Black jobs': Rampant exploitation of foreign workers in Australia revealed

Date
    October 1, 2015
Canberra Times



Sunny Liu is the embodiment of one of Australia's biggest problems. The young Chinese student is one of hundreds of thousands of temporary foreign workers illegally exploited and underpaid in what has become a widespread "black economy" for jobs.   :(

When Michael Smith took over on Wednesday as the new chairman of convenience store chain 7-Eleven, he said the underpayments in his humiliated company were just the tip of the iceberg, part of a "very widespread problem".
Sunny Liu was paid as little as $8 per hour



Now for the first time, a Fairfax Media investigation can outline the extent of it – hundreds of thousands of workers across the economy, in food courts, cafes, factories, building sites, farms, hairdressers and retail – being exploited on low wages and believing they have no power to ask for their rights.   :o


The comprehensive study in conjunction with Monash University* has revealed 80 per cent of foreign language advertisements offering wages below legal rates. Many of them are openly advertised as "black jobs".

Ms Liu was paid $8 an hour to work at a restaurant in suburban Melbourne and $12 an hour at another job in the food court at Southland shopping centre.   :(

"I feel in the workforce I am [treated] somehow inferior to other local Australians," said Ms Liu, a student at Monash University, who came to Australia from China last year.

"Even though I do have the legal student visa, I am entitled to some working rights. I was not treated as if I have those working rights."

Little research or official data exists on how many temporary foreign workers and students are employed in Australia, let alone how many are being illegally underpaid, but the Fairfax investigation surveyed Mandarin-language websites, where it was common for jobs to be openly advertised at $10 to $13 an hour, significantly below Australia's legal minimum wage of $17.29 an hour.

The study of 1071 job advertisements aimed at temporary foreign workers, largely from China, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Taiwan, show the vast majority offer work either below the minimum wage or the award.   :(

Ms Liu found her work at the restaurant through website yeeyi.com, where all the job advertisements are in Mandarin.

She knew she was being underpaid – her wage after two weeks was lifted from $8 to $10 an hour – but feared losing her job if she spoke out.

"I didn't dare to speak up at the time as I had just got to Australia, as I didn't know what the situation was with employers," she said.

Some of the Chinese language advertisements openly admit they are offering "black" work which, signifies it is an illegal job.

Illegal underpayment is not confined to particular industries, and is evident across a wide range of low skilled or semi-skilled jobs.   :(

If the results were replicated across the variety of Australian visas used by students and temporary foreign workers, it's likely many hundreds of thousands of people are being illegally underpaid at any one time.

At the extreme end, the investigation uncovered workers paid as little as $4 an hour, and shady networks of middle-men who demand extra payments from prospective foreign job seekers to secure work.

Fairfax Media has spoken to one job-seeker, who does not want to be identified, but who said he received death threats from a middle-man.   :o

The labour hire middle-men often take a cut from three sources: the workers themselves, employers who hire the workers, and from owners of cheap hotels who house them.

In Mildura, one middle-man who hired out workers to local farmers also owned a caravan park, where he housed four workers per tiny room.

The National Union of Workers (NUW) has called for urgent action on the labour hire middle-men at the centre of many of the employment scams.

"If you sell alcohol in Victoria you need a licence , if you want to trade people you need nothing," said Tim Kennedy, the union's national secretary.

"Labour hire is completely unregulated, all you need is a phone and a spreadsheet to be a labour hire provider."

At the end of last year, there were more than 750,000 foreigners in Australia with temporary work rights, mostly on student, working holiday and 457 visas. Another 470,000 people were here on visitor visas, largely for tourism.

The number of temporary visa holders has more than doubled since 2000 and has risen sharply from negligible levels in the mid 1990s.

This is a starkly different labour market from that which greeted the surge of migrant workers after World War II. Back then, newcomers typically had permanent residency and far greater legal and work rights than today's foreign workers on visas.

In the modern era, some visas require the worker to retain the support of the employer to stay in Australia and also include, in the cases of student visas, restrictions on hours a week worked.

The abuses were graphically highlighted by the recent Fairfax Media/ABC investigation into rorts at the 7/Eleven chain as well as an earlier ABC 4 Corners program that focused on the agriculture sector.
7 Eleven multimedia

On taking over the company, Mr Smith said in a candid interview that he believed 7-Eleven was the tip of the iceberg.   :(

"We have a problem in this country ... This has opened my eyes, I think we're at the beginning of the revelation of something that is a very wide-spread problem. I think in this country we will find very large numbers of young and foreign workers who are not paid properly."

The latest investigation, published today, indicates he is right, and that sectors of the Australian economy are increasingly reliant on illegal underpayment.

One Mandarin-speaking middle-man from Malaysia, who recruits farm workers, openly admitted the work was "black" labour, which in the Chinese community means illegal.

When asked if he minded other job-seekers being told this, he said: "It is no problem to admit it. I don't want the job seekers [to] misunderstand the position."

Other advertised jobs demand workers pay $3.30 an hour from their wages, or several hundred dollars in up-front payments.   :(

In some cases workers accused the advertisers and middlemen of promoting scams and fake jobs to steal from them.

Poor English skills, a lack of local knowledge, and a fear that speaking out would result in them being forced out of Australia, contributed to the problem, foreign workers say.

Labor elder statesman, and its former national president, Greg Sword, said employers needed to be made responsible for the underpayment of workers through the use of middle-men.

"There also needs to be legislative change so that employers cannot avoid their responsibilities … even though the middle-man may be paying workers $10 an hour, if it's exposed, the employer should be held responsible."

The results of the Fairfax investigation showing 80 per cent of jobs were illegally under-paid are likely conservative.

The investigation was based largely on an analysis of websites http://www.backpackers.com.tw/ , yeeyi.com and some foreign language Facebook pages. Most of the jobs appeared temporary or casual and did not include penalties and loadings.   :(

It did not count jobs where no pay rates were disclosed. If such jobs jobs were included in the results it is likely the level of underpayment would be even higher.

Ms Liu, a journalism student who helped with the Fairfax investigation, said most of her friends from Taiwan and China were paid illegally, at rates below the legal minimum wage.

Some of Ms Liu's friends earn as little as $6 an hour working at Chadstone Shopping Centre. "It was quite a contrast when I went from English teacher in China to a restaurant waitress in Australia and the waitress job was paid much lower than the English speaking job."

Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about.

its similar to the Uber arguement.

Uber drivers charge about 1/3 what taxi drivers charge.
They are happy with this.
Its the taxi drivers who see them as a threat who seem most "hot under the collar'

if you are from india or the phillipines, then $10 an hour is an absolute fortune.
90 %  of the population of rural india or of manila would weep tears of joy if you told them they could come to our great nation and earn , what would be probably 20 or 30 times what they earn at the moment.

the left, the unions, want to sentence these people to live in abject poverty and dress it up as "greedy employers" being so "mean and selfish"

But if we scratch beneath the surface, its really "greedy unions and australian workers" who dont want to share the wealth of our great nation.

its a very odd rationalisation of leftard group think.

I'd let anyone come to australia to work and contribute for whatever rate they were happy with.
If the aussie worker cant compete, he can start learning from the work ethic, value his physical health, take up jogging and pilates, study in his lunch hour to improve himself and use this as motivation to get better.


Dont ask that the labor market was easier, ask that you were better

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:20am:

Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about. its similar to the Uber arguement. Uber drivers charge about 1/3 what taxi drivers charge. They are happy with this. Its the taxi drivers who see them as a threat who seem most "hot under the collar' if you are from india or the phillipines, then $10 an hour is an absolute fortune. 90 %  of the population of rural india or of manila would weep tears of joy if you told them they could come to our great nation and earn , what would be probably 20 or 30 times what they earn at the moment. the left, the unions, want to sentence these people to live in abject poverty and dress it up as "greedy employers" being so "mean and selfish" But if we scratch beneath the surface, its really "greedy unions and australian workers" who dont want to share the wealth of our great nation. its a very odd rationalisation of leftard group think. I'd let anyone come to australia to work and contribute for whatever rate they were happy with. If the aussie worker cant compete, he can start learning from the work ethic, value his physical health, take up jogging and pilates, study in his lunch hour to improve himself and use this as motivation to get better. Dont ask that the labor market was easier, ask that you were better

Possibly the biggest pile of poo that has ever been posted in this forum.

(apart from your last post)

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:23am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:20am: Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about. its similar to the Uber arguement. Uber drivers charge about 1/3 what taxi drivers charge. They are happy with this. Its the taxi drivers who see them as a threat who seem most "hot under the collar' if you are from india or the phillipines, then $10 an hour is an absolute fortune. 90 %  of the population of rural india or of manila would weep tears of joy if you told them they could come to our great nation and earn , what would be probably 20 or 30 times what they earn at the moment. the left, the unions, want to sentence these people to live in abject poverty and dress it up as "greedy employers" being so "mean and selfish" But if we scratch beneath the surface, its really "greedy unions and australian workers" who dont want to share the wealth of our great nation. its a very odd rationalisation of leftard group think. I'd let anyone come to australia to work and contribute for whatever rate they were happy with. If the aussie worker cant compete, he can start learning from the work ethic, value his physical health, take up jogging and pilates, study in his lunch hour to improve himself and use this as motivation to get better. Dont ask that the labor market was easier, ask that you were better Possibly the biggest pile of poo that has ever been posted in this forum. (apart from your last post)

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say those who see foreign workers as competition are those who yell most loudly about this.
$10 an hour would still be much more then an australian company would pay a call center worker in india or the phillipines, i think i would be right in saying that.

so telstra and optus and the big banks and insurance companies recognise that the labor market has been globalised.

are they wrong to recognise this globalised framework?
if they agreed to bring those workers to australia and pay them double, (from $5 to $10), would not this keep the money in australia, keep the supporting infrastructure in australia and also make our foreign countries more closely linked.
would not they bring out their families and friends for holidays?
as they grow in terms of a middle class would not they send their kids to our unis for education, attend our private hospitals for medical care.

is not trade what makes us rich?
did not keating and hawke recognise this?

We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living.

We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker.

This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:09am:

We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling.

Just his usual nonsense.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:09am:

We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling.

grappler, i will give you a real time example.

there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle).
the cost of spraying it is not economically viable.
it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years.
the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product.
hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable.
the infestation therefore continues to spread.

if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create

1  200,000 acres of valuable land
2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education
3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place.

i honestly cant see a loser in this situation.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:20am:

if you are from india or the phillipines, then $10 an hour is an absolute fortune. 90 %  of the population of rural india or of manila would weep tears of joy if you told them they could come to our great nation and earn , what would be probably 20 or 30 times what they earn at the moment.

what  load of rubbish .... we also pay 20 or 30 times more then they do for our goods and services :D :D :D

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:29am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:20am: if you are from india or the phillipines, then $10 an hour is an absolute fortune. 90 %  of the population of rural india or of manila would weep tears of joy if you told them they could come to our great nation and earn , what would be probably 20 or 30 times what they earn at the moment. what  load of rubbish .... we also pay 20 or 30 times more then they do for our goods and services :D :D :D

In the presence of the free trade agreements, there is no reason why goods would be 20 to 30 times dearer.

Thoughts ?? ;)

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:28am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation.

Apart from the workers on below minimum wage.

Plus there appears to be prospective biological control methods

Now for the first time, a Fairfax Media investigation can outline the extent of it – hundreds of thousands of workers across the economy, in food courts, cafes, factories, building sites, farms, hairdressers and retail – being exploited on low wages and believing they have no power to ask for their rights.   :o   >:(   

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:20am:

Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about.

Hundreds of thousands of workers being illegally underpaid and exploited and you can't see the problem?

OPEN YOUR EYES or STOP TROLLING!!

If there's an issue that should be investigated by a Royal Commission, it's this. If the problem is as widespread as claimed, a Royal Commission must be initiated as soon as possible.

We urgently need reforms to stamp out these practices. Make employers liable for the conditions of all staff they employ, regardless of whether they are employed directly by the employer or through a third party. Mandatory licensing for labour hire companies. Mandatory registration of all employers employing foreign labour. Stiff criminal penalties for anyone found exploiting foreign workers of up to ten times the amount involved with no limit, jail terms and seizing of assets as proceeds of crime.

This is corruption on a wide scale. To stamp out corruption, we need tough action. This is no exception.

Bam wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:27am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:20am: Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about. Hundreds of thousands of workers being illegally underpaid and exploited and you can't see the problem? OPEN YOUR EYES or STOP TROLLING!!

and yet , i will be willing to bet that you have no trouble with having a smart phone , made in a factory where the workers are paid $2 an hour.
Now if i ask you to pay $3000 for it so that these workers wont be underpaid, what would be your response  ;)

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:28am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation.

Oh, I can certainly see one.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:47am:

Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:27am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:20am: Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about. Hundreds of thousands of workers being illegally underpaid and exploited and you can't see the problem? OPEN YOUR EYES or STOP TROLLING!! and yet , i will be willing to bet that you have no trouble with having a smart phone , made in a factory where the workers are paid $2 an hour. Now if i ask you to pay $3000 for it so that these workers wont be underpaid, what would be your response  ;)

This is offtopic. The topic of the thread is criminal exploitation of workers in Australia.

And that hypothetical $2 an hour is still more than the pay rate IN AUSTRALIA that you have championed for other people in the past.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one.

please explain ?

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:03am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:29am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:20am: if you are from india or the phillipines, then $10 an hour is an absolute fortune. 90 %  of the population of rural india or of manila would weep tears of joy if you told them they could come to our great nation and earn , what would be probably 20 or 30 times what they earn at the moment. what  load of rubbish .... we also pay 20 or 30 times more then they do for our goods and services :D :D :D In the presence of the free trade agreements, there is no reason why goods would be 20 to 30 times dearer. Thoughts ?? ;)

ahh ... I see the problem now

you live in a theoretical world, I on the other hand deal with reality

there is no reason for a ipad made in China to cost us double what it costs in the USA either, and yet it does. :D :D :D

wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:14am:

Now for the first time, a Fairfax Media investigation can outline the extent of it – hundreds of thousands of workers across the economy, in food courts, cafes, factories, building sites, farms, hairdressers and retail – being exploited on low wages and believing they have no power to ask for their rights.   :o   >:(

with the unions powers being wilted away, it was bound to happen

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:47am:

Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:27am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:20am: Crook, i cant see what you are getting all hot under the collar about. Hundreds of thousands of workers being illegally underpaid and exploited and you can't see the problem? OPEN YOUR EYES or STOP TROLLING!! and yet , i will be willing to bet that you have no trouble with having a smart phone , made in a factory where the workers are paid $2 an hour. Now if i ask you to pay $3000 for it so that these workers wont be underpaid, what would be your response  ;)

most people wouldn't buy the smart phone. and the Chinese would be unemployed instead of the Australians. There would be less reason for Australian companies to go to China meaning they would stay here and Australia would start producing again

all in all a win/ win situation for Australia and Australians ... not so good for China

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 11:21am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:49am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one. please explain ?

You are the loser.

Your posts in this thread are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 11:46am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:21am: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:49am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one. please explain ? You are the loser. Your posts in this thread are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.

 

posted on your iphone greg?
available to you cheaply because you were only willing to pay the exploited workers in the chinese manufacturing hell hole , working 16 hour shifts, $2 an hour when i'm offering them 10.

How pitiful  ;)

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 11:53am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:46am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:21am: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:49am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one. please explain ? You are the loser. Your posts in this thread are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.   posted on your iphone greg? available to you cheaply because you were only willing to pay the exploited workers in the chinese manufacturing hell hole , working 16 hour shifts, $2 an hour when i'm offering them 10. How pitiful  ;)

Now we know why you're not keen to discuss the topic. You are one of these corrupt individuals who willingly flout the law by underpaying workers. You belong in jail.

Bam wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 12:06pm:

Now we know why you're not keen to discuss the topic. You are one of these corrupt individuals who willingly flout the law by underpaying workers.

You might be right.

He's probably got backpackers cleaning out the stables for $5 an hour.

Keep an eye out for the FWC, aqua.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 11:53am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:46am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:21am: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:49am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one. please explain ? You are the loser. Your posts in this thread are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.   posted on your iphone greg? available to you cheaply because you were only willing to pay the exploited workers in the chinese manufacturing hell hole , working 16 hour shifts, $2 an hour when i'm offering them 10. How pitiful  ;)

what a lot of shite, you dont know nothing about Chinese workers.

scope wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 1:32pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:53am: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:46am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:21am: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:49am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one. please explain ? You are the loser. Your posts in this thread are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.   posted on your iphone greg? available to you cheaply because you were only willing to pay the exploited workers in the chinese manufacturing hell hole , working 16 hour shifts, $2 an hour when i'm offering them 10. How pitiful  ;) what a lot of shite, you dont know nothing about Chinese workers.

aqua knows about horses and ...   :-/

I'll get back to you on that.

Scoot knows about horse poop, from books & TV.

wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:02am:

Black jobs': Rampant exploitation of foreign workers in Australia revealed

If you can't exploit foreigners, who CAN you exploit?  And if you can't exploit them - what's the point of them???  That's the whole point of letting them in. Why else would you?

Exploitation Of Foreign Workes In Australia

People just don't get the point, there is no other reason that they are ever brought into the country.

To enable exploitation is the only reason we have things like 457 visa's etc.

Importing foreign workers is not necessary it is only a tool to enable the exploitation of these workers and to undermine the Australian industrial and wage system.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 11:46am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 11:21am: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 10:49am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:28am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 9:09am: We're not in Asia..... and we don't have their standards and values or their wage rates and costs of living. We are all aware of the difference in pay rates - that doesn't justify ripping off a worker. This time you've really lost my respect, Aquascoot.  Your recent posts have been way off the planet, but this?  Now you've descended into absolute trolling. grappler, i will give you a real time example. there are 200,000 acres of land near the bega valley over run by fireweed (toxic to cattle). the cost of spraying it is not economically viable. it must all be hand pulled and the follow up process will mean this needs to be done for probably 3 to 4 years. the herbicide spray hot shot is 150dollars a litre and contaminates milk product. hand pulling paid at $25 an hour is also not currently economically viable. the infestation therefore continues to spread. if we allowed foreign workers to pull this stuff at $10 an hour we create 1  200,000 acres of valuable land 2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education 3  we do not cost one single job to any australian as no australian would do this for $10 an hour and so the jobs were never going to be created in the first place. i honestly cant see a loser in this situation. Oh, I can certainly see one. please explain ? You are the loser. Your posts in this thread are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.

2  we create very very delighted indian workers who can now send money home and put their kids through a better education


Having a worker who can not pay for his accommodation, food and pay his bills does not allow anything to be sent home. An obvious looser who has come to work in Australia and got nothing out of the deal.

Soren wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 11:56pm:

wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 7:02am: Black jobs': Rampant exploitation of foreign workers in Australia revealed If you can't exploit foreigners, who CAN you exploit?  And if you can't exploit them - what's the point of them???  That's the whole point of letting them in. Why else would you?

I seem to have said basically the same thing while this post was waiting in the hidden queue.