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Message started by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:01am

Title: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:01am
ROGUE union bosses who deliberately flout the law will be targeted in beefed-up laws to regulate trade unions.

The Turnbull Government is considering 79 recommendations made by the royal commission in its final report to improve union transparency and accountability.

But two recommendations that would impose penalties on dodgy individuals and ban them from holding office are expected to be key features of the Government’s revised Registered Organisations Bill, which has been rejected by the Senate twice.

The proposals — aimed at militant construction union the CFMEU — will also prevent unions using membership fees to pay the fines for rogue officers who break the law.

Victoria Police claims union officials are wearing fines as “badges of honour” as there are no laws which stops unions paying the fines imposed on their officers.

The new legislation will come before the Senate when Parliament resumes in February. The Government will also reintroduce a Bill to re-establish a construction watchdog.

If that Bill is rejected again it would hand the Government a possible double dissolution trigger, which it will need to go to an election before mid-July.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has vowed fight an election on the reforms, sparking renewed speculation about an early election.

“If we cannot get the passage of this legislation through the Senate, then in one form or another it will be a major issue at the next election and we will be going to the members of the unions and we will be saying to them we want you to get a fair deal,” Mr Turnbull said.

Victorian Liberal MP Dan Tehan said it was time union officials who break the law were held to account, calling on both sides of Parliament to back the two “critical” reforms.

“If not, the clear message our Parliament would be sending to officials in organisations like the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union and the Maritime Union of Australia is we are happy for you to break the law with impunity,” Mr Tehan writes in Monday’s Herald Sun.

The Government’s focus on rogue individuals is in line with royal commissioner Dyson Heydon’s recommendation not to deregister the CFMEU, arguing it wouldn’t address the problems within the industry and would impact members.

Employment Minister Michaelia Cash said the Government was “not ruling anything out”, but one MP said deregistering the union would be “difficult”.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/rogue-union-bosses-targeted-in-turnbull-government-push-for-reform/news-story/3ed270f791fb226b5df7cda0dc6e2700

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:02am
Lets hope, for the sake of long-suffering members, that these reforms are passed this time.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Swagman on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:34am
....apparently Unions pay the fines of its officials that break the law?

Therefore there is no deterrent in imposing fines.

More corruption.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Bam on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Bam on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:38am

Swagman wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:34am:
....apparently Unions pay the fines of its officials that break the law?

Therefore there is no deterrent in imposing fines.

More corruption.

Not corruption, just a case where unions are not equal before the law.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by aussie100percent on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Kat on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:43am

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Why not?

They run businesses, corporations, and conservative governments.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by aussie100percent on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:46am

Kat wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:43am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Why not?

They run businesses, corporations, and conservative governments.


You forgot the Labor party maxi!  Just look at NSW LABOR     ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D D/H

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by John Smith on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:04am

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:46am:
You forgot the Labor party maxi!  Just look at NSW LABOR     Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin D/H



did you close your eyes once you moved onto looking at the NSW libs?  ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by aussie100percent on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:10am

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:04am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:46am:
You forgot the Labor party maxi!  Just look at NSW LABOR     Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin D/H



did you close your eyes once you moved onto looking at the NSW libs?  ::) ::) ::)


NAH just keeping trike boy on the straight and narrow , if that's possible  ;)

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by John Smith on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:12am

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:10am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:04am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:46am:
You forgot the Labor party maxi!  Just look at NSW LABOR     Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin D/H



did you close your eyes once you moved onto looking at the NSW libs?  ::) ::) ::)


NAH just keeping trike boy on the straight and narrow , if that's possible  ;)


you're so worried about the forest that you can't see the trees ..... do I need to remind you of the count so far?

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by aussie100percent on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:16am

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:12am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:10am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:04am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:46am:
You forgot the Labor party maxi!  Just look at NSW LABOR     Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin D/H



did you close your eyes once you moved onto looking at the NSW libs?  ::) ::) ::)


NAH just keeping trike boy on the straight and narrow , if that's possible  ;)


you're so worried about the forest that you can't see the trees ..... do I need to remind you of the count so far?


You go for your life I'm going fishing,,bye  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by John Smith on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:17am
half your luck ... I have to go fix a broken toilet  :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:23am

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:17am:
half your luck ... I have to go fix a broken toilet  :D :D :D :D


I guess this forum isn't the only thing that can't handle your crap, eh?  ;)

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Bam on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by sir prince duke alevine on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:30am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:23am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:17am:
half your luck ... I have to go fix a broken toilet  :D :D :D :D


I guess this forum isn't the only thing that can't handle your crap, eh?  ;)

I'll give Armpit one, that was funny.  For once, armpit made a funny. Wow. I never thought I'd see the day...

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by longweekend58 on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:37am

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


the problem is that unions do not behave like corporations and politicians. they are particulary rogue. stronger regulations and laws are always imposed on groups that will not otherwise do the right thing.

unions and their actions are to blame for being 'singled out'

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by longweekend58 on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


thats not true.  BEHAVIOUR must be equal for everyone, but if a particular group is not going to comply without stringent regulation then such things are more than fine.

all unions have to do is to obey the law and not bully or be corrupt.  But they wont do that ergo, special laws to control them,

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by sir prince duke alevine on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:44am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


thats not true.  BEHAVIOUR must be equal for everyone, but if a particular group is not going to comply without stringent regulation then such things are more than fine.

all unions have to do is to obey the law and not bully or be corrupt.  But they wont do that ergo, special laws to control them,


How is any of what you said different for industry groups, lobby groups, think tanks, corporations, etc?

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:46am

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


Actually, you can't be in parliament if you're a convicted criminal.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:48am

Swagman wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:34am:
....apparently Unions pay the fines of its officials that break the law?

Therefore there is no deterrent in imposing fines.

More corruption.


You think it isn't the same with businesses except that nobody bothers to catch them for the same type of behaviour.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:52am
Rogue union bosses targeted

Instead of trying to fix the problem looks like Turdbull is determined to play politics with it.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:57am
Rogue union bosses targeted

The regulation looks like it would mostly apply to union people who are not rogue at all.

There is nothing in the suggested legislation that would go anywhere near limiting it to either rogues or bosses.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:18am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:46am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


Actually, you can't be in parliament if you're a convicted criminal.


Incorrect (once again).




Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by SupositoryofWisdom on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:22am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:23am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:17am:
half your luck ... I have to go fix a broken toilet  :D :D :D :D


I guess this forum isn't the only thing that can't handle your crap, eh?  ;)


Wholly chit armpit did funny  ;D

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by John Smith on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:56am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:23am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:17am:
half your luck ... I have to go fix a broken toilet  :D :D :D :D


I guess this forum isn't the only thing that can't handle your crap, eh?  ;)


keep guessing ... the problem is with where the water goes in, not where the sh1t goes out.

You can add that to the billion other things you consistently get wrong on this forum

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Bam on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:59am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


thats not true.  BEHAVIOUR must be equal for everyone, but if a particular group is not going to comply without stringent regulation then such things are more than fine.

Now you know why corporations are tightly regulated.  ;D


longweekend58 wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:
all unions have to do is to obey the law and not bully or be corrupt.  But they wont do that ergo, special laws to control them,

Incorrect. The main problem is an inconsistency of law. Simply making the laws consistent for all organisations will do a lot to fix these problems.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Bam on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:01am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:46am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


Actually, you can't be in parliament if you're a convicted criminal.

That's going to be a big surprise to Wilson Tuckey.  8-)

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by John Smith on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:01am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:
BEHAVIOUR must be equal for everyone, but if a particular group is not going to comply without stringent regulation then such things are more than fine.


really? so what stringent regulations did they bring in for the AWB? Or for the brown paper bag brigade in NSW? what about Getax?

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:10am
.. to every thing.. spin, spin, spin.....

"Victorian Liberal MP Dan Tehan said it was time union officials who break the law were held to account"

You mean Thomo got a walk?  Wow... never knew that.,

WTS is it with these people posting this utter garbage that they think somehow people who break laws are not held to account?  Countless innocent people have been held to account for allegations of 'breaking the law' on the word and whim of countless people entrusted with upholding the law.... (a gross miscarriage of justice and breach of Rule of Law BTW)....

When people break the law - they can always be held accountable.... so we need to look further here for the true reasons for this jihad against Unions.

On the politics side - I see that Turnbull has no intention of backing away from Abbott's attack on Unionism, and thus shows that there has been no substantial change in the 'industrial relations' approach of this government.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:13am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:

aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:

Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


thats not true.  BEHAVIOUR must be equal for everyone, but if a particular group is not going to comply without stringent regulation then such things are more than fine.

all unions have to do is to obey the law and not bully or be corrupt.  But they wont do that ergo, special laws to control them,


You mean the Law shouldn't treat all equally?

Tell that to Magna Carta...... the biggest trouble with this country is that Law itself has been perverted to the use of political parties.... yours Libs being the absolute worst.  Perversion of the Law is a crime itself and should be punished as such.

As usual - you are good for a laugh...... ;D  ;D

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.


When you don't expect the leftards to sinker lower - they under achieve all expectations and set even lower standards

To make a statement like this shows you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up

It is the mass stupidity of the left that allows the right to be wealthy

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.


Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.



Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employer-associations

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:42am

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.


When you don't expect the leftards to sinker lower - they under achieve all expectations and set even lower standards

To make a statement like this shows you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up

It is the mass stupidity of the left that allows the right to be wealthy


I rather thought it was the minority greed of the few on the 'right' who take all, while the rest, mere adherents with the fervent and undying hope that they will one day ride at the same level as the master rip-off merchants, are just as poor as the majority of the 'left'.

Adherents of the 'right' are often just peasants hoping to wear Armani one day and imagine themselves coffee shop billionaires.....

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.



Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employer-associations


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....

Without going too far, I would venture to suggest that there are very few occasions on which the regulations of companies are actually enforced... many such are done by 'peer' group stricture...... the banks being a prime example.

http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/find-a-document/regulatory-guides/

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.



Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employer-associations


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:56am
So this is all about attacking the building unions, who are alleged to be thugs and criminals?

I'd have to say - in that case - that there is a need to await the outcomes of court proceedings first, and to actually prove that any criminality (including corruption) is systematic and accepted as part and parcel of the job.

Tough negotiation is not criminality.... unless there is a corollary charge of 'weak-kneed boss who gives in easily' ......

All this is about the Flying Grollo Petty Fascist Empire in Malbun and their inability to refrain from trying to browbeat and intimidate their workforce and cut corners in the name of profit ..... as some 'right' inherent to being The Capo... certain ethnic groups imported into this country have this problem to the max - every petty little boss thinks he has dictatorial entitlements...

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:59am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.



Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employer-associations


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.


Or maybe because it is an unfair unreasonable disaster that lead to increased industry injuries and deaths while putting one area of employees under laws and regulations that should never be acceptable in democratic western society.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:05am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.



Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employer-associations


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.


Or maybe because it is an unfair unreasonable disaster that lead to increased industry injuries and deaths while putting one area of employees under laws and regulations that should never be acceptable in democratic western society.


If only you had some actual figures to back-up that ludicrous and false claim. Such a pity that you do not.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:18am
Let me abolish this argument here and now.

Unions are REGULATED by FWA - regulations are not Law - -  so this entire discussion is moot, and Turnbull is bullshotting in the wind about 'laws' to control 'rogue unions'.

Now - this is one clear reason why I have perpetually advocated that regulation should be compelled to abide by Law, and be open to challenge for a nominal fee instead of the massive cost of placing an objection before massively expensive courts as the only way of challenging wrongful regulation.

... to every thing.. spin, spin, spin....

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:32am
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/building-watchdog-undermines-liberty-20100705-zxir.html

"In the heated, protracted battle over the Australian Building and Construction Commission, it can be hard to separate fact from fiction. When I first looked at the law that underpins the commission, I expected many of the strongest attacks to be wildly overstated. I was wrong.

By any standard, the ABCC is a remarkable body. Described as a ''tough cop on the beat'', it has powers that greatly exceed those given to any police officer in the nation.

The ABCC can force people to answer questions in secret and to reveal documents that relate to any of its investigations. This negates a person's right to silence. It also removes their privilege against self-incrimination, a protection that has been described by the High Court as a ''cardinal principle of our system of justice'' and a ''bulwark of liberty''.

Disobeying the ABCC is punishable by six months in jail. This is the penalty facing a South Australian rigger, Ark Tribe, whose trial for failing to attend the commission for questioning continues later this month.

There are no limits on the type of information that can be sought by the ABCC. A person can be compelled to hand over personal phone and email records, reveal memberships of a union or political party, and report on private meetings.

This can be applied to anyone. Workers can be brought in, not because they are suspected of wrongdoing, but to report on the activities of their co-workers. Family members, including young children, can be told to reveal information about a parent in the building industry.

The possibilities are far reaching. The law even means that a priest can be forced to reveal the secrets of the confessional. Such examples are not entirely fanciful. One person who just happened to be passing a building site was reported in this paper to have been ''hauled in for several hours of secret questioning'' after seeing a confrontation between a union official and a building manager.

In case there was any doubt about the scope of these powers, the law says that the ABCC can override the protections that innocent people have under privacy law. The law may well be unique in also allowing the commission to ignore the confidentiality of cabinet documents and to demand secret national security information held by agencies such as ASIO.

The problem is not just one of extraordinary power, but also that the expected safeguards have been stripped away. Unlike other bodies that question people, the ABCC does not need a warrant from a judicial officer or other independent person. The normal grounds of reviewing its decisions have also been excluded, meaning federal law cannot be used to argue that the ABCC has breached the rules of natural justice or made a decision in bad faith.

What is most surprising is this unchecked authority is not directed at serious crime. The ABCC's mandate is instead to investigate industrial matters in the construction industry. This means it can use its coercive powers to inquire into minor breaches of industrial awards, including the proper taking of sick leave and rest breaks.

Despite its limited role, the ABCC has been given powers that would not be contemplated for the police by a state government bent on winning a law and order auction. This should be a concern to everyone, not just people working in the building industry. A dangerous precedent has been set that could well be applied elsewhere.

The ABCC was created by the Howard government after the Cole Royal Commission into the Building and Construction Industry reported in 2003 that it had found examples of ''lawlessness''. This finding is disputed by the union movement. However, even if it is correct, the powers given to the ABCC represent an overkill.

Labor vehemently opposed the creation of the commission. It has since changed its approach. In government, Labor has sought to put new restraints on the body, but has made no move to abolish the powers of the ABCC or to ensure that all workers are subject to the same laws.

Kevin Rudd was steadfast in holding to this position. He did so despite calls from across his own party and the union movement that the ABCC be dismantled. Julia Gillard is now facing renewed pressure, including from her backbench and some of her most prominent union supporters. They are asking her to go to the next federal election seeking a mandate to abolish the ABCC and its powers.

The Prime Minister should do so. The ABCC has no place in a modern, fair system of industrial relations, let alone in a nation that prides itself on political and individual freedoms.

George Williams is the Anthony Mason Professor of Law at the University of NSW"

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:33am
I doubt we need the return of such a blatantly Fascist organisation that is part and parcel of the ongoing jihad against Rights here in Australia...

Those who persist on this path will one day rue the day they began it... history says so.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:09pm
Damn - that settled the battle...... or is it lunch time?

I'm sure LongMania could argue here... anyone can argue anything... thing is............... can they argue reality?

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:46pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.



Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employer-associations


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.


Or maybe because it is an unfair unreasonable disaster that lead to increased industry injuries and deaths while putting one area of employees under laws and regulations that should never be acceptable in democratic western society.


If only you had some actual figures to back-up that ludicrous and false claim. Such a pity that you do not.


Last time I was questioned on this I produced the numbers, do you guys take turns pretending you don't know anything ?

If you want to find out look it up.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Kat on Jan 11th, 2016 at 2:10pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.



It is.

And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by mariacostel on Jan 11th, 2016 at 6:14pm

Kat wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.



It is.

And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.


Do you treat everything in your life like a war?  Perhaps if you stopped doing that your life would look less like a carpet-bombed disaster.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:15pm
When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties


Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act


Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:19pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.



It is.

And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.


Do you treat everything in your life like a war?  Perhaps if you stopped doing that your life would look less like a carpet-bombed disaster.


The real war has yet to come... choose your side carefully... and you are already lagging behind...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sho8GETs80

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:24pm
So the Fair Work Act and the Fair Work Commission are one and the same? Really?

I thought such a commission was a fair place to drop a few of your mates in need of a few bucks..... as long as they followed the Party line....

Again - how does regulation equate to Law?  I know - but let me hear you explain it so I know you understand.

Around 70% of government is done by regulation and departmental policy - be very wary of such things.... this is precisely why I advocate that any regulation or departmental policy must abide fully by the Rule of Law, and must be challengable by a simple and cheap process.... rather than a convoluted and massively costly law suit in some court (such a process is itself policy!!)...

Pull, Lemuel..... PULL!

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:29pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation


What 'misinformation' are you referring to?


Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties


Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act


Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs


it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.


Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:45pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties


Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act


Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs


Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights



Wrong.

The role of unions

Unions play an important role in the workplace.

Some of the key roles include being able to resolve workplace issues by being a voice for employees and acting as a bargaining representative during bargaining negotiations.

Other key features of unions include:
•working with management to help resolve workplace issues
•being an advocate for employees
•ensuring employers are meeting their minimum obligations
•looking into suspected breaches of:
•workplace laws
•discrimination laws
•workplace safety laws.


Bargaining with unions

Bargaining is a process where employers and employees negotiate the terms and conditions of an enterprise agreement.

Employers and employees can be represented by a bargaining representative during this process. Normally the bargaining representative for employees will be a union official.

All bargaining representatives and other parties involved in the process have to bargain in good faith.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/industrial-action-and-union-membership/the-role-of-unions

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:02pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties


Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act


Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs


it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.


So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?

If - as this hype says - Union officers were getting away with things that are genuine crimes - and this does not include placing a black ban according to a vote of members on a business that is engaged in shoddy industrial relations (that's only a 'crime' when you are a business or a support of business even when it does wrong) - how then was Thomo and the like called to task by the Union FIRST and foremost - and long  before any 'royal commission'... and then charged according to LAW?

What dream land do you reside in?  Any dream land that attacks unions but not bosses who do the wrong thing?

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:03pm

The only person spreading misinformation here, is Maqqa.

Funny, that.


Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:10pm
LongMania - an established negotiator - prefers to negotiate at the point of the unemployment gun..... not a good indicator of longevity in this day and age with an increasingly alienated workforce and society.....

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:38pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40pm:
it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.


Please enlighten us with a reference to the Fair Work Act

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:39pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:02pm:
So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?


Incorrect

The Union Officers are unrestraint compared to the Company Officers

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:40pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:03pm:
The only person spreading misinformation here, is Maqqa.

Funny, that.


Then reference the Fair Work Act and prove me wrong

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 12th, 2016 at 1:52am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:03pm:
The only person spreading misinformation here, is Maqqa.

Funny, that.


Please explain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUoiy22Q_lw

She actually got that right at the time in that interview...requiring of an interviewer that they make their issue clear..... amazing what a propaganda clip can do to a person's credibility....

Now - I don't follow PH's views in all things.... but she had some things right..... until the media got hold of her....



Amazing what a picture can tell.......



Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 12th, 2016 at 1:58am

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:02pm:
So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?


Incorrect

The Union Officers are unrestraint compared to the Company Officers


How so?  I don't see many Union people overseeing the demise of their Union and then reaping million in 'unforeseen' and 'overlooked' funds, or funds channeled into 'private companies' for 'finder's fees' and 'management fees'....  borrowed from the banks who will levy further 'fees' on the general populace under the ultra-socialist principle that it is better for the majority to pay a little that they can't afford rather than recoup the millions taken by those who can afford to repay it, out of a failed business in return for loans etc ......

Come back, spinner....

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Dnarever on Jan 12th, 2016 at 6:30am

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:38pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40pm:
it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.


Please enlighten us with a reference to the Fair Work Act


Why your the one making unsupportable statements.

This is what it is called

FAIR WORK (REGISTERED ORGANISATIONS) ACT 2009

There is a copy here.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fwoa2009362/


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fwoa2009362/s16.html

FAIR WORK (REGISTERED ORGANISATIONS) ACT 2009 - SECT 16
Operation of offence provisions
                   If a maximum penalty is specified:

                     (a)  at the foot of a section of this Act (other than a section that is divided into subsections); or

                     (b)  at the foot of a subsection of this Act;

then:

                     (c)  a person who contravenes the section or subsection is guilty of an offence punishable, on conviction, by a penalty not exceeding the specified penalty; or

                     (d)  the offence referred to in the section or subsection is punishable, on conviction, by a penalty not exceeding the specified penalty.



Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by cods on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:03am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:03pm:
The only person spreading misinformation here, is Maqqa.

Funny, that.



he doesnt use FACEBOOK like you gweggy... you can tell. ;D ;D

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by cods on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 1:58am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:02pm:
So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?


Incorrect

The Union Officers are unrestraint compared to the Company Officers


How so?  I don't see many Union people overseeing the demise of their Union and then reaping million in 'unforeseen' and 'overlooked' funds, or funds channeled into 'private companies' for 'finder's fees' and 'management fees'....  borrowed from the banks who will levy further 'fees' on the general populace under the ultra-socialist principle that it is better for the majority to pay a little that they can't afford rather than recoup the millions taken by those who can afford to repay it, out of a failed business in return for loans etc ......

Come back, spinner....


hilarious grappy.

because they take it whilst they are employed.. silly..

havent you kept up with the Royal perhaps if you hadnt been so busy waving your placard calling it a witch hunt...

you would have noticed how many have been reported for STEALING FROM THEIR MEMBERS...

and not forgetting the CHEATING THEIR MEMBERS...

you really must keep up to date....

you do realise dont you... that you can change banks....or you can take your business elswhere if you dont like their tactics..

however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too...... so any scullduggery only ever gets exposed in a ROYAL >:( >:( >:(



Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by SupositoryofWisdom on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:12am

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 1:58am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:02pm:
So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?


Incorrect

The Union Officers are unrestraint compared to the Company Officers


How so?  I don't see many Union people overseeing the demise of their Union and then reaping million in 'unforeseen' and 'overlooked' funds, or funds channeled into 'private companies' for 'finder's fees' and 'management fees'....  borrowed from the banks who will levy further 'fees' on the general populace under the ultra-socialist principle that it is better for the majority to pay a little that they can't afford rather than recoup the millions taken by those who can afford to repay it, out of a failed business in return for loans etc ......

Come back, spinner....


hilarious grappy.

because they take it whilst they are employed.. silly..

havent you kept up with the Royal perhaps if you hadnt been so busy waving your placard calling it a witch hunt...

you would have noticed how many have been reported for STEALING FROM THEIR MEMBERS...

and not forgetting the CHEATING THEIR MEMBERS...

you really must keep up to date....

you do realise dont you... that you can change banks....or you can take your business elswhere if you dont like their tactics..

however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too...... so any scullduggery only ever gets exposed in a ROYAL >:( >:( >:(


Jesus you really have no idea at all , i did credit you once with some intellect , i officially rescind that statement.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by cods on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:14am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 6:30am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 9:38pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40pm:
it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties


Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.


Please enlighten us with a reference to the Fair Work Act


Why your the one making unsupportable statements.

This is what it is called

FAIR WORK (REGISTERED ORGANISATIONS) ACT 2009

There is a copy here.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fwoa2009362/


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fwoa2009362/s16.html

FAIR WORK (REGISTERED ORGANISATIONS) ACT 2009 - SECT 16
Operation of offence provisions
                   If a maximum penalty is specified:

                     (a)  at the foot of a section of this Act (other than a section that is divided into subsections); or

                     (b)  at the foot of a subsection of this Act;

then:

                     (c)  a person who contravenes the section or subsection is guilty of an offence punishable, on conviction, by a penalty not exceeding the specified penalty; or

                     (d)  the offence referred to in the section or subsection is punishable, on conviction, by a penalty not exceeding the specified penalty.




quite a few of the 70 odd people of business that have been referred for investigation have been referred to Fair work.....so it will be interesting to see the results...

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Kat on Jan 12th, 2016 at 9:04am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.



It is.

And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.


Do you treat everything in your life like a war?  Perhaps if you stopped doing that your life would look less like a carpet-bombed disaster.



No. I don't.

But this IS, whether you think so or not.

Neo-cons have destroyed, in around 30 years, what took hundreds of years to gain, and they show no sign of stopping.

So yes, you're goddamed firkin right it's a war.

Choose your side VERY carefully.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by The Grappler on Jan 12th, 2016 at 10:45am
Union members vote on what their elected leaders will do... when it comes to political donations, they are part and parcel of supporting a party, and everyone has the right to do that......  I could donate personally to the Gelawhumpian Whale Defenestration Party if  I chose to do so - it's not theft.

Those guilty of misuse of Union funds were and are well in the sights without any royal commission - some have already been dealt with by the courts without any help from such a commission, which only refers to them to pad out its very thin portfolio of nasty people.  Most of those having the finger pointed at them are guilty of nothing but hard bargaining.... and all within the rules.

If a building union rep lays out a log of claims for a specific job - such as it's way away from home and out in the sticks and thus incurs extra cost to compensate for travel and accommodation (just an example) that is well within the rules and is nowhere near a massive pay demand or stand-over, and in no way reflects in a building worker being paid (example) $40 an hour JUST for working.... there are other factors involved.

Seems to me some of these wimpy Bosses need to swallow some cement and get with the program.

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 12th, 2016 at 10:48am

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:
they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too......



Unions publish their financial reports every year, and send copies to every member.


Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 12th, 2016 at 11:00am

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:
however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too......


Any idea what these are, cods?

http://www.cfmeu.net.au/your-union/financial-statements

http://www.nteu.org.au/myunion/about_us/finance

https://www.nuw.org.au/get-informed/public-notices/financial-summaries

http://www.unionsnsw.org.au/annual_reports

http://www.cfmeuffpd.org.au/ourunion/topics/2368.html

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 12th, 2016 at 11:55am

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:
however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too......


There's even an audit report here:

http://www.ieu.asn.au/union-financial-statements/

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by greggerypeccary on Jan 12th, 2016 at 12:01pm

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:
however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too......


"A copy of the Full Financial Report is available to members at any branch of the Maritime Union of Australia."

http://www.mua.org.au/tags/financial_report


Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 12th, 2016 at 12:57pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 11:00am:

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:
however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too......


Any idea what these are, cods?

http://www.cfmeu.net.au/your-union/financial-statements

http://www.nteu.org.au/myunion/about_us/finance

https://www.nuw.org.au/get-informed/public-notices/financial-summaries

http://www.unionsnsw.org.au/annual_reports

http://www.cfmeuffpd.org.au/ourunion/topics/2368.html


Not itemised are they?

This is why the Unions need to align with the Corporations Act

If I was auditing those documents the Unions would be done for misleading disclosure

Title: Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Post by Maqqa on Jan 12th, 2016 at 1:03pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 11:55am:

cods wrote on Jan 12th, 2016 at 8:10am:
however you have no choice when it comes to the unions....and dont dare ask them what are you doing with our money?????????...

they dont put their profit and loss in the papers like the banks have to....and even David Jones has too......


There's even an audit report here:

http://www.ieu.asn.au/union-financial-statements/


That says it's free of "material misstatement" i.e. there are misstatements

Look at Thommo and his vvenching days - what did they classify these expenses as? I guess it was classified as "free of material misstatement"

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