The US went down this free trade path and were conned by the promise of a huge chinese market they could then sell their goods too. What happened was the US corporations saw an opportunity to close down US factories and relocate them to china and rest is history. Be alarmed not alert - we are going through the same process. In fact it is a lot worse for Australia because it has already lost a lot of its manufacturing capacity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEp9xb_0DCQ

Sounds like a better idea than pouring taxpayer funds into ford and holden to prop up greedy unions.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:48am:

Sounds like a better idea than pouring taxpayer funds into ford and holden to prop up greedy unions.

Dos it? Why? Because you're ideologically opposed to it? Isn't it better Aussie are actually working?

Having unemployed saves taxpayers NOTHING. What we save in subsidies we end up paying in social security benefits

Sure it is better for Aussies to be working. The way to achieve that is to stop taxing everyone to prop up uncompetitive companies. It is not the government's role to decide what our jobs should be. Nor is it yours. Everyone will suffer if we turn industry into an aged care facility for unionised workers who are stuck in the past.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:14am:

Sure it is better for Aussies to be working. The way to achieve that is to stop taxing everyone to prop up uncompetitive companies. It is not the government's role to decide what our jobs should be. Nor is it yours. Everyone will suffer if we turn industry into an aged care facility for unionised workers who are stuck in the past.

FD you must be a very rich man with no financial worries for the rest of your life, otherwise you are just a fool that thinks he is rich.

First of all if you HAVE to work to survive like most of us you can kiss the unions arse that you are getting a good wage and only have to work 40 hours a week otherwise you would be working 16 hours a day, every day of the week for a dollar an hour.

Unions are responsible for your CURRENT job conditions and entitlements.

Globalisation is bad for all nations cause the greedy oligarchy only care about money and profits, shifting your job my job and most Australian jobs to low cost centres of shore is preferable to the oligarchy who wouldn't even blink an eye lid as to how your or my family will survive.

Show me a nation that has prospered under globalisation and isn't in debt...!!

Do you object to slave labour...???

What about child labour.....????

Let go of the stupidity that is blue red or green and look out for the whole of Australia, not just yourself but your neighbour as well.

Its called a fair go.

I am looking out for myself, my neighbour, and the poor Chinese people who are desperate for work we are unwilling to do.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:14am:

Sure it is better for Aussies to be working. The way to achieve that is to stop taxing everyone to prop up uncompetitive companies. It is not the government's role to decide what our jobs should be. Nor is it yours. Everyone will suffer if we turn industry into an aged care facility for unionised workers who are stuck in the past.

not forgetting their free pass to a life time of rewards on the front benches of the labor party..

why keep propping up car companies that have already said we are gone by 2017 anyway no matter what you do...


it makes sense to some.. ::)

I dont worry about them....they think it makes them look compassionate and caring... of course all the while ROME is burning....but dont anyone  tell them...

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:48am:

Sounds like a better idea than pouring taxpayer funds into ford and holden to prop up greedy unions.

How is it that Unions are greedy? They follow a path of negotiating wages and conditions under a supervised system, and workers are either paid award rates and conditions or in accordance with agreements that cannot fall below award conditions.

How does 'greedy Unions' come into that process?

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:14am:

Sure it is better for Aussies to be working. The way to achieve that is to stop taxing everyone to prop up uncompetitive companies. It is not the government's role to decide what our jobs should be. Nor is it yours. Everyone will suffer if we turn industry into an aged care facility for unionised workers who are stuck in the past.

Does that apply to all of the corporate welfare handed out to people who hoard property ?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:56am:

The US went down this free trade path and were conned by the promise of a huge chinese market they could then sell their goods too. What happened was the US corporations saw an opportunity to close down US factories and relocate them to china and rest is history. Be alarmed not alert - we are going through the same process. In fact it is a lot worse for Australia because it has already lost a lot of its manufacturing capacity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEp9xb_0DCQ

Does this mean Australia's only manufacturer 'Map of Tassie' Merkins is stuffed?

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:59am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 18th, 2016 at 8:56am: The US went down this free trade path and were conned by the promise of a huge chinese market they could then sell their goods too. What happened was the US corporations saw an opportunity to close down US factories and relocate them to china and rest is history. Be alarmed not alert - we are going through the same process. In fact it is a lot worse for Australia because it has already lost a lot of its manufacturing capacity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEp9xb_0DCQ Does this mean Australia's only manufacturer 'Map of Tassie' Merkins is stuffed?

The way Australia is transitioning into a bullshit service sector selling cups of coffee to each other they will be lucky to still have the skills to make pulverised sheep sh.t :(

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:43am:

I am looking out for myself, my neighbour, and the poor Chinese people who are desperate for work we are unwilling to do.

Do you honestly think the corporations offering these poor chinese workers work are doing it because of altruistic motives or are they just looking for the lowest bidder ? And when these poor chinese people's standard of living and wages eventually increases do you think the corporations will start looking elsewhere again ?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 11:23am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:43am: I am looking out for myself, my neighbour, and the poor Chinese people who are desperate for work we are unwilling to do. Do you honestly think the corporations offering these poor chinese workers work are doing it because of altruistic motives or are they just looking for the lowest bidder ? And when these poor chinese people's standard of living and wages eventually increases do you think the corporations will start looking elsewhere again ?

The economic cycle may turn in favor of the white trash of Asia again. But their skills may have declined to the bottom level menial service industry, giving each other hand jobs and changing adult diapers.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 11:23am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:43am: I am looking out for myself, my neighbour, and the poor Chinese people who are desperate for work we are unwilling to do. Do you honestly think the corporations offering these poor chinese workers work are doing it because of altruistic motives or are they just looking for the lowest bidder ? And when these poor chinese people's standard of living and wages eventually increases do you think the corporations will start looking elsewhere again ? The economic cycle may turn in favor of the white trash of Asia again. But their skills may have declined to the bottom level menial service industry, giving each other hand jobs and changing adult diapers.

Racist tw/at

The Chinese are taking this Country by stealth.  Buying our farms,  our firms, our real estate.....,

Try doing that in China.

The stupid Politicians will turn this Country into third world white trash with the Chinese owning our sorry arses.

red baron wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 12:14pm:

The Chinese are taking this Country by stealth.  Buying our farms,  our firms, our real estate....., Try doing that in China. The stupid Politicians will turn this Country into third world white trash with the Chinese owning our sorry arses.

Ah - you've been looking into my story development - Austrochine...... kinda like the French classic Indochine.. about the subjugation and abuse of the Indochinese people by their conquerors...

Said politicians have a few lazy bill floating in the Bahamas tax free - their retirement fund... it's called the Futures Fund... (not the Fuhrer's Funds).... as fine a piece of chicanery as you would ever meet in some dark political hall......

red baron wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 12:14pm:

The Chinese are taking this Country by stealth.  Buying our farms,  our firms, our real estate....., Try doing that in China. The stupid Politicians will turn this Country into third world white trash with the Chinese owning our sorry arses.

But you are missing the point. All of this is supposed to be good for us and bad for them :D LOL

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:48am: Sounds like a better idea than pouring taxpayer funds into ford and holden to prop up greedy unions. How is it that Unions are greedy? They follow a path of negotiating wages and conditions under a supervised system, and workers are either paid award rates and conditions or in accordance with agreements that cannot fall below award conditions. How does 'greedy Unions' come into that process?

Does demanding $180000 per year to work at a power station sound greedy to you?

The reason the system requires so much supervision is because of the self destructive and criminal actions of greedy unions. The laws that had to be put in place to curb union excess are evidence of union greed, not evidence they are benign.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 2:00pm:

Does demanding $180000 per year to work at a power station sound greedy to you?

I bet they do more than politicians who are earning double that.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 2:00pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:48am: Sounds like a better idea than pouring taxpayer funds into ford and holden to prop up greedy unions. How is it that Unions are greedy? They follow a path of negotiating wages and conditions under a supervised system, and workers are either paid award rates and conditions or in accordance with agreements that cannot fall below award conditions. How does 'greedy Unions' come into that process? Does demanding $180000 per year to work at a power station sound greedy to you? The reason the system requires so much supervision is because of the self destructive and criminal actions of greedy unions. The laws that had to be put in place to curb union excess are evidence of union greed, not evidence they are benign.

And putting it in the hands of the profit driven private sector is a better solution ? With dickheads knocking at your door trying to offer you an imaginary 10% discount. You've got to be kidding me. !! The biggest disaster ever was to put essential services into the hands of the private sector. Bring back the SEC any day !!

red baron wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 12:14pm:

The Chinese are taking this Country by stealth.  Buying our farms,  our firms, our real estate....., Try doing that in China. The stupid Politicians will turn this Country into third world white trash with the Chinese owning our sorry arses.

Its already third world white trash. Lee Kuan Yew anointed closet poms as the white trash of Asia.

John "closet pom" Howard snivels and grovels to Lee Kuan Yew:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/6339692-3x2-340x227.jpg

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 2:00pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:48am: Sounds like a better idea than pouring taxpayer funds into ford and holden to prop up greedy unions. How is it that Unions are greedy? They follow a path of negotiating wages and conditions under a supervised system, and workers are either paid award rates and conditions or in accordance with agreements that cannot fall below award conditions. How does 'greedy Unions' come into that process? Does demanding $180000 per year to work at a power station sound greedy to you? The reason the system requires so much supervision is because of the self destructive and criminal actions of greedy unions. The laws that had to be put in place to curb union excess are evidence of union greed, not evidence they are benign.

With all due respect - I would imagine that only a very few would be getting $180k pa - the majority are more likely around $60-80k.  The top hands in some area of operation might cop that much - the majority certainly wouldn't.

Besides - it's not a demand unless the recipient is a wimp - it is a point of negotiation.. ask Mania - she's a world class negotiator (like Matty is a world class psychistrist - he means psychiatrist but he'd be the only one in the world without a medical degree... maybe he's studying psychology like every man, woman and his/her dog.... makes great filler for an Arts degree)...

What are these 'laws' that had to be put in place to curb Union excesses?  How do they work and what are their functions?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 4:12pm:

With all due respect - I would imagine that only a very few would be getting $180k pa - the majority are more likely around $60-80k.  The top hands in some area of operation might cop that much - the majority certainly wouldn't.

I don't believe being overpaid is a recognized cause of death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_Power_Station


Quote:

The rate of pleural and peritoneal mesothelioma among power industry workers was found to be seven times the national average. (Victorian State Government study, 2001). Latrobe Valley power industry workers die 15 years younger than the national average.

John Smith wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 2:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 2:00pm: Does demanding $180000 per year to work at a power station sound greedy to you? I bet they do more than politicians who are earning double that.

You think that tradies in a power station should be paid more than the people running the country?

Ever heard the saying, pay peanuts, get monkeys?

You never answered the question about whether it sounds greedy.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:04pm:

You think that tradies in a power station should be paid more than the people running the country?

if they do more work, why not?


freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:04pm:

Ever heard the saying, pay peanuts, get monkeys?

yep ... and I'd like to make sure my electricity goes on when I hit the switch


freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:04pm:

You never answered the question about whether it sounds greedy

How can I? You haven't told me what exactly those on $180k are doing exactly. I can't know if it's greedy if I don't have all the facts.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 4:30pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 4:12pm: With all due respect - I would imagine that only a very few would be getting $180k pa - the majority are more likely around $60-80k.  The top hands in some area of operation might cop that much - the majority certainly wouldn't. I don't believe being overpaid is a recognized cause of death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_Power_Station [quote]The rate of pleural and peritoneal mesothelioma among power industry workers was found to be seven times the national average. (Victorian State Government study, 2001). Latrobe Valley power industry workers die 15 years younger than the national average.

[/quote)

Ouch - that I can beleive - ever smelt the Latrine Valley on your way to Malbun?  It's our only way unless we divert several hundred kms via Cambra... where the smell is just as bad but of a different kind....

Quote:

if they do more work, why not?

How would you measure the quantity of work? The hours they do?


Quote:

yep ... and I'd like to make sure my electricity goes on when I hit the switch

Wow. So many complaints about the skyrocketing price of electricity. It is refreshing to suddenly find someone who thinks reliability is more important. So tell me, if underpaying people in a power station might result in your TV not coming on, what do you think might be the consequences of underpaying the people who run the country?


Quote:

How can I? You haven't told me what exactly those on $180k are doing exactly. I can't know if it's greedy if I don't have all the facts.

Would it be greedy for a politician to take that much salary?