http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-14/handing-out-free-veils-to-indonesian-women/7085456

Women hand out free veils in Indonesia to promote stricter form of Islam

Every Sunday in the centre of Jakarta, tens of thousands of Indonesians flock to what is one of the most congested roads in the city.

From early to mid-morning, there is an opportunity to breathe freely on what is known as "car-free Sunday".

As the name suggests, cars are banned and the road is opened to a sea of humanity in a city where wide open spaces are few and far between.

This particular Sunday, a group of women see an opportunity to preach a stricter form of Islam.

The group's leader, Triken Sholihat, fears Indonesian Muslim women are becoming too liberal in what they wear.

"We will help them to wear the head scarf properly while also explaining the reason and importance of wearing the hijab according to sharia," she tells the ABC.

"Many women are not aware that wearing the hijab is obligatory according to the Koran."

Ms Sholihat and her team have brought with them boxes of coloured veils which they distribute for free to women whose head coverings are either non-existent or, in Ms Sholihat's view, too liberally worn.

"We are campaigning for women to wear the head scarf properly, though wearing face cover is not compulsory, it is an option," she says.

She says the hijab should never be transparent and should be long enough to cover a woman's chest.

She says some Indonesian women are covering their hair but not their upper body, which is attractive to men.

Some women very willing to cover up more

With the veils in hand the women approach those passing by to give the garments away and teach the recipients "the best way to wear them".

Intan Permatedewi jumps at the chance for a free veil and lesson in wearing it.

"I did try and wear a hijab before, but some parts are still exposed, while this one is according to sharia and is fully closed," she says.

"From now on I will be wearing the hijab in line with sharia guide."

Ismawati, 12, is also approached and agrees to a dressing lesson.

"I only wear a hijab at school. They asked me if I'd be willing to wear one now and I said I will," she told the ABC.

An older woman, Nining, is also happy to oblige.

"My hijab was not covered enough like this one, a long cover. With God's will, I will correct the way I wear the hijab," she says.

Shift to Arab interpretation of Islam in Indonesia

Indonesia is widely seen as a moderate Muslim nation, but there is concern that some religious teachings are changing and that beyond the hijab, women are being urged to also cover their faces.

The head of Indonesia's largest Muslim organisation, Nahdlatul Ulama, which has more than 40 million members, says there is a growing trend that is seeing a shift to an Arab interpretation of Islam, which in part is also leading to more Indonesian women wearing full face-covering veils

"The indication is that there has been a very radical change, not only the change in thinking but the way one is presenting themself in fashion," Nahdlatul Ulama chairman Aqil Siradj says.

And while there are no official figures, he believes there are noticeably more Indonesian women choosing to fully cover their faces.

"I learnt Islam from all parts of Indonesia and none of the Ulemas ordered me to wear Arabic long dress, none of them ordered their female students to wear face covers," he says.

Amanda, 32, started wearing niqab, a veil that covers the entire body and face apart from the eyes, after she graduated from university a decade ago.

"Wearing a face cover is about the strength of faith in somebody, if someone lacks the faith they won't be able to wear a face cover," she says.

"People are wearing face covers because of their obedience to God, what I see from year to year are more women covering their faces."

'When I took it off they were shocked'

But while many Indonesian women choose to wear headscarfs and increasing numbers are donning full face covers, there are also those who are deciding to take them off.

Nur Masuroh removed her hijab a decade ago.

"At the time it was hard because I used to wear a large head scarf, and I was amongst friends who were involved in Islamic activities and when I took it off they were shocked," she says.

But she says in contrast to her decision, more women in her circle of friends are now wearing full face cover.

"Lately, I've seen that many people, friends and others wear it [face cover]. They started wearing small head scarves and then gradually wore larger ones and in the end cover their face," Ms Masuroh says.

"We can see them in train stations, public places. Back in the early 2000s there were only a couple of them around and now there are many more."

But for now there is only anecdotal evidence of a shift in Islamic teachings and dress and while Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim nation, it is also the world's third-largest democracy, meaning most Indonesian women should be able to wear whatever they like.

Make mine a "Big Mac" please!

Just what you need in a country that straddles the equator. Free bags to put over your head.

If I was the burqua importer or manufacturer, I'd hang around every weekend with all my female staff and collect as many free ones as possible. Then I'd sell them back to them the following week .... you'd only ever need to import one batch and you can keep your customers satisfied for years.  ;D ;D ;D

Maqqa should get a Niqab instead of the black plastic bag with eye holes he now wears.

We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism.

mothra wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 9:30pm:

We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism.

And that's what you got from the story?!

Radicalists are mobilising and you want to differentiate between a hijab and burqua?!

This is why I continue to verbally smack down lefties at every opportunity

Maqqa, isn't  hilarious  how Muslum women wear Hessian  sacks on forty degree days while their husbands wear boardies and t-shirts?  That's  not oppression,  eh feminists?

Maqqa wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 9:37pm:

mothra wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:30pm: We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism. And that's what you got from the story?! Radicalists are mobilising and you want to differentiate between a hijab and burqua?! This is why I continue to verbally smack down lefties at every opportunity

There is a significant difference.

Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you just stuck with the facts?

captain spaulding wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 9:41pm:

Maqqa, isn't  hilarious  how Muslum women wear Hessian  sacks on forty degree days while their husbands wear boardies and t-shirts?  That's  not oppression,  eh feminists?

I shared my pool today with a very nicely built Muslim woman .... no hessian sack on her. If the bikini was any smaller she would have been charged with nudity.

So long as you can't see the bruises it is OK.

So she definitely  wasn't  a Sunni, then?

Maqqa wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 9:37pm:

mothra wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:30pm: We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism. And that's what you got from the story?! Radicalists are mobilising and you want to differentiate between a hijab and burqua?! This is why I continue to verbally smack down lefties at every opportunity

That’s true, Maqqa. During JuLiar’s reign, you smacked down Indonesians at every opportunity too, no?

Melanias purse wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 10:38pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:37pm: mothra wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:30pm: We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism. And that's what you got from the story?! Radicalists are mobilising and you want to differentiate between a hijab and burqua?! This is why I continue to verbally smack down lefties at every opportunity That’s true, Maqqa. During JuLiar’s reign, you smacked down Indonesians at every opportunity too, no?

Nope!

I would only care if Malaysia did anything to innocent Australians

I will comment about possible increased in radical Islamic activities as per the Free Burqua thread but that's not bashing the country

mothra wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:37pm: mothra wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:30pm: We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism. And that's what you got from the story?! Radicalists are mobilising and you want to differentiate between a hijab and burqua?! This is why I continue to verbally smack down lefties at every opportunity There is a significant difference. Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you just stuck with the facts?

Let's taken an example - the difference between a bikini and one piece swimsuit. Both are swimwear

Hijab and Burqua are both female Islamic garb used for religious oppression of women

1. hijabs, not burquas (sic).

2. free, not compulsory.

Another non-story from the Islamophobes.


http://icrontic.com/uploads/features/tech/2011/09/nothing_to_see_here-300x238.jpg

Aussies not muzzies

Maqqa wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 2:28pm:

Aussies not muzzies

Aboriginals?

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 2:31pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 2:28pm: Aussies not muzzies Aboriginals?

They are Aussies so we protect them against non-Australian muzzies

The Aboriginals can drink/sniff themselves into insensibilities if they want but at least they don't scream "Allah Snack-Bar" every time they bash their wife

1. hijabs, not burquas (sic).

2. free, not compulsory.

Another non-story from the Islamophobes.

http://www.jesusandmo.net/strips/2008-05-09.jpg

I say, old boy, how do Orthodox Jewish ladies cover their hair to demonstrate their submission to G_d?

I’m.curious.

Maqqa wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

mothra wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:42pm: Maqqa wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:37pm: mothra wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:30pm: We're talking about a hijab, not a burqa .... but don't let that stop anyone from sensationalism. And that's what you got from the story?! Radicalists are mobilising and you want to differentiate between a hijab and burqua?! This is why I continue to verbally smack down lefties at every opportunity There is a significant difference. Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you just stuck with the facts? Let's taken an example - the difference between a bikini and one piece swimsuit. Both are swimwear Hijab and Burqua are both female Islamic garb used for religious oppression of women

I agree, but there are Muslim feminists with a completely different opinion.

If they argued for the niqab to be worn by men, I’d get their point.

The Liberal Party has a different view. It.supports women’s right to.choose their own.clothing.

What do.you think of this point of view?

I believe those things arabs wear on their head are a fantastic, practical form of clothing.  It world work especially well in australia.

Arabs have brought this world something of note, its just a shame I can't really utilise it, because I don't want to look like a moslem.

Melanias purse wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 6:09pm:

I say, old boy, how do Orthodox Jewish ladies cover their hair to demonstrate their submission to G_d? I’m.curious.

They don't want the world to submit to their religion - so it's nuffin' but an irrelevant efnik curiousity.

Melanias purse wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 6:16pm:

I agree, but there are Muslim feminists with a completely different opinion. If they argued for the niqab to be worn by men, I’d get their point. The Liberal Party has a different view. It.supports women’s right to.choose their own.clothing. What do.you think of this point of view?

Read the article - this group believe Muslim women are too liberal in regards to their attire. They are handing out burquas to encourage women to go back to old ways

The muslim woman who perpetrated the Californian attack started to go to a strict Islamic school several years before this happened. These schools are teaching the same fundamentals that ISIS use to launch it's recruitment drive

Offering a "free burqua" is no different from offering a free set of steak knives. The free offering tempts you in for a look. In business it's called a "lost leader". You make a lost on something small but once you're in you make a killing on something much bigger. Free steak knives anyone?

As for burqua worn by women - you need to go back to the passage where Muhammad asked muslims to hide their women. The original call to cover it was for practical purposes i.e. hide your women otherwise other men will kill you trying to steal your wives and daughters.

As for muslim feminists. Isn't it about equality? If males are not required to wear a burqua then a muslim feminist would fight for the removal of a bureau

I draw your attention back to the article and this was not about feminism

As for the Liberal right support choosing people choosing their own attire - this is incorrect. I have said many times - it's the left that support absolute rights regardless of the rights. The people on the right supports rights but season with appropriateness. Wearing a mankini is a right but is it appropriate in all situations?

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 6:35pm:

I believe those things arabs wear on their head are a fantastic, practical form of clothing.  It world work especially well in australia. Arabs have brought this world something of note, its just a shame I can't really utilise it, because I don't want to look like a moslem.

Sure, but you could try a radiation suit instead, Honky. You never know when you’ll need to keep those prying men’s eyes off your virginal skin, insh’allah.

Maqqa wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 11:06am:

Melanias purse wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:16pm: I agree, but there are Muslim feminists with a completely different opinion. If they argued for the niqab to be worn by men, I’d get their point. The Liberal Party has a different view. It.supports women’s right to.choose their own.clothing. What do.you think of this point of view? Read the article - this group believe Muslim women are too liberal in regards to their attire. They are handing out burquas to encourage women to go back to old ways The muslim woman who perpetrated the Californian attack started to go to a strict Islamic school several years before this happened. These schools are teaching the same fundamentals that ISIS use to launch it's recruitment drive Offering a "free burqua" is no different from offering a free set of steak knives. The free offering tempts you in for a look. In business it's called a "lost leader". You make a lost on something small but once you're in you make a killing on something much bigger. Free steak knives anyone? As for burqua worn by women - you need to go back to the passage where Muhammad asked muslims to hide their women. The original call to cover it was for practical purposes i.e. hide your women otherwise other men will kill you trying to steal your wives and daughters. As for muslim feminists. Isn't it about equality? If males are not required to wear a burqua then a muslim feminist would fight for the removal of a bureau I draw your attention back to the article and this was not about feminism As for the Liberal right support choosing people choosing their own attire - this is incorrect. I have said many times - it's the left that support absolute rights regardless of the rights. The people on the right supports rights but season with appropriateness. Wearing a mankini is a right but is it appropriate in all situations?

Wow - an excellent post. Why don’t you write like this all the time?

A burqua and nothing else in the bedroom might be a good thing....!!!!


http://i67.tinypic.com/2uoi70i.jpg

Not in that womans(your pic) case

In this ones case(San Bernadino Massacre Female assailant) I'd say full Burqua or that veil would be a definite.

 

---

You're such a killjoy in this instance....!!

Melanias purse wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 11:17am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 16th, 2016 at 11:06am: Melanias purse wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:16pm: I agree, but there are Muslim feminists with a completely different opinion. If they argued for the niqab to be worn by men, I’d get their point. The Liberal Party has a different view. It.supports women’s right to.choose their own.clothing. What do.you think of this point of view? Read the article - this group believe Muslim women are too liberal in regards to their attire. They are handing out burquas to encourage women to go back to old ways The muslim woman who perpetrated the Californian attack started to go to a strict Islamic school several years before this happened. These schools are teaching the same fundamentals that ISIS use to launch it's recruitment drive Offering a "free burqua" is no different from offering a free set of steak knives. The free offering tempts you in for a look. In business it's called a "lost leader". You make a lost on something small but once you're in you make a killing on something much bigger. Free steak knives anyone? As for burqua worn by women - you need to go back to the passage where Muhammad asked muslims to hide their women. The original call to cover it was for practical purposes i.e. hide your women otherwise other men will kill you trying to steal your wives and daughters. As for muslim feminists. Isn't it about equality? If males are not required to wear a burqua then a muslim feminist would fight for the removal of a bureau I draw your attention back to the article and this was not about feminism As for the Liberal right support choosing people choosing their own attire - this is incorrect. I have said many times - it's the left that support absolute rights regardless of the rights. The people on the right supports rights but season with appropriateness. Wearing a mankini is a right but is it appropriate in all situations? Wow - an excellent post. Why don’t you write like this all the time?

hes been emulating your style up to now.

ian wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 1:22am:

Melanias purse wrote on Jan 16th, 2016 at 11:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jan 16th, 2016 at 11:06am: Melanias purse wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:16pm: I agree, but there are Muslim feminists with a completely different opinion. If they argued for the niqab to be worn by men, I’d get their point. The Liberal Party has a different view. It.supports women’s right to.choose their own.clothing. What do.you think of this point of view? Read the article - this group believe Muslim women are too liberal in regards to their attire. They are handing out burquas to encourage women to go back to old ways The muslim woman who perpetrated the Californian attack started to go to a strict Islamic school several years before this happened. These schools are teaching the same fundamentals that ISIS use to launch it's recruitment drive Offering a "free burqua" is no different from offering a free set of steak knives. The free offering tempts you in for a look. In business it's called a "lost leader". You make a lost on something small but once you're in you make a killing on something much bigger. Free steak knives anyone? As for burqua worn by women - you need to go back to the passage where Muhammad asked muslims to hide their women. The original call to cover it was for practical purposes i.e. hide your women otherwise other men will kill you trying to steal your wives and daughters. As for muslim feminists. Isn't it about equality? If males are not required to wear a burqua then a muslim feminist would fight for the removal of a bureau I draw your attention back to the article and this was not about feminism As for the Liberal right support choosing people choosing their own attire - this is incorrect. I have said many times - it's the left that support absolute rights regardless of the rights. The people on the right supports rights but season with appropriateness. Wearing a mankini is a right but is it appropriate in all situations? Wow - an excellent post. Why don’t you write like this all the time? hes been emulating your style up to now.

Thank you, dear. I’m flattered.

I don’t exactly agree with all of Maqqa’s post, but I respect his ability to have a few thoughts.

I’d like to be able to honour you with this compliment one day too, Ian.

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 6:35pm:

I believe those things arabs wear on their head are a fantastic, practical form of clothing.  It world work especially well in australia. Arabs have brought this world something of note, its just a shame I can't really utilise it, because I don't want to look like a moslem.

Never heard of a Muso woman dying of skin cancer.....  :o

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 1:44am:

... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:35pm: I believe those things arabs wear on their head are a fantastic, practical form of clothing.  It world work especially well in australia. Arabs have brought this world something of note, its just a shame I can't really utilise it, because I don't want to look like a moslem. Never heard of a Muso woman dying of skin cancer.....  :o

No ... not when they have such other great alternatives like -

public beheading, shot in the head, stoning, flogging, immolation, acid bath etc.

Who needs skin cancer ey?  ;)

I was actually talking about the male headwear when I said that:

http://www.incot.com/images/content/product/scarves/scarves01.jpg

They keep you cool, are easily carried, and you can use the cloth as a hanky or carry bag if need be.

The female ones go too far, and are bloody stupid.  They look like a heavy cloth, don't allow the skin to breathe and seem to always be black.  It's like they tried to create the most impractical, uncomfortable item of clothing possible.

So putting that thing over your head keeps you cool? Why not just wear a broad brimmed hat?

My skin doctor thinks Burqas are great and raved about the milky skin that the victims have. I suppose it is not as bad as foot binding.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 9:06am:

So putting that thing over your head keeps you cool? Why not just wear a broad brimmed hat?

A broad brimmed hat doesn't keep your neck as cool, and doesn't wick away sweat.

Also, have you ever tried to pack a broad brimmed hat in a bag or suitcase?  It'll get crushed, whereas a rag and a ring pack easily.

You can get them for $5. And yes I have taken them on planes before.

Why do you want to wick away the sweat? The sweat cools your skin when it evaporates.

What makes you cooler - bare skin or skin with a wet rag draped over it?

If you wet the rage with something else, it makes you cooler. If the rag is wetted by taking away your sweat, it makes you hotter. It is drying out your skin. If the humidity is at 100%, even a wet rag will make you hotter.

Once you get the sun off it, you are better off having your skin as exposed as possible. Check out the collar the guy is wearing. Would you wear that in the tropics?

The only reason people wear wraparound garments in the tropics is to keep other nasties out - bugs, sand, rapists, black eyes etc. It does not make you cooler.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 9:39am:

If you wet the rage with something else, it makes you cooler. If the rag is wetted by taking away your sweat, it makes you hotter. It is drying out your skin. If the humidity is at 100%, even a wet rag will make you hotter. Once you get the sun off it, you are better off having your skin as exposed as possible. Check out the collar the guy is wearing. Would you wear that in the tropics? The only reason people wear wraparound garments in the tropics is to keep other nasties out - bugs, sand, rapists, black eyes etc. It does not make you cooler.

Well that's nice, but most of Australia and the middle east aren't in the tropics. 

Try one fd.  Your theories arent working, and you'll discard the very idea of trying to make a theory once you do.

I've tried similar things at work. They don't work. You can feel it drying out your skin and making you hotter.

But I still wear thick clothing covering 95% of my skin - again, for other reasons.

And I am outside of the tropics, but we still get stinking hot summers.

They have very little contact with the skin - no more than a wide-brimmed hat - so I'm not sure how you could feel this. Never mind, nobody is forcing you to wear one.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 1:44am:

... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:35pm: I believe those things arabs wear on their head are a fantastic, practical form of clothing.  It world work especially well in australia. Arabs have brought this world something of note, its just a shame I can't really utilise it, because I don't want to look like a moslem. Never heard of a Muso woman dying of skin cancer.....  :o

But apparently they do have much higher rates of other illnesses related to lack of sun light. Just like Australians who have swallowed the skin cancer myth.

Millions of women around the world are forced to wear full body coverings. So why lie about it making them cooler?

And the ones we had for work only had a similar skin contact area to a headband.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:37am:

Millions of women around the world are forced to wear full body coverings. So why lie about it making them cooler?

Here's what I had to say about womens full body coverings:


Quote:

The female ones go too far, and are bloody stupid.  They look like a heavy cloth, don't allow the skin to breathe and seem to always be black.  It's like they tried to create the most impractical, uncomfortable item of clothing possible.

Not exactly glowing praise, is it?

The tea towel over your head and shoulders is bloody stupid, as is the suggestion it is cooler than a broad brimmed hat because it 'wicks away the sweat'. The stiff color the guy in your example is also stupid. My bet is he only wears that in air conditioned comfort. It is the Arab equivalent of a penguin suit.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

as is the suggestion it is cooler than a broad brimmed hat because it 'wicks away the sweat'

Yes, to be honest, it's probably more to do with air circulation and the fabric used, but the end result is the same - greater comfort in the hot sun that an akubra. 


freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

The stiff color the guy in your example is also stupid. My bet is he only wears that in air conditioned comfort.

Maybe so. I don't care, it was one of the first results on google, not a particular ghutra I'd had my eye on.

So you think a tea-towel covering your head and shoulders gives more air circulation than an akubra? And you think this because it is a light tea-towel? If you were arguing it is better than a plastic bag over your head you might have a point.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:53am:

So you think a tea-towel covering your head and shoulders gives more air circulation than an akubra?

An akubra traps in all the heat because of its design and fabric, and doesn't keep the sun from baking the crap out of your neck and back.  Ever hear the phrase 'cotton kills'?  Its because cotton, when wet, is excellent at cooling you down.  Great in hot weather, deadly in cold.  Akubras are not made from cotton - they're made from animal skin(!) but ghutras often are.

But by all means, wear your akubra if it works for you.

Interesting discussion lads, my take if I had to cross a desert I would like to be in Arab attire, those guys have had enough time to work out what works best in that environment.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:53am:

So you think a tea-towel covering your head and shoulders gives more air circulation than an akubra? And you think this because it is a light tea-towel? If you were arguing it is better than a plastic bag over your head you might have a point.

I found that when I used to paint outside in the hot sun, I'd often hang a cloth (often old tea towels) under my cap so that it covered the back and sides of my neck (much like the arabs wear).  It worked much better at keeping me cool than a hat or cap ever did on their own. I think there is something to be said for the Arabs attire.
I occasionally wear an Akubra now when out in the gardens, but I find that it traps the heat and makes things worse so more often than not, the Akubra comes off after the first half an hour. The only reason I wear it at all is to stop the wife complaining that I wasted my money on it. I have to say though, The Akubra does work well in the rain though.

Quote:

An akubra traps in all the heat because of its design and fabric

Have you ever noticed it wicking away the seat from the headband area? Why does it not count when an akubra does it? Also, does it trap the heat around the front, back and sides of the head, as well as the neck and shoulders, the way your example does?


Quote:

and doesn't keep the sun from baking the crap out of your neck and back

That's what the brim is for.


Quote:

But by all means, wear your akubra if it works for you.

I usually choose a cheap straw hat if given the choice. I tend to loose them.


Quote:

I found that when I used to paint outside in the hot sun, I'd often hang a cloth (often old tea towels) under my cap

That's your problem right there. You may look cool in a cap, but you lost it with the dangly rags. Caps also tend to have as little ventilation as an akubra. You have a layer of bone, skin, hair then the thick fabric of the cap all insulating your skull. Also, the cap heats up from the sun and conducts the heat back in through the compressed mat of wet hair (much like the Arab example honky gave earlier). A good straw hat will only contact your scalp around the headband, and if it is old enough will have ventilation holes on the top, not that they really need them with the loose weave.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:15pm:

That's your problem right there. You may look cool in a cap, but you lost it with the dangly rags

firstly, when working out in the sun all day with temps in the mid to high 30's I really don't care how cool it looks. You really think painters in their whites worry about looking cool?

secondly, I used caps in my example, but I've tried all of them at some point or other. From straw hats, Acubras, cotton caps with rims (sorta like gilligan uses in gilligans island), I even tried a sombrero once  ... you name it, if it was made for sun protection, I've probably tried it. For me, what worked best at keeping me cool in the sun was a cap with a rag hanging of it.

Caps work best not because they look cool, but because wide brim hats get in the way when climbing ladders or scaffolding and when trying to paint under eaves etc. Nothing worse then painting one section only to find that your hats rim has rubbed against it as you've stretched to reach the other direction

Quote:

Caps work best not because they look cool, but because wide brim hats get in the way when climbing ladders or scaffolding and when trying to paint under eaves etc. Nothing worse then painting one section only to find that your hats rim has rubbed against it as you've stretched to reach the other direction.

Ah. That must be why the Arabs use a similar device.

... wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2016 at 10:53am: So you think a tea-towel covering your head and shoulders gives more air circulation than an akubra? An akubra traps in all the heat because of its design and fabric, and doesn't keep the sun from baking the crap out of your neck and back.  Ever hear the phrase 'cotton kills'?  Its because cotton, when wet, is excellent at cooling you down.  Great in hot weather, deadly in cold.  Akubras are not made from cotton - they're made from animal skin(!) but ghutras often are. But by all means, wear your akubra if it works for you.

Akubras are made from bunnies, aren't they?

12 rabbits in each hat (?)      :-/

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:28pm:

Quote: Caps work best not because they look cool, but because wide brim hats get in the way when climbing ladders or scaffolding and when trying to paint under eaves etc. Nothing worse then painting one section only to find that your hats rim has rubbed against it as you've stretched to reach the other direction. Ah. That must be why the Arabs use a similar device.

In their case, I expect it has more to do with the sand and wind .... of course if you had stopped to think about it, you might have come up with that on your own.

John Smith wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:34pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2016 at 2:28pm: Quote: Caps work best not because they look cool, but because wide brim hats get in the way when climbing ladders or scaffolding and when trying to paint under eaves etc. Nothing worse then painting one section only to find that your hats rim has rubbed against it as you've stretched to reach the other direction. Ah. That must be why the Arabs use a similar device. In their case, I expect it has more to do with the sand and wind .... of course if you had stopped to think about it, you might have come up with that on your own.

You must be referring to my earlier post where I mentioned sand as the likely reason. Or for the women - rapists and black eyes.

How do you think that wafer thin tea-towel fares in the wind? I think it would have trouble handling getting to close to the air conditioning downdraft.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:40pm:

You must be referring to my earlier post where I mentioned sand as the likely reason

that must be why you followed with


freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:28pm:

Ah. That must be why the Arabs use a similar device.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:40pm:

How do you think that wafer thin tea-towel fares in the wind? I think it would have trouble handling getting to close to the air conditioning downdraft.

I think it would stop the sand whipping against their necks and faces ...

My dad always wore a hanky on his head when painting, probably to stop the paint getting on his hair.

I never heard him complain that it was too hot under that hanky.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2yopeg6.jpg

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that must be why you followed with

Sorry, I see that went straight over your head. Does the guy in the photo look like a painter to you? Or someone who wears those clothes outside?


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I think it would stop the sand whipping against their necks and faces ...

You realise you can see straight through it don't you?

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:59pm:

Sorry, I see that went straight over your head. Does the guy in the photo look like a painter to you?

why would he? he's not a painter.
we were discussing the benefits of wearing a cloth to protect you from the elements.



freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:59pm:

You realise you can see straight through it don't you?

and to you that means it offers no protections? being thin it offers shade whilst allowing the slightest breeze through. And it still protects you from the sand.

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why would he? he's not a painter.

Really? How can you tell?


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we were discussing the benefits of wearing a cloth to protect you from the elements.

And to free up your arms. Perhaps he isn't wearing a straw hat in case it falls off when he raises his sword to ululate. That's what makes it cool.


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and to you that means it offers no protections?

It would be pretty useless in a sandstorm. Or any kind of wind. I'd stay clear of the air con vents even.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 4:31pm:

Really? How can you tell?

no paint on his clothes for starters. :D :D


freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 4:31pm:

And to free up your arms

why? do you have to hold your akubra or straw hat onto your head when you wear it? How do you reel in your fish with one hand?


freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 4:31pm:

It would be pretty useless in a sandstorm. Or any kind of wind. I'd stay clear of the air con vents even.

that's based on your opinion after having never tried it. Having used similar coverings, in all sorts of weather, I disagree.

So tell us about your experiences wearing tissue thin rags in sandstorms John.


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why? do you have to hold your akubra or straw hat onto your head when you wear it?

You explained that your aversion to them had nothing to do with how well they worked keeping you cool, but was all down to needing to work above head height.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 5:14pm:

So tell us about your experiences wearing tissue thin rags in sandstorms John. I never said I ever tried them in a sand storm. Now you tell us your experiences with tissue thin rags and how they failed you? [quote author=freediver link=1452749639/65#65 date=1453014885] You explained that your aversion to them had nothing to do with how well they worked keeping you cool, but was all down to needing to work above head height. yes, that was my reason, not theirs. To know why they wear them, I'd have to try riding camels in the desert through all sorts of weather conditions. Whilst it's on my to do list, it's not one I've yet experienced.

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yes, that was my reason, not theirs. To know why they wear them, I'd have to try riding camels in the desert through all sorts of weather conditions.

Like the guy in the photo? Such a hard looking man, don't you think? Don't let the absence of paint spots fool you.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 5:34pm:

Quote: yes, that was my reason, not theirs. To know why they wear them, I'd have to try riding camels in the desert through all sorts of weather conditions. Like the guy in the photo? Such a hard looking man, don't you think? Don't let the absence of paint spots fool you.

Fool me? I haven't really determined anything from that photo apart from the fact that he doesn't look like a painter. I could be wrong, if you have contrary information please show me.

You on the other hand, think he's going to blow himself up because he wears a thin cloth over his head  :D :D

... wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 9:08am:

freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2016 at 9:06am: So putting that thing over your head keeps you cool? Why not just wear a broad brimmed hat? A broad brimmed hat doesn't keep your neck as cool, and doesn't wick away sweat. Also, have you ever tried to pack a broad brimmed hat in a bag or suitcase?  It'll get crushed, whereas a rag and a ring pack easily.

Yeah suited for life as a desert Bedouin ... why don't you head on over if you want to wear that shyte?

John Smith wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 5:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2016 at 5:34pm: Quote: yes, that was my reason, not theirs. To know why they wear them, I'd have to try riding camels in the desert through all sorts of weather conditions. Like the guy in the photo? Such a hard looking man, don't you think? Don't let the absence of paint spots fool you. Fool me? I haven't really determined anything from that photo apart from the fact that he doesn't look like a painter. I could be wrong, if you have contrary information please show me. You on the other hand, think he's going to blow himself up because he wears a thin cloth over his head  :D :D

I think he is going to sit in an air conditioned office thinking about how pretty his stubble is.