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Member Run Boards >> Environment >> Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1456482986

Message started by Chimp_Logic on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:36pm

Title: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:36pm
Monkey excrement was tested for radiation and levels of Cesium in the order of 50,000 Bq/kg were measured.

The Japanese government has introduced severe jail penalties for Journalists and scientists who report on the Fukushima nuclear melt down disaster in an unfavourable way.

Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineering consultant  from Fairewinds is currently in Japan and has made some very alarming comments with respect to radioactive contamination in the Fukushima Prefecture.

Well done Arnie - well done mate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ_PmmY1whg


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by lee on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:54pm
'Arnie Gundersen, the sole engineer of Fairewinds Associates, continues to tell lies about the radiation released from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. He also continues to lie about the potential effects and seeks to spread fear and uncertainty where neither one are justified. He is a dangerous man on a mission to make money by harming the industry that once employed him – until he was fired for poor performance of his assigned duties. '

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-caught-on-video-lying-about-risk-of-radiation-released-during-fukushima-event/

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:16pm
Good post Chimp

Fukushima is a terrible disaster.

1 kg of coffee      = 1000 Bq

so 50,000 Bq is 50 times the normal amount you'd find in food.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/radiation-and-health/radiation-and-life.aspx

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by lee on Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:47pm
'A 1972 experiment showed that when dogs are subjected to a whole body burden of 3800 μCi/kg (140 MBq/kg, or approximately 44 μg/kg) of caesium-137 (and 950 to 1400 rads), they die within thirty-three days, while animals with half of that burden all survived for a year.[11]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137
140*106 / 5*104 = 2800 times less, although that is comparing the radiation to the crap.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:16pm:
Good post Chimp

Fukushima is a terrible disaster.

1 kg of coffee      = 1000 Bq

so 50,000 Bq is 50 times the normal amount you'd find in food.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/radiation-and-health/radiation-and-life.aspx


Thanks Sir Bobby.

Your kind words will be recorded in my diary. Well done.

I noticed that there is no video associated with your post. I looked very carefully, but couldn't find even one reference to a video.

Is everything alright mate?

I hope things are alright. Well done on keeping your chin up.

...and don't eat anything made in Japan.

Cheers mate and congratulations

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:24pm

lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:47pm:
'A 1972 experiment showed that when dogs are subjected to a whole body burden of 3800 μCi/kg (140 MBq/kg, or approximately 44 μg/kg) of caesium-137 (and 950 to 1400 rads), they die within thirty-three days, while animals with half of that burden all survived for a year.[11]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137
140*106 / 5*104 = 2800 times less, although that is comparing the radiation to the crap.


Well done lee in digging that article up from 1972. Very impressive stuff.

Incubation and latency periods for cancer emergence in humans can vary from 2 to 80 years.

Hey lee mate, do you find it rather odd that Plutonium is being found in large areas of Japan?

Thanks mate and well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:40pm

lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:54pm:
'Arnie Gundersen, the sole engineer of Fairewinds Associates, continues to tell lies about the radiation released from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. He also continues to lie about the potential effects and seeks to spread fear and uncertainty where neither one are justified. He is a dangerous man on a mission to make money by harming the industry that once employed him – until he was fired for poor performance of his assigned duties. '

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-caught-on-video-lying-about-risk-of-radiation-released-during-fukushima-event/


Oh gee lee you are surely joking with that summary of Gundersen's impressive consultancy career?

I am sure that the good folk of Ozpolitic are aware that Gundersen was a whistle blower and alerted the NRC in the USA about several very serious safety issues in the nuclear power he was working. There was a subsequent cover up of the information he gave the NRC, which resulted in a Congressional investigation. With the assistance of ex astronaut and US senator John Glen, Arnie Gundersen's safety concerns were addressed and actually made the industry safer.

Of course, that didn't stop the partial melt down at Three Mile Island a few years later. The reactor core at Three mile island was less than 30% damaged and didn't breach the primary reactor vessel. Nevertheless, access to the reactor vessel was not possible for 2 years after the "accident". It took a further 20 years to remove the damage core and render it safe in dry storage.

Amazing stuff isn't it lee. There are 3 Full reactor core melt downs, at Fukushima which produced 3 coriums that melted through the 8 inches of steel in the primary reactor vessel and bored through the secondRy containment vessel.

Tepco and the Japanese authorities don't know where the coriums are and their state.

I wonder how long it will take to clean up the Fukushima "accident"?

Do you know lee? It would be great if you could find out mate.

Well done on your humorous post lee. I certainly enjoyed it

Well done lee

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by lee on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:02pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:24pm:
Hey lee mate, do you find it rather odd that Plutonium is being found in large areas of Japan?



But you were specifically talking Cesium. Don't move the goalposts.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:30pm

lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:02pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:24pm:
Hey lee mate, do you find it rather odd that Plutonium is being found in large areas of Japan?



But you were specifically talking Cesium. Don't move the goalposts.


good one lee - well done. No come back for me on that front it there lee?

The source of the Cs137/Cs134 is from inside the reactor cores.

There are over 200 radioisotopes produced as the Uranium 235 undergoes fission.

You do realise that a few different isotopes of Plutonium are part of that corium mix?

Plutonium has been detected all over Japan and in the pacific ocean.

Did you know lee, that Plutonium is not a natural element and that all the Plutonium that exists on Earth has been produced synthetically in reactors and used in nuclear power stations and nuclear weaponry?

It will decay away to safe levels though. We just need to wait 250,000 years.

well done lee on exhibiting a level of compassion and caredom not often seen in the Southern Hemisphere

Well done mate. Well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:30pm
.....and keep up the good work mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 27th, 2016 at 2:53pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:16pm:
Good post Chimp

Fukushima is a terrible disaster.

1 kg of coffee      = 1000 Bq

so 50,000 Bq is 50 times the normal amount you'd find in food.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/radiation-and-health/radiation-and-life.aspx


Thanks Sir Bobby.

Your kind words will be recorded in my diary. Well done.

I noticed that there is no video associated with your post. I looked very carefully, but couldn't find even one reference to a video.

Is everything alright mate?

I hope things are alright. Well done on keeping your chin up.

...and don't eat anything made in Japan.

Cheers mate and congratulations



Thanks to the beloved Chimp.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sprintcyclist on Feb 27th, 2016 at 3:20pm


Quote:
......................Monkey excrement was tested for radiation and levels of Cesium in the order of 50,000 Bq/kg were measured........


Wonder if they can make 'monkey' coffee, how they make 'civet' coffee ?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:32pm

lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:54pm:
'Arnie Gundersen, the sole engineer of Fairewinds Associates, continues to tell lies about the radiation released from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. He also continues to lie about the potential effects and seeks to spread fear and uncertainty where neither one are justified. He is a dangerous man on a mission to make money by harming the industry that once employed him – until he was fired for poor performance of his assigned duties. '

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-caught-on-video-lying-about-risk-of-radiation-released-during-fukushima-event/


I understand that he was really good at filing in the short time that he worked for the nuclear industry, and was an ace at operating a model reactor when he was a student. It didn't actually generate any power, but who cares?

He makes a lot more money as an anti-nuclear activist than he ever made as a High School teacher.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:37pm
Fukushima was a terrible disaster, but please quote credible sources. Especially people like Gundersen who helped cause so many suicides in the Fukushima province.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:50pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:32pm:

lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:54pm:
'Arnie Gundersen, the sole engineer of Fairewinds Associates, continues to tell lies about the radiation released from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. He also continues to lie about the potential effects and seeks to spread fear and uncertainty where neither one are justified. He is a dangerous man on a mission to make money by harming the industry that once employed him – until he was fired for poor performance of his assigned duties. '

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-caught-on-video-lying-about-risk-of-radiation-released-during-fukushima-event/


I understand that he was really good at filing in the short time that he worked for the nuclear industry, and was an ace at operating a model reactor when he was a student. It didn't actually generate any power, but who cares?

He makes a lot more money as an anti-nuclear activist than he ever made as a High School teacher.


Arnie isn't exactly an anti-nuclear activist. His main platforms are to improve the safety of nuclear power generation as it is phased out from the grid, and to remove corruption from the nuclear industry, government and regulatory bodies. Arnie was a licensed Critical Facility Reactor Operator in the 1970s - a very difficult title to achieve in the nuclear industry.

His whistleblower status in post 1990 doesn't change his expertise in this area.

And it doesnt change the fact that the Fukushima prefecture is contaminated with various radioactive isotopes spewed out by the Fukushima reactor explosions 5 years ago - including Plutonium which has been found in fields and on roadsides.

Japanese families have been sending samples of clothing, air filters etc to the US for testing. One common thing they have been sending are shoe laces.

Apparently children have been playing in school yards and kindergartens and when they tie their shoes laces up, they use their hands which invariably end up in their mouths or when they touch their face and lips. It has been identified as a source of contamination for young children.

Are you looking forward to the 2020 Olympic Games?

Is Tokyo safe?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:03pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:37pm:
Fukushima was a terrible disaster, but please quote credible sources. Especially people like Gundersen who helped cause so many suicides in the Fukushima province.


The government of Japan and TEPCO are responsible for the suicides not Arnie Gundersen.

Do you remember the Government official who said on national Japanese TV that if one smiles the effects of radiation cannot harm thee?

Doctors in Japan are instructed not to panic their patients by not telling them they are suffering from radiation sickness etc.

How many Thyroid cancer cases in Children who lived in the Fukushima prefecture have been diagnosed? Do you know?

Why is there a booming business in Medical Tourism out of Japan? Do you know how many Japanese people visit other countries which included Australia, just to have a reliable ultrasound check of their thyroid gland or a blood test???

Why did TEPCO refuse to acknowledge the melt downs when they occurred very early in the disaster?

Where are coriums John?

How hot are they? what are their shapes? have they left the building?

Why has there been over 400,000 L of contaminate ground water entering the Pacific ocean as it passes from the hills underneath the plant?

What information can you extract from the IAEA or the Japanese nuclear energy regulators?

but dont worry John, a mere 250,000 years and the Plutonium will decay away to near background levels. And its only 300 years for Cs137 and Sr90.

Cesium is a nasty one John - its a Potassium analog and so likes the areas of the body that Potassium lingers in - like muscles etc.

Strontium, if you check you periodic table, is a calcium analog - can you guess what part of the body Sr90 will like to settle down in?

Japan is one big radiological mess, and the monkey turds can attest to that fact John.

Well done on trying to dismiss the situation as alarmist though

Well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:08pm
Please have some respect for those who have suffered from the Fukushima disaster by not mentioning Arnie Gundersen or others who prosper from the misfortunes of others.



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:15pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:08pm:
Please have some respect for those who have suffered from the Fukushima disaster by not mentioning Arnie Gundersen or others who prosper from the misfortunes of others.



Your respect for what TEPCO and the Japanese authorities has done and concealed is touching John. I suppose the people of Japan should continue smiling to counter the effects of radiation exposure

Well done mate

I think its clear who the vultures are and who have profited from this nuclear disaster

well done John, well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:22pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:15pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:08pm:
Please have some respect for those who have suffered from the Fukushima disaster by not mentioning Arnie Gundersen or others who prosper from the misfortunes of others.



Your respect for what TEPCO and the Japanese authorities has done and concealed is touching John. I suppose the people of Japan should continue smiling to counter the effects of radiation exposure

Well done mate

I think its clear who the vultures are and who have profited from this nuclear disaster

well done John, well done mate


Stick to the facts, chimp. They speak for themselves, and are bad enough. Just don't dignify charlatans like Gundersen who has no respect for facts or for the victims of this tragedy.

I have not mentioned Tepco or the Japanese authorities.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:26pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:30pm:

lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:02pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:24pm:
Hey lee mate, do you find it rather odd that Plutonium is being found in large areas of Japan?



But you were specifically talking Cesium. Don't move the goalposts.


good one lee - well done. No come back for me on that front it there lee?

The source of the Cs137/Cs134 is from inside the reactor cores.

There are over 200 radioisotopes produced as the Uranium 235 undergoes fission.

You do realise that a few different isotopes of Plutonium are part of that corium mix?

Plutonium has been detected all over Japan and in the pacific ocean.

Did you know lee, that Plutonium is not a natural element and that all the Plutonium that exists on Earth has been produced synthetically in reactors and used in nuclear power stations and nuclear weaponry?

It will decay away to safe levels though. We just need to wait 250,000 years.

well done lee on exhibiting a level of compassion and caredom not often seen in the Southern Hemisphere

Well done mate. Well done

I often wondered if there could be some traces of naturally occuring Plutonium somewhere,.. simply just not in mineable, or even discoverable, amounts.

.. are you telling me it's not even worth trying to build a detector?

:o


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:36pm
Plutonium is synthetic. It doesn't occur naturally on this planet. Apart from man made sources, It has been only detected in remote gas clouds in the galaxy.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:50pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:36pm:
Plutonium is synthetic. It doesn't occur naturally on this planet. Apart from man made sources, It has been only detected in remote gas clouds in the galaxy.

...really!

Hmnn, I suppose I imagined it half lived itself away eons ago but then like continuously shrinking the square I also imagined that some atomos must have remained !

...but I will stop that line of thinking now and get on with other things !!

Cheers  ;)


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 6:21pm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0375947415001827

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 7:27pm
According to my handy Isotope App on my Ipad, Plutonium has about 20 different isotopes all of which are not-naturally found on Earth. Most of the Plutonium isotopes have small half lifes, and some of them are unknown.

the range of Plutonium isotopes is from Pu228 to Pu247

The dangerous long lived Plutonium isotopes are

Pu238 (half life = 88 years)
Pu239 (half life = 24,094 years)
Pu240 (half life = 6,559 years)
Pu242 (half Life = 373,300 years)

And we must remember that between 10 and 20 half lifes are needed before the isotope can decay away into safe background radiation levels.

It is the Pu239 isotope which is primarily used in Plutonium based Nuclear Weapons.

It's an alpha emitting radioisotope so, when it decays it releases an alpha particle which is a Helium nucleus (two protons and two neutrons - no electrons, just the Helium nucleus)
Alpha particles struggle to penetrate a piece of paper, and will not go through your skin. The danger with Plutonium and most alpha emitters is when Plutonium particles are ingested, absorbed through the skin pores or lesions or inhaled directly into the lungs.

Internal radiation is where a lot of the cancers originate. The high half life means that the Alpha emitting particle lodged in the lung for example will continue to irradiate and damage cells and DNA around it throughout the life of the person who has been contaminated.

The IAEA and other regulatory bodies refer to external radiation exposure when it assesses health risks. Very convenient approach isnt it ladies and gentlemen.

And the external radiation risk model is based upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki data, and applied to a healthy 26 years old male, weighing about 70kg.

We know that children are up to 100 times more sensitive to radiation exposure than adults due to their inherently higher cell division rates as they growth. Also females are more sensitive to males. And the fetus in a pregnant woman is the most sensitive - many orders of magnitude more sensitive than adults.

After the Fukushima meltdowns The Japanese authorities increased the acceptable levels of radiation exposure for the general public by a factor of 20 (ie from 1mSv per year to 20 mSv per year)

Likewise, Nuclear power workers had their acceptable limits increased from 20 mSv/year to 200 mSv/year so that they could work longer at the Fukushima Daichi plant.

NB: the manager of the Daichi plant recently died of cancer - he worked in terribly dangerous conditions and it is said that he often shielded his radiation badge with a strip of lead so that he could continue working. Nobody really knows how much radiation he was exposed to.

yes - dont worry about a thing - the ace up the sleeve of the Nuclear power industry is the long latency period of cancer attributable to radiation exposure in the environment. People will suffer and die in the future. There will be genetic damage for a very long time.

TEPCO and Japanese government have a lot to answer for.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 7:58pm
Yes, there are Pu isotopes with very long half lives.  That's why you can still find Pu all over Japan from the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations for a start.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep09636

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 8:10pm
Indeed. With respect to Cesium isotopes though, detection centers around the Cs137 and Cs134 isotopes. Cs134 has a half life of about 2 years, so after about 20 years Cs134 levels are close to background levels.

Nuclear surface tests have ceased for many decades now, so the post March 2011 Cesium levels detected in Japan and in the northern Hemisphere in general, have been sourced to the Fukushima Daichi meltdowns and explosions because of the coupled detection of Cs137 and Cs134.

radiological surveys post Hiroshima and Nagasaki are well documented and in the scientific literature.

Well done John on your support for the TEPCO - as you may well know, TEPCO is a major corporate owner of the Victorian BRown Coal power facilities in Latrobe Valley.

Well done on supporting TEPCO as they keep your power bills to a reasonable level.

Well done John, you are personally paying for the radioactive cover up...sorry I mean clean up in Fukushima and the pacific/ Well done on that front John - well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 27th, 2016 at 8:23pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 8:10pm:
Well done John on your support for the TEPCO - as you may well know, TEPCO is a major corporate owner of the Victorian BRown Coal power facilities in Latrobe Valley.

Well done on supporting TEPCO as they keep your power bills to a reasonable level.

Well done John, you are personally paying for the radioactive cover up...sorry I mean clean up in Fukushima and the pacific/ Well done on that front John - well done mate


I didn't realise that I gave the impression that I supported Tepco.  From which post of mine did you make such an auspicious jump to arrive at that conclusion?




Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 9:15pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 8:23pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 8:10pm:
Well done John on your support for the TEPCO - as you may well know, TEPCO is a major corporate owner of the Victorian BRown Coal power facilities in Latrobe Valley.

Well done on supporting TEPCO as they keep your power bills to a reasonable level.

Well done John, you are personally paying for the radioactive cover up...sorry I mean clean up in Fukushima and the pacific/ Well done on that front John - well done mate


I didn't realise that I gave the impression that I supported Tepco.  From which post of mine did you make such an auspicious jump to arrive at that conclusion?



Congratulations John on responding to my post. Well done mate.

It's not that you "suggested" support for TEPCO but rather that you identified Arnie Gundersen as a person that should be blamed for the suicide rate in Japan post Fukushima. You did not identify TEPCO and/or the Government for similar blame for the suicide rate.

I believe any reasonable person would assume that you rank Arnie much higher on the suicide blame list than either TEPCO or the Japanese government.

You have a serious decision to make John. Do you respond with a full list of "suicide blamers" or do you flee into the hills?

I know what I would do John

I really like the sky diving monkey John - how on earth did you think of that? Well done mate


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:03pm
who measures in Bq

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:38pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:03pm:
who measures in Bq


well Bq, like Sieverts and Grays is SI units

or do you prefer Roentgens?

Congratulations by the way on contributing to this very important thread theme.

Well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:44pm
and we havent even discussed the effects of Uranium - another vicious alpha emitter when it enters the body and lodges into organs and tissue.

I wonder if anybody in here has looked into the effects of depleted Uranium weapons on genetic damage and cancer incidence.

Lets take a quick look at what has happened to Fallujah, Iraq


Fallujah


In 2009 I helped organize the first study of cancer and infant mortality in Fallujah Iraq - a paper which has now had 27,000 accesses and 18,000 downloads from the journal website and has been something of a phenomenon in the media (though not of course the BBC).

The results showed an enormous increase in cancer, and this was most clear for in children (0-14) where the rate was 12.6 times the expected and in leukemia in young adults 0-34 where the rate was 38 times the expected.

Now these are pretty astonishing findings. The biggest leukemia increase in Hiroshima was about 17-fold, and this was ascribed to radiation exposures. But whatever caused this in Fallujah, also increased rates of congenital defects in the newborn and altered the sex ratio at birth.

The sex ratio, the number of boys born per 1000 girls, fell from 1050 to about 800, a signal of genetic damage. We looked for the cause of this genetic damage in the hair of the mothers of the birth defect children and found a huge excess of Uranium. This result also caused a splash, with 16,000 accesses to the paper since its publication in 2011.

Uranium weapons cause genetic damage

Of course, these Fallujah studies just confirmed what the Iraqi doctors had been saying ever since Gulf War 1 when the US vapourised about 350 tons of the stuff over the Iraqi population. Uranium weapons were causing the genetic damage.

There were reports of similar effects in the Balkans and in Gulf war veterans and their children. Discussion can be found in these papers and the third one, where the congenital malformation rates are calculated.

The UK Gulf veterans are now in their 40s and are beginning to develop cancer. There are studies showing that US veterans have had children with birth defects. I have been involved in a number of Gulf war cancer cases in Ministry of Defence Pensions appeals, and notably in a coroner inquest in 2009 into the death of Gulf Veteran Stuart Dyson.

He died from colon cancer at the young age (for that disease) of 40, and the jury concluded that his cancer was caused by Depleted Uranium exposure, a finding that caused severe headaches for the Secretary of State for Defence.


http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2205213/uranium_the_demon_metal_that_threatens_us_all.html

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:48pm
I wonder if John knew that Uranium could bind with DNA and cause genetic damage?

There are scientific articles that date back to the 1960s highlighting the direct link between Uranium and damage to the DNA code.

Amazing isnt it John

absolutely amazing

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:38am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:03pm:
who measures in Bq


I know. In Australia, we tend to use Curies.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Lisa Jones on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:49am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:32pm:

lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:54pm:
'Arnie Gundersen, the sole engineer of Fairewinds Associates, continues to tell lies about the radiation released from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. He also continues to lie about the potential effects and seeks to spread fear and uncertainty where neither one are justified. He is a dangerous man on a mission to make money by harming the industry that once employed him – until he was fired for poor performance of his assigned duties. '

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-caught-on-video-lying-about-risk-of-radiation-released-during-fukushima-event/


I understand that he was really good at filing in the short time that he worked for the nuclear industry, and was an ace at operating a model reactor when he was a student. It didn't actually generate any power, but who cares?

He makes a lot more money as an anti-nuclear activist than he ever made as a High School teacher.


I can't believe you posted that.

This disaster was always going to continue to affect the environment.

And it has.

Don't try and play it down.



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Lisa Jones on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:50am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:38am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:03pm:
who measures in Bq


I know. In Australia, we tend to use Curies.


Oh sigh.....

>:(

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Lisa Jones on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:53am

lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:54pm:
'Arnie Gundersen, the sole engineer of Fairewinds Associates, continues to tell lies about the radiation released from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. He also continues to lie about the potential effects and seeks to spread fear and uncertainty where neither one are justified. He is a dangerous man on a mission to make money by harming the industry that once employed him – until he was fired for poor performance of his assigned duties. '

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-caught-on-video-lying-about-risk-of-radiation-released-during-fukushima-event/


Translation : He revealed the truth and was character assassinated in an attempt to discredit his revelations.


Soooo see through  ::)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:17am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 9:15pm:
It's not that you "suggested" support for TEPCO but rather that you identified Arnie Gundersen as a person that should be blamed for the suicide rate in Japan post Fukushima. You did not identify TEPCO and/or the Government for similar blame for the suicide rate.

I believe any reasonable person would assume that you rank Arnie much higher on the suicide blame list than either TEPCO or the Japanese government.

You have a serious decision to make John. Do you respond with a full list of "suicide blamers" or do you flee into the hills?

I know what I would do John

I really like the sky diving monkey John - how on earth did you think of that? Well done mate


I'm glad you liked the sky diving monkey. I really don't know much about Tepco apart from the fact that they were doing what most corporations would do in that situation. Maximise anything positive, and minimise damage to their name,

As far as the Japanese government was concerned, they handled the situation probably about as well as the Australian government would handle such a situation - Abysmally.

In total  20:20 crystal clear hindsight, the Japanese Ministry of the Environment should have been much more forceful in their directions to TEPCO. There should have been more positive action earlier. Of course it was extremely difficult to get anywhere near the reactors because of the high radiation levels. 

Did Gundersen or Greenpeace, or the Japanese Media cause most of the suicides? Probably not, and it's probably impossible to say.

I can understand the views of the anti-nuclear movement. They make some valid points, but people like Gundersen undermine their credibility because of his stupidity and the emotive nature of his  pronouncements. His technical knowledge is weak, and he deliberately makes "off the planet" announcements.

In such a situation, people need the truth without lies and hyperbole. If you were a citizen of Fukushima, would you prefer someone who could rationally explain the facts, and  what measures you could take to protect your life and those of your family? - or would you prefer some wide eyed lunatic to tell you that you're going to die from cancer, and totally over-exaggerate the situation?

Somebody earlier posted that Gundersen was dangerous. I agree. He is as dangerous as anybody who doesn't stick to the facts.

The anti-nuclear  movement would do better to disown Gundersen.  They would have a much better case if they just stuck to the facts.

Do you as an individual  think that the ends justify the means? Would you lie in order to achieve your goal?  I thought that you had more integrity than stoop to such a level.

Renewable energy, such as solar or wind, is a much better alternative than nuclear energy.  In a country like Australia with such enormous resources, it seems stupid, and almost criminal that we are still subsiding fossil fuel production and limiting the growth of renewable energy. 

All four major banks are lending money to fossil fuel producers. Do you know which banks lend the most? I do. 

http://www.marketforces.org.au/banks/compare

I do not invest with any company that supports fossil fuel interests. Do you?   

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:24am

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:53am:
Translation : He revealed the truth and was character assassinated in an attempt to discredit his revelations.
Soooo see through  ::)


On this very rare occasion, Lee is right. I know enough about nuclear physics to understand that Gundersen is grossly exaggerating things for his own financial gain.

The last thing we need is panic and grossly inaccurate reporting. 

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:32am

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:49am:
I can't believe you posted that.

This disaster was always going to continue to affect the environment.

And it has.

Don't try and play it down.


The disaster has affected the environment, but not to the extent that Gundersen claims.  It will almost certainly have no discernable effect outside of Japan.  The West Coast of the US and even Hawaii will not be affected.

I have very high standards when it comes to the truth. I wouldn't touch Gundersen with a bargepole.

I don't support nuclear energy, and the truth is  something sacred to me. If I see somebody blatantly lying, I will distance myself from their views regardless of how unpopular that stance is, even if it supports my position.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:44am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:44pm:
I wonder if anybody in here has looked into the effects of depleted Uranium weapons on genetic damage and cancer incidence.


I have. The worst thing about depleted Uranium ordnance is that it contains much more than just depleted Uranium.

George Bush Snr has a great deal to answer for. If Saddam Hussein had used the same weapons, it would have been one more count that he would have been tried for war crimes.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Lisa Jones on Feb 28th, 2016 at 10:19am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:32am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:49am:
I can't believe you posted that.

This disaster was always going to continue to affect the environment.

And it has.

Don't try and play it down.


The disaster has affected the environment, but not to the extent that Gundersen claims.  It will almost certainly have no discernable effect outside of Japan.  The West Coast of the US and even Hawaii will not be affected.

I have very high standards when it comes to the truth. I wouldn't touch Gundersen with a bargepole.

I don't support nuclear energy, and the truth is  something sacred to me. If I see somebody blatantly lying, I will distance myself from their views regardless of how unpopular that stance is, even if it supports my position.


Ok.....I'm happy now...but I was very miffed before ^^^ post.

I remain very concerned about the environment (natural and built).

As a parent, I want to make sure our children inherit a safe and secure future. For that to happen, both our natural and built environment needs to be protected against harm....and neglect.

Hence :

Enter-----> global sustainability

Exit------> global nuclear energy




Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 28th, 2016 at 10:22am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:44am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:44pm:
I wonder if anybody in here has looked into the effects of depleted Uranium weapons on genetic damage and cancer incidence.


I have. The worst thing about depleted Uranium ordnance is that it contains much more than just depleted Uranium.

George Bush Snr has a great deal to answer for. If Saddam Hussein had used the same weapons, it would have been one more count that he would have been tried for war crimes.



Depleted Uranium is highly radioactive & extremely toxic if ingested.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 1:43pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 10:22am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:44am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:44pm:
I wonder if anybody in here has looked into the effects of depleted Uranium weapons on genetic damage and cancer incidence.


I have. The worst thing about depleted Uranium ordnance is that it contains much more than just depleted Uranium.

George Bush Snr has a great deal to answer for. If Saddam Hussein had used the same weapons, it would have been one more count that he would have been tried for war crimes.



Depleted Uranium is highly radioactive & extremely toxic if ingested.


- and if it "hypothetically" contains nuclear fission waste, it's 1000 times worse. Uranium-238 itself has very low activity, but it is highly toxic and carcinogenic. Its half life is the age of the solar system.

In its solid form, you can handle it quite safely with rubber gloves. It's an alpha emitter. The finely powdered oxides, UO2 or U3O8 are much more dangerous. What chimp said about internal exposure was close to the mark.    



If you want to educate yourself on units of measurement, ANSTO provide a good resource. At one stage in my career, I used to correspond with ANSTO quite frequently.

http://www.ansto.gov.au/NuclearFacts/AboutNuclearScience/MeasuringRadiation/

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 28th, 2016 at 3:00pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 1:43pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 10:22am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:44am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:44pm:
I wonder if anybody in here has looked into the effects of depleted Uranium weapons on genetic damage and cancer incidence.


I have. The worst thing about depleted Uranium ordnance is that it contains much more than just depleted Uranium.

George Bush Snr has a great deal to answer for. If Saddam Hussein had used the same weapons, it would have been one more count that he would have been tried for war crimes.



Depleted Uranium is highly radioactive & extremely toxic if ingested.


- and if it "hypothetically" contains nuclear fission waste, it's 1000 times worse. Uranium-238 itself has very low activity, but it is highly toxic and carcinogenic. Its half life is the age of the solar system.

In its solid form, you can handle it quite safely with rubber gloves. It's an alpha emitter. The finely powdered oxides, UO2 or U3O8 are much more dangerous. What chimp said about internal exposure was close to the mark.    



If you want to educate yourself on units of measurement, ANSTO provide a good resource. At one stage in my career, I used to correspond with ANSTO quite frequently.

http://www.ansto.gov.au/NuclearFacts/AboutNuclearScience/MeasuringRadiation/


The cradle of Civilisation has been radioactively contaminated for effectively eternity.

Who are the terrorists in this world?

Who are committing the war crimes and atrocities?


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 3:52pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 3:00pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 1:43pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 10:22am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:44am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:44pm:
I wonder if anybody in here has looked into the effects of depleted Uranium weapons on genetic damage and cancer incidence.


I have. The worst thing about depleted Uranium ordnance is that it contains much more than just depleted Uranium.

George Bush Snr has a great deal to answer for. If Saddam Hussein had used the same weapons, it would have been one more count that he would have been tried for war crimes.



Depleted Uranium is highly radioactive & extremely toxic if ingested.


- and if it "hypothetically" contains nuclear fission waste, it's 1000 times worse. Uranium-238 itself has very low activity, but it is highly toxic and carcinogenic. Its half life is the age of the solar system.

In its solid form, you can handle it quite safely with rubber gloves. It's an alpha emitter. The finely powdered oxides, UO2 or U3O8 are much more dangerous. What chimp said about internal exposure was close to the mark.    



If you want to educate yourself on units of measurement, ANSTO provide a good resource. At one stage in my career, I used to correspond with ANSTO quite frequently.

http://www.ansto.gov.au/NuclearFacts/AboutNuclearScience/MeasuringRadiation/


The cradle of Civilisation has been radioactively contaminated for effectively eternity.

Who are the terrorists in this world?

Who are committing the war crimes and atrocities?


I read a report at some stage  from a German national who took a sample of a discarded shell and took it to Germany's nuclear agency.

The findings showed that the activity was much higher that that expected from depleted Uranium alone, and I seem to remember that it contained fission byproducts  in small amounts.

They took some time to decontaminate the office where the individual delivered this material.

If you like conspiracy theories, I can no longer find that report anywhere on the net.  Hopefully I won't be accosted by men in black suits for divulging this  ;D

One of the problems with DU is that when it hits the target, it burns, leaving mostly UO2 in the form of a fine yellow powder. When kids play amongst this stuff, they inhale and ingest it. When you're talking anti-tank ordnance, this amounts to a large quantity of material.

Disgusting business. DU ordnance should be banned worldwide. 

As far as cleaning it up is concerned, it can be done fairly easily, but I have no idea whether it has been or not.  It can be detected with most survey meters with the appropriate probe, but from experience, the alpha probe needs to be very close to the radioactive  source (about 10mm)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 28th, 2016 at 4:53pm
Photo of depleted Uranium.



Anonymous contributor.

Quote:
The "depleted" in "depleted uranium" refers to the fact that the percentage of highly radioactive U-235 in it has been reduced from its naturally occurring concentration, leaving a larger fraction of the less-radioactive U-238 that makes up the vast bulk of natural uranium. But depleted doesn't mean eliminated: In fact the radioactivity of depleted uranium is only about 20% less than that of naturally occurring uranium!

That means this cylinder, though depleted, is still the most radioactive thing I have in my collection. It represent about 140 microCuries of total activity (about 300,000,000 disintegrations per minute). A Geiger counter held up to the side of it will read about 100,000 counts per minute. Fortunately, the radiation from uranium and its decay products is mostly in the form of alpha particles that do not penetrate skin. Holding this cylinder is probably not particularly harmful, though it's not something I do for any longer than necessary to shock people. (There is almost certainly a greater health hazard associated with any uranium oxide that might form on the surface and get onto hands and into lungs from there. For that reason I have put a thick coating of varnish over the cylinder. The main sample photograph was taken before I varnished the cylinder, while the 3D version was made after, and clearly shows the thick, glossy varnish.)


http://periodictable.com/Items/092.9/index.html


100,000 cpm is a hell of a lot.
You would normally measure about 40 cpm from natural objects
which means that the metal in the picture
is 2500 times more radioactive than normal matter such as a brick.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:41pm
100,000CPM is high. That's a contact count rate of course. If you measure the count rate 5 cm away, it would be close to background if it's due to alpha particles.
I'm not sure if I'd want an alpha emitter that hot in my house. If its registering 100,000 CPS through the varnish, it must be picking up some other impurity.

The most radioactive sample I have is around 10,000 CPM.  You can pick similar samples off the road side near a certain disused Uranium mine if you know what you're looking for.

Of course Brazil nuts are pretty good too if you just want something that will register.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwUTZVc6zU

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:44pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:41pm:
100,000CPM is high. That's a contact count rate of course. If you measure the count rate 5 cm away, it would be close to background if it's due to alpha particles.
I'm not sure if I'd want an alpha emitter that hot in my house. If its registering 100,000 CPS through the varnish, it must be picking up some other impurity.

The most radioactive sample I have is around 10,000 CPM.  You can pick similar samples off the road side near a certain disused Uranium mine if you know what you're looking for.

Of course Brazil nuts are pretty good too if you just want something that will register.



Actually - some objects like bricks can measure well over the normal 40 cpm.
They can be as high as 250 cpm -
so can granite counter tops & crystal glass.
100,000 cpm is ridiculous.

Those Brazil nuts don't look safe to eat.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:48pm
Uranium glass?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_D2fINqyr8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJE-cL7wgEc

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:58pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:44pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:41pm:
100,000CPM is high. That's a contact count rate of course. If you measure the count rate 5 cm away, it would be close to background if it's due to alpha particles.
I'm not sure if I'd want an alpha emitter that hot in my house. If its registering 100,000 CPS through the varnish, it must be picking up some other impurity.

The most radioactive sample I have is around 10,000 CPM.  You can pick similar samples off the road side near a certain disused Uranium mine if you know what you're looking for.

Of course Brazil nuts are pretty good too if you just want something that will register.



Actually - some objects like bricks can measure well over the normal 40 cpm.
They can be as high as 250 cpm -
so can granite counter tops & crystal glass.
100,000 cpm is ridiculous.

Those Brazil nuts don't look safe to eat.


Don't feed them to your pets. If they eat too much, they will leave little radioactive deposits when you take them outside  ;D

Actually, cats that are treated with radioisotopes excrete quite high activities of radiation. They are treated with a radioactive iodine isotope if they have over active thyroids (a relatively common feline condition).  They usually have to spend about 48 hours at the vet until their poo gets back to acceptable levels.

It's the most radioactive waste that you will get in general society.  I-131 has a half life of 8 days. It's a beta and gamma emitter.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 28th, 2016 at 8:02pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:48pm:
Uranium glass?


I have some of that. It's very nice. I can't get any reading on my survey meter from it.  It's also called depression glass.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:12pm
In the 1950s companies were promoting radioactive toothpaste - laced with a nice dose of Thorium.

In the 1930s Tho-Radia made a whole product line of perfumes, creams, facial powders, lipsticks that contained thorium-chloride and radium.

The Germans in the 1930s manufactured a radioactive chocolate bar called Radium Shokolade. There were even radioactive cigaretts and radioactive woolen garments.

And my favorite - Nutex Radium Condoms

And of course the ladies that were painting the marks on the clocks and watches so that they glowed in the dark. The ladies often used their tongues and lips to make a very pointy tip on their brushes - many died of various cancers - The Radium Girls

:D

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:32pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:38pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:03pm:
who measures in Bq


well Bq, like Sieverts and Grays is SI units

or do you prefer Roentgens?

Congratulations by the way on contributing to this very important thread theme.

Well done mate



No dramas. My point is measuring something in counts per second or minute tells you dick because as your distance from a source increases the count drops (inverse square law). Plus it tells you nothing of the biological significance of this result.

Out of interest Chimp logic, whats your background in working with radiation.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:34pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:12pm:
In the 1950s companies were promoting radioactive toothpaste - laced with a nice dose of Thorium.

In the 1930s Tho-Radia made a whole product line of perfumes, creams, facial powders, lipsticks that contained thorium-chloride and radium.

The Germans in the 1930s manufactured a radioactive chocolate bar called Radium Shokolade. There were even radioactive cigaretts and radioactive woolen garments.

And my favorite - Nutex Radium Condoms

And of course the ladies that were painting the marks on the clocks and watches so that they glowed in the dark. The ladies often used their tongues and lips to make a very pointy tip on their brushes - many died of various cancers - The Radium Girls

:D



The thorium toothpaste was in the 20s

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:44pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:41pm:
100,000CPM is high. That's a contact count rate of course. If you measure the count rate 5 cm away, it would be close to background if it's due to alpha particles.
I'm not sure if I'd want an alpha emitter that hot in my house. If its registering 100,000 CPS through the varnish, it must be picking up some other impurity.

The most radioactive sample I have is around 10,000 CPM.  You can pick similar samples off the road side near a certain disused Uranium mine if you know what you're looking for.

Of course Brazil nuts are pretty good too if you just want something that will register.



Actually - some objects like bricks can measure well over the normal 40 cpm.
They can be as high as 250 cpm -
so can granite counter tops & crystal glass.
100,000 cpm is ridiculous.

Those Brazil nuts don't look safe to eat.


Don't feed them to your pets. If they eat too much, they will leave little radioactive deposits when you take them outside  ;D

Actually, cats that are treated with radioisotopes excrete quite high activities of radiation. They are treated with a radioactive iodine isotope if they have over active thyroids (a relatively common feline condition).  They usually have to spend about 48 hours at the vet until their poo gets back to acceptable levels.

It's the most radioactive waste that you will get in general society.  I-131 has a half life of 8 days. It's a beta and gamma emitter.




Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:36pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 10:48pm:
I wonder if John knew that Uranium could bind with DNA and cause genetic damage?

There are scientific articles that date back to the 1960s highlighting the direct link between Uranium and damage to the DNA code.

Amazing isnt it John

absolutely amazing



Could you please provide a reference list?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 28th, 2016 at 11:58pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:34pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:12pm:
In the 1950s companies were promoting radioactive toothpaste - laced with a nice dose of Thorium.

In the 1930s Tho-Radia made a whole product line of perfumes, creams, facial powders, lipsticks that contained thorium-chloride and radium.

The Germans in the 1930s manufactured a radioactive chocolate bar called Radium Shokolade. There were even radioactive cigaretts and radioactive woolen garments.

And my favorite - Nutex Radium Condoms

And of course the ladies that were painting the marks on the clocks and watches so that they glowed in the dark. The ladies often used their tongues and lips to make a very pointy tip on their brushes - many died of various cancers - The Radium Girls

:D



The thorium toothpaste was in the 20s


well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 28th, 2016 at 11:59pm
There is ample data and research in the scientific literature that supports the notion that Uranium is chemically genotoxic and mutagenic through the formation of strand breaks in the DNA and covalent Uranium–DNA adducts. Radionuclides such as Sr-90 and Uranium bind to DNA and when they decay cause transmutation ionisation and local electron emission ionisation (Auger, β particle). These localisation and transmutation effects were studied as early as the 1960s. Nobody bothered to introduce these findings into safer work place practices and the use and handling of radionuclides such as Uranium - way too sensitive and too much money to be made.

So the depleted Uranium dumped on Iraq and other places via U-tipped munitions and missiles has serious health consequences - not only for those immediately exposed but for future generations via genetic damage and mutations

Humans are very interesting creatures - very interesting and nuts

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Marla on Feb 29th, 2016 at 4:56am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:03pm:
Doctors in Japan are instructed not to panic their patients by not telling them they are suffering from radiation sickness etc.



Why should they? The fallout - both literally and metaphorically - of Fukushima will not be known for generations to come. Ignorance is not bliss here for even the effects of Chernobyl  remain unknown but the bottom line is no one can really tell.

Up the street from me sits Rocky Flats where over 70,000 plutonium triggers were manufactured and even though it has been shut down who knows how much tailings of plutonium remain in the soil and the health effects that it may or may not produce.

That's what's scary about nuclear energy if not the industry itself. Even if isotope decay of plutonium is some 24,000 years that's quite a margin to estimate how much health devastation on a populace it may bring.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 8:20am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 11:59pm:
There is ample data and research in the scientific literature that supports the notion that Uranium is chemically genotoxic and mutagenic through the formation of strand breaks in the DNA and covalent Uranium–DNA adducts. Radionuclides such as Sr-90 and Uranium bind to DNA and when they decay cause transmutation ionisation and local electron emission ionisation (Auger, β particle). These localisation and transmutation effects were studied as early as the 1960s. Nobody bothered to introduce these findings into safer work place practices and the use and handling of radionuclides such as Uranium - way too sensitive and too much money to be made.

So the depleted Uranium dumped on Iraq and other places via U-tipped munitions and missiles has serious health consequences - not only for those immediately exposed but for future generations via genetic damage and mutations

Humans are very interesting creatures - very interesting and nuts


SO could you provide at least one of these studies?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am

Marla wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 4:56am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:03pm:
Doctors in Japan are instructed not to panic their patients by not telling them they are suffering from radiation sickness etc.



Why should they? The fallout - both literally and metaphorically - of Fukushima will not be known for generations to come. Ignorance is not bliss here for even the effects of Chernobyl  remain unknown but the bottom line is no one can really tell.


There are plenty of published articles on the Chernobyl fallout. A good start would be the review report published recently by the NY Academy of Sciences. It sieved through over 5,000 scientific reports and articles carried out in the then Soviet Union and other nations. (especially the nations most affected by Chernobyl fallout and rain-out in Europe like Finland, Sweden, Turkey etc)

There are documented cases of heart disease in children known as Chernobyl heart which has been directly linked to Cesium exposure (Cs is a very active muscle seeker when it enters the human body)

Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.

After all the report estimates that there has been over 980,000  additional deaths attributed directly to the Chernobyl disaster and fallout.

http://www.nyas.org/Publications/Annals/Detail.aspx?cid=f3f3bd16-51ba-4d7b-a086-753f44b3bfc1

(there is a very good reason why people living in the Northern Hemisphere have twice the chance of getting cancer than the populations living in the Southern hemisphere. The Northern hemisphere is the location of the bulk of the nuclear surface testing, nuclear power stations, waste dumps and U/Pu enrichment facilities. The background radiation levels are twice as high in the Northern hemisphere. One can estimate the additional deaths/cancers per additional mSv exposure over time)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:59am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:32pm:
No dramas. My point is measuring something in counts per second or minute tells you dick because as your distance from a source increases the count drops (inverse square law). Plus it tells you nothing of the biological significance of this result.

Out of interest Chimp logic, whats your background in working with radiation.


Good. It sounds like you might have working knowledge with radiation. Chimp seems to be latching on to interwebz reports indiscriminately. His BS meter is not functioning on this subject.

I'll leave you to discuss this with chimp. I'm just going to bite my tongue for a while.

When it comes to radiation, the headless chook effect often prevails, and I really don't want to get caught up in that nonsense.



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:01am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:59am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:32pm:
No dramas. My point is measuring something in counts per second or minute tells you dick because as your distance from a source increases the count drops (inverse square law). Plus it tells you nothing of the biological significance of this result.

Out of interest Chimp logic, whats your background in working with radiation.


Good. It sounds like you might have working knowledge with radiation. Chimp seems to be latching on to interwebz reports indiscriminately. His BS meter is not functioning on this subject.

I'll leave you to discuss this with chimp. I'm just going to bite my tongue for a while.

When it comes to radiation, the headless chook effect often prevails, and I really don't want to get caught up in that nonsense.




ARPANSA trained, worked at Lucas Heights in materials science and radiochemistry for nearly 5 years.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:07am
The main issue with determining radiation exposure health risk is dealing with internal exposure. The main Risk models used are conveniently based on external radiation exposure applied to a healthy 26 year old male weighing about 70kg.


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:08am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:01am:
ARPANSA trained, worked at Lucas Heights in materials science and radiochemistry for nearly 5 years.


Good. I was a radiation safety officer for industrial radiography for 25 years. I still hold the qualification of RSO, but just for Industrial Gauges these days. I won't be updating it.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:08am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Probably not much, I'd get more from my food.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:14am
by the way, to put the 50000 Bq/kg in some sort of context. Because of the food we eat and air we breathe we constantly have an amount of potassium 40 in our bodies throughout our lifetime. We get about 5000 Bq on a continuous basis from the K-40 through our lives.

Or in another way compare it to the curie. The curie is based on the number of disintegrations in 1 gram of radium-226.

1 curie is 37000000000 Bq. Or 740,000 times more than what these monkeys had. The Hiroshima explosion had 8000000000000000000000000 Bq. Or about 13000000000000000000 times more than the monkeys.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course - just like one takes the official death of Chernobyl to be 47, the fire fighters and staff that died on the night of explosion.

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:25am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.


single strand breaks in DNA can be repaired but the more you have the more chance of repair errors.

Perhaps you can describe the mechanism by which double strand breaks are repaired?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:32am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.


single strand breaks in DNA can be repaired but the more you have the more chance of repair errors.

Perhaps you can describe the mechanism by which double strand breaks are repaired?


Yes there are three mechanisms. Non homologous end join whereby short DNA sequences are used to guide repair, microhomology-mediated end joining (error prone and only used when the other 2 aren't suitable) and homologous recombination (similar to the process in meiosis) where the affected part of the DNA is replaced with normal copy from another chromosome.


ANy other queries?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:35am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:32am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.


single strand breaks in DNA can be repaired but the more you have the more chance of repair errors.

Perhaps you can describe the mechanism by which double strand breaks are repaired?


Yes there are three mechanisms. Non homologous end join whereby short DNA sequences are used to guide repair, microhomology-mediated end joining (error prone and only used when the other 2 aren't suitable) and homologous recombination (similar to the process in meiosis) where the affected part of the DNA is replaced with normal copy from another chromosome.


ANy other queries?


And you worked in the Nuclear industry and are not aware that there are radionuclides or their second event daughter products that directly bind to DNA?

interesting....lunch time folks

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:32am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.


single strand breaks in DNA can be repaired but the more you have the more chance of repair errors.

Perhaps you can describe the mechanism by which double strand breaks are repaired?


Yes there are three mechanisms. Non homologous end join whereby short DNA sequences are used to guide repair, microhomology-mediated end joining (error prone and only used when the other 2 aren't suitable) and homologous recombination (similar to the process in meiosis) where the affected part of the DNA is replaced with normal copy from another chromosome.


ANy other queries?


And you worked in the Nuclear industry and are not aware that there are radionuclides or their second event daughter products that directly bind to DNA?

interesting....



And yet you seem blissfully unaware that our cells have for millions of years the mechanisms to adapt to such damage?

interesting, or blissfully ignorant and delusional.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:32am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.


single strand breaks in DNA can be repaired but the more you have the more chance of repair errors.

Perhaps you can describe the mechanism by which double strand breaks are repaired?


Yes there are three mechanisms. Non homologous end join whereby short DNA sequences are used to guide repair, microhomology-mediated end joining (error prone and only used when the other 2 aren't suitable) and homologous recombination (similar to the process in meiosis) where the affected part of the DNA is replaced with normal copy from another chromosome.


ANy other queries?


And you worked in the Nuclear industry and are not aware that there are radionuclides or their second event daughter products that directly bind to DNA?

interesting....lunch time folks



Be careful, you're ingesting radioactive chemicals.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:07am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:
of course - just like one takes the official death of Chernobyl to be 47, the fire fighters and staff that died on the night of explosion.

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....


Chimp, You are desperately trying to draw me in to this discussion.

All I'm saying is that there is a lot of contaminated information out there. (from both sides). The nuclear industry tends to understate, and the anti-nuclear industry tend to over-inflate.  You need to apply some discretion and not just cut and paste anything that you see on the web.


Quote:
interesting....lunch time folks


Have a pinch of salt.

My last word on this subject.


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:00pm
There is a huge difference between eating a few Bananas and receiving a mild hit of K40, which is incidentally a naturally occurring radioisotope that is in equilibrium in our bodies AND being contaminated with Cs137, Sr90 or a Plutonium isotope etc

its all about adding to one's cumulative radiation exposure risk profile



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:04pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:07am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:
of course - just like one takes the official death of Chernobyl to be 47, the fire fighters and staff that died on the night of explosion.

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....


Chimp, You are desperately trying to draw me in to this discussion.

All I'm saying is that there is a lot of contaminated information out there. (from both sides). The nuclear industry tends to understate, and the anti-nuclear industry tend to over-inflate.  You need to apply some discretion and not just cut and paste anything that you see on the web.


Quote:
interesting....lunch time folks


Have a pinch of salt.

My last word on this subject.


This thread isnt directed at any particular person on Ozpolitic.

It was an innocuous but important post on a recent finding of Cesium contamination in Monkey turds within the Fuksuhima prefecture.

Iodine salt is good for you - you're right John - especially if you live away from the coastline and/or have an inadequate diet.



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:59pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?


We're talking about feline faeces, cat coprolites.
::)


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 29th, 2016 at 8:33pm

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:59pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?


We're talking about feline faeces, cat coprolites.
::)



I said  " anything radioactive ".

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?



Depends, if its a beta emitter and you slow it down too much you get x rays. So plastic

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by GordyL on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:47pm
A mate of mine said he's going to Japan next week,  to Fukasheila. Is that safe?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:51pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?



Depends, if its a beta emitter and you slow it down too much you get x rays. So plastic



Yep - covered by plastic & then some steel or lead for shielding.

Aluminium is the wrong material.

John should have known that -
being an expert!

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:17pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:51pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?



Depends, if its a beta emitter and you slow it down too much you get x rays. So plastic



Yep - covered by plastic & then some steel or lead for shielding.

Aluminium is the wrong material.

John should have known that -
being an expert!



Its only some beta emitters that this occurs for. Others have no issue with aluminium.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:17pm

GordyL wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
A mate of mine said he's going to Japan next week,  to Fukasheila. Is that safe?



Dont know, does your wife have any diseases?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:34pm
The firefighters who perished at the Chernobyl reactor site on the night of the disaster could not be buried in normal graves at a public cemetery or cremated. They were buried in lead lined and sealed caskets along with their clothes and face masks etc. just outside Moscow. Their carcasses are classified as toxic nuclear waste.

Fukushima should start to clear up in the years 252,000 BC and with respect to Uranium, things should brighten up for the people of Japan by the year 45,000,002,000 BC.


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21am
******BREAKING******

Former TEPCO executives indicted for negligence over the March 2011 Fukushima meltdowns.

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN0W208L

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:05am

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:51pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:35pm:
Beta emitter? Just stick some aluminium foil over your cats litter tray then


Beta and gamma.



Isn't it unwise to put aluminium over anything radioactive since
it causes neutrons to be produced?



Depends, if its a beta emitter and you slow it down too much you get x rays. So plastic



Yep - covered by plastic & then some steel or lead for shielding.

Aluminium is the wrong material.

John should have known that -
being an expert!


Put it this way, the cat would be at the vet, and the level of radiation in the faeces is not going to be high enough to get excited over. I'd suggest the vet would minimise exposure time, wearing a face mask and gloves, and just tip the waste into a lead foil bag supplied by the waste contractor for collection.

I don't know  specifically what vets have to do, but that would seem reasonable.

I already said that I'm not posting any more on this subject.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:07am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:34pm:
Fukushima should start to clear up in the years 252,000 BC and with respect to Uranium, things should brighten up for the people of Japan by the year 45,000,002,000 BC.


So now we're travelling back in time?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:09am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:17pm:

GordyL wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
A mate of mine said he's going to Japan next week,  to Fukasheila. Is that safe?



Dont know, does your wife have any diseases?


Ratbag  ;D

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:14am

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:07am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 11:34pm:
Fukushima should start to clear up in the years 252,000 BC and with respect to Uranium, things should brighten up for the people of Japan by the year 45,000,002,000 BC.


So now we're travelling back in time?


;D well done John.

Of course I meant AD.

Silly me.

Have you found any other critical errors in my assessment of the Fukushima disaster and with my Coombes on radiation exposure risk in general?

Crazy industry the nuclear industry isn't it John? Just like Einstein warned. But what would he know?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:29am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:37am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:32am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:20am:

John_Taverner wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:28am:
Its interesting to note that the NY Academy of Sciences had to withdraw public access to the Chernobyl report due to several years of political lobbying by the Nuclear power and weapons industry. They cant squash the report, but its a lot more difficult to gain access to it in the public realm.


I would delve into that statement a little a lot deeper. Don't take it at face value.

of course

With your experience in Radiation safety, you would know that there are radionuclides (or their daughter products) that bind directly to the DNA and can cause double strand breaks....



With your experience in biology, you'd also know that our cells have repair mechanisms to fix any breaks or destroy any abnormal cells.


single strand breaks in DNA can be repaired but the more you have the more chance of repair errors.

Perhaps you can describe the mechanism by which double strand breaks are repaired?


Yes there are three mechanisms. Non homologous end join whereby short DNA sequences are used to guide repair, microhomology-mediated end joining (error prone and only used when the other 2 aren't suitable) and homologous recombination (similar to the process in meiosis) where the affected part of the DNA is replaced with normal copy from another chromosome.


ANy other queries?


And you worked in the Nuclear industry and are not aware that there are radionuclides or their second event daughter products that directly bind to DNA?

interesting....



And yet you seem blissfully unaware that our cells have for millions of years the mechanisms to adapt to such damage?

interesting, or blissfully ignorant and delusional.


And what experience does life have with synthetic long lived radionuclides such as Pu ?

Have you opened up your smoke detector lately? Where did that Americium 241 isotope come from?

The nuclear industry is morally and even economically indefensible. Only the ones with their snouts in the Yellow cake trough try to defend it.

It's not possible to obtain public liability insurance for nuclear power stations anywhere in the world today. Who pays when there is a meltdown?

How much will the Fukushima meltdown cost to remediate? Is it even possible to clean the mess up?

You need to talk to a few Cattle farm owners in England about why their animal stock needs to be tested for Chernobyl fallout isotopes such as Cesium before being sold on the market.

These English farmers were told that their farms and produce would be quarranteened for a month or two after the Chernobyl meltdown and fallout. They are still classified as contaminated and the bulk of their animals and plant produce fail cesium limit tests even today. The farmers move their cattle etc to clean pastures for 6 or more months so that they can lower their contamination levels per kg. They then can sell to the market.

Good luck with your burger

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:41am
Thanks. PLease continue with science, one day you may understand it.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 8:52am
How on earth can I possibly recover from that counter argument?

I am certainly up against the ropes now ladies and gentlemen. It's going to be very difficult for me to bounce back from that clever and well crafted retort.

Well done Kojack. Well done mate.

Congratulations on everything you have done for TEPCO and the IAEA and of course those NR bodies all over the world.

Well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:12am
Thank you very much, quite easy to do when you've posted zero science content and instead gone with did you know in the 50s that



Did you know in the 50s that people drank faeces? I don't need to produce any actual references, I just need to state that in the 50s thats what they did.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:44am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:12am:
Thank you very much, quite easy to do when you've posted zero science content and instead gone with did you know in the 50s that



Did you know in the 50s that people drank faeces? I don't need to produce any actual references, I just need to state that in the 50s thats what they did.


Why do you detest and ignore the direct effects on health and DNA damage of internal radiation exposure?

Do you think that Australia should become the world's nuclear garbage dump site for the worlds toxic nuclear waste? We all know what the Sth Australian Royal Commission into nuclear issues has recently said on this matter, as well as the Great Premier of Sth Australia.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:53am
ARPANSA Lunacy

lets examine the lunacy in the limited Australian Nuclear safety sector. The ARPANSA gang have very interesting advise on how to dispose of small amounts of Am241 - an alpha emitter with a half life of over 400 years. Apparently people should only be concerned if 10 or more detectors need to be disposed of at once. Disposing of less than 10 detectors apparently entails NO RISK AT ALL.  :D

Safe disposal of smoke detectors

Individual (or small numbers of) smoke alarms can be safely disposed of in domestic rubbish. The amount of radioactive material in each smoke alarm is extremely small. From environmental and public health perspectives, the disposal of individual smoke alarms with domestic rubbish does not represent any risk.

When more than ten smoke alarms (or more particularly, the Americium-241 sources) are collected together for bulk disposal, they must be treated as radioactive waste, and the requirements of the National Health and Medical Research Council's Code of Practice for the Near-Surface Disposal of Radioactive Waste in Australia (1992) must be met. Contact your state or territory radiation control authority for advice.


http://www.arpansa.gov.au/radiationprotection/factsheets/is_smokedetector.cfm

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:08am
Mind that blood pressure, Chimp.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:23am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:44am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:12am:
Thank you very much, quite easy to do when you've posted zero science content and instead gone with did you know in the 50s that



Did you know in the 50s that people drank faeces? I don't need to produce any actual references, I just need to state that in the 50s thats what they did.


Why do you detest and ignore the direct effects on health and DNA damage of internal radiation exposure?

Do you think that Australia should become the world's nuclear garbage dump site for the worlds toxic nuclear waste? We all know what the Sth Australian Royal Commission into nuclear issues has recently said on this matter, as well as the Great Premier of Sth Australia.



Yes. SA has excellent geology for such a feature.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:24am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:44am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:12am:
Thank you very much, quite easy to do when you've posted zero science content and instead gone with did you know in the 50s that



Did you know in the 50s that people drank faeces? I don't need to produce any actual references, I just need to state that in the 50s thats what they did.


Why do you detest and ignore the direct effects on health and DNA damage of internal radiation exposure?




I'm more worried about the mental illness of pseudoscidence.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:26am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:53am:
ARPANSA Lunacy

lets examine the lunacy in the limited Australian Nuclear safety sector. The ARPANSA gang have very interesting advise on how to dispose of small amounts of Am241 - an alpha emitter with a half life of over 400 years. Apparently people should only be concerned if 10 or more detectors need to be disposed of at once. Disposing of less than 10 detectors apparently entails NO RISK AT ALL.  :D

Safe disposal of smoke detectors

Individual (or small numbers of) smoke alarms can be safely disposed of in domestic rubbish. The amount of radioactive material in each smoke alarm is extremely small. From environmental and public health perspectives, the disposal of individual smoke alarms with domestic rubbish does not represent any risk.

When more than ten smoke alarms (or more particularly, the Americium-241 sources) are collected together for bulk disposal, they must be treated as radioactive waste, and the requirements of the National Health and Medical Research Council's Code of Practice for the Near-Surface Disposal of Radioactive Waste in Australia (1992) must be met. Contact your state or territory radiation control authority for advice.


http://www.arpansa.gov.au/radiationprotection/factsheets/is_smokedetector.cfm



Dont worry Chimp dont ingest or inhale your smoke detector you should be fine.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:43am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:26am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:53am:
ARPANSA Lunacy

lets examine the lunacy in the limited Australian Nuclear safety sector. The ARPANSA gang have very interesting advise on how to dispose of small amounts of Am241 - an alpha emitter with a half life of over 400 years. Apparently people should only be concerned if 10 or more detectors need to be disposed of at once. Disposing of less than 10 detectors apparently entails NO RISK AT ALL.  :D

Safe disposal of smoke detectors

Individual (or small numbers of) smoke alarms can be safely disposed of in domestic rubbish. The amount of radioactive material in each smoke alarm is extremely small. From environmental and public health perspectives, the disposal of individual smoke alarms with domestic rubbish does not represent any risk.

When more than ten smoke alarms (or more particularly, the Americium-241 sources) are collected together for bulk disposal, they must be treated as radioactive waste, and the requirements of the National Health and Medical Research Council's Code of Practice for the Near-Surface Disposal of Radioactive Waste in Australia (1992) must be met. Contact your state or territory radiation control authority for advice.


http://www.arpansa.gov.au/radiationprotection/factsheets/is_smokedetector.cfm



Dont worry Chimp dont ingest or inhale your smoke detector you should be fine.


so according to ARPANSA, disposing of 10 or more smoke detectors at one time, becomes a legal and medical nuclear waste issue to be dealt by authorities.

And yet communities around Australia can dump thousands of smoke detectors collectively into the local municipal rubbish dump.

I am sure that the supremely sealed containers of Am241 will survive 10 to 20 half lifes - what's a mere 4,320 to 8,640 years?

there should not be any leakage into the immediate ground water OR any bio-accumulation in the ecosystem.

Flojack guarantees this for up to 8,000 years

Well done mate.

There are almost 10 million homes in Australia and perhaps even more commercial buildings etc. Although the Am241 content in each smoke detector is small (~0.0002 grams), the cumulative effect of disposal needs to be taken into consideration.

Good luck - humans know everything and know exactly what they are doing - especially if corporate and Banking profits are involved

Well done everybody - well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by lee on Mar 1st, 2016 at 11:00am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:43am:
And yet communities around Australia can dump thousands of smoke detectors collectively into the local municipal rubbish dump.

I am sure that the supremely sealed containers of Am241 will survive 10 to 20 half lifes - what's a mere 4,320 to 8,640 years?



Chimp, Harvest it and sell it on the black. You could be onto something. (or is that on something?) :-?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 11:10am
yes lee - I will take on board your suggestion and examine it at the next formal meeting.

well done - you're always thinking outside the box - well done

Commercial exploitation may well be the way to go.

Perhaps an Americium-241 tax and cap and trade system implemented on a global scale.

have you always been this brilliant or do you need to work hard on it?

I am just amazed - absolutely amazed at your supreme gifts

well done mate

well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 12:26pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:43am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 10:26am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:53am:
ARPANSA Lunacy

lets examine the lunacy in the limited Australian Nuclear safety sector. The ARPANSA gang have very interesting advise on how to dispose of small amounts of Am241 - an alpha emitter with a half life of over 400 years. Apparently people should only be concerned if 10 or more detectors need to be disposed of at once. Disposing of less than 10 detectors apparently entails NO RISK AT ALL.  :D

Safe disposal of smoke detectors

Individual (or small numbers of) smoke alarms can be safely disposed of in domestic rubbish. The amount of radioactive material in each smoke alarm is extremely small. From environmental and public health perspectives, the disposal of individual smoke alarms with domestic rubbish does not represent any risk.

When more than ten smoke alarms (or more particularly, the Americium-241 sources) are collected together for bulk disposal, they must be treated as radioactive waste, and the requirements of the National Health and Medical Research Council's Code of Practice for the Near-Surface Disposal of Radioactive Waste in Australia (1992) must be met. Contact your state or territory radiation control authority for advice.


http://www.arpansa.gov.au/radiationprotection/factsheets/is_smokedetector.cfm



Dont worry Chimp dont ingest or inhale your smoke detector you should be fine.


so according to ARPANSA, disposing of 10 or more smoke detectors at one time, becomes a legal and medical nuclear waste issue to be dealt by authorities.

And yet communities around Australia can dump thousands of smoke detectors collectively into the local municipal rubbish dump.

I am sure that the supremely sealed containers of Am241 will survive 10 to 20 half lifes - what's a mere 4,320 to 8,640 years?

there should not be any leakage into the immediate ground water OR any bio-accumulation in the ecosystem.

Flojack guarantees this for up to 8,000 years

Well done mate.

There are almost 10 million homes in Australia and perhaps even more commercial buildings etc. Although the Am241 content in each smoke detector is small (~0.0002 grams), the cumulative effect of disposal needs to be taken into consideration.

Good luck - humans know everything and know exactly what they are doing - especially if corporate and Banking profits are involved

Well done everybody - well done



Yep, synroc.


And the banking and corporate references. Wheres the alfoil hat?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21pm
synroc  ;D

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:24pm
Why is thousands of Am241 laced smoke detectors dumped in the local rubbish tip SAFE prudent disposal policy, but if one has 10 faulty smoke detectors that one wishes to dispose of, then the toxic nuclear waste disposal legislation is activated and authorities must be called in from around Australia to handle this Health and Safety issue?

Kojack with his chopa chop remains silent

well done Gojack - well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 1st, 2016 at 4:47pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:24pm:
Why is thousands of Am241 laced smoke detectors dumped in the local rubbish tip SAFE prudent disposal policy, but if one has 10 faulty smoke detectors that one wishes to dispose of, then the toxic nuclear waste disposal legislation is activated and authorities must be called in from around Australia to handle this Health and Safety issue?

Kojack with his chopa chop remains silent

well done Gojack - well done mate



Am241 is dangerous when outside the smoke detector.

It's crazy to fill rubbish dumps with such toxic waste.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:10pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21pm:
synroc  ;D




Yes synroc, ceramics, gloasses you know science

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:15pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21pm:
synroc  ;D




Yes synroc, ceramics, gloasses you know science


Why did it take 2 years before they could examine the partial meltdown in the reactor core at Three Mile Island and then a further 20 years to remove the damaged core?

How much of the 100+ tons of reactor core did they convert into synroc?

Was there any Am241 in the melted mess?

Gee, I wonder where the coriums are at the Fukushima Daichi disaster site? Do you know when the synroc experts will arrive Kojack?

;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:19pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:15pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21pm:
synroc  ;D




Yes synroc, ceramics, gloasses you know science


Why did it take 2 years before they could examine the partial meltdown in the reactor core at Three Mile Island and then a further 20 years to remove the damaged core?

How much of the 100+ tons of reactor core did they convert into synroc?

Was there any Am241 in the melted mess?

Gee, I wonder where the coriums are at the Fukushima Daichi disaster site? Do you know when the synroc experts will arrive Kojack?

;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D



We were talking about disposal of americium from smoke detectors. Stop moving the goal,s.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:01am
Well done Chimp,

I'd call that your Ajax post. You should get all the emotive bits together and make it into a laminated poster, which you can pull out every time you get tired of thinking for yourself.  You're certainly pulling out all the propaganda you can find regardless of relevance or truth. What happened to those standards you apply ruthlessly against fossil fuel shills?

I can see a certain resemblance to Donald Trump.  Very populist, but in the end, "you run out of m0rons". 

I just wanted to say well done, Chimp. Well done mate.  ;)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:24am

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:01am:
Well done Chimp,

I'd call that your Ajax post. You should get all the emotive bits together and make it into a laminated poster, which you can pull out every time you get tired of thinking for yourself.  You're certainly pulling out all the propaganda you can find regardless of relevance or truth. What happened to those standards you apply ruthlessly against fossil fuel shills?

I can see a certain resemblance to Donald Trump.  Very populist, but in the end, "you run out of m0rons". 

I just wanted to say well done, Chimp. Well done mate.  ;)


thanks mate - and by the way - a very big well done to you John - Congratulations on the moderation and hard work you have put into Ozpolitic - everybody in here is very proud of you mate so well done

Why were there radionuclides from the Fukushima fallout detected in Greece John - in Northern Greece mate.

Radioiodine and radiocesium in Thessaloniki, Northern Greece due to the Fukushima nuclear accident
M. Manolopoulou, E. Vagena, S. Stoulos, A. Ioannidou, C. Papastefanou

Journal of Environmental Radioactivity
Volume 102, Issue 8, August 2011, Pages 796–797

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0265931X11000828

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:32am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:19pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:15pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21pm:
synroc  ;D




Yes synroc, ceramics, gloasses you know science


Why did it take 2 years before they could examine the partial meltdown in the reactor core at Three Mile Island and then a further 20 years to remove the damaged core?

How much of the 100+ tons of reactor core did they convert into synroc?

Was there any Am241 in the melted mess?

Gee, I wonder where the coriums are at the Fukushima Daichi disaster site? Do you know when the synroc experts will arrive Kojack?

;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D



We were talking about disposal of americium from smoke detectors. Stop moving the goal,s.


Poor Kojack, he doesnt like goal posts being moved.

Well perhaps Dojack will enjoy this article - seeing as glass containing readioactive isotopes is near to his heart. It appears that some sort of glass like substrate has entrapped radionuclides such as Cesium from the post melt down mess at Fukushima and the explosion ejected these fine particles into the ecosystem and also for some people to breath in. Well Done TEPCO

Emission of spherical cesium-bearing particles from an early stage of the Fukushima nuclear accident

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep02554?message-global=remove&WT.ec_id=SREP-704-20131001

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:44am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:24am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:01am:
Well done Chimp,

I'd call that your Ajax post. You should get all the emotive bits together and make it into a laminated poster, which you can pull out every time you get tired of thinking for yourself.  You're certainly pulling out all the propaganda you can find regardless of relevance or truth. What happened to those standards you apply ruthlessly against fossil fuel shills?

I can see a certain resemblance to Donald Trump.  Very populist, but in the end, "you run out of m0rons". 

I just wanted to say well done, Chimp. Well done mate.  ;)


thanks mate - and by the way - a very big well done to you John - Congratulations on the moderation and hard work you have put into Ozpolitic - everybody in here is very proud of you mate so well done

Why were there radionuclides from the Fukushima fallout detected in Greece John - in Northern Greece mate.

Radioiodine and radiocesium in Thessaloniki, Northern Greece due to the Fukushima nuclear accident
M. Manolopoulou, E. Vagena, S. Stoulos, A. Ioannidou, C. Papastefanou

Journal of Environmental Radioactivity
Volume 102, Issue 8, August 2011, Pages 796–797

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0265931X11000828



You forgot to post the last paragrpah from that article big fella

In conclusion, there is no problem for the Greek population and no preventive measures are needed to be provided against the nuclear accident according to the Greek Atomic Energy Commission (GAEC) Bulletin No.11 of 26 March 2011 (GAEC, 2011), the official agent of the Greek Government.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:47am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:32am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:19pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:15pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 9:10pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:21pm:
synroc  ;D




Yes synroc, ceramics, gloasses you know science


Why did it take 2 years before they could examine the partial meltdown in the reactor core at Three Mile Island and then a further 20 years to remove the damaged core?

How much of the 100+ tons of reactor core did they convert into synroc?

Was there any Am241 in the melted mess?

Gee, I wonder where the coriums are at the Fukushima Daichi disaster site? Do you know when the synroc experts will arrive Kojack?

;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D



We were talking about disposal of americium from smoke detectors. Stop moving the goal,s.


Poor Kojack, he doesnt like goal posts being moved.

Well perhaps Dojack will enjoy this article - seeing as glass containing readioactive isotopes is near to his heart. It appears that some sort of glass like substrate has entrapped radionuclides such as Cesium from the post melt down mess at Fukushima and the explosion ejected these fine particles into the ecosystem and also for some people to breath in. Well Done TEPCO

Emission of spherical cesium-bearing particles from an early stage of the Fukushima nuclear accident

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep02554?message-global=remove&WT.ec_id=SREP-704-20131001




This one claims further study needed.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:58am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 4:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:24pm:
Why is thousands of Am241 laced smoke detectors dumped in the local rubbish tip SAFE prudent disposal policy, but if one has 10 faulty smoke detectors that one wishes to dispose of, then the toxic nuclear waste disposal legislation is activated and authorities must be called in from around Australia to handle this Health and Safety issue?

Kojack with his chopa chop remains silent

well done Gojack - well done mate



Am241 is dangerous when outside the smoke detector.

It's crazy to fill rubbish dumps with such toxic waste.


Very low risk. Each smoke detector contains less than 1 micro Curie (μCi or uCi if you're lazy).

See these minerals?

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/uraninite

About 1 gram of uraninite gives you about 4 uCi (3FMT). You can legally send all these samples through the post.

Worried? Why not buy a Geiger counter for your smartphone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Smart-Geiger-Nuclear-Radiation-Detector-Counter-Test-for-iPhone-Android-Phone-/252029708129?hash=item3aae242761:g:qsAAAOSwjVVVwPjp

LOL - you get what you pay for.

* See if you can guess what FMT stands for. It's a new unit of activity.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:38pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 4:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:24pm:
Why is thousands of Am241 laced smoke detectors dumped in the local rubbish tip SAFE prudent disposal policy, but if one has 10 faulty smoke detectors that one wishes to dispose of, then the toxic nuclear waste disposal legislation is activated and authorities must be called in from around Australia to handle this Health and Safety issue?

Kojack with his chopa chop remains silent

well done Gojack - well done mate



Am241 is dangerous when outside the smoke detector.

It's crazy to fill rubbish dumps with such toxic waste.


Well done Mr Sir Bobby

Remember smoke detectors containing Am241 are not dangerous or considered nuclear waste, if a citizen throws 9 or less smoke detectors in his/her rubbish bin at one time.

But, Mr Sir Bobby, if that citizen has 10 smoke detectors or more to dispose of, then we have a national nuclear waste disposal issue that requires the regulatory bodies to enter the premises with suits and masks and special trucks etc.

Well done Mr Sir Bobby

As a slave you have done very well indeed mate

Congratulations

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:46pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:58am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 4:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:24pm:
Why is thousands of Am241 laced smoke detectors dumped in the local rubbish tip SAFE prudent disposal policy, but if one has 10 faulty smoke detectors that one wishes to dispose of, then the toxic nuclear waste disposal legislation is activated and authorities must be called in from around Australia to handle this Health and Safety issue?

Kojack with his chopa chop remains silent

well done Gojack - well done mate



Am241 is dangerous when outside the smoke detector.

It's crazy to fill rubbish dumps with such toxic waste.


Very low risk. Each smoke detector contains less than 1 micro Curie (μCi or uCi if you're lazy).

See these minerals?

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/uraninite

About 1 gram of uraninite gives you about 4 uCi (3FMT). You can legally send all these samples through the post.

Worried? Why not buy a Geiger counter for your smartphone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Smart-Geiger-Nuclear-Radiation-Detector-Counter-Test-for-iPhone-Android-Phone-/252029708129?hash=item3aae242761:g:qsAAAOSwjVVVwPjp

LOL - you get what you pay for.

* See if you can guess what FMT stands for. It's a new unit of activity.


Yes John, the amount of Am241 is small - about 0.0002 grams per smoke detector.

And yes john, Am241 is an alpha emitter which is relatively safe when outside of the body, and its alpha particles struggling to penetrate the outer layers of skin.

The issue however John, is the possibility of Am241 entering the body via inhalation, absorption or ingestion.

We wouldnt want any Am241 leaching into the ground water at rubbish tips John now would we.

And we certainly dont want bio-accumulation of Am241 in the food chain - and there is plenty of time for that isnt there John, with Am241 possessing a rather lengthy half life of ~450 years.

Can you provide a guarantee that the water, air and food chain will remain safe for 40 odd centuries?

We wouldnt want anything to happen now would we John

well done on responding though John. It takes great courage to defend the nuclear industry

well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:52pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:24am:
Why were there radionuclides from the Fukushima fallout detected in Greece John - in Northern Greece mate.


The highest figure there is 0.7 Bq L−1.  What proportion of background radiation would that be Chimp?

I'll give you multiple choice or phone a friend if you like, but I'll let you have a stab at it first so that you can get into the habit of thinking for yourself.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:56pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:52pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:24am:
Why were there radionuclides from the Fukushima fallout detected in Greece John - in Northern Greece mate.


The highest figure there is 0.7 Bq L−1.  What proportion of background radiation would that be Chimp?

I'll give you multiple choice or phone a friend if you like, but I'll let you have a stab at it first so that you can get into the habit of thinking for yourself.



0.7Bq/L? Can I answer that? Its less radioactivity than you would get from a litre of seawater?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:09pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:46pm:
Yes John, the amount of Am241 is small - about 0.0002 grams per smoke detector.


Well done.  That's correct. Now what form is is in?


Quote:
well done on responding though John. It takes great courage to defend the nuclear industry

well done mate


LOL you great ape. I'm not defending the nuclear industry.  I'm defending the integrity of knowledge.

I already said that there are far better choices for Australia than nuclear.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:32pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:09pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:46pm:
Yes John, the amount of Am241 is small - about 0.0002 grams per smoke detector.


Well done.  That's correct. Now what form is is in?


Quote:
well done on responding though John. It takes great courage to defend the nuclear industry

well done mate


LOL you great ape. I'm not defending the nuclear industry.  I'm defending the integrity of knowledge.

I already said that there are far better choices for Australia than nuclear.


And yet you dismiss the long term nuclear catastrophe in Japan, even though you are aware of the health hazards and risks of internal radiation exposure.

You are definitely bordering on the edge of having to render a public written apology, even though you have done very well in misleading the good folk of Ozpolitic on this very critical issue

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:35pm
;DJohnjack :D

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:44pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:35pm:
;DJohnjack :D


What did I do? I have a feeling I might have clicked modify instead of quote somewhere.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:50pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 4:32pm:
1. And yet you dismiss the long term nuclear catastrophe in Japan, even though you are aware of the health hazards and risks of internal radiation exposure.

2. You are definitely bordering on the edge of having to render a public written apology, even though you have done very well in misleading the good folk of Ozpolitic on this very critical issue


1. I don't think I did. 

2. You definitely owe an apology for actually believing Gundersen, and then quoting him.

You see refuting what Gundersen says is like walking a minefield.

I have no wish to be an apologist for the operating company of Fukushima, but when I see grossly misleading and panic-inducing hysteria from Gundersen , I feel that I need to set the record straight.

By the way

Quote:
* See if you can guess what FMT stands for. It's a new unit of activity.


One  Fukushima Monkey Turd (FMT) is equivalent to 1.3uCi, or slightly more than a domestic smoke detector.


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 6:03pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:58am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 4:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 1st, 2016 at 1:24pm:
Why is thousands of Am241 laced smoke detectors dumped in the local rubbish tip SAFE prudent disposal policy, but if one has 10 faulty smoke detectors that one wishes to dispose of, then the toxic nuclear waste disposal legislation is activated and authorities must be called in from around Australia to handle this Health and Safety issue?

Kojack with his chopa chop remains silent

well done Gojack - well done mate



Am241 is dangerous when outside the smoke detector.

It's crazy to fill rubbish dumps with such toxic waste.


Very low risk. Each smoke detector contains less than 1 micro Curie (μCi or uCi if you're lazy).

See these minerals?

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/uraninite

About 1 gram of uraninite gives you about 4 uCi (3FMT). You can legally send all these samples through the post.

Worried? Why not buy a Geiger counter for your smartphone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Smart-Geiger-Nuclear-Radiation-Detector-Counter-Test-for-iPhone-Android-Phone-/252029708129?hash=item3aae242761:g:qsAAAOSwjVVVwPjp

LOL - you get what you pay for.

* See if you can guess what FMT stands for. It's a new unit of activity.


" You can legally send all these samples through the post.  "

Can you please show me any law which says that it's OK to receive those rocks in the post?


This one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uraninite-2205-/172105884312
has 90,000 cpm - that's a lot!

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 7:04pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 3:52pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:24am:
Why were there radionuclides from the Fukushima fallout detected in Greece John - in Northern Greece mate.


The highest figure there is 0.7 Bq L−1.  What proportion of background radiation would that be Chimp?

I'll give you multiple choice or phone a friend if you like, but I'll let you have a stab at it first so that you can get into the habit of thinking for yourself.


And what happens when radionuclides bio-accumulate up the food chain John?

Why are there English farm lands quarantined in 2016 from Chenobyl fallout that occurred 30 years ago?

Why does the flesh and milk in the cattle contain higher levels of Cesium than the pasture John?

So high in fact, that the farmers are not legally permitted to sell their cattle in the Eurozone. They need to transport their cattle to clean pasture or feed them pelletised feed for at least 6 months before the Cs levels drop below acceptable health levels.

In Germany a high percentage of the wild bore hunted also breach the maximum radionuclide health limits. Apparently wind boars like digging up roots and truffles from the forest floor and gorging themselves on these delights.

You have a lot of explaining to do John

Well done on trying to soften the blow of the vast environmental damage that the nuclear power, waste and weapons sectors are responsible

Well done John

Well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 7:17pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:01am:
Well done Chimp,

I'd call that your Ajax post. You should get all the emotive bits together and make it into a laminated poster, which you can pull out every time you get tired of thinking for yourself.  You're certainly pulling out all the propaganda you can find regardless of relevance or truth. What happened to those standards you apply ruthlessly against fossil fuel shills?

I can see a certain resemblance to Donald Trump.  Very populist, but in the end, "you run out of m0rons". 

I just wanted to say well done, Chimp. Well done mate.  ;)

Groupthink implies that you never run out of morons: doesn't it?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by lee on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 7:48pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 7:04pm:
Why are there English farm lands quarantined in 2016 from Chenobyl fallout that occurred 30 years ago?



Is it the same reason rivers and drains can't be cleared unless the spoil is treated as hazardous waste? Silting of the rivers is a big problem in the UK.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 8:20pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 7:04pm:
You have a lot of explaining to do John


No. I don't think I do.  I don't have a pro-nuclear agenda as I said. I was just asking you to provide context by way of background levels. 

You, on the other hand have an obvious agenda.

Instead of doing that, you launched into an Ajax like tirade
of miscellaneous unrelated points that you have gleaned from some unknown source.

Failing to answer direct questions to back up your claims tend to devalue your claims.

Do you believe that your claims should be immune from any cross examination?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:33am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.


That sums me up too, but I'm less enthusiastic about nuclear power in Australia. It will never be allowed to happen. That's the reality of it.

I'm all for rational debate.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:42am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:
I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.


Well, we have plenty of Thorium in Australia. There was a flurry of interest a few years ago, but I haven't heard anything recently.

Solar has a lot of potential here.

If there is going to be a nuclear reactor though, I want it to be in my back yard.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:30am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.

are you joining issues  ::)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:33am

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:33am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.


That sums me up too, but I'm less enthusiastic about nuclear power in Australia. It will never be allowed to happen. That's the reality of it.

I'm all for rational debate.

The rational debate is that the big populations of the world need nuclear power: because they need weapons!

The small nations have been told to stay out of that game including Australia!

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 2:45pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.

You don't believe in providing sources do ya mate  ;) ;)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:30pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.



Thorium could be the answer to all the world's safe energy needs.
We must do research as the Chinese & Indians are now doing.

I don't expect it to happen in this brainless country.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:43pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.


with LFTRs, yes, there is  a smaller volume of  waste, but it is more intensively radioactive. The reactor itself, at the end of its lifetime, will constitute high level waste:

Thorium reactors are not based on a pseudo-self sustaining fission reaction like conventional fissioning reactors reactors.

What are you going to use as a continual neutron source?

Do you know how long it will take to get the Thorium fuel cycle up and running?

The most favoured Thorium reactor design is the the  Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor (LFTR). This reactor is estimated to have a lead time of 40 to 70 years. There are other inferior Thorium reactor systems which could be deployed earlier, but we are still looking at several decades.

List all the nuclear waste products associated with Thorium reactors, their half lifes and the proposed methods of disposal/waste management.

Lets hear what Dr Karamoskos has to say about Thorium reactor technology and commercial vialibility:

Without exception, [thorium reactors] have never been commercially viable, nor do any of the intended new designs even remotely seem to be viable. Like all nuclear power production they rely on extensive taxpayer subsidies; the only difference is that with thorium and other breeder reactors these are of an order of magnitude greater, which is why no government has ever continued their funding.


Well done on opening your mouth without actually doing any background research.


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:48pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:30pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.



Thorium could be the answer to all the world's safe energy needs.
We must do research as the Chinese & Indians are now doing.

I don't expect it to happen in this brainless country.


Base load solar thermal power plants are now commercially more viable than nuclear and fossil fuel power plants.

In India and Chile, Solar Thermal won major energy contracts purely based on being the cheapest option.

And this in an environment of low Oil prices.

Thorium is a nuclear industry spin furphy.

In Post war America, the nuclear industry was claiming that nuclear power was clean, safe and cheap even though they couldn't insure the operations for public liability and needed government hand outs and guarantees.

The nuclear industry also claimed that electricity would be so cheap from a nuclear power plant that they would be giving it away.

Well done to them het Mr Sir Bobby?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:51pm
Dear Chimp,
Thorium reactors have a promise of safe nuclear power as they can never melt down.
The theoretical reactor  uses molten salt & normal 1 atmospheric pressure.
They can also convert nuclear waste into useful energy.

forgiven

namaste

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:10pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:51pm:
Dear Chimp,
Thorium reactors have a promise of safe nuclear power as they can never melt down.
The theoretical reactor  uses molten salt & normal 1 atmospheric pressure.
They can also convert nuclear waste into useful energy.

forgiven

namaste


Nuclear based energy can never be safe Mr Sir Bobby

Thorium reactors, as you say, cannot melt down because the reaction requires a neutron source which can fail or be switched off. Throium reactors produce a more intense waste material than conventional nuclear reactors, albeit at a lower volume.

Its the waste mr Sir Bobby

its the security of any nuclear based reactor or waste dump.

Can you ensure security? What if a plane or deliberate terrorist act targets a nuclear power plant or waste dump?

And just thinking outside the box, I know it can never happen Mr Sir Bobby, but lets entertain a hypothetical scenario involving a nuclear power plant:

Lets imagine for one moment, that a nation constructs a few nuclear reactors right along the shoreline of an earthquake and tsunami prone zone and erects a water barrier of say 5m high with the fore knowledge of 15m tsunamis in the area. Then they locate the diesel back up generators in the basement of the reactor facility and the water pumps almost adjacent to the wave break line.

Imagine, an earth quake happens deep in the ocean and a large tsunami is created Mr Sir Bobby.

Well done to that nation - hey mr Sir Bobby?

Well dones all around - (and I suppose if it occurred in say japan, for example, then it would be apologies all around Mr Sir Bobby)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:45pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 2:45pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.

You don't believe in providing sources do ya mate  ;) ;)



Pot kettle smacking black

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:55pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:51pm:
Dear Chimp,
Thorium reactors have a promise of safe nuclear power as they can never melt down.
The theoretical reactor  uses molten salt & normal 1 atmospheric pressure.
They can also convert nuclear waste into useful energy.

forgiven

namaste


Nuclear based energy can never be safe Mr Sir Bobby

Thorium reactors, as you say, cannot melt down because the reaction requires a neutron source which can fail or be switched off. Throium reactors produce a more intense waste material than conventional nuclear reactors, albeit at a lower volume.

Its the waste mr Sir Bobby

its the security of any nuclear based reactor or waste dump.

Can you ensure security? What if a plane or deliberate terrorist act targets a nuclear power plant or waste dump?

And just thinking outside the box, I know it can never happen Mr Sir Bobby, but lets entertain a hypothetical scenario involving a nuclear power plant:

Lets imagine for one moment, that a nation constructs a few nuclear reactors right along the shoreline of an earthquake and tsunami prone zone and erects a water barrier of say 5m high with the fore knowledge of 15m tsunamis in the area. Then they locate the diesel back up generators in the basement of the reactor facility and the water pumps almost adjacent to the wave break line.

Imagine, an earth quake happens deep in the ocean and a large tsunami is created Mr Sir Bobby.

Well done to that nation - hey mr Sir Bobby?

Well dones all around - (and I suppose if it occurred in say japan, for example, then it would be apologies all around Mr Sir Bobby)




A thorium reactor at Fukushima would have still been safe -

it couldn't have melted down.

forgiven again

namaste

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 9:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:55pm:
A thorium reactor at Fukushima would have still been safe -

it couldn't have melted down.

forgiven again

namaste


true, but it is no justification for using nuclear fission when the waste management issues have not been sorted out and the security of facilities cannot be ensure Mr Sir Bobby.

On all counts, nuclear energy falls short - and now there are more sustainable and safer methods of generating excited electrons to pump along copper cables.

Well done Mr Sir Bobby on putting in a big effort mate

Congratulations on your efforts - even though they do generate a high probability of apology requirements and self banishment

keep up the great work and well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 4th, 2016 at 3:56pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:55pm:
A thorium reactor at Fukushima would have still been safe -

it couldn't have melted down.

forgiven again

namaste


true, but it is no justification for using nuclear fission when the waste management issues have not been sorted out and the security of facilities cannot be ensure Mr Sir Bobby.

On all counts, nuclear energy falls short - and now there are more sustainable and safer methods of generating excited electrons to pump along copper cables.

Well done Mr Sir Bobby on putting in a big effort mate

Congratulations on your efforts - even though they do generate a high probability of apology requirements and self banishment

keep up the great work and well done mate



Chimp brain - there is a whole thread on it where I contributed greatly.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1442022578/45

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 4th, 2016 at 5:02pm
::) ::)
Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 5:30pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.



Thorium could be the answer to all the world's safe energy needs.
We must do research as the Chinese & Indians are now doing.

I don't expect it to happen in this brainless country.

::) ::)

You are such a brainless moron  ;) ;)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 4th, 2016 at 5:03pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:45pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 2:45pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 12:00pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 2nd, 2016 at 9:19pm:
I'm pro nuclear in so far as, I believe there are valuable medical and scientific uses for radioisotopes and we should have a rational debate about the use of nuclear power in this country without the scare mongering.



I am all for a Thorium research reactor.

I don't like uranium reactors because they are under 70 atmospheres of pressure -
they are no better than a giant bomb &
they make too much nuclear waste.

...what's a thorium research reactor for? Does it work?



See this here is an issue, a person with zero smacking knowledge. Thorium reactors have a larger available fuel supply, produce less waste, and are hard to use in weapon production because they produce bugger all plutonium.

They also dont need to enrich the thorium, and its energy production means one ton of thorium can produce the same energy as 200 tonnes of uranium or 3.5 million tonnes of coal.

You don't believe in providing sources do ya mate  ;) ;)



Pot kettle smacking black

deflection ,  :o :o


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 4th, 2016 at 5:17pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 3:56pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:55pm:
A thorium reactor at Fukushima would have still been safe -

it couldn't have melted down.

forgiven again

namaste


true, but it is no justification for using nuclear fission when the waste management issues have not been sorted out and the security of facilities cannot be ensure Mr Sir Bobby.

On all counts, nuclear energy falls short - and now there are more sustainable and safer methods of generating excited electrons to pump along copper cables.

Well done Mr Sir Bobby on putting in a big effort mate

Congratulations on your efforts - even though they do generate a high probability of apology requirements and self banishment

keep up the great work and well done mate



Chimp brain - there is a whole thread on it where I contributed greatly.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1442022578/45


thanks Mr Sir Bobby - you are truly a kind and reliable friend. well done on that front mate.

I will look at your contributions in early October 2018 - its in my diary mate

well done mate - well done on your contributions.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:08pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 3:56pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:55pm:
A thorium reactor at Fukushima would have still been safe -

it couldn't have melted down.

forgiven again

namaste


true, but it is no justification for using nuclear fission when the waste management issues have not been sorted out and the security of facilities cannot be ensure Mr Sir Bobby.

On all counts, nuclear energy falls short - and now there are more sustainable and safer methods of generating excited electrons to pump along copper cables.

Well done Mr Sir Bobby on putting in a big effort mate

Congratulations on your efforts - even though they do generate a high probability of apology requirements and self banishment

keep up the great work and well done mate



Chimp brain - there is a whole thread on it where I contributed greatly.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1442022578/45


thanks Mr Sir Bobby - you are truly a kind and reliable friend. well done on that front mate.

I will look at your contributions in early October 2018 - its in my diary mate

well done mate - well done on your contributions.



Dear beloved Chimp,

remember what I wrote:



Quote:
But you don't understand:
95% of Thorium is fissionable if it's bombarded with neutrons.

Also it stops it's fission as soon as you stop the neutrons - it can't melt down -
it doesn't need a 70 atmosphere pressure water reactor.

It's walk away safe if something goes wrong - not like Fukushima.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:13pm
well done Mr Sir Bobby - you remembered

well done mate.

You do realise that Thorium reactor waste, although less in volume, is more intensely toxic and radioactive than conventional nuclear reactor that use Uranium and MOX as fuel?

will you be offering your suburb as a candidate nuclear waste disposal site? The nuclear waste is very safe isnt it Mr Sir Bobby - well done to you and your neighbors if you are the successful bid,

well done mate

well done 8-)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:41pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:13pm:
well done Mr Sir Bobby - you remembered

well done mate.

You do realise that Thorium reactor waste, although less in volume, is more intensely toxic and radioactive than conventional nuclear reactor that use Uranium and MOX as fuel?

will you be offering your suburb as a candidate nuclear waste disposal site? The nuclear waste is very safe isnt it Mr Sir Bobby - well done to you and your neighbors if you are the successful bid,

well done mate

well done 8-)


Thorium waste is tiny in comparison to the millions
of tons of Uranium waste & could be kept 2 km underground in Synrock ceramic - where it would be forever safe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synroc

keep up with the times - buddy.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:02pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:41pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:13pm:
well done Mr Sir Bobby - you remembered

well done mate.

You do realise that Thorium reactor waste, although less in volume, is more intensely toxic and radioactive than conventional nuclear reactor that use Uranium and MOX as fuel?

will you be offering your suburb as a candidate nuclear waste disposal site? The nuclear waste is very safe isnt it Mr Sir Bobby - well done to you and your neighbors if you are the successful bid,

well done mate

well done 8-)


Thorium waste is tiny in comparison to the millions
of tons of Uranium waste & could be kept 2 km underground in Synrock ceramic - where it would be forever safe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synroc

keep up with the times - buddy.


:DApologise  ;D

well done though - well done on putting in a effort

You are aware that a typical nuclear core remains in the primary reactor vessel for several years duing fissioning, and then at least 5 years in the spent fuel pool prior to be stored as dry cooler spent fuel waste.

In fact, the nuclear power industry has lobbied governments and legislative bodies over the years so that they can store MORE spent fuel cores in the spent fuel pool, and for longer periods - purely for profit motives and to delay dealing with the waste management issues.

SAFE FOREVER according to the Great Mr Sir Bobby


;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:12pm
Thanks dear beloved Chimp,

only you appreciate the research I do &

the information brought forth to all.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:12pm:
Thanks dear beloved Chimp,

only you appreciate the research I do &

the information brought forth to all.


I do appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years Mr Sir Bobby

As a slave you should be very proud of your achievements.

well done on that front mate - well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:31pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:12pm:
Thanks dear beloved Chimp,

only you appreciate the research I do &

the information brought forth to all.


I do appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years Mr Sir Bobby

As a slave you should be very proud of your achievements.

well done on that front mate - well done



All is revealed without fear or permission

and so it is

namaste

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 4th, 2016 at 11:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:31pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:12pm:
Thanks dear beloved Chimp,

only you appreciate the research I do &

the information brought forth to all.


I do appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years Mr Sir Bobby

As a slave you should be very proud of your achievements.

well done on that front mate - well done



All is revealed without fear or permission


true... so very true Mr Sir Bobby - well done mate

but it doesnt apply to slaves as you know all so well

well done

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 5th, 2016 at 8:59am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 11:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:31pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:12pm:
Thanks dear beloved Chimp,

only you appreciate the research I do &

the information brought forth to all.


I do appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years Mr Sir Bobby

As a slave you should be very proud of your achievements.

well done on that front mate - well done



All is revealed without fear or permission


true... so very true Mr Sir Bobby - well done mate

but it doesnt apply to slaves as you know all so well

well done



I am not a slave of anyone.

You are however - a slave of the media.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 5th, 2016 at 10:35am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 8:59am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 11:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:31pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2016 at 10:12pm:
Thanks dear beloved Chimp,

only you appreciate the research I do &

the information brought forth to all.


I do appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years Mr Sir Bobby

As a slave you should be very proud of your achievements.

well done on that front mate - well done



All is revealed without fear or permission


true... so very true Mr Sir Bobby - well done mate

but it doesnt apply to slaves as you know all so well

well done



I am not a slave of anyone.

You are however - a slave of the media.


well done Mr Sir Bobby

you have finally admitted in public that you were a slave - a status which sadly hasnt changed.

you are taking your first baby steps to recovery Jethro

well done

well done mate

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by lee on Mar 5th, 2016 at 11:55am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 10:35am:
well done Mr Sir Bobby

you have finally admitted in public that you were a slave - a status which sadly hasnt changed.

you are taking your first baby steps to recovery Jethro

well done

well done mate



So by that logic you are still a slave.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 5th, 2016 at 1:00pm

lee wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 11:55am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 10:35am:
well done Mr Sir Bobby

you have finally admitted in public that you were a slave - a status which sadly hasnt changed.

you are taking your first baby steps to recovery Jethro

well done

well done mate



So by that logic you are still a slave.



I was never a slave but I have some respect for masters.

e.g. master Carl Sagan.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 6th, 2016 at 5:12pm
Back on board.  Thorium reactors based on cyclotron technology can actually consume conventional nuclear waste.

That technology is considerable cleaner than the Chinese pebble bed reactor (PBR)  technology, which utilises Thorium. 

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:46pm
Actually, there are no "Thorium Reactors" per se, but rather proposals to use thorium as a “fuel” in different types of reactors, such as light-water reactors and fast breeder reactor designs.

Does anyone care to explain how these "Thorium Reactors" (which don't exist) are a solution to the world's nuclear waste problem.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 7th, 2016 at 3:09pm
Possible benefits[edit]

Early thorium-based (MSR) nuclear reactor at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in the 1960s
The World Nuclear Association explains some of the possible benefits[16]

The thorium fuel cycle offers enormous energy security benefits in the long-term – due to its potential for being a self-sustaining fuel without the need for fast neutron reactors. It is therefore an important and potentially viable technology that seems able to contribute to building credible, long-term nuclear energy scenarios.[17]

Moir and Teller agree, noting that the possible advantages of thorium include "utilization of an abundant fuel, inaccessibility of that fuel to terrorists or for diversion to weapons use, together with good economics and safety features … "[4] Thorium is considered the "most abundant, most readily available, cleanest, and safest energy source on Earth," adds science writer Richard Martin.[15]:7

Thorium is three times as abundant as uranium and nearly as abundant as lead and gallium in the Earth's crust.[18] The Thorium Energy Alliance (TEA) estimates "there is enough thorium in the United States alone to power the country at its current energy level for over 1,000 years."[17][18] "America has buried tons as a by-product of rare earth metals mining," notes Evans-Pritchard.[19] Almost all thorium is fertile Th-232, compared to uranium that is composed of 99.3% fertile U-238 and 0.7% more valuable fissile U-235.
It is difficult to make a practical nuclear bomb from a thorium reactor's byproducts. According to Alvin Radkowsky, designer of the world's first full-scale atomic electric power plant, "a thorium reactor's plutonium production rate would be less than 2 percent of that of a standard reactor, and the plutonium's isotopic content would make it unsuitable for a nuclear detonation."[15]:11[20] Several uranium-233 bombs have been tested, but the presence of uranium-232 tended to "poison" the uranium-233 in two ways: intense radiation from the uranium-232 made the material difficult to handle, and the uranium-233 led to possible pre-detonation. Separating the uranium-232 from the uranium-233 proved very difficult, although newer laser techniques could facilitate that process.[21][22]
There is much less nuclear waste—up to two orders of magnitude less, states Moir and Teller,[4] eliminating the need for large-scale or long-term storage;[15]:13 "Chinese scientists claim that hazardous waste will be a thousand times less than with uranium."[19] The radioactivity of the resulting waste also drops down to safe levels after just a few hundred years, compared to tens of thousands of years needed for current nuclear waste to cool off.[23]
According to Moir and Teller, "once started up [it] needs no other fuel except thorium because it makes most or all of its own fuel."[4] This only applies to breeding reactors, that produce at least as much fissile material as they consume. Other reactors require additional fissile material, such as uranium-235 or plutonium.[17]
Thorium fuel cycle is a potential way to produce long term nuclear energy with low radio-toxicity waste. In addition, the transition to thorium could be done through the incineration of weapons grade plutonium (WPu) or civilian plutonium.[24]
Since all natural thorium can be used as fuel no expensive fuel enrichment is needed.[23] However the same is true for U-238 as fertile fuel in the uranium-plutonium cycle.
Comparing the amount of thorium needed with coal, Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia of CERN, (European Organization for Nuclear Research), estimates that one ton of thorium can produce as much energy as 200 tons of uranium, or 3,500,000 tons of coal.[25] Coal, makes up 42% of U.S. electrical power generation and 65% in China.[26]
Liquid fluoride thorium reactors are designed to be meltdown proof. A plug at the bottom of the reactor melts in the event of a power failure or if temperatures exceed a set limit, draining the fuel into an underground tank for safe storage.[27]
Mining thorium is safer and more efficient than mining uranium. Thorium's ore monazite generally contains higher concentrations of thorium than the percentage of uranium found in its respective ore. This makes thorium a more cost efficient and less environmentally damaging fuel source. Thorium mining is also easier and less dangerous than uranium mining, as the mine is an open pit which requires no ventilation, unlike underground uranium mines, where radon levels can be potentially harmful.[28]
Summarizing some of the potential benefits, Martin offers his general opinion: "Thorium could provide a clean and effectively limitless source of power while allaying all public concern—weapons proliferation, radioactive pollution, toxic waste, and fuel that is both costly and complicated to process.[15]:13 From an economics viewpoint, UK business editor Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has suggested that "Obama could kill fossil fuels overnight with a nuclear dash for thorium," suggesting a "new Manhattan Project," and adding, "If it works, Manhattan II could restore American optimism and strategic leadership at a stroke …"[25] Moir and Teller estimated in 2004 that the cost for their recommended prototype would be "well under $1 billion with operation costs likely on the order of $100 million per year," and as a result a "large-scale nuclear power plan" usable by many countries could be set up within a decade.[4]



And my work is done


*drops mike, exits stage left*

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 7th, 2016 at 7:44pm
...the so called Thorium reactors are really U-233 reactors but dont tell anyone - they may become concerned

And as far as the BS spin about low toxicity nuclear waste associated with the so called "Thorium Reactors" perhaps somebody in here can tell us what the half life of these little nasties are?

Technetium-99, Iodine-129 and actinides such as Protactinium-231

(I was trying to think of something more evil than nuclear weaponry and waste that Humanity has developed and pursued throughout history and to be honest I cant think of anything that even remotely comes close to this nucleonic insanity...)


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:56pm
biological warfare? chemical warfare?


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 8th, 2016 at 7:07am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:46pm:
Actually, there are no "Thorium Reactors" per se, but rather proposals to use thorium as a “fuel” in different types of reactors, such as light-water reactors and fast breeder reactor designs.

Does anyone care to explain how these "Thorium Reactors" (which don't exist) are a solution to the world's nuclear waste problem.


You are right about the first part, although there are designs in place.

There are plenty of articles about accelerator driven Th reactors. This is one from the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/feb/09/accelerator-nuclear-reactor


Quote:
It's still nuclear fission, but a crucial safety difference between a conventional nuclear reactor and an ADSR is that in the latter the reaction operates at subcritical levels: it is not self-sustaining. So in the event of a problem, all the operator has to do is switch off the proton beam. Almost immediately, the reaction will cease.

Furthermore, the small amount of toxic waste generated by the thorium/uranium-233 fuel cycle ceases to be radioactive after a few hundred years, rather than the thousands of years during which uranium waste remains toxic. Better yet, an ADSR could actually utilise, as fuel, the plutonium waste created by current reactors, eliminating toxic waste while generating further energy.


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 8th, 2016 at 7:20am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 7:44pm:
(I was trying to think of something more evil than nuclear weaponry and waste that Humanity has developed and pursued throughout history and to be honest I cant think of anything that even remotely comes close to this nucleonic insanity...)


Nuclear weaponry perhaps.  They may have a peaceful use one day if you believe Hollywood blockbusters.

On the other hand, you could argue that their existence has prevented many wars because the consequences of using them are so dire. 

Having said that, it's still quite scary to think of India and Pakistan pointing nukes at each other. The scenario of a large asteroid impact being mistaken for a nuclear bomb, thus precipitating all-out nuclear war, has been raised in popular literature.

I agree that biological warfare is potentially much worse than nuclear weaponry.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 8th, 2016 at 8:51am

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 7:20am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 7:44pm:
(I was trying to think of something more evil than nuclear weaponry and waste that Humanity has developed and pursued throughout history and to be honest I cant think of anything that even remotely comes close to this nucleonic insanity...)


Nuclear weaponry perhaps.  They may have a peaceful use one day if you believe Hollywood blockbusters.

On the other hand, you could argue that their existence has prevented many wars because the consequences of using them are so dire. 

Having said that, it's still quite scary to think of India and Pakistan pointing nukes at each other. The scenario of a large asteroid impact being mistaken for a nuclear bomb, thus precipitating all-out nuclear war, has been raised in popular literature.

I agree that biological warfare is potentially much worse than nuclear weaponry.


I have read that there are nuclear weapons which are designed to target biological systems and leave physical structures such as buildings, bridges, dams, etc intact. Some sort of intense neutron releasing detonation very high above the target city. A bio-nuclear weapon of sorts

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 8th, 2016 at 8:55am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:56pm:
biological warfare? chemical warfare?


there are simple practical ways to protect yourself from these forms of warfare - as ugly and dangerous as they are.

I am trying to think of a way to shield one self from a few Hydrogen Bombs and the subsequent fallout

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 8th, 2016 at 9:03am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:56pm:
biological warfare? chemical warfare?


there are simple practical ways to protect yourself from these forms of warfare - as ugly and dangerous as they are.

I am trying to think of a way to shield one self from a few Hydrogen Bombs and the subsequent fallout



Lead shielding. Plus nuclear power has a purpose, produce power. Whats a practical use of VX

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 8th, 2016 at 11:20am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:56pm:
biological warfare? chemical warfare?

..close, but the half life issue makes it a different story! When you think about it nuclear issues are both chemical and biological.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 8th, 2016 at 11:22am

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 7:07am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:46pm:
Actually, there are no "Thorium Reactors" per se, but rather proposals to use thorium as a “fuel” in different types of reactors, such as light-water reactors and fast breeder reactor designs.

Does anyone care to explain how these "Thorium Reactors" (which don't exist) are a solution to the world's nuclear waste problem.


You are right about the first part, although there are designs in place.

There are plenty of articles about accelerator driven Th reactors. This is one from the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/feb/09/accelerator-nuclear-reactor


Quote:
It's still nuclear fission, but a crucial safety difference between a conventional nuclear reactor and an ADSR is that in the latter the reaction operates at subcritical levels: it is not self-sustaining. So in the event of a problem, all the operator has to do is switch off the proton beam. Almost immediately, the reaction will cease.

Furthermore, the small amount of toxic waste generated by the thorium/uranium-233 fuel cycle ceases to be radioactive after a few hundred years, rather than the thousands of years during which uranium waste remains toxic. Better yet, an ADSR could actually utilise, as fuel, the plutonium waste created by current reactors, eliminating toxic waste while generating further energy.

..is this the operative word by any chance ?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 8th, 2016 at 11:25am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 9:03am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:56pm:
biological warfare? chemical warfare?


there are simple practical ways to protect yourself from these forms of warfare - as ugly and dangerous as they are.

I am trying to think of a way to shield one self from a few Hydrogen Bombs and the subsequent fallout



Lead shielding. Plus nuclear power has a purpose, produce power. Whats a practical use of VX

..plus Nuclear Power has a purpose: no, it only produces plutonium to feed the weaponry complex!

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:07pm
So some find solace and comfort in the 23,000 odd nuclear warheads on hair triggers, and the millions of tonnes of nuclear waste on the planet, purely because of the greater threat of some bags of anthrax powder and a few drums of sarin gas.

Well done

Self rationalisation of evil pursuit via delusional excuses

Well done

Congratulations

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:10pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:07pm:
So some find solace and comfort in the 23,000 odd nuclear warheads on hair triggers, and the millions of tonnes of nuclear waste on the planet, purely because of the greater threat of some bags of anthrax powder and a few drums of sarin gas.

Well done

Self rationalisation of evil pursuit via delusional excuses

Well done

Congratulations



No worries, I'm happy.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:49pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:10pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:07pm:
So some find solace and comfort in the 23,000 odd nuclear warheads on hair triggers, and the millions of tonnes of nuclear waste on the planet, purely because of the greater threat of some bags of anthrax powder and a few drums of sarin gas.

Well done

Self rationalisation of evil pursuit via delusional excuses

Well done

Congratulations



No worries, I'm happy.

Looky Looky: it's mike tyson  :D :D

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:50pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 11:22am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 7:07am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:46pm:
Actually, there are no "Thorium Reactors" per se, but rather proposals to use thorium as a “fuel” in different types of reactors, such as light-water reactors and fast breeder reactor designs.

Does anyone care to explain how these "Thorium Reactors" (which don't exist) are a solution to the world's nuclear waste problem.


You are right about the first part, although there are designs in place.

There are plenty of articles about accelerator driven Th reactors. This is one from the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/feb/09/accelerator-nuclear-reactor


Quote:
It's still nuclear fission, but a crucial safety difference between a conventional nuclear reactor and an ADSR is that in the latter the reaction operates at subcritical levels: it is not self-sustaining. So in the event of a problem, all the operator has to do is switch off the proton beam. Almost immediately, the reaction will cease.

Furthermore, the small amount of toxic waste generated by the thorium/uranium-233 fuel cycle ceases to be radioactive after a few hundred years, rather than the thousands of years during which uranium waste remains toxic. Better yet, an ADSR could actually utilise, as fuel, the plutonium waste created by current reactors, eliminating toxic waste while generating further energy.

..is this the operative word by any chance ?


"Could" according to the laws of Physics. Could as in if it were built, it certainly could.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:50pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 11:22am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 7:07am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:46pm:
Actually, there are no "Thorium Reactors" per se, but rather proposals to use thorium as a “fuel” in different types of reactors, such as light-water reactors and fast breeder reactor designs.

Does anyone care to explain how these "Thorium Reactors" (which don't exist) are a solution to the world's nuclear waste problem.


You are right about the first part, although there are designs in place.

There are plenty of articles about accelerator driven Th reactors. This is one from the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/feb/09/accelerator-nuclear-reactor


Quote:
It's still nuclear fission, but a crucial safety difference between a conventional nuclear reactor and an ADSR is that in the latter the reaction operates at subcritical levels: it is not self-sustaining. So in the event of a problem, all the operator has to do is switch off the proton beam. Almost immediately, the reaction will cease.

Furthermore, the small amount of toxic waste generated by the thorium/uranium-233 fuel cycle ceases to be radioactive after a few hundred years, rather than the thousands of years during which uranium waste remains toxic. Better yet, an ADSR could actually utilise, as fuel, the plutonium waste created by current reactors, eliminating toxic waste while generating further energy.

..is this the operative word by any chance ?


"Could" according to the laws of Physics. Could as in if it were built, it certainly could.

Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by John_Taverner on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:16pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?




Yes like me. You know, educated, completed primary school and all that.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?




Yes like me. You know, educated, completed primary school and all that.

That's why you voted for copper internet in the asian century that this country- whom your family actually died for- built? Yeh, makes sense  ::)

You must have the master plan and we should all follow you to the promised land  :)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:32pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?




Yes like me. You know, educated, completed primary school and all that.

That's why you voted for copper internet in the asian century that this country- whom your family actually died for- built? Yeh, makes sense  ::)

You must have the master plan and we should all follow you to the promised land  :)




How do you know what I voted?

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 11th, 2016 at 1:28pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:32pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?




Yes like me. You know, educated, completed primary school and all that.

That's why you voted for copper internet in the asian century that this country- whom your family actually died for- built? Yeh, makes sense  ::)

You must have the master plan and we should all follow you to the promised land  :)




How do you know what I voted?

-> by your attitude  :)

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Bojack Horseman on Mar 11th, 2016 at 3:22pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 1:28pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:32pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?




Yes like me. You know, educated, completed primary school and all that.

That's why you voted for copper internet in the asian century that this country- whom your family actually died for- built? Yeh, makes sense  ::)

You must have the master plan and we should all follow you to the promised land  :)




How do you know what I voted?

-> by your attitude  :)


You've been a complete idiot ever since the SSSF days. I voted Labor for the NBN.

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by BatteriesNotIncluded on Mar 11th, 2016 at 5:32pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 3:22pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 1:28pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:32pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:26am:

John_Taverner wrote on Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:22am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Good thread this one: those libs have zero confidence in their masters coming into an election nowadays!

:D :D


Quite frankly, I don't see any advantage in the ALP from the point of view of Environmental policy, and I see a lot of  advantage from the Libs in terms of economic advantage. The national "coffers" are less likely to be raided for one thing.

I have no political agenda. I just want the truth to be known.

I'm commenting on the Lib voters inability to front up with facts, as this thread demonstrates: as a unit they are panicked!!



Quiet little child, the educated adults are talking/

..like you?




Yes like me. You know, educated, completed primary school and all that.

That's why you voted for copper internet in the asian century that this country- whom your family actually died for- built? Yeh, makes sense  ::)

You must have the master plan and we should all follow you to the promised land  :)




How do you know what I voted?

-> by your attitude  :)


You've been a complete idiot ever since the SSSF days. I voted Labor for the NBN.

Lol: you just told every single lib in the forum they are fu**ed in the head

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 13th, 2016 at 7:18pm
[quote author=Pastafarian link=1456482986/168#168 date=1457327390]Possible benefits[edit]

Early thorium-based (MSR) nuclear reactor at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in the 1960s
The World Nuclear Association explains some of the possible benefits[16]

The thorium fuel cycle offers enormous energy security benefits in the long-term – due to its potential for being a self-sustaining fuel without the need for fast neutron reactors. It is therefore an important and potentially viable technology that seems able to contribute to building credible, long-term nuclear energy scenarios.[17]

Moir and Teller agree, noting that the possible advantages of thorium include "utilization of an abundant fuel, inaccessibility of that fuel to terrorists or for diversion to weapons use, together with good economics and safety features … "[4] Thorium is considered the "most abundant, most readily available, cleanest, and safest energy source on Earth," adds science writer Richard Martin.[15]:7

Thorium is three times as abundant as uranium and nearly as abundant as lead and gallium in the Earth's crust.[18] The Thorium Energy Alliance (TEA) estimates "there is enough thorium in the United States alone to power the country at its current energy level for over 1,000 years."[17][18] "America has buried tons as a by-product of rare earth metals mining," notes Evans-Pritchard.[19] Almost all thorium is fertile Th-232, compared to uranium that is composed of 99.3% fertile U-238 and 0.7% more valuable fissile U-235.
It is difficult to make a practical nuclear bomb from a thorium reactor's byproducts. According to Alvin Radkowsky, designer of the world's first full-scale atomic electric power plant, "a thorium reactor's plutonium production rate would be less than 2 percent of that of a standard reactor, and the plutonium's isotopic content would make it unsuitable for a nuclear detonation."[15]:11[20] Several uranium-233 bombs have been tested, but the presence of uranium-232 tended to "poison" the uranium-233 in two ways: intense radiation from the uranium-232 made the material difficult to handle, and the uranium-233 led to possible pre-detonation. Separating the uranium-232 from the uranium-233 proved very difficult, although newer laser techniques could facilitate that process.[21][22]
There is much less nuclear waste—up to two orders of magnitude less, states Moir and Teller,[4] eliminating the need for large-scale or long-term storage;[15]:13 "Chinese scientists claim that hazardous waste will be a thousand times less than with uranium."[19] The radioactivity of the resulting waste also drops down to safe levels after just a few hundred years, compared to tens of thousands of years needed for current nuclear waste to cool off.[23]
According to Moir and Teller, "once started up [it] needs no other fuel except thorium because it makes most or all of its own fuel."[4] This only applies to breeding reactors, that produce at least as much fissile material as they consume. Other reactors require additional fissile material, such as uranium-235 or plutonium.[17]
Thorium fuel cycle is a potential way to produce long term nuclear energy with low radio-toxicity waste. In addition, the transition to thorium could be done through the incineration of weapons grade plutonium (WPu) or civilian plutonium.[24]
Since all natural thorium can be used as fuel no expensive fuel enrichment is needed.[23] However the same is true for U-238 as fertile fuel in the uranium-plutonium cycle.
Comparing the amount of thorium needed with coal, Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia of CERN, (European Organization for Nuclear Research), estimates that one ton of thorium can produce as much energy as 200 tons of uranium, or 3,500,000 tons of coal.[25] Coal, makes up 42% of U.S. electrical power generation and 65% in China.[26]
Liquid fluoride thorium reactors are designed to be meltdown proof. A plug at the bottom of the reactor melts in the event of a power failure or if temperatures exceed a set limit, draining the fuel into an underground tank for safe storage.[27]
Mining thorium is safer and more efficient than mining uranium. Thorium's ore monazite generally contains higher concentrations of thorium than the percentage of uranium found in its respective ore. This makes thorium a more cost efficient and less environmentally damaging fuel source. Thorium mining is also easier and less dangerous than uranium mining, as the mine is an open pit which requires no ventilation, unlike underground uranium mines, where radon levels can be potentially harmful.[28]

Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Sir Bobby on Mar 13th, 2016 at 7:18pm

Quote:
Summarizing some of the potential benefits, Martin offers his general opinion: "Thorium could provide a clean and effectively limitless source of power while allaying all public concern—weapons proliferation, radioactive pollution, toxic waste, and fuel that is both costly and complicated to process.[15]:13 From an economics viewpoint, UK business editor Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has suggested that "Obama could kill fossil fuels overnight with a nuclear dash for thorium," suggesting a "new Manhattan Project," and adding, "If it works, Manhattan II could restore American optimism and strategic leadership at a stroke …"[25] Moir and Teller estimated in 2004 that the cost for their recommended prototype would be "well under $1 billion with operation costs likely on the order of $100 million per year," and as a result a "large-scale nuclear power plan" usable by many countries could be set up within a decade.[4]




Good post well done.



Title: Re: Fukushima 50000 Bq/kg Cesium found in Monkey turds
Post by Chimp_Logic on Mar 13th, 2016 at 9:48pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 13th, 2016 at 7:18pm:

Quote:
Summarizing some of the potential benefits, Martin offers his general opinion: "Thorium could provide a clean and effectively limitless source of power while allaying all public concern—weapons proliferation, radioactive pollution, toxic waste, and fuel that is both costly and complicated to process.[15]:13 From an economics viewpoint, UK business editor Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has suggested that "Obama could kill fossil fuels overnight with a nuclear dash for thorium," suggesting a "new Manhattan Project," and adding, "If it works, Manhattan II could restore American optimism and strategic leadership at a stroke …"[25] Moir and Teller estimated in 2004 that the cost for their recommended prototype would be "well under $1 billion with operation costs likely on the order of $100 million per year," and as a result a "large-scale nuclear power plan" usable by many countries could be set up within a decade.[4]




Good post well done.


You're back early Mr Sir Bobby

Dont you think that you should at least apologise?

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