Here it is guys. The smoking gun. A US senator spills his guts about china and how it has been used by US corporations and Governments to de-industrialize and steal away the wealth of their own country only to be replaced with a crap service industry as a pathetic attempt to compensate for the exodus of manufacturing and the loss of jobs it has created. And what is the payoff in all of this ? Some wealthy politicians and corporations :(

And of course we have the rest of the Western countries going along for the ride and telling us how free trade deals are the way forward for us all :(

Greed is good !!


Quote:

As America battles a crippled economy and high unemployment, its superpower status seems to be ever more fragile. Meanwhile, China's economy and military continue to grow at an amazing rate -- and some US politicians say America is to blame. ­"We have built China into a major economic power without demanding any kind of political reform ... we have created a monster," Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) told RT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEuDLjmGN9s

The Chinese built it with economic reform. The political reform is almost inevitable. Some would argue it is already happening. The Chinese communist party turning to capitalism is hardly insignificant.

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 10:51am:

The Chinese built it with economic reform. The political reform is almost inevitable. Some would argue it is already happening. The Chinese communist party turning to capitalism is hardly insignificant.

Let us know when it happens :D LOL

it was Tony wasnt it?..

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 10:51am:

The Chinese built it with economic reform. The political reform is almost inevitable. Some would argue it is already happening. The Chinese communist party turning to capitalism is hardly insignificant.

they have woken up

MONEY.. IS ... EVERYTHING>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Jiabao

In the first term of his Premiership Wen's attitudes towards political reform seemed ambivalent. He has remarked that "the socialist system will continue in China for the next 100 years",[30] although later in a Press Conference at the 2007 National People's Congress, he stated that "democracy is one of the basic goals of the socialist system". Furthermore, in an interview in September 2008, Wen acknowledged that the democratic system in China needs to be improved, where the power "truly belongs to the people" through the construction of an independent judicial system and for the government to accept criticism from the people.[31] Wen, seen as a former ally of Premier Zhao Ziyang, is likely supportive of the latter's political rehabilitation. However, Wen has rarely mentioned Zhao publicly during his premiership. When asked by CNN whether or not China will liberalize for free elections in the next 25 years, Wen stated that it would be "hard to predict."

cods wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 11:27am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 10:51am: The Chinese built it with economic reform. The political reform is almost inevitable. Some would argue it is already happening. The Chinese communist party turning to capitalism is hardly insignificant. they have woken up MONEY.. IS ... EVERYTHING>

Yes the West gave it to them and now we sell them our real estate and farms and just serve each other cups of coffee for a living. That's just great !!

A large part of our recent boom was attributable to the rising Chinese middle class. Even our graziers are starting to benefit now that they can afford to eat meat. We want them to be rich and it is not a one-way street. It is not possible for it to be a one-way street.

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:35pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Jiabao In the first term of his Premiership Wen's attitudes towards political reform seemed ambivalent. He has remarked that "the socialist system will continue in China for the next 100 years",[30] although later in a Press Conference at the 2007 National People's Congress, he stated that "democracy is one of the basic goals of the socialist system". Furthermore, in an interview in September 2008, Wen acknowledged that the democratic system in China needs to be improved, where the power "truly belongs to the people" through the construction of an independent judicial system and for the government to accept criticism from the people.[31] Wen, seen as a former ally of Premier Zhao Ziyang, is likely supportive of the latter's political rehabilitation. However, Wen has rarely mentioned Zhao publicly during his premiership. When asked by CNN whether or not China will liberalize for free elections in the next 25 years, Wen stated that it would be "hard to predict."

You are forgetting how the so called reformed government has managed to line its own pockets with billions :(

What makes you think that?

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:57pm:

What makes you think that?

It's a well reported fact !!

My forgetfulness makes the media these days?

It's about corruption.  Why else would such massive construction occur, for cities that no one wants?  Kick-backs and scams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_84fnKQco

Look no further then the western consumer.
If he did not feel the need to feed his ego by filling his house with "stuff"  , this would never happen.

When the consumer is willing to admit that it is HIS / HER fault, this nonsense will cease.

The Ivory trade is barbaric.  Is it totally the fault of the poachers?
Do not the moronic consumers who pay for ivory to fill their own , low-conscious ego's, also bear some of the blame.


Do you own an iphone, wear chinese made clothing, use chinese electronics, benefit from the economic boom selling coal and iron ore to china which pays for australian welfare, hospitals and schools.


Lets try and get the consumer to use some mindfulness please and share in the guilt

random wrote on Jan 28^th, 2016 at 7:29am:

It's about corruption.  Why else would such massive construction occur, for cities that no one wants?  Kick-backs and scams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_84fnKQco

Don't be naive, there are ghost towns but not everywhere. When you have 1.4b people need to upgrade living conditions in a decade, massive construction is expected.

China produced 0.9b ton raw steel and more than 1b m2 properties last year. Even 1% of these are enough to build hundreds of ghost towns in Austrlia scale. So you need to understand the size of it first.

Corruption is catalyst in Chinese economy, it forms anti-centralization political power, i.e. anti- dictatorship power. Overall, people benefits from it if comparing to pure communist beaurocratic central controlled economy.

beer wrote on Jan 28^th, 2016 at 7:58am:

random wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 7:29am: It's about corruption.  Why else would such massive construction occur, for cities that no one wants?  Kick-backs and scams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_84fnKQco Don't be naive, there are ghost towns but not everywhere. When you have 1.4b people need to upgrade living conditions in a decade, massive construction is expected. China produced 0.9b ton raw steel and more than 1b m2 properties last year. Even 1% of these are enough to build hundreds of ghost towns in Austrlia scale. So you need to understand the size of it first. Corruption is catalyst in Chinese economy, it forms anti-centralization political power, i.e. anti- dictatorship power. Overall, people benefits from it if comparing to pure communist beaurocratic central controlled economy.

Did I say they were 'everywhere'?  No.  But there are enough to cause the problem.  Now with the economy slowing there is less chance of the cities being occupied. 

http://pix-media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/1070/image02.png

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:40pm:

A large part of our recent boom was attributable to the rising Chinese middle class. Even our graziers are starting to benefit now that they can afford to eat meat. We want them to be rich and it is not a one-way street. It is not possible for it to be a one-way street.

Yes it was a one off boom that happened at great expense to ourselves. We gained a handful of mining jobs for a short period of time but how many long term manufacturing jobs disappeared because greed incorporated wanted to chase down the labour price elsewhere ?

We don't even have a sovereign wealth fund like Norway has to show for all of this because the pollies were too limp wristed to legislate a super profits tax. Again greed incorporated got its way :(

The pollies and greed incorporated have certainly stitched us up on this one and yet they keep doing free trade deals and telling us how its all good for us and nobody else whilst billions are spent each year on training and work for the dole scams for the unemployed. Yes and selling off our real estate and agricultural land to the highest foreign chinese bidder is also supposed to be great for us too !!

aquascoot wrote on Jan 28^th, 2016 at 7:44am:

Look no further then the western consumer. If he did not feel the need to feed his ego by filling his house with "stuff"  , this would never happen. When the consumer is willing to admit that it is HIS / HER fault, this nonsense will cease. The Ivory trade is barbaric.  Is it totally the fault of the poachers? Do not the moronic consumers who pay for ivory to fill their own , low-conscious ego's, also bear some of the blame. Do you own an iphone, wear chinese made clothing, use chinese electronics, benefit from the economic boom selling coal and iron ore to china which pays for australian welfare, hospitals and schools. Lets try and get the consumer to use some mindfulness please and share in the guilt

It's not the consumer. It was the likes of Walmart and harvey norman that decided that people should fill their houses with their brand of cheap chinese junk.

And a one off mining boom that created some temporary mining jobs whilst politicians were refusing to apply a super profits tax to keep the proceeds for a rainy day. Now they want to raise the GST to compensate for their spinless policies which of course wrere written for them by greedy corporations :(

Keep saying that Chinese cheap labours take away your jobs would not help you any little bit.

Your short sight politicians from entire western world accepted the evil Chinese gov to utilize slave workers there to manufacture cheap things to fill their voters houses and also use black money to there to fund their election. It's so called democracy and moral.

Now little evil started to grow to a giant monster, started to be out of control now, it's already too late. Just sit tight and watch the show now.

The current rhetoric against China is originating in USA which fears being displaced as the major economic power in the world.

China is already setting its own course and doesn't need countries like Australia because there are many others that can supply similar resources. China is now focusing on promoting internal consumption to free itself from the tyranny dependence on exports.

In regard to resource pricing, the Japanese trading houses in the mid 1980s were manipulating markets to cause price fluctuations in resources which they then profited from because they coordinated their actions such that they knew when peaks and troughs in prices would occur. China is now powerful enough to do the same thing and the current low resource prices may be the Chinese having a practice run at controlling prices.

The Chines 'socialist' leadership, being the good and greedy capitalists they are, same as those in any similar position in the world, saw a golden opportunity to channel all the resources of the State - law, military and police power, government control etc - into the creation of a massive industrial state - in which they - the leaders - would hold all the juicy spots and would - literally - reap billions from doing so, as their reward for creating a more prosperous China.

We see the same here with our politicians - who are absolutely drooling at the prospect of being able to harness every facet of control in this society to generate a New Profit and Prosperity Sphere - from which they, of course, in the same vein as the Chinese leadership, should rightly reap billions...

Just a little reward for their public service, mind..... nothing corrupt... nah... NAH... s'all lies.. all lies... jist their political enemies trying to smear their names, 'at is... s'all lies....

beer wrote on Jan 28^th, 2016 at 11:11am:

Keep saying that Chinese cheap labours take away your jobs would not help you any little bit. Your short sight politicians from entire western world accepted the evil Chinese gov to utilize slave workers there to manufacture cheap things to fill their voters houses and also use black money to there to fund their election. It's so called democracy and moral. Now little evil started to grow to a giant monster, started to be out of control now, it's already too late. Just sit tight and watch the show now.

It's no doubt the west created the chinese economic monster otherwise the chinese would all still be riding around on bicycles and rickshaws.

Quote:

Look no further then the western consumer. If he did not feel the need to feed his ego by filling his house with "stuff"  , this would never happen.

The eastern consumer is equally eager, though the impact on us is often their taste for quality. Check out the share price for blackmores - that is the effect of Chinese wanting good quality vitamin pills that aren't tainted with industrial chemicals. it's not a one-way street.


Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 28^th, 2016 at 10:05am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 2:40pm: A large part of our recent boom was attributable to the rising Chinese middle class. Even our graziers are starting to benefit now that they can afford to eat meat. We want them to be rich and it is not a one-way street. It is not possible for it to be a one-way street. Yes it was a one off boom that happened at great expense to ourselves. We gained a handful of mining jobs for a short period of time but how many long term manufacturing jobs disappeared because greed incorporated wanted to chase down the labour price elsewhere ?

No. It is just the beginning of a long and sustained one. The Chinese are not going to stop eating beef, or buying raw materials. The Chinese are still relatively poor. Their gap between their living standard and ours, or even what ours might increase to in the future, should give you an indication of how much further this can go, if the Chinese government continues liberalising. This is how we got where we are today - one country after another improving their lot and creating an enourmous global middle class to produce an ever expanding suite of goods for each other.


Quote:

We don't even have a sovereign wealth fund like Norway has to show for all of this because the pollies were too limp wristed to legislate a super profits tax. Again greed incorporated got its way

Howard paid off a lot of government debt - same thing in effect, except it is not quarantined.


Quote:

The pollies and greed incorporated have certainly stitched us up on this one and yet they keep doing free trade deals and telling us how its all good for us and nobody else

It is good for everyone.


Quote:

Your short sight politicians from entire western world accepted the evil Chinese gov to utilize slave workers there to manufacture cheap things to fill their voters houses and also use black money to there to fund their election. It's so called democracy and moral.

I do not think anyone calls it democracy.


Quote:

We see the same here with our politicians - who are absolutely drooling at the prospect of being able to harness every facet of control in this society to generate a New Profit and Prosperity Sphere - from which they, of course, in the same vein as the Chinese leadership, should rightly reap billions...

Our politicians are paid less than your typical CEO. If they were paid more, we might get more competent ones.

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2016 at 7:25pm:

Our politicians are paid less than your typical CEO. If they were paid more, we might get more competent ones.

Like the CEO of Australia Post? Putting up prices in a falling market and expects huge dividends, and bonuses.

You guys don't really understand the structure of China, here is a little bit correction to your view:

China is not one piece. Not like developed countries, China has huge economic diversity. It does not only mean poor are poor and rich are rich. It also means each class has huge population, my own estimation:

0.6 billion: absolute poor, not even involved in economy cycle, living in villages or small county towns, even not visible in Chinese own media. annual income 10k CNY

0.3 billion: migrate workers from villages to cities; they are younger and involved in the industry, poor but have basic income and social welfare cover, especially medicare like cover when they have a job. They can not affort properties or cars, but they can afford electronic products, like PC, TV, phones. They are connected to internet. annual income is about. 30k CNY.

0.3 billion: original city residents living in small and big cities. They live in their own properties, although not very good condition, they may afford cheap cars, they have stable jobs in companies or government related sectors. They can afford dinners in restaurants and have social life and entertainments. annual income is 50K-80K CNY.

0.1 billion: high income, like professionals, officials, small business owner. They own their own properties in good condition, good location, may have seperate investment properties. They are main players in stock market and buying good quality goods and services. Living condition matches with mid class worldwide. Annual income is about 100K to 300K.

10-30 million: rich and super rich. No need to explain.

I use CNY instead of USD or AUD. Because the price is not comparable in local market. In small cities, everything is still very cheap. You can treat 50K CNY income as 30-40K AUD income here in terms of purchasing power, though simple exchange rate based calculation maybe only 10K AUD.

So what I am saying is if assume a Chinese only shop local products, no imported expensive things, no holidays to big cities:

There are 0.3 billion village migrant workers have similar purchasing power as a Aussie fresh graduates. They buy iPhone etc.

There are another 0.3 billion city residents, their local purchasing power is equivalent to majority of Australian workers. They eat, dinning, watch movies, chat chat chat, doing useless things, just without a car. Car is not count as local products.

And there is 0.1 billion has 1+ properties, cars, holidays, buying imported milk powders. It's a huge number. Actually a professional worker may only earn 200K CNY in Chinese big cities, it's only 50K AUD. But what you have in pokcet after tax and spending is about half. That's similar to AUD 100-150K earners here.

The rest 10-30 miilion own everything, include properties in Sydney.

This is the big picture.

So next time, talking about China you should see it doesn't mean poor nor rich. It means a Africa + Europe + Wall Street style.

Also culture is different, it's not a capitalism country, 99% is, but the core 1% is communism + imperialism. It's a energetic and dangerous core, powered up by capitalism shell, but not led by money only business value or logic.

China is positioning itself to achieve technological, scientific an product application innovation. China already leads in LED technology and products and is reputed to have powerful technology in lasers.

Countries like Australia will be left wallowing in China's wake as its innovation accelerates.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceibs/2014/09/19/chinas-many-types-of-innovation/#70136fa6fd07


Quote:

Product innovation: incremental to radical China has produced relatively few product innovations that are truly new to the world. But based on extensive experience with incremental innovations, Chinese companies are moving from incremental toward radical innovations.  Huawei is an example. It is starting to make radical innovations with its distributed base stations and its SingleRAN based LTE solution for mobile operators. Sanyi Heavy Industry Company, another example, produces the world’s most powerful crawler crane. Technological innovation: China’s dream China has yet to produce high-impact technology innovations with global significance. But we have seen examples of minor but world class technology being implemented to create innovations. We visited SVG Optronics, a start-up company that uses nanotechnology to create very thin films that provide hologram patterns that can be printed onto such things such as identity cards, and are very difficult to copy. As a result of this film, the Chinese identity card is now actually more secure than drivers’ licenses in Europe or the United States . Another company, Suzhou Nano-Micro BioTech, produces very, very small particles which are of uniform size and shape and tailored to the customer’s specific needs. There is a very high degree of precision in particle size and shape, which is very important for certain sophisticated applications ranging from LCD displays to high efficiency LEDs. Business model innovation: often copied and adapted In China, most business model innovation has started by taking a Western model, adapting it to China, then further innovating the adaptation.  Although Alibaba.com, for example, copied the eBay platform with its competing service Taobao, it quickly overtook eBay, based on its earlier B2B platform experience and innovations to suit the Chinese customer. Tencent, China’s largest Internet portal, experimented with multiple business models in order to monetize its products and it now generates most of its revenues through Internet value-added services. Like some foreign companies, such as Apple or Google, Tencent has created an ecosystem of service offerings centered on its QQ instant messaging service. For its instant messenger service QQ, Tencent did not copy global leader ICQ’s unprofitable business mode.  Instead, Tencent created a new business model that was the first to include advertising and that includes an ecosystem where it can monetize all the value-added services surrounding the free QQ instant messenger application. Non-customer innovation: huge opportunity Non-customer innovation occurs when a business is able to serve a customer segment not previously served in this category elsewhere in the world or in a particular country. An example is the Tata Nano car, designed at such a low price point as to serve first time auto buyers, who had previously used motorcycles or other modes. An even better example is Apple’s iPad, whose simplicity drew in many older users who had previously been unable to use more complex personal computers. China’s modern, market economy is so new that there are many non-customers to be tapped in almost every category. For example, in banking many small enterprises still have no bank accounts. Minsheng Bank succeeded in capturing small-sized companies’ business as a first mover to create a new segment. Chinese companies are adept at exploiting all of these forms of innovation, due to their relentless focus on customers, their search for unmet needs, and remarkable speed.  Competitors need to look well beyond technological innovation if they are to succeed in China.

Wall Street Jews.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 11:04am:

China is positioning itself to achieve technological, scientific an product application innovation. China already leads in LED technology and products and is reputed to have powerful technology in lasers. Countries like Australia will be left wallowing in China's wake as its innovation accelerates.

It doesn't take much to beat a country that is only good at making cups of coffee and mowing lawns.

It's ironical that Australia has had decades to get its act together on the innovation front but instead it just squandered it on flipping houses and relying on its good fortune in mining and agriculture.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 11:30am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 11:04am: China is positioning itself to achieve technological, scientific an product application innovation. China already leads in LED technology and products and is reputed to have powerful technology in lasers. Countries like Australia will be left wallowing in China's wake as its innovation accelerates. It doesn't take much to beat a country that is only good at making cups of coffee and mowing lawns. It's ironical that Australia has had decades to get its act together on the innovation front but instead it just squandered it on flipping houses and relying on its good fortune in mining and agriculture.

That's why its called the lucky country and its denizens  are called punters.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 1:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 11:30am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 11:04am: China is positioning itself to achieve technological, scientific an product application innovation. China already leads in LED technology and products and is reputed to have powerful technology in lasers. Countries like Australia will be left wallowing in China's wake as its innovation accelerates. It doesn't take much to beat a country that is only good at making cups of coffee and mowing lawns. It's ironical that Australia has had decades to get its act together on the innovation front but instead it just squandered it on flipping houses and relying on its good fortune in mining and agriculture. That's why its called the lucky country and its denizens  are called punters.

Much like yourself but with a slight spelling variation.

Gnads wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 1:19pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:03pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 11:30am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 11:04am: China is positioning itself to achieve technological, scientific an product application innovation. China already leads in LED technology and products and is reputed to have powerful technology in lasers. Countries like Australia will be left wallowing in China's wake as its innovation accelerates. It doesn't take much to beat a country that is only good at making cups of coffee and mowing lawns. It's ironical that Australia has had decades to get its act together on the innovation front but instead it just squandered it on flipping houses and relying on its good fortune in mining and agriculture. That's why its called the lucky country and its denizens  are called punters. Much like yourself but with a slight spelling variation.

Hunters?