Too little too late from a Govt who will get trounced out of power.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-germany-wants-refugees-to-integrate-or-lose-residency-rights-2016-3?IR=T

GordyL wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 1:57pm:

Too little too late from a Govt who will get trounced out of power. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-germany-wants-refugees-to-integrate-or-lose-residency-rights-2016-3?IR=T

Integration is not enough. Integration simple means attending the workplace like every one else.

It's assimilation that is required to bring Muslims into the mainstream. First cab off the rank is to strip their women of all that 7th century clobber that announces to the world that since birth they have been reserved only for members of their own exclusive tribe of Mohammedans.

Off comes the hijab - off comes the niqad - off comes the burqa - and no more petitioning for special treatment and special concessions because of their religious sensitivities.

Either THAT - or Go Home.

I notice none of this is attributed to Merkel
Has she been told to stay in her office?

But this is puerile stuff isn't it. First & foremost, Muslims dont integrate. They bide their time till they have established enclaves,  little caliphates where police don't go. They don't allow integration of women. They do draw stupid  young western women under their control and immure them behind a wall of black.
As for learning German, you've seen the sex education illustrations, now read the phrase book.
"Take your clothes off, we are all going to have sex with you" and other useful phrases for the integrated Germany.

It is interesting that Merkel has been back pedaling recently. First she pays the Turks to take back people trying to get into Greece and Eastern Europe. (A complete reversal of policy.) Now this demand for integration, after branding her critics Nazi's. She must think they have short memories. I suppose in German politics, Nazi is catch-all for people you don't agree with.

This new policy is hollow. For a start, learning German may help people living there, but is not a real issue. The issue is people bringing their superstition and vendettas with them. In the main, that is a religion which demands the subversion of other authorities and cultures by any means. This policy is unlikely to address anything other than political appearances.

The scheme is an attempt at damage control that will never work. The worst of these Muslims will simply disappear into already established ghettoes where German is hardly ever spoken.

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

The scheme is an attempt at damage control that will never work. The worst of these Muslims will simply disappear into already established ghettoes where German is hardly ever spoken.

I agree. Political spin for self preservation.

It would be good to know where in the west Muslims integrated themselves?.

capitosinora wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

It would be good to know where in the west Muslims integrated themselves?.

What?? You don't know?!?!!

ISLAMOPHOBE!

from the article:

BERLIN (Reuters) - German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said he is planning a new law that will require refugees to learn German and integrate into society, or else lose their permanent right of residence.

The initiative comes after voters punished Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives in regional elections earlier this month, giving a thumbs-down to her open-door refugee policy and turning in droves to the anti-immigrant party Alternative for Germany (AfD).

Around one million migrants arrived in Germany last year — many fleeing conflict and economic hardship in the Middle East and Africa — and de Maiziere said around 100,000 more had arrived so far this year.

Germany expected that in return for language lessons, social benefits and housing, the new arrivals made an effort to integrate, he told ARD television.

"For those who refuse to learn German, for those who refuse to allow their relatives to integrate — for instance women or girls — for those who reject job offers: for them, there cannot be an unlimited settlement permit after three years," he said.

De Maiziere, who belongs to Merkel's conservatives party, added that he wanted "a link between successful integration and the permission for how long one is allowed to stay in Germany."

Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel welcomed the draft law, which is planned for May.

"We must not only support integration but demand it," Gabriel told mass-selling daily Bild.

Gabriel's Social Democrats, the junior partner in Germany's ruling coalition with Merkel's conservatives, also suffered losses in this month's elections in three German states.

Not all muslims are muslim.

innocentbystander. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:18pm:

Not all muslims are muslim.

Not all Christians are Christians ?

:o :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98KeKV_F9g

capitosinora wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

It would be good to know where in the west Muslims integrated themselves?.

I think there ARE Muslims who have assimilated quite well into the mainstream, but it depends on them - just as it does with the rest of us - to secularise themselves when they are out and about in the mainstream community.

The first barrier to assimilation and full acceptance by the general public are those hijabs, niqabs, and burqas. All that clobber should have been left at Customs when they chose to migrate to a Western country.

They are fully aware that these sartorial affectations are an announcement to the host society that they are not willing to compromise their Islamic cultural habits in order to better fit into secular Western society. These pieces of clothing are an act of defiance and rejection of the host culture in which 99% of the public do not wear their religion or their politics on their sleeve.

miketrees wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98KeKV_F9g

;D ;D ;D

That's really cheered me up, Mike! Thanks for that. I think.

Herb,, it had a slight echo from decades ago that is still relevant today.

Please dont tell me I made an old Man happy, because that would just sound all wrong

The integration line has not always been seen in the same light, even by Western liberals.

Middle Eastern migration to Europe and Britain began slowly after WW2, as the colonies were abandoned. It was the beginning of the multicultural experiment as those liberal views became more widespread.

The idea of assimilation was assumed in what might be seen as a rather condescending manner. "Of course, the immigrants will want to be Western liberals, just like us."
In more recent decades liberal philosophy has reviewed itself, and in trying to be even more broadminded, it has morphed into cultural relativism, which views all cultures equally, even if they don't respect other cultures. The concept was doomed from day one, for obvious reasons.

Now, we see the most liberal of European leaders trying to re-invent assimilation and integration as if it was 1958. It is hypocrisy of the most cynical nature. How can they insult their voter's intelligence so blatantly?

Wait! Wait! I got it!  They re-invented . . . . That was then, this is now!

Hope and Change in Europe


http://www.businessinsider.com.au/map-shows-far-right-growth-across-europe-2016-3?r=UK&IR=T

I bloodywell knew these cowards would cave:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701 

issuevoter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 9:21pm:

The integration line has not always been seen in the same light, even by Western liberals. Middle Eastern migration to Europe and Britain began slowly after WW2, as the colonies were abandoned. It was the beginning of the multicultural experiment as those liberal views became more widespread. The idea of assimilation was assumed in what might be seen as a rather condescending manner. "Of course, the immigrants will want to be Western liberals, just like us." In more recent decades liberal philosophy has reviewed itself, and in trying to be even more broadminded, it has morphed into cultural relativism, which views all cultures equally, even if they don't respect other cultures. The concept was doomed from day one, for obvious reasons. Now, we see the most liberal of European leaders trying to re-invent assimilation and integration as if it was 1958. It is hypocrisy of the most cynical nature. How can they insult their voter's intelligence so blatantly? Wait! Wait! I got it!  They re-invented . . . . That was then, this is now!

The oddest thing about the UK governments in those early post-war years is that they genuinely believed the West Indians, Nigerians, Pakistanis and others would want to return to their homelands once they had built up a nest-egg after a few years of work.

It never happened - and Enoch Powell's predictions proved to be correct.

I've had Greek workmates of mine lamenting the fact that the option to return to Greece was no longer available to them once their children were born in Australia and had become semi-Anglesized.

   

issuevoter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

I bloodywell knew these cowards would cave: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701

Not enough dead bodies yet, more are needed.

It is interesting TODAY, to review what Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the present Turkish President had to say just a couple of years ago [2008], on this topic, relating to moslems integrating into German society.

And the distinction Erdogan made, between integration and assimilation, relating to Turks [i.e. moslems] as residents/citizens of Germany.




http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-5/Recep-Tayyip-Erdogan.jpg




Quote:

Turkish PM to Muslims in Germany: "Assimilation is a crime against humanity"     Cologne, Germany — A crowd of 16,000 expatriate Turks cheered Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan at a vast indoor auditorium in Germany on Sunday as he told them to resist assimilation into the West. The political rally by Germany’s biggest ethnic minority upset German politicians, who objected to a major public event on German soil being advertised on posters in Turkish only. Erdogan indirectly addressed those concerns, saying it was right for Turkish immigrants to learn German and other languages so they could integrate, but wrong to abandon their Turkish heritage and assimilate. “Assimilation is a crime against humanity,” he told the crowd. Many Turks had travelled from France, Belgium and the Netherlands to hear his hour-long address in the shiny venue, the Koelnarena.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/02/turkish-pm-to-muslims-in-germany-assimilation-is-a-crime-against-humanity.html

Erdogan is an Islamic fascist. I think really he dreams of recreating the Ottoman Empire with himself as the Sultan.

issuevoter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

I bloodywell knew these cowards would cave: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701

Cave?  There was nothing to cave in on.  It wasnt a meaningful proposal at all, just more wishy washy platitudes to make it seem like they gave a single fc about their citizens.

Good stuff, Yadda.

It just proves that no leader in the West has had the vaguest idea of what 'Islam' means in terms of social unity and the country-of-origin loyalties of immigrant Muslims.

I lived it up-close-and-personal for years in the workplace, and I know the Superglue strength that binds these people together. It's like nothing I've even remotely witnessed amongst Westerners outside of brawling mobs in a soccer stand.

YEARS ago this same Turkish leader came to Germany and made this very same speech with its predictable response of jubilant celebrations and declarations of eternal loyalty from the gathered crowd.

I'm glad Erdogan made this speech, and I'm glad the notices were only in Turkish.

It's precisely what the German leadership AND the voting public have been inviting into their national homeland for decades now. Chickens coming home to roost.

Needless to say that Germany has long since cooked its goose, and they are now playing host to an entirely different kind of society that's been developing rapidly within their own historic national boundaries.

No sympathy from me whatsoever. The ones who have been voting election after election for liberal-progressive policies to continue unabated were the very same people who labelled those who preached caution as 'racists', 'Islamophobes', 'bigots', 'xenophobes', 'neo-Nazis', and extreme Rightwingers'.

I hope that lot are feeling somewhat embarrassed and humbled now.

They made their bed ...

By the end of the century a great chunk of Eastern Germany will have been partitioned off as an autonomous Turkish state just as Russia has done with all those one-time southern provinces of theirs.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/brussels-metro2.jpg

“Belgian vice PM acknowledges street celebrations following Brussels attacks,”



Quote:

By Robert Spencer on Mar 30, 2016 08:25 pm Belgian vice PM admits: Muslims celebrated in the streets after Brussels jihad massacre, media ignored them Yet European authorities are betting the future of their nations upon the assumption that these Muslims will assimilate and become loyal citizens of a secular society. There is absolutely no basis for this assumption, and it could mean the death of Europe as a home of free societies.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/belgian-vice-pm-admits-muslims-celebrated-in-the-streets-following-the-brussels-jihad-massacre-media-ignored-them




While moslems living in the West, continue to insist that they are moslems,
....they are not going to embrace Western values, nor pluralism.

Why not ?

Because;

Every moslem, is a moslem.



.



QUESTION;

Who or what, is a moslem ???

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM.       < -------- dictionary definition.

And mainstream ISLAM is a philosophy which [within its doctrines, and tenets, and laws] teaches every moslem,        .....that a moslem who murders an enemy of Allah, is a good and virtuous person.



But, what or who, is 'an enemy of Allah' ???

ISLAM [in the Koran] defines anyone who is a disbeliever, as an enemy of Allah!


Seriously,          ......is it any wonder that so many 'nice' people, suddenly buy an airline ticket for Turkey [i.e. Syria], or walk into a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney, or go to the local mosque to obtain a pistol,               .....and then turn into homicidal maniacs ?

No,    ....it isn't.


Because;

Every moslem, is a moslem.



.




Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit




Quote:

July 28, 2006 Islamic Dictionary for Infidels ...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

Google



.




IMAGE...
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/129.jpeg

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior January 18, 2012 Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong "...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance. When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

Westerners brought up in a secular society, even more so a "progressive" society, cannot believe in the possibility of this. We have evidence of that on this forum for a start.
So how can they comprehend the existence of this jihad other than seeing it as a deviance when it is in fact at the core of Islamic philosophy and long term ambition.

Perhaps the Germans ought to provide the asylum seekers with the  integration techniques and demand that they prove their integration skills in a written test!

at post #25


"When truth cannot make itself known in words, it will make itself known in deeds."
- Roger Scruton

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 8:16pm:

capitosinora wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 6:54pm: It would be good to know where in the west Muslims integrated themselves?. I think there ARE Muslims who have assimilated quite well into the mainstream, but it depends on them - just as it does with the rest of us - to secularise themselves when they are out and about in the mainstream community. The first barrier to assimilation and full acceptance by the general public are those hijabs, niqabs, and burqas. All that clobber should have been left at Customs when they chose to migrate to a Western country. They are fully aware that these sartorial affectations are an announcement to the host society that they are not willing to compromise their Islamic cultural habits in order to better fit into secular Western society. These pieces of clothing are an act of defiance and rejection of the host culture in which 99% of the public do not wear their religion or their politics on their sleeve.

I pretty much agree with that.

It's about cultural sensitivity: all business people know that it doesn't pay to make waves in another country so from that pov alone you are of course spot on.

There could be a counter argument that life is not business but that could be just as easily countered leading us back to what you say.

In conclusion: given the context of 9-11 I think it highly offensive muslims choose to walk around in full tent like clothing as if their shite-don't-stink.....HANG ON: MAYBE THEY ARE LIKE US  :D :D :D :D

(...not funny I know!)

MumboJumbo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2016 at 6:06pm:

Perhaps the Germans ought to provide the asylum seekers with the  integration techniques and demand that they prove their integration skills in a written test!

They did provide them with some interesting drawings which I think were posted in the Merkel thread.

issuevoter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

I bloodywell knew these cowards would cave: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701

404 - Page not Found.

innocentbystander. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2016 at 8:58am:

issuevoter wrote on Mar 30th, 2016 at 10:03pm: I bloodywell knew these cowards would cave: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701  Not enough dead bodies yet, more are needed.

Ghastly but true.

Vast numbers of liberal-progressive die-hards would rather see more people killed and girls be the victim of Taharrush Jamai than suffer the ego-crushing humiliation of having to admit that these so-called 'Rightwing' parties are in fact correct in identifying Germany's Muslim colonists as a threat to the future of the over-arching majority culture.   

Here ya go Herb, don't ever say I don't do anything for ya  ;) ...

Paris attacks: Hollande drops plans to strip nationality
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701

ALICE SCHWARZER: “Everyone looked the other way. The parties looked the other way. All of them. The media looked the other way, nobody wanted to admit it. But it has happened in front of our eyes. I’m convinced however, we have, for the first time in Germany since 1945, a growing right-wing movement. There’s always been a small right-wing movement, a few problems too, but a lot smaller than all the neighbouring countries because Germany has really learnt its lesson after the Nazi era. And now, for the very first time, we have growing support for right-wing populists”.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2015/s4433483.htm

innocentbystander. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2016 at 7:49pm:

Here ya go Herb, don't ever say I don't do anything for ya  ;) ... Paris attacks: Hollande drops plans to strip nationality http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35924701

Merci beaucoup.

"Aside from a plan to strip dual-nationality citizens of their French nationality if convicted of terrorist offences, Mr Hollande also wanted emergency powers to be given a new status under the constitution. This has also been abandoned".

Needless to say the rejection by the Far Leftwing of Hollande's Socialist Party brings France ever closer to the day when Le Pen's Rightwing hardline party comes to power.

This current rejection is actually good news. It drives more people away from voting for the Leftwing do-nothing parties.

GordyL wrote on Mar 31^st, 2016 at 7:51pm:

ALICE SCHWARZER: “Everyone looked the other way. The parties looked the other way. All of them. The media looked the other way, nobody wanted to admit it. But it has happened in front of our eyes. I’m convinced however, we have, for the first time in Germany since 1945, a growing right-wing movement. There’s always been a small right-wing movement, a few problems too, but a lot smaller than all the neighbouring countries because Germany has really learnt its lesson after the Nazi era. And now, for the very first time, we have growing support for right-wing populists”. http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2015/s4433483.htm

This 'surrender-monkey' bitch is saying that a growing discontent with having their national homeland becoming a de facto Muslim colonial outpost is a worse scenario than Germans accepting that these Islamic hordes are the future of the nation.