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Message started by Sir Crook on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:26am

Title: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Sir Crook on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:26am
East West Link: It's a mess, Michael O'Brien, much of it is your fault

Date
    December 9, 2015
    The Age



Michael O'Brien must quit as shadow treasurer. His position is untenable after Wednesday's report from Victoria's financial watchdog found the East West Link debacle has cost taxpayers $780 million.   :(

The report is a case study of how not to deliver big projects – a ham-fisted process we would mock if it occurred in other countries.


Shadow Treasurer Michael O'Brien remains unapologetic about his role in the cost to the state of the failed East West Link project.

It was political opportunism and blackmail at its worst, and, as treasurer in the Napthine government, O'Brien led the charge for this project – even signing a side-letter to reassure the East West Connect consortium (EWC) that it would be paid.   :( 

The acting Auditor-General Peter Frost found the business case for the East West Link "did not provide a sound basis for the government's decision to commit to the investment".

Key decisions during the project's planning, development and procurement phases were driven by an overriding sense of urgency to sign the contract before the November 2014 state election. Signing the contract in these circumstances was imprudent and exposed the state to significant cost and risk.


The East West Link was pursued by the former Coalition state government in the face of unanswered questions about its commercial viability.   :(

"From its inception to its termination the EWL project was not managed effectively and it will become an important marker in the history of public administration in this state," Frost said.

Well, the buck stops with you, Michael O'Brien. Signing the public up to a project no one voted for, and exposing taxpayers to a huge financial loss, is unforgivable.

At the time of signing the contract, it was Labor Party policy to scrap the project. There was also a court challenge under way. Labor was ahead in the polls and had been for at least a year –  it was the clear favourite to win the election.

As treasurer of this state, O'Brien should have taken this $23 billion project to an election –  scheduled to be held just 60 days after the contracts were signed.

Not one cent would have been wasted if people had been given the  chance to vote. If the coalition won, the project went ahead; if  it lost, taxpayers were not out of pocket.

It was reckless to sign the East West contract.   :(

This is a watershed report – not just for governments. In many ways, this Auditor-General's report is a low point for Victoria's public service. It said there had been "too much emphasis to the benefits of approaches that were in line with the government preferred outcome and little emphasis to alternative options that could be argued were more aligned with the state's best interests".

"Over the life of this costly and complex project, advice to government did not always meet the expected standard of being frank and fearless. This highlights a risk to the integrity of public administration that needs to be addressed," Frost said.

Some public officials, he said, indicated "frank and fearless advice when they believe a government does not want to receive it will negatively impact their influence or career opportunities".

What a mess.

It is not even clear the millions of dollars taxpayers have paid out in costs were justified, with the consortium refusing to hand over expenditure paperwork. "This created a risk that EWC's related parties had a windfall gain," Frost found.

The Andrews government does not escape unscathed either. It did not do enough to consider the full impact of continuing with the project – the benefits of termination against the costs. And its heroic boast in opposition, that cancelling the contract would not involve a compensation payment, has proved to be expensive spin – or a lie – you decide.

But it is the haste to sign this contract that led to this disastrous outcome. At a media conference on Wednesday, O'Brien said the East West Link payment could have instead funded a new hospital or dozens of new schools and trains. Yes, it could have.

O'Brien was asked if he would like to apologise for the East West Link mess, take any responsibility, or if he had any regrets. No, no, no. It is all Daniel Andrews' and Tim Pallas' fault.

No one has been held accountable for this mess,  which will leave taxpayers almost $800 million worse off. At the very least, the person in charge of the money at the time should take some responsibility

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Sir Crook on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:31am
    It is not the ALP's fault, and quite demonstrably so... read on...

    The ALP went to a state election with this AS POLICY. No ifs or buts... this was stated as something they would do.

    The Prime Minister of the day (one Tony Abbott) declared the state election as a 'referendum on the east-west link'.

    The electorate rejected the East-West link quite clearly.

    It can no way be described as the 'fault' of the ALP.

    The electorate was presented with a clear choice on the matter, and voted accordingly.

    The LNP on the other hand, attempted to force some pretty shady contracts through before the election.

    ...and they wonder why we rejected them.

    Sheesh.

    The 'fault' (if there is one) lies squarely at the feet of the LNP, and not the ALP, who (on this matter at least) have acted entirely as they said they would, and with the imprimatur of the Victorian electorate.

    It seems that what many are rejecting is that a duly elected government are actually enacting their stated policy.

    I realise that this may be novel, but I for one welcome it.

Commenter
    yup
Date and time
    December 09, 2015, 10:27PM   :(

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by stunspore on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:39am
No doubt the lib supporters will drill on the how wasteful it was. 

More wasteful if the actual road was built. 

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by SupositoryofWisdom on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:40am
The economic vandals knčw they were going to be one term wonders so thought they may as well try and lampoon Labor for chits and giggles.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by mariacostel on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:00am
Its laughable reading laborites complaining about projects not being taken to an election. They do it all the time.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by stunspore on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:27am
Well, the EW link was taken to the election with a resounding NO.  Even though the contract shouldn't be signed.  Even though the payoff is negative.  Etc. Etc. 

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by philperth2010 on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:33am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:00am:
Its laughable reading laborites complaining about projects not being taken to an election. They do it all the time.


Tony Abbott certainly trumped any previous Government for lying about his election promises!!!

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by aquascoot on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by cods on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:41am
NOTHING IS EVER LABORS FAULT....

NO NEED TO EXPLAIN THAT CROOK.




wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:31am:
It is not the ALP's fault, and quite demonstrably so... read on...




::) ::)

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by LEUT Bigvicfella (RTD) on Dec 10th, 2015 at 8:36am

stunspore wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:27am:
Well, the EW link was taken to the election with a resounding NO.  Even though the contract shouldn't be signed.  Even though the payoff is negative.  Etc. Etc. 



Let em have their day in the sun bagging Labor.     The Daniels Government is doing great in Vic - they have lived up to all election promises to date and reversed some of the appalling Liberal Governments "Captain's Calls" that Ballieu/Napthine bought in.  As long as the Vic Libs stay in the basement of Vic Parliament house, Vic will be fine

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by stunspore on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:10am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(


Better to cut short losses than to do a EW link costing many times more.  Libs were the one to sign up Victoria without support from the electorate and with a business case showing very little if any returns.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by John Smith on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:16am
libs should be charged with rorting the taxpayers for signing that letter guaranteeing income. They knew they would lose the election  but signed it anyway

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:23am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(

John Useless Howard pissed $350Bn up against the wall. Worse than that, he built his profligacy into the Budget and so we are STILL pissing money up against the wall, money we no longer have! Talk about irresponsibility!

The EW Link would have sucked up vast amounts of money, money that would not be returned by the operation of the Link. Dumb!

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Armchair_Politician on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:04am

Vic wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 8:36am:

stunspore wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:27am:
Well, the EW link was taken to the election with a resounding NO.  Even though the contract shouldn't be signed.  Even though the payoff is negative.  Etc. Etc. 



Let em have their day in the sun bagging Labor.     The Daniels Government is doing great in Vic - they have lived up to all election promises to date and reversed some of the appalling Liberal Governments "Captain's Calls" that Ballieu/Napthine bought in.  As long as the Vic Libs stay in the basement of Vic Parliament house, Vic will be fine


Sure are - costing the State taxpayers literally billions in cancelled projects and stupid-ass public holidays for footy games. This may turn out to be the most wasteful Victorian government since Federation.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Armchair_Politician on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:05am

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(

John Useless Howard pissed $350Bn up against the wall. Worse than that, he built his profligacy into the Budget and so we are STILL pissing money up against the wall, money we no longer have! Talk about irresponsibility!

The EW Link would have sucked up vast amounts of money, money that would not be returned by the operation of the Link. Dumb!


That's news to the rest of the country. How exactly did he do that?

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:21am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:05am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(

John Useless Howard pissed $350Bn up against the wall. Worse than that, he built his profligacy into the Budget and so we are STILL pissing money up against the wall, money we no longer have! Talk about irresponsibility!

The EW Link would have sucked up vast amounts of money, money that would not be returned by the operation of the Link. Dumb!


That's news to the rest of the country. How exactly did he do that?

It is not news to the rest of the country.

As to how he did it, read JohnSmiths list of changes that should be made before increasing the GST is even considered.

Howard was both high taxing and high spending. This is not news, except perhaps to Daily Toilet readers.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Kytro on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:21pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(


;D You think large companies have never pissed away significant amounts of money?

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by teddybear on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:26pm

Kytro wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:21pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(


;D You think large companies have never pissed away significant amounts of money?


;) ;) FINE  but it's not tax payer's money!

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by aquascoot on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:30pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:21am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:05am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(

John Useless Howard pissed $350Bn up against the wall. Worse than that, he built his profligacy into the Budget and so we are STILL pissing money up against the wall, money we no longer have! Talk about irresponsibility!

The EW Link would have sucked up vast amounts of money, money that would not be returned by the operation of the Link. Dumb!


That's news to the rest of the country. How exactly did he do that?

It is not news to the rest of the country.

As to how he did it, read JohnSmiths list of changes that should be made before increasing the GST is even considered.

Howard was both high taxing and high spending. This is not news, except perhaps to Daily Toilet readers.



you would , therefore, have supported abbott and hockeys first budget which attempted to rein in spending ??

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Kytro on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:21pm

teddybear wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:26pm:

Kytro wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:21pm:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(


;D You think large companies have never pissed away significant amounts of money?


;) ;) FINE  but it's not tax payer's money!


That's true, politics makes it unavoidable though.

Had they gone through with the deal it would have cost more in "wasted" money.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by John Smith on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:24pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:21am:
As to how he did it, read JohnSmiths list of changes that should be made before increasing the GST is even considered.



to be honest I pinched the list of someone else's comment on another thread that I happened to be scrolling through at the time  ..... i don't remember who made the original list or on what thread

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by John Smith on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:27pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:30pm:
you would , therefore, have supported abbott and hockeys first budget which attempted to rein in spending ??



except for two thing

1. He wasn't reigning in spending. He was cutting it from one place and spending it elsewhere. His PPL was still in play for one.

2. He was cutting the spending from the wrong end of town. he tried to punish those who couldn't afford it.

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by LEUT Bigvicfella (RTD) on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:58pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Vic wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 8:36am:

stunspore wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:27am:
Well, the EW link was taken to the election with a resounding NO.  Even though the contract shouldn't be signed.  Even though the payoff is negative.  Etc. Etc. 



Let em have their day in the sun bagging Labor.     The Daniels Government is doing great in Vic - they have lived up to all election promises to date and reversed some of the appalling Liberal Governments "Captain's Calls" that Ballieu/Napthine bought in.  As long as the Vic Libs stay in the basement of Vic Parliament house, Vic will be fine


Sure are - costing the State taxpayers literally billions in cancelled projects and stupid-ass public holidays for footy games. This may turn out to be the most wasteful Victorian government since Federation.


If the spend on anything Liberals hadn't locked in contracts for East/West Link, then there would be little money out of pocket.   That is one reason the sad-assed Liberals done here will remain in opposition for decades.   In one term of government, they nearly wrecked a great state.  It will take Labor years to turn around their mess.  Most of them have jumped ship anyway - they knew their party was stuffed.    Speaking of costing billions, did you hear the one about the senior liberal administrative bloke who flogged the Liberals slush fund from under their noses?      Not content with this bloke robbing the Tassie Libs blind, the Vic Libs hired him to do the same to them.!!!

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by mariacostel on Dec 10th, 2015 at 3:30pm

Vic wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:58pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Vic wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 8:36am:

stunspore wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:27am:
Well, the EW link was taken to the election with a resounding NO.  Even though the contract shouldn't be signed.  Even though the payoff is negative.  Etc. Etc. 



Let em have their day in the sun bagging Labor.     The Daniels Government is doing great in Vic - they have lived up to all election promises to date and reversed some of the appalling Liberal Governments "Captain's Calls" that Ballieu/Napthine bought in.  As long as the Vic Libs stay in the basement of Vic Parliament house, Vic will be fine


Sure are - costing the State taxpayers literally billions in cancelled projects and stupid-ass public holidays for footy games. This may turn out to be the most wasteful Victorian government since Federation.


If the spend on anything Liberals hadn't locked in contracts for East/West Link, then there would be little money out of pocket.   That is one reason the sad-assed Liberals done here will remain in opposition for decades.   In one term of government, they nearly wrecked a great state.  It will take Labor years to turn around their mess.  Most of them have jumped ship anyway - they knew their party was stuffed.    Speaking of costing billions, did you hear the one about the senior liberal administrative bloke who flogged the Liberals slush fund from under their noses?      Not content with this bloke robbing the Tassie Libs blind, the Vic Libs hired him to do the same to them.!!!



Mess? lowest unemployment, healthiest budget in the nation. Not exactly a disaster, is it. Meanwhile in the perennially labor states of SA and TAS unemployment in dreadful while in NSW - lib heartland - it is 5.2%

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by Jovial Monk on Dec 10th, 2015 at 3:37pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 12:30pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:21am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:05am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 9:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:35am:
did i read that politicians in victoria have pisssed over a billion dollars up against the wall.

yet another reason why we should let free enterprise run nearly everything that they are capable of running.
free enterprise would never allow this to happen.

how pitiful  >:( >:(

John Useless Howard pissed $350Bn up against the wall. Worse than that, he built his profligacy into the Budget and so we are STILL pissing money up against the wall, money we no longer have! Talk about irresponsibility!

The EW Link would have sucked up vast amounts of money, money that would not be returned by the operation of the Link. Dumb!


That's news to the rest of the country. How exactly did he do that?

It is not news to the rest of the country.

As to how he did it, read JohnSmiths list of changes that should be made before increasing the GST is even considered.

Howard was both high taxing and high spending. This is not news, except perhaps to Daily Toilet readers.



you would , therefore, have supported abbott and hockeys first budget which attempted to rein in spending ??

Of course not. Do you think I want the young unemployed not able to access assistance for six months of each year? If that Budget had passed unemployment would have passed 10% by now easily. You know nothing, do you?

Title: Re: Mr O'Brien The East West Link Is A Mess
Post by LEUT Bigvicfella (RTD) on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:31pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 3:30pm:

Vic wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:58pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Vic wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 8:36am:

stunspore wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:27am:
Well, the EW link was taken to the election with a resounding NO.  Even though the contract shouldn't be signed.  Even though the payoff is negative.  Etc. Etc. 



Let em have their day in the sun bagging Labor.     The Daniels Government is doing great in Vic - they have lived up to all election promises to date and reversed some of the appalling Liberal Governments "Captain's Calls" that Ballieu/Napthine bought in.  As long as the Vic Libs stay in the basement of Vic Parliament house, Vic will be fine


Sure are - costing the State taxpayers literally billions in cancelled projects and stupid-ass public holidays for footy games. This may turn out to be the most wasteful Victorian government since Federation.


If the spend on anything Liberals hadn't locked in contracts for East/West Link, then there would be little money out of pocket.   That is one reason the sad-assed Liberals done here will remain in opposition for decades.   In one term of government, they nearly wrecked a great state.  It will take Labor years to turn around their mess.  Most of them have jumped ship anyway - they knew their party was stuffed.    Speaking of costing billions, did you hear the one about the senior liberal administrative bloke who flogged the Liberals slush fund from under their noses?      Not content with this bloke robbing the Tassie Libs blind, the Vic Libs hired him to do the same to them.!!!



Mess? lowest unemployment, healthiest budget in the nation. Not exactly a disaster, is it. Meanwhile in the perennially labor states of SA and TAS unemployment in dreadful while in NSW - lib heartland - it is 5.2%


And that would be pinned on 12 years of previous Labor, yes?    What exactly did the Libs achieve in their one and only term that could be construed as a successful follow in for the present Labor government?

The Coalition Government in Victoria were just the pits!  I didn't mind Ballieu, I just felt his whole front bench were lacking and not supporting him.  Funnily enough, I quite like Turnbull, but you can almost see the knives glinting in the background

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