chest does not make them a wife beater.

Yes, FD, but did Aisha call the police? Did she apply for an AVO? Did she move to a DV shelter?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 10:12pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:57pm:

You should familiarise yourself with all of the strong, brilliant, self regulating Muslim women before you write them off.

You do them a great disservice.

some of the strong, brilliant, self regulating Muslim women:

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 14^th, 2016 at 8:53am

Title: Re: don't mention Islam
Post by Frank on Apr 18^th, 2016 at 12:09pm

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

A re-write is suggested to Yves Goldtein:

Muslims who have been allowed into our countries need to understand that their endless reliance on a false victimization — charges of “racism” when Islam is not a “race” — will no longer work. It is hardly “discrimination” to insist that Muslims must obey the same laws, observe the same rules, as non-Muslims. They have to decide whether to accept the identity of a citizen in a Western secular state that is now available to them, or to cling solely to their Islamic identity, the one that assures them that they are the “best of peoples” and admonishes them not to take “Jews and Christians as friends.” They need to understand that acts have consequences, and that the observable behavior of Muslims, including the terrorist attacks by those who justify themselves by quoting from the Qur’an, naturally has helped to form our view of Muslims and of Islam. How could it not?
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/64125