Cuts will force diabetes patients to 'pay hundreds more for blood, urine tests', say pathologists   :(

Date
    January 13, 2016
    Canberra Times

Diabetics could be out of pocket hundreds of dollars each year for their treatment if cuts to pathology go ahead, raising the risk of complications including kidney disease, doctors warn.   :(

Health Minister Sussan Ley flagged plans to cut and limit bulk billing incentive payments for pathology and diagnostic imaging services last month, saving the government $650 million over four years.

Dr Nick Musgrave, president of Pathology Australia, said that without the payment, most pathology services would no longer be bulk-billed. Major pathology providers have already indicated they will pass losses from the cuts on to patients.   :(

About 1.7 million Australians with diabetes, he said, could have to pay more than $400 upfront for a year of standard blood and urine tests to monitor their kidneys and risk of heart disease. Higher costs could deter some patients from doing the tests "making management of their diabetes more difficult for their doctors, and will result in an increase in complications of diabetes including kidney disease and blindness," Dr Musgrave said.

This follows reports that the Royal College of Pathologists of Australasia said pap smears could cost women at least $30 upfront if the cuts go ahead. Ms Ley's spokesman last week said that the government was not changing the Medicare rebate for pap smears but removing an "inefficient payment" to pathology firms. Patients would be "rightly suspicious" of providers claiming they will charge patients $30 to make up the losses from incentive payments worth up to $3.40, he said.

Dr Musgrave said that even with the rebate, patients with diabetes will still be left about $270 out of pocket a year, as the Medicare rebate for pathology services had been frozen for the past 20 years: "It doesn't matter how the government would like to construct the funding of the tests, [the bulk-billing incentive is] part of the overall funding for them."

Diabetes educator and nurse Cheryl Steele said that Type 2 diabetes patients over 50 years, including pensioners, were most likely to forego pathology tests, risking kidney and cardiovascular diseases, because they are often already paying for multiple medications. Those from non-English and lower socioeconomic backgrounds were particularly vulnerable because they had a lower understanding of how to manage their diabetes.

"We have patients who will take medication for blood pressure this month and cholesterol next month because they can't afford it all," Ms Steele, a director of the Australian Diabetes Educators Association, said. "Anything that puts extra burden on them to maintain good health will ultimately end up costing more hospital beds."

Dr Musgrave said that higher pathology fees could also deter patients from getting tested for conditions that do not display obvious initial symptoms, including cervical, bowel and prostate cancers and Hepatitis C: "If there's a delay in diagnosis ... because of the co-payment they will have a far worse clinical outcome and it's possible that by the time of diagnosis, the disease is incurable."

Health Minister Sussan Ley's spokesman said the Medicare rebate for pathology tests remained the same, and the tests were still covered by the Medicare Safety Net.

He called pathologists' warnings "opportunistic", saying it "shows this debate is really about protecting profits, not patients".

The incentive payments to pathology firms were worth "just $1.40 to $3.40" but had only raised bulk billing rates one per cent since 2009, the spokesman said. He would not say whether Ms Ley was concerned about pathologists' claims the removal of the payments would reduce bulk billing rates.

Scare-mongering by pathology companies.

pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc.

they have made enormous profits through volume and scale.

a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/
even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated.

you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money.

the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow.

i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients.

pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives.
they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$..

epic fail leftards

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:45am:

Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards

Scare-mongering by pathology companies.

Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more.

Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more.

Cuts Will Force Patients To Pay Hundreds More

Maybe thousands more

Absolute no brainer - hardly even worth saying.

wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:28am:

Health Minister Sussan Ley's spokesman said the Medicare rebate for pathology tests remained the same, and the tests were still covered by the Medicare Safety Net. He called pathologists' warnings "opportunistic", saying it "shows this debate is really about protecting profits, not patients".

Every business is about profits, of course any cuts will be passed on to the customer. Where do the Liberal find these num nums?

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:13am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:45am: Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards Scare-mongering by pathology companies. Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more. Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more.

if there are 10 pathology companies offering a service with a medicare rebate of say $100 and they know that the service costs them $50 to provide, then are they really going to try to up the price , knowing full well a competitor will simply steal their business??


answer ....NO.


there is built in fat (too much in fact) and they will continue to bulk bill to keep up volume.

the only winner is the taxpayer, the only loser is the corporate health company.
(and surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies)

That would work if the market was competitive but not if it is a cartel.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:36am:

That would work if the market was competitive but not if it is a cartel.

There are consumer laws against cartel conduct.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:32am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:13am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:45am: Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards Scare-mongering by pathology companies. Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more. Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more. if there are 10 pathology companies offering a service with a medicare rebate of say $100 and they know that the service costs them $50 to provide, then are they really going to try to up the price , knowing full well a competitor will simply steal their business?? answer ....NO. there is built in fat (too much in fact) and they will continue to bulk bill to keep up volume. the only winner is the taxpayer, the only loser is the corporate health company. (and surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies)

In my region all the services are fully booked out all the time, they do not compete for business they can not service more, they often send business to their competitors. They will all choose to recoup their costs.

As today they all use the same cost structure the trend will continue in the future just at a different level.

These guys currently all bulk bill in my area, this may not be true in the future, it is very likely they will move to a model similar to doctors.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:41am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:36am: That would work if the market was competitive but not if it is a cartel. There are consumer laws against cartel conduct.

But they never seem to catch anyone.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:32am:

the only winner is the taxpayer, the only loser is the corporate health company. (and surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies)

surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies

The theory sounds good but the fact is that these guys in my region seem to provide excellent service at a good rate. It is hard to complain about them.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:32am: the only winner is the taxpayer, the only loser is the corporate health company. (and surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies) surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies The theory sounds good but the fact is that these guys in my region seem to provide excellent service at a good rate. It is hard to complain about them.

Horse boy does not live in reality and just spouts predigested opinions from self help books. I challenged him to define leftard and rightard and got what was obviously a table from one of his wretched books—he cannot think anymore.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:32am: the only winner is the taxpayer, the only loser is the corporate health company. (and surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies) surely lefties must HATE corporate health companies The theory sounds good but the fact is that these guys in my region seem to provide excellent service at a good rate. It is hard to complain about them.

It is a good rate to the consumer as its bulk billed.
But , in all seriousness, if patients start getting charged, they wont be wanting their tests done,
volume will fall, profit will fall , and the bulk billing will start again.

This is exactly how an efficient market works.

Gillard putting in incentives of 500 million when bulk billing was already at 89 % seems foolish.

A lot of the medicare schedule needs to be overhauled.

a cataract operation used to take an hour and a half,
now with laser and cryo ablation, it can be done in 15 minutes.

the medicare rebate is 600 dollars.

on ophthalmologist did 18 in one day.

thats 10,000 in medicare funding IN ONE DAY TO ONE GUY and he had the hide to charge double the rebate in gap fees.

now , if the government try to slash the rebate, the eye surgeons will be crying poor and we will have cry baby stories about grandma being stuck at home, blind, thanks to the minister for health cutting back on what is obviously a rort.

lefties need to get on the right side of this.
stop supporting a guy who makes 10 grand a day from medicare, as much again from greedy gap fees and seeks to pretend to be "the patients best friend' just to line his own pockets

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:45am:

Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale.

Yay for capitalism.

Do you get a diesel subsidy for your farm scoot?

Redmond Neck wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 8:17am:

Do you get a diesel subsidy for your farm scoot?

My farms are more a hobby. i have a good business in town.
I earn over 20,000 income off each of the properties BUT my costs are always over that so they dont make a profit and , as such, you cant write it off against the other business.
i only run a tractor and it only gets used to dig fence posts , so the rebate is insignificant.
i use solar on a jack pump to fill tanks and have an electric pump to irriagte
solar on the electric fences.

there is no money in family farms...its a lifestyle choice.

i have a couple of utes which are FBT exempt but they are FBT exempt even for the business in town.
i never knew that, the accountant said , even a dentist can get his vehicle FBT exempt if its a ute,

but farming teaches you a lot of principles which are transferable to a city business.

Back to these rich medical companies...dont think they are in it for the benefit of the patients.
the government needs to be all over them and stop them using sick patients as human shields.
Its pathetic

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 7:13am:

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:45am: Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards Scare-mongering by pathology companies. Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more. Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more.

so what's the problem?  do you really think that if you had diabetes you wouldnt willingly pay more for your critical health care?  for the vast majority it is easily affordable. for the rest, that is where govt should step in but not before.

how many of you spend $400 a year on something of almost zero value or worth?

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 8:31am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:13am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:45am: Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards Scare-mongering by pathology companies. Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more. Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more. so what's the problem?  do you really think that if you had diabetes you wouldnt willingly pay more for your critical health care?  for the vast majority it is easily affordable. for the rest, that is where govt should step in but not before. how many of you spend $400 a year on something of almost zero value or worth?

Well no, i wouldnt agree with that position either.
If even a small percentage of diabetics decide not to have their tests done due to a cost, then they might end up in hospital with a black toe and require 30,000 worth of hospital spending and stop being productive workers and end up on the DSP,  so we must proceed with pragmatism.

BUT.....
the profits and competition are what will drive bulk billing.

personally, how about a 10 % sugar tax on all foods with added sugar and use that money to pay diabetics an incentive to keep their 3 monthly sugars perfect.

with diabetes now the number 1 cause of hospital admission, this is a win/win  and incentives should always go to those doing the right thing
(currently the incentives seem to be going to big greedy corporate health and bug greedy corporate junk food)

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 8:31am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:13am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:45am: Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards Scare-mongering by pathology companies. Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more. Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more. so what's the problem?  do you really think that if you had diabetes you wouldnt willingly pay more for your critical health care?  for the vast majority it is easily affordable. for the rest, that is where govt should step in but not before. how many of you spend $400 a year on something of almost zero value or worth?

Your smellograph subscription?

aquascoot wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 8:53am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 8:31am: Dnarever wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 7:13am: aquascoot wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:45am: Scare-mongering by pathology companies. pathology companies are all owned by corporate companies nowdays...sonic healthcare etc. they have made enormous profits through volume and scale. a full blood count , which used to need a technician to stare down a microscope is now fully automated/ even abnormal cell recognition on pap smears is automated. you just need one guy to turn on the machines and the other to count the money. the incentives were fro bulk billing but the whole system is so lucrative that competition between players ensures they will out compete each other and the incentives were just a massive taxpayer donation to guys to spend upgrading their yachts or taking their mistress to the snow. i find it unbelievable the lefties are coming down in favour of big profitable corporations who are trying to shield behind sick patients. pathologists woudl never have seen or spoken to apatient in their lives. they went into pathology to get away from patients and now that it is fully automated, all they have to think about is $$$$$.. epic fail leftards Scare-mongering by pathology companies. Services required by patients will not be covered and will cost a lot more. Waffle all you like but the fact is that everyone who needs these services will be paying a lot more. so what's the problem?  do you really think that if you had diabetes you wouldnt willingly pay more for your critical health care?  for the vast majority it is easily affordable. for the rest, that is where govt should step in but not before. how many of you spend $400 a year on something of almost zero value or worth? Well no, i wouldnt agree with that position either. If even a small percentage of diabetics decide not to have their tests done due to a cost, then they might end up in hospital with a black toe and require 30,000 worth of hospital spending and stop being productive workers and end up on the DSP,  so we must proceed with pragmatism. BUT..... the profits and competition are what will drive bulk billing. personally, how about a 10 % sugar tax on all foods with added sugar and use that money to pay diabetics an incentive to keep their 3 monthly sugars perfect. with diabetes now the number 1 cause of hospital admission, this is a win/win  and incentives should always go to those doing the right thing (currently the incentives seem to be going to big greedy corporate health and bug greedy corporate junk food)

many on here complain about the 'nanny state'.  if you dont want a nanny state then at some point you need to take responsibility for your own needs.  this is one such thing.  If you are sick and in need of continual care then it is YOUR job to ensure it gets done.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

many on here complain about the 'nanny state'.

most of them are libs .... they use as justification to screw the little man and prop up corporations

John Smith wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 5:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 5:10pm: many on here complain about the 'nanny state'. most of them are libs ....

...Libertarians ?