"A private donor will give a massive $14.7 million to fund Australia's first evidence-based suicide prevention programs, to be run by the Black Dog Institute"

link

Ummm, I know I'm going to regret this, but why?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:53am:

Ummm, I know I'm going to regret this, but why?

Yeah, I'd also like to know Herbie's opposition to suicide prevention.

mariacostel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:12am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 8:53am: Ummm, I know I'm going to regret this, but why? Yeah, I'd also like to know Herbie's opposition to suicide prevention.

$14.7 million dollars to stop people euthanasing themselves?

What the hell has money got to do with stopping people from committing suicide?

What's the problem with using the teachers at our schools and universities from giving the occasional talk about suicide prevention and how anyone feeling suicidal should contact the counselors who already exist in every teaching institution?

Cost factor? Zero.

Why does it take $14.7 million dollars to tell 'Those at Risk' to go see their GP as a first step towards getting psychiatric help?

Cost factor for GP services and Letter of Reference to see a Specialist? Zero.

All of these options are so bloody obvious.

It's FREE at our schools.

It's FREE at our universities.

It's FREE at your local GP's office.

NO Government 'Community Message' on TV or in the print media is EVER going to make a cracker of a difference to someone contemplating suicide.

It doesn't cost $14.7 million bugger*** dollars to tell those who are depressed, to go see their GP.

What we're seeing here is a MONEY GRAB by the Usual Suspects to feather their own nest on the pretext of providing a Community Service.

It's like the bullshit government 'grants' funding for Climate Change lectures in our schools by visiting bullshit artists ... and 'talks' on the 'benefits' of multiculturalism and 'How not to be a Racist' ... and government funding for Islamic schools ... etc.

It's like throwing millions at the Aboriginal Victimhood Industry with almost no beneficial results whatsoever.

We have patients living on gurneys in the corridors of our Sydney hospitals because of lack of government funding and lack of monies coming through rich men's Deceased Estate legacies.

The first priority is that funding should go towards those who want to live, but are doing it tough.

I've personally known four people who 'topped' themselves. One by gun, one by knife, one by poison, and the other I never did find out.

That was their decision. They had options, but didn't access any of them.


Priorities - it's all about priorities.

1. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you  whining.


2. Getting teachers to give talks will require giving them training in order to do talks. WIll cost money

3. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining.

4. Suicide is more than just euthanasing yourself

5. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining.


6. Involving GPs means paying them for time, which will cost the government money.

7. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining.

8. We don't know what else his money was used for, maybe it was for these magical gurney residing patients.

9. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining.


No I know points 1,3,5,7 and 9 are the same, but I thought they were so important and so f***ing obviously missed by you Herbie that I need to remind you of them 5 times.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:53am:

$14.7 million dollars to stop people euthanasing themselves? What the hell has money got to do with stopping people from committing suicide?

I would have thought it was self-evident, programs cost money to implement.


Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:53am:

What's the problem with using the teachers at our schools and universities from giving the occasional talk about suicide prevention and how anyone feeling suicidal should contact the counselors who already exist in every teaching institution? Cost factor? Zero.

If you had read the article, you would know they are indeed including these people, but they need to be appropriately trained.


Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:53am:

Why does it take $14.7 million dollars to tell 'Those at Risk' to go see their GP as a first step towards getting psychiatric help? Cost factor for GP services and Letter of Reference to see a Specialist? Zero. All of these options are so bloody obvious. It's FREE at our schools. It's FREE at our universities. It's FREE at your local GP's office. NO Government 'Community Message' on TV or in the print media is EVER going to make a cracker of a difference to someone contemplating suicide. It doesn't cost $14.7 million bugger*** dollars to tell those who are depressed, to go see their GP. What we're seeing here is a MONEY GRAB by the Usual Suspects to feather their own nest on the pretext of providing a Community Service. It's like the bullshit government 'grants' funding for Climate Change lectures in our schools by visiting bullshit artists ... and 'talks' on the 'benefits' of multiculturalism and 'How not to be a Racist' ... and government funding for Islamic schools ... etc. It's like throwing millions at the Aboriginal Victimhood Industry with almost no beneficial results whatsoever. We have patients living on gurneys in the corridors of our Sydney hospitals because of lack of government funding and lack of monies coming through rich men's Deceased Estate legacies. The first priority is that funding should go towards those who want to live, but are doing it tough. I've personally known four people who 'topped' themselves. One by gun, one by knife, one by poison, and the other I never did find out. That was their decision. They had options, but didn't access any of them. Priorities - it's all about priorities.

Different people have different priorities. Perhaps he has lost one or more loved ones to suicide and wishes to prevent it.

Depression is as legitimate an ailment as cancer, simply because it affects the mind and not the body does not make it any less real or dangerous.




[/quote]

mariacostel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:12am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 8:53am: Ummm, I know I'm going to regret this, but why? Yeah, I'd also like to know Herbie's opposition to suicide prevention.

Simple.

"troll: one who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument".

What is the problem with people suiciding ?

It's hardly as though humans are a scarce resource.

"Profile of the Sociopath

"Shallow Emotions:

"When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive.

"Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises."

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 10:19am:

What is the problem with people suiciding ? It's hardly as though humans are a scarce resource.

Every human life is precious.

What specific religion do you follow Sprint?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 10:08am:

1. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you  whining. 2. Getting teachers to give talks will require giving them training in order to do talks. WIll cost money 3. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. 4. Suicide is more than just euthanasing yourself 5. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. 6. Involving GPs means paying them for time, which will cost the government money. 7. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. 8. We don't know what else his money was used for, maybe it was for these magical gurney residing patients. 9. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. No I know points 1,3,5,7 and 9 are the same, but I thought they were so important and so f***ing obviously missed by you Herbie that I need to remind you of them 5 times.

Only 5 times? You are being generous. Reducing Suicide involves training, staff and research. All this costs money and effort.  The government could have (and probably should have) put up this money but I certainly wont condemn a private individual for it.

mariacostel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 11:19am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:08am: 1. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you  whining. 2. Getting teachers to give talks will require giving them training in order to do talks. WIll cost money 3. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. 4. Suicide is more than just euthanasing yourself 5. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. 6. Involving GPs means paying them for time, which will cost the government money. 7. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. 8. We don't know what else his money was used for, maybe it was for these magical gurney residing patients. 9. Its not your money, its a private donors, why are you whining. No I know points 1,3,5,7 and 9 are the same, but I thought they were so important and so f***ing obviously missed by you Herbie that I need to remind you of them 5 times. Only 5 times? You are being generous. Reducing Suicide involves training, staff and research. All this costs money and effort.  The government could have (and probably should have) put up this money but I certainly wont condemn a private individual for it.

Well I ran out of motivation

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 10:19am:

What is the problem with people suiciding ? It's hardly as though humans are a scarce resource.

Because when a person suicide, this will negatively impact on others and hence the society.

They are not just some random strangers on the street.  They are someone's mother, father, daughter, son and more. 

I am a bit shocked at some of the cavalier attitudes to human life expressed in this thread.

mariacostel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:26pm:

I am a bit shocked at some of the cavalier attitudes to human life expressed in this thread.

You'll have to forgive Sprint. He's a good Christian.

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 11:35am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:19am: What is the problem with people suiciding ? It's hardly as though humans are a scarce resource. Because when a person suicide, this will negatively impact on others and hence the society. They are not just some random strangers on the street.  They are someone's mother, father, daughter, son and more.

Quote:

.............They are someone's mother, father, daughter, son and more...........

I am sure they are aware of that.

Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that.
Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no'.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 10:11am:

Simple. "troll: one who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument".

That describes you peccahead. ;D

mothra wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:31pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:26pm: I am a bit shocked at some of the cavalier attitudes to human life expressed in this thread. You'll have to forgive Sprint. He's a good Christian.

                    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8Uoq99xqvRE/TDgJHn3xGnI/AAAAAAAAGhk/_GkJzbNxK3U/s1600/Muttley-small.gif

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:35am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:19am: What is the problem with people suiciding ? It's hardly as though humans are a scarce resource. Because when a person suicide, this will negatively impact on others and hence the society. They are not just some random strangers on the street.  They are someone's mother, father, daughter, son and more.  Quote: .............They are someone's mother, father, daughter, son and more........... I am sure they are aware of that. Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no'.

Before you get to the point of human overpopulation which will be combated hardly at all by the effect of suicide on the community, doesn't you mind go at all to the human suffering and anguish of suicide both on the person committing it and upon those that love them?

Tell me Sprint, how does a follower of Christ completely bypass that?

That 14.7 million, is it going to hurt anyone?

You know it might even save the odd life or two...that would make it worth it...wouldn't it? :)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm:

Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no'

Well, to be honest, it would be far more beneficial to address overpopulation by rounding up all those who have been deluded by organised religion and off them...

Population problem solved, and, arguably some of the suicide issue addressed simultaneously, less of the population being molested, terrorised, murdered, brow beaten and robbed via donations...

red baron wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 3:30pm:

That 14.7 million, is it going to hurt anyone?

It's going to hurt a lot of people who will never benefit from what that money can buy.

There are people living in rural NSW who have to come all the way to Sydney for radio-therapy for cancer because they don't have the equipment out there in the country towns.

They don't have MRI and CT scanners out there in the country towns - essential diagnostic tools that save lives.

And then there are hundreds of homeless folk sleeping rough in Sydney every night.

There's always money needed to expand and improve refuge accommodation for battered wives.


red baron wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 3:30pm:

You know it might even save the odd life or two...that would make it worth it...wouldn't it? :)

No, most definitely not worth it.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 5:23pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:30pm: That 14.7 million, is it going to hurt anyone? It's going to hurt a lot of people who will never benefit from what that money can buy. There are people living in rural NSW who have to come all the way to Sydney for radio-therapy for cancer because they don't have the equipment out there in the country towns. They don't have MRI and CT scanners out there in the country towns - essential diagnostic tools that save lives. And then there are hundreds of homeless folk sleeping rough in Sydney every night. There's always money needed to expand and improve refuge accommodation for battered wives. red baron wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:30pm: You know it might even save the odd life or two...that would make it worth it...wouldn't it? :) No, most definitely not worth it.

There are always important things to spend money on Herbie. There are no shortage of areas of need.

About 2,500 people kill themselves in Australia every year. That is an unacceptable figure. Anything that can be done to staunch the loss is money well spent.

And what do you mean not worth it if one or two lives are saved? Are you saying a person isn't worth 14 million dollars?

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 5:23pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:30pm: That 14.7 million, is it going to hurt anyone? It's going to hurt a lot of people who will never benefit from what that money can buy. There are people living in rural NSW who have to come all the way to Sydney for radio-therapy for cancer because they don't have the equipment out there in the country towns. They don't have MRI and CT scanners out there in the country towns - essential diagnostic tools that save lives. And then there are hundreds of homeless folk sleeping rough in Sydney every night. There's always money needed to expand and improve refuge accommodation for battered wives. red baron wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:30pm: You know it might even save the odd life or two...that would make it worth it...wouldn't it? :) No, most definitely not worth it.

Well if you don't think he should be spending this money, the government can tax it all and spend it for him

Kytro wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 5:51pm:

Well if you don't think he should be spending this money, the ...

People's ability to misrepresent what others have written or said has always been a matter of profound curiosity to me.

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:38pm: Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no' Well, to be honest, it would be far more beneficial to address overpopulation by rounding up all those who have been deluded by organised religion and off them... Population problem solved, and, arguably some of the suicide issue addressed simultaneously, less of the population being molested, terrorised, murdered, brow beaten and robbed via donations...

Sure, but these pitiful few are helping.

mothra wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 5:30pm:

And what do you mean not worth it if one or two lives are saved? Are you saying a person isn't worth 14 million dollars?

You've got that right.

Did the Australian government that wept crocodile tears over the execution of those two drug importers offer the Indonesian government 14.7 million dollars to save their hides?

Of course it didn't.

How many Australians went out into the streets in mass demonstrations to protest about young Australians being sent over there to Vietnam to get shot, wounded, killed and mentally f*cked-up over a matter that had absolutely NOTHING to do with defending Australia against invasion?

And Iraq

And Afghanistan

And Syria

All 'engagements' that have, and are, costing the lives and limbs of young Australians for no discernible reason other than to play lap-dog to American interests in the region.

Have our federal and State governments replaced all those psychiatric hospitals they sold-and-stole for the real estate value back in the early 80's?

No they haven't.

Our government doesn't give a tinker's cuss about mental health and spending money on support centres.

**

'Charity' is a HUUUUUGE racket in this country which feathers a lot of nests before the people it's intended for see a brass razoo of it.

It's a huge money-spinner for the various churches and private agencies that suck the blood out of these donations like leaches, ticks, remora and other parasites.

"The massive size of the charity and not-for-profit sector has, for the first time, been revealed in a report by the sector's regulator.

The Australian Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission (ACNC) has released the Australia's Charities in 2014 report which showed that the sector was a $103 billion industry that employed almost one-in-10 Australians.

The report also revealed that Australia's charities spent $95 billion in 2014.

This consisted of $51.8 billion on employee expenses, $4.5 billion on grants and donations and $38.7 billion on other expenses".

... dear O dear O dear ...

link
   
WHERE are the new psychiatric centres?

WHERE are the Special Accommodation blocks for the Homeless?

WHERE are the REFUGES for those 'at risk' of domestic violence?

etc etc ...

A $103 BILLION industry per year! - and still the annual suicide rate is in its thousands, and still there's not enough accommodation to take in all of the homeless who live on the streets, and still there are families living in fear of violent husbands with nowhere to turn to ...

Incidentally - a staggering 800 people sleep on the streets at night in Darwin due to lack of accommodation for the drunk and the homeless.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 6:50am:

mothra wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 5:30pm: And what do you mean not worth it if one or two lives are saved? Are you saying a person isn't worth 14 million dollars? You've got that right. Did the Australian government that wept crocodile tears over the execution of those two drug importers offer the Indonesian government 14.7 million dollars to save their hides? Of course it didn't. How many Australians went out into the streets in mass demonstrations to protest about young Australians being sent over there to Vietnam to get shot, wounded, killed and mentally f*cked-up over a matter that had absolutely NOTHING to do with defending Australia against invasion? And Iraq And Afghanistan And Syria All 'engagements' that have, and are, costing the lives and limbs of young Australians for no discernible reason other than to play lap-dog to American interests in the region. Have our federal and State governments replaced all those psychiatric hospitals they sold-and-stole for the real estate value back in the early 80's? No they haven't. Our government doesn't give a tinker's cuss about mental health and spending money on support centres. ** 'Charity' is a HUUUUUGE racket in this country which feathers a lot of nests before the people it's intended for see a brass razoo of it. It's a huge money-spinner for the various churches and private agencies that suck the blood out of these donations like leaches, ticks, remora and other parasites. "The massive size of the charity and not-for-profit sector has, for the first time, been revealed in a report by the sector's regulator. The Australian Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission (ACNC) has released the Australia's Charities in 2014 report which showed that the sector was a $103 billion industry that employed almost one-in-10 Australians. The report also revealed that Australia's charities spent $95 billion in 2014. This consisted of $51.8 billion on employee expenses, $4.5 billion on grants and donations and $38.7 billion on other expenses". ... dear O dear O dear ... link     WHERE are the new psychiatric centres? WHERE are the Special Accommodation blocks for the Homeless? WHERE are the REFUGES for those 'at risk' of domestic violence? etc etc ... A $103 BILLION industry per year! - and still the annual suicide rate is in its thousands, and still there's not enough accommodation to take in all of the homeless who live on the streets, and still there are families living in fear of violent husbands with nowhere to turn to ... Incidentally - a staggering 800 people sleep on the streets at night in Darwin due to lack of accommodation for the drunk and the homeless.

You need help.  You have some very serious anger and other problems.  Don't you think it is time to seek help once you start criticising other's attempts to help people?

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 6:50am:

mothra wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 5:30pm: And what do you mean not worth it if one or two lives are saved? Are you saying a person isn't worth 14 million dollars? You've got that right. Did the Australian government that wept crocodile tears over the execution of those two drug importers offer the Indonesian government 14.7 million dollars to save their hides? Of course it didn't. How many Australians went out into the streets in mass demonstrations to protest about young Australians being sent over there to Vietnam to get shot, wounded, killed and mentally f*cked-up over a matter that had absolutely NOTHING to do with defending Australia against invasion? And Iraq And Afghanistan And Syria All 'engagements' that have, and are, costing the lives and limbs of young Australians for no discernible reason other than to play lap-dog to American interests in the region. Have our federal and State governments replaced all those psychiatric hospitals they sold-and-stole for the real estate value back in the early 80's? No they haven't. Our government doesn't give a tinker's cuss about mental health and spending money on support centres. ** 'Charity' is a HUUUUUGE racket in this country which feathers a lot of nests before the people it's intended for see a brass razoo of it. It's a huge money-spinner for the various churches and private agencies that suck the blood out of these donations like leaches, ticks, remora and other parasites. "The massive size of the charity and not-for-profit sector has, for the first time, been revealed in a report by the sector's regulator. The Australian Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission (ACNC) has released the Australia's Charities in 2014 report which showed that the sector was a $103 billion industry that employed almost one-in-10 Australians. The report also revealed that Australia's charities spent $95 billion in 2014. This consisted of $51.8 billion on employee expenses, $4.5 billion on grants and donations and $38.7 billion on other expenses". ... dear O dear O dear ... link     WHERE are the new psychiatric centres? WHERE are the Special Accommodation blocks for the Homeless? WHERE are the REFUGES for those 'at risk' of domestic violence? etc etc ... A $103 BILLION industry per year! - and still the annual suicide rate is in its thousands, and still there's not enough accommodation to take in all of the homeless who live on the streets, and still there are families living in fear of violent husbands with nowhere to turn to ... Incidentally - a staggering 800 people sleep on the streets at night in Darwin due to lack of accommodation for the drunk and the homeless.

Exactly Herbert. I am with you


Quote:

............ and still the annual suicide rate is in its thousands, and still there's not enough accommodation to take in all of the homeless who live on the streets, and still there are families living in fear of violent husbands with nowhere to turn to ................

we could do with 100's of 1000's suiciding.
Look at all the homeless

mariacostel wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

You need help.  You have some very serious anger and other problems.  Don't you think it is time to seek help once you start criticising other's attempts to help people?

It's all about triage and priorities.

The money should go to where it's most needed and where it will benefit the most people.

Value for money.

Triage.

Potential suicides don't need anything other than what is already available to them.

We still have schools without classroom air-conditioning on days that are over 40deg in the summer.

If you want to top yourself - tell your local GP and he'll direct you to FREE services that DON'T require funding to the tune of an insane $14.7 million dollars.

By FAR the greatest beneficiaries of this idiot's mindless donation will be the parasites who live upon the Victimhood Industries.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 8:31am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 7:37am: You need help.  You have some very serious anger and other problems.  Don't you think it is time to seek help once you start criticising other's attempts to help people? It's all about triage and priorities. The money should go to where it's most needed and where it will benefit the most people. Value for money. Triage. Potential suicides don't need anything other than what is already available to them. We still have schools without classroom air-conditioning on days that are over 40deg in the summer. If you want to top yourself - tell your local GP and he'll direct you to FREE services that DON'T require funding to the tune of an insane $14.7 million dollars. By FAR the greatest beneficiaries of this idiot's mindless donation will be the parasites who live upon the Victimhood Industries.

I repeat, you need some REAL help. One day you in fact could end up as one of these 'victims'. You are certainly showing all the early stages of depression which leads to suicidal ideation.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 7:21pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 4:06pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:38pm: Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no' Well, to be honest, it would be far more beneficial to address overpopulation by rounding up all those who have been deluded by organised religion and off them... Population problem solved, and, arguably some of the suicide issue addressed simultaneously, less of the population being molested, terrorised, murdered, brow beaten and robbed via donations... Sure, but these pitiful few are helping.

So too are the terrorists apparently... But of course you have not considered the public service they're providing to our over population problems yet.

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 11:44am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:21pm: Phemanderac wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 4:06pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:38pm: Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no' Well, to be honest, it would be far more beneficial to address overpopulation by rounding up all those who have been deluded by organised religion and off them... Population problem solved, and, arguably some of the suicide issue addressed simultaneously, less of the population being molested, terrorised, murdered, brow beaten and robbed via donations... Sure, but these pitiful few are helping. So too are the terrorists apparently... But of course you have not considered the public service they're providing to our over population problems yet.

those who suicide do it voluntarily, willingly.

victims of death cultists are victims.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

those who suicide do it voluntarily, willingly. .

No. People who suicide are victims of debilitating depression usually. They are very much victims.

mariacostel wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 8:47am:

I repeat, you need some REAL help. One day you in fact could end up as one of these 'victims'. You are certainly showing all the early stages of depression which leads to suicidal ideation.

;D ;D ;D

Thank you for your concern, Maria, but I'm not about to fall on my sword just yet.

My Bucket List still has many pages in it that I hope to bring to reality in the not too distant future.

I think the one Crying for Help might even be yourself ...

I'm a good listener. If you feel you'd like to talk to me here about things that may be troubling you, then by all means do so.

mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 12:02pm: those who suicide do it voluntarily, willingly. . No. People who suicide are victims of debilitating depression usually. They are very much victims.

The tragedy is that they are suffering from Tunnel Vision. It's this Tunnel Vision that funnels them towards the act of committing suicide. Cognitive therapy is the only answer - having them see beyond their immediate concerns.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:13pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 12:04pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 12:02pm: those who suicide do it voluntarily, willingly. . No. People who suicide are victims of debilitating depression usually. They are very much victims. The tragedy is that they are suffering from Tunnel Vision. It's this Tunnel Vision that funnels them towards the act of committing suicide. Cognitive therapy is the only answer - having them see beyond their immediate concerns.

Cognitive therapy is an answer, but far from the only one. In fact it doesn't work at all on some people.

A co-operation between a psychologist and GP is the best bet for anyone suffering clinical depression. That and all of the dozen or so things that we know through research (that cost money, Herbie) to have a beneficial effect, like gentle exercise, exposure and healthy sleeping habits.

It's a myth that depression is all about immediate concerns. It is considerably more far reaching than that and a physical as well as psychological illness.

mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:24pm:

Cognitive therapy is an answer, but far from the only one. In fact it doesn't work at all on some people. A co-operation between a psychologist and GP is the best bet for anyone suffering clinical depression. That and all of the dozen or so things that we know through research (that cost money, Herbie) to have a beneficial effect, like gentle exercise, exposure and healthy sleeping habits. It's a myth that depression is all about immediate concerns. It is considerably more far reaching than that and a physical as well as psychological illness.

The student lecturing the Master.

I'll let it go at that.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:32pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:24pm: Cognitive therapy is an answer, but far from the only one. In fact it doesn't work at all on some people. A co-operation between a psychologist and GP is the best bet for anyone suffering clinical depression. That and all of the dozen or so things that we know through research (that cost money, Herbie) to have a beneficial effect, like gentle exercise, exposure and healthy sleeping habits. It's a myth that depression is all about immediate concerns. It is considerably more far reaching than that and a physical as well as psychological illness. The student lecturing the Master. I'll let it go at that.

Nothing i said was wrong. Maybe CBD worked for you i dunno, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is very, very good and showing promising results.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:44am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:21pm: Phemanderac wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 4:06pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:38pm: Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no' Well, to be honest, it would be far more beneficial to address overpopulation by rounding up all those who have been deluded by organised religion and off them... Population problem solved, and, arguably some of the suicide issue addressed simultaneously, less of the population being molested, terrorised, murdered, brow beaten and robbed via donations... Sure, but these pitiful few are helping. So too are the terrorists apparently... But of course you have not considered the public service they're providing to our over population problems yet. those who suicide do it voluntarily, willingly.

Well apart from the fact that many don't, so what?


Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

victims of death cultists are victims.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm:

Look at the big picture. The globe is overpopulated. Everyone says that. Now someone wants to help that problem and you all say 'no, no'

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm:

Sure, but these pitiful few are helping.

Your own words right back at ya!

mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:37pm:

Nothing i said was wrong. Maybe CBD worked for you i dunno, but it doesn't work for everyone. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is very, very good and showing promising results.

Nothing worked for me after I was admitted by the registrar as suffering from 'Clinical Depression'.

Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there.

I was admitted on four occasions. It gave me a rest from work, but otherwise I didn't see hair-nor-hide of anything even remotely of any benefit to me.

I saw the whole system as a sham, a pretension, and a fraud with those who benefit the most being the doctors themselves.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:47pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:37pm: Nothing i said was wrong. Maybe CBD worked for you i dunno, but it doesn't work for everyone. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is very, very good and showing promising results. Nothing worked for me after I was admitted by the registrar as suffering from 'Clinical Depression'. Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there. I was admitted on four occasions. It gave me a rest from work, but otherwise I didn't see hair-nor-hide of anything even remotely of any benefit to me.

Then why do you make the claim that CBD is the answer?

mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:48pm:

Then why do you make the claim that CBD is the answer?

Did I say that?

The holistic approach is probably better.

One thing that is vital if one is to treat clinical and chronic feelings of depression is to remove the patient from the environment where he or she lives and works.

A few weeks in a ward and then returning patients right back into their original circumstance and environment defeats any gains that were made.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:48pm: Then why do you make the claim that CBD is the answer? Did I say that? The holistic approach is probably better. One thing that is vital if one is to treat clinical and chronic feelings of depression is to remove the patient from the environment where he or she lives and works. A few weeks in a ward and then returning patients right back into their original circumstance and environment defeats any gains that were made.

You said "Cognitive therapy is the only answer ". I assumed you meant CBD. If you didn't i don't know what you mean.

I don't believe uprooting someone from their lives is necessarily the best thing Herbie. A person should stay where their support structures are and making somebody homeless and jobless is only going to cause more problems.

You seem to be operating on the the idea that Depression is purely environmental. It isn't.

mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

You said "Cognitive therapy is the only answer ". I assumed you meant CBD. If you didn't i don't know what you mean. I don't believe uprooting someone from their lives is necessarily the best thing Herbie. A person should stay where their support structures are and making somebody homeless and jobless is only going to cause more problems. You seem to be operating on the the idea that Depression is purely environmental. It isn't.

Give me strength.

Did I say make them jobless and homeless?

What 'support structure? They are in a hospital precisely because there WAS no 'support structure'.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 2:16pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 2:10pm: You said "Cognitive therapy is the only answer ". I assumed you meant CBD. If you didn't i don't know what you mean. I don't believe uprooting someone from their lives is necessarily the best thing Herbie. A person should stay where their support structures are and making somebody homeless and jobless is only going to cause more problems. You seem to be operating on the the idea that Depression is purely environmental. It isn't. Give me strength. Did I say make them jobless and homeless? What 'support structure? They are in a hospital precisely because there WAS no 'support structure'.

Again you make the claim that Depression is environmental. It isn't. If they were employed, that in itself is a support structure. Whether they were coping with it is symptomatic of their disease. A home is a support structure. Knowing where all of your things are is a support structure.

And as to not making them homeless and jobless, how do you suggest they re-accommodate and employ themselves just out of hospital?

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:47pm:

Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there.

Sad, but completely understandable.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 11:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:47pm: Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there. Sad, but completely understandable.

... and while they were committing suicide their doctor was meanwhile giving lectures at the local university in psychiatry ...

Psychiatry is 10% drugs and 90% platitudes. Or is it the other way round?

mothra wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:31pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:26pm: I am a bit shocked at some of the cavalier attitudes to human life expressed in this thread. You'll have to forgive Sprint. He's a good Christian.

He sees the positive in encouraging unhappy people into the next life.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 8:16am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:35pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:47pm: Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there. Sad, but completely understandable. ... and while they were committing suicide ...

... they were forever erasing the sound of your voice from their minds.

As I said: sad, but completely understandable.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 11:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:47pm: Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there. Sad, but completely understandable.

your sick mate. >:( >:( >:( as well as disgusting.

and you dob others in.. ::) ::) ::)

cods wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 8:24am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:35pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:47pm: Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there. Sad, but completely understandable. your sick mate. >:( >:( >:( as well as disgusting. and you dob others in.. ::) ::) ::)

You've already reported a question this morning.

If you feel like reporting a comment stating that suicide is "sad" yet, completely understandable in this circumstance - you go ahead my dear.

Herbie is a Walter Mitty.

There was no group, and there were no girls.

If there were, though, their actions would be completely understandable (albeit, sad).

It's one thing for middle-aged to geriatric people deciding they've had enough - good luck to them - they'd know their own minds a lot better than any psychiatrist or psychologist ever will ... but when it's teenagers and young men and women who are contemplating suicide, then it's a very different matter.

 

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 1:47pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 1:37pm: Nothing i said was wrong. Maybe CBD worked for you i dunno, but it doesn't work for everyone. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is very, very good and showing promising results. Nothing worked for me after I was admitted by the registrar as suffering from 'Clinical Depression'. Two girls in my group committed suicide while I was there. I was admitted on four occasions. It gave me a rest from work, but otherwise I didn't see hair-nor-hide of anything even remotely of any benefit to me. I saw the whole system as a sham, a pretension, and a fraud with those who benefit the most being the doctors themselves.

I entirely agree with that .

put a group of depressed people together, what happens .........  2 suicide.
And that'ld not be the first time. Still the paid doctors and everyone else on the take continue to do it.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

I entirely agree with that . put a group of depressed people together, what happens .........  2 suicide. And that'ld not be the first time. Still the paid doctors and everyone else on the take continue to do it.

I did wondered about where the personal pride was of these psychiatrists. How they could continue in this profession as such limp, ineffectual, effete poseurs.

It's not at all surprising to me that of all the professions it was psychiatrists who had the highest suicide rating. (I don't know which is the highest now). That was some years ago.

I would rather get my hands dirty as a motor mechanic or a Night Soil dunny-can remover than sit in a suit and tie all day pretending I was bringing some benefit to the mentally ill while knowing full well it was an empty pose and I was actually as useless as tits on a bull - but the money was good.

In the vast majority of cases, people who are mentally and emotionally troubled eventually rehabilitate themselves through nothing more than a process of spontaneous readjustment. 

It seems that the most accurate aspect to this thread is the title if applied as a self assessment tool for the OP. One which has subsequently been demonstrated as accurate with almost all subsequent posts from the OP...

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 10:46am:

It seems that the most accurate aspect to this thread is the title if applied as a self assessment tool for the OP. One which has subsequently been demonstrated as accurate with almost all subsequent posts from the OP...

And in all threads.

mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Again you make the claim that Depression is environmental. It isn't. If they were employed, that in itself is a support structure.

Not for everyone, it isn't. Certain kinds of work environment can trigger the sort of debilitating stress that leads to depression. Ask me about it some time.

Returned soldiers have a high suicide rate. This is because of the environment that kept them in a constant state of fear and anxiety. It was a traumatic environment that they were in.


mothra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Whether they were coping with it is symptomatic of their disease. A home is a support structure.

You're firing from the hip again.

A great many people in psychiatric wards and refuges are there precisely because of a bad situation at home.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 9:57am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 9:01am: I entirely agree with that . put a group of depressed people together, what happens .........  2 suicide. And that'ld not be the first time. Still the paid doctors and everyone else on the take continue to do it. I did wondered about where the personal pride was of these psychiatrists. How they could continue in this profession as such limp, ineffectual, effete poseurs. It's not at all surprising to me that of all the professions it was psychiatrists who had the highest suicide rating. (I don't know which is the highest now). That was some years ago. I would rather get my hands dirty as a motor mechanic or a Night Soil dunny-can remover than sit in a suit and tie all day pretending I was bringing some benefit to the mentally ill while knowing full well it was an empty pose and I was actually as useless as tits on a bull - but the money was good. In the vast majority of cases, people who are mentally and emotionally troubled eventually rehabilitate themselves through nothing more than a process of spontaneous readjustment.

That's a great posting herbert.