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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Third World Governments, First World Country http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1450405280 Message started by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:21pm

Title: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:21pm

Australian Governments have squandered an era of stunning prosperity.

In case we had any doubt, one thing we know for sure about 2015 is that the mining boom is over. Coal and iron ore prices have tanked, more than $100 billion has been wiped off the market capitalisation of our mining firms, and our trade deficits are worsening.

In further confirmation the budget deficit revealed on Tuesday was a shocker. The boom had given public revenue a windfall, allowing the Howard-Costello Government to finance tax cuts and to run a lazy fiscal policy, and allowing the Rudd-Swan Government to dodge the global financial crisis. But those days are gone.

Some may say that this is just business as usual – Australia’s economic history is one of commodity booms and busts. This boom is the fourth in the last fifty years. Although commodity prices may still fall further, in time excess stockpiles will be run down, easily-recovered ores will be depleted, and prices will start to recover. That’s been the nature of the commodity cycle.

“She’ll be right mate, if we can just hang on”.

But what we’re living through is not just another cyclical trough. Rather, it’s a fundamental change at the global level, and for Australia it’s almost certainly the end of a 200-year economic era.

To deal with each in turn.

The China boom – it won’t come again

The boom just past was exceptional because it coincided with China’s phase of extraordinary industrialisation and infrastructure investment.

The scale of China’s demand is hard to comprehend, but a couple of figures give us some idea of its magnitude and uniqueness. For example, in the three years from 2011 to 2013, China used more cement than the US had used over the entire twentieth century. And at its peak China was producing 800 million tonnes of steel a year, four times the amount any other country has ever produced.

It would be foolish to believe that China or any other country will ever see such a rapid expansion in resource-intensive growth – a growth driven in part, by its ideological legacy of central planning which puts so much emphasis on capital investment.

More basically, even as economies grow, new lighter and stronger materials are displacing older materials. For example, carbon fibre is displacing aluminium and steel in airplane and car manufacturing. Even where traditional metals are not completely displaced, new alloys and improved designs are making for lighter, and therefore less resource-intensive structures.

Then there’s coal. Most level-headed financiers and even economists in energy companies understand that thermal coal has no future, but the “coal is good for humanity” idea lives on in Australia. Coalition and Labor politicians are still gung-ho about the Galilee Basin project. They not only fail to understand that the world has changed; they also fail to understand how Australia must change, because 200 years of “she’ll be right” history is coming to an end.

The end of our “settler society”

Economic historian Ian McLean, in his 2013 book Why Australia Prospered, describes Australia as a “settler society”. Settler societies are mainly “New World” countries where colonists have displaced Indigenous populations – usually brutally – and have exploited easily-won natural resources. As a typical settler society Australia has enjoyed strong economic growth (some of which is a statistical artefact because depletion of natural resources is not taken into account), boosted by immigration, which in turn has kept the population young and healthy, thus keeping budgetary demands for health care and pensions in check.

Investors have done well, helped by a growing market and opportunities for unearned profits in areas such as land speculation in expanding cities. Like other settler societies we have been highly dependent on foreign capital, attracted by prospects of further growth. Those foreign capital inflows have kept our currency highly valued, allowing us to enjoy a high material standard of living.

Ever since 1807, when John Macarthur made the first shipment of Merino wool to England, the Australian economy has operated on the “settler society” model, providing raw or semi-processed commodities for others to add value.

That model has given us a bumpy ride, but time and again, just as it has looked like ending, there have been other strokes of luck – Lang Hancock discovers vast iron ore deposits in the Pilbara, the Japanese economy recovers from the devastation of war, the Chinese decide to ditch the austerity of communism. As Donald Horne wrote 50 years ago, “Australia is a lucky country, run mainly by second-rate people who share its luck.”

This time there isn’t much luck on the horizon, but we still have second-rate policymakers and managers, most of whom don’t realise that the “settler society” days are over.

The dominant thinking in Canberra, particularly as expressed by Treasurer Scott Morrison, is that “small government” and corporate and personal tax cuts might keep Australia “open for business” a little longer, staving off the necessary adjustments until after the next election (State premiers, who have the hard job of delivering services, are much more frank about the need for higher taxes).

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:21pm

We need to keep in mind that we already have the smallest public sectors of all prosperous “developed” countries, and that our deficiencies in transport and communication infrastructure and in education – results of inadequate past public investment – are holding us back.

When a Treasurer has to offer tax cuts to attract investment we should be truly worried, for tax cuts are the incentive of last resort used by countries that have little else to offer investors.

And our businesspeople, conditioned by 200 years of easy profits, are on a strike of capital. This year’s corporate returns have seen an unprecedented lack of new corporate investment: firms have been either reducing their debt or paying out high dividends.

It’s as if they cannot understand that in the future we may have to get used to the more modest real returns that satisfy investors in Japan and Europe.

And it’s as if we don’t realise we must pay our own way in the world – a world that is not going to continue providing the finance to compensate for our profligacy, and that is not going to let us go on degrading the planet’s atmosphere in order to subsidise the coal industry.

Malcolm Turnbull’s innovation statement is a step in the right direction. But it’s only one step on what may be a long and difficult journey in fixing our weak and outdated economic structure.

We must improve our public revenue. We must change our tax incentives to reward productive investment and discourage idle speculation.

We must break the old culture of entrenched labour-capital conflict (characterised by the commission into union corruption).

We must come to grips with climate change by putting a price on carbon and closing our coal-fired power stations.

We must end the corporate sense of entitlement and shut off opportunities for rent capture.

And we must address widening wealth and income inequality which are threatening the very legitimacy of our political and economic arrangements.

Hopefully in 2016, a decade after Donald Horne’s death, we will make progress to becoming a real “developed” country, and not just a third world country temporarily enjoying a first world living standard.

Ian McAuley
Ian McAuley is an adjunct lecturer in public sector finance at the University of Canberra and a fellow at the Centre for Policy Development.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by the good ole boys on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm

Blame Labor for that. They threw money around everywhere and far ked things up right left and centre . Billions and billions went on people smuggling alone when Labor tore down the borders. Howard had the economy going great and Labor stuffed it back up. The economy has never been the same.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kat on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:36pm

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

NOT ONE single word of truth in that little diatribe.

Not ONE.

ALL LNP propaganda - nothing more.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Sprintcyclist on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:40pm

Kat wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:36pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

NOT ONE single word of truth in that little diatribe.

Not ONE.

ALL LNP propaganda - nothing more.

how much has the alps failed invitation to illegals cost us ?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by malcolmISthetumbleweed on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:54pm

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

Howard did nothing ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by aussie100percent on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:58pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:40pm:

Kat wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:36pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

NOT ONE single word of truth in that little diatribe.

Not ONE.

ALL LNP propaganda - nothing more.

how much has the alps failed invitation to illegals cost us ?

maxi the kat's got it's nickers in a knot ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:16pm

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

Labor? The terrible state of Australia's economy lies in the hands of Do nothing Howard who squandered the vast majority of the mining boom capturing little revenue from it while selling off other profitable revenue streams for rock bottom prices to try claim "surplus" that was wasted on upper-middle class vote buying.

Then the Libs pounced on Rudd trying to in a last ditch effort seeing the Mining Boom end on the horizon raise revenue streams with the Mining Tax and then smashed Gillard for the Mining Tax.

Labor aren't blameless, tax cuts and loopholes were left wide open under Rudd and Gillard, but it has and always will be Liberal Governments that retard Australias development and economy for decades on end.

A child could have done a better job managing the economy than Howard, that is how easy governance was during those boom years.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:18pm

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

Howard & Costello were in power at a time of a boom. what did they do? They spent all the boom time revenue, $350Bn p1ssed up against the wall. Worse than that their profligacy, tax cuts, pork, middleclass welfare etc were built into the Budget.

Howard & Costello are the cause of many of our economic and Budgetary problems still now. Clowns!

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:23pm

What is this supposed to mean:

Quote:

how much has the alps failed invitation to illegals cost us ?

French Alps, Italian Alps? Lord alps them who alp themselves?

Then we have a “failed invitation”—so nobody came? I don’t understand.

Then it mentions “illegals” which I assume are the illegal overstayers who fly in here on tourist visas?

Strange sentence!

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by gizmo_2655 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:30pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:16pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

A child could have done a better job managing the economy than Howard, that is how easy governance was during those boom years.

Yeah, right.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm

Remember this?

That was before Labor got in and trashed the economy, fleeced the treasury, drove away justabout all business investment and maxed out the nations credit card..... :D

.....oh and increased unemployment by 50%

;D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by aquascoot on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:07pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:18pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

monk, you dill.

how can anyone with 1/2 a brain say that giving taxpayers tax cuts is government "p1ssing that money up against the wall"
it is the ONLY legitimate thing a government SHOULD do when they have extra money.
if there is any "p1ssing up against the wall being done" as a result, in what possible way is the government responsible for this.

then we have the SHEER LUNACY of rudd with a cash splash BORROWED at interest .

you must apologise immediately to John and Peter...our finest team ever.

gillard/rudd/swann...

a mining tax that earnt no money ;)
change border policy and cost 10 bill a year
NDIS started with no funding.
a "thought bubble" to take over public hospitals
NDIS wastage and blow outs.
cash splash to dead people
on again/off again carbon policy.

they are not fit to replace the batteries in Peter Costellos calculator ;)

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kat on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:09pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Actually, Labor did none of those things.

But the LNP have certainly made-up for it.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:21pm

Wee Johnny would have better served the country stashing that cash into an inviolable account as a prop against the blatantly obvious rising costs of healthcare and aged pensions and so forth..... instead they've stashed the futures fund away for their own benefits in the Caymans .......

Place looks and sounds more and more like some third world banana republic dictatorship, with the 'franchises' all going to family and friends of the ruling elite, who also use guns to ensure they remain in that position.

Just reading up on the Mafia in Sicily... a coven of rich landholders began some amazing stuff there.... set up even labour pools and loans for collectives under their own control......

How familiar it all sounds......

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:31pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:21pm:

You Truebelievers blissfully forget that nothing could be stashed away until Labor's accumulated debt was repaid.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Nice big structural Budget deficit tho. Didja forget about that?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:55pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:21pm:

You Truebelievers blissfully forget that nothing could be stashed away until Labor's accumulated debt was repaid.

In two years Libs added more debt 7 deficit than Labor did in 6 and Labor had a GFC to cope with. Just slipped your mind I expect. Libs are now spending like 26% of GDP! That is the highest for a long time!

Just the spending on super tax concessions will cost $170Bn over the forward estimated! Thank you Mr Howard, you profligate idiot!

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 3:24pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:21pm:

You Truebelievers blissfully forget that nothing could be stashed away until Labor's accumulated debt was repaid.

Unless it's the 'futures fund' - a nice little piece of work that earned the sheila who master-minded it a nice little sinecure here and there at mega-remuneration...... good service to the Capos brings its rewards......

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:10pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Nice big structural Budget deficit tho. Didja forget about that?

...BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :D ;D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:12pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:07pm:

how can anyone with 1/2 a brain say that giving taxpayers tax cuts is government "p1ssing that money up against the wall"

Because it was, there was nothing positive coming from that spending apart from vote buying. That money was earned by selling off revenue streams in a disgraceful fire sale (that has hamstrung the country too this very day and collapsed the global gold exchange) and then spent it on trying to solidify their own power though bribery.

Quote:

it is the ONLY legitimate thing a government SHOULD do when they have extra money.

No, they could have put the money into a sovereign wealth fund or used it on upgrading Australia's pisspoor infrastructure.

Quote:

if there is any "p1ssing up against the wall being done" as a result, in what possible way is the government responsible for this.

Because Howard was a terrible economic manager who simply wasted Government revenue on insane amounts of useless partisan vote buying.

Quote:

then we have the SHEER LUNACY of rudd with a cash splash BORROWED at interest .

Howard never fixed the structural deficit, so when Labor were given power, they were given a poison chalice of policies and a budget. Howard never fixed budget issues, his surplus was entirely from a ONE OFF firesale of revenue streams and assets.

Quote:

you must apologise immediately to John and Peter...our finest team ever.

Howard and Costello deserve to be buried under a rusty fence as two of the most incompetent, spiteful hacks this country has ever had the shame of leading Government.

Quote:

a mining tax that earnt no money ;)

Watered down mining tax thanks to the efforts of the Libs and Mining industry.

Quote:

change border policy and cost 10 bill a year

Labors refugee solution was terrible, but for the opposite reason, they had no courage or capital to work on a regional solution.

Quote:

NDIS started with no funding.
a "thought bubble" to take over public hospitals
NDIS wastage and blow outs.

The NDIS is one of the most important and needed health policies this country has seen.

Quote:

cash splash to dead people

GFC.

Quote:

on again/off again carbon policy.

The carbon policy that brought in revenue and saw huge improvements to Australia's carbon output

Quote:

they are not fit to replace the batteries in Peter Costellos calculator ;)

Again, a child could have done a better job than Cokehead Costello and Howard.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:14pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:10pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Nice big structural Budget deficit tho. Didja forget about that?

...BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :D ;D

You're an idiot. On your farm you sell say a piece of machinery that puts you back into "surplus" but then do nothing to the budget to actually cut wasteful spending so in a few years your back into the red. Do you call yourself a "great financial genius with a budget surplus?" No. Howard did nothing, absolutely nothing to actually fix budget issues.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by aquascoot on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm

why on earth would peter and john establish a treasure chest full of money when they knew labor would one day have access to it.

they made the entirely sensible choice to return the money to the people .

this is the basis of free enterprise ideology (the people know best where to spend their money) as opposed to leftard ideology (the government knows best where to spend their money).

i'll take the individual over the government every day of the week.

one look around the globe would convince you that "people power" is the more effective strategy.

read some Orwell, monk and kiron . ;)

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 5:15pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:16pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

What we really needed was a communist centrally planned economy. That way the mining boom would never have happened at all! But at least we would also ahve rampant poverty and hunger, not to mention concentration camps and death squads.

All much better than Howard's reign, what?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:01pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm:

No, dear, one look around the world would show you that prosperous countries put the money from mineral booms into sovereign wealth funds, like Denmark.

Denmark currently has the highest living standard in the world.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:08pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm:

It's Norway and they also have the highest cost of living in the world. Once the oil runs out they are in big trouble because they have pretty much nothing else.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:09pm

[quote author=the_good_ole_boys link=1450405280/2#2 date=1450405651]Blame Labor for that./quote]

Strange. I could have sworn Hawke and Keating quoted Donald Horne word for word in the first liberal market reforms ushered in since WWII.

I’m.sure Whitlam quoted Donald Horne when he funded the tertiary sector, introduced free health care, and had the first budget deficit since WWII.

Maybe I heard wrong, eh?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:11pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm:

It's Norway and they also have the highest cost of living in the world. Once the oil runs out they are in big trouble because they have pretty much nothing else.

You’re right, dear. Norway has the biggest sovereign wealth fund, and Denmark has the highest standard of living per capita.

The most expensive country in the world, with the greatest household wealth, is Switzerland.

And they don’t have any oil at all.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:12pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm:

read some Orwell

The same Orwell that was a Libertarian Communist and fought for a Council Communist Spain?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:14pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 5:15pm:

Do you ever have a point without resorting to personal insults, fallacies and hyperbole?

You're a retard. Stop posting and spreading your offtopic vile.

Also the mining boom wouldn't have happened in a Communist country? Wut? The entire USSR's economy was based on their own resources boom, it's why the USSR economy collapsed and never recovered when Oil prices went tits up with the Oil crisis because they never bothered diversifying away from their resources boom (and dumped kosygin reforms).

The Resources Curse seems to effect most countries that have huge amounts of resource wealth, Capitalist, Communist and everything inbetween.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:17pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm:

read some Orwell

The same Orwell that was a Libertarian Communist and fought for a Council Communist Spain?

Orwell fought for the POUM. He turned off communism. He came to favour the anarchists.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 8:21pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:14pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 5:15pm:

Do you ever have a point without resorting to personal insults, fallacies and hyperbole? .

Oh, yes. Maria’s point is that the Libs are just marvellous. More accurately, the leftards are hideous and vile.

Maria likes to keep a clean house. Even Hubbie is not allowed in without taking off his shoes.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 11:26pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:14pm:

Do you ever have a point without resorting to personal insults

.......do you?

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:14pm:

You're a retard

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

You're an idiot.

..........hmm I guess not :D

;D :D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:32am

At least I have points apart from insults, sadly neither of you two have.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:33am

Karnal wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:17pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 4:52pm:

read some Orwell

The same Orwell that was a Libertarian Communist and fought for a Council Communist Spain?

Orwell fought for the POUM. He turned off communism. He came to favour the anarchists.

Anarcho-Communism and Council Communism is still Communism. Technically the POUM though was Trotskyist.
Orwell, like most Socialists, detested Stalinism especially since they betrayed the POUM and CNT/FAI in the Spanish Civil War.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by aquascoot on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:35am

i'll pass on socialism and stick with free enterprise thank you very much.

tell me.

when the berlin wall came down , were there thousands of west berliners streaming into east berlin to queue for bread and turnips ;) ;)

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:40am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:35am:

The workers paradise was not so much a paradise.

Dont tell Kiron tho. He thinks the works technology was largely developed by Russia and all the deaths from poverty occur in capitalist countries.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by BlueBeard on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:44am

Kat wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Actually, Labor did none of those things.

But the LNP have certainly made-up for it.

only a dead set halfwit would believe that

and its halfwits that keep voting Labor that puts us in this mess

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Phemanderac on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:45am

First World Country? Are you sure?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Armchair_Politician on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:46am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:40pm:

Kat wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:36pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

NOT ONE single word of truth in that little diatribe.

Not ONE.

ALL LNP propaganda - nothing more.

how much has the alps failed invitation to illegals cost us ?

At least $8bn since 2007. That's up from less than $100m a year under Howard.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Armchair_Politician on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:47am

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Nice big structural Budget deficit tho. Didja forget about that?

Most people don't see a $22 billion surplus as any kind of deficit.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kat on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:20am

BlueBeard wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:44am:

Kat wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Actually, Labor did none of those things.

But the LNP have certainly made-up for it.

only a dead set halfwit would believe that

and its halfwits that keep voting Labor that puts us in this mess

Actually, dimbo, only a dead-set halfwit could argue against it.

Labor gets the country OUT of messes, not into them.

Historical fact - not spin.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by John Smith on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:27am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 2:07pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 1:18pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

Rubbish .... if you earn more money than your expenses do YOU give it back to your boss?

During the excesses of the boom is exactly when they should have built the infrastructure for the next century. Developed tomorrows industries. It's when they should have prepared Australia's superannuation for when it retired from China's boom. Giving back permanent tax cuts was easy vote buying.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:40am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 6:40am:

The workers paradise was not so much a paradise.

Dont tell Kiron tho. He thinks the works technology was largely developed by Russia and all the deaths from poverty occur in capitalist countries.

Oh yes, I totally think STALINIST countries that betrayed the Socialist ideal by turning Socialism into a conservative police state that rewound all the social and political gains of the proletarian revolution is totally some perfect utopia ::).

Also great to know you seem to think the third world doesn't exist or that Western countries didn't treat their workers as little more than cattle in the 19th and early-mid 20th century.

If anything, it was the threat of Socialist revolution in the west that actually gave us workers rights and social services. Imagine in the US how bad things would have gotten if the New Deal wasn't put through, a Communist revolution in at least the South West would have been inevitable (and small scale socialist uprisings were breaking out all over the working class south in the US)

Though I'm assuming you have no problem with Union workers, IWW activists and others being lynched and murdered by the thousands in the US by Government and business supported mass murdering Fascist paramilitaries like the American Protective League.

Again, great to see you Maria just resort to more fallacies. The Dunning Kruger effect is strong in you.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:56am

Kat wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:20am:

Labor gets the country OUT of messes, not into them.

Historical fact - not spin

Quote:

Labor gets the country OUT of messes, not into them.

~~Historical~~ indoctrinated fact

....fixed it for ya..... :D ;D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:10am

All Liberals do is stagnate the economy and progress.

Basically every Liberal Government has been "lost years" of development.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kat on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:39am

Swagman wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:56am:

Kat wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 8:20am:

Labor gets the country OUT of messes, not into them.

Historical fact - not spin

Quote:

Labor gets the country OUT of messes, not into them.

~~Historical~~ indoctrinated fact

....fixed it for ya..... :D ;D

So sayeth the actual indoctrinated one.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:52am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:08pm:

It's Norway and they also have the highest cost of living in the world. Once the oil runs out they are in big trouble because they have pretty much nothing else.

So...... in Oz where our costs of living have been artificially inflated through the roof via 'privatisation' and other grabs for cash by the insiders and booms in artificially inflated housing prices to suit the insiders (again) ... and where we've only had, for ages now, your much-beloved mining boom now defunct......... Australia is not in big trouble right now with the collapse of that mining boom?

What is your answer to the economy's woes built in by successive governments of fools on all sides? Rob the poor again? Make it impossible for them to eat asa means of stimulating the economy? Tax 'em all to death and feed your mates in the eternal hope that somehow they won't piss it away on nice houses and offshore trips and lifestyle, but will actually invest in something solid here in Oz to restore some (LMAO) 'trickle-down' to the starving peasants?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 10:33am

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:10am:

All Liberals do is stagnate the economy and progress.

Basically every Liberal Government has been "lost years" of development.

What rot.

The liberals foster the private sector, which is by far the biggest portion of the economy whilst trying to balance the budget.

Whilst the Left's primary mission in life is to bring down the private sector? ::) It's the left that is the economic retardant.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:41am

What private sector? Liberals foster nothing.
Oh wow, sycophancy to the mining, agriculture and retail industry while actively sabotaging everything actually productive like huge cuts in funding for IT development studios, renewable energy, Scientific R&D, manufacturing.

If the Liberals 'foster investment' why is Capital expenditure after 2 years of Liberal Government at an all time low? Why did they chase away 3 billion dollars of private investment into renewable energy, 3 BILLION DOLLARS OF INVESTMENT.

How about you stop being a Liberal party shill and open your eyes for once. The Liberal party is simply the political arm of entrenched dinosaur business cartels.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:44am

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:41am:

Has the global downturn escaped your attention, communist?

What we really need is central planning and a secret police, right?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:31pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 10:33am:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:10am:

All Liberals do is stagnate the economy and progress.

Basically every Liberal Government has been "lost years" of development.

Strange. The major reforms to support business in Australia have all been Labor’s. Even Gillard did more in her time than Howard. Cuts to company tax, raising the super contribution, funding paid parental leave, reforming the disability sector to ensure more workforce participation.

The most Howard did in his time was introduce Workchoices, only to have it all scrapped because he went too far.

I don’t support either major party, but I’d love to see a list of macro or micro economic reforms implimented by Howard, Fraser or Abbott.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:32pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

Maths, I think.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:35pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:41am:

What private sector?

....... ;D......that says it all ;D

Bam wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:43am:

How about you stop being a Liberal party shill and open your eyes for once. The Liberal party is simply the political arm of entrenched dinosaur business cartels.

Business cartels are illegal under competition legislation.

Not so Labour Cartels (Trade Unions).

Anti-competitive behaviour is their norm and this anti-competitive behaviour is fostered by the Labor party.

Competition is essential to a healthy economy.

Just one of the many reasons socialism fails and why socialist Labor should never form government.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:41pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

John 8:7

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:41pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:08pm:

It's Norway and they also have the highest cost of living in the world. Once the oil runs out they are in big trouble because they have pretty much nothing else.

I could answer, but really, what would be the point? What is the chance you could stay non-delusional long enough to understand? The rubbish you post mainly identifies your cognitive deficits as well as your mental health issues.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:44pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 10:33am:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:10am:

All Liberals do is stagnate the economy and progress.

Basically every Liberal Government has been "lost years" of development.

There are plenty, but you would either dispute them, deny them or pretend I didnt reply.

BTW the cuts to company tax came under ABBOTT. At least try and get your biased idiocy correct.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 1:00pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:41pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 6:08pm:

It's Norway and they also have the highest cost of living in the world. Once the oil runs out they are in big trouble because they have pretty much nothing else.

You use of words, as usual, out-strips your actual knowledge by many a country mile..... and your ethics and attitude are those of the kind of gutter snakes which inhabit Liberal party rooms....

You can't answer the question, can you? I'll try it in small words for you:-

Since the mining boom has virtually collapsed here, as you say will occur in Norway, and our costs of living have boomed to meet that supposed boom and the supposed profitability of the country as a whole - and Norway has salted away billions in interest bearing areas, whereas Australia has only salted away the futures fund for politicians and public servants - how then - since OUR 'boom' has collapsed... will Australia NOT HERE AND NOW be in the trouble you say Norway will be in?

Not that hard really..... and I'd say more penetrating than 'delusional' as you so desperately seek to suggest.... now answer the question or go home.

Fish in a barrel, these purported Liberal private school twerps..... fish in a barrel...

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 1:02pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 10:33am:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:10am:

All Liberals do is stagnate the economy and progress.

Basically every Liberal Government has been "lost years" of development.

There are plenty, but you would either dispute them, deny them or pretend I didnt reply.

BTW the cuts to company tax came under ABBOTT. At least try and get your biased idiocy correct.

Totally incorrect - I beleive it was YOU who posted less than a week ago that Labor had reduced CT to 33% and your mat ToJo had reduced it to 30%..... nice little kick either way...

Do you even remember what you post? Or do you make it up on the fly?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 1:09pm

Chew down on this.... it's only Wiki, but hell.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway

"The economy of Norway is a developed mixed economy with state-ownership in strategic areas. Although sensitive to global business cycles, the economy of Norway has shown robust growth since the start of the industrial era. Shipping has long been a support of Norway's export sector, but much of Norway's economic growth has been fueled by an abundance of natural resources, including petroleum exploration and production, hydroelectric power, and fisheries. Agriculture and traditional heavy manufacturing have suffered relative decline compared to services and oil-related industries, and the public sector is among the largest in the world as a percentage of the overall gross domestic product. The country has a very high standard of living compared with other European countries, and a strongly integrated welfare system. Norway's modern manufacturing and welfare system rely on a financial reserve produced by exploitation of natural resources, particularly North Sea oil".

Bite down hard.... compare this with Australia at this time..... where are our 'mixed industries' these days? All gone with the wind...... hardly any fisheries, hardly any timber felling, disappearing tertiary industry and heavy industry, a sell-out petroleum industry (price linked to Singapore, an oil-less island) - and a desperate shove by governments to dispose of any control over 'strategic industries' AND infrastructure such as roads etc, and to shuffle off all social security in every way (apart from that which benefits themselves, of course).

Where is the comparison with Norway? ::)

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kiron22 on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 3:29pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:35pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:41am:

What private sector?

....... ;D......that says it all ;D

Seriously, what real private sector outside of the Liberal Parties vested interests? Australia has some of the lowest capital expenditure in the western world, Australia has a massively centralized economy dominated by a handful of sectors.

Capital expenditure has completely collapsed under Liberal Government, Abbott purposely chased away billions of dollars of outside investment in the Australian economy.

Howard sat on his hands for a DECADE doing basically nothing while Australian development studios and research pissed off overseas. The largest Solar company on earth was developed in New South Wales and is now owned by the Chinese Government, all thanks to Howard.

Quote:

Business cartels are illegal under competition legislation.

Oh okay, giant conglomerations of landed businesses that work together to keep a stranglehold on the Australian economy and pay off Politicians to do their bidding. Is that better for you

Quote:

Competition is essential to a healthy economy.

Which is why the Liberal party has done everything in it's power to chase away any industry or development or investment of anything that hurts their backers?

Take a leaf out of your own book.

Oh and I love how that dumbbugger Maria thinks the GFC never happened, yet the world is going through a massive downturn which has ended all investment in Australia apparently. ;D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Kat on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:08pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

And the silly twat STILL knows NOTHING about communism.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 5:19pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 10:33am:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:10am:

All Liberals do is stagnate the economy and progress.

Basically every Liberal Government has been "lost years" of development.

There are plenty, but you would either dispute them, deny them or pretend I didnt reply.

BTW the cuts to company tax came under ABBOTT. At least try and get your biased idiocy correct.

So provide a list, dear, there's no need to be coy with us. We'll have a little look-see.

I promise to reply.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by mariacostel on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:36am

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

Take the hint...

nowhining.jpg (113 KB | 34 )

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Armchair_Politician on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:42am

Kat wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

And the silly twat STILL knows NOTHING about communism.

If that happens, can Kat be banned also for twice as long due to abuse?

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:56am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:42am:

Kat wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

And the silly twat STILL knows NOTHING about communism.

If that happens, can Kat be banned also for twice as long due to abuse?

Says the Very Nice Person calling anyone who challenges him or his belief “idiot” or “bloody idiot” etc like 20 times a day.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by John Smith on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 8:01am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:41pm:

I could answer, but really, what would be the point?

who are you trying to kid? :D :D :D

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Karnal on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 11:38am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:36am:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

Mods, can Maria please be banned. What does she/he even contribute to any conversation ever apart from abuse?

Take the hint...

Good idea, dear. Post a kooky sign and duck out of the thread.

That should do it.

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 11:54am

John Smith wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 8:01am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:41pm:

I could answer, but really, what would be the point?

who are you trying to kid? :D :D :D

Anyone can provide and answer - the virtue of the answer lies in its content.......

I believe it is the content that longmania is afraid to show for fear of copping the usual roasting for uttering nonsense....

On the positive side, I have noted that longmania posts the occasional gem of truth.. however.. the effect of such things on the public mind is drowned out by the Niagara of falsehoods, assumptions, unproven and unsupported statements and personal vitriol.

Of course, that is the sign of an educated mind schooled in research.....

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by The Grappler on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 12:12pm

longmania also has a decided Hitlerian approach... of taking on more enemies than he can chew....

Title: Re: Third World Governments, First World Country
Post by Swagman on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 12:26pm