Fruit and vegies: why do they cost so much, and who gets what?

Date
    January 17, 2016
    WA Today

If you've ever wondered how much the farmer gets for the fruit you're holding in your hand, orange growers want to tell you this summer they're getting very little or nothing at all.

A survey of the supply chain for six fresh foods found that shops get as high as a 76 per cent share of the final price while growers, especially of oranges and apples, feel the squeeze.   :(

Valencia orange grower Tania Chapman said she is getting 25¢ per kilogram, which barely cover her rising production costs. Others are getting as low as 17¢/kg and losing money.


"We're doing it tough. The cost of production is going through the roof, with fertilisers, with fuel, but our returns are going backwards," she said.

"The wholesalers are always going to make money, the retailer always get the biggest chunk. The prices are not changing at the shops, but the prices paid to us are going down."

Fairfax Media found the juicing oranges at three greengrocers for an average $3.82/kg, meaning, based on current wholesale prices, retailers were claiming about 65 per cent of the final price.
The prices of fruit and vegetables are determined by a basket of factors, with growers often getting only a small share of the retail price.

The prices of fruit and vegetables are determined by a basket of factors, with growers often getting only a small share of the retail price. Photo: Edwina Pickles

For granny smith apples, the wholesale price is $1.92/kg, compared with $4.82/kg at the shops, meaning retailers held a 60 per cent share of the retail price.

John Dollisson, chief executive of Apple and Pear Australia, said the average farm-gate price for all apple varieties last year was $2.57/kg while the retail price was $4.20/kg.

In terms of profitability, 2015 was one of the worst years on record, with some growers – like some of the valencia growers – unable to cover production costs, he said.

"We want to work with retailers much more closely to develop strategies that ensure a fair share of profits to both growers and retailers and, importantly, a fair price for consumers," he said.

Food market analyst Steve Spencer, of Freshagenda, warned against comparing farm-gate and retail prices, saying margins along the supply chain varied, especially for fruit, depending on the season and supply and demand.

The final shop price was largely based on affordability – what consumers were willing to pay. For common fruit, that typically hovered between $3 and $4 a kilogram, he said.

"Sure, there are growing costs, in some cases ripening costs, transport fees, some sort of market and distribution costs to a point of sale. It varies over the year depending on the volume of the fruit," he said.

"Vegetables prices are more stable because they typically have a shorter production, so it's easier for supply to be flattened out. They're reliably available for most of the year."

The supply chain survey found the greatest profit margins were in vegetables and herbs, with both a single continental cucumber and a coriander bunch selling for 50¢ wholesale and about $2 at the shops.

A Queensland cucumber grower said an oversupply in the past three to four months left many struggling to sell them for a healthy profit. Cheap prices meant consumers were the winners, he said.

Linda Snart, owner of Village Herb Farm which supplies the major supermarkets, said the real cost of producing fresh food was not reflected in the price consumers pay.

Production costs including irrigation, water and refrigeration, as well as freight and distribution costs, were large factors in determining the price of produce, but more so is the cost of labour along the supply chain, she said.

"It's a huge convenience to go up to a supermarket and be able to buy all [your produce] under one roof. Everything comes with a price," she said.

A bunch of three baby bok choys was 75¢ wholesale and $1.84 at retail, meaning shops were claiming a 59 per cent share of the shelf price.

A kilogram of button mushrooms was $6.50 wholesale and $12.15 at retail, meaning shops had a 47 per cent share.

Chris Cope, of the Sydney Market Reporting Service, which collects wholesale prices, said some growers, especially from the Sydney basin, bypassed merchants and sold their produce direct to retailers, getting a bigger slice of the price pie.

He also revealed two major mushroom growers shut down over the past year because they were not making any money. The sudden dip in supply saw mushroom wholesale prices peak, but it had since stabilised.

"The prices went through the roof about eight months ago. We hadn't seen prices like that for a long, long time, but it's stable at $6.50 now," he said.

Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply.

Try growing them yourself then.

it ain't that easy.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 10:28am:

Try growing them yourself then. it ain't that easy.

I perceived sprintcyclist's most prolific produce was sour grapes.

Another problem created by leftards

How you might ask?

Labor spent $15B+ on illegals in it's 6 years of government. In 2016 Australia is still paying for the ALP and Greens stupidity. Compare this to $200M by the Howard government.

This money could have been used on helping our farmers

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:09pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 10:28am: Try growing them yourself then. it ain't that easy. I perceived sprintcyclist's best produce was sour grapes.

sounds like you are the one with sour grapes you dickhead..

what happened... did ONE of your other sock get banned?

wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 9:40am:

Fruit and vegies: why do they cost so much, and who gets what?

did they mention PENALTY RATES?

only the poor bastard that grows the things doesnt get penalty rates.

Think about why consumers buy their petrol at $1.20 per litre, and while they are paying for their petrol, they buy a small 500ml bottle of water at $7 per litre. 

That should give you a clue - It's because consumers are stupid enough to pay that price.

I was initially upset at how high priced fruit was in the shops.
When I first started growing fruit the shop price was double my gate price.
Then over about 20 years the mark up went to about 600%

Then I worked out that I should sell the fruit direct to MY customers and things were going very well.
The higher the shop price the better.

I always maintained that growers should grow less fruit and sell more fruit,, that is spend time on the selling direct.

miketrees wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 7:15am:

When I first started growing fruit the shop price was double my gate price. Then over about 20 years the mark up went to about 600%

and therein lies the problem

The article doesn't seem to take into account the cost of running a supermarket, which would surely account for some of the mark-up.

miketrees wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 7:15am:

I was initially upset at how high priced fruit was in the shops. When I first started growing fruit the shop price was double my gate price. Then over about 20 years the mark up went to about 600% Then I worked out that I should sell the fruit direct to MY customers and things were going very well. The higher the shop price the better. I always maintained that growers should grow less fruit and sell more fruit,, that is spend time on the selling direct.

Good thinking

Wolseley wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 7:33pm:

The article doesn't seem to take into account the cost of running a supermarket, which would surely account for some of the mark-up.

yes, rents, wages, advertising.
It is big outgoings before you buy any stock.

I agree it costs a lot to run a shop and then there is shrinkage,,, where some fruit dies and gets thrown out.

Shops need to turn the fruit over faster, however when the fruit has no flavour, or its green the turnover dies and takes weeks to recover.
When I sold direct to a few shops their turnover increased 300% because I picked it right and I grew good varieties.

If the whole fruit growing industry had decent quality control then I believe they to would sell 300% more fruit.

Its been over 10 years now since I grew fruit,,, and just today there was a bloke at my wifes work that was begging us to go back to growing fruit.
That gave me a good feeling.

miketrees wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:10pm:

I agree it costs a lot to run a shop and then there is shrinkage,,, where some fruit dies and gets thrown out. Shops need to turn the fruit over faster, however when the fruit has no flavour, or its green the turnover dies and takes weeks to recover. When I sold direct to a few shops their turnover increased 300% because I picked it right and I grew good varieties. If the whole fruit growing industry had decent quality control then I believe they to would sell 300% more fruit. Its been over 10 years now since I grew fruit,,, and just today there was a bloke at my wifes work that was begging us to go back to growing fruit. That gave me a good feeling.

I have troubles growing almost anything.
Any tips?

Where are you, what do you want to grow?

brisbane, I have killed grevilleas, even a choko has perished under my torment

I accept your chalenge

Do they want water ever ?

Do they want water ever ?


I think I just found the problem

again, we can have a "better' form of capitalism ONLY when the CONSUMER changes his habits.

there is absolutley nothing stopping consumers going to farmers markets instead of to the Big 2.

if the consumer decides , by his own free will, to shop at the big 2, he bears the responsibilty for the consequences.

Whilst i am no expert on fruit and veges, my sense is that the farmers co ops will increasingly look to asian markets to make a profit.

In the same way that norco and bulla are gearing up to produce powdered milk and stop the $1 a litre loss leading of the big 2, i would imagine SPC /ardmona will gear up to produce a range of soft pack and long life high quality fruits to be sold into asia and bypass the price gouging.

in the end, the consumer will suffer , but as it is totally the fault of the consumer, this is well deserved suffering  ;) ;)

The consumer suffers because supermarkets have no capacity to look after customers, they never listen to quality issues.
They buy on price mainly and durability of the product.
Green tasteless product lasts a bit longer, less shrinkage.
Picking fruit green is cheaper for the grower, just rip them off the tree, never mind.
If you are getting paid low prices you have to cut costs

When I started selling direct, I had to pull some varieties out because the customers did not like them,,, and they let me know.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2016 at 7:54am:

again, we can have a "better' form of capitalism ONLY when the CONSUMER changes his habits. there is absolutley nothing stopping consumers going to farmers markets instead of to the Big 2. if the consumer decides , by his own free will, to shop at the big 2, he bears the responsibilty for the consequences. Whilst i am no expert on fruit and veges, my sense is that the farmers co ops will increasingly look to asian markets to make a profit. In the same way that norco and bulla are gearing up to produce powdered milk and stop the $1 a litre loss leading of the big 2, i would imagine SPC /ardmona will gear up to produce a range of soft pack and long life high quality fruits to be sold into asia and bypass the price gouging. in the end, the consumer will suffer , but as it is totally the fault of the consumer, this is well deserved suffering  ;) ;)

Sounds like horse sense from a demented clydesdale. Do horses practice ventriloquism on their servants?

miketrees wrote on Jan 21^st, 2016 at 3:12pm:

The consumer suffers because supermarkets have no capacity to look after customers, they never listen to quality issues. They buy on price mainly and durability of the product. Green tasteless product lasts a bit longer, less shrinkage. Picking fruit green is cheaper for the grower, just rip them off the tree, never mind. If you are getting paid low prices you have to cut costs When I started selling direct, I had to pull some varieties out because the customers did not like them,,, and they let me know.

and thats what stope the taste.. dont you think mike.. picking it early....it has no taste or smell...

as a kid I could smell the fruit and veggies just walking in the door..what we buy today is a disgrace.. and its not the farmers fault.. I hold the supermarkets to blame..we are sitting ducks..for badness.... we keep buying it and going back for more.....

why anyone thinks they grow fruit and veggies all year round I will never know.....my cherry tree has fruit on it for about 2 weeks..the rest of the year you wouldnt  it is fruit tree..

.the rest of the year you wouldnt  it is fruit tree..

Thats right, you have to be on your game growing fruit, stuff something up for a few days and you loose a year.

cods wrote on Jan 21^st, 2016 at 3:24pm:

as a kid I could smell the fruit and veggies just walking in the door..what we buy today is a disgrace.. and its not the farmers fault.. I hold the supermarkets to blame..we are sitting ducks..for badness.... we keep buying it and going back for more.....

You could always go to a decent fruit shop instead.  There are also quite a few "Farmer's Markets" in the suburbs where some of the produce at least appears to be direct from the growers.

Maqqa wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:13pm:

Another problem created by leftards How you might ask? Labor spent $15B+ on illegals in it's 6 years of government. In 2016 Australia is still paying for the ALP and Greens stupidity. Compare this to $200M by the Howard government. This money could have been used on helping our farmers

oops, forgot the $1Bn Howard spent on the so–called Pacific Solution? Tax payers’ money used in a pretend solution to help him win an election.

If you want cheaper, better, fresher food patronise Farmers Markets not “super”markets. Or grow it yourself.

John Smith wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 9:49am:

Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply.

Crap. Australia is a net food exporter. If this was true, the price being received by farmers would skyrocket.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:38am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 9:49am: Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply. Crap. Australia is a net food exporter. If this was true, the price being received by farmers would skyrocket.

Net food exporter? I'm not talking sheep and cattle here.
A lot of our traditional crops are being dug out because the farmers can't compete with cheaper imports.

John Smith wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 9:49am: Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply. Crap. Australia is a net food exporter. If this was true, the price being received by farmers would skyrocket. Net food exporter? I'm not talking sheep and cattle here. A lot of our traditional crops are being dug out because the farmers can't compete with cheaper imports.

Gumnuts?

John Smith wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 9:49am: Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply. Crap. Australia is a net food exporter. If this was true, the price being received by farmers would skyrocket. Net food exporter? I'm not talking sheep and cattle here. A lot of our traditional crops are being dug out because the farmers can't compete with cheaper imports.

It is still crap. If demand is higher than they can supply, the price goes up. And if it is the supply at the farm gate that is insufficient, it is the price at the farm gate that will go up.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:40am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 9:49am: Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply. Crap. Australia is a net food exporter. If this was true, the price being received by farmers would skyrocket. Net food exporter? I'm not talking sheep and cattle here. A lot of our traditional crops are being dug out because the farmers can't compete with cheaper imports. It is still crap. If demand is higher than they can supply, the price goes up. And if it is the supply at the farm gate that is insufficient, it is the price at the farm gate that will go up.

the market was/is being flooded by cheaper foreign grown produce and local producers found they were cut out of the local market altogether. They close down the farms and now what local producers remain, can't meet demand. Supermarkets then ask for import regulations be relaxed so they can flood the market further. It's a continuous spiral that will only end when there are no local producers left.  Then we can sell the farms to foreign multinationals who are backed by THEIR governments and don't mind if they lose money for a few years, because they're looking at longer term goals

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:40am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:38am: John Smith wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 9:49am: Oranges this year are ridiculously expensive. Why? Because the big 2 have over the years forced the closure of most of our orchards with cheap imports, so now demand is much much higher than they can supply. Crap. Australia is a net food exporter. If this was true, the price being received by farmers would skyrocket. Net food exporter? I'm not talking sheep and cattle here. A lot of our traditional crops are being dug out because the farmers can't compete with cheaper imports. It is still crap. If demand is higher than they can supply, the price goes up. And if it is the supply at the farm gate that is insufficient, it is the price at the farm gate that will go up.

In a totally free market maybe, but in Australia we don't have a free market, the duopoly that is coles and woolies sets the price and you play by their rules or shut shop.

Without competition from imports fruit and vegetable prices would be much higher.

Some of our "real" Aussie unemployed could check out this site .... IF they really want to work. You can even get some of your Centrelink payments, etc. provided you are HONEST.

http://www.fruitpickingjobs.com.au/

NOBODY should be unemployed because they "don't qualify" for a job. Mostly, the problem is that "they" don't WANT TO WORK.

Neferti wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 4:55pm:

Some of our "real" Aussie unemployed could check out this site .... IF they really want to work. You can even get some of your Centrelink payments, etc. provided you are HONEST. http://www.fruitpickingjobs.com.au/ NOBODY should be unemployed because they "don't qualify" for a job. Mostly, the problem is that "they" don't WANT TO WORK.

Closet poms are seeking nose picking jobs. Any leads?

http://www.fruitpickingjobs.com.au/

That site wants money,,, before you can see jobs,I hate that.

Quote:

the market was/is being flooded by cheaper foreign grown produce and local producers found they were cut out of the local market altogether. They close down the farms and now what local producers remain, can't meet demand.

More crap. If the demand was still there, they would get higher prices and not close the farms. Farmers to not get together and try to all go broke at the same time so that the market goes from oversupply and low prices to undersupply and high prices with no-one actually growing anything.


Quote:

It's a continuous spiral

of BS.


Quote:

In a totally free market maybe, but in Australia we don't have a free market, the duopoly

We are very far from a true duopoly. Imagine if coles and woolies ran out of a fruit under your fairy tale scenario, and the few remaining farmers only sold to IGA because they offered a better price.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:08pm:

If the demand was still there, they would get higher prices and not close the farms.

you're not listening ... the dupopoloy won't pay their prices regardless If they did they'd have to settle for a 200% mark up instead of 600% ... we still pay $6 kg for tomatoes from buggeroffistan that they purchase for .20c kg and the duopoly uses this as an excuse to petition govt. to further relax import restrictions, which in turn leads to more farms closing down.

If you don't think the duopoly are screwing down prices paid at the gate I can't help you.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:08pm:

We are very far from a true duopoly.

but in the middle of a virtual duopoly

Quote:

you're not listening ... the dupopoloy won't pay their prices regardless If they did they'd have to settle for a 200% mark up instead of 600% ... we still pay $6 kg for tomatoes from buggeroffistan that they purchase for .20c kg and the duopoly uses this as an excuse to petition govt. to further relax import restrictions, which in turn leads to more farms closing down.

I am listening. I am still waiting for you to explain what happens when they cannot meet demand (as you claimed), and IGA, ALDI, and all the little guys buy up all the produce from the farmers at a slightly higher price and suddenly coles and woolies cannot even stock a basic food item that the other shops are selling. Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices?


Quote:

but in the middle of a virtual duopoly

Would you settle for an imaginary duopoly?

Quote:

I am listening. I am still waiting for you to explain what happens when they cannot meet demand (as you claimed), and IGA, ALDI, and all the little guys buy up all the produce from the farmers at a slightly higher price and suddenly coles and woolies cannot even stock a basic food item that the other shops are selling. Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices?

Ha.  Uber.  But I never hear from you on that topic.

I haven't gotten round to using it yet Aussie. But it sounds great. Thanks for asking. I would be willing to tolerate compensation to cabbies for the licences they bought if the laws get changed to make uber legal.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:22pm:

I haven't gotten round to using it yet Aussie. But it sounds great. Thanks for asking. I would be willing to tolerate compensation to cabbies for the licences they bought if the laws get changed to make uber legal.

Jolly decent of you Old Chap.  But, you did not clarify the fundamental problem in your position.


Quote:

Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices?

The answer to that is 'yes,' as it describes to a 't' the 'disruptive' Uber model.

Ah, so coles and woolies are behaving like uber? Would you mind expanding on this analogy?

In answer to the original question, fruit and veges are dirt cheap. You can grow your own for free. You can buy in season fruit and veges for next to nothing. But if you live in Darwin and eat apples instead of mangoes, expect to pay for the service you are being provided - and a lot more than what the apple farmer gets for his contribution. But they are still dirt cheap.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:38pm:

Ah, so coles and woolies are behaving like uber? Would you mind expanding on this analogy?

No.  You posted this.


Quote:

all the little guys buy up all the produce from the farmers at a slightly higher price and suddenly coles and woolies cannot even stock a basic food item that the other shops are selling. Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices?

That is what Uber does.  Arrive.....make big announcements which are all smoke/mirror bullshit.....boast about how successful it is...........and demand that Governments make them legal when they clearly are not.  They aren't 'taxis.'  They are 'ride sharers.'  They don't have drivers...they have 'partners.' 

If you think fruits and vegetables cost too much - don't elect them   :D ;D ;) 8-) ::)

Aussie wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:38pm: Ah, so coles and woolies are behaving like uber? Would you mind expanding on this analogy? No.  You posted this. Quote: all the little guys buy up all the produce from the farmers at a slightly higher price and suddenly coles and woolies cannot even stock a basic food item that the other shops are selling. Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices? That is what Uber does.  Arrive.....make big announcements which are all smoke/mirror bullshit.....boast about how successful it is...........and demand that Governments make them legal when they clearly are not.  They aren't 'taxis.'  They are 'ride sharers.'  They don't have drivers...they have 'partners.'

Agreed.  Public transport needs to be under regulation and not open to any person wanting to drive.... that's what you get in Fiji... 'taxis' are anyone with a vehicle who can afford the petrol...

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:40pm:

In answer to the original question, fruit and veges are dirt cheap. You can grow your own for free. You can buy in season fruit and veges for next to nothing. But if you live in Darwin and eat apples instead of mangoes, expect to pay for the service you are being provided - and a lot more than what the apple farmer gets for his contribution. But they are still dirt cheap.

I grow much of my own - cheap as and far better tasting..... has to be healthier than buying stuff stored for ages before you get it...

Well I think it really does depend on where and how you choose to shop, and what you eat.
Not being a 'gardener' as such, altho I still manage to grow some herbs and spices, I don't grow much food.
I buy my meat and vege, normally at locally sourced outlets. I really dislike shopping at supermarkets, but I do sometimes, for convenience. It really comes down to personal choice,  or habits ,  or laziness, ignorance or attitude.

Woolies  ?? the only supermarket within 15 klms, is so disgusting.   :( As a little outpost, the produce here is often old, and often unfit for sale.
Ever travelled through southern NSW.? Around oh I don't know,  north of Jerilderie. That is where all the Woolies stuff is warehoused and shipped from. Oh  I can look it up on a recent purchase I made,   :-[ BUT anyhow,  you see the incredible sight of an absolutely massive warehouse slowly approach, as you motor along at 100+ kph. First time I drove past I was gob-smacked.

The trucks out there are just amazing.. you can see them coming for literally  minutes before they get close, it is SO FLAT.

Here 'tis
1 Woolworths Way
Bella Vista NSW 2153. 

THERE is nothing around except the flat lands of the Riverina, and mirages. Well that was about 8 yrs ago, but things don't change much out there. Except the appearance of this huge warehouse.
Hmm must look it up on Google Earth.

It is amazing to me, that produce all travels there, first, from wherever,  before being distributed, often back to very close to where it was produced.

Sounds crazy eh.?

:-?

Let them eat cake!

hah that's just what's happening. So much processed garbage, like cake.....no wonder there is an obesity epidemic/pandemic. ::)

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:40pm:

In answer to the original question, fruit and veges are dirt cheap. You can grow your own for free. You can buy in season fruit and veges for next to nothing. But if you live in Darwin and eat apples instead of mangoes, expect to pay for the service you are being provided - and a lot more than what the apple farmer gets for his contribution. But they are still dirt cheap.

No. They're not.

I was at the checkout the other week and the woman in front of me had a trolley over-filled with packages, soft drinks, frozen foods etc. Not a fruit or a vegetable in it. Seriously. the trolley was heaped high.

I was behind her with mostly fruits and vegies. Sure i had some olive oil and coffee beans, big ticket items but it was mostly fruit and vegoes, rice, pasta, milk, cheese, eggs.

She had nothing fresh.

She paid $145.

I paid $270. And my trolley wasn't full.

And i shop seasonally.

Aussie wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:38pm: Ah, so coles and woolies are behaving like uber? Would you mind expanding on this analogy? No.  You posted this. Quote: all the little guys buy up all the produce from the farmers at a slightly higher price and suddenly coles and woolies cannot even stock a basic food item that the other shops are selling. Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices? That is what Uber does.  Arrive.....make big announcements which are all smoke/mirror bullshit.....boast about how successful it is...........and demand that Governments make them legal when they clearly are not.  They aren't 'taxis.'  They are 'ride sharers.'  They don't have drivers...they have 'partners.'

Ah, so people only ask the government to make things legal if they are illegal?


mothra wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 2:21am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:40pm: In answer to the original question, fruit and veges are dirt cheap. You can grow your own for free. You can buy in season fruit and veges for next to nothing. But if you live in Darwin and eat apples instead of mangoes, expect to pay for the service you are being provided - and a lot more than what the apple farmer gets for his contribution. But they are still dirt cheap. No. They're not. I was at the checkout the other week and the woman in front of me had a trolley over-filled with packages, soft drinks, frozen foods etc. Not a fruit or a vegetable in it. Seriously. the trolley was heaped high. I was behind her with mostly fruits and vegies. Sure i had some olive oil and coffee beans, big ticket items but it was mostly fruit and vegoes, rice, pasta, milk, cheese, eggs. She had nothing fresh. She paid $145. I paid $270. And my trolley wasn't full.

Are you attempting to disagree with me? Some things to consider:

Her trolley was over-filled with packages, not food. If you took away the packaging, you probably had a lot more food.

Coffee, olive oil, cheese etc are expensive. If you took away the expensive items, your bill would probably have been less.

Cheese, rice, pasta etc are very dense food items.

Did you have any fresh, local, in season veges? Things like corn, potatoes and whatever fruit they grow locally will be dirt cheap at times. Coles and woolies may not pass the savings on to you, but they often do. But if you buy out of season cherries and goji berries you can indeed spend a fortune and come away without much food. I have never paid $270 for one grocery trip before.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:04pm:

I am still waiting for you to explain what happens when they cannot meet demand (as you claimed), and IGA, ALDI, and all the little guys buy up all the produce from the farmers at a slightly higher price and suddenly coles and woolies cannot even stock a basic food item that the other shops are selling. Do you think they click their fingers and get the laws changed overnight, on the same night all the farmers go broke at the same time, before anyone notices?

they don't go looking to Australian farmers if they can avoid it ... they send their buyers from china to brazil to some other 3rd world sh1t hole until they find it elsewhere. If they run out in the meantime, they don't stock it.

They don't need to change the rules overnight, they often keep their produce in cold storage for 6 to 12 months. The food they sell you today at todays prices they bought last year at last years prices ... meanwhile they use todays  prices to scare the govt. into relaxing legislation.


freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:04pm:

Would you settle for an imaginary duopoly?

nothing imaginary about it. They control over 3/4's of the market in this country. If you don't think that gives them an unfair advantage than I can't help you.

Quote:

Ah, so people only ask the government to make things legal if they are illegal?

In the case of Uber, the one word answer is...yes.

Quote:

they don't go looking to Australian farmers if they can avoid it

Like when they are unable to supply demand? Or are you saying they are racist and would undermine their business to fulfill their racism?


Quote:

If they run out in the meantime, they don't stock it.

So they are so racist they would rather not stock an item than buy it from local farmers?


Quote:

nothing imaginary about it. They control over 3/4's of the market in this country. If you don't think that gives them an unfair advantage than I can't help you.

It gives them an aweful lot to lose to the companies carving out the other 1/4.


Quote:

In the case of Uber, the one word answer is...yes.

Are you sure Aussie? Is it only in the case of uber?

Quote:

Are you sure Aussie? Is it only in the case of uber?

Questions....questions....always with the questions, you are.  How about you get off the fence, and either announce your position or answer questions put to you?

Count the question marks in your last post.

In four posts, five question marks.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 3:47pm:

Like when they are unable to supply demand? Or are you saying they are racist and would undermine their business to fulfill their racism?

racist? ... they're looking at their long term goals, that's all ... if creating a shortage means they get import restrictions eased further down the track, they'd be all to happy to do it. I know I would if I were in their position.

As for undermining their business, they do it all the time. Just up the road from me is a Coles. They are building a new Coles approx. 400m further up the road. When the manager was asked if they would shut down the first store once the new one opened, a staff member was told that they would keep both going, even if it meant one would lose money. Their reason? They didn't want to leave the space vacant for a competitor to take up.

You don't think that's undermining their business FD? Knowingly running a store at a loss? It's a loss they are prepared to take for the long term benefits. Same rule applies to their freezing out aussie farmers, they're prepared to take short term losses, if it means bigger profits long term.

Quote:

if creating a shortage means

It isn't a shortage if ALDI, IGA etc are stocking them. Remember, this is all down to your fantasy of farmers going out of business at the same time as there being unmeetable demand for their product.

John Smith wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 3:47pm: Like when they are unable to supply demand? Or are you saying they are racist and would undermine their business to fulfill their racism? racist? ... they're looking at their long term goals, that's all ... if creating a shortage means they get import restrictions eased further down the track, they'd be all to happy to do it. I know I would if I were in their position. As for undermining their business, they do it all the time. Just up the road from me is a Coles. They are building a new Coles approx. 400m further up the road. When the manager was asked if they would shut down the first store once the new one opened, a staff member was told that they would keep both going, even if it meant one would lose money. Their reason? They didn't want to leave the space vacant for a competitor to take up. You don't think that's undermining their business FD? Knowingly running a store at a loss? It's a loss they are prepared to take for the long term benefits. Same rule applies to their freezing out aussie farmers, they're prepared to take short term losses, if it means bigger profits long term.

Same thing Uber does.  It is losing money hand over fist.....even says so in its Prospectus.   All the grubs want to do is create a false market or manipulate (disrupt) the market, and then go public...rake in investor Mums and Dads who will go broke.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:13pm:

It isn't a shortage if ALDI, IGA etc are stocking them.

are they?

John Smith wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 4:13pm: It isn't a shortage if ALDI, IGA etc are stocking them. are they?

Are you asking me to provide evidence on the finer details of your fantasy? I am not criticising your argument because the evidence isn't there. I am criticising it because it makes no sense.

If you were running ALDI, IGA, or one of the many smaller grocers, and you noticed coles and woolies were not stocking an in-demand item despite farmers having some to sell to you, what would you do?

no, I'm asking you to prove the finer details of your fantasy ... afterall, you claimed the were stocking things that Coles and woolies weren't .

By the way, I never said that Aldi and Metcash weren't a party to the same tactics used by the big two ...

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Quote: Are you sure Aussie? Is it only in the case of uber? Questions....questions....always with the questions, you are.  How about you get off the fence, and either announce your position or answer questions put to you? Count the question marks in your last post. In four posts, five question marks.

You should get off this thread, arsie and stop making everything about YOU ... this thread is about FRUIT AND VEGIES and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with UBER or taxi drivers. So POQ. ;D

Neferti wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 4:00pm: Quote: Are you sure Aussie? Is it only in the case of uber? Questions....questions....always with the questions, you are.  How about you get off the fence, and either announce your position or answer questions put to you? Count the question marks in your last post. In four posts, five question marks. You should get off this thread, arsie and stop making everything about YOU ... this thread is about FRUIT AND VEGIES and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with UBER or taxi drivers. So POQ. ;D

Go away Nappy.  The adults are talking.

John Smith wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:28pm:

no, I'm asking you to prove the finer details of your fantasy ... afterall, you claimed the were stocking things that Coles and woolies weren't .

What things are we talking about? You brought it up. You said coles and woolies were not stocking 'things' despite there being demand for them. You can substitute any item you want and your argument would still be stupid.


Quote:

By the way, I never said that Aldi and Metcash weren't a party to the same tactics used by the big two ...

;D

So now it's a four party duopoly, with Aldi and IGA conspiring to maintain the larger market share held by coles and woolies?

Neferti wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 4:00pm: Quote: Are you sure Aussie? Is it only in the case of uber? Questions....questions....always with the questions, you are.  How about you get off the fence, and either announce your position or answer questions put to you? Count the question marks in your last post. In four posts, five question marks. You should get off this thread, arsie and stop making everything about YOU ... this thread is about FRUIT AND VEGIES and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with UBER or taxi drivers. So POQ. ;D

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:

You said coles and woolies were not stocking 'things' despite there being demand for them

yes ... and YOU said that Aldi and Metcash were ... I merely asked you if they really were? Is your comment true or did you make it up?


freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:

So now it's a four party duopoly, with Aldi and IGA conspiring to maintain the larger market share held by coles and woolies?

I said it was a virtual duopoly. Are you suggesting that Aldi and IGA aren't benefiting from the big twos push to ease import restrictions?

By the way, I didn't mention market share, you did. I said profits.

Fruit And Vegies - Why Do They Cost So Much?

In a nut shell....!!!!

Because corporations run Australia and our governments are nothing more than well payed CEO's.

I know in the Perth markets at Canning Vale some time ago now,,, but if the supermarkets did not buy at one market they knew they would get stuff cheap at the next market.

miketrees wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 5:34pm:

I know in the Perth markets at Canning Vale some time ago now,,, but if the supermarkets did not buy at one market they knew they would get stuff cheap at the next market.

That's what happens when governments allow monopolies.

How's that crook of a premier Colin Barnett going over there, still calling for a rise in the GST to help pay off WA's $30+ billion dollar debt....?

It amazes me that WA has had boom times for the last 15 years or so and its finds itself in $30+ BILLION dollar debt.

Just shows this form of capitalism lets the few hoard the wealth at the expense of the many.

Fruit And Vegies - Why Do They Cost So Much?

I don't think fruit and vegies are expensive at all.  If they were any cheaper the remaining farmers in Australia would starve.

Look at what you buy and buy Australian.

If you are worried about cost,  plant some vegies.  Fruit not so much but anyone can plant vegie staples,  even in a small yard.

Quote:

yes ... and YOU said that Aldi and Metcash were ... I merely asked you if they really were? Is your comment true or did you make it up?

You made it up. It is your fantasy. Whatever it is, their competitors would stock it. Let you imagination run wild. It can be anything you want it to be.


Quote:

I said it was a virtual duopoly.

With 4 big players and many smaller ones?


Quote:

Are you suggesting that Aldi and IGA aren't benefiting from the big twos push to ease import restrictions?

I am saying they would take advantage of any of the self destructive tactics you attribute to coles and woolies in your little fantasy.


Quote:

By the way, I didn't mention market share, you did. I said profits.

And how do you think IGA and ALDI and the smaller players expect to increase profits?

Nobody seems to have explained so far how come fruit and vegetables are roughly about the same price in Coles, Woolworths, IGA, Aldi, fruit and vegetable chains (such as Trims) and small family run businesses.  If charging excessive markups is the cause, as has been suggested, how come Coles and Woolworths aren't charging the consumer two or three times as much as anyone else?

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

Nobody seems to have explained so far how come fruit and vegetables are roughly about the same price in Coles, Woolworths, IGA, Aldi, fruit and vegetable chains (such as Trims) and small family run businesses.  If charging excessive markups is the cause, as has been suggested, how come Coles and Woolworths aren't charging the consumer two or three times as much as anyone else?

Because (a) they want to screw their competition and (b) pay (screw) the farmer SFA in the process.

I do often buy fruit and veges at much lower prices at alternative shops, when it is available. The reason coles and woolies charge more is because they are not selling fruit and veges. They are selling a service. You can walk in there and find the same fruit and veg all year round, all ready to eat, or close enough. That sort of thing takes a lot of effort. People bitch about the price. The farmers bitch about only getting a fraction of it. But at the end of the day people want that convenience, and are willing to pay for it.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 8:40pm:

I do often buy fruit and veges at much lower prices at alternative shops, when it is available. The reason coles and woolies charge more is because they are not selling fruit and veges. They are selling a service. You can walk in there and find the same fruit and veg all year round, all ready to eat, or close enough. That sort of thing takes a lot of effort. People bitch about the price. The farmers bitch about only getting a fraction of it. But at the end of the day people want that convenience, and are willing to pay for it.

Yadda yadda.  But, how can the poor bastard who works 12 hours a day producing the stuff get ahead while Coles/Woolworths are controlling the price structure.  What should they do.  Perhaps not grow anything.  Starve the Nation and go personally broke in the process.

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm: Nobody seems to have explained so far how come fruit and vegetables are roughly about the same price in Coles, Woolworths, IGA, Aldi, fruit and vegetable chains (such as Trims) and small family run businesses.  If charging excessive markups is the cause, as has been suggested, how come Coles and Woolworths aren't charging the consumer two or three times as much as anyone else? Because (a) they want to screw their competition and (b) pay (screw) the farmer SFA in the process.

I don't doubt that Coles and Woolworths are able to exercise undue influence in the fruit and vegetable retail sector, and we all know they beat down the wholesale price to an unrealistically low level.  But, given that between them, they have captured 54% of retail fruit and vegetable market, or just slightly over half, why are the retail operations of the other 46% having no noticeable effect?

(double post)

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 8:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 8:34pm: Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm: Nobody seems to have explained so far how come fruit and vegetables are roughly about the same price in Coles, Woolworths, IGA, Aldi, fruit and vegetable chains (such as Trims) and small family run businesses.  If charging excessive markups is the cause, as has been suggested, how come Coles and Woolworths aren't charging the consumer two or three times as much as anyone else? Because (a) they want to screw their competition and (b) pay (screw) the farmer SFA in the process. I don't doubt that Coles and Woolworths are able to exercise undue influence in the fruit and vegetable retail sector, and we all know they beat down the wholesale price to an unrealistically low level.  But, given that between them, they have captured 54% of retail fruit and vegetable market, or just slightly over half, why are the retail operations of the other 46% having no noticeable effect?

Because, as FD points out, people go to Coles/Woolworths....and as a result, they tell the producer what he will get for his product.  There is only one way to break the cycle.  Farmers go on strike, screw themselves financially...and starve the population.

Coles and woolies are not controlling the price structure. If he doesn't like what coles and woolies are offering, he can go to ALDI, IGA, one of the smaller operators, or sell it himself on the side of the road.

At the end of the day, the price is going to drop until there are only just enough farmers to supply what is needed, at a price for which it is only marginally worth it for some of the farmers. This is true of all commodity business, and close enough to true for the rest of them. If the farmers don't like it, they should leave the industry, and then the price will go up for the rest of the farmers.

The people who are really screwing our farmers are all the other farmers who stay in the game because to them it is more than a business, it is a lifestyle. When you say that they cannot compete with foreign farmers working for 50c a day, the corollary of this is that there are other industries in Australia who would be willing to pay them more for their efforts. That is what it really means to be unable to compete - they cannot live a typical lavish Australian lifestyle while doing the same thing for a living that people in the third world can do for next to nothing. They should not expect to. We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change.

Quote:

We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change.

I suppose one day when I am long gone, the citizens of the World will be hard wired to drips, not even moving out of bed for either food or a crap.....zombie like...watching whatever is coming to replace TV/www/computers........perhaps even buying babies generated from our DNA by some weird yet to be invented process.

Jolly, isn't it.

Strange isnt it. In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.  regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving.

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:05pm:

Quote: We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change. I suppose one day when I am long gone, the citizens of the World will be hard wired to drips, not even moving out of bed for either food or a crap.....zombie like...watching whatever is coming to replace TV/www/computers........perhaps even buying babies generated from our DNA by some weird yet to be invented process. Jolly, isn't it.

You just like this version because Uber will be broke.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:05pm: Quote: We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change. I suppose one day when I am long gone, the citizens of the World will be hard wired to drips, not even moving out of bed for either food or a crap.....zombie like...watching whatever is coming to replace TV/www/computers........perhaps even buying babies generated from our DNA by some weird yet to be invented process. Jolly, isn't it. You just like this version because Uber will be broke.

No.  I was projecting your dumb arse "We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change," and you don't like the image.

Change/growth as Dick Smith says....is not per se a good thing.  I think I'll become a Marxist like Marla.

Quote:

Change/growth as Dick Smith says....is not per se a good thing.

Did I claim it was Aussie?

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

Nobody seems to have explained so far how come fruit and vegetables are roughly about the same price in Coles, Woolworths, IGA, Aldi, fruit and vegetable chains (such as Trims) and small family run businesses.  If charging excessive markups is the cause, as has been suggested, how come Coles and Woolworths aren't charging the consumer two or three times as much as anyone else?

Well, you can certainly find local produce at two to three times less costly than major chains. I might have to travel 15 klms to get it, as an alternative,  but it is worth it, because the produce is so much fresher, the variety greater, and the local super butcher next door is also heaps cheaper than buying meat at the big guys. Plus there is no where else in between.

What I can buy there, compared to Woolies, for the same food stuffs, basically is usually at least half the price.. or twice the stuff, depending on how you look at it. :)

The main thing I buy from Woolies is cheap dog bicks and they DO have a few good deals worth shopping there, now and then. I usually coincide such visits with other purposes,  like taking books back to the library,  going to the doc or whatever.  :)

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:31pm:

Quote: Change/growth as Dick Smith says....is not per se a good thing. Did I claim it was Aussie?

Soooooo.....why did you post this:


Quote:

We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change.

ian wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:34pm:

Strange isnt it. In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.  regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving.

Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China.

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:31pm: Quote: Change/growth as Dick Smith says....is not per se a good thing. Did I claim it was Aussie? Soooooo.....why did you post this: [quote]We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change.

[/quote]

It seems fairly self explanatory to me Aussie. If you are unsure, check the context.

How can I put it more simply? Don't fear change.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:46pm: freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:31pm: Quote: Change/growth as Dick Smith says....is not per se a good thing. Did I claim it was Aussie? Soooooo.....why did you post this: [quote]We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change.

It seems fairly self explanatory to me Aussie. If you are unsure, check the context.

How can I put it more simply? Don't fear change.[/quote]

Okay.  I'm/we are.... on a merry-go-round.  Re wind to here..............


Quote:

I suppose one day when I am long gone, the citizens of the World will be hard wired to drips, not even moving out of bed for either food or a crap.....zombie like...watching whatever is coming to replace TV/www/computers........perhaps even buying babies generated from our DNA by some weird yet to be invented process.

Jolly, isn't it.

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. Quote: In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.   regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China.

A comment for both of you.
Bananas are becoming harder and harder to grow due to a virus(?) or something, which is rapidly invading banana crops world-wide. We  remain relatively unaffected, but don't expect that to last. Enjoy'm while you can.

Always check the labels, and do your best to buy Australian product.  I know it is hard these days, when virtually everything comes from China.


Also, buying from op shops for clothes etc, is an excellent idea.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

Coles and woolies are not controlling the price structure. If he doesn't like what coles and woolies are offering, he can go to ALDI, IGA, one of the smaller operators, or sell it himself on the side of the road. At the end of the day, the price is going to drop until there are only just enough farmers to supply what is needed, at a price for which it is only marginally worth it for some of the farmers. This is true of all commodity business, and close enough to true for the rest of them. If the farmers don't like it, they should leave the industry, and then the price will go up for the rest of the farmers. The people who are really screwing our farmers are all the other farmers who stay in the game because to them it is more than a business, it is a lifestyle. When you say that they cannot compete with foreign farmers working for 50c a day, the corollary of this is that there are other industries in Australia who would be willing to pay them more for their efforts. That is what it really means to be unable to compete - they cannot live a typical lavish Australian lifestyle while doing the same thing for a living that people in the third world can do for next to nothing. They should not expect to. We did not get where we are today by being afraid of change.

In the long run the return to the least efficient farmers will approach zero while the most efficient will have a satisfactory return. The problem as described above is some people are prepared to work for nothing and pervert the business by causing prices to be lower than they would be if the uneconomic producers got out of the business.

Quote:

In the long run the return to the least efficient farmers will approach zero while the most efficient will have a satisfactory return. The problem as described above is some people are prepared to work for nothing and pervert the business by causing prices to be lower than they would be if the uneconomic producers got out of the business.

Rubbish.  The Coles/Wollies buyers from producers are out there, controlling the market.....like this.

Coles:  "I'll give you ten cents."..............and sell at 100 cents.

Woolies:  "I'll give you ten cents."..............and sell at 100 cents.

IGA:  "I'll give you twelve cents" ................ and sell at 100 cents.

Who is screwing who?

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.  regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China.

I agree, but I dont buy their tinned or processed stuff, only the fresh veges and fruit. Its all locally sourced and cheaper .

ian wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:24pm:

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:49pm: ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.  regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China. I agree, but I dont buy their tinned or processed stuff, only the fresh veges and fruit. Its all locally sourced and cheaper .

I was talking about fresh mushrooms.

Emma wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:59pm:

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:49pm: ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. Quote: In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.   regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China. A comment for both of you. Bananas are becoming harder and harder to grow due to a virus(?) or something, which is rapidly invading banana crops world-wide. We  remain relatively unaffected, but don't expect that to last. Enjoy'm while you can. Always check the labels, and do your best to buy Australian product.  I know it is hard these days, when virtually everything comes from China. Also, buying from op shops for clothes etc, is an excellent idea.

I wouldnt be caught dead in an op shop.

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:27pm:

ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 11:24pm: Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:49pm: ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.  regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China. I agree, but I dont buy their tinned or processed stuff, only the fresh veges and fruit. Its all locally sourced and cheaper . I was talking about fresh mushrooms.

Never seen any lables on the fresh stuff. anyway, eat a lot of bok choy, chinese spinach, papaya that sort of stuff. 

ian wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:27pm:

I wouldnt be caught dead in an op shop.

I was in the local Vinnie's earlier this week.  I was dropping off a couple of bags of clothing rather than buying anything though.

ian wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:27pm:

Emma wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:59pm: Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:49pm: ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. Quote: In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.   regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China. A comment for both of you. Bananas are becoming harder and harder to grow due to a virus(?) or something, which is rapidly invading banana crops world-wide. We  remain relatively unaffected, but don't expect that to last. Enjoy'm while you can. Always check the labels, and do your best to buy Australian product.  I know it is hard these days, when virtually everything comes from China. Also, buying from op shops for clothes etc, is an excellent idea. I wouldnt be caught dead in an op shop.

Good for finding work clothes for the garden etc...

Wolseley wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:57pm:

ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 11:27pm: I wouldnt be caught dead in an op shop. I was in the local Vinnie's earlier this week.  I was dropping off a couple of bags of clothing rather than buying anything though.

Ah yes!   Right you are, Guv!  I'm giving away heaps of furniture etc and heading into retirement.... better than dead men's stuff....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 12:16am:

ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 11:27pm: Emma wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:59pm: Wolseley wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 10:49pm: ian wrote on Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:34pm: Strange isnt it. Quote: In Jakarta you cannot buy a local banana  in the supermarkets. They are all imported from Australia and expensive to boot.   regardless, when in Australia i make sure to buy whatever fruit and vegetables from local small sellers. Asian food suppliers mainly, they source locally so you know you are supporting the small business owner. These places seem to be thriving. Don't forget to check the labels though - A lot of the mushrooms sold in Asian stores in Sydney come from China. A comment for both of you. Bananas are becoming harder and harder to grow due to a virus(?) or something, which is rapidly invading banana crops world-wide. We  remain relatively unaffected, but don't expect that to last. Enjoy'm while you can. Always check the labels, and do your best to buy Australian product.  I know it is hard these days, when virtually everything comes from China. Also, buying from op shops for clothes etc, is an excellent idea. I wouldnt be caught dead in an op shop. Good for finding work clothes for the garden etc...

i just use my old clothes. Im all for recycling but i do not like to wear 2nd hand clothes.

well I wouldn't buy undies or socks, butop shops are an excellent source of good quality items,   or dog blankets, or whatever.

You would be surprised what you see,  and gawd,  I'd feel pretty fos if I couldn't wear secondhand clothes. Ever heard of hand me downs.. No?  Too entitled are we?
Recycling, re-using..?
Besides things were made better in the past, and you find more Australian made clothes there than you'd think. Why spend money on chinese imports, when far superior goods are available for next to nothing.!!
:)
You know clothes CAN be washed and re-used don't you.?  ::)

so  fruit and veg only cost heaps if you buy from Woolies, or other big supermarkets. That is so obvious it need not be repeated.
yOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

You know if the quality from coles & woollies was great I wouldn't complain.

But nobody has mentioned that their fruits ripen in their fridges or you have to leave them ripen on your kitchen table.

For example even the best and most expensive tomatoes from these places taste pretty average.

A tomato from my garden can be eaten like an apple, just pick it wash it and I sprinkle some salt not much on it when I cut it into wedges.

You cannot do that with a tomato from the supermarkets.

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:07pm:

Quote: In the long run the return to the least efficient farmers will approach zero while the most efficient will have a satisfactory return. The problem as described above is some people are prepared to work for nothing and pervert the business by causing prices to be lower than they would be if the uneconomic producers got out of the business. Rubbish.  The Coles/Wollies buyers from producers are out there, controlling the market.....like this. Coles:  "I'll give you ten cents."..............and sell at 100 cents. Woolies:  "I'll give you ten cents."..............and sell at 100 cents. IGA:  "I'll give you twelve cents" ................ and sell at 100 cents. Who is screwing who?

You realise that Bunnings, David Jones, MacDonalds and just about every other retailer works on the same principle? It is like you are only just discovering how business works. If you think it is so unfair, why don't you open a shop, buy at 20c, sell at 40c, and put everyone else out of business while making yourself a millionaire?

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You realise that Bunnings, David Jones, MacDonalds and just about every other retailer works on the same principle?

I'm sure every large corporate in any open retail market screws their suppliers into making a pittance while they take all the cream.

Now's your chance to become a billionaire while supporting the hard working farmer Aussie. If only every problem we have could be solved simply by taking advantage of it for your own benefit.

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why don't you open a shop, buy at 20c, sell at 40c, and put everyone else out of business while making yourself a millionaire?

Because the large corporates will put me out of business as soon as I open, assuming I can find a supplier whose product is not already betrothed to the large corporates.

Would they burn your shop down?

Emma wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:37am:

so  fruit and veg only cost heaps if you buy from Woolies, or other big supermarkets. That is so obvious it need not be repeated. yOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

We went to Rouse Hill today and bought some fruit from the fruit shop there (not from Woolworths or Coles).  Quite a lot of what was there was around $1 or $2 more than it was at Woolworths when I was there yesterday morning - as far as I could tell, nothing was cheaper.  I suppose that the fruit shop prices must be higher because Woolworths and Coles have such huge mark-ups on what they sell.

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:53pm:

Would they burn your shop down?

Very droll freediver, and equally as relevant.

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Rubbish.  The Coles/Wollies buyers from producers are out there, controlling the market.....like this. Coles:  "I'll give you ten cents."..............and sell at 100 cents. Woolies:  "I'll give you ten cents."..............and sell at 100 cents. IGA:  "I'll give you twelve cents" ................ and sell at 100 cents. Who is screwing who?

Surely there is a few billion to be made in that 10:1 ratio Aussie. How could they possibly stop you? Remember, all the other supermarkets (including the new ones whose core business model is to squeeze the old ones out of the market by charging less and paying more), have agreed with each other to overcharge customers and underpay suppliers by the same amount. Any rational person would see that as an opportunity, if they honestly believed what they were saying.

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Remember, all the other supermarkets (including the new ones whose core business model is to squeeze the old ones out of the market by charging less and paying more), have agreed with each other .........

Ah.....I'll bet you cannot support that with even a scintilla of evidence.

Wolseley wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Emma wrote on Jan 25th, 2016 at 1:37am: so  fruit and veg only cost heaps if you buy from Woolies, or other big supermarkets. That is so obvious it need not be repeated. yOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. We went to Rouse Hill today and bought some fruit from the fruit shop there (not from Woolworths or Coles).  Quite a lot of what was there was around $1 or $2 more than it was at Woolworths when I was there yesterday morning - as far as I could tell, nothing was cheaper.  I suppose that the fruit shop prices must be higher because Woolworths and Coles have such huge mark-ups on what they sell.

I find, on the hand, that going to my local discount fruit barn , is much cheaper.
Like

Silverbeet ,anywhere from 3.98 a bunch at Woolies compared to 1.99 for much fresher bunches at the local,
Potatoes 2.98 up to 4.98 kg at Woolies
1.89 at the local 

Red grapefruit 3.98 kg at Woolies.. a whole bag of six or more for  2.99 etc

Of course, this is in Logan City, where the produce is varied and fresh, and not expensive.
Petrol and fruit and veg are always cheaper in lower socio-economic areas.
So go ask why?

Whatever the market will bear.

I don\t know where Rouse Hill is ,  but If you go to fruit shops at high end centres in well-to-do suburbs you'll pay just as much as at the big supermarkets.

Emma wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:39pm:

If you go to fruit shops at high end centres in well-to-do suburbs you'll pay just as much as at the big supermarkets.

Given that these days I generally go shopping as and when I need things, rather than once every week or fortnight, I'm not going to start spending money driving all over Sydney so I can save a few dollars on my fruit and vegetables.

I don't mind paying a bit more if the quality is better.

Living in Logan Country, if I want to shop anywhere OTHER than Woolies, I have to drive 15 klms.

And it is worth it. I end up with twice the meat and veg I'd get at Woolies, at least.

Like I said, I'd rather pay less for better produce, anytime.


Not like living in the city out here, and you get used to and enjoy driving through the lovely countryside, on the way in. :)

One thing I never buy from coles or woolies is meat. It is always absurdly overpriced.

even their dogs bones are expensive. Having tried them all, I'd prefer Coles meat, but I rarely use the big guys for most of my shopping. If I had to choose I'd go with IGA or ALDI.

There aren't any here. So much for choice. Used to have an IGA, but Woolies smashed them into the ground.
Despite protests based on competition, IGA lost out, and the whole old complex was destroyed so Woolies could Redevelop.   >:( If I wanted to shop at IGA, which I would prefer, of all of them, I'd have to drive closer to 25 klms. !

Talk about monopolizing the market.  :(

The problem with IGA is the inconsistency in the quality and presentation of the stores.  The best ones are very good, such as the ones at St Ives and North Turramurra.  Some are pretty average, and a few of them are really bad - there's a rather scruffy one at Parramatta that I wouldn't want to shop at.

well at least you have choice in your local neighbourhood. 

You want to pay more, you can. :)

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:09am:

Are you attempting to disagree with me? Some things to consider: Her trolley was over-filled with packages, not food. If you took away the packaging, you probably had a lot more food. Coffee, olive oil, cheese etc are expensive. If you took away the expensive items, your bill would probably have been less. Cheese, rice, pasta etc are very dense food items. Did you have any fresh, local, in season veges? Things like corn, potatoes and whatever fruit they grow locally will be dirt cheap at times. Coles and woolies may not pass the savings on to you, but they often do. But if you buy out of season cherries and goji berries you can indeed spend a fortune and come away without much food. I have never paid $270 for one grocery trip before.

I already made the disclaimer that i had big ticket items in my trolley, but not enough to account for $125.

Fresh produce costs more than processed food. I did say that i shop seasonally. My family are vegetarian so we buy a large amount of fruit and vegies. We, of course, save money by not buying meat.

If you've never spent $270 at the stupor-market, i would suggest you are not doing a fortnightly shop for 4 people. 

I don't mind paying a bit more if the quality is better.

Quite right Wols.

I think I am a fruit snob,, but you get much better value with fruit that is picked right, tastes good and you eat and enjoy every bit of it.

Supermarket fruit often looks alright only to disappoint you when you try it .

It annoys me that the name of the grower and variety is not on the end of the box any more.
If I have that information I know exactly how that fruit will taste.

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I did say that i shop seasonally.

I also buy corn when it is dirt cheap. But I don't expect this to somehow magically make up for a $20 jar of coffee. If you couldn't afford the $270 bill, you would easily find a way to feed those people on half as much, even if you maintained your objection to preserved food.


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If you've never spent $270 at the stupor-market, i would suggest you are not doing a fortnightly shop for 4 people.

 

I've done that plenty of times.

Emma wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:50pm:

even their dogs bones are expensive. Having tried them all, I'd prefer Coles meat, but I rarely use the big guys for most of my shopping. If I had to choose I'd go with IGA or ALDI. There aren't any here. So much for choice. Used to have an IGA, but Woolies smashed them into the ground. Despite protests based on competition, IGA lost out, and the whole old complex was destroyed so Woolies could Redevelop.   >:( If I wanted to shop at IGA, which I would prefer, of all of them, I'd have to drive closer to 25 klms. ! Talk about monopolizing the market.  :(

I do some small items at IGA as it is closest but they are always a lot more expensive that Woollies or Coles.

Tend to but Meat from a bulk meat butcher and fruit and veg next door in a F&V shop.

Corn has been great lately 4 big cobs for $3. # months ago the asparagus was in season at about $1 a bunch.

I tend to enjoy what is best value at the time.

I know that Coles was locked into buying a lot from the US with the free trade but I suspect the AUD had put the prices through the roof from O/S markets making out of season F&V a lot more costly. Got Tomatoes @ $2 a kilo leas week but gone up again this week.