http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/work-for-the-dole-has-little-effect-on-finding-work-review-20160211-gmrpvw.html

Now to demonstrate that I look at each policy by merit not party...

This policy has actually improved employment prospects.  I'm not sure if it was worth $1B but for those who wouldn't have crossed the line it did for them.

Reminds me the story about the boy throwing starfish back into the sea that many of them got stranded on beach.  A passerby said to the boy that his attempts won't make a difference.  The boy who just threw one back in to the sea said "yeh but it did for that one".

Well...maybe time for libs to come up with a more effective (less victimisation) policy?

.. is the bad english for a reason?

Just like every other policy these clowns try to push......FAIL.

'employment prospects' is a long way from 'employment'.... and is judged by a totally different yardstick...

"Yeah... YEAH... we pumped that boy full of prospects for employment -- the best that money could buy.... but he still ain't got a job."

Does anyone have a clear criticism ?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:49pm:

'employment prospects' is a long way from 'employment'.... and is judged by a totally different yardstick... "Yeah... YEAH... we pumped that boy full of prospects for employment -- the best that money could buy.... but he still ain't got a job."

The dole push people thru agencies and the employer knows keeping agencies rich is to their benefit. It is economy I suppose..  ::)

is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?

No I'm not  but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

oh dear wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 11th, 2016 at 9:23pm: is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ? No I'm not  but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

they can't, they've shut down most of the tafe system ... whatever's left is in the pipeline to be sold off

Hokeynomics  :D :D :D :D

oh dear wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 11th, 2016 at 9:23pm: is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ? No I'm not  but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

.. so they can compete with all the newly unemployed tradesmen and miners etc... all those specialists....

My point is that no matter which way you cook the goose..... there are still too many people who miss out on the meal.... because there are too many people to employ, UNLESS...... (repeat unless).... there is a massive change in direction from 'government' and 'business' here.

What I see is middle order business people founding and building up such things as a ship construction industry in Newcastle - a 'private' replacement for the old State Dockyards (once a prime place to get an apprenticeship).... and those private businesses then being shafted by their own 'government' in its desperate desire to satisfy the 'global economy' long before they even consider their own people......

I'm an old Newcastle boy..... I have relatives and in-laws who worked (once were workers) in the mining industry, ship building, steel and iron etc.. and also in the farming country that once was (once were farmers) before the mines etc .... now they're nothing but statistics....

And this filth of a government wants to play Herod by trading off the solid and indisputable direct and unredeemable cost of building ships offshore against the very real benefits to OUR people and economy of building them here.... and KNOWING that they are fully built to OUR specifications rather than on some slipshod slipway of a  third world welding class.......

I guess that makes me a nationalist.......

BOTR!!

It would be more effective to spend the $1 billion to create full time jobs at the minimum wage of about $34,000 p.a. If we consider that each of those people would each no longer need $14,000 in income support, would be paying $3,000 in taxes and saving about $3,000 a year in job provider fees, it would only cost about $14,000 to create one job.

So $1 billion over 3 years divided by $14,000 would be 23,000 jobs. That would be more people getting into work than the dubious 2% rate that Nash is claiming for WfD.

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:33pm:

oh dear wrote on Feb 11th, 2016 at 9:31pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 11th, 2016 at 9:23pm: is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ? No I'm not  but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills. they can't, they've shut down most of the tafe system ... whatever's left is in the pipeline to be sold off Hokeynomics  :D :D :D :D

tafe is shoddy : the price went up for what?

Still no lib supporter posts here....
Must be ducking and weaving season.

Would it change your thinking if Lib supporters engaged with you? I doubt it. You've had leftwing & union politics drilled into you with your baby food & nappy changes.

You understand that the entire global economy is experiencing the same structural issues as the result of technological innovation. Only in some low income countries do the formerly widespread opportunities for mass manufacturing employment exist and they will shrink as the bots replace them.

Nobody has yet come up with satisfactory answers as to where we need to go. Job training is only a palliative when the jobs disappear.

bogarde73 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

Would it change your thinking if Lib supporters engaged with you? I doubt it. You've had leftwing & union politics drilled into you with your baby food & nappy changes.

Is that how you got your rightwing views? :-?


bogarde73 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

You understand that the entire global economy is experiencing the same structural issues as the result of technological innovation. Only in some low income countries do the formerly widespread opportunities for mass manufacturing employment exist and they will shrink as the bots replace them.

That is irrelevant. This thread is discussing Work for the Dole and how ineffective it is. If you want to discuss the global economy, start a thread in the Thinking Globally section of the forum.


bogarde73 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

Nobody has yet come up with satisfactory answers as to where we need to go. Job training is only a palliative when the jobs disappear.

Bring back real full employment.

Remove all the barriers to employment that prevent an unemployed person from finding work.

Mandatory penalty rates for overtime. Get rid of this culture of workers being expected to work for free that sees workers giving companies over $110 billion of free labour a year.

A 35-hour week: if the jobs pie is not big enough, cut it into smaller slices.

Redirect funding for Work for the Dole into job creation programs.

Redirect funding for the wasteful and ineffective JSP network into a reinstated CES with a single national job market.

Eliminate the paternalistic approach to unemployment and give the unemployed back their right of self-determination. It's actually harder for an unemployed person in Australia to take up fruit picking work a few hours from home than it is for a backpacker to come here from Germany to do the same work - and that backpacker also pays a lower effective rate of tax. Unemployed Australians are not permitted to travel to look for work because they are punished harshly for it.

Just to contrast - polices that don't - funding indirectly those private companies.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/other-industries/thousands-of-students-left-with-massive-debts-in-the-wake-of-training-college-collapse/news-story/809a3a5a680b5bea09f8d8b13a646c70 

Contrasting this with the less than 5? deaths from lab policy like the roof thing...

Sure deaths are a tragedy - but so is making the people who are still living under appalling conditions even more inhumane.

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:42pm:

.. is the bad english for a reason?

You want to try to decipher bad Spanish ?

Quote:

lib policies really work!

Yes but not at what we are meant to think they are doing.

WFD - provides free labour. This creates a profitable industry for business that the workers don't get to share in, in the past it was referred to as slave labour.

stunspore wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:36pm:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/work-for-the-dole-has-little-effect-on-finding-work-review-20160211-gmrpvw.html Now to demonstrate that I look at each policy by merit not party... This policy has actually improved employment prospects.  I'm not sure if it was worth $1B but for those who wouldn't have crossed the line it did for them. Reminds me the story about the boy throwing starfish back into the sea that many of them got stranded on beach.  A passerby said to the boy that his attempts won't make a difference.  The boy who just threw one back in to the sea said "yeh but it did for that one". Well...maybe time for libs to come up with a more effective (less victimisation) policy?

Hope the kid wasn't in QLD and throwing back Crown of Thorns startfish. ;)  If he was he would definitely be a liberal party voter in the future.