Do I need to elaborate?

We've seen plenty of movies where the hostage negotiators are called in to talk down hostage takers.

Yes they are.

Listen to these interviews with Phillip Adams (about 1 hour):
https://radio.abc.net.au/search?service_guid=RN-lnl-20151116

Hostage Negotiators didn't work out too well at Martin Place did they?

They don't want to negotiate they want to take as many out as possible then pull the plug on themselves and die a martyr.

Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS?

that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it?

John Smith wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 3:42pm:

Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it?

A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last.

Maqqa wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 2:19pm:

Do I need to elaborate? We've seen plenty of movies where the hostage negotiators are called in to talk down hostage takers.

If they have set up a caliphate then I think you have your answer. The declaration of war is when the talking stops and only resumes when peace is being sued for!

mariacostel wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 5:21pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last.

To not try negotiating is ludicrous: to say it was a little late because of the Martin Place saga is not rational as you would have to extend that argument to every tragedy having been preventable.

Now their colours have been shown, game on!

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 5:37pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. To not try negotiating is ludicrous: to say it was a little late because of the Martin Place saga is not rational as you would have to extend that argument to every tragedy having been preventable. Now their colours have been shown, game on!

I think that your brain is being held hostage by methamphetamine, would you like us to throw in a few stun grenades?   

John Smith wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 3:42pm:

Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it?

They did it on the back of the Paris attacks: hostage negotiators proved ineffective in non-western countries before this event... but NOW their obsolescence has been made clear(hence the moral law can be safely assumed) in a Western Country that holds freedom of religion as a corner stone!

Freedom of religion is what is seen as the line that has been ultimately crossed and is, as such, being defended!

innocentbystander. wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:37pm: mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. To not try negotiating is ludicrous: to say it was a little late because of the Martin Place saga is not rational as you would have to extend that argument to every tragedy having been preventable. Now their colours have been shown, game on! I think that your brain is being held hostage by methamphetamine, would you like us to throw in a few stun grenades?

meth is boring:  ;)

innocentbystander. wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 5:40pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:37pm: mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. To not try negotiating is ludicrous: to say it was a little late because of the Martin Place saga is not rational as you would have to extend that argument to every tragedy having been preventable. Now their colours have been shown, game on! I think that your brain is being held hostage by methamphetamine, would you like us to throw in a few stun grenades?

Would we see any difference?

Yes ..... a waste of time.

Negotiators should be trained not to lose their heads.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 5:21pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last.

Don't agree generally ... hostage takers often do so on a whim,  they panic and grab someone hostage, and they are more often than not, talked out peacefully

Suicide bombers however are a different kettle of fish. There is no talking, they just want to kill as many as possible.

John Smith wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 8:23pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. Don't agree generally ... hostage takers often do so on a whim,  they panic and grab someone hostage, and they are more often than not, talked out peacefully Suicide bombers however are a different kettle of fish. There is no talking, they just want to kill as many as possible.

Not these hostage takers it's not on a whim ... it's planned .......

and their intent is the same as suicide bombers.

John Smith wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 8:23pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. Don't agree generally ... hostage takers often do so on a whim,  they panic and grab someone hostage, and they are more often than not, talked out peacefully Suicide bombers however are a different kettle of fish. There is no talking, they just want to kill as many as possible.

And if potential hostage takes know that a bullet to the head is coming quick, they will end it very quickly.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 7:49am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 8:23pm: mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. Don't agree generally ... hostage takers often do so on a whim,  they panic and grab someone hostage, and they are more often than not, talked out peacefully Suicide bombers however are a different kettle of fish. There is no talking, they just want to kill as many as possible. And if potential hostage takes know that a bullet to the head is coming quick, they will end it very quickly.

it they were thinking rationally, they wouldn't have taken a hostage in the first place now would they! :D :D :D

Gnads wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:03am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 8:23pm: mariacostel wrote on Nov 21st, 2015 at 5:21pm: John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:42pm: Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS? that's the whole reasoning behind NSW police's decision to change it's policy to shoot first, ask questions later ... isn't it? A little late, but at least they have finally worked it out. If you are armed and holding hostages then your life is forfeit. They might try to negotiate but after 20 mins if nothing is happening, the next sound you hear will be your last. Don't agree generally ... hostage takers often do so on a whim,  they panic and grab someone hostage, and they are more often than not, talked out peacefully Suicide bombers however are a different kettle of fish. There is no talking, they just want to kill as many as possible. Not these hostage takers it's not on a whim ... it's planned ....... and their intent is the same as suicide bombers.

Who is 'these'?

Most cases you hear on the news are a father who snaps and holds his kids hostage, or a husband who holds his wife hostage etc ... there are very few planned hostage takers in Australia that I can recall. When was the last one before Monis?

Quote:

Are hostage negotiators obsolete against ISIS?

Perhaps you should stick to the point in question.

Was Australia specified?

The recent Mali incident puts paid to your references to Australian domestic violence scenarios which are totally irrelevant to ISIS .....

Nick Berg & other hostages taken in Syria & surrounds of the ME .... were all hostages that were taken & killed deliberately.

So does that explain who "these" hostage takers are?

It should  ::)

I doubt you could negotiate with these people.  Obama is merely playing for time while building up an international response, while appearing to hold out the olive branch, thus taking the high moral ground from killers of innocents, and encouraging the ROTCW (Rest Of The Civilised World) to join hands with him.

Once that is achieved, a massive strike would demolish the Islamic State on the ground, but would still leave the adherents, who would then need to be hunted down.  Casualties will be incurred, both civilian and military, but I see little to no choice.  To do otherwise is to accept civilian casualties without retaliation and without  seeking to prevent the majority of them by striking down the viper.

The view that they are only killing their own people in the IS homeland, and that is acceptable, is repugnant to any civilised person.

A massive strike is going on now and probably killing many innocent people going about their miserable lives. Ground war is the only answer to the Syria/Iraq IS situation but that leaves thousands round the world who will carry on.

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:37am:

A massive strike is going on now and probably killing many innocent people going about their miserable lives. Ground war is the only answer to the Syria/Iraq IS situation but that leaves thousands round the world who will carry on.

Air strikes are a necessary precursor to reduce Allied casualties.  Some would argue that those who are left there could have fled and therefore are at least warm towards ISIL.  The moment massive forces are assembled, the IS fighters will disperse and then become hard to track down.  I'm sure there is a strategic plan in place for bombings..........

Gnads wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:14am:

Perhaps you should stick to the point in question. Was Australia specified?

Given that the conversation was following on from a comment about NSW police, Yes Australia was specified.