It must be bleedingly obvious to most people that any intake of refugees from the Middle East or North Africa - ANY intake at all -  is a recipe for trouble.
Most of Europe shows us that. It's beyond debate.

When I say "most people", there are of course some - mothra is one, many others here - who put their globalist compassion ideals ahead of the protection and survival of their own western culture.
What am I saying "put their ideals ahead"? They have been conditioned to despise & deprecate their own culture to the point where they'd put up with almost anything. I do believe, like the Mayor of Cologne, they'd try and prevent any criticism of refugee behaviour, even the rape & molestation of our women.

So what does the importation of refugees from these places do for our country?
Surely it must do something positive or the politically correct brigade wouldn't put up with the negatives like what happened in Adelaide today. Or maybe they would.

Oh I know, it gives some new food experiences. Well that's a good trade off isn't it?
Can't the bleeding hearts have an orgasm over helping the needy in our own midst or doesn't that do it for them anymore?
That's probably it. In this Facebook world, they have to be able to join hands round the world and say, hey you guys in Canada, look what we're doing.

Well what they're doing is sowing ever more seeds of trouble that will sprout and multiply until, like the Germans, they will finally wake up, too late, and say what the f*ck have we done.

Malcolm, is someone in your office listening? They bloody well better be. We need more people from the Middle East & North Africa (for which read "muslims') like we need a hole in the head.

PS Cue the inane like Alevine to chirp in with "you're a racist".

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:03am:

So what does the importation of refugees from these places do for our country?

I'm not sure, Bogie. What does it do for the refugees?

The answers to your questions had been repeated many times, just as you and your friends had asked the same many times.

1. Can't the bleeding hearts have an orgasm over helping the needy in our own midst or doesn't that do it for them anymore?

And by bleeding hearts, you mean someone with at least some degree of compassion and ethics.   The answer is yes, the bleeding hearts had been helping the needy in our society.  From the homeless, to the disabled.  From mentally ill to people who are just old and frail.  Bleeding heart giving up their time help ease the suffering.  And yet, our government continue to cut fundings, whilst at the same time, turning a blind eye on their own entitlement and balant tax evasion by big companies.   That I find it, alot more unjustifiable than helping refugees from other countries with genuine need.

2. What am I saying "put their ideals ahead"? They have been conditioned to despise & deprecate their own culture to the point where they'd put up with almost anything. I do believe, like the Mayor of Cologne, they'd try and prevent any criticism of refugee behaviour, even the rape & molestation of our women.

Rape and moestation are crimes, but that does not equal what refugees do.  The vast majority just wanted a safe haven for their family.   Its terrible of you to generalize that for all refugees.   By all means, deport or jail any one who have been found guilty.  But leave the innocent majority alone.

Refugees consists not only men.  But also women and children.  Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is balant sexism. 

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:13am:

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:03am: So what does the importation of refugees from these places do for our country? I'm not sure, Bogie. What does it do for the refugees?

Frankly Karnal I don't give a damn! I'm interested solely in the potential for damage that their entry does here.
They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep.

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

The answers to your questions had been repeated many times, just as you and your friends had asked the same many times. 1. Can't the bleeding hearts have an orgasm over helping the needy in our own midst or doesn't that do it for them anymore? And by bleeding hearts, you mean someone with at least some degree of compassion and ethics.   The answer is yes, the bleeding hearts had been helping the needy in our society.  From the homeless, to the disabled.  From mentally ill to people who are just old and frail.  Bleeding heart giving up their time help ease the suffering.  And yet, our government continue to cut fundings, whilst at the same time, turning a blind eye on their own entitlement and balant tax evasion by big companies.   That I find it, alot more unjustifiable than helping refugees from other countries with genuine need. 2. What am I saying "put their ideals ahead"? They have been conditioned to despise & deprecate their own culture to the point where they'd put up with almost anything. I do believe, like the Mayor of Cologne, they'd try and prevent any criticism of refugee behaviour, even the rape & molestation of our women. Rape and moestation are crimes, but that does not equal what refugees do.  The vast majority just wanted a safe haven for their family.   Its terrible of you to generalize that for all refugees.   By all means, deport or jail any one who have been found guilty.  But leave the innocent majority alone. Refugees consists not only men.  But also women and children.  Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is balant sexism.

Blatant sexism bullshit! There you lot go again. Let's label people who don't have global compassion with some appropriate word from the dictionary of progressive terminology.

What do we do when there is an outbreak of communicable disease? We certainly don't import carriers.
You can't isolate the good refugees from the bad ones, not until after they've done the damage.
Is that what you want?
Well it's not what I want. I want that the damage doesn't come here in the first place.

from what I can make out a group of Syrians are being starved to death by their own countrymen..

I dont care which end of the scale those preventing food from getting through are.. its their own people...

its against humanity...

yet where is the U.N...the silence is almost sickening....yes at last the govt is letting afood convoy through...the stories we are getting is they are eating cats and dogs and evena lion from the zoo.......

dispersing these folks around the world is not going to change anything...it can in fact create pockets of hate and resentment all over the world...more needs to be done to keep these people where they belong.....and to be safe and live in peace....

its that the UNs JOB?

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:03am:

So what does the importation of refugees from these places do for our country?

It boosts the hollow self loving egos of the Libs and Labs, they suffer from "Foreign Big Boy Envy" syndrome, must religiously follow what more powerful nations do, destructive or not, mostly destructive

This youtube might help explain.  It is a Jerry Lewis bash but has some 'good' images and explanations concerning the refugees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyPV58ttT90

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?

This is the mentality you're dealing with:

"They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."  bogarde73

Sociopaths, basically.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:13am: bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:03am: So what does the importation of refugees from these places do for our country? I'm not sure, Bogie. What does it do for the refugees? Frankly Karnal I don't give a damn! I'm interested solely in the potential for damage that their entry does here. They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep.

Would you say the same about famine victims, Bogie? Let them starve to death?

Aussie wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:34am:

This youtube might help explain.  It is a Jerry Lewis bash but has some 'good' images and explanations concerning the refugees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyPV58ttT90

Excellent video.

Jerry has lost the plot.

Don't give me crap irrelevancies Karnal.

You know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people coming from cultural & religious sources incompatible with our Western society.

We don't need them here. What they might need is their problem and I am not interested in their problems, only the problems they might cause here.
Exclude them.

Because Australia contributed to the conflicts that created the refugees including being an ally of Saudi Arabia which is the centre of the universe for extremists, jihadists, terrorists, ISIS and suicide bombers.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:35am:

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:21am: Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is the mentality you're dealing with: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."  bogarde73 Sociopaths, basically.

Well most rational people would be worried about your mentality Greg but it doesn't bother me.
Maybe we go to the same therapist.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:35am: tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:21am: Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is the mentality you're dealing with: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."  bogarde73 Sociopaths, basically. Well most rational people would be worried about your mentality Greg but it doesn't bother me. Maybe we go to the same therapist.

Bogarde's therapist is a phrenologist.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:30am:

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:21am: The answers to your questions had been repeated many times, just as you and your friends had asked the same many times. 1. Can't the bleeding hearts have an orgasm over helping the needy in our own midst or doesn't that do it for them anymore? And by bleeding hearts, you mean someone with at least some degree of compassion and ethics.   The answer is yes, the bleeding hearts had been helping the needy in our society.  From the homeless, to the disabled.  From mentally ill to people who are just old and frail.  Bleeding heart giving up their time help ease the suffering.  And yet, our government continue to cut fundings, whilst at the same time, turning a blind eye on their own entitlement and balant tax evasion by big companies.   That I find it, alot more unjustifiable than helping refugees from other countries with genuine need. 2. What am I saying "put their ideals ahead"? They have been conditioned to despise & deprecate their own culture to the point where they'd put up with almost anything. I do believe, like the Mayor of Cologne, they'd try and prevent any criticism of refugee behaviour, even the rape & molestation of our women. Rape and moestation are crimes, but that does not equal what refugees do.  The vast majority just wanted a safe haven for their family.   Its terrible of you to generalize that for all refugees.   By all means, deport or jail any one who have been found guilty.  But leave the innocent majority alone. Refugees consists not only men.  But also women and children.  Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is balant sexism.  Blatant sexism bullshit! There you lot go again. Let's label people who don't have global compassion with some appropriate word from the dictionary of progressive terminology. What do we do when there is an outbreak of communicable disease? We certainly don't import carriers. You can't isolate the good refugees from the bad ones, not until after they've done the damage. Is that what you want? Well it's not what I want. I want that the damage doesn't come here in the first place.

1. Its alot better than you labeling woman and children as rapists and molesters because of action of some men.   As if actions of a few represents action even of unrelated women and children.  If this is not sexism then what is?   It is so laughable, that you take offense of been labeled, when what you are doing just a post before, is leagues worse, and unjustifiable.

2. Outbreak of disease....  Well, this is a new one.  I encourage you to study and get a bit more informed before you make silly statement such as these.

3. No you cant isolate good refugees from the bad, just as you cant isolate good Australians from the bad ones until they've done damage.  Its the same for everyone else, regardless of race, sex and religion.  And guess what, this is our court system.  This is our belief that one is innocent until proven guilty.   There is NO such thing as pre crime.    This is an ideology that our forefathers have bled and died for.  They bravely faced down barrows of machine guns, and continued to charge in rain of bullets.  I am not going to give away what they have fought for on some irrational fear that some of the refugees may be doing some damage. 

bogarde73, on refugees (including women and children):

"They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep." 

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:47am:

Don't give me crap irrelevancies Karnal. You know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people coming from cultural & religious sources incompatible with our Western society. We don't need them here. What they might need is their problem and I am not interested in their problems, only the problems they might cause here. Exclude them.

A teenager allegedly assaulted numerous women in the water at Surfers Paradise on Tuesday.  Photo: Glenn Hunt

A Victorian teenager has denied claims he sexually assaulted several women at a Gold Coast beach, blaming surf and wind conditions for the contact with the alleged victims.

The 18-year-old Pakistan national has been charged with seven counts of sexual assault, two counts of attempted rape and four counts of common assault.

Southport Magistrates Court heard on Wednesday that the alleged assaults happened in surf between the red and yellow flags at popular Surfers Paradise beach around midday on Tuesday.

Eight women have claimed the man assaulted them.

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The court heard he allegedly attempted to digitally rape two of the women.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gold-coast-beach-assault-accused-denied-bail-20160113-gm4pkv.html#ixzz3x57sufHB
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook
>:( >:(

In reply to tickle:
Global compassion rules supreme over the instinct for survival.

What hope is there for your children with attitudes like that? None

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:07am:

In reply to tickle: Global compassion rules supreme over the instinct for survival. What hope is there for your children with attitudes like that? None

There is always hope.  We just need to work together. 

<< Pale Blue Dot>>

    From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

    The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
    The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

    — Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space, 1997 reprint, pp. xv–xvi

There is always hope.  Be brave, help those in need.  If we all do this, just once a day, then the world will already be a better place. 

bogarde73's views on child refugees:

"They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:17am:

bogarde73's views on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

I am afraid that we now have a full generation who have grown up with the ever popular children overboard lie and the resulting racial (religious) attitudes and biases that have become acceptable by a certain class of individual.

The moral and ethical standard of all of our leaders on this topic has been a disgrace for almost the last 20 years. With no exceptions they have all played off refugees for votes many of them have been dishonest as well as just plane miserable and nasty - very nasty.

The Libs and Labs are way past their use-by date. I'd rather see the dusty dirt road outside my place sealed than see any more money spent on refugees. A decent internet connection would be nice too, one dark cloud in the sky blocking satellite, off goes the connection ... and for the TV

One thing I've really noticed since I decentralized from the big city, Australia has the worst roads in the world and getting worse. Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy

With all the wealth Australia is supposed to have, I'd like to know where it is, it's certainly not in government coffers for 21st century infrastructure or living

It's about time we called the Libs and Labs out for what they really are - Shonks, money wasters and deceivers

"It's never been a better time to be Australian", yeah right! only a LibLab politician could pull BS like that out of a box of tricks

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:39am:

One thing I've really noticed since I decentralized from the big city, Australia has the worst roads in the world and getting worse. Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy

Compared to which country?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:17am:

bogarde73's views on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

As long as they are Middle Eastern muzzies - then I support that view

Aussie wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:34am:

This youtube might help explain.  It is a Jerry Lewis bash but has some 'good' images and explanations concerning the refugees.

The Young Turks is a pro-Democrats show

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:16am:

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 11:07am: In reply to tickle: Global compassion rules supreme over the instinct for survival. What hope is there for your children with attitudes like that? None There is always hope.  We just need to work together.  << Pale Blue Dot>>     From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.     The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.     The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.     — Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space, 1997 reprint, pp. xv–xvi There is always hope.  Be brave, help those in need.  If we all do this, just once a day, then the world will already be a better place.

each person is their own universe.

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Refugees consists not only men.  But also women and children.  Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is balant sexism.

Why do Australians have to suffer so can feel good about letting in women and children that are not Australians?

Australians First

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:35am:

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:21am: Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is the mentality you're dealing with:

Sure, but this mentality is carefully cultivated. It's not Bogey's fault he doesn't know any refugees or hasn't been to any war zones or places of extreme suffering.

Our media celebrates consumption. To keep people reading and viewing, it has to provide a taste of luxury. Showing how the other three quarters live is not good for audience share. Showing Assad's torture cells or Karbul's tent cities or Pakistan's gang warfare doesn't get ratings.

This makes people think everyone in the world has the same lifestyles and choices open to them, when in reality many in the world are forced to flee certain death. It also makes people complacent. Our wealth comes with responsibilities, but these have been obscured. The media leads us to believe our responsibility is to pamper ourselves and consume. It's a self-fulfilling narrative. The more we consume, the emptier we feel, so we keep consuming to fill the void. We keep the focus on ourselves. We pretend everyone in the world has the same opportunities open to them as we do, and if they don't, it's their own fault. We blame them, and to keep our vanity intact, we pretend we're smarter, more efficient, morally superior. We pretend we are intrinsically superior, as if this is genetic. We pretend things have always been this way, as if we were a different species of human - as if we were gods. We allow ourselves to keep such delusions going, and we create clever excuses as to why we should only look after ourselves, or at the very most, people we deem to be just like us.

It's not Bogie's fault. As social media expands and the world becomes more integrated, it is becoming increasingly difficult to hide the rest of the world's suffering. Our excuses must become more and more bizarre. Fortunately, events conspire to give us reasons: those responsible for the Paris attacks included a couple of refugees, so refugees must be dangerous. All our pampering and self indulgence comes with a suppressed fear of death, and this translates into a heightened focus on security. Any threat - a plot, a threat, an inferred thought - justifies the security, which keeps growing. Sure there have been no major terrorist attacks on Australian soil, but there are always suspicions, and when there aren't, we can point elsewhere. It's always better to be safe than sorry, right?

It can hardly be Bogey's fault that he's not aware of the real suffering most of the world endures. Nor is it Bogey's fault that he's not exposed to any genuine acts of selflessness and generosity. The media sells human transactions as predominantly financial, buying and selling. It ignores the kindness that bonds people, from parents to communities. The belief that we are responsible for ourselves leads us to forget that we were all nurtured from infancy at no cost to us. Sometime, we will be nurtured into death as well. We are responsible for very little of our circumstances, but we are led to believe that we are. Sometimes our transactions are responsible - everything we own is put together by someone, and usually someone much poorer than us. Once again, we put this down to a transaction and forget that billions of people spend their lives making the things we surround ourselves with. The media largely ignores this as well. People in Bangladesh are free to work for a dollar a day making the clothes on our backs. We're all free to choose, right?

Maybe, maybe not. If Bogey knew what it is like to flee a war, it is very unlikely he'd say he doesn't care. Compassion comes from understanding, it's not an act or a posture. The image of a dead refugee child being pulled out of the water by Turkish authorities effected many people. It influenced world leaders who have the ability to change things and make things happen. An image like that managed to pierce through everything we tell ourselves about how good we are and how bad the rest are. One image.

You can block these things out, and many do, but you can't block it out forever. When you see and experience other people's suffering, you want to help. Very few people are psychopaths. All of what we think and do is driven by the things we experience and the stories that surround us.

Bogey's lack of compassion for other people is not a cause, it's a symptom.

bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees:

"They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:01pm:

bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

Pecker's view

"Australia must import more suicide bombers"

Maqqa wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:01pm: bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep." Pecker's view "Australia must import more suicide bombers"

I can not recall us having any suicide bombers ?

Probably more luck than good management we have certainly been trying our best to attract their attention.

It's not Carnal's fault she can't fathom the depths of her own hypocrisy. Keep slamming anglo-saxon civilisation. Keep slamming Christianity. Keep slamming free enterprise. Hell, even keep slamming down those Big Macs. Whatever you do, don't go home to your tinted brothers and sisters and pick up a Kalishnikov, eh Carny?

The US needs to get off its addiction to oil and stop meddling in the middle east and then it can tell the muzzie refugees to piss off. Same with Australia and rest of the coalition of the killing. They created this hole and now they have to lie in it !!

Note the smart chinese have nothing to do with all of this garbage. They don't waste a single cent on any of it  ;)

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:39am:

One thing I've really noticed since I decentralized from the big city, Australia has the worst roads in the world and getting worse. Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy

It's not Bias's fault he believes this. He's just never been to the developing world.

It is amazing, though, that all that education and knowledge pumped into people in a country like Australia could lead them to think that Australia's roads and water and health services are the worst in the world. Imagine how people in Africa or India would think if they read such a statement.

Beliefs like this aren't the cause, they're the symptom.

captain spaulding wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

It's not Carnal's fault she can't fathom the depths of her own hypocrisy. Keep slamming anglo-saxon civilisation. Keep slamming Christianity. Keep slamming free enterprise. Hell, even keep slamming down those Big Macs. Whatever you do, don't go home to your tinted brothers and sisters and pick up a Kalishnikov, eh Carny?

I had no idea you'd converted to Christianity, but I respect your decision. Remember the parable of the good Samaritan, Homo.

Man does not live on bread alone, but by the very word of God.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:07pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:01pm: bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep." Pecker's view "Australia must import more suicide bombers" I can not recall us having any suicide bombers ? Probably more luck than good management we have certainly been trying our best to attract their attention.

That's why Pecker wants to import them

Dnarever wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:07pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:01pm: bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep." Pecker's view "Australia must import more suicide bombers" I can not recall us having any suicide bombers ?

That's because you deal in facts.

Here's an interesting fact ...

bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees:

"They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

Pecker believe Aust should import more terrorists

Dnarever wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

I can not recall us having any suicide bombers ?

Why would Maqqa make up such a lie?

Is he planning something, perhaps?

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 11:39am: One thing I've really noticed since I decentralized from the big city, Australia has the worst roads in the world and getting worse. Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy It's not Bias's fault he believes this. He's just never been to the developing world. It is amazing, though, that all that education and knowledge pumped into people in a country like Australia could lead them to think that Australia's roads and water and health services are the worst in the world. Imagine how people in Africa or India would think if they read such a statement. Beliefs like this aren't the cause, they're the symptom.

Roads: "worst in the world" (figure of speech, but the roads are derelict and getting worse)

Now where did I say water and health were the worst in the world ? Talk about education, you need to learn to read

Try again to comprehend if you can ...

"Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy"

What about the othe great verse from the Bible, Carnal? 'You don't have to take s.h.i.t from anyone'. Of course that includes 'guests'.

captain spaulding wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 1:21pm:

What about the othe great verse from the Bible, Carnal? 'You don't have to take s.h.i.t from anyone'. Of course that includes 'guests'.

It doesn't say that, Homo. Jesus talked about turning the other cheek when you've been hit. I've never read a passage about not taking s.h.i.t from anyone, including guests.

Every church and Christian organization I know about is asking Australia to take in more refugees, give more in foreign aid, give more to the UNHCR. All the big ones, including the Anglican and Catholic churches have officially condemned mandatory detention and offshore processing.

Is there a missing piece here, Homo? Something I haven't heard?

Please explain.

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 11:39am: One thing I've really noticed since I decentralized from the big city, Australia has the worst roads in the world and getting worse. Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy It's not Bias's fault he believes this. He's just never been to the developing world. It is amazing, though, that all that education and knowledge pumped into people in a country like Australia could lead them to think that Australia's roads and water and health services are the worst in the world. Imagine how people in Africa or India would think if they read such a statement. Beliefs like this aren't the cause, they're the symptom. Roads: "worst in the world" (figure of speech, but the roads are derelict and getting worse) Now where did I say water and health were the worst in the world ? Talk about education, you need to learn to read Try again to comprehend if you can ... "Many small towns and villages have no town water. Health services are basic and risky to the point where unnecessary deaths are just a statistic and swept under the carpet. Power outages amount to 30-45 per year, this is normal I've been told by Endeavour Energy"

Sorry, Bias, I might have misunderstood your original post. I think you meant that we should only help people fleeing war when we've made Australian roads, electricity, water and health services the best in the world.

Is this right?

captain spaulding wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 1:21pm:

What about the othe great verse from the Bible, Carnal? 'You don't have to take s.h.i.t from anyone'. Of course that includes 'guests'.

What about the one that says "You don't have to take goat meat from tree-loppers".

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:56am:

bogarde73, on refugees (including women and children): "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."

Whereas you, mothra and the rest of your sorry apologists for surrendering your country to other peoples' interests would prefer that we admit dangerous adherents to an alien culture and religion that in time would make this country the hell-hole that is Europe now.

I know I'm right and you're wrong.

Aussie wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:34am:

This youtube might help explain.  It is a Jerry Lewis bash but has some 'good' images and explanations concerning the refugees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyPV58ttT90

Disgraceful ... I was a huge Jerry fan .. seen him perform live and I have all his videos. Never again. The videos are going into the bin. He should be ashamed of himself.

PS Shut up Karnal.
Don't profess to explain why I think or believe what I do.
You know nothing or in fact a little less than that.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:15pm:

PS Shut up Karnal.

Sorry, Bogey, are you trying to censor people?

We don't value this sort of thing in the West. We have a thing called freedom of speech.

Apparently the Muselman is trying to take this away, but so far, I just keep seeing evidence of non-Muslims trying to shut people up.

tickleandrose wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

The answers to your questions had been repeated many times, just as you and your friends had asked the same many times. 1. Can't the bleeding hearts have an orgasm over helping the needy in our own midst or doesn't that do it for them anymore? And by bleeding hearts, you mean someone with at least some degree of compassion and ethics.   The answer is yes, the bleeding hearts had been helping the needy in our society.  From the homeless, to the disabled.  From mentally ill to people who are just old and frail.  Bleeding heart giving up their time help ease the suffering.  And yet, our government continue to cut fundings, whilst at the same time, turning a blind eye on their own entitlement and balant tax evasion by big companies.   That I find it, alot more unjustifiable than helping refugees from other countries with genuine need. 2. What am I saying "put their ideals ahead"? They have been conditioned to despise & deprecate their own culture to the point where they'd put up with almost anything. I do believe, like the Mayor of Cologne, they'd try and prevent any criticism of refugee behaviour, even the rape & molestation of our women. Rape and moestation are crimes, but that does not equal what refugees do.  The vast majority just wanted a safe haven for their family.   Its terrible of you to generalize that for all refugees.   By all means, deport or jail any one who have been found guilty.  But leave the innocent majority alone. Refugees consists not only men.  But also women and children.  Why do women and children have to suffer for what those men have done?  This is balant sexism.

bravo
[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:56am: bogarde73, on refugees (including women and children): "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."  Whereas you, mothra and the rest of your sorry apologists for surrendering your country to other peoples' interests would prefer that we admit dangerous adherents to an alien culture and religion that in time would make this country the hell-hole that is Europe now. I know I'm right and you're wrong.

Thats hypocrisy.    Our country had a direct part in bringing down the government of Iraq, and then attempted to bring down Syrian Assad.   We did all that, because people like you think we can remove the tyrants, and bring freedom, compassion and justice to the region.  Then we realized that we have stuffed up, the region instead plunge into chaos and lawlessness.   And now, the people of the region come to us for help, all of sudden, out of fear, we throw our freedom, compassion and justice down the gutter.   Shame on all of you far rights.

Look I've had my say and I get bored with endless argument.
You carry on . . .I've given you a play pen, have fun

Maqqa wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:11pm: Maqqa wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:07pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:01pm: bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep." Pecker's view "Australia must import more suicide bombers" I can not recall us having any suicide bombers ? Probably more luck than good management we have certainly been trying our best to attract their attention. That's why Pecker wants to import them

How many genuine terrorists do you think would be willing to sit in an inturnment village for 8 or 10 years in order to get to PNG ?

You are kidding right ?

Even when we had Australian detention it would not have been a good plan to sit in an Australian detention centre for 8 years or more while being fully checked out in order to get into Australia.

Taking a route guaranteed to have a full investigation into the persons background would be a stupid plan for any terrorist.

Any real terrorists would be wearing a nice suit and travelling first class with all their papers stamped.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 10:56am: bogarde73, on refugees (including women and children): "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep."  Whereas you, mothra and the rest of your sorry apologists for surrendering your country to other peoples' interests would prefer that we admit dangerous adherents to an alien culture and religion that in time would make this country the hell-hole that is Europe now.

Have you been to Europe lately? I'd be keen to hear your observations, Bogey.

When I was there, it was lovely - nothing like Syria, which I've only seen on the news.

I'm not sure what you mean by dangerous adherents to an alien culture. Europe is full of Arab cultural references. Grapes from Shiraz, croissants from Egypt (croissant means crescent), kebabs and cous cous and Arab quarters - Arabic numerals. Pizza (originally an Arab dish).

I've been to some of Europe's Arab districts (in Berlin and Vienna), just as I live in one of our own - a Lebanese suburb in Sydney. I couldn't see anything alien or incompatible about a bunch of shops selling Arabic produce and old blokes sitting around drinking Lebanese coffee.

If you're going to present an argument about something, I think you should at least make it realistic. It really doesn't help getting hysterical about things. Hyperbole is best left out. No one is going to come around to your argument if it's just a mad rant.

As St Paul said in Corinthians, "if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I have not love, I am as a resounding gong or clanging symbol".

Homo should like that one.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:24pm:

Look I've had my say and I get bored with endless argument. You carry on . . .I've given you a play pen, have fun

That's more like it, Bogey - much more tolerant and considerate.

We'll all take note of your thoughts here.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:29pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:16pm: Dnarever wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:11pm: Maqqa wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:07pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:01pm: bogarde73 and Maqqa's view on child refugees: "They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep." Pecker's view "Australia must import more suicide bombers" I can not recall us having any suicide bombers ? Probably more luck than good management we have certainly been trying our best to attract their attention. That's why Pecker wants to import them How many genuine terrorists do you think would be willing to sit in an inturnment village for 8 or 10 years in order to get to PNG ? You are kidding right ? Even when we had Australian detention it would not have been a good plan to sit in an Australian detention centre for 8 years or more while being fully checked out in order to get into Australia. Taking a route guaranteed to have a full investigation into the persons background would be a stupid plan for any terrorist. Any real terrorists would be wearing a nice suit and travelling first class with all their papers stamped.

Any real terrorists would be coming in on a tourist visa. Why would you go to all the trouble of seeking asylum or immigrating, just to blow yourself up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDllXqN684o

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

Pizza (originally an Arab dish).

:o :o :o :o

blasphemer .


you wash your mouth out for spreading such lies.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:07pm:

I know I'm right and you're wrong.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:07pm:

... the hell-hole that is Europe now.

You watch too much ACA.

Go there, and see for yourself.

It's wonderful.

I'm off to Germany, Austria, and Slovenia again in the near future.

If I get attacked by the big bad Muzzies, I'll let you know.

;D

John Smith wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:02pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 2:38pm: Pizza (originally an Arab dish). :o :o :o :o blasphemer . you wash your mouth out for spreading such lies.

It's true. And pasta is a Chinese invention. The humble potato? An American Indian import, like corn - like chilies, a popular Asian import.

I can't think of much that is an inherently European thing. Paper, printing, bread, tiles - all Chinese or Middle Eastern inventions.

Oh, Homo would say this rails against Anglo-Saxon culture, but I'm a bit confused about what Anglo-Saxons have come up with themselves. Viking ships maybe. Drinking vessels made from horns.

The British were at their best when they adapted things - Indian food and textiles, Chinese furniture and ceramics. Even modern popular music is adapted from African American and West Indian culture.

The English are excellent at accommodating other cultures - a legacy, perhaps, of their colonization by the Romans and French. Like New York, London is one of the world's great immigrant cities.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:08pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 2:07pm: ... the hell-hole that is Europe now. You watch too much ACA. Go there, and see for yourself. It's wonderful. I'm off to Germany, Austria, and Slovenia again in the near future. If I get attacked by the big bad Muzzies, I'll let you know. ;D

Vienna is a great city. It's filled with Arabs and Turks. To my knowledge, they've never had any bombings or terrorist attacks either - like us.

The only Austrian terrorism I can think of was WWII.

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:24pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 3:08pm: bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 2:07pm: ... the hell-hole that is Europe now. You watch too much ACA. Go there, and see for yourself. It's wonderful. I'm off to Germany, Austria, and Slovenia again in the near future. If I get attacked by the big bad Muzzies, I'll let you know. ;D Vienna is a great city. It's filled with Arabs and Turks.

Indeed.

I made friends with some Turks there last year. Delightful fellows.

The only people who bother me in Vienna, are the locals who blow smoke my way while I'm eating in a restaurant.

Ban them.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 3:24pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 3:08pm: bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 2:07pm: ... the hell-hole that is Europe now. You watch too much ACA. Go there, and see for yourself. It's wonderful. I'm off to Germany, Austria, and Slovenia again in the near future. If I get attacked by the big bad Muzzies, I'll let you know. ;D Vienna is a great city. It's filled with Arabs and Turks. Indeed. I made friends with some Turks there last year. Delightful fellows. The only people who bother me in Vienna, are the locals who blow smoke my way while I'm eating in a restaurant. Ban them.

Yes, Europe is still one of the last great places you can smoke in peace. Everybody smokes.

I can't think of one great city that hasn't been made great through immigration. Can you?

I'm sure one must exist.

Oh, very sorry, Carnal. That verse didn't make the final draft. Same as the bit about  flooding your country with lazy, uneducated, idle criminals.

captain spaulding wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 4:16pm:

Oh, very sorry, Carnal. That verse didn't make the final draft. Same as the bit about  flooding your country with lazy, uneducated, idle criminals.

No worries, Homo, nobody said you have to be a Christian.

You can become a Muslim if that appeals to you. That's the marvelous thing about our enlightened Western culture.

Freedom of religion, innit.

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:22pm:

It's true. And pasta is a Chinese invention. The humble potato? An American Indian import, like corn - like chilies, a popular Asian import.

It is not true. Pizza by definition has the topping cooked on it, the bread from the middle east that you are referring to was cooked separately (usually on their shields) and then had toppings added before being consumed.


Oh, and you forgot the humble tomato ... also from the Americas ... imagine pasta before Bolognaise sauce .... the Chinese were heathens   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Sorry, Bias, I might have misunderstood your original post. I think you meant that we should only help people fleeing war when we've made Australian roads, electricity, water and health services the best in the world.

Is this right?  - Karnal


That's correct, if you want to read it that way. More to the point, fix those problems for existing residents first  ....and then, persuade the belligerent Libs and Labs to stay out of other nations they have no right to go into without a direct threat to Australia

Read the relevant clause in the Constitution ....

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:

(vi)  the naval and military defence of the Commonwealth and of the several States, and the control of the forces to execute and maintain the laws of the Commonwealth;

If the Lib Lab politicians don't understand this simply clause, can't expect their followers to understand it

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

Frankly Karnal I don't give a damn!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnTWxpTQt4




bogarde73 wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

I'm interested solely in the potential for damage that their entry does here. They can rot in their own countries and I won't lose a minute's sleep.

The best place for Muslims is in their own neck of the woods - not ours.

Karnal wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:22pm:

And pasta is a Chinese invention. The humble potato? An American Indian import, like corn - like chilies, a popular Asian import.

Correct, but you forgot spaghetti.

Marco Polo brought it back from China.

Stir-fried toilet insects? - Again, another First for China.   8-)

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 7:30pm:

The best place for Muslims is in their own neck of the woods -

The same could be said for you, Herbie.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 7:37pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 3:22pm: And pasta is a Chinese invention. The humble potato? An American Indian import, like corn - like chilies, a popular Asian import. Correct, but you forgot spaghetti. Marco Polo brought it back from China.

"And pasta is a Chinese invention."

::)

Yep Karnal, war is required for people to become refugees from war-torn countries. Not hard is it ? how many more illegal wars do you want ?

If there weren't refugees and Muslims, Maqqa would leave his wood shed and become a public nuisance. Allah forbid!

No matter how much you rant, Karnal, it's not going to eradicate the group survival instinct that drives ethnic conflict. Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic(?) have already closed their borders to 'refugees'. How long do you think other countries will hold out? İf one of the 'big 3' turn, how long do you think it will be before the dominos fall one by one?

One great city that hasn’t been made that way by immigration, Mistie. Where do you think?

I’m wondering about Barcelona. I haven’t been there, but I’ve heard it’s nice.

How about Bangkok?

Scrap Bangkok. It became great after the king let the French do some building and let foreign traders move in. The good thing about Bangkok is the unique Thainess of the place, but also the efficient balance between east and west. Bangkok really hit its stride in the past two decades, all thanks to foreign trade and finance, and largely due to tourism.

All the Yanks did to the place was turn it into a brothel. Bangkok houses plenty of refugees and immigrants. Iranians and Israelis escaping the draft are fond of the place. It’s always housed Chinese escaping plots and the revolution. Indian suit makers have taken over the tourist areas. It’s been full of Burmese and Cambodians for centuries. Mind you, they’re hardly treated equally. As for the ethnic Chinese, they do the majority of the business.

I love Bangkok. To me, it’s one of the world’s great cities. Sorry for the rant, Mistie.

Lost your tongue Kanal ? how many more wars do you want ?

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 8:49am:

Lost you tongue Kanal ? how many more wars do you want ?

Sorry, Bias? I'm confused.

Karnal wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 9:21am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 8:49am: Lost you tongue Kanal ? how many more wars do you want ? Sorry, Bias? I'm confused.

"help people fleeing war" - Kanal #43

"how many more illegal wars do you want ?" - Bias #72


Yep I understand your confusion. Anyone who supports refugee intake from an illegal war only helps to encourage more illegal wars. Joining the warmongers as you have unwittingly done, depletes your credibility. Have a nice day

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 10:26am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 9:21am: Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 8:49am: Lost you tongue Kanal ? how many more wars do you want ? Sorry, Bias? I'm confused. "help people fleeing war" - Kanal #43 "how many more illegal wars do you want ?" - Bias #72 Yep I understand your confusion. Anyone who supports refugee intake from an illegal war is only helps to encouraging more illegal wars. Joining the warmongers as you have unwittingly done, depletes your credibility. Have a nice day

Gee. You got me there, Bias. I must be the Genghis Khan of this site.

Because a gene infusion is necessary to stop Australian people becoming insipid.

Karnal wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 8:14am:

One great city that hasn’t been made that way by immigration, Mistie. Where do you think? I’m wondering about Barcelona. I haven’t been there, but I’ve heard it’s nice. How about Bangkok?

Wtf is this? Immigration makes all cities therefore mass rape, violence and sexual assault is acceptable from immigrants?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:28pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 8:14am: One great city that hasn’t been made that way by immigration, Mistie. Where do you think? I’m wondering about Barcelona. I haven’t been there, but I’ve heard it’s nice. How about Bangkok? Wtf is this? Immigration makes all cities therefore mass rape, violence and sexual assault is acceptable from immigrants?

I disagree, Mistie. Mass rape, violence and sexual assault is never tolerated by immigrants. Here in Australia, we even.deport them. The Kiwis can’t stand it.

Lucky you can’t do this to moi, eh?

Once you get cornered you go full retard. Have you ever thought all that Foucauldian garbage you have read stunted your debating skills?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:50pm:

Once you get cornered you go full retard. Have you ever thought all that Foucauldian garbage you have read stunted your debating skills?

Cornered? Moi? How could I ever be cornered?

You’re not trying to rape me are you, Mistie?

Perhaps you could explain how ending immigration will prevent mass rape, violence and sexual assault and we can start from there.

Then, we can discuss your own emigration - to Turkey, wasn’t it?

You can’t rape me, dear. I consent.

Karnal wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:57pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:50pm: Once you get cornered you go full retard. Have you ever thought all that Foucauldian garbage you have read stunted your debating skills? Cornered? Moi? How could I ever be cornered? You’re not trying to rape me are you, Mistie? Perhaps you could explain how ending immigration will prevent mass rape, violence and sexual assault and we can start from there.

Derrida deconstruction?


Quote:

Then, we can discuss your own emigration - to Turkey, wasn’t it?

Feel free.


Quote:

You can’t rape me, dear. I consent.

Wtf is this sh*t? Is this some 'progressive' transgressive crap you picked up at uni?

Yes, dear. I leaned it at the uni. Derrida.deconstruction.

Can I ask something though? Are the Turks in danger of you mass raping them?

Remember, there are no right or.wrong.answers here,, Mistie. You’ve raised the tone of the debate, so let’s be serious for a tick.

Karnal wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:57pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:50pm: Once you get cornered you go full retard. Have you ever thought all that Foucauldian garbage you have read stunted your debating skills? Cornered? Moi? How could I ever be cornered? You’re not trying to rape me are you, Mistie? Perhaps you could explain how ending immigration will prevent mass rape, violence and sexual assault and we can start from there. Then, we can discuss your own emigration - to Turkey, wasn’t it? You can’t rape me, dear. I consent.

Ending immigration by unassimilating Muslims who are responsible for a massive spike in European sexual assaults and rapes would be useful, practical and measurable first step.

Have a look - all the cases are documented and linked. Do take the opportunity to check the links to see for yourself. It is all documented.  Not a single unsubstantiated hearsay claim. Samples:


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

Immigrants are needed to improve the Australian gene pool. Otherwise Australians become insipid no-hopers like Nazi Soren

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 10:06pm:

Immigrants are needed to improve the Australian gene pool. Otherwise Australians become insipid no-hopers like Nazi Soren

Current gene pool:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4055/4575823435_c9dac66de9.jpg


Your idea of "improvement":
https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b36cfc0c6fdf1fffa4362a7b57ce1015?convert_to_webp=true

Soren wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 10:02pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:57pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 6:50pm: Once you get cornered you go full retard. Have you ever thought all that Foucauldian garbage you have read stunted your debating skills? Cornered? Moi? How could I ever be cornered? You’re not trying to rape me are you, Mistie? Perhaps you could explain how ending immigration will prevent mass rape, violence and sexual assault and we can start from there. Then, we can discuss your own emigration - to Turkey, wasn’t it? You can’t rape me, dear. I consent. Ending immigration by unassimilating Muslims who are responsible for a massive spike in European sexual assaults and rapes would be useful, practical and measurable first step. Have a look - all the cases are documented and linked. Do take the opportunity to check the links to see for yourself. It is all documented.  Not a single unsubstantiated hearsay claim. Samples: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

I say, old boy, you wouldn’t happen to be a dirty immigrant too, now would you?

Don’t rape me, please. I’m British. Mistie’s got first dibs on cornering me.

Mistie, you see, has signed up.to become a Turk.

Soren wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 10:24pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:06pm: Immigrants are needed to improve the Australian gene pool. Otherwise Australians become insipid no-hopers like Nazi Soren Current gene pool: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4055/4575823435_c9dac66de9.jpg Your idea of "improvement": https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b36cfc0c6fdf1fffa4362a7b57ce1015?convert_to_webp=true

The "improvement" is less insipid than the "current gene pool" as I foresaw.

I said I'd had my say and wouldn't say any more in this thread but needs must

Europe's just fine, sure it is, Karnal's going there I think he said and it's lovely. Refugees - or invaders as I prefer to call them- are no problem.

Austria:
Going there are you Karnal? Pick up a gun when you arrive.

Austrian police records in Vienna and the Styria district bordering Slovenia show the number of applications for handgun permits has risen fourfold in the past months, while firearms dealers say the number of weapons sales has skyrocketed.

An average of 100 permits were issued in Vienna up until September 2015, according to police. The number doubled in October and reached 457 permits in November, according to police records.

“Especially in the last four months of 2015, we saw a massive increase in demand for weapons. Most people said they wanted a weapon because they didn’t feel safe,” a local police representative told the media. . . . .

“Most people said they wanted a weapon because they didn’t feel safe,” Herbert Fuik, police spokesman for the southeast Austria state of Styria, said.

“Because of the social change, people want to protect themselves,” an arms dealer told the Austrian broadcaster oe24.
(RT)

Germany:
A confidential interior ministry report, obtained by German daily Bild, says that home-grown lone wolves and Islamic State fighters returning from Syria are likely preparing elaborate attacks on civilian targets inside the country. . . . .

Security forces believe terrorists will use “multiple, time-staggered attacks on varied targets” to create a sense of overwhelming panic and lasting fear. The blueprint highlighted by the authors is the Paris attacks, which involved half a dozen different targets, most of them in close proximity, as the Islamist terrorists gunned down Parisians inside a nightclub and a café. The Charlie Hebdo attacks a year ago also involved similar coordinated tactics.

Just as then, terrorists will likely attack “soft or symbolic targets,” with the authors stating that “any public or sporting events, either indoors or outdoors are a security risk.”
(RT)

The head of a Bavarian district has sent a bus with 30 refugees aboard on a 550km trip to Angela Merkel’s Berlin office – fulfilling a threat made in October, when he said he would act if the number of refugees exceeded housing capacity in his area.
Peter Dreier, head of the Landshut district in Bavaria, reportedly had an angry phone conversation with Chancellor Angela Merkel to discuss the refugee issue back in October, Die Welt newspaper reports. “We can’t do it [taking in all the refugees]!” – he said, knowingly inverting Merkel’s famous “We can do it” slogan, which the chancellor made in the summer 2015 in reference to the high number of refugees Germany was taking.
(RT)

A German police officer told media that law enforcement cannot efficiently tackle crime among refugees without being accused of excessive violence or racism, while many dangerous incidents are played down or kept secret to maintain desirable statistics. . . . .

“At first, mostly families with children – who looked educated and spoke English – were coming here,” the officer told. “Meanwhile, 95 percent of refugees are now single men.” . . .

Referring to abuse and harassment against women, similar to those that took place in Cologne on New Year’s Eve, the officer said such cases are widespread in Bavaria as well.

“At the train station, women are sexually harassed and offended on regular basis. When we speak of an entry ban [to the area], they would shout on us: ‘You are not my police. You are a racist’.”
(RT)

Yep, all looking good. Let's bring in truckloads.

Bogie, my only question is where refugees should go when they can't live in their country of origin. To be honest, I'm not that interested in Austrian gun ownership or people being harassed at train stations.

The question for me is what we do with people who've had their homes and their livelihoods taken away. I think the best thing for Syrians is to return to Syria, but that's impossible while there's a massive civil war going on.

I'm not in favour of non-refugees heading off to Europe to move in and call Europeans racists. This isn't fair. As far as I can tell, Europe has done everything in its power to accommodate those escaping war. It has definitely been nicer to refugees than Australia.

My other argument here has been about the historical importance of immigration. Refugees and immigrants have become two separate categories, when throughout history this has never been the case. We never distinguished between refugees and economic migrants after WWII, for example, but those were different times. We needed the people.

Borders are a very new phenomenon. In the past, people were subject to monarchs as opposed to states. Serfs were owned by their lords, slaves were owned by their masters, and all were subject to the crown or emperor. Citizenship in ancient Rome had distinct advantages, including free bread, but the borders were porous. Up until the 20th century, people could travel anywhere. Until only very recently, it was quite common for entire classes of people, such as merchants, to live and travel freely. The passport - and the border - is a very new phenomenon.

Things changed with the Cold War and the introduction of the welfare state. I understand there are limits, and I believe these need to be spelt out. I also believe we need to distinguish between genuine refugees and economic migrants. Europe, it seems, is only starting to come to terms with this. With 50 million refugees in the world today, I don't think it's fair for them to suffer while ambitious people from poor countries join them in seeking asylum.

But those refugees need to go somewhere. We do not close the borders to war zones and watch civilians being killed as a result. You might be in favour of this, but to my knowledge, no country in the world would accept this. As an example, there are about 6 million Syrians accommodated temporarily in Lebanon and Turkey. As another example, there are over a million Afghan and Central Asian refugees accommodated in Pakistan.

Oh, and they're all Muslim countries.

If poor countries can take in huge numbers of people, temporarily or permanently, then we definitely can. It seems to me that if the choice is between people being harassed at train stations or people being killed by bullets and mortars, I'd be going with option 1.

Being European or white does not exclude us from protecting fellow humans. Having nice, rich countries does not mean we should exclude people who aren't nice and rich. I'd say the opposite is the case: we have an even greater responsibility to help. Having a different culture to those seeking refuge doesn't work either. Turkey is accommodating Arabs. Pakistan is accommodating a host of different tribes and ethnicities. All these people speak different languages and have different customs to their host countries.

Security is important, but it just goes to show the importance of screening. We haven't had a Paris attack (or Lebanon or Turkey or even Jakarta attack) in Australia. This is to do with screening, but also good policing. Bomb plots can be prevented - bomb ingredients are carefully monitored. Semi automatic weapons are restricted. Sure, a 15 year old kid with a pistol can hurt or kill someone. A crazed guy with a rifle can kill three people and even get the Sydney CBD shut down for a day.

Ultimately, of course, there is no way to prevent such crimes. People would still murder and hold people to ransom even if you did ban all refugees, immigrants or even tourists. Many of those who've left Australia to join ISIS were born here. Some were Muslim converts. Banning religion is impossible - banning extremism even more so.

I can see no sensible or humane reason to prevent civilians fleeing war zones, and I can see no reason to prevent them coming to the West. If you can provide one, I'm all ears, but the "we don't want them here" argument is pointless. That's not a reason at all.

USA should be taking most of the refugees because it is USA policy and acts of war that has caused the problems.

Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states should be taking millions of refugees instead of the zero they are currently taking.

Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes.

Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards.

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards.

Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards?

Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding?

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards.

You appear to have expertise in descent from cowards. Care to explain?

Karnal wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:20pm: Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards. Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards? Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding?

Not my problem.  I deal in facts, what you do with them is up to you.

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:34pm: ... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:20pm: Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards. Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards? Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding? Not my problem.

Others would disagree.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:44pm:

... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:42pm: Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:34pm: ... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:20pm: Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards. Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards? Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding? Not my problem.  Others would disagree.

Yes, well they should learn their history.

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:34pm: ... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:20pm: Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards. Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards? Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding? Not my problem.  I deal in facts, what you do with them is up to you.

Those cowardly Arab genes are shared by the Jews, no?

Sinister.

Karnal wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:54pm:

... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:42pm: Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:34pm: ... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:20pm: Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards. Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards? Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding? Not my problem.  I deal in facts, what you do with them is up to you. Those cowardly Arab genes are shared by the Jews, no? Sinister.

No.  The diaspora insures against localised catastrophe reducing the gene pool to the depth of a puddle of piss.

... wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:56pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:54pm: ... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:42pm: Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:34pm: ... wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:20pm: Any beneficial arab genes were wiped out by the mongols 800 years ago.  There aint no benefit coming from a race descended from a handful of cowards. Right. So what should you do if you happen to be born into a race descended from a handful of cowards? Kill your family? Kill yourself? Stop breeding? Not my problem.  I deal in facts, what you do with them is up to you. Those cowardly Arab genes are shared by the Jews, no? Sinister. No.  The diaspora insures against localised catastrophe reducing the gene pool to the depth of a puddle of piss.

Poms and closet poms have Arab genes. Its the only thing holding them together.

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes.

What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes. What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind

You exemplify my argument. You are incapable of independent thought because of corruption of your genes.

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes. What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind

That's not racism, Bias. Prisoners Of Mother England are not a race.

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:00pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:58pm: Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes. What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind You exemplify my argument. You are incapable of independent thought because of corruption of your genes.

Yes, but I'd hold off killing myself if I was Bias. They're making new developments in gene therapy every day.

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:00pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:58pm: Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes. What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind You exemplify my argument. You are incapable of independent thought because of corruption of your genes.

That's correct, my independent thought is that you are a freaky insidious racist

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:00pm: Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:58pm: Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes. What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind You exemplify my argument. You are incapable of independent thought because of corruption of your genes. That's correct, my independent thought is that you are a freaky insidious racist

Are you training for show business?

A ventriloquist dummy?

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:16pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:12pm: Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:00pm: Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:58pm: Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 12:12pm: Australia badly needs the genetic benefit it will get from refugees to forestall the creeping insipidness of closet pom genes. What needs forestalling is the freaky insidious racism in your weird single issue mind You exemplify my argument. You are incapable of independent thought because of corruption of your genes. That's correct, my independent thought is that you are a freaky insidious racist Are you training for show business? A ventriloquist dummy?

Just go and get some therapy for your racism, come back when you're cured

Karnal wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

Bogie, my only question is where refugees should go when they can't live in their country of origin. To be honest, I'm not that interested in Austrian gun ownership or people being harassed at train stations. The question for me is what we do with people who've had their homes and their livelihoods taken away. I think the best thing for Syrians is to return to Syria, but that's impossible while there's a massive civil war going on. I'm not in favour of non-refugees heading off to Europe to move in and call Europeans racists. This isn't fair. As far as I can tell, Europe has done everything in its power to accommodate those escaping war. It has definitely been nicer to refugees than Australia. My other argument here has been about the historical importance of immigration. Refugees and immigrants have become two separate categories, when throughout history this has never been the case. We never distinguished between refugees and economic migrants after WWII, for example, but those were different times. We needed the people. Borders are a very new phenomenon. In the past, people were subject to monarchs as opposed to states. Serfs were owned by their lords, slaves were owned by their masters, and all were subject to the crown or emperor. Citizenship in ancient Rome had distinct advantages, including free bread, but the borders were porous. Up until the 20th century, people could travel anywhere. Until only very recently, it was quite common for entire classes of people, such as merchants, to live and travel freely. The passport - and the border - is a very new phenomenon. Things changed with the Cold War and the introduction of the welfare state. I understand there are limits, and I believe these need to be spelt out. I also believe we need to distinguish between genuine refugees and economic migrants. Europe, it seems, is only starting to come to terms with this. With 50 million refugees in the world today, I don't think it's fair for them to suffer while ambitious people from poor countries join them in seeking asylum. But those refugees need to go somewhere. We do not close the borders to war zones and watch civilians being killed as a result. You might be in favour of this, but to my knowledge, no country in the world would accept this. As an example, there are about 6 million Syrians accommodated temporarily in Lebanon and Turkey. As another example, there are over a million Afghan and Central Asian refugees accommodated in Pakistan. Oh, and they're all Muslim countries. If poor countries can take in huge numbers of people, temporarily or permanently, then we definitely can. It seems to me that if the choice is between people being harassed at train stations or people being killed by bullets and mortars, I'd be going with option 1. Being European or white does not exclude us from protecting fellow humans. Having nice, rich countries does not mean we should exclude people who aren't nice and rich. I'd say the opposite is the case: we have an even greater responsibility to help. Having a different culture to those seeking refuge doesn't work either. Turkey is accommodating Arabs. Pakistan is accommodating a host of different tribes and ethnicities. All these people speak different languages and have different customs to their host countries. Security is important, but it just goes to show the importance of screening. We haven't had a Paris attack (or Lebanon or Turkey or even Jakarta attack) in Australia. This is to do with screening, but also good policing. Bomb plots can be prevented - bomb ingredients are carefully monitored. Semi automatic weapons are restricted. Sure, a 15 year old kid with a pistol can hurt or kill someone. A crazed guy with a rifle can kill three people and even get the Sydney CBD shut down for a day. Ultimately, of course, there is no way to prevent such crimes. People would still murder and hold people to ransom even if you did ban all refugees, immigrants or even tourists. Many of those who've left Australia to join ISIS were born here. Some were Muslim converts. Banning religion is impossible - banning extremism even more so. I can see no sensible or humane reason to prevent civilians fleeing war zones, and I can see no reason to prevent them coming to the West. If you can provide one, I'm all ears, but the "we don't want them here" argument is pointless. That's not a reason at all.

being nice most certainly does mean we should exclude those who arent nice.

All the good that you create , will be attacked,
Unless
You
Defend it.

To not know this, is just naive.

How far will the weeds grow if we dont defend agianst them.....they'll grow right up between our toes.
How far can we push them back if want to......past the horizon.

The weeds are no match for correct attitude , discipline and activity.
The darkness is no match for the light.
Evil is no match for good.

As Long As Good Is Active  ;) ;)

The reason that we must have refugees is because our society has entered into a stage of pathological altruism.






Pathological altruism
by Judith Curry

Pathological altruism can be conceived as behavior in which attempts to promote the welfare of another, or others, results instead in harm that an external observer would conclude was reasonably foreseeable.


http://judithcurry.com/2013/12/09/pathological-altruism/

innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

The reason that we must have refugees is because our society has entered into a stage of pathological altruism. Pathological altruism by Judith Curry Pathological altruism can be conceived as behavior in which attempts to promote the welfare of another, or others, results instead in harm that an external observer would conclude was reasonably foreseeable. http://judithcurry.com/2013/12/09/pathological-altruism/

Thanks for explaining innocentbystander's existence. Pathetic pathological altruism.

Karnal: "Bogie, my only question is where refugees should go when they can't live in their country of origin."

If that's your only question, here's my answer.

If they have the potential to be a source of trouble, and overseas experience clearly shows that they will, I don't give a f*ck where they go as long as it's not here.
Sure, they won't all be trouble, but as far as I know there is no electronic device that you can scan them with that will go *beep* if they or their present or future progeny have terrorist plans or sympathies, culturally-divisive tendencies or a possibility of being welfare dependent or of seeking to impose non-Western cultural values.

There, now I think that's excluded them all. Answer ends.

ps Greg, I'm sure you can find a part of this - or the whole if you wish - to display in banner headlines or turn into a movie. Be my guest and I wish you every success in this business venture.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:43pm:

being nice most certainly does mean we should exclude those who arent nice.

But of course. That's why we do things like police checks - for people even applying for a tourist visa. Immigration is a much harder process. Skilled migration visas, spousal visas, it takes years. Applying for asylum?

Speak to someone who's done it.

The government doesn't just ban or admit entire ethnic or religious groups for this very reason. It assesses individuals.

Imagine if the government banned tourists from Malaysia, for example, because it has a majority of Muslims. What would be the point of that, other than p!ssing off the entire global community and becoming the new South Africa? 

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 2:22pm:

Karnal: "Bogie, my only question is where refugees should go when they can't live in their country of origin." If that's your only question, here's my answer. If they have the potential to be a source of trouble, and overseas experience clearly shows that they will, I don't give a f*ck where they go as long as it's not here. Sure, they won't all be trouble, but as far as I know there is no electronic device that you can scan them with that will go *beep* if they or their present or future progeny have terrorist plans or sympathies, culturally-divisive tendencies or a possibility of being welfare dependent or of seeking to impose non-Western cultural values. There, now I think that's excluded them all. Answer ends. ps Greg, I'm sure you can find a part of this - or the whole if you wish - to display in banner headlines or turn into a movie. Be my guest and I wish you every success in this business venture.

You're describing a quarter of the world's population as "welfare dependent", having "terrorist progeny" and "seeking to impose non-Western cultural values" here, Bogey. You're suggesting they should be electronically tagged, only this wouldn't be good enough.

Sorry to pester you with questions, but who's being "culturally divisive"?

Japan's refugee program has  worked out fantastic for them. They have had no problems with the cost and they haven't had single terrorist incident refugee related :D

red baron wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Japan's refugee program has  worked out fantastic for them. They have had no problems with the cost and they haven't had single terrorist incident refugee related :D

Well, if you don't include North Korean kidnappings and killings, sure. Include them in your analysis, Red, and I think our refugee related terrorist death toll - 3? - would pale in comparison.

But Japan is in the economic position it's in now because of its ageing population - the very reason we have an immigration program. Japan is in a long-term structural recession, and showing no signs of improving.

Japan is a great country without immigration - thanks for providing an example. But it's declining fast for that very reason.

Karnal, you said that was your only question and I gave you a comprehensive answer.

red baron wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Japan's refugee program has  worked out fantastic for them. They have had no problems with the cost and they haven't had single terrorist incident refugee related :D

Why aren't you living in Japan, Red?

Serious question.

See if you can give a serious answer (without hyperbole, cliches, or metaphors).

bogarde73 wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 4:08pm:

Karnal, you said that was your only question and I gave you a comprehensive answer.

No worries, Bogey. You've probably got better things to do.

innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

The reason that we must have refugees is because our society has entered into a stage of pathological altruism. Pathological altruism by Judith Curry Pathological altruism can be conceived as behavior in which attempts to promote the welfare of another, or others, results instead in harm that an external observer would conclude was reasonably foreseeable. http://judithcurry.com/2013/12/09/pathological-altruism/

This sums up research in the Social Sciences and Humanities:


Quote:

To object to a scientific theory is one thing, but to object to a scientific theory that connects however tenuously to feelings of morality is quite another. Once morality plays a role, even at the most subliminal level, the formidable cognitive biases of altruism and its pathologies can swing into play. Perhaps for that reason different academic disciplines and specific topics within those disciplines show differing requirements for rigor. In disciplines related to helping people (which can encompass a surprisingly broad swathe of even hard-science topics), scientists’ differing treatment of research findings that elicit altruism bias can skew the findings of seemingly objective science. As Robert Trivers has noted: “It seems manifest that the greater the social content of a discipline, especially human, the greater will be the biases due to self-deception and the greater the retardation of the field compared with less social disciplines”.

Being pathologically altruist is in some ways like taking a drug, it gives the person engaged in the activity a high and makes them feel morally superior, in the same way that screaming racist does.

Its not about helping others as much as it is about getting that high.

aquascoot wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 1:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 11:08am: Bogie, my only question is where refugees should go when they can't live in their country of origin. To be honest, I'm not that interested in Austrian gun ownership or people being harassed at train stations. The question for me is what we do with people who've had their homes and their livelihoods taken away. I think the best thing for Syrians is to return to Syria, but that's impossible while there's a massive civil war going on. I'm not in favour of non-refugees heading off to Europe to move in and call Europeans racists. This isn't fair. As far as I can tell, Europe has done everything in its power to accommodate those escaping war. It has definitely been nicer to refugees than Australia. My other argument here has been about the historical importance of immigration. Refugees and immigrants have become two separate categories, when throughout history this has never been the case. We never distinguished between refugees and economic migrants after WWII, for example, but those were different times. We needed the people. Borders are a very new phenomenon. In the past, people were subject to monarchs as opposed to states. Serfs were owned by their lords, slaves were owned by their masters, and all were subject to the crown or emperor. Citizenship in ancient Rome had distinct advantages, including free bread, but the borders were porous. Up until the 20th century, people could travel anywhere. Until only very recently, it was quite common for entire classes of people, such as merchants, to live and travel freely. The passport - and the border - is a very new phenomenon. Things changed with the Cold War and the introduction of the welfare state. I understand there are limits, and I believe these need to be spelt out. I also believe we need to distinguish between genuine refugees and economic migrants. Europe, it seems, is only starting to come to terms with this. With 50 million refugees in the world today, I don't think it's fair for them to suffer while ambitious people from poor countries join them in seeking asylum. But those refugees need to go somewhere. We do not close the borders to war zones and watch civilians being killed as a result. You might be in favour of this, but to my knowledge, no country in the world would accept this. As an example, there are about 6 million Syrians accommodated temporarily in Lebanon and Turkey. As another example, there are over a million Afghan and Central Asian refugees accommodated in Pakistan. Oh, and they're all Muslim countries. If poor countries can take in huge numbers of people, temporarily or permanently, then we definitely can. It seems to me that if the choice is between people being harassed at train stations or people being killed by bullets and mortars, I'd be going with option 1. Being European or white does not exclude us from protecting fellow humans. Having nice, rich countries does not mean we should exclude people who aren't nice and rich. I'd say the opposite is the case: we have an even greater responsibility to help. Having a different culture to those seeking refuge doesn't work either. Turkey is accommodating Arabs. Pakistan is accommodating a host of different tribes and ethnicities. All these people speak different languages and have different customs to their host countries. Security is important, but it just goes to show the importance of screening. We haven't had a Paris attack (or Lebanon or Turkey or even Jakarta attack) in Australia. This is to do with screening, but also good policing. Bomb plots can be prevented - bomb ingredients are carefully monitored. Semi automatic weapons are restricted. Sure, a 15 year old kid with a pistol can hurt or kill someone. A crazed guy with a rifle can kill three people and even get the Sydney CBD shut down for a day. Ultimately, of course, there is no way to prevent such crimes. People would still murder and hold people to ransom even if you did ban all refugees, immigrants or even tourists. Many of those who've left Australia to join ISIS were born here. Some were Muslim converts. Banning religion is impossible - banning extremism even more so. I can see no sensible or humane reason to prevent civilians fleeing war zones, and I can see no reason to prevent them coming to the West. If you can provide one, I'm all ears, but the "we don't want them here" argument is pointless. That's not a reason at all. being nice most certainly does mean we should exclude those who arent nice. All the good that you create , will be attacked, Unless You Defend it. To not know this, is just naive. How far will the weeds grow if we dont defend agianst them.....they'll grow right up between our toes. How far can we push them back if want to......past the horizon. The weeds are no match for correct attitude , discipline and activity. The darkness is no match for the light. Evil is no match for good. As Long As Good Is Active  ;) ;)

What a wonderful, concise juxtaposition of waffling, verbose, unmoored, theory-locked and delirious bollocks (PB) and lived common sense (aquascoot)


The likes of the Paki Bugger have no greater contempt for anyone but the people who think for themselves and see the world through their own experience like aquascoot. 

Karnal wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

Bogie, my only question is where refugees should go when they can't live in their country of origin. To be honest, I'm not that interested in Austrian gun ownership or people being harassed at train stations. The question for me is what we do with people who've had their homes and their livelihoods taken away. I think the best thing for Syrians is to return to Syria, but that's impossible while there's a massive civil war going on. I'm not in favour of non-refugees heading off to Europe to move in and call Europeans racists. This isn't fair. As far as I can tell, Europe has done everything in its power to accommodate those escaping war. It has definitely been nicer to refugees than Australia. My other argument here has been about the historical importance of immigration. Refugees and immigrants have become two separate categories, when throughout history this has never been the case. We never distinguished between refugees and economic migrants after WWII, for example, but those were different times. We needed the people. Borders are a very new phenomenon. In the past, people were subject to monarchs as opposed to states. Serfs were owned by their lords, slaves were owned by their masters, and all were subject to the crown or emperor. Citizenship in ancient Rome had distinct advantages, including free bread, but the borders were porous. Up until the 20th century, people could travel anywhere. Until only very recently, it was quite common for entire classes of people, such as merchants, to live and travel freely. The passport - and the border - is a very new phenomenon. Things changed with the Cold War and the introduction of the welfare state. I understand there are limits, and I believe these need to be spelt out. I also believe we need to distinguish between genuine refugees and economic migrants. Europe, it seems, is only starting to come to terms with this. With 50 million refugees in the world today, I don't think it's fair for them to suffer while ambitious people from poor countries join them in seeking asylum. But those refugees need to go somewhere. We do not close the borders to war zones and watch civilians being killed as a result. You might be in favour of this, but to my knowledge, no country in the world would accept this. As an example, there are about 6 million Syrians accommodated temporarily in Lebanon and Turkey. As another example, there are over a million Afghan and Central Asian refugees accommodated in Pakistan. Oh, and they're all Muslim countries. If poor countries can take in huge numbers of people, temporarily or permanently, then we definitely can. It seems to me that if the choice is between people being harassed at train stations or people being killed by bullets and mortars, I'd be going with option 1. Being European or white does not exclude us from protecting fellow humans. Having nice, rich countries does not mean we should exclude people who aren't nice and rich. I'd say the opposite is the case: we have an even greater responsibility to help. Having a different culture to those seeking refuge doesn't work either. Turkey is accommodating Arabs. Pakistan is accommodating a host of different tribes and ethnicities. All these people speak different languages and have different customs to their host countries. Security is important, but it just goes to show the importance of screening. We haven't had a Paris attack (or Lebanon or Turkey or even Jakarta attack) in Australia. This is to do with screening, but also good policing. Bomb plots can be prevented - bomb ingredients are carefully monitored. Semi automatic weapons are restricted. Sure, a 15 year old kid with a pistol can hurt or kill someone. A crazed guy with a rifle can kill three people and even get the Sydney CBD shut down for a day. Ultimately, of course, there is no way to prevent such crimes. People would still murder and hold people to ransom even if you did ban all refugees, immigrants or even tourists. Many of those who've left Australia to join ISIS were born here. Some were Muslim converts. Banning religion is impossible - banning extremism even more so. I can see no sensible or humane reason to prevent civilians fleeing war zones, and I can see no reason to prevent them coming to the West. If you can provide one, I'm all ears, but the "we don't want them here" argument is pointless. That's not a reason at all.

Every paragraph is a new, fascinating and horible idiocy.

To have the temerity to utter such undisguised and blatant crap deserves a reward of sorts. 

You can have a banana, PB.

Have two.